Date   

Re: controlling the mouse?

Dejan Ristic
 

I agree with you, although I am blind since I was born. I am 34 now, but I want to have a visual understanding, too.


On 2/3/2017 8:52 AM, David Moore wrote:

Hi all,

There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

 

 

On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

 

 

On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

 

Gene

 

There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 

 

If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 

 

I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.

 

 

 





Re: controlling the mouse?

john s
 

I don't mind moving the mouse pointer when I have to and I use Window Eyes mouse keys to do so.  Otherwise, I don't care where something is on the screen as long as I can get to it, first with keystrokes and then with mouse keys.


earlier, David Moore, wrote:

Hi all,
There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

 
 
On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

 
 
On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.
 
Gene
 
There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Antony Stone
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.

 

 
 

John


Re: controlling the mouse?

David Moore
 

Hi Shaun,

I was not trying to show off at all. I am humble as they get, knowing that anytime I could be snuffed out it was not for the lord. That is not what I am saying at all. I just think that we should be altogether as human beeings instead of blindys, sightlings, and so on. Why can everybody just see each other as human beeings. I want to know about the sighted world, and the sighted world should want to know about the blind world. I have many blind friends who have the attitude that the sighted are the enany that is slowing them down. I don't see it that way at all. Sighted people forget that I am blind, because I do not go around shouting that I am blind, look at me, I am blind. I just talk to every human beeing the same way. I do not like labels at all for any people. I tell sighted people about how great it is to be blind all of the time, and I constantly have my sighted friends using my cane, learning some Braille, because they think it is fun. Every sighted person has told me that I am not bitter like so many other blind people are. There are blind people who are bitter toward the sighted, and that is not integrating. There are blind people who think they are so much better than a sighted person. We all need to talk about what we have in common instead of what is different about us all of the time. The sighted is not the enimy of the blind, like so many blind people think. I have had sighted people bend over backward to make something accessible for me. I am just saying that at work, for example, we need to say right click instead of applications to our boss, or they will not know what we are talking about. We, as blind people, need to speak some sighted lingo if we are going to make it in the work world. In my opinion, the majority wins. In my mind, because the world is dominately sighted, the blind need to try a lot harder to get along with the sighted than the other way around. This is where many different minorities disagree with me. We need to work so hard to get the majority to get along with us, because we are in the minority. That is not a popular way for minorities to think these days I sure know. That is what I think. The sighted owe us nothing. The sighted do not have to make things accessible for us if they do not want to. We need to do what we need by ourselves to make all things accessible. The sighted owe us nothing. I work night and day to fit into the majority, the sighted. I do not expect the sighted to fit in with me, because I am the minority. I hope that makes since to some people. The minority needs to work so hard to be included into the majority instead of the other way around. That is just reality.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 4:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Hay man, I actually am slightly offended about it.

We are blind not poor helpless retarded idiots much as some sightlings

may think of us.

I say this as politely as I can.

It is beneath me to show off.

We should be trying to intergrate.

I have an aunt that when seeing me doing things ie with my special tech,

oh he can use a screen reader for the blind good for him.

Its not that I have something to read the screen, but that I am first

and foremost a blind person using a computer.

Ie I have a cane, oh, the poor dumb helpless blind can walk!

I havn't as yet figured out golden curser, but the keyboard has a major

advantage over the sighted.

Who cares what they think anyway.

At any case we should be to every extent possible be trying to include

ourselves in making them make as much accessible.

If we show off to much they may stop and we will be in more trouble.

Most security software is just not fully accessible, its why I still use

msse for example.

I don't usually raise my voice but to me its a bit risky to show off.

We are blind! not dumb and retarded idiots.

We should never show off, showing off is what people do to hide

themselves, and to look cool and to hide the fact they suck.

I had a friend that used to do that and he was hard to get on with.

We need to be accepted as we are first and foremost.

If we showoff we are looking cheap, and that could get us treated different.

If I am getting this wrongly please say, this after all is only text.

By all means show but not show off or at least don't flaunt.

Even if its a good skill, I do do things and people are impressed, but

I don't brag it to the entire universe unless I know it will be excepted.

That does not include the entire net its just not a good thing to take.

Showing off could be a risky business.

 

 

 

On 3/02/2017 8:52 p.m., David Moore wrote:

> Hi all,

> There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,

> David Moore

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

> From: Gene

> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

> On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

> I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Gene

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

> On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

> In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

> Gene

> There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

> If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point.

> I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Antony Stone

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think

> we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move

> the mouse pointer around.

> The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an

> object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.

> Antony.

> On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

>> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if

>> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of

>> pixels.

 

 

 


Re: internet fax?

 

I found an accessible web fax service after some digging. I would just rather send a fax over the internet rather than argueing with the company or fuss with sending something in the mail. If anybody wants the link it is below.

https://www.myfax.com/free/

To recieve, I use E Fax. Microsoft word 2016 takes care of my usual PDF needs.


Re: how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I have replaced line with Underscore.
You cannot use the language difference in letters though as when you change the language of the system this also gets put right in nvda and its symbols for that language as well.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <@smeveriss>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick


I do think to be brootally honest nvda can never please everyone symbol wise.
For example apostrifee or tick.
Full stop as it is here or period as it is in the us, then again period is used as a time measurement.
So a period could be an end char.
A dot well I am unsure about that but that could also be that way to who knows.
I am unsure while the exclamation is bang though.
Saying this, underline has been told to me as line in nvda's case, underline, and underscore.
a dash is a hyfen or a quoted dash symbol.
In most countries western wise the h is just h, I have worked with people in england and the h while still said as h is pronounced with the h in h actually as "ha"
so haich.
I also know in holland where some of my family come from the g and also the h are pronounced differently I know g is a "hcha" type thing like someone snorting so its all different.
We have the symbol editer if you really want to put in your symbols I think nvda does a good job putting things in to be honest.
Saying that I really do want the ability by default or with a checkbox for the full stop to be pronounced with full stop, period or dot, exclamation should be pronounced as such or exclaim not bang.
Underscore should be underline not line or at least give people the choice.
Its also synth based.
Some sapi synths I use not scansoft ones, but some I have will not announce punctuation at all.
ie 3,000 would be 3 pause 000 and you wouldn't know.
There is no uniform way.
Look what was done with espeak ng, I really hate it that the ed announcement and a few things don't sound like old espeak and while I could keep replacing the data files, its developed to a point where while ed is still eeed its to the point where its about the only thing which is screwed up and I have got used to it.
I do think that different dialects of english should have their own symbol definitions, the default probably should emulate things we are used to but there isn't anything wrong as such.



On 3/02/2017 7:43 p.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Simon,



I don't mind that NVDA says "tick" instead of apostrophe. I'm also a fan of
efficient reading and don't want to hear extra syllables.



Rosemarie



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Simon
Jaeger
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick



Hi,

You can find this in NVDA menu > preferences > punctuation / symbol
pronunciation. Make sure you consider whether you really want three extra
syllables every time you encounter this symbol though. I'm a big fan of
efficient reading, and that's the main reason I haven't changed mine back.
you get used to it pretty quickly. Hope this helps.





Simon



On 2017-02-02 10:33, Dennis L wrote:

Hi, how do I get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick.






Re: Microsoft speech AP says "nevada2 for the letters "NV"I

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Oh yes this Sappi default is a real issue in the UK. Any post code ending in NY says New York. I've even heard some of the stand alone scan and read machines doing this with almost any conceivable abbreviation for anything that matches their pattern no matter where it crops up.
I'm also fed up with I think its pt being said as pint, St being said as saint when its street.
Mind you Espeak is not immune from this kind of thing.
A lot of documents and companies refer to us as VI people nowadays so I do have to think when Espeak says Roman 6 people all the time.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft speech AP says "nevada2 for the letters "NV"I


HI,



I'm using NVDA 2016.4 with Windows 10 on a desktop PC and Office 2016.



I'm using the Eloquence voice in Microsoft API version 4 and it says the
name of an American State for certain combinations of capitalised letters.
This is annoying because instead of saying "N V access" it says "Nevada
access". In Excel, it is particularly annoying with cell references like
"AK5" which is the label for column 37 on the fifth row it says "Alaska 5".



How can I stop this behaviour





All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...








Re: how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Depends what you are used to I suppose, but I prefer it being more verbose since I can always move on and truncate it.

I find its a lot easier when trying to show people what to expect as tick and bang and number are pretty alien descriptors in the UK..
Likewise semi is usually greeted by semi what?
grin
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick


Hi, Simon,



I don't mind that NVDA says "tick" instead of apostrophe. I'm also a fan of
efficient reading and don't want to hear extra syllables.



Rosemarie



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Simon
Jaeger
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick



Hi,

You can find this in NVDA menu > preferences > punctuation / symbol
pronunciation. Make sure you consider whether you really want three extra
syllables every time you encounter this symbol though. I'm a big fan of
efficient reading, and that's the main reason I haven't changed mine back.
you get used to it pretty quickly. Hope this helps.





Simon



On 2017-02-02 10:33, Dennis L wrote:

Hi, how do I get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick.






Re: controlling the mouse?

David Moore
 

Hi Shaun,

I think you are talking to me, David. I am the one who talked about forming that visual picture. However, I totally agree with you Shaun! I have sighted friends using key commands, and they agree that it is much faster. I have shown people how to do things in computer labs, and I did two key commands and had them going. Sighted only know that mouse, and they are lost and fool around and try for an hour to find something. I am 50, so the DOS days were the most exciting time for me. Wow, I helped supervisors where I worked, because they did not know the DOS commands; therefore, they could not use a computer. I had the DOS commands memorized, so I had high up supervisors coming to me for help using their computers LOLOL! I like to get people thinking. There is the problem on the job with telling your boss what you are trying to do with your screen reader. That is why it is good to be able to translate from mouse to key commands and the other way around. We need to tell our boss words like that we are trying to click. If we tell a co-worker that we are trying to get the applications key working, they will not know what we are talking about. We should know that the applications brings up the same context menu as the right click does. We then can say right click instead of applications key and so on. That is just a small point I am trying to get across. However, the sighted could learn a lot from the blind, and I make sure they learn from me. The computer is a grand machine, because we can control it in so many different ways. I agree as well, that the sighted are using more and more of what the blind use, like e-books, and audio books to listen to while they are driving. Talking to a device is becoming very universal, that is true. Many CEO's are talking to their computers, because they do not have time to type. Take care, Shaun, I really enjoyed your well thought out post. This has been fun. I would like to talk about tearing computers apart all day. Shaun, my email is:

Jesusloves1966@...

Give me a shout, I would really like to talk with you.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 4:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I half aggree with you jean.

Being that I work with tech, I am always translating the commands from

mice to keyboards, sometimes the mouse works sometimes it flat out doesn't.

I rarely use it as much as I should.

I do know that in some ways a touch pad is easier.

In fact a cheap no frills logitech pad is barely 20 bucks here which is

cheaper than the cheapest mouse which is 30-40 bucks for a basic one here.

Ofcause these pads are self contained.

Ie you plug it in, and windows tries to find what it is.

It triggers it to then somehow go online and get the drivers for itself

and install itself so its either got drivers in firmware or knows where

online to get those drivers.

Once those are installed the firmware and drivers will autoupdate

themselves.

To be honest, if I did what a blindy would do I wouldn't use windows,

just dos, I wouldn't use anything bar a keynote or jaws because that was

what I was taught.

In most cases we can use most things as a sighted would do, we do use

more shortcuts which can be an advantage but its still the sighted way

of doing things.

Gaming we still have a bit to go mouse wise but if you really want to be

serious there are joysticks and game pads anyway.

The idea of the old mouse is changing and thats a good thing.

TTs and voice recognition are also more excepted.

Even screen reading to some extent is still accepted.

Ofcause anything to graphical is still a problem but with acception with

most security software and some video converting and recording apps most

stuff does work to some extent.

I actually think it needs to be the other way round, the sighted should

do more things the blind way.

For example how many people do you know or have been seen/ heard by you

hitting the wrong key or going all round the screen.

For the blind person we know what to do and we just do it and it works!

On the flip side we can miss things so take your pick.

For me as long as the system boots, and I get sound I can service

computers with a sound card, a usb headset, and a keyboard and have no

screen unless something hoses itself fully.

In an extreme version of this about 15 years back when we had win 98

going xp, my brother had a system we decided to clear the dust out of

with an air compresser.

We have gotten a bit better with this, but the last time we managed to

blast several chips off the main board.

The unit was old anyway, however it just stopped booting and when it

did, all video stopped.

I was able to get the data backed up to several cds and transfer it over.

If I needed sight, I'd have to take it to our friendly computer fix it

guy, and he would have to recover the drives or something.

This would take more time and cost more cash.

In addition I have had it where repair shops have done bad things to

systems, ie loaded them with malware and offers, not cleared themselves

up, etc, etc.

Anyway I had the experience where they charged for backup and transfer

and when we tried to nagotiate, all the drives, both backup and primary

were reformatted, they refused to aknowledge the issue we were having

and all data including backups were scrubbed.

The company used went bust shortly after and granted this was an extreme

case but it was a lot faster and in that case I was happy to not be sighted.

I can slso via standard shortcuts get access to things faster than the

sighted.

I think the sighted are in some ways more blind than the blind are sighted.

They read a manual and well if it doesn't work they go crying to support.

I never recieved training as such, I branched out by looking and seeing

what things did.

True I did end up destroying and rebuilding my unit several times but I

got to know what I needed.

That concept plus a lot of others are gone with windows, and later tech

but you get the idea.

Mainstream has come a long while to when I was a boy, and so I just

can't fully agree with your statement.

I do think in the end you need to use your gut and see what happens.

If I did everything the blind way, I wouldn't be online, my training

wasn't to use modern computers.

 

 

 

On 3/02/2017 9:07 p.m., Gene wrote:

> I am not a sighted person.  I do things in the best way I know for a blind person to do them.  If a technique a sighted person uses serves me better than another, I'll use it.  If a technique that works better for me as a blind person works better, I'll use it.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: jesusloves1966@...

> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 1:52 AM

> To: Gene ; nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: RE: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> Hi all,

> There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,

> David Moore

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

> From: Gene

> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

> On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

>   I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

>   Gene

>   ----- Original Message -----

>   From: Gene

>   Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

>   To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>   Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

>   Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash.

>   Gene

>   ----- Original Message -----

>   From: Travis Siegel

>   Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

>   To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>   Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

>   The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

>   On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

>     In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

>     Gene

>     There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

>     If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point.

>     I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage.

>     Gene

>     ----- Original Message -----

>     From: Antony Stone

>     Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

>     To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>     Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

>     If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think

>     we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move

>     the mouse pointer around.

>     The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an

>     object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.

>     Antony.

>     On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

>     > I would find this mouse movement more exciting if

>     > the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of

>     > pixels.

>     --

>     All generalisations are inaccurate.

>                                                        Please reply to the list;

>                                                              please *don't* CC me.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 


Re: how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Since we don't what you changed its hard to advise.
Basically the first instance is the character and the second is what you want it to say when its encountered. Then there are various options as to level and in what context its spoken etc. If you leave the second blank or remove the original it won't work of course.
Brian

bglists@...
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis L" <dennisl1982@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick


How do I change it I somehow don't see it in the symbles list now. I
changed it and didn't do something right.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Simon
Jaeger
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 1:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick



Hi,

You can find this in NVDA menu > preferences > punctuation / symbol
pronunciation. Make sure you consider whether you really want three extra
syllables every time you encounter this symbol though. I'm a big fan of
efficient reading, and that's the main reason I haven't changed mine back.
you get used to it pretty quickly. Hope this helps.





Simon



On 2017-02-02 10:33, Dennis L wrote:

Hi, how do I get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick.






Re: how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

However you can interrupt it, so there is not any real problem. Tick is a stupid thing as it means little left tick and right tick are also there and hence one does need to come up with aliases for maor than you think. I have changed bang to exclamation, number to hash and many many more that suit myself in UK English including putting greater and lesser into a different category to stop quoted text from saying greater before each line.#

I have also expanded simi to semi colon and bullets to bullet 1 2 etc to let me know they are not the same kind of bullet.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Jaeger" <simon@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick


Hi,

You can find this in NVDA menu > preferences > punctuation / symbol
pronunciation. Make sure you consider whether you really want three
extra syllables every time you encounter this symbol though. I'm a big
fan of efficient reading, and that's the main reason I haven't changed
mine back. you get used to it pretty quickly. Hope this helps.



Simon


On 2017-02-02 10:33, Dennis L wrote:

Hi, how do I get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick.


Re: how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Just alter it in the punctuation dialogue it has to be easy even I have done this and more. It would of course be really cool if this file could be saved and swapped between users to stop having to do the laborious alterations on every machine one at a time.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis L" <dennisl1982@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 6:33 PM
Subject: [nvda] how to get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick


Hi, how do I get NVDA to say Apostrophe instead of tick.


Re: Important announcement: nvda-kr.org will become part of history from February 15th onwards

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I don't quite get why the change. This sounds like a complication rather than anything else, and I think it will confuse most users.


Not that I use it for obvious reasons for Korean things, but it seemed to me that if you wanted to personalise things having subsets of pages on the same server name would make it all a lot easier for maintaining links and things like that. also many no doubt have the old addresses bookmarked.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <@joslee>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important announcement: nvda-kr.org will become part of history from February 15th onwards


Hi,

It'll be josephsl.net. I'm moving things here and there, and once the
tutorials section is ready, I'll send out a new link.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill
Dengler
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 10:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important announcement: nvda-kr.org will become part of
history from February 15th onwards



Where will your NVDA tutorials be hosted now?



Thanks,

Bill

On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:05 PM, Joseph Lee <@joslee
<mailto:@joslee> > wrote:



Ladies and gentlemen,



For the past four years, the <http://nvda-kr.org/> nvda-kr.org website was
not only the home of an informational website for NVDA users in Korea, but
also served as a venue for announcements and archives of NVDA Users and
Developers Conference (NVDACon). During NVDACon Korea held last August, I
and other Korean users felt that it is time to let users in Korea manage
their own community website, hence <http://nvda.kr/> nvda.kr website was
born. In order to reduce confusion for users, I hereby announce that
<http://nvda-kr.org/> nvda-kr.org will become part of history from February
15th onwards, to be replaced by a more personal website. The page with
information on NVDACon will be hosted from a brand new website just for
NvDACon (more on that will be announced by Derek Riemer, chair of the
NVDACon International organizing committee). In regards to certain add-ons
that receives updates from <http://nvda-kr.org/> nvda-kr.org (namely
certain versions of StationPlaylist Studio and Windows 10 App Essentials),
please update to latest versions of those add-ons.



Thank you for your support for <http://nvda-kr.org/> nvda-kr.org for the
past four years. It was a pleasure to serve the NVDA community via this
website, and I look forward to serving this community via a new website.
Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph






Re: displaying file type information?

 

What I tend to do since I have a lot of sounds is find what works what won't work, etc.
I then put the sounds I think should go for the project, ofcause I need to write down what I may use and put those sounds in a folder then I just have to put them together.
With over 60 gb of sfx its the only way to do it.

On 3/02/2017 10:21 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
I think its very very important to know this info, as it all becomes
important when many sound editors or recorders are being used.
I'm sure I've managed it though to my shame I have to say I've created a
non music type folder called sound where I put all my in work stuff as
it is a much simpler display.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Vogel" <@britechguy>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] displaying file type information?


Robert,

Even with "Hide extensions for known file types" selected, the Music
folder has special display options. Are you really interested in the
actual extension, e.g., mp3, of your music files? If so I'll dig into
this more, but the default view for music displays other columns that
are generally of far more interest to most users.
--
*Brian*

I don't find an uninformed hatred a "principled position" that I need to
respect in any way.

~ *Ellen Evans * , soc.motss , 11/6/2004




Re: displaying file type information?

 

Even in win7, while most folders display the way I'd like there are cases where I have had to adjust things after which they do stay.
Its just the way of the universe, automation is overrated and we should be aware of that.

On 3/02/2017 10:18 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
I find that the make all folders look like this has gone and seems to
now suggest of this type so this often means going around many slightly
different folder types and doing it for each which I found a bit of a
laborious job, just how many types of folder are there?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message ----- From: "nasrin khaksar"
<nasrinkhaksar3@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] displaying file type information?


hi.
find folder options.
in the view tab, unchek Hide extensions for known file types-
hope that helps and God bless you!

On 2/2/17, Robert Kingett <@blindjourno> wrote:
using windows 10 could someone tell me how to make windows display the
file type in all windows? when I go into my music folder it does not
show the file type information. In my documents, for example, I can
right arrow twice and it tells me the file type




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org





Re: displaying file type information?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think its very very important to know this info, as it all becomes important when many sound editors or recorders are being used.
I'm sure I've managed it though to my shame I have to say I've created a non music type folder called sound where I put all my in work stuff as it is a much simpler display.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <@britechguy>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] displaying file type information?


Robert,

Even with "Hide extensions for known file types" selected, the Music folder has special display options. Are you really interested in the actual extension, e.g., mp3, of your music files? If so I'll dig into this more, but the default view for music displays other columns that are generally of far more interest to most users.
--
*Brian*

I don't find an uninformed hatred a "principled position" that I need to respect in any way.

~ *Ellen Evans * , soc.motss , 11/6/2004


Re: NVDA conflict with hot keys with Lonovo Laptop

 

I also with sighted help or if I can via their setups set this to normal.
I do confess though if you can afford a gaming board or something with external media functions especially a mute button, play stop rewind etc and a volume wheel that that can be good.
Its also good say if windows puts that message about audio not running when it is.
You just toggle the wheel a little and it works.
It can have issues with volume at times but its always good to have a hardwired control especially in the days where mostly volume controls like a lot of things are in past tence.

On 3/02/2017 10:14 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
I think many laptops now reconfigure some keys for media use rather then
anything else. Often you can turn this off with a key sequence but may
need to put them on for screen adjustments and audio adjustments. Kind
of like a media pc used to do.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA conflict with hot keys with Lonovo Laptop


I'm not sure what commands you are referring to. I know of no shortcut
keys that are used in a laptop per se. Applications installed may have
shortcut keys, but we need examples of a short cut key or two and what
they do. At this point, we don't know if you are describing short cut
keys or the modified fn interface used by a lot of computer manufacturers.

Also, I don't urge use of the laptop commands. I think the best way to
approach the matter is to say that you may want to look at the laptop
layout and see if you want to use those commands. I don't use the
laptop layout. You don't have a lot of extra commands. You have
different commands for doing the same things. If the laptop layout had
extra commands, those using the desktop layout would be at a
disadvantage and there would be great unhappiness among users if that
were the case. The reason there is a laptop layout is because many
laptops don't have a numpad. If I had a laptop without a numpad, I
probably wouldn't switch to the laptop layout. I have no desire to
learn another layout. I'd probably buy a USB numpad.

Gene
----- Original Message -----


From: David Moore
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 5:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA conflict with hot keys with Lonovo Laptop


Hi Michelle,

You can definitely use the laptop keyboard layout on any keyboard. You
can set NVDA and JAWS to the laptop layout even if you are using a
desktop computer. That way, you have all of the extra commands that the
laptop layout can give you. You can definitely use the laptop layout if
you want, and maybe your hot keys for the computer would not conflict
with NVDA or JAWS. Take care, Michelle. I just wanted you to know that.
I do not know who would advise you that you could not use the laptop
layout, because you are using a full-sized keyboard. Let us know how
that works for you.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Michelle's Home Emails
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 6:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA conflict with hot keys with Lonovo Laptop



Hi there



Michelle Stevens here,



Can anyone tell me how do I turn off hotkeys that is set for Lonovo for
my laptop. They are conflicting with NVDA and also Jaws when I use Jaws.
Not at the same time (smile.)



When I had my Toshiba back in 2008 I disabled the default hotkeys in
diskdoctor. Not sur

How to do this on my Lonovo. Because I am using a full sized laptop
keyboard I have been advised to use desktop layout for my screen readers.



Kind regard

Michelle



Sent from my iPhone












Re: displaying file type information?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I find that the make all folders look like this has gone and seems to now suggest of this type so this often means going around many slightly different folder types and doing it for each which I found a bit of a laborious job, just how many types of folder are there?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "nasrin khaksar" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] displaying file type information?


hi.
find folder options.
in the view tab, unchek Hide extensions for known file types-
hope that helps and God bless you!

On 2/2/17, Robert Kingett <@blindjourno> wrote:
using windows 10 could someone tell me how to make windows display the
file type in all windows? when I go into my music folder it does not
show the file type information. In my documents, for example, I can
right arrow twice and it tells me the file type




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: internet fax?

 

We hardly use true fax anyway.
Thats dead now.
We do have fax machines on our printers.
Faxes can be emails in their own right and can become emails.
I still fax things like priscriptions and the like, but in most cases its emails or a dropbox link or something.
If properly set up your modern multifunction print scan fax should process the fax to a word document or straight to email if you let it.
If it does process to graphics and imaged pdfs, they can be ocred.
If its your faxes then they should be in a format you can read.
If its a company and its urgent, then the company should be asked if they can send via email.
If not, then sent via postal mail.
Paper can be scanned with less fuss than a fax could but its hardly used now.

On 3/02/2017 10:04 p.m., Brian's Mail list account wrote:
The problem I always had with internet faxing was that replies arrived
as graphic files and then you had to OCR them.
To me, Fax these days is very seldom needed as most companies now use
emails or web forms etc.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Kingett" <@blindjourno>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 2:17 AM
Subject: [nvda] internet fax?


Is there a web service that is accessible with NVDA that will let me
send faxes online?





Re: controlling the mouse?

 

Hay man, I actually am slightly offended about it.
We are blind not poor helpless retarded idiots much as some sightlings may think of us.
I say this as politely as I can.
It is beneath me to show off.
We should be trying to intergrate.
I have an aunt that when seeing me doing things ie with my special tech, oh he can use a screen reader for the blind good for him.
Its not that I have something to read the screen, but that I am first and foremost a blind person using a computer.
Ie I have a cane, oh, the poor dumb helpless blind can walk!
I havn't as yet figured out golden curser, but the keyboard has a major advantage over the sighted.
Who cares what they think anyway.
At any case we should be to every extent possible be trying to include ourselves in making them make as much accessible.
If we show off to much they may stop and we will be in more trouble.
Most security software is just not fully accessible, its why I still use msse for example.
I don't usually raise my voice but to me its a bit risky to show off.
We are blind! not dumb and retarded idiots.
We should never show off, showing off is what people do to hide themselves, and to look cool and to hide the fact they suck.
I had a friend that used to do that and he was hard to get on with.
We need to be accepted as we are first and foremost.
If we showoff we are looking cheap, and that could get us treated different.
If I am getting this wrongly please say, this after all is only text.
By all means show but not show off or at least don't flaunt.
Even if its a good skill, I do do things and people are impressed, but I don't brag it to the entire universe unless I know it will be excepted.
That does not include the entire net its just not a good thing to take.
Showing off could be a risky business.

On 3/02/2017 8:52 p.m., David Moore wrote:
Hi all,
There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

I didn't say that. I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor. I also said that the left click command is numpad slash. Just numpad slash by itself.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse. I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination. That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with. Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.


On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page. No such commands are given.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on? The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know. For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated. For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question. I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.


On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse. That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

Gene

There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know. But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review. Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find. And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something. But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash. Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash. I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command. In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object. You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point.

I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage. But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Antony Stone
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
pixels.


Re: NVDA conflict with hot keys with Lonovo Laptop

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think many laptops now reconfigure some keys for media use rather then anything else. Often you can turn this off with a key sequence but may need to put them on for screen adjustments and audio adjustments. Kind of like a media pc used to do.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA conflict with hot keys with Lonovo Laptop


I'm not sure what commands you are referring to. I know of no shortcut keys that are used in a laptop per se. Applications installed may have shortcut keys, but we need examples of a short cut key or two and what they do. At this point, we don't know if you are describing short cut keys or the modified fn interface used by a lot of computer manufacturers.

Also, I don't urge use of the laptop commands. I think the best way to approach the matter is to say that you may want to look at the laptop layout and see if you want to use those commands. I don't use the laptop layout. You don't have a lot of extra commands. You have different commands for doing the same things. If the laptop layout had extra commands, those using the desktop layout would be at a disadvantage and there would be great unhappiness among users if that were the case. The reason there is a laptop layout is because many laptops don't have a numpad. If I had a laptop without a numpad, I probably wouldn't switch to the laptop layout. I have no desire to learn another layout. I'd probably buy a USB numpad.

Gene
----- Original Message -----


From: David Moore
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 5:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA conflict with hot keys with Lonovo Laptop


Hi Michelle,

You can definitely use the laptop keyboard layout on any keyboard. You can set NVDA and JAWS to the laptop layout even if you are using a desktop computer. That way, you have all of the extra commands that the laptop layout can give you. You can definitely use the laptop layout if you want, and maybe your hot keys for the computer would not conflict with NVDA or JAWS. Take care, Michelle. I just wanted you to know that. I do not know who would advise you that you could not use the laptop layout, because you are using a full-sized keyboard. Let us know how that works for you.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Michelle's Home Emails
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 6:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA conflict with hot keys with Lonovo Laptop



Hi there



Michelle Stevens here,



Can anyone tell me how do I turn off hotkeys that is set for Lonovo for my laptop. They are conflicting with NVDA and also Jaws when I use Jaws. Not at the same time (smile.)



When I had my Toshiba back in 2008 I disabled the default hotkeys in diskdoctor. Not sur

How to do this on my Lonovo. Because I am using a full sized laptop keyboard I have been advised to use desktop layout for my screen readers.



Kind regard

Michelle



Sent from my iPhone