Date   

avg zen and antivirus

Richard Kuzma
 

Good morning,

I have avg antivirus / internet security and now for some reason I recently got something called avg zen.

I am trying to renw my licence and apparently you cant put in a key in this version.

Can anyone help.

rich


Re: NVDA not announcing bullets when added

Dan Thompson
 

Thank you very much for the valuable fixes.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 6:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA not announcing bullets when added

 

What kind of bullets are you using?  If I type * something on a new line, it turns the asterisk into a "bullet" and that gets announced by NVDA at all punctuation levels except "none".

 

If you use a - to start your list items then you need puncutation level set to "most" or "all" for it to be read (NVDA+P to cycle through the options).

 

Make sure you have "lists" checked in the document formatting dialog (NVDA+CONTROL+D then press l until you get to "lists").

 

It announces bullets as you move through list items, and when you press enter to add a new bullet point.  The only time it doesn't announce the list bullet for me is if I navigate around a document and I have a lonely bullet on its own at the end of a list.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Dan Thompson <dmt031073@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I was trying to teach adding of bullets on the fly and NVDA will not

Speak that there is  a bullet.

I have tried with most and all punctuation selected and the result is the same.  I also looked under “document formatting” and could find anything that would make this type of symbol be announced.

Does anyone else have this issue and if so can it be changed?

Thanks for your help.

subscribe to Friday Finds by sending a blank email with "subscribe dan's tips" in the subject line. To

dmt031073@...

subscribe to "Hotspot With God" daily devotion by sending a blank message with "subscribe devotion" in the subject line to

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“This is the way of peace: Overcome evil with good, and falsehood with truth, and hatred with love.” —Peace Pilgrim

 

“God is the mind that imagines physical reality. We are each like a cell in that mind.” —Peter Shepherd

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: NVDA not announcing bullets when added

Dan Thompson
 

Ah, I never thought about the application/context menu.  Thanks for reminding me of that.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christo Vorster
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA not announcing bullets when added

 

Hi Dan

 

I just tested the bullets insertion.

 

After selecting, in Word 2010, I press the application key and go down to “bullets”. After entering, NVDA does announce the bullets I inserted. True, when entering on “bullets” there is no speech response, but then, you must know that you selected to enter on bullets.

 

There are definitely other ways to insert bullets, but to me the above mentioned is definitely the easiest.

 

Regards

 

Christo (Worcester, South Africa)

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Thompson
Sent: Thursday, 16 February 2017 2:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA not announcing bullets when added

 

Hi all,

I was trying to teach adding of bullets on the fly and NVDA will not

Speak that there is  a bullet.

I have tried with most and all punctuation selected and the result is the same.  I also looked under “document formatting” and could find anything that would make this type of symbol be announced.

Does anyone else have this issue and if so can it be changed?

Thanks for your help.

subscribe to Friday Finds by sending a blank email with "subscribe dan's tips" in the subject line. To

dmt031073@...

subscribe to "Hotspot With God" daily devotion by sending a blank message with "subscribe devotion" in the subject line to

dmt031073@...

“This is the way of peace: Overcome evil with good, and falsehood with truth, and hatred with love.” —Peace Pilgrim

 

“God is the mind that imagines physical reality. We are each like a cell in that mind.” —Peter Shepherd

 

 


This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

 


Roman algarisms

Walmir Schultz <wsautodidata@...>
 

Hi,
How can i instruct NVDA to announce "DI" as "D" "I" instead of 501 and "CDI" as "C" "D" "I" instead of 401?
Or, still better, how can I set NVDA to forget roman numbers altogether?


Re: strange issue that I can't run down.

ken lawrence
 

yeah think I know that might have happened.  sound card was working could hear the moderator tell me that he had cleared me. when I hit alt plus ctrl plus delete espeak worked.  I think the kitchen game which uses sappi five voices and NVDA which is using dectalk also as a sappi five may have conflicted I had a similar issue when they were both using the same voice but not with two different voices.  I also know that at least one other member of that regular chat is using NVDA but not sure if he is using the same voice on both.  he is using a different language on the regular NVDA than what kitchen golf uses  one day we were playing and one player noticed some extra verbiage.  he has his NVDA set for spanish when he hit the space bar to make a shot the voice said Espacio will have to see if he's ever run into the same issue.  the rest of the group is using jaws so there is likely no conflict.  think what I'll try is toggle speech off in NVDA and see if it happens again.      


Re: Shut Down, etc

The Gamages
 

Hello,

Having got sighted help, it seems that the keyboard will not move down
to the power button, two keyboards have been tried, theis used to work
for me when I first got "10, so it seems that it is a Microsoft issue,
not NVDA, having tried with Jaws the same thing is evident, the mouse
can operate the power button.

It's alright to use alt F4 etc, but this issue needs to be sorted, where
will it end otherwise? What other keystrokes will disappear in the
updates that Microsoft make? sighted people use the keyboard as well.
Does anyone know how to get in touch with Microsoft and get some
response? I could stand outside the back door and shout I suppose,
[lol].



Best Regards, Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 10:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Shut Down, etc

I agree. There do seem to be, from the sighted point of view, quite a
lot of
options on screen we cannot get at aas a mouse user can. Not sure if
this
was some deliberate act or just an oversight in design, but the alt/f4
is my
preferred method. However the next snap seems to have issues sometimes
with
both this menu and some context menus and the nvda menu. A reboot of
nvda
seems to restore the menus.
Sadly nobody else could duplicate this problem and I have my suspicions
that its some software I run that cocks up nvda next.
Brian

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Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Shut Down, etc


I use the alt F-4 method of shutting down. Both alt F-4 and windows x
are
fast.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rui
Fontes
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Shut Down, etc

In Windows 10 that don't work.

windows+X can be a good alternative.

Rui


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: P. Otter
Data: 16 de fevereiro de 2017 21:30
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] Shut Down, etc


hello ralf,
when you're in the desktop, press the windows key.
after that press 2 times uparrow.
you hear shutdown or something, press enter there.
now you can make the choice restart or close the computer or the
sleepmode.
succes!
paul o


----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Boersema
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 10:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] Shut Down, etc


Dear Folks,



My Windows 10 went through some kind of update and now my NVDA cannot
access
the Power button for shutting down or restarting, etc. I open the Start
menu, using the Windows key, then go to Navegation, using the tab key.
With
the down arrow I get down to the User Account button, but then it won’t
continue down to the Power button. Any suggestions?



Ralph


Re: Accessible HTML CSS Javascript editors.

slery <slerythema@...>
 

EdSharp

Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nika Tsiklauri
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 9:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Accessible HTML CSS Javascript editors.

Hi all, Can anyone suggest some accessible editors for html css and javascript? I have been using Notepad++, but I am interested if there's other better and accessible software for that purpose?
Thanks in advance.


Re: Lines with unknown characters aren't spoken

Anne Günther
 

Hi
I'm using nvda vocalizer. Tested it with espeak and things work fine there. *sigh*.
Guenni


Re: Lines with unknown characters aren't spoken

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Guenni,

Does this happen in a particular program (e.g., Microsoft Word or Firefox)?  And it's the whole line not being read, not just the particular character?

Regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Anne Günther <ag82lca@...> wrote:
Hi
This might be already a well-known problem, but here goes anyway.
When scrolling through line by line, lines that contain unknown character symbols aren't spoken at all.
That usually concerns lines with emojies.
Any suggestions what to do about that?
I'm using nvda 2016.4 and windows1-0.
Guenni







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Lines with unknown characters aren't spoken

Tyler Spivey
 

What are you using for a synth?
Does this also happen with eSpeak?

On 2/19/2017 12:43 PM, Anne Günther wrote:
Hi
This might be already a well-known problem, but here goes anyway.
When scrolling through line by line, lines that contain unknown
character symbols aren't spoken at all.
That usually concerns lines with emojies.
Any suggestions what to do about that?
I'm using nvda 2016.4 and windows1-0.
Guenni



Lines with unknown characters aren't spoken

Anne Günther
 

Hi
This might be already a well-known problem, but here goes anyway.
When scrolling through line by line, lines that contain unknown character symbols aren't spoken at all.
That usually concerns lines with emojies.
Any suggestions what to do about that?
I'm using nvda 2016.4 and windows1-0.
Guenni


Re: strange issue that I can't run down.

Gene
 

Not every problem is any more than a rare occurrence.  Is the game self-voicing?  Maybe the voice crashed.  What version of Windows are you using?  There probably is a utility that will tell you what crashed today.  This or that event may occur and mean nothing other than at some point, x or y may occur.  If the problem continues, that's another matter.  If you turn every isolated incident into a major event or cause for worry, you won't have a moment's peace. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 1:35 PM
Subject: [nvda] strange issue that I can't run down.

Hi list ken here something very very frustrating happened today during a voicechat.  was playing golf with the jim kitchen games during a hole in fact as the voice was speaking telling me how far to shoot all at once it stopped talking in mid sentence no sound came out.  at first thought my speaker had died but when switched off no sound out of the headset.  my microphone was keyed everything was running.  when my key was cleared heard the moderator say he had cleared me I heard his voice.  in other words everything was working. I had to sign out and sign back in.  NVDA the kiteche game and talking communities were all operating.  signed out signed back in and thanks to my computer ken shoots a zero on golf today my game was lost on the signout.  so what happened everything was working and microphone was keyed and I could still hear sounds.  is it NVDA is it the soundcard is it an update needed on the soundcard


strange issue that I can't run down.

ken lawrence
 

Hi list ken here something very very frustrating happened today during a voicechat.  was playing golf with the jim kitchen games during a hole in fact as the voice was speaking telling me how far to shoot all at once it stopped talking in mid sentence no sound came out.  at first thought my speaker had died but when switched off no sound out of the headset.  my microphone was keyed everything was running.  when my key was cleared heard the moderator say he had cleared me I heard his voice.  in other words everything was working. I had to sign out and sign back in.  NVDA the kiteche game and talking communities were all operating.  signed out signed back in and thanks to my computer ken shoots a zero on golf today my game was lost on the signout.  so what happened everything was working and microphone was keyed and I could still hear sounds.  is it NVDA is it the soundcard is it an update needed on the soundcard


Re: NVDA Accessible Database Software

Jacob Kruger
 

Brian, there are ways to sort of automatically convert a MSAccess application into compiled executables, but, really not sure how well they'll work:

http://tinyurl.com/gt9nnzy


But, my focus area is web application development, and, the last time I used .mdb files was a long time ago, and, merely used them as data source, while interface was still based on either ASP, or PHP.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2017-02-19 14:26, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Well the current database was written as a series of visual basic macros in a Microsoft access shell.
The point is that its a talking newspaper database which allows one to ad/remove people suspend people for certain dates, holidays etc, log in pouches, and print the bar coded labels was we scan them in when they return. We also let it create a txt log file with those pouches no held locally or returned via the post and it gives a nuumber of pouches so we know how many ram sticks to be copied each week.
It has some inaccessibilinaccessible parts. Access edit areas do not speak when you cursor or delete things from them, but can be tabbed to.
At present, we do not have an up to date version of the full access package, as it seems not to be part of standard ocffice these days. Our version is 2002, but the database can run under runtimes on later machines and versions of windows but the hacked visual basic does not do printer switching correctly or at all and cannot be edited on the new machine without a full version of access.
None of us have the abiilty to work with this level of programming. I write batch files but have not really got anywhere with visual basic or python since the indentation is hard to get right for me.

The database was written in what I call a tonka toy way, so anyone can work out how to use it, ie it plays files little wavs when user action is needed and one saying ok when all is well etc. So we have this person missed last week, press enter to clear, which make the database put this into a log. It may say at the end there are 25 users not logged, press yes to process no to stop.
Ifdf you press yes then you get the missing ones one at a time which allows manual looking for that pouch at the studio as we have several for each user. Obviously if you find it and hit yes then its logged no leaves it unlogged and hence in the final log file output. at any time during any logging it can print a new label for that user so we can fix faded and torn ones, including the text and the barcode.

Yes we have a bar code font which is just a coding of the number of the person in the database. they are not stored alphabetically.

We most certainly do not need a spreadsheet this would be far too hard to do without making errors. the current system is almost impossible to screw up as it won't allow people to do things they are not allowed to do.
Bear in mind we are all volunteers with mainly no computer literacy at all.


You can if you want look anyone up by either inserting part of the surname or their number into a find box and that will show when they last returned a pouch to save looking at the log files or paper logs.


It all works very well in XP but only it seems on the one laptop type we have. an attempt to port it to another newer dell still running xp fails with no printer defined for no known reason, which means one assumes that the way the driver is activated is hardware specific or maybe the thing looks this up in a registry entry or.ini file as the original database ran on windows 98.
However this is getting a bit off topic here, and all I was after was something I might be able to program in. This database was built from one I originally wrote when I could see on an old ZX spectrum from the ground up in basic. It worked well but of course could not do bar codes etc, though most of the rest is much the same except we used noises from the sound to indicate things not little wav files.

In that case all data was held in two linked arrays of several dimensions held in a ram disk during use and saved to disc when you needed to turn off.

Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Kruger" <jacob@blindza.co.za>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Accessible Database Software


Really depends on platform, database engine/format, etc. etc.


As in, what do you want to use the data for, do with it, etc.?


Ask since I am, primarily, a web application developer, working with PHP, MySQL, etc., and, for MySQL, besides working directly with the console/command line, I use the single-web-page admin interface, adminer, but, that runs against a localised dev. web server running here on my machine, either under XAMPP or WAMP web server implementations.


If you're talking about something similar to microsoft access database interface, which is accessible, then am not too sure about that side of it, but, what about something under iether oepnOffice or libreOffice?


And, haven't checked out MS Accessess myself for quite a long while, but, do at times work with excel spreadsheets?


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2017-02-18 12:15, Carlos wrote:
Hello All!

I know that this question has come up on list many times.

I would like to be able to create/process database files.

Is there any database software paid/free that is accessible with NVDA? I know that database software is so graphical in its nature that its controls are not accessible to screen readers! But, there has to be a way for the blind to be able to use database software for work/home purposes?

Hopefully, since the last time this question was asked someone has actually found NVDA database accessible software? Or, accessible database software that is accessible in any other screen reader?

Thank You! For all your recommendations!!!







jtg frustration

Joanne Michelle Stark
 

Anyone els having issues with logging into the blind gamers service through the NVDA menu to use this add-on? It’s for translating Japanese to English. Thanks for feedback. Not sure how to proceed. Reset password, typed everything in correctly, and I still get an error message. There does not appear to be a way to contact the developer via the blind gamers websige.


Re: Working with not accessible interfaces. Thoughts and question.

Alexey Zhelezov
 

Dear Brian,


I am sorry I could not clearly explain what I mean. I am new in the area. Probably the best way is working example, but the person I am working with is sleeping at the moment (he is in US) and I do not want publish completely untested staff.


But I can try to explain. Let say Windows Calculator is written without accessibility and without keyboard support. So while it is displayed as now, it can be operated by mouse only and NVDA say PANE when focusing it.

Than using the concept, someone with sight can define coordinates for digits and operations buttons and coordinates of the result string. Binding numerical and operational keys as gestures, add-on can click on corresponding buttons. After clicking and giving some time to update, result region is grabbed from the screen, passed to OCR and sent to speech. That way such calculator can be perceived as somehow accessible.

More complex elements like list boxes, check boxes, etc. can be defined the same way.


The concept is definitively not new. Clicking part has many incarnation, including an add-on for NVDA. OCR add-on for NVDA can grab and describe an image. What I could not find is a framework to use all that together. And my primary question either I just have not found it or it does not exist. Note that I know at least one big project for JAWS, CakeTalking, which partially use the concept, at least in part of recognizing some particular element states from graphics.


My answers to your questions.

The concept can work with particular software only and so will need an add-on per application. I mean it will not recognize arbitrary interface automatically, at least not before several experienced mathematicians and programmers work together several years.

I am not aware about any existing standard for that, my question was about the existence of it. From answers I guess it does not exist.

My current prototype is an add-on. But my experience with NVDA is still almost zero, so I do not know what is the best approach to represent virtual controls. May be Virtual Buffers, may be new handler. Controls should have persistent properties, at least the focus. Also recreating them all the time can be extremely system resources heavy. Everything I could find in NVDA so far is somehow underlying external objects oriented. Controls is my concept are completely artificial in that respect. So I am not excluding some changes in the core are required to make real integration. At the moment I just keep separate global objects and speakMessage directly. As I have mentioned before, the add-on is not even alpha, it is a prototype. 


I hope that clarify at least something.


Regards,

Alexey.




From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 1:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Working with not accessible interfaces. Thoughts and question.
 
You see the reason we are all a bit confused here is that the programs
mentioned in the first post would appear to not have any way to tell that
the images were controls, which is what the ocr add on cannot do either, it
can just detect words and help you move a cursor or mouse pointer to it. If
said program does not trigger an event to allow one to recognise what the
control actually does then you are still stuck.
 If the routine mentioned has somehow gotten around this impasse then yes we
need it if it can work on other software.
Some off the software you find on many web sites according to the sighted
looks windows like with buttons on the  screen, but to the screenreader it
may just say pane. these are the places where some kind of shortcut is
needed. If you are saying that there is a standard here which we are unaware
of and you have cracked it, then fine but if its only on just the one suite
of software its better put into a nvda add on for that suite of software,
rather than offering ait as a part of nvda itself. I just cannot get your
concept you are attempting to tell us about to be understandable.
 Brian

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Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexey Zhelezov" <azslow3@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Working with not accessible interfaces. Thoughts and
question.


Dear Pranav,


I understand that generic solution you describe can be useful. But that is
much more technically challenging then simple approach I have described.

The process can be divided into following steps: find interface elements in
the image, recognize the state and if required OCR that element, convert the
information into accessible element.

In my case the first step is not automatic. For mentioned music software
that make sense, these interfaces normally have fixed size and content. In
term of Windows programming, they are resource defined dialogs. Apart from
periodic layout changes, for example excluded Classic theme in Window 8,
once the definition is done it can be reused by everyone.

What you describe assumes the first step is automatic and generic. Modern
OCRs, using very complicated mathematic, have managed to locate and
recognize text peaces, blocks and up to some level the layout. Bringing that
up to the level of interface elements recognition is a huge step. The
problem is that most elements are not distinguishable even for people, for
example there is no difference in picture between several lines of text,
table with one column and a list box. First selected item in the list box is
the same as the header of the table. And so on. People use own experience,
intuition and sometimes even the documentation to find that something on the
screen is an interactive element. Programs help there changing mouse cursor
shape and colors. Still people skip for example links in web page, thinking
that is just highlighted static text. Teach computer to be smarter then
human is too challenging for me, at least not for one man project during
free time.


Reading static images is different. I think better processing of embedded
images is more like a future request for existing OCR add-on for NVDA.


Regards,

Alexey.


________________________________
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Pranav Lal
<pranav.lal@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 5:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Working with not accessible interfaces. Thoughts and
question.


Dear Alexey,



If you are referring to a generic solution that would OCR an inaccessible
interface, parse it into its constituent elements like list boxes, combo
boxes, buttons and allow NVDA to interact with it, then yes, this is
something we need. I am not a user of music software therefore cannot
comment on that but for arguments sake take a program like google earth. The
menus may work but what about grabbing the text on the screen? Similarly,
take images imbedded into Microsoft Word documents. I can extract them from
a file but cannot read the images in context.



In addition, take mind mapping programs such as freemind.



Pranav







Re: Working with not accessible interfaces. Thoughts and question.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

You see the reason we are all a bit confused here is that the programs mentioned in the first post would appear to not have any way to tell that the images were controls, which is what the ocr add on cannot do either, it can just detect words and help you move a cursor or mouse pointer to it. If said program does not trigger an event to allow one to recognise what the control actually does then you are still stuck.
If the routine mentioned has somehow gotten around this impasse then yes we need it if it can work on other software.
Some off the software you find on many web sites according to the sighted looks windows like with buttons on the screen, but to the screenreader it may just say pane. these are the places where some kind of shortcut is needed. If you are saying that there is a standard here which we are unaware of and you have cracked it, then fine but if its only on just the one suite of software its better put into a nvda add on for that suite of software, rather than offering ait as a part of nvda itself. I just cannot get your concept you are attempting to tell us about to be understandable.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexey Zhelezov" <azslow3@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Working with not accessible interfaces. Thoughts and question.


Dear Pranav,


I understand that generic solution you describe can be useful. But that is much more technically challenging then simple approach I have described.

The process can be divided into following steps: find interface elements in the image, recognize the state and if required OCR that element, convert the information into accessible element.

In my case the first step is not automatic. For mentioned music software that make sense, these interfaces normally have fixed size and content. In term of Windows programming, they are resource defined dialogs. Apart from periodic layout changes, for example excluded Classic theme in Window 8, once the definition is done it can be reused by everyone.

What you describe assumes the first step is automatic and generic. Modern OCRs, using very complicated mathematic, have managed to locate and recognize text peaces, blocks and up to some level the layout. Bringing that up to the level of interface elements recognition is a huge step. The problem is that most elements are not distinguishable even for people, for example there is no difference in picture between several lines of text, table with one column and a list box. First selected item in the list box is the same as the header of the table. And so on. People use own experience, intuition and sometimes even the documentation to find that something on the screen is an interactive element. Programs help there changing mouse cursor shape and colors. Still people skip for example links in web page, thinking that is just highlighted static text. Teach computer to be smarter then human is too challenging for me, at least not for one man project during free time.


Reading static images is different. I think better processing of embedded images is more like a future request for existing OCR add-on for NVDA.


Regards,

Alexey.


________________________________
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Pranav Lal <pranav.lal@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 5:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Working with not accessible interfaces. Thoughts and question.


Dear Alexey,



If you are referring to a generic solution that would OCR an inaccessible interface, parse it into its constituent elements like list boxes, combo boxes, buttons and allow NVDA to interact with it, then yes, this is something we need. I am not a user of music software therefore cannot comment on that but for arguments sake take a program like google earth. The menus may work but what about grabbing the text on the screen? Similarly, take images imbedded into Microsoft Word documents. I can extract them from a file but cannot read the images in context.



In addition, take mind mapping programs such as freemind.



Pranav


Re: NVDA Accessible Database Software

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes, I've written a longer description which I hope makes it plain, but since its only slightly nvda related I am mindfull not to hog things. I was just looking at the alternatives as its an area of computing I've not bothered with since my old 8 bit ground up writing of stuff days, when I had sight.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Travis Siegel" <tsiegel@softcon.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Accessible Database Software


What is your definition of accessible? There are lots and lots of databases that have no native interface, because they use the command line, but folks have written interfaces, (and you can too if so desired with enough programmingknowledge). Mysql, mariadb, firebird, are just a few. They're all opensource, and all completely accessible if you don't mind learning sql in order to be able to talk to them in a way they can understand. If however, you're asking about databases like ms Access, only with graphical interfaces, I can't help, because the only database I use is mysql, and custom php interfaces if they're on my own servers, or PHP my admin if they're hosted elsewhere. You need to be more specific about exactly what it is you're looking for, then folks on this list can narrow down the options for you.


On Sat, 18 Feb 2017, Carlos wrote:
Hello All!

I know that this question has come up on list many times.

I would like to be able to create/process database files.

Is there any database software paid/free that is accessible with NVDA? I know that database software is so graphical in its nature that its controls are not accessible to screen readers! But, there has to be a way for the blind to be able to use database software for work/home purposes?

Hopefully, since the last time this question was asked someone has actually found NVDA database accessible software? Or, accessible database software that is accessible in any other screen reader?

Thank You! For all your recommendations!!!


--
Carlos Gonzalez - Los Angeles, CA. - gmjc341961@gmail.com




Re: Databasees aand nvda

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Hi,not used that system I have to say. it seems to me that so many systems reinvent the wheel here.
Have a read of my last message and see if you think it can help us. The current one would probably work if we could sort out the visual basic script so it printed to the label pri enter without the problems that seem to bug the original one when it switches or rather does not switch printers!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Kuzma via Groups.Io" <rmkuzma=aol.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Databasees aand nvda


Good morning,
You may want to look at visual dbase
I was a dbase programmer before I lost my sight andused the dos version
extensively.
Recently in the last two years I have been using visual dbase.
The interface is not totally accessible, but I have been able to get around
things.
I program in notepad plus plus and compile the program with dbase and it
works perfectly.
I have been developing a barcode program to interface with the id mate
quest.
I can print barcodes and have a free font I can share with you if you with.
Feel free to email me off list at
rmkuzma@aol.com if you would like any more info.
Also, you can download a free thirty day trial of their software.
Thanks and let me know if you would like any more info.
Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 5:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Databasees aand nvda

Hi I'd rather like to write a database, but really need something nvda can
work with.

I am not only looking for the classic things of a database but I need it to
be able to switch printers to print bar codes and reports via a normal
printer in the right views. also report things either by saying a message
without having to navigate to it or play a sound file when a scanning action

matches some criteria for that user.
Does anything out of the box allow such easy configuration?
I don't do visual basic, or .net as they seem to call this environment
these days, so I'd prefer a kind of module parameter based approach.
Brian

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Re: Significant Area Of Excel Where Ribbons simply Make No Sense and Don't Work

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

In many ways when I could see the configurable tool bar was a good way to get at often used stuff, quite what the reasoning was to shove stuff into this ribbon thing is lost on me, personally.
Its first incarnation was when I first encountered winamp, which tended to have just the one pull down with bits off of it.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Significant Area Of Excel Where Ribbons simply Make No Sense and Don't Work


Thanks very much for this valuable information. Boy this is just what I
need!



On 2/18/2017 3:21 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Ron,

You are correct, and it is definitely a bug in Office (It works
exactly the same with no screen reader running). I have found one
workaround, which is when you hear NVDA read "split button", you know
the option opens a menu. While enter or space should work, if you
press alt+down arrow, it does open the menu.

Re items on the home ribbon, I have always had a bit of a concern with
the Home ribbon. After all, items on the other ribbons are more or
less logical (there are a few, ok a lot, you could argue, but bear
with me) - the Home ribbon, however, is purely what Microsoft THINK
people need access to more regularly.

I couldn't understand why half the Word home ribbon was taken up with
Styles when Word 2007 came out - after all, a good portion of Word
users still likely couldn't tell you what styles are, let alone use them.

Back to inserting rows and columns specifically, and I can give you
another way to do that as well:

CONTROL+SHIFT+= (CONTROL, SHIFT and EQUALS) or CONTROL+PLUS.

If you have one or more full rows selected (SHIFT+SPACEBAR btw) when
you press this, it will automatically insert one or more rows above
the selected rows (same number of rows as you have selected).

If you have one or more full columns selected (CONTROL+SPACEBAR for
that one), then it inserts columns.

If you don't have a full row or column selected, it will open a dialog
asking whether you want to shift cells right, shift cells down, insert
a row or insert a column.

(Note that those are all Excel commands, there is nothing specific to
NVDA there.)

Here endeth the lesson :) All this and more will be in the Microsoft
Excel with NVDA training module, which will be available later this year.

Regards

Quentin.

On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com
<mailto:aa2vm@roadrunner.com>> wrote:

Hi Group,


I have started a new thread on this ribbon business since some
have complained that the other thread had drifted away from the
original intent.


Here's one big issue with ribbons and Excel.

If one wants to insert a structural element of a work book such as
a row, column area or sheet, one cannot do this by navigating the
ribbons. The short cut which I will describe does work, but this
was given to me by someone who figured it out with sighted help.


First of all, try looking for the items under the insert portion
of the ribbon. They simply aren't there. Then via
experimentation and observation, you find a separate insert item
under the home portion of the ribbon under general. There's a
problem, if you simply navigate to the insert item, and press
either enter or space bar, nothing happens. somehow if you use the
shortcut alt + h, I, you do get a list of items. You can then
pick the desired item and press enter and follow the prompts or
whatever. If you don't know the designated shortcut sequence, you
simply can't find this item and get it to work with screen
readers: JAWS or NVDA.


I know I have seen this in other Microsoft programs such as Access
and Power Point as well.


I'm sorry folks, using ribbons does not give full access to screen
reader users in many programs as we used to have under the
standard drop down or pull down menus.


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"