Date   
sapi5? Re: [nvda] Support for enhanced accessibility in Kindle 1.19

Simone Dal Maso
 

Hello, in particular to Ollie.
Ok, I installed Kindle 1.19 and the NVDA appropriate snapshot.
There are two things to say, a part of a great thank you for this work.

The first, I'm italian and Kindle installed on my pc with the italian interface and when I press ctrl-t for reading books with voice, it started with the italian synthesizer Elsa, that is the default on Windows10.
So, reading italian book is possible also!

The second thing is... can I change synthesizer?
Ok, I have NVDA and I can read books with it, but if the ebook haven't the advanced typesettings on, NVDA can't read it, instead Kindle read by itself.
I tried importing a pdf for example, and as expected, NVDA doesn't read the text, Kindle yes with the ctrl-t option.

But unfortunately in Italy Microsoft voices are ... ok, better don't say what they are, the problem is that I can't change the synthesizer to a sapi5.
Oh, you can change it for Narrator and works, but if you want to assing your default synthesizer of Windows to a Sapi5... no chance for me!

Some ideas?

Il 04/01/2017 15:22, Mallard ha scritto:
Hello Jamie and all,


This works great on my machine, running Windows 10 latest update and the
NVDA snapshot you recommended.


Pity the reading feature is only available for English, and other
languages were never added.


As a matter of fact, I could only install the Kindle for Pc with
Accessibility Plugin because you gave a link on the NV Access site.
Otherwise, for us outside the US, or maybe the UK, downloading the app
from Amazon is not allowed.


Anyway, this is a great step forward in NVDA development.

Again, thanks for the great job!

Ollie





Il 04/01/2017 01:40, James Teh ha scritto:
Hi all,

We're excited to announce that NVDA 2017.1 will support the enhanced
accessibility functionality available in Amazon Kindle for PC version
1.19. This enables users to read books in browse mode, work with notes
and highlighted text and much more. NVDA 2017.1 is expected to be
available in late February 2017, but a beta version of NVDA with
Kindle support is available for testing today. See this page for details:
http://www.nvaccess.org/kindle/
Try it out and tell us what you think!

Thanks!

Jamie

Re: Driver Update

 

Here's another voice saying that driver update utilities are "the spawns of Satan."   I cannot tell you how many machines I've had to fix because someone used one that was, in actuality, malware or even with "legitimate" ones broke perfectly functioning systems.

Windows Update does a very good job of updating drivers if needed.  For the few things it does not update (or, on rare occasions, screws up) you are wise to go straight to the manufacturer's website and support pages for the device in question and download the driver from them (and only them).

Brian

Re: Support for enhanced accessibility in Kindle 1.19

Christopher Bartlett
 

If I install this trial version, will I still automatically receive the master snapshot updates I currently receive?


On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 11:17 PM, Kwork <istherelife@...> wrote:
This is very very good news. Thank you so much!
Travis
----- Original Message -----
From: James Teh
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 5:40 PM
Subject: [nvda] Support for enhanced accessibility in Kindle 1.19

Hi all,

We're excited to announce that NVDA 2017.1 will support the enhanced accessibility functionality available in Amazon Kindle for PC version 1.19. This enables users to read books in browse mode, work with notes and highlighted text and much more. NVDA 2017.1 is expected to be available in late February 2017, but a beta version of NVDA with Kindle support is available for testing today. See this page for details:
http://www.nvaccess.org/kindle/
Try it out and tell us what you think!

Thanks!

Jamie




--
Christopher Bartlett

Re: LibreOffice Writer Annoyances - The beginning

 

thanks every one for your help.
antony and carlos,
i remember that in 2014 or 2015, i tried wordgraph from the link which
i sent and i could not read my farsi documents with it.
i even could not write and navigate in my documents.
i am not sure about english,
but if you tried it and say that its not accessible and there is no
way to make it accessible,
i realy appreciate any of your help and help from others too.

On 1/5/17, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io
<wsautodidata=yahoo.com.br@groups.io> wrote:
I started this thread and Agree that now its time to close it.

Note that it is about an "annoyance" with LibreOffice and NVDA and not
about commercial versus open source software.



Em 05/01/2017 07:30, Carlos escreveu:
Hello:

This thread should be closed at some point!

As the saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water; but! You can't
make him/her drink!"

You can only help those who are willing to accept advice and not
those who are so narrow minded that the advice being given never makes
sense to them in their way of thoughts!!!

So, can we please put this thread to bed!!!


On 1/5/2017 12:03 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
i think if there is no program to help me, i should revert to
openoffice or libreoffice.
i have many reasons, that cant use commercial programs and the
opensource projects are the best choice for me.
i realy believe in opensource programs and idiology and admire them.
if i were a programmer, for sure i contribute to opensource projects
like nvda.

On 1/5/17, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 07:24 pm, Antony Stone wrote:

Your choice, but you have to accept the consequences of that choice.
Would that this wise (and, one would think, obvious) counsel were
universally embraced where personal choice is involved.

Brian




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

NVDA And Bluetooth Speaker

Hicks Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES)
 

Hi friends,

 

Running NVDA, latest version and have connected up a Bluetooth speaker to my laptop running the latest build of Microsoft Windows 10.

NVDA Speaks on the logon screen through the laptop speakers but after logon, stops talking.

It was talking through the Bluetooth speaker when switched on but if you turn that off, the sounds defaults back to the laptop for system sounds but NVDA doesn’t default back to the laptop.

If this makes any sense, has anyone had any similar issues or is there a way to select the default sound card for NVDA?

 



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Re: Driver Update

Shaun Oliver
 

this is indeed correct. if you've just done a fresh install of windows or you really want updated drivers, going to the manufacturer's web site is the recommended course of action.



On 5/01/2017 20:00, Gene wrote:
I don't use such utilities and I don't have information about which ones are accessible.  However, I shall make general comments on the subject.  I wouldn't update any drivers except when a new driver has one or more features you want or does something meaningful such as improve performance, such as allow a scanner to run faster. 
 
If you want to find drivers because you are updating to a new version of Windows, my impression is, though I know little about this, that it's generally safer to go to the site of the product manufacturer and look for a driver there.  I believe that some or perhaps many update utilities supply drivers that contain malware.  I believe I saw comments from Brian stating this in the past.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2017 3:16 AM
Subject: [nvda] Driver Update

Need accessible utility to search for driver updates which will run with NVDA

Andrea


Re: very, very strange problem

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Paul,

NVDA should have created a log of the crash.  If you can copy that here it might help troubleshoot.  Steps for getting the log and information about what it contains can be found here on our GitHub page: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:15 PM, P. Otter <pam.otter@...> wrote:
hello all, a friend of mine gave me a braille display, it is a hims sync braille display.
it works fine, all is working properly, but when i want to restart nvda, my computer is crashing completely, it makes a reboot and nvda tells me that the configurationfile is damaged and nvda is back to vactory settings!
i've allso a hims smart beetle, but there was no problem when i try to restart nvda.
i don't know what is the reason that with the sync i can'nt restart nvda but with the smart beetle there is no problem.
and that while the hims sync braille is in the list of braille displays of nvda.
is there anybody who is using also the hims sync braille?
what can that be?
cheers
paul otter
 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

Re: Driver Update

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

I seem to remember a program literally called driver update which would do this very thing.

I'm sorry, but I cannot verbatim remember the exact name of the software. I think that was it though.

Chris.



Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2017, at 05:56, Ben J. Bloomgren <bbloomgren@...> wrote:

Hello Andrea and all,


In addition to what Jean said, driver updates can mean accessibility diminutions and other problems with the devices or software programs in question. I would update sparingly, as Jean indicated.


Ben


On 1/5/2017 2:16, Andrea Sherry wrote:

Need accessible utility to search for driver updates which will run with NVDA

Andrea


Re: LibreOffice Writer Annoyances - The beginning

Walmir Schultz
 

I started this thread and Agree that now its time to close it.

Note that it is about an "annoyance" with LibreOffice and NVDA and not about commercial versus open source software.



Em 05/01/2017 07:30, Carlos escreveu:

Hello:

This thread should be closed at some point!

As the saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water; but! You can't make him/her drink!"

You can only help those who are willing to accept advice and not those who are so narrow minded that the advice being given never makes sense to them in their way of thoughts!!!

So, can we please put this thread to bed!!!


On 1/5/2017 12:03 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
i think if there is no program to help me, i should revert to
openoffice or libreoffice.
i have many reasons, that cant use commercial programs and the
opensource projects are the best choice for me.
i realy believe in opensource programs and idiology and admire them.
if i were a programmer, for sure i contribute to opensource projects like nvda.

On 1/5/17, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 07:24 pm, Antony Stone wrote:

Your choice, but you have to accept the consequences of that choice.
Would that this wise (and, one would think, obvious) counsel were
universally embraced where personal choice is involved.

Brian

Re: Driver Update

Ben J. Bloomgren
 

Hello Andrea and all,


In addition to what Jean said, driver updates can mean accessibility diminutions and other problems with the devices or software programs in question. I would update sparingly, as Jean indicated.


Ben


On 1/5/2017 2:16, Andrea Sherry wrote:

Need accessible utility to search for driver updates which will run with NVDA

Andrea


Re: LibreOffice Writer Annoyances - The beginning

Walmir Schultz
 

I agree that we must choice the better tool, being it commercial or open source.

In relation to MS Office and LibreOffice, to my needs, LibreOffice is clearly the best choice (even the shortcuts are better and the tasks are done more rapidly so).

I was using LibreOffice with Windows Magnifier before my vision got worse without any problem. Issues arrived only when I was forced to use NVDA.



Em 05/01/2017 01:24, Antony Stone escreveu:

Wishing to use only Open Source software is a noble ideology, but sometimes
this means you're not using the best tool for the job. Your choice, but you
have to accept the consequences of that choice.

I can't imagine what the "many reasons" might be why you "can't buy commercial
software", other than the single reason of the price.


Antony.

On Thursday 05 January 2017 at 03:55:18, nasrin khaksar wrote:

but i only wish to use opensource products and cant buy commercial
softwares for many reasons.

On 1/4/17, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I wouldn't be too quick to accept what you were told as being generally
true. There is all sorts of misinformation on the Internet. We don't
know anything about this person's system. We don't know if there are
problems on it that the person doesn't know about.

I would consider the comments you are referring to as worth keeping in
mind but aI would draw no conclusions unless I got verification from a
number of other users. Then I would consider there to be a reasonable
chance that the statement is correct. otherwise, I would just consider
it to be a statement to keep in mind awaiting more information.

Also, you say that you don't want to pay for a program. I'm not asking
what you can afford. Your finances aren't my business. But I am saying
that if you can afford programs that are known to work but you don't get
them out of ideology, you are causing yourself problems for no reasons
other than ideology. I use the tools that work well. I don't use
programs based on whether they are open source. There is nothing
magical about open source programs. Unless there is a reason not to,
such as not being able to afford a program, I am a very strong believer
in using what meets my needs best.

Gene

very, very strange problem

P. Otter
 

hello all, a friend of mine gave me a braille display, it is a hims sync braille display.
it works fine, all is working properly, but when i want to restart nvda, my computer is crashing completely, it makes a reboot and nvda tells me that the configurationfile is damaged and nvda is back to vactory settings!
i've allso a hims smart beetle, but there was no problem when i try to restart nvda.
i don't know what is the reason that with the sync i can'nt restart nvda but with the smart beetle there is no problem.
and that while the hims sync braille is in the list of braille displays of nvda.
is there anybody who is using also the hims sync braille?
what can that be?
cheers
paul otter
 

Re: LibreOffice Writer Annoyances - The beginning

Gene
 

Please send requests for matters such as closing threads to the owner's address. 
nvda+owner@nvda.groups.io
Asking that a thread be stopped is a narration message and list members shouldn't send narrator messages to the list, taking over a function of a narrator. 
 
If the thread turns into a debate, which appears to be turning into a long discussion, I'll ask that the thread be stopped.  At this time, it isn't a very active thread and I wouldn't rule out the possibility that useful information about open source programs might not be presented by a list member. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2017 3:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] LibreOffice Writer Annoyances - The beginning

Hello:

     This thread should be closed at some point!

     As the saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water; but! You can't
make him/her drink!"

     You can only help those who are willing to accept advice and not
those who are so narrow minded that the advice being given never makes
sense to them in their way of thoughts!!!

     So, can we please put this thread to bed!!!


On 1/5/2017 12:03 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
> i think if there is no program to help me, i should revert to
> openoffice or libreoffice.
> i have many reasons, that cant use commercial programs and the
> opensource projects are the best choice for me.
> i realy believe in opensource programs and idiology and admire them.
> if i were a programmer, for sure i contribute to opensource projects like nvda.
>
> On 1/5/17, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 07:24 pm, Antony Stone wrote:
>>
>>> Your choice, but you have to accept the consequences of that choice.
>> Would that this wise (and, one would think, obvious) counsel were
>> universally embraced where personal choice is involved.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>

--
Carlos Gonzalez - Los Angeles, CA. - gmjc341961@...



Re: LibreOffice Writer Annoyances - The beginning

Carlos
 

Hello:

SSuite Office software barely works with any screen reader!

It's is written in native Windows code. But, lacks any of the Windows accessibility API functions.

Hope you can find what you're looking for so that this thread can finally be closed!!!

On 1/5/2017 1:39 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
i found a program before.
i tested this program before and i could not use it with nvda.
i emailed the author and he told me that it should be okay with nvda.
could someone test me with nvda please and help me about its accessibility?
here you are the link:

http://www.ssuitesoft.com/wordgraph.htm

On 1/5/17, Carlos <gmjc341961@...> wrote:
Hello:

This thread should be closed at some point!

As the saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water; but! You can't
make him/her drink!"

You can only help those who are willing to accept advice and not
those who are so narrow minded that the advice being given never makes
sense to them in their way of thoughts!!!

So, can we please put this thread to bed!!!


On 1/5/2017 12:03 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
i think if there is no program to help me, i should revert to
openoffice or libreoffice.
i have many reasons, that cant use commercial programs and the
opensource projects are the best choice for me.
i realy believe in opensource programs and idiology and admire them.
if i were a programmer, for sure i contribute to opensource projects like
nvda.

On 1/5/17, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 07:24 pm, Antony Stone wrote:

Your choice, but you have to accept the consequences of that choice.
Would that this wise (and, one would think, obvious) counsel were
universally embraced where personal choice is involved.

Brian
--
Carlos Gonzalez - Los Angeles, CA. - gmjc341961@...




--
Carlos Gonzalez - Los Angeles, CA. - gmjc341961@...

Re: nvda command

Gary Metzler <gmtravel@...>
 

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the info.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2017 2:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda command

Well you just maximise the window in the normal way, or use one of several
utilities that can do this, though I have to say its only rarely the things
need to be maximised.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Luther Fuller" <theheathbar123@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda command


NVDA+f gives you font and formatting information. I don't know of a command
to tell you the size of the window.

--Luther

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 4, 2017, at 9:22 AM, Gary Metzler <gmtravel@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Is there a command in nvda that will tell me what font I am using while in ms word? Also, is there a command to inform me that the current window is maximized? Thanks for any help.Regards, Gary kn4ox

Re: nvda command

Gary Metzler <gmtravel@...>
 

Thank you for this info.

-----Original Message-----
From: nasrin khaksar
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2017 9:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda command

hi.
you can use nvda+f to know about form and formatting uptions
and also you can set the announcement of these options in preferences,
document formatting.

On 1/5/17, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
As everyone noted, NVDA+F gives formatting information. A new feature is
that if you press NVDA+F twice quickly, it opens a small window with this
information so you can read it in more depth as depending on the structure
of your document, formatting can get quite complex.

Regarding maximising the window, pressing windows+up arrow should maximise
a window in most cases (from Windows 7 upwards). Where it may work
slightly differently is that you can also press WINDOWS+right arrow or
WINDOWS+left arrow to make a window take up precisely that half of the
screen. From there if you press WINDOWS+up arrow, the window will then
resize to take up the top quarter of the screen (and WINDOWS+down arrow
resizes to take up the bottom quarter). In that case, pressing WINDOWS+up
arrow a second time will maximise the window (and pressing windows+up arrow
on a window which is already maximised doesn't do anything so there is no
harm in pressing it twice just to be sure).

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Gary Metzler <gmtravel@...>
wrote:

I want to thank those who answered my command question. It is
appreciated.

*From:* Gary Metzler
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 4, 2017 10:22 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* [nvda] nvda command

Hi All,

Is there a command in nvda that will tell me what font I am using while
in
ms word? Also, is there a command to inform me that the current window
is
maximized? Thanks for any help.Regards, Gary kn4ox



--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

Re: nvda command

Gary Metzler <gmtravel@...>
 

Hi Quentin,
 
Thank you for this info.  It is most helpful.
 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2017 7:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda command
 
As everyone noted, NVDA+F gives formatting information.  A new feature is that if you press NVDA+F twice quickly, it opens a small window with this information so you can read it in more depth as depending on the structure of your document, formatting can get quite complex.
 
Regarding maximising the window, pressing windows+up arrow should maximise a window in most cases (from Windows 7 upwards).  Where it may work slightly differently is that you can also press WINDOWS+right arrow or WINDOWS+left arrow to make a window take up precisely that half of the screen.  From there if you press WINDOWS+up arrow, the window will then resize to take up the top quarter of the screen (and WINDOWS+down arrow resizes to take up the bottom quarter).  In that case, pressing WINDOWS+up arrow a second time will maximise the window (and pressing windows+up arrow on a window which is already maximised doesn't do anything so there is no harm in pressing it twice just to be sure).
 
Regards
 
Quentin.
 
On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Gary Metzler <gmtravel@...> wrote:
I want to thank those who answered my command question.  It is appreciated.
 
From: Gary Metzler
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2017 10:22 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda command
 
Hi All,
 
Is there a command in nvda that will tell me what font I am using while in ms word?  Also, is there a command to inform me that the current window is maximized?  Thanks for any help.Regards, Gary kn4ox


 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess

Re: LibreOffice Writer Annoyances - The beginning

Antony Stone
 

Please could you give us some more details about how you "could not use it
with NVDA"?

What problems did you experience?

Telling us this will enable anyone who has the time to help you to focus on
the problems you experienced, rather than simply trying out a program in their
own way without necessarily knowing if they're even looking at the parts you
found less than ideal.

Antony.

On Thursday 05 January 2017 at 10:39:58, nasrin khaksar wrote:

i found a program before.
i tested this program before and i could not use it with nvda.
i emailed the author and he told me that it should be okay with nvda.
could someone test me with nvda please and help me about its accessibility?
here you are the link:

http://www.ssuitesoft.com/wordgraph.htm
--
There's a good theatrical performance about puns on in the West End. It's a
play on words.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.

Re: LibreOffice Writer Annoyances - The beginning

 

i found a program before.
i tested this program before and i could not use it with nvda.
i emailed the author and he told me that it should be okay with nvda.
could someone test me with nvda please and help me about its accessibility?
here you are the link:

http://www.ssuitesoft.com/wordgraph.htm

On 1/5/17, Carlos <gmjc341961@...> wrote:
Hello:

This thread should be closed at some point!

As the saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water; but! You can't
make him/her drink!"

You can only help those who are willing to accept advice and not
those who are so narrow minded that the advice being given never makes
sense to them in their way of thoughts!!!

So, can we please put this thread to bed!!!


On 1/5/2017 12:03 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
i think if there is no program to help me, i should revert to
openoffice or libreoffice.
i have many reasons, that cant use commercial programs and the
opensource projects are the best choice for me.
i realy believe in opensource programs and idiology and admire them.
if i were a programmer, for sure i contribute to opensource projects like
nvda.

On 1/5/17, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 07:24 pm, Antony Stone wrote:

Your choice, but you have to accept the consequences of that choice.
Would that this wise (and, one would think, obvious) counsel were
universally embraced where personal choice is involved.

Brian
--
Carlos Gonzalez - Los Angeles, CA. - gmjc341961@...




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

Re: LibreOffice Writer Annoyances - The beginning

Carlos
 

Hello:

This thread should be closed at some point!

As the saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water; but! You can't make him/her drink!"

You can only help those who are willing to accept advice and not those who are so narrow minded that the advice being given never makes sense to them in their way of thoughts!!!

So, can we please put this thread to bed!!!

On 1/5/2017 12:03 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
i think if there is no program to help me, i should revert to
openoffice or libreoffice.
i have many reasons, that cant use commercial programs and the
opensource projects are the best choice for me.
i realy believe in opensource programs and idiology and admire them.
if i were a programmer, for sure i contribute to opensource projects like nvda.

On 1/5/17, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 07:24 pm, Antony Stone wrote:

Your choice, but you have to accept the consequences of that choice.
Would that this wise (and, one would think, obvious) counsel were
universally embraced where personal choice is involved.

Brian
--
Carlos Gonzalez - Los Angeles, CA. - gmjc341961@...