Date   

Re: anti virus suggestion?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well I don't think anything is going to somebody who does not take care online with obvious precautions like not clicking links in emails from fake addresses and spam etc and indeed dodgy content like free music downloads here type of thing, where the great ransomware hacked html code resides for the unwary and greedy.

If your friend can be got to a point where its not going to actually ask for malware then Microsofts msse is very good and simple.Avg can work well but it seems to slow things up and to my mind keeps plonking warnings up and some are not very easy to interact with. A typical case of a program written by a committee!


The biggest dangers as I'm sure you know are trojans and ransom ware just now, the rest can be found with stand alone scanners like malwarbytes etc every few weeks, but if you keep any financial info on your computer or need it to survive you most certainly do not want trojans or ransomware, and most certainly don't pay them as few get their machines decrypted as they have no incentive once they have your money in their account.
Shrug and reformat.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Kingett" <kingettr@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 11:13 AM
Subject: [nvda] anti virus suggestion?


so my friend is a trojan horse manet and an adware magnet. when I could see some I had avast on her computer. she is very low tech so had no idea about changing the avast settings and making boot time scans, ETC, so now that I am totally blind is there an antivirus program anyone could suggest that is fully accessible with NVDA? she also says she will not upgrade to windows 10 because change bad! :) any suggestions for windows 7?


Re: changing the function key

David <trailerdavid@...>
 

Not really so true.


If my FN-key is pressed, and I hit letters J, K and L, they act as Numpad 1, 2 and 3 - and so forth. That means, the FN-key taped, you could not even write a normal text. Turning off the Numlock, which would be something like FN-F8, things would go even more crazy, as now the letters would work as Object-operators in NVDA.


In very short terms, taping the FN-key, is the least effecient way of all. Sorry.




On 12/15/2016 11:02 PM, Gene wrote:
As I understand it, the problem you describe won't occur.  When the fn key is down, it is equivalent to it being up under traditional operation.  I haven't heard that the effect of this change is limited to specific keys.  Indeed, I heard someone say, on another list, that they couldn't use alt f4 under this change because f4 was being treated as a function key combination.  As far as restart is concerned, I have no idea if there will be any effect. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] changing the function key

Also the problem with taping the key down, is that for any other keys that use Fn+key combinations, they will always act as if the key was down.  it also might not register properly when the machine restarts.  It sounds like it would be worth getting sighted help to get into the bios and change this setting once and for all.  At least, once it's done you can just use the PC normally again.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Robert,

          I know of no way to change this on HP hardware without going into either UEFI or BIOS (depending on the age of the machine).  This feature is known as Action Keys.  My laptop had this enabled and I promptly disabled via the BIOS settings under UEFI.  Under UEFI it's in the BIOS settings, System Configuration settings and is enabled if you have to hit Fn in order for the function key to act like a function key, not perform the function shown on its icon.

          There are some brands that have a way to do this via the user interface.  I can't find any for HP.  Here's a link to their support page giving details on how to turn it off via BIOS for machines from the straight BIOS era.  It's virtually identical under UEFI once you know where to look, which I mentioned above.
--
Brian

 Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises.

         ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902

    





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Training Material Developer
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Re: changing the function key

Rui Fontes
 

The only company I know allowing to change some BIOS settings bia software is Toshiba...
There are more?

Rui


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: David
Data: 16 de dezembro de 2016 11:23
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] changing the function key

In case this is of any comfort to you, smile, you are not the only one
to be frustrated about the scenario you experience.


Several months ago, I ended up with a laptop exhibiting the same kind of
issue. That too, was an HP.


I have searched the net, have asked around, and it is all in vain. Only
way I am aware of, is to go into BIOS - and when you have no eyes to
assist you, learn to deal with the new key-layout. Sorry, but even
sighted people complain about the inconveniences caused. And many of
them are either not familiar with BIOS modification, or are afraid to
even consider trying.


Until the day the manufacturers would let us do the swapping of
key-layouts through some kind of accessible software, I am afraid the
shortest answer to your query has already been given, it is a loud and
clear NO. From what I learn, seemingly certain manufacturers have
provided pieces of software to do the swap, but only for their own brand
and models.


OK, one last resort, which I have not tried, but which should work. You
could get hold of a key-remapper. That is, a tiny software that will let
you remap any key, or combination, on your keyboard. You then would have
to remap the FN-combos to work as media-keys, and the normal keys to
work as normal. With some scripting insight, you might be able to build
a small key-remapper yourself. AutoHotkey, script development tool,
might be one such lane to follow. Never worked under python, but if it
can be done there, may be some kind of an idea for an
NVDA addon.


My personal solution, might not be the most adviceable for a normal
budget, but I ended up parking the whole computer, and getting hold of
something that works the good old way.


OK, should I leave you one extra advice? Do you have any computer shop
nearby? If so, try bring your laptop there, and explain to them what you
cannot do due to being blind. Perhaps you even could find the
instructions on how to remedy the situation, on the net, and have them
printed out. Then, ask the personel in the store,if they could please
give you a hand, in changing that one setting in the BIOS. IF they are
anything familiar with computers, it should be possible for them to do
it in less than a minute. Smile nicely, and see if they could do it for you.


It is my understanding, that the modern BIOS setup, is much like most
graphical, mouse-operated screens. So if you have any computer person in
amongst your friends, and you look up the instructions on how to do the
job, even that might be a solution. From what I can read, it is only one
simple setting that needs be changed.


Sorry, I could not be more uplifting on the matter.

On 12/15/2016 8:04 PM, Robert Kingett wrote:
Hi all, I had a quick question. On my HP laptop the function keys are
defaulted to their media options, so if I want to hit shift F10, I
have to hit FN shift F10. Is there anyway I can change this without
going into the BIOS? I have no sighted person here to assist me with
the BIOS so is there a work around?



.


Re: changing the function key

David <trailerdavid@...>
 

In case this is of any comfort to you, smile, you are not the only one
to be frustrated about the scenario you experience.


Several months ago, I ended up with a laptop exhibiting the same kind of
issue. That too, was an HP.


I have searched the net, have asked around, and it is all in vain. Only
way I am aware of, is to go into BIOS - and when you have no eyes to
assist you, learn to deal with the new key-layout. Sorry, but even
sighted people complain about the inconveniences caused. And many of
them are either not familiar with BIOS modification, or are afraid to
even consider trying.


Until the day the manufacturers would let us do the swapping of
key-layouts through some kind of accessible software, I am afraid the
shortest answer to your query has already been given, it is a loud and
clear NO. From what I learn, seemingly certain manufacturers have
provided pieces of software to do the swap, but only for their own brand
and models.


OK, one last resort, which I have not tried, but which should work. You
could get hold of a key-remapper. That is, a tiny software that will let
you remap any key, or combination, on your keyboard. You then would have
to remap the FN-combos to work as media-keys, and the normal keys to
work as normal. With some scripting insight, you might be able to build
a small key-remapper yourself. AutoHotkey, script development tool,
might be one such lane to follow. Never worked under python, but if it
can be done there, may be some kind of an idea for an
NVDA addon.


My personal solution, might not be the most adviceable for a normal
budget, but I ended up parking the whole computer, and getting hold of
something that works the good old way.


OK, should I leave you one extra advice? Do you have any computer shop
nearby? If so, try bring your laptop there, and explain to them what you
cannot do due to being blind. Perhaps you even could find the
instructions on how to remedy the situation, on the net, and have them
printed out. Then, ask the personel in the store,if they could please
give you a hand, in changing that one setting in the BIOS. IF they are
anything familiar with computers, it should be possible for them to do
it in less than a minute. Smile nicely, and see if they could do it for you.


It is my understanding, that the modern BIOS setup, is much like most
graphical, mouse-operated screens. So if you have any computer person in
amongst your friends, and you look up the instructions on how to do the
job, even that might be a solution. From what I can read, it is only one
simple setting that needs be changed.


Sorry, I could not be more uplifting on the matter.

On 12/15/2016 8:04 PM, Robert Kingett wrote:
Hi all, I had a quick question. On my HP laptop the function keys are
defaulted to their media options, so if I want to hit shift F10, I
have to hit FN shift F10. Is there anyway I can change this without
going into the BIOS? I have no sighted person here to assist me with
the BIOS so is there a work around?



.


Re: Donating During Update

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes this has been a bit odd for some time. Somebody told me that you can sort it a bit by changing the way the page is shown to you in one of the settings, but I forgot which one now.
You should be ok if you are careful as you cannot spend anything until the end in any case.
I'll be doing mine when I get a quiet period, indeed I was never asked at update time so I'll need to do it via the menu in any case.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "David Griffith" <daj.griffith@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 8:24 AM
Subject: [nvda] Donating During Update


I wonder if the donation page during update could be looked at an simplified.

On Firefox the donation options are not read as discrete options unless you use control keys with arrow keys, and to my deaf ears at leazst it is confusing as all the suggested amounts of donations are initially read out as a single strihng which is a little overwhelming and scary as some of the suggested amounts are pretty considerable.
To my ears at least the check box for the amount is not clear – does it relate to the amount before or after the amount etc.
It is a little anxiety making and does not feel quite safe and the worry is that you are to donate an amount you cannot afford.
More importantly on a couple of occasion this has meant I have checked the wrong amount when trying to donate and again on my system once a check box is check is seems impossible to uncheck it. Pressing space or enter does not seem possible to amend this once it has been entered.

This has twice meant that I have pulled out of the donation page when I genuinely wanted to donate.

The behaviour of the page which would feel safe to me would be to cursor down and hear each donation option as a separate option with a clear safe option to check or uncheck the amount you are committing, rather than only being able to review by hearing whole sections of the page read out.
My inability to complete this page is probably down to my own ineptitude and user error but I would have thought that a donation page at least should be ultra straightforward and easy to complete.
Just a suggestions.

David Griffith

Sent from Mail for Windows 10


anti virus suggestion?

 

so my friend is a trojan horse manet and an adware magnet. when I could see some I had avast on her computer. she is very low tech so had no idea about changing the avast settings and making boot time scans, ETC, so now that I am totally blind is there an antivirus program anyone could suggest that is fully accessible with NVDA? she also says she will not upgrade to windows 10 because change bad! :) any suggestions for windows 7?


Re: NVDA 2016.4 released #nvdasr

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

No indeed and I tend to get mine not from the actual rc produced for the masses but from the snapshots page.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kwork" <istherelife@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 3:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2016.4 released #nvdasr


and you could have been using it for a few weeks now as the rc (release candidate) is always the nearly final version, and not much, if anything changes between the rc and the final. No need to be afraid of rc versions. They don't bite.
Travis
----- Original Message -----
From: Supanut Leepaisomboon
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2016.4 released #nvdasr


Finally! I've been waiting for months for this release!


Re: NVDA 2016.4 released #nvdasr

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well you could have use the Master branch, its been mostly stable for a while now.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Supanut Leepaisomboon" <supanut2000@outlook.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 2:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2016.4 released #nvdasr


Finally! I've been waiting for months for this release!


Re: Reinstalling Windows 10

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes but do check the hardware like the drive and connections before you spend loads of time fixing it.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Lawlor" <douglawlor@me.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 2:07 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reinstalling Windows 10



I've got someone to help me fix it. It is just so frustrating when these things happen and you are down for a day until you can get someone to help you.

Doug


Douglas Lawlor
Email: douglawlor@me.com


On Dec 15, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

I don't know enough to advise you about using an accessible reinstallation environment. There are installation environments developed evidently by some blind users that allow you to run enough of Windows from an external source to then reinstall Windows. they also load a screen-reader from their files, as far as I know, NVDA. But I don't know enough about this to tell you more. No one has said anything about this in the discussion. perhaps they will now.

but you will have to be able to boot from whatever medium you are using, such as a thumb drive and I have no idea what sources the computer currently looks at when booting.

gene
----- Originaal Message -----
From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 7:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reinstalling Windows 10

Well you can try a reset, to be honest though it may be time to just
take your box to a shop and ask them to reformat it for you.
I still am a firm believer that a box should run the system it was
designed for for best performance.
So if you ran xp on it it should run that or 7 well you get the picture.
I'd actually be wandering if you either have a virus or something or
simply that your hardwre has issues and it may do.


On 16/12/2016 7:33 a.m., Douglas Lawlor wrote:
Hello Brian,
I would do this if I could, but I cannot use the system at all in it's current state. It is taking minutes for NVDA to respond to a command which should normally take milliseconds. I just don't know what to do here. I've got no sited assistance to help me which makes this problem that much more frustrating.

Doug


Douglas Lawlor
Email: douglawlor@me.com


On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:29 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Doug,

Have you considered using the Reset function under the Update & Security Settings, Recovery Pane? It wipes the existing Win10 installation and completely reinstalls the operating system but you can choose whether to keep your files (or at least the vast majority of them) or to start with an entirely clean slate. I never resort to an actual clean reinstallation of Windows 10 from external media until and unless a Reset has not solved the problem.
--
Brian

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises.

~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902







Re: Reinstalling Windows 10

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think the problem for me with reinstalling is exactly that you might do it all then find the drive is knackered. One thing to check is the drive connections for power supply and s data at both ends of the cable. These new serial driven drives do seem to be very prone to the plugs coming loose.
However to get things sorted out then you might need to do a disc test and hope it remains OK.
If you just do a fix without knowing what caused the issue, you will just encounter the same problem further down the road in my experience.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 1:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reinstalling Windows 10


Well you can try a reset, to be honest though it may be time to just take your box to a shop and ask them to reformat it for you.
I still am a firm believer that a box should run the system it was designed for for best performance.
So if you ran xp on it it should run that or 7 well you get the picture.
I'd actually be wandering if you either have a virus or something or simply that your hardwre has issues and it may do.


On 16/12/2016 7:33 a.m., Douglas Lawlor wrote:
Hello Brian,
I would do this if I could, but I cannot use the system at all in it's current state. It is taking minutes for NVDA to respond to a command which should normally take milliseconds. I just don't know what to do here. I've got no sited assistance to help me which makes this problem that much more frustrating.

Doug


Douglas Lawlor
Email: douglawlor@me.com


On Dec 15, 2016, at 1:29 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Doug,

Have you considered using the Reset function under the Update & Security Settings, Recovery Pane? It wipes the existing Win10 installation and completely reinstalls the operating system but you can choose whether to keep your files (or at least the vast majority of them) or to start with an entirely clean slate. I never resort to an actual clean reinstallation of Windows 10 from external media until and unless a Reset has not solved the problem.
--
Brian

Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises.

~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902






Re: Donating During Update

 

I second this


On 12/16/2016 2:24 AM, David Griffith wrote:

I wonder if the donation page during update could be looked at an simplified.

 

On Firefox the donation options are not read as discrete options   unless you use control keys with arrow keys, and to my deaf ears at leazst it is confusing as all the suggested amounts of donations are initially read out as a single strihng  which is a little overwhelming and scary as some of the suggested amounts are pretty considerable.

To my ears at least the check box for the amount is not clear – does it relate to the amount before or after the amount etc.

It is a little anxiety making and does not feel quite safe and the worry is that you are to donate an amount you cannot afford.

More importantly on a couple of occasion  this has meant I have checked the wrong amount when trying to donate  and again on my system once a check box is check is seems impossible to uncheck it. Pressing space or enter does not seem possible to amend this once it has been entered.

 

This has twice meant that I have pulled out of the donation page when I genuinely wanted to donate.

 

The behaviour of the page which would feel safe to me would be to cursor down and hear each donation option as a separate option  with a clear safe option to check or uncheck the amount you are committing, rather than only being able to review by hearing whole sections of the page read out.

My inability to complete this page is probably down to my own ineptitude  and user error but I would have thought that a donation page at least should be ultra straightforward and easy to complete.

Just a suggestions.

 

David Griffith

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: changing the function key

ADRIAN POCOCK
 

you could try a program called sharpkeys which is free to redefine a key like scroll lock key to perform the required action.


Re: How to burn a disk in Windows 10

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well I think the old CD burner xp still works, though some of the newer drives to my mind are not as good at making a cd that all players can read. I often find myself back on an old xp machine doing it on there with an older drive.

This is nothing to do with windows 10 just the tendency for drives to be pretty rubbish these days. Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Arnþór Helgason" <arnthor.helgason@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 10:41 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to burn a disk in Windows 10


Maybe this question has already been answared.


When I wanted to burn a cd disk with my cd-burner it doesn't seem to work with Windows 10. What is the most accessible method to create a music cd?


Thanks,


Arnthor Helgason



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Re: changing the function key

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

This sort of thing catches many new users out, sadly it also seems that most of the big outlets have people iin them who glaze over when you ask this sort of question, like can I test my screenreader first and can you supply it with this function disabled as they have no idea it is even a feeature in the first place!

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] changing the function key


Also the problem with taping the key down, is that for any other keys that
use Fn+key combinations, they will always act as if the key was down. it
also might not register properly when the machine restarts. It sounds like
it would be worth getting sighted help to get into the bios and change this
setting once and for all. At least, once it's done you can just use the PC
normally again.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Robert,

I know of no way to change this on HP hardware without going
into either UEFI or BIOS (depending on the age of the machine). This
feature is known as Action Keys. My laptop had this enabled and I promptly
disabled via the BIOS settings under UEFI. Under UEFI it's in the BIOS
settings, System Configuration settings and is enabled if you have to hit
Fn in order for the function key to act like a function key, not perform
the function shown on its icon.

There are some brands that have a way to do this via the user
interface. I can't find any for HP. Here's a link to their support page
<http://www.support.hp.com/us-en/document/c02035108/> giving details on
how to turn it off via BIOS for machines from the straight BIOS era. It's
virtually identical under UEFI once you know where to look, which I
mentioned above.
--
*Brian*

* Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from **insufficient
premises.*

* ~ Samuel Butler, 1835-1902*







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: Reinstalling Windows 10

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I wonder is this machine by any chance an AMD processor one, as we do already know that all the versions of windows updated this month seem to have added some code into the windows update routines that some amd processors find keeps them rather busy doing very little. ahem...
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" <chrismedley@btinternet.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reinstalling Windows 10



Use narrator instead of nvda until you reset it
Or whatever you need to do


Re: Important announcement: starting today, some add-ons will require you to upgrade to NVDA 2016.4

Rui Fontes
 

I think they will not install...

Rui


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Brian's Mail list account
Data: 16 de dezembro de 2016 10:31
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] Important announcement: starting today, some add-ons will require you to upgrade to NVDA 2016.4

Sounds reasonable but will you be testing that if people attempt to run
newer versions on older nvda, that it won't screw anything up and just won't
load or turn them off?
Otherwise I can see the folk who never read the words or update unless they
need to getting their nvdas in a bit of a pickle!
Maybe the last version which worked on 2016.3 should be retained on a page
of legacy add onse for those for whatever reason who cannot update. This
will probably be those who rely on their administrators to install nvda.


Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 3:43 AM
Subject: [nvda] Important announcement: starting today, some add-ons will
require you to upgrade to NVDA 2016.4


Hi everyone,

For those using 2016.3 or earlier: there will come a time when some add-ons
will ask you to upgrade to NVDA 2016.4 in order for them to function. For my
add-ons, I'll enforce 2016.4 requirement from February 2017 releases:



* StationPlaylist Studio: Version 17.04 (currently listed as
17.1-dev) will require 2016.4 or later. Major parts of this add-on now uses
features introduced in 2016.4 (specifically, new user interface routines).

* Windows 10 App Essentials: Version 17.02 will not run properly
under NVDA 2016.3 or earlier. A critical component required to support
universal apps and write app modules for them has been included in NVDA
2016.4, thus this is no longer needed in the add-on.



Other add-ons that will require you to use NVDA 2016.4 include upcoming
versions of Place Markers, Rapid Settings, Clip Contents Designer and
others. Also, an add-on called Indentone (by Derek Riemer), used to let you
hear indentation via tones, is hereby deprecated and should be removed, as
NVDA 2016.4 includes this feature.



For add-on writers: I'll write a formal directive to the add-ons list, but
the big picture is: if you are going to use graphical user interfaces such
as dialogs, you should use GUI Helper services provided by NVDA 2016.4 or
later. Also, you can now write app modules where executable names have a dot
in the middle (for that, replace dots with underscores).



Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Reinstalling Windows 10

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I'm told that if you have an iso or dvd of the anniversary edition of 10, it is possible to do it, indeed I think there have been some podcasts on how to do it using narrator.
Are you absolutely sure your issues are so serious it needs a reinstll though?
Often one can run an image of 10 and kind of repair it from that.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Lawlor" <douglawlor@me.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 5:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Reinstalling Windows 10


Hello all,
I know there are more appropriate lists I should be posting this on but I need an answer as soon as I can get one.
I have a Windows 10 laptop that is totally unusable and need to install Windows 10 from a working image I have on a USB drive. How can I restart Windows into Safe mode where I can do this? I'm getting program Manager not responding from NVDA so I know there is a problem where a reinstall of Windows would be the best option. It would be really wonderful if one could install Windows without sited assistance but that's still not possible as far as I'm aware.

Thanks,

Doug


Douglas Lawlor
Email: douglawlor@me.com


Re: intel 64-bit processors with amd instruction sets: (was [nvda] A word of warning about xp and windoows update enabled systems with old amd processors

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes I notice this. The other issues that I was on about with ref to older amd processors are those early Athlon/Sempron ones that had 3D Now! code instead of SSE 2. Some software supported this, but most did not, falling back to inefficient older ways as has apparently happened in some recent windows updates, which has caused the single core old amds to effectively run at full whack and have no time to actually do any computing!
Turn of automatic updates and the routines Microsoft now seem to use get switched off until you are sure there are updates to be downloaded, then go off and have a holiday while they install.
Pritty soon those machinenes mostly running xp and Vista, will be unusable in any case, but I still think there will be a smattering of oddball dead end chips around that will only show their true colours on some software.
Maybe there should be ahome for retired old processors!

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: intel 64-bit processors with amd instruction sets: (was [nvda] A word of warning about xp and windoows update enabled systems with old amd processors


Hi,
The following is a bit technical, so please bear with me for a second:
Almost two decades ago, many microprocessor manufacturers noted that the
32-bit 4 GB limit would be reached within a few years, hence development of
64-bit processors began. Intel and AMD took two different routes: Intel came
up with a completely different 64-bit architecture than that of Pentium,
while AMD extended Pentium's language and made it work with 64-bit data.
Eventually, Intel adopted AMD's approach, hence you'll find that even for
Intel processors, the architecture name is AMD64 (technically called
x86-64). Modern 64-bit processors from Intel and AMD can run 32-bit software
such as NVDA because they can understand 32-bit instructions natively in
hardware, and Windows and other operating systems have mechanisms to allow
32-bit software to run under 64-bit operating systems (I'll describe this
process from start to finish upon request).
Cheers,
Joseph
P.S. To Derek and other devs: at some point, we should explain what WoW64
is.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Travis
Siegel
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 8:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: intel 64-bit processors with amd instruction sets: (was [nvda] A
word of warning about xp and windoows update enabled systems with old amd
processors

Perhaps companies don't support it, but they should. I have an intel
processor, but it uses the amd command set. In fact, if I do a system info,
it tells me intel processor, (with all it's various version information),
then tells me amd-64, then returns to intel for processor type and so on.
It's very odd, but I have discovered that intel 64-bit programs don't work
on this machine, only amd-64 apps work (go figure)

This is an all in one computer, so it's likely using one of the intel laptop
processors that have the power saving features of a laptop, but apparently,
these cpus are also using amd commands for their command sets. <shrug>



On 12/15/2016 6:10 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
I noticed yesterday on an old XP Athlon machine, the chip with no sse
2, that after a latest xp security update which is enabled on that
machine, the processor usage was 99 percent. trying this on a second
machine running a sempron resulted in the same issue, but not on the
old Pentium Intel chipped machines.
The thing is it seems to have altered the way the software looks for
and downloads windows updates, so to stop this problem you need to
turn off automatic updates. This can be quite a challenge with about 1
percent processor still working when nvda tends to need 143 percent,
but after doing this and rebooting all is sweetness and light again. I
only put this on here as I know a lot of folk in some of the poorer
countries out there still use xp machines with the get updates hack on
them, and wanted to help.
I'll shut up about it now, as in fact its off topic.
I imagine Microsoft never bother to test it on this processor as so
many companies now do not support it, like dropbox or firefox to name
but two.


Brian

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Re: NVDA 2016.4 released #nvdasr

Quentin Christensen
 

Thank you Nasrin, Your kind words are very warming, I will share them with the team!

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 2:34 PM, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
the best program for me is firefox and i downloaded it because of the
improvements in mozilla firefox!
i am very happy and i dont know how to express my happiness and appreciation!

On 12/16/16, Kwork <istherelife@...> wrote:
> and you could have been using it for a few weeks now as the rc (release
> candidate) is always the nearly final version, and not much, if anything
> changes between the rc and the final. No need to be afraid of rc versions.
> They don't bite.
> Travis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Supanut Leepaisomboon
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 7:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2016.4 released #nvdasr
>
>
> Finally! I've been waiting for months for this release!
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org






--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: intel 64-bit processors with amd instruction sets: (was [nvda] A word of warning about xp and windoows update enabled systems with old amd processors

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I don't know about hese chips. I'm talking really old. I think in the main its insufficient testing of applications. I've noticed that the latest Dropbox even 32 bit fall over on such machines as I mentioned whatever flavour of windows is running, and indeed so does Firefox after version 48. This is due to there being no sse2 instruction set option in the chip which either falls out of the code as in dropbox, or is flagged when you try to install as in Firefox, or does give C runtime errors as in Speedfan etc etc.
I suspect gradually, people will either force AMD to get back on track with compatability or they will just lose the market to the great God Intel, sadly.



Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Travis Siegel" <tsiegel@softcon.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 4:45 PM
Subject: intel 64-bit processors with amd instruction sets: (was [nvda] A word of warning about xp and windoows update enabled systems with old amd processors


Perhaps companies don't support it, but they should. I have an intel processor, but it uses the amd command set. In fact, if I do a system info, it tells me intel processor, (with all it's various version information), then tells me amd-64, then returns to intel for processor type and so on. It's very odd, but I have discovered that intel 64-bit programs don't work on this machine, only amd-64 apps work (go figure)

This is an all in one computer, so it's likely using one of the intel laptop processors that have the power saving features of a laptop, but apparently, these cpus are also using amd commands for their command sets. <shrug>



On 12/15/2016 6:10 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
I noticed yesterday on an old XP Athlon machine, the chip with no sse 2, that after a latest xp security update which is enabled on that machine, the processor usage was 99 percent. trying this on a second machine running a sempron resulted in the same issue, but not on the old Pentium Intel chipped machines.
The thing is it seems to have altered the way the software looks for and downloads windows updates, so to stop this problem you need to turn off automatic updates. This can be quite a challenge with about 1 percent processor still working when nvda tends to need 143 percent, but after doing this and rebooting all is sweetness and light again. I only put this on here as I know a lot of folk in some of the poorer countries out there still use xp machines with the get updates hack on them, and wanted to help.
I'll shut up about it now, as in fact its off topic.
I imagine Microsoft never bother to test it on this processor as so many companies now do not support it, like dropbox or firefox to name but two.


Brian

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