Date   

Re: Forcing an NVDA Search rather than a built-in search function

 

Also, as of this morning, just now, I'm back to the *%$&^ behavior where when I'm hitting INS+CTRL+F I am not ever getting the NVDA search dialog box but always having the Firefox page search bar come up at the bottom of the screen.   This is immensely frustrating for me and I cannot even begin to imagine the orders of magnitude of additional frustration that would be added were I depending on this to behave in a predictable way to actually get work done.

-- 

Brian

 He discloses the workings of a mind to which incoherence lends an illusion of profundity.

         ~ T. De Vere White

    



Re: Forcing an NVDA Search rather than a built-in search function

 

Gene,

            I can't honestly answer the "is it only Gmail's page" question because I do these kinds of intensive explorations pretty much in response to either a specific client need or a question that pops up on the groups.

            I can say that I am probably not "moving to the top of the page" insofar as forcing that via NVDA.  I would think that when I go back to the Gmail search box, which is both very near the top of the visible page and clearly before the "Select Menu Button" in the virtual the first cycle around that this should return me to the same position in the virtual page as I was in when entering the first set of Gmail search criteria.  That's why this leaves me so perplexed.  Since part of this is performing a new Gmail search, which results in a reloaded Gmail page of results, I'd also rationally believe that the virtual page is being reloaded and I should be placed at the beginning, but it appears that's not happening.  However, further research is needed.  This is why I turn to you all who actually use NVDA day in and day out, because I recognize that I could be making a mistake that I have absolutely no idea I'm making because I'm not a "real user" and no one who isn't ever develops the "in the gut" ease and facility that a day-in-day-out user of any technology does.

            Yesterday, on a completely different issue elsewhere, I was introduced to the Principle of Least Astonishment and that's what I'm experiencing a seeming violation of in this instance.  But it could be stupid user error, and I need to eliminate that as a root cause first.
--
Brian

 He discloses the workings of a mind to which incoherence lends an illusion of profundity.

         ~ T. De Vere White

    



Re: NVDA and desktop keyboards without Home and End keys

 

Shawn,

           I'm glad this finally worked out for you.  Now is when you need to contact Logitech Customer Service and complain about the accessibility of their documentation.  The setup guide is one of those insanely frustrating things from an accessibility standpoint because it's at least 95% there from my playing with it, but the very tables that they use to explain the media key functions and the shortcut keys are not.  They use great images of the actual keys from the keyboard at the top of each column but clearly do not have alternate text assigned to them, leaving you with the most vital piece of the puzzle missing.  I also cannot tell whether those tables will register as tables with a screen reader because the PDF Reader I prefer does not "play well" with screen readers and I'm in a hurry.

--
Brian

 He discloses the workings of a mind to which incoherence lends an illusion of profundity.

         ~ T. De Vere White

    



Re: NVDA and desktop keyboards without Home and End keys

Shawn Bever
 

Greetings,


I couldn't tell if this posted when I sent it earlier, so sorry if it already did.



I picked up one of the K780 keyboards yesterday. I can report that this keyboard works very well with NVDA. The key sequences needed to produce Home, End, Page Up and Page down are very simple and not cumbersome at all. The PDF file Bryan mentioned is, unfortunately, not screen reader friendly. The 4 aforementioned keystrokes are produced by pressing the FN key and pressing the left arrow for Home, right arrow for end, up arrow for Page up and down arrow for page down. The use of control and shift modifier keys work as expected to give all the usual functions of these keys.
A software utility called Options (available from logitech) is needed to finish out the needed tweaks. This utility is used to reverse the function key row behavior back to it's normal mode, where no FN keypress is needed to perform the usual windows functions. The only other thing i changed was to disable the scroll lock key, which is mapped to control + caps lock (i'm sure you can see the problem here). With the funciton key row reverted to normal, you will have to use the FN key to switch between the three paired devices, and any other function keys that are described as not needing the FN key. This is a relatively minor adjestment though.
The keyboard paired with my Samsung Note 4 and works beautifully.
All in all, this compact, very solid feeling and quiet keyboard is a keeper. It's an excellent choice for anyone wanting one keyboard for all of their devices, except for devices running Windows Phone OS.
Shawn

Shawn

On 1/8/2017 5:46 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Oh, Logitech, did they not have some special driver for this? Its been a while. I have come across keyboards both like this and with no context key etc, which is a real pain. The worst is the Dolphin original large key keyboard with loads of keys not there at all.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Bever" <shawn.bever@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2017 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and desktop keyboards without Home and End keys


Hi Brian,


Yes, the keyboard has a full numeric keypad, it's the Logitech K780.
Question is, how do I get these to behave as Home, End, Page up and so
on for editing functions instead of behaving as NVDA navigating commands?


Shawn

On 1/4/2017 8:22 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Shawn,

Did this keyboard also not have a numeric keypad? On most
keyboards, including some full sized ones, where there is no 6-pack of
"hard keys" for the functions you name these are a standard feature on
the numeric keypad when number lock is off. The general configuration
is zero - insert, decimal point - delete, one - end, three - page
down, seven - home, and nine- page up. two four six and eight are the
down, left, up, and right arrow functions, respectively.

A great many regular desktop keyboards work this way, most,
I'd say.

Brian



Re: Forcing an NVDA Search rather than a built-in search function

 

hi. i have this problem too.
when i want search something in my gmail, nvda says the result not
found and i dont know how to find everything that i needed!
the situation in firefox or any browser is worse.
gene,
may i be contact with you via your gmail addresss or skype?

On 1/12/17, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
You haven't said whether this behavior occurs on other pages or just on this
one. There are sites, such as The New York Times where you can search for a
specific button such as the all button. You haven't established, at least
not in what you have described, whether this is behavior caused by this one
page or general behavior. Also, what happens if you don't just move to the
top of the page before repeating the search, but move to the top and then do
something like tabbing once. I'm not sure what is causing the problem but
it sounds as though something isn't calibrating correctly as you move in the
virtual buffer and starts a search from the location of the previous result
rather than from the top of the page.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 10:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Forcing an NVDA Search rather than a built-in search
function


Well, there's good news and bad news.

The good news is that using INS+CTRL+F in both Firefox and Chrome is
invoking the NVDA search now that I've rebooted.

The bad news is that what NVDA finds (and I am going to have to do
additional testing) as far as the "Select Menu Button" seems to change after
having done a search. When I do my initial search in Firefox, then use
INS+CTRL+F to invoke the NVDA search and use "select" as my string it lands
on the Select Menu Button as I'd expect. If I go back and perform a
subsequent search and then use the same NVDA search, it lands me on "Select
Input Tool" rather than the "Select Menu Button" which is weird.

Even though I have the Focus Highlight add-on added on I do not seem to be
able to follow exactly where NVDA has it's focus when doing anything other
than the first NVDA search. If I completely reload my inbox page before
doing a subsequent NVDA search things seem to behave as I'd expect. I would
have to believe that the "page state" (for lack of a better description) is
precisely the same when any given Gmail search completes from its search
box, so I would think that an NVDA search for Select immediately after
should always land one on the Select Menu Button, but it doesn't.

More work to be done on my part, but if anyone has any thoughts about what I
am doing wrong or might try to do differently they will be gratefully
accepted.
--
Brian


He discloses the workings of a mind to which incoherence lends an illusion
of profundity.

~ T. De Vere White









--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Forcing an NVDA Search rather than a built-in search function

Gene
 

You haven't said whether this behavior occurs on other pages or just on this one.  There are sites, such as The New York Times where you can search for a specific button such as the all button.  You haven't established, at least not in what you have described, whether this is behavior caused by this one page or general behavior.  Also, what happens if you don't just move to the top of the page before repeating the search, but move to the top and then do something like tabbing once.  I'm not sure what is causing the problem but it sounds as though something isn't calibrating correctly as you move in the virtual buffer and starts a search from the location of the previous result rather than from the top of the page. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Forcing an NVDA Search rather than a built-in search function

Well, there's good news and bad news.

The good news is that using INS+CTRL+F in both Firefox and Chrome is invoking the NVDA search now that I've rebooted.  

The bad news is that what NVDA finds (and I am going to have to do additional testing) as far as the "Select Menu Button" seems to change after having done a search.  When I do my initial search in Firefox, then use INS+CTRL+F to invoke the NVDA search and use "select" as my string it lands on the Select Menu Button as I'd expect.  If I go back and perform a subsequent search and then use the same NVDA search, it lands me on "Select Input Tool" rather than the "Select Menu Button" which is weird.  

Even though I have the Focus Highlight add-on added on I do not seem to be able to follow exactly where NVDA has it's focus when doing anything other than the first NVDA search.  If I completely reload my inbox page before doing a subsequent NVDA search things seem to behave as I'd expect.  I would have to believe that the "page state" (for lack of a better description) is precisely the same when any given Gmail search completes from its search box, so I would think that an NVDA search for Select immediately after should always land one on the Select Menu Button, but it doesn't.

More work to be done on my part, but if anyone has any thoughts about what I am doing wrong or might try to do differently they will be gratefully accepted.
--
Brian

 He discloses the workings of a mind to which incoherence lends an illusion of profundity.

         ~ T. De Vere White

    



Re: NVDA problem with hashtag symbol

Paolo Leva
 

Thanks to all of you, I published the solution on our blog:

http://www.acapela-nvda.com/blog/2017/01/12/is-your-acapela-voice-laughing-or-crying-with-nvda/

Cheers,

Paolo


Re: Adobe Reading by Page

Walmir Schultz <wsautodidata@...>
 

Excuse me, I was referring to free PDF readers.


Em 11/01/2017 11:22, Greg Wocher escreveu:

Hello,
Adobe Reader is not the only accessible PDF reader. It may be the only accessible free one but there is one that costs $30. It is called QRead and works well with NVDA.

Regards,
Greg Wocher

On Jan 11, 2017, at 5:14 AM, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io <wsautodidata@...> wrote:

I have the same problem. Changing the options in the Accessibility Wizard don't solve the issue.

Unfortunately Adobe Reader is the only accessible PDF reader that works wit NVDA.


Em 10/01/2017 12:27, kelby carlson escreveu:
All,

I'm having issues with NVDA and Adober Reader. In some PDF files where
I have to scroll down by page, when I get to the bottom of a page
before I can press ctrl-page down I get cycled back to the top of the
page. This is pretty annoying and I really haven't figured out how to
optimize NVDA with Adobe in general. Would appreciate pointers.



Re: NVDA and desktop keyboards without Home and End keys

Shawn Bever
 

Greetings,


I picked up one of the K780 keyboards yesterday. I can report that this keyboard works very well with NVDA. The key sequences needed to produce Home, End, Page Up and Page down are very simple and not cumbersome at all. The PDF file Bryan mentioned is, unfortunately, not screen reader friendly. The 4 aforementioned keystrokes are produced by pressing the FN key and pressing the left arrow for Home, right arrow for end, up arrow for Page up and down arrow for page down. The use of control and shift modifier keys work as expected to give all the usual functions of these keys.


A software utility called Options (available from logitech) is needed to finish out the needed tweaks. This utility is used to reverse the function key row behavior back to it's normal mode, where no FN keypress is needed to perform the usual windows functions. The only other thing i changed was to disable the scroll lock key, which is mapped to control + caps lock (i'm sure you can see the problem here). With the funciton key row reverted to normal, you will have to use the FN key to switch between the three paired devices, and any other function keys that are described as not needing the FN key. This is a relatively minor adjestment though.


The keyboard paired with my Samsung Note 4 and works beautifully.


All in all, this compact, very solid feeling and quiet keyboard is a keeper. It's an excellent choice for anyone wanting one keyboard for all of their devices, except for devices running Windows Phone OS.


Shawn

On 1/8/2017 9:32 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Gentlemen, have a look at the Logitech K780 Setup Guide (which I'm presuming will be accessible with a screen reader, and the information I'm about to mention is in tables), paying particular attention to PDF page 7 (6, too, but after looking at 7), where it discusses that many of the keys you're mentioning are a 2-key press because this keyboard is both compact and set up such that it can be used with Windows, Mac, and Android and the 2-key presses to get, say INSERT if you're connected to Windows and the keyboard has been told this, will get something else if you are connected to either Mac or Android and the appropriate "switch computer context" keystroke has been issued to allow the keyboard to know it's connected to a different OS that needs certain keys to be interpreted differently.

This probably isn't the best keyboard if you are working exclusively with one computing environment because of the 2-key presses needed because of its context switching capabilities.  It's really handy, though, if you want to be able to connect either via Bluetooth or their "unifying dongle" to devices sporting diverse OS-es and to be able to reconfigure the keyboard accordingly at "the flip of a switch" (actually, the press of a flip sequence).

Brian



Re: who knows this problem?

 

If you are sure then you should ask the manufacturers if they have dlls for nvda or if you have updated drivers you should email the devs with this info I doubt they can keep tabs on everything all at once.
If the drivers are allready installed, if you clear the dlls fron nvda, you can coppy the good ones in.
Failing that, I am unsure if this happens with nvda but with some programs I use with older dlls, if I have newer ones on the system usually in the system folder, if I clear the older dlls then the program searches for the good ones and problem solved

On 12/01/2017 9:40 p.m., P. Otter wrote:
hello Jacob, thanks for your answer.
i know already what to do that windows not will reboot in a error situation but i want to find the cause that it happens.
i think, there is an error in the file syncbraille.dll or it is rather old and can not be used with windows 10 or there is a problem because it is a 64 bit system.
i know, the drivers i meen the dll files of hims they are delevered with the versions of nvda are not working properly.
because i have also a display called the hims smart beetle.
when i use the smart beetle with the file hansoneconnect.dll that is delevered with nvda, i have some problems with navigation of the display.
i've found a good one, i want to send it to the boys of nvda that they can delever it with the next version of nvda but i don't know who i have to send the better version of hansoneconnect.dll that they can use.
i'm afraid that the same problem is with the file syncbraille.dll.
but it's a pitty, i can'nt find a better version of syncbraille.dll.
i can download it, but it is then a form not as dll but as executable, and i don't trust that kind of downloads for a simple .dll.
i'm nearly sure that it contains malware!
and i'm not waiting for that!
cheers
paul otter

----- Original Message -----
From: Jacob
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] who knows this problem?


By default Windowù is set to restart on a critical error. I always turn this function off. I have a problem with some scanner software make the PC restart but when I turn this function off it runs anyway. Since I'm running a danish version of Windows I don't know exactly the name of the menu where you can turn it off. Try something like system setting, advanced setting and then setting for restart and recovery. Uncheck the automatically restart box. It'll at least make it possible for you to have a chance to read the error message.


OZ0TE Jacob

On 11. jan. 2017 at 19.43 P. Otter <pam.otter@...> wrote:


hello all, i have a 20 cels braille display, the hims syncbraille.
it works fine, all what i want it is nice displayed but there is only one problem, when i want to restart nvda, there comes a big error, i cann't see what the problem is, because the computer will reboot imidiately this happens only whit that display, i allso have a 14 cels hims smart beetle, there are no problems when i'm restarting nvda.
what can that be?
cheers
paul otter



Re: NVDA problem with hashtag symbol

Paolo Leva
 

We have information about all sounds and exclamations here:

http://www.acapela-group.com/voice-smileys/

Linked to this page there is a huge list of all sounds and exclamations, per language and per voice.


Re: NVDA problem with hashtag symbol

Paolo Leva
 

YES! This is the solution, by commenting away this line I get the tags to work. Thanks for your help!


Re: who knows this problem?

P. Otter
 


hello Jacob, thanks for your answer.
i know already what to do that windows not will reboot in a error situation but i want to find the cause that it happens.
i think, there is an error in the file syncbraille.dll or it is rather old and can not be used with windows 10 or there is a problem because it is a 64 bit system.
i know, the drivers i meen the dll files of hims they are delevered with the versions of nvda are not working properly.
because i have also a display called the hims smart beetle.
when i use the smart beetle with the file hansoneconnect.dll that is delevered with nvda, i have some problems with navigation of the display.
i've found a good one, i want to send it to the boys of nvda that they can delever it with the next version of nvda but i don't know who i have to send the better version of hansoneconnect.dll that they can use.
i'm afraid that the same problem is with the file syncbraille.dll.
but it's a pitty, i can'nt find a better version of syncbraille.dll.
i can download it, but it is then a form not as dll but as executable, and i don't trust that kind of downloads for a simple .dll.
i'm nearly sure that it contains malware!
and i'm not waiting for that!
cheers
paul otter
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Jacob
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] who knows this problem?

By default Windowù is set to restart on a critical error. I always turn this function off. I have a problem with some scanner software make the PC restart but when I turn this function off it runs anyway. Since I'm running a danish version of Windows I don't know exactly the name of the menu where you can turn it off. Try something like system setting, advanced setting and then setting for restart and recovery. Uncheck the automatically restart box. It'll at least make it possible for you to have a chance to read the error message.

OZ0TE Jacob

On 11. jan. 2017 at 19.43 P. Otter <pam.otter@...> wrote:

hello all, i have a 20 cels braille display, the hims syncbraille.
it works fine, all what i want it is nice displayed but there is only one problem, when i want to restart nvda, there comes a big error, i cann't see what the problem is, because the computer will reboot imidiately  this happens only whit that display, i allso have a 14 cels hims smart beetle, there are no problems when i'm restarting nvda.
what can that be?
cheers
paul otter
 


Re: Forcing an NVDA Search rather than a built-in search function

 

By the way, as I'm confusing myself a bit with that last post because I'm doing a Gmail search first followed by an NVDA search to find a control, then attempting to do this again, I thought I'd post the link to the article on mass Gmail selection (you don't have to delete) that I'm trying to do iteratively:

Mass Selection and Deletion of Gmail Messages via the Gmail Web Interface

On iteration two the NVDA search for "Select" doesn't find the same Gmail control that it does on the first one.  Weird.

--
Brian

 He discloses the workings of a mind to which incoherence lends an illusion of profundity.

         ~ T. De Vere White

    



Re: Forcing an NVDA Search rather than a built-in search function

 

Well, there's good news and bad news.

The good news is that using INS+CTRL+F in both Firefox and Chrome is invoking the NVDA search now that I've rebooted.  

The bad news is that what NVDA finds (and I am going to have to do additional testing) as far as the "Select Menu Button" seems to change after having done a search.  When I do my initial search in Firefox, then use INS+CTRL+F to invoke the NVDA search and use "select" as my string it lands on the Select Menu Button as I'd expect.  If I go back and perform a subsequent search and then use the same NVDA search, it lands me on "Select Input Tool" rather than the "Select Menu Button" which is weird.  

Even though I have the Focus Highlight add-on added on I do not seem to be able to follow exactly where NVDA has it's focus when doing anything other than the first NVDA search.  If I completely reload my inbox page before doing a subsequent NVDA search things seem to behave as I'd expect.  I would have to believe that the "page state" (for lack of a better description) is precisely the same when any given Gmail search completes from its search box, so I would think that an NVDA search for Select immediately after should always land one on the Select Menu Button, but it doesn't.

More work to be done on my part, but if anyone has any thoughts about what I am doing wrong or might try to do differently they will be gratefully accepted.
--
Brian

 He discloses the workings of a mind to which incoherence lends an illusion of profundity.

         ~ T. De Vere White

    



Re: OCR software?

 

If you're looking for OCR specifically for PDF files, have a look at this message I posted earlier in the year.
--
Brian

 He discloses the workings of a mind to which incoherence lends an illusion of profundity.

         ~ T. De Vere White

    



Re: OCR software?

 

hi.
i know only google OCr

On 1/12/17, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
According to what I've seen on another list, Empowerment Zone has been down
for a number of months. As I said in an earlier message, don't bother with
the program unless you want to use it as intended. You can get free OCR
programs from other sources.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Robert Kingett
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 5:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR software?


Does anyone have a link to this PDF2TXT installer? I am finding a lot of
third party installers that I am sure have adware in them. I installed
Unchecky to combat this, but still!


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: NVDA problem with hashtag symbol

Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...>
 

I was able to get it working by going into the symbol pronunciation and setting the hash mark to always be sent to the synth and replacing it with a blank space in the replace field but this is hackish, now you can't see it if you are reviewing char by char etc. I think this could be solved in the dictionary for that voice wwith NVDA's dictionary manager with use of a regular expression, however I am not sure which form this should take. Maybe someone could come up with a more elegant solution.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 5:15 AM, ChrisLeo <llajta@...> wrote:
You set so?
Symbol: #
replacement: #
Level: Some
Preserve: always.

In the replacement edit write the symbol instead of the name.

Cheers,


Chris.

Paolo Leva, 11/01/2017 10:33:
The Acapela TTS allows usage of special codes to get the TTS to laugh, cry, cough and so on. To get the desired sound you need to type for instance #LAUGH01#, #CRY01#, #COUGH01# and so on.

However NVDA seems to always process the # symbol even when you select to let it pass through to the TTS, so there seems to be no way to let these sounds work when using the Acapela TTS with NVDA, as NVDA always read like "pound sign laugh 0 1 pound sign"

I do not know whether this issue can be solved by configuration or needs some fix into the code, is anyone able to shed some light on it?

Thanks in advance!






Re: OCR software?

Gene
 

According to what I've seen on another list, Empowerment Zone has been down for a number of months.  As I said in an earlier message, don't bother with the program unless you want to use it as intended.  You can get free OCR programs from other sources.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR software?

Does anyone have a link to this PDF2TXT installer? I am finding a lot of
third party installers that I am sure have adware in them. I installed
Unchecky to combat this, but still!



Re: OCR software?

Gene
 

You don't have to go through all that.  There are free OCR engines.  I don't know how good they are but the one used in PDF to Txt converter is one of the free ones.  You aren't gaining anything by trying to take the OCR program out of that program.  If you don't get specific discussion or recommendations here, you can do a Google search and find free OCR programs.  Or you can ask on another list for recommendations.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Stewart  <paganus2@...>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 6:01 pm
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR software?

>
>
> It never worked very well for me either.  The best free and open source
> software I know of is part of the free program from Empowerment Zone
> called PDF 2 TXT.  It will take a programmer to take it apart and turn
> the OCR engine into an nvda add on but if someone ever does this, it
> will be super!  From my use of it to read PDF files that are scanned in
> pictures, the accuracy of this little thing is nearly 100%!!
>
> Roger
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 1/11/2017 4:13 PM, Robert Kingett wrote:
> > Does anyone know of any free or open source software? I can't seem to
> > get the OCR add on to work. Any suggestions?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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