Date   

Re: controlling the mouse?

 

I half aggree with you jean.
Being that I work with tech, I am always translating the commands from mice to keyboards, sometimes the mouse works sometimes it flat out doesn't.
I rarely use it as much as I should.
I do know that in some ways a touch pad is easier.
In fact a cheap no frills logitech pad is barely 20 bucks here which is cheaper than the cheapest mouse which is 30-40 bucks for a basic one here.
Ofcause these pads are self contained.
Ie you plug it in, and windows tries to find what it is.
It triggers it to then somehow go online and get the drivers for itself and install itself so its either got drivers in firmware or knows where online to get those drivers.
Once those are installed the firmware and drivers will autoupdate themselves.
To be honest, if I did what a blindy would do I wouldn't use windows, just dos, I wouldn't use anything bar a keynote or jaws because that was what I was taught.
In most cases we can use most things as a sighted would do, we do use more shortcuts which can be an advantage but its still the sighted way of doing things.
Gaming we still have a bit to go mouse wise but if you really want to be serious there are joysticks and game pads anyway.
The idea of the old mouse is changing and thats a good thing.
TTs and voice recognition are also more excepted.
Even screen reading to some extent is still accepted.
Ofcause anything to graphical is still a problem but with acception with most security software and some video converting and recording apps most stuff does work to some extent.
I actually think it needs to be the other way round, the sighted should do more things the blind way.
For example how many people do you know or have been seen/ heard by you hitting the wrong key or going all round the screen.
For the blind person we know what to do and we just do it and it works!
On the flip side we can miss things so take your pick.
For me as long as the system boots, and I get sound I can service computers with a sound card, a usb headset, and a keyboard and have no screen unless something hoses itself fully.
In an extreme version of this about 15 years back when we had win 98 going xp, my brother had a system we decided to clear the dust out of with an air compresser.
We have gotten a bit better with this, but the last time we managed to blast several chips off the main board.
The unit was old anyway, however it just stopped booting and when it did, all video stopped.
I was able to get the data backed up to several cds and transfer it over.
If I needed sight, I'd have to take it to our friendly computer fix it guy, and he would have to recover the drives or something.
This would take more time and cost more cash.
In addition I have had it where repair shops have done bad things to systems, ie loaded them with malware and offers, not cleared themselves up, etc, etc.
Anyway I had the experience where they charged for backup and transfer and when we tried to nagotiate, all the drives, both backup and primary were reformatted, they refused to aknowledge the issue we were having and all data including backups were scrubbed.
The company used went bust shortly after and granted this was an extreme case but it was a lot faster and in that case I was happy to not be sighted.
I can slso via standard shortcuts get access to things faster than the sighted.
I think the sighted are in some ways more blind than the blind are sighted.
They read a manual and well if it doesn't work they go crying to support.
I never recieved training as such, I branched out by looking and seeing what things did.
True I did end up destroying and rebuilding my unit several times but I got to know what I needed.
That concept plus a lot of others are gone with windows, and later tech but you get the idea.
Mainstream has come a long while to when I was a boy, and so I just can't fully agree with your statement.
I do think in the end you need to use your gut and see what happens.
If I did everything the blind way, I wouldn't be online, my training wasn't to use modern computers.

On 3/02/2017 9:07 p.m., Gene wrote:
I am not a sighted person. I do things in the best way I know for a blind person to do them. If a technique a sighted person uses serves me better than another, I'll use it. If a technique that works better for me as a blind person works better, I'll use it.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: jesusloves1966@...
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 1:52 AM
To: Gene ; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: RE: [nvda] controlling the mouse?


Hi all,

There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?



I didn't say that. I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor. I also said that the left click command is numpad slash. Just numpad slash by itself.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Travis Siegel

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?



In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse. I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination. That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with. Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.





On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page. No such commands are given.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?



Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on? The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know. For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated. For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Travis Siegel

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?



The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question. I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.





On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse. That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.



Gene



There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know. But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review. Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find. And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something. But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.



If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash. Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash. I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command. In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object. You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point.



I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage. But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?



If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.













--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Re: internet fax?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

The problem I always had with internet faxing was that replies arrived as graphic files and then you had to OCR them.
To me, Fax these days is very seldom needed as most companies now use emails or web forms etc.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Kingett" <@blindjourno>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 2:17 AM
Subject: [nvda] internet fax?


Is there a web service that is accessible with NVDA that will let me send faxes online?


Re: Microsoft speech AP says "nevada2 for the letters "NV"I

Gene
 

It will be somewhat tedious.  What you are hearing is your synthesizer's treatment of abbreviations and it isn't NVDA causing such names to be spoken.
 
You can use the speech dictionary to stop this behavior. 
For example, you could put NVDA or whatever lettters are being spoken as abbreviations in the word field and then place the letters as follows in the pronounced as field.
n v d a
You can do this with all abbreviations that are not spoken as you wish. I haven't done this but I think it would be a good idea to capitalize the characters you put in the word field such as writing NVDA in capitals.  Then tab to and check the case sensative check box.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 2:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft speech AP says "nevada2 for the letters "NV"I

HI,

 

Im using NVDA 2016.4 with Windows 10 on a desktop PC and Office 2016.

 

Im using the Eloquence voice in Microsoft API version 4 and it says the name of an American State for certain combinations of capitalised letters. This is annoying because instead of saying N V access it says Nevada access. In Excel, it is particularly annoying with cell references like AK5 which is the label for column 37 on the fifth row it says Alaska 5.

 

How can I stop this behaviour

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

 


Re: how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

Chris
 

Thanks for the info :D

 


Re: how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

 

I do think to be brootally honest nvda can never please everyone symbol wise.
For example apostrifee or tick.
Full stop as it is here or period as it is in the us, then again period is used as a time measurement.
So a period could be an end char.
A dot well I am unsure about that but that could also be that way to who knows.
I am unsure while the exclamation is bang though.
Saying this, underline has been told to me as line in nvda's case, underline, and underscore.
a dash is a hyfen or a quoted dash symbol.
In most countries western wise the h is just h, I have worked with people in england and the h while still said as h is pronounced with the h in h actually as "ha"
so haich.
I also know in holland where some of my family come from the g and also the h are pronounced differently I know g is a "hcha" type thing like someone snorting so its all different.
We have the symbol editer if you really want to put in your symbols I think nvda does a good job putting things in to be honest.
Saying that I really do want the ability by default or with a checkbox for the full stop to be pronounced with full stop, period or dot, exclamation should be pronounced as such or exclaim not bang.
Underscore should be underline not line or at least give people the choice.
Its also synth based.
Some sapi synths I use not scansoft ones, but some I have will not announce punctuation at all.
ie 3,000 would be 3 pause 000 and you wouldn't know.
There is no uniform way.
Look what was done with espeak ng, I really hate it that the ed announcement and a few things don't sound like old espeak and while I could keep replacing the data files, its developed to a point where while ed is still eeed its to the point where its about the only thing which is screwed up and I have got used to it.
I do think that different dialects of english should have their own symbol definitions, the default probably should emulate things we are used to but there isn't anything wrong as such.

On 3/02/2017 7:43 p.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Simon,



I don't mind that NVDA says "tick" instead of apostrophe. I'm also a fan of
efficient reading and don't want to hear extra syllables.



Rosemarie



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Simon
Jaeger
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick



Hi,

You can find this in NVDA menu > preferences > punctuation / symbol
pronunciation. Make sure you consider whether you really want three extra
syllables every time you encounter this symbol though. I'm a big fan of
efficient reading, and that's the main reason I haven't changed mine back.
you get used to it pretty quickly. Hope this helps.





Simon



On 2017-02-02 10:33, Dennis L wrote:

Hi, how do I get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick.






Re: Microsoft speech AP says "nevada2 for the letters "NV"I

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

HI,

 

Im using NVDA 2016.4 with Windows 10 on a desktop PC and Office 2016.

 

Im using the Eloquence voice in Microsoft API version 4 and it says the name of an American State for certain combinations of capitalised letters. This is annoying because instead of saying N V access it says Nevada access. In Excel, it is particularly annoying with cell references like AK5 which is the label for column 37 on the fifth row it says Alaska 5.

 

How can I stop this behaviour

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

 


Re: NVDA conflict with hot keys with Lonovo Laptop

David Moore
 

Hi Michelle,

I have to press three keys like Brian said on this laptop I am on. Many times, you do have to go to the BIOS/UEFI to change the function keys to their default. I just have gotten so used to pressing FN key+alt+F4, for example, to close a window. You can do that, or you might have to have a sighted person help you change the function keys back to how they are suppose to be in the BIOS. The makers of laptops are having the function keys, by themselves, be the volume increase and so on, and you have to press the FN key to get F1, for example. Most sighted people never use the function key itself unless they are playing games or something like that.

Take care, Michelle!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA conflict with hot keys with Lonovo Laptop

 

Michelle,

         What you describe is the increasingly common practice of manufacturers to assign "multimedia functions" and a couple of others like increase/decrease screen brightness, volume, etc., to the function key row by default.  What each of them calls this differs on my HP it is called Smart Keys.

          I would have to know the precise model of your Lenovo laptop to look up whether there is an accessible way to turn this function off (a couple of manufacturers have one) or whether it's a UEFI/BIOS tweak (and that's what it was on my machine).

          As Joseph Lee has already noted on every machine I've ever dealt with that has Smart Keys (or its equivalent) active by default pressing the Fn key along with the actual function key from the function key row makes it act as a straight function key.  In the case of screen readers this becomes a grand PITA since many two-key-press keyboard shortcuts then become three-key-press operations.
--
Brian

    I don't find an uninformed hatred a "principled position" that I need to respect in any way.

        ~ Ellen Evans, soc.motss, 11/6/2004

 

 


Re: controlling the mouse?

Gene
 

I am not a sighted person.  I do things in the best way I know for a blind person to do them.  If a technique a sighted person uses serves me better than another, I'll use it.  If a technique that works better for me as a blind person works better, I'll use it. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: jesusloves1966@...
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 1:52 AM
To: Gene ; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: RE: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 

Hi all,
 
There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,
 
David Moore
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
 
 
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
 
 
I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself. 
 
 
 
Gene
 
----- Original Message -----
 
From: Travis Siegel
 
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM
 
 
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
 
 
In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.
 
 
 
 
 
On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:
 
  I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.
 
  
 
  Gene
 
  ----- Original Message -----
 
  From: Gene
 
  Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM
 
 
  Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
  
 
  Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 
 
  
 
  Gene
 
  ----- Original Message -----
 
  From: Travis Siegel
 
  Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM
 
 
  Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
  
 
  The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.
 
  
 
  
 
  On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
 
    In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.
 
    
 
    Gene
 
    
 
    There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
    
 
    If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
    
 
    I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
 
    
 
    Gene
 
    ----- Original Message -----
 
    From: Antony Stone
 
    Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
 
 
    Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
    
 
    If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
    we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
    the mouse pointer around.
 
    The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
    object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.
 

    Antony.
 
    On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:
 
    > I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
    > the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
    > pixels.
 
    --
    All generalisations are inaccurate.
 
                                                       Please reply to the list;
                                                             please *don't* CC me.
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 
 


Re: controlling the mouse?

David Moore
 

Hi all,

There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

 

 

On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

 

 

On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

 

Gene

 

There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 

 

If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 

 

I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.

 

 

 


Re: how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Simon,

 

I don't mind that NVDA says "tick" instead of apostrophe. I'm also a fan of efficient reading and don't want to hear extra syllables.

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Simon Jaeger
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

 

Hi,

You can find this in NVDA menu > preferences > punctuation / symbol pronunciation. Make sure you consider whether you really want three extra syllables every time you encounter this symbol though. I'm a big fan of efficient reading, and that's the main reason I haven't changed mine back. you get used to it pretty quickly. Hope this helps.

 

 

Simon

 

On 2017-02-02 10:33, Dennis L wrote:

Hi, how do I get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick.

 


Re: controlling the mouse?

Gene
 

I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.



On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.



On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.
 
Gene
 
There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.





Re: how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

Dan Thompson
 

Thank you so much for this.  I was also having the same issue.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 6:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

 

Hi Denis,

 

 

1.  Insert + N for NVDA menu.

2. Choose preferences.

3.  Choose symbols and punctuation pronunciation.

4.  You are placed in a list of symbols.  Press the apostrophe key and you should hear something like tick equals tick.

5.  Tab once and type in what you want this symbol to say (in your case apostrophe.)

6.  Tab again to a combo box that asks you what level you want this pronunciation at (default is all is unless you want different cursors to speak it differently, this should suffice.)

7.  Tab once to a combo box tht says 'send actual punctuation to synthesizer.'  If you wqnt NVDa pronunciation, the default 'never' is OK.

8.  Tab to the add button and press space bar.

9.  Make any other changes if you want, and then click add again and OK.

 

This should keep the changes permenant.

 

 

On 2/2/2017 2:04 PM, Dennis L wrote:

How do I change it I somehow don’t see it in the symbles list now.  I changed it and didn’t do something right.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Simon Jaeger
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 1:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

 

Hi,

You can find this in NVDA menu > preferences > punctuation / symbol pronunciation. Make sure you consider whether you really want three extra syllables every time you encounter this symbol though. I'm a big fan of efficient reading, and that's the main reason I haven't changed mine back. you get used to it pretty quickly. Hope this helps.

 

 

Simon

 

On 2017-02-02 10:33, Dennis L wrote:

Hi, how do I get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick.

 



--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: controlling the mouse?

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.



On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.



On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.
 
Gene
 
There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.





Re: FW: [vip_students] Re: Maths

Pranav Lal
 

Hi,

Excel is the wrong tool for this because it can draw charts. You could use smart
art in Microsoft Word but the lastI checked, NVDA did not read the description
of the shapes. A better way to handle this is to use svgdraw from
http://www.dicbaldwin.com. This program uses scalable vector graphics and is
accessible with screen readers.

Pranav

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Cearbhall
O'Meadhra
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FW: [vip_students] Re: Maths

Hi all,

Is it possible for a blind student to work with circles and triangles in Excel
using NVDA?

See the query from Ricky below.


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...




----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional
version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails.
Try Spam Reader (http://www.spam-reader.com) for free now!

-----Original Message-----
From: vip_students-bounce@...
[mailto:vip_students-bounce@...] On Behalf Of Ricky Walsh
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:54 AM
To: vip_students@...
Subject: [vip_students] Re: Maths

Hi out there I am doing a course which involves Leaving Cert Maths to honours
level I am having trouble with shapes such as actually drawing circles triangles
and was wondering how all you brainboxes achieved this.
Example
Draw a circle and position a 5 point star within this circle.
Is this possible with Excel using for example a Pie chart? And what about
drawing angles Tri angles and so on is there another method or piece of
software I could get.
I could do this with a scribe but that is only available for the exam Ireally
would appreciate any help you bright sparks out there could give me.

Best wishes Ricky Walsh


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Re: how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Denis,



1.  Insert + N for NVDA menu.

2. Choose preferences.

3.  Choose symbols and punctuation pronunciation.

4.  You are placed in a list of symbols.  Press the apostrophe key and you should hear something like tick equals tick.

5.  Tab once and type in what you want this symbol to say (in your case apostrophe.)

6.  Tab again to a combo box that asks you what level you want this pronunciation at (default is all is unless you want different cursors to speak it differently, this should suffice.)

7.  Tab once to a combo box tht says 'send actual punctuation to synthesizer.'  If you wqnt NVDa pronunciation, the default 'never' is OK.

8.  Tab to the add button and press space bar.

9.  Make any other changes if you want, and then click add again and OK.


This should keep the changes permenant.



On 2/2/2017 2:04 PM, Dennis L wrote:

How do I change it I somehow don’t see it in the symbles list now.  I changed it and didn’t do something right.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Simon Jaeger
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 1:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

 

Hi,

You can find this in NVDA menu > preferences > punctuation / symbol pronunciation. Make sure you consider whether you really want three extra syllables every time you encounter this symbol though. I'm a big fan of efficient reading, and that's the main reason I haven't changed mine back. you get used to it pretty quickly. Hope this helps.

 

 

Simon

 

On 2017-02-02 10:33, Dennis L wrote:

Hi, how do I get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick.

 


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: controlling the mouse?

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi Gene


I totally agree with you with people getting to know how to use the other review modes as well.


they are not hard to learn and you only learn what you need to on how to use them

You do not need to know every shortcut say in object navigation, screen review or text review but enough to do the job.



I think where the golden cursor comes in to get to the same parts they have full control moving the mouse around and can build up a better picture of the layout of the screen.


Once they have got to the spot they want to make in to a hot spot with the mouse just on top of it, to save it to the list in that application and naming it is a blessing.


Even to bring back up the list of hot points in the application  gives you a list of all of them for that application. then it is a matter of finding the one you want then pressing the enter key on it and it will take you to that position so you can double left click for it to do its job.


Even if some one sighted puts the mouse on where a person would have to click then adds it as a hot point does the trick. Even moving your focus cursor to a position, then routing the mouse to it then hot pointing it as well does the trick.


they just also have to remember to have mouse tracking turned on so nvda will speak what is under the mouse.


Basically in short to new users it simplifies getting to a position if they do not fullly under stand the other reviews.


Gene nz



On 3/02/2017 2:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.
 
Gene
 
There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.



-- 
<b>Check out the new location of my accessibility central website for NVDA tutorials, NVDA road tested programs, and other eyesight related topics.
http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/ If you would like to keep up to date with whats being updated on our website, you can also follow us on facebook by visiting
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Also, check out which New Zealand libraries have the NVDA screen reader available by visiting the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries


Re: Attention: Maintenance #adminnotice

Arlene
 

Oh alright! Thanks for the heads up.  Is it going to be nine Pacific?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: February-02-17 10:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Attention: Maintenance #adminnotice

 

Hello all,

Groups.io will be undergoing maintenance tonight. Please do not be alarmed if you notice a period of time without messages. If you have any questions, please send a message to nvda+owner@groups.io

Thanks.

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Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
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The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
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you, and have a great day!


Re: how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

How do I change it I somehow don’t see it in the symbles list now.  I changed it and didn’t do something right.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Simon Jaeger
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 1:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

 

Hi,

You can find this in NVDA menu > preferences > punctuation / symbol pronunciation. Make sure you consider whether you really want three extra syllables every time you encounter this symbol though. I'm a big fan of efficient reading, and that's the main reason I haven't changed mine back. you get used to it pretty quickly. Hope this helps.

 

 

Simon

 

On 2017-02-02 10:33, Dennis L wrote:

Hi, how do I get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick.

 


Attention: Maintenance #adminnotice

Nimer Jaber
 

Hello all,

Groups.io will be undergoing maintenance tonight. Please do not be alarmed if you notice a period of time without messages. If you have any questions, please send a message to nvda+owner@groups.io

Thanks.
--
Cordially,

Nimer Jaber

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Re: how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

Simon Jaeger
 

Hi,

You can find this in NVDA menu > preferences > punctuation / symbol pronunciation. Make sure you consider whether you really want three extra syllables every time you encounter this symbol though. I'm a big fan of efficient reading, and that's the main reason I haven't changed mine back. you get used to it pretty quickly. Hope this helps.



Simon


On 2017-02-02 10:33, Dennis L wrote:

Hi, how do I get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick.