Linux is plenty accessible. I've been using linux since somewhere
around 1992, and I've had much better success on linux than I have had
on any other operating system.
Now, with that said, I'd like to throw in the caveat that I'm a power
user, rarely use the full-blown gui interface, and prefer command lines.
The most accessible gui I've ever found is on the mac under OSX, and I
use that too, as well as windows. I use what's best for the current
task at hand, and don't quible about which one is better. They all have
their place, linux works with orca, mac works with voiceover, windows
works with NVDA (and others), and how much each one works is partly up
to the user. I also use BSD for certain tasks, and it's likely I'd use
other operating systems too if I had them lying around here. I even
used a raspberry pi for more than a year as my main computer, so I'm
flexible, and don't care what's at hand, I'll use what's available, and
manage to get things done, whether that's linux, windows, OSX, raspbian,
BSD, dos, or some other operating system. As long as I can access it, I
can find ways to get things done.


On Wed, 8 Mar 2017, Gene wrote:

From what I've heard, accessibility isn't as good in Linux. I'm not
saying
Linux is less accessible. But I've heard from more than one person on
one
or two lists that Linux screen-readers aren't as good. I'd want to
see more
opinions on how horrible an operating system Windows is. I remain
skeptical.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: David F.
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

This is why I wish I had the brains to learn Linux



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik
burggraaf
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



Gene, Here is my reasonable take on this based on my more than 15
years of
in depth experience not only of windows, but also other major operating
systems.

First, windows is a terrible product in any itteration. There isn't a
single thing windows does better than other operating systems except for
arketecture support. It's the most expensive operating system to
implement
if you remove hardware from the equation. Windows supports cheeper
hardware
than the competition but that doesn't negate the fact that windows
itself is
the highest priced operating system on the market. Windows is also more
expensive to maintain. In fact, an upgrade from windows seven to
windows 10
takes about two hours time. If you have to fully patch windows seven
sp1 it
takes between 3 and 6 hours depending on connection speed. If you're
paying
by the hour, which would you choose?

Windows is the least secure of all the major OS, further compounding the
astronomical maintanence cost and driving down productivity. I have
not yet
had to hack windows 10, but I have windows seven. In windows seven it is
common place for programs to allow themselves transparently through
built in
firewalling. It is also common place for programs to run as
administrator
without requiring the administrator account to be enabled or requiring an
administrator password. It is possible for programs to sircomvent the
notification system that works on the front line, and it's even
possible and
considered advisable by many people to turn the security notifications
off
altogether. In fact, it is possible when sitting at the keyboard of a
windows seven workstation to gain administrator access without logging
in at
all, to add, remove, or rename windows system files, to take command line
control of a workstation, and to perform any command line function
including
enabling or disabling the administrator account and changing account
credentials, all without logging in. Litterally any improvement would be
better than the attrocity that is windows seven security.

Microsoft interface design is terrible. Ribbons and tiles are only two
examples of design choices meant to set windows apart from competetors
but
had the effect of alienating users. Windows 10 does the smart thing and
returns the windows interface to a more desktop feel.

Windows only gets a refresh every three years or so. That means a lot
happens in the computer world between releases. Because the releases are
alternately pretty decent over all come terrible to the point of
uselessness, windows appeals to pundets who don't like change and want to
hault progress. Fine, but windows seven is coming up on 8 years old
and we
are still talking about support for windows xp being discontinued.
Nowhere
else in the world of operating systems are we talking about support for 8
year old software, and 17 year old software isn't even available for
download on pirate sites. Computers that shipped with windows 7 at
the time
of the release of windows 8 are now end of lifed, and yet, I was still
able
to buy and install a windows seven a month ago. The cost to
developers of
supporting four operating systems spanning 11 years: ten, eight, seven
and
vista, is astronomical, and you lucky end-user, get to pay the bill. The
cost of windows software over all is significantly higher than on any
other
operating system, and part of the reason is that windows users live in
the
past more than any other userbase.

Windows ten continues to be a free upgrade for current users of seven and
eight, long after it was supposed to switch to a completely paid
product.
The minimum and recommended hardware configurations are similar to
those of
windows seven. Upgrading usually brings better plug and play hardware
support and other items under the hood that users would miss if they were
gone.

There are features I like in windows ten such as it's minimalist email
app
and it's improved tts voices. Then there are things I'm not too pleased
with such as the loss of control over windows update and the increased
relience on ribbons. True, we don't really have enough information about
this particular case to make a recommendation one way or the other,
but in
general, it is more than time to leave windows seven behind unlesss
you have
some substantial reason not to, such as loss of support for a crutial
piece
of hardware.

All upgrades on all systems require a bit of retraining for new
features or
fernature that moves, but that is part and parcel of computing.
Windows ten
is market tested, reliable and functional at this point. Staying with
windows seven just because is fine for now if that's your personal
choice,
but if you're supporting or recommending on a pro or semipro basis, the
recommendation has to be to upgrade at this point unless circomstances
dictate otherwise.

Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com

On March 8, 2017 8:39:42 AM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

You have made a statement and not given any reasons supporting
it. That doesn't tell us anything except that you believe
something. People may have reasons to upgrade from Windows 7
and Microsoft has recently claimed that for security reasons,
you should upgrade because Windows 7 is not secure enough
anymore because it isn't a new enough operating system to
incorporate newer security features. I haven't seen any
independent discussion concerning this. But there are always
problems that may occur when updating and in this case, the
point was stated that this is an old computer. You don't just
upgrade. While many upgrades from Windows 7 go well, you can't
assume they will. I don't think it?s a good idea to urge
upgrading as a general practice. Why is an upgrade being
considered? What features, if any, will be used or are desired
by upgrading? Has the computer been tested for compatibility of
the upgrade?



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: enes sar?ba?

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:21 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



that is an extremely bad suggesstion. If you don't have a very good
reason to not update, it is generally a good idea to update.



On 3/8/2017 4:04 PM, Gene wrote:

Is there a specific reason you want to use Windows 10?
You can upgrade for free but I don't know the procedure.
others, I expect, will advise you. You say it's an old
laptop. There is a Microsoft site you can use to have
your computer evaluated to see if it is able to be
upgraded. But unless there is a specific feature you
want, I would advise leaving well enough alone.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Sakina

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:53 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



Hello gene and Friends,



I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has
got window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes

Sakina



[IMAGE]

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Yeah, no, what you said tabbing, typing e-mail, tabbing typing password, then pressing enter isn't working.
If you all can point me where to go to learn more about the OCR addon, I'll be more than happy to give it a shot.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

----- Original Message -----
*From:* Jacques <mailto:lists4js@runbox.com>
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2017 11:13 AM
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Kindle instructions in NVDA help

That screen sure is a dog. Speaking from memory, the control with
focus on
that screen is where you select your region. Tabbing once lands
you on the
edit control where your registered e-mail address is filled in.
The next tab
is for the password, after which enter should complete the
process. Ollie is
right, the OCR add-on is what got me passed the registration the
first time
I had to figure it out.

Jacques

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, 08 March 2017 17:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Kindle instructions in NVDA help

chris,


Have you tried with Screen review or ObjectNavigation?


And, alternatively, have you tried using the OCR add-on?


I know I did it long ago, but I don't remember how. It must have
been at
least three years ago, and I thought accessibility of that part
had improved
meanwhile... Sad to hear it hasn't.


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 16:33, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
> you have gotten way further than I have.
>
> I cannot even get the registration dialogue to read, to sign into my
Amazon account. yes. I made absolutely certain that I had the
version with
the accessibility plugged in. once the registration screen comes
up, I'm
placed on a combo box that says the fall, although it is not
labeled. so I
am not sure what I am picking as the default. If I press the tab key,
absolutely nothing at all happens. NVDA says absolutely nothing at
all. Same
goes if I shift tab.
>
> I had a friend try, and they had the same exact problem. This is
also
occurring with jaws. so I'm completely clueless as to what is
going on.
> how is one supposed to navigate that dialogue, and get signed
into your
Amazon account?
>
> Chris.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 8, 2017, at 09:35, Jacob Kruger <jacob@blindza.co.za
<mailto:jacob@blindza.co.za>> wrote:
>>
>> While have only ever purchased 3 kindle books - only books that
couldn't
find electronic formats for anywhere else, I did just get hold of
a new one,
and, installed kindle for PC 1.19.460 just to try it out under
windows 10 64
bit, although have already downloaded it to my android phone,
where it seems
pretty readable along with using talkback.
>>
>>
>> The only reason looked for this book was when I realised that this
version of kindle for PC should be relatively accessible along
with NVDA
2017.1, but, I presume this specific book doesn't offer/allow enhanced
typesetting, which requirement is sort of mentioned in NVDA help with
regards to using browse mode to read a kindle eBook.
>>
>>
>> That's since while am in what I think is the reading area -
announced as
border - NVDA reading/navigation commands don't do anything, but,
something
that might be good to mention in NVDA's help on the kindle topic
is that the
general kindle navigation commands, like page up, page down, arrow
left and
right still seem to carry out functionality, and, I know this
since pressing
space bar while in that piece of the interface does in fact toggle
SAPI
voice reading of the book, using the default SAPI voice for
windows 10.
>>
>>
>> In other words, while can't use NVDA's browse mode to read this
book on
my PC, it seems like it's still perfectly possible to just read
the book,
since NVDA does otherwise handle the interface pretty well.
>>
>>
>> So, just thought would mention this here.
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>>
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

What display specifically are you using? If you're using one of the original Pacmate or Pacmate Omni displays, it's not gonna work. At least, I! can't get it to work. Trust me. I tried billions of times!
Honestly, that's one of the only very very few things keeping me from using NVDA full time. That, and, same goes with my big Alva Satelite 80. God would I love to use that thing on Windows 10! The drivers have been totally deprecated though as far as I can see. I had this discussion on the list a while back, but no one really seemed to know how to get either of my displays up and running with NVDA.
I can get the Alva working in JFW as long as I'm on Windows XP 32 bit, but with NVDA, regardless the architect, or version of Windows, forget it. Yeah, I tried with BRLTTY, and with LibBrl, I think it's called, but neither work. Keep in mind, I don't have a power cord for my Alva as I got it used, and this machine I'm running it on doesn't have a serial port, so I'm having to bus power it via USB.
I'm veering way off from the initial topic at hand, so I'll further refrane, but my point is, I can't get the Alva to work at all, and as far as FS displays go, unless it's a newer display like a Focus, or a Focus Blue, I don't think it's gonna work, at least not without you putting up a fight.
Now, that said, if anyone knows a trick in Win10 Home 64 bit to get even just via USB, the original PM20 or PM40, in my case the 20, to work with NVDA, please, I beg of you, give me step by step directions. I'd kill! to get that thing working!
Chris.

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes! And again, yes! Please please provide the driver! That would be a dream come true!
clgilland07@gmail.com <mailto:clgilland07@gmail.com>
Thanks a million!
Chris.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

----- Original Message -----
*From:* Mallard <mailto:mallard@kimabe.eu>
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:06 AM
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
Windows 10

Hello,


I'm usinga PacMate 40 display from Freedom Scientific, and had no
problems upgrading to Windows 10.


I have the driver in my Dropbox, should anyone need it.


Ask, and I'll shaer the link.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 04:26, Gene ha scritto:
> From what I've heard about Windows 10, it is more picky about
drivers
> than earlier versions of Windows. I'm not a tech and I may be
wrong,
> but I doubt there is a basis to say that Windows 8 or 8.1 drivers
> should work in theory.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Shaun Everiss <mailto:sm.everiss@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:12 PM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
> Windows 10
>
> Maybe there are spaciffic drivers for win10 if not win8 or 8.1
drivers
> should work in theory.
>
>
>
> On 8/03/2017 3:58 p.m., Pauline Smith wrote:
> > Good Evening,
> >
> >
> > Since the upgrade to Windows 10, I haven't been able to use
the computer
> > with the FS braill display I am borrowing. I uninstalled and
> > reinstalled the display drivers and checked the setting under
> > Preferences/Braille Settings, then chose the appropriate
display. Things
> > still are not working. did I miss something?
> >
> >
> > Pauline
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

Ehh, this is for a Focus Blue, not an original PM, or, does it still work though.
Chris.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

----- Original Message -----
*From:* Mallard <mailto:mallard@kimabe.eu>
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:56 AM
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
Windows 10

Hello Ben and all,


Here you go:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3918790/FocusBlueDriver1.0.2030.exe


I upgraded straight from Windows 7 to Windows 10, and experienced no
issues with my pm 40, so I hope it works for you too.


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 10:32, Ben J. Bloomgren ha scritto:
>
> Yes, please do send that link. That would be stellar!
>
>
> Ben
>
>
> On 3/7/2017 20:42, Pauline Smith wrote:
>>
>> I suspected that the upgrade may be the reason. That is why I
>> uninstalled then reinstalled the device drivers. The FS website
>> didn't specify a Windows version with the link to the drivers.
>>
>>
>> Pauline
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/7/2017 10:26 PM, Gene wrote:
>>> From what I've heard about Windows 10, it is more picky about
>>> drivers than earlier versions of Windows. I'm not a tech and
I may
>>> be wrong, but I doubt there is a basis to say that Windows 8
or 8.1
>>> drivers should work in theory.
>>> Gene
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Shaun Everiss <mailto:sm.everiss@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:12 PM
>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>> Maybe there are spaciffic drivers for win10 if not win8 or 8.1
drivers
>>> should work in theory.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/03/2017 3:58 p.m., Pauline Smith wrote:
>>> > Good Evening,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Since the upgrade to Windows 10, I haven't been able to use the
>>> computer
>>> > with the FS braill display I am borrowing. I uninstalled and
>>> > reinstalled the display drivers and checked the setting under
>>> > Preferences/Braille Settings, then chose the appropriate
display.
>>> Things
>>> > still are not working. did I miss something?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Pauline
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

What display specifically are you using? If you're using one of the original Pacmate or Pacmate Omni displays, it's not gonna work. At least, I! can't get it to work. Trust me. I tried billions of times!

 

Honestly, that's one of the only very very few things keeping me from using NVDA full time. That, and, same goes with my big Alva Satelite 80. God would I love to use that thing on Windows 10! The drivers have been totally deprecated though as far as I can see. I had this discussion on the list a while back, but no one really seemed to know how to get either of my displays up and running with NVDA.

 

I can get the Alva working in JFW as long as I'm on Windows XP 32 bit, but with NVDA, regardless the architect, or version of Windows, forget it. Yeah, I tried with BRLTTY, and with LibBrl, I think it's called, but neither work. Keep in mind, I don't have a power cord for my Alva as I got it used, and this machine I'm running it on doesn't have a serial port, so I'm having to bus power it via USB.

 

I'm veering way off from the initial topic at hand, so I'll further refrane, but my point is, I can't get the Alva to work at all, and as far as FS displays go, unless it's a newer display like a Focus, or a Focus Blue, I don't think it's gonna work, at least not without you putting up a fight.

 

Now, that said, if anyone knows a trick in Win10 Home 64 bit to get even just via USB, the original PM20 or PM40, in my case the 20, to work with NVDA, please, I beg of you, give me step by step directions. I'd kill! to get that thing working!

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Mallard

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:56 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Hello Ben and all,


Here you go:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3918790/FocusBlueDriver1.0.2030.exe


I upgraded straight from Windows 7 to Windows 10, and experienced no
issues with my pm 40, so I hope it works for you too.


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 10:32, Ben J. Bloomgren ha scritto:
>
> Yes, please do send that link. That would be stellar!
>
>
> Ben
>
>
> On 3/7/2017 20:42, Pauline Smith wrote:
>>
>> I suspected that the upgrade may be the reason.  That is why I
>> uninstalled then reinstalled the device drivers.  The FS website
>> didn't specify a Windows version with the link to the drivers.
>>
>>
>> Pauline
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/7/2017 10:26 PM, Gene wrote:
>>> From what I've heard about Windows 10, it is more picky about
>>> drivers than earlier versions of Windows.  I'm not a tech and I may
>>> be wrong, but I doubt there is a basis to say that Windows 8 or 8.1
>>> drivers should work in theory.
>>> Gene
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Shaun Everiss <mailto:sm.everiss@...>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:12 PM
>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>> Maybe there are spaciffic drivers for win10 if not win8 or 8.1 drivers
>>> should work in theory.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/03/2017 3:58 p.m., Pauline Smith wrote:
>>> > Good Evening,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Since the upgrade to Windows 10, I haven't been able to use the
>>> computer
>>> > with the FS braill display I am borrowing.  I uninstalled and
>>> > reinstalled the display drivers and checked the setting under
>>> > Preferences/Braille Settings, then chose the appropriate display.
>>> Things
>>> > still are not working.  did I miss something?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Pauline
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Ben J. Bloomgren

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:32 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Yes, please do send that link. That would be stellar!

Ben

On 3/7/2017 20:42, Pauline Smith wrote:

I suspected that the upgrade may be the reason.  That is why I uninstalled then reinstalled the device drivers.  The FS website didn't specify a Windows version with the link to the drivers.

Pauline

On 3/7/2017 10:26 PM, Gene wrote:

From what I've heard about Windows 10, it is more picky about drivers than earlier versions of Windows.  I'm not a tech and I may be wrong, but I doubt there is a basis to say that Windows 8 or 8.1 drivers should work in theory. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Everiss

Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:12 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Maybe there are spaciffic drivers for win10 if not win8 or 8.1 drivers
should work in theory.



On 8/03/2017 3:58 p.m., Pauline Smith wrote:
> Good Evening,
>
>
> Since the upgrade to Windows 10, I haven't been able to use the computer
> with the FS braill display I am borrowing.  I uninstalled and
> reinstalled the display drivers and checked the setting under
> Preferences/Braille Settings, then chose the appropriate display. Things
> still are not working.  did I miss something?
>
>
> Pauline
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Mallard

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:06 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Hello,


I'm usinga PacMate 40 display from Freedom Scientific, and had no
problems upgrading to Windows 10.


I have the driver in my Dropbox, should anyone need it.


Ask, and I'll shaer the link.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 04:26, Gene ha scritto:
> From what I've heard about Windows 10, it is more picky about drivers
> than earlier versions of Windows.  I'm not a tech and I may be wrong,
> but I doubt there is a basis to say that Windows 8 or 8.1 drivers
> should work in theory.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Shaun Everiss <mailto:sm.everiss@...>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:12 PM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
> Windows 10
>
> Maybe there are spaciffic drivers for win10 if not win8 or 8.1 drivers
> should work in theory.
>
>
>
> On 8/03/2017 3:58 p.m., Pauline Smith wrote:
> > Good Evening,
> >
> >
> > Since the upgrade to Windows 10, I haven't been able to use the computer
> > with the FS braill display I am borrowing.  I uninstalled and
> > reinstalled the display drivers and checked the setting under
> > Preferences/Braille Settings, then chose the appropriate display. Things
> > still are not working.  did I miss something?
> >
> >
> > Pauline
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

Linux is plenty accessible. I've been using linux since somewhere
around 1992, and I've had much better success on linux than I have had
on any other operating system.
Now, with that said, I'd like to throw in the caveat that I'm a power
user, rarely use the full-blown gui interface, and prefer command lines.
The most accessible gui I've ever found is on the mac under OSX, and I
use that too, as well as windows. I use what's best for the current
task at hand, and don't quible about which one is better. They all have
their place, linux works with orca, mac works with voiceover, windows
works with NVDA (and others), and how much each one works is partly up
to the user. I also use BSD for certain tasks, and it's likely I'd use
other operating systems too if I had them lying around here. I even
used a raspberry pi for more than a year as my main computer, so I'm
flexible, and don't care what's at hand, I'll use what's available, and
manage to get things done, whether that's linux, windows, OSX, raspbian,
BSD, dos, or some other operating system. As long as I can access it, I
can find ways to get things done.


On Wed, 8 Mar 2017, Gene wrote:

From what I've heard, accessibility isn't as good in Linux. I'm not
saying
Linux is less accessible. But I've heard from more than one person on
one
or two lists that Linux screen-readers aren't as good. I'd want to
see more
opinions on how horrible an operating system Windows is. I remain
skeptical.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: David F.
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

This is why I wish I had the brains to learn Linux



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik
burggraaf
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



Gene, Here is my reasonable take on this based on my more than 15
years of
in depth experience not only of windows, but also other major operating
systems.

First, windows is a terrible product in any itteration. There isn't a
single thing windows does better than other operating systems except for
arketecture support. It's the most expensive operating system to
implement
if you remove hardware from the equation. Windows supports cheeper
hardware
than the competition but that doesn't negate the fact that windows
itself is
the highest priced operating system on the market. Windows is also more
expensive to maintain. In fact, an upgrade from windows seven to
windows 10
takes about two hours time. If you have to fully patch windows seven
sp1 it
takes between 3 and 6 hours depending on connection speed. If you're
paying
by the hour, which would you choose?

Windows is the least secure of all the major OS, further compounding the
astronomical maintanence cost and driving down productivity. I have
not yet
had to hack windows 10, but I have windows seven. In windows seven it is
common place for programs to allow themselves transparently through
built in
firewalling. It is also common place for programs to run as
administrator
without requiring the administrator account to be enabled or requiring an
administrator password. It is possible for programs to sircomvent the
notification system that works on the front line, and it's even
possible and
considered advisable by many people to turn the security notifications
off
altogether. In fact, it is possible when sitting at the keyboard of a
windows seven workstation to gain administrator access without logging
in at
all, to add, remove, or rename windows system files, to take command line
control of a workstation, and to perform any command line function
including
enabling or disabling the administrator account and changing account
credentials, all without logging in. Litterally any improvement would be
better than the attrocity that is windows seven security.

Microsoft interface design is terrible. Ribbons and tiles are only two
examples of design choices meant to set windows apart from competetors
but
had the effect of alienating users. Windows 10 does the smart thing and
returns the windows interface to a more desktop feel.

Windows only gets a refresh every three years or so. That means a lot
happens in the computer world between releases. Because the releases are
alternately pretty decent over all come terrible to the point of
uselessness, windows appeals to pundets who don't like change and want to
hault progress. Fine, but windows seven is coming up on 8 years old
and we
are still talking about support for windows xp being discontinued.
Nowhere
else in the world of operating systems are we talking about support for 8
year old software, and 17 year old software isn't even available for
download on pirate sites. Computers that shipped with windows 7 at
the time
of the release of windows 8 are now end of lifed, and yet, I was still
able
to buy and install a windows seven a month ago. The cost to
developers of
supporting four operating systems spanning 11 years: ten, eight, seven
and
vista, is astronomical, and you lucky end-user, get to pay the bill. The
cost of windows software over all is significantly higher than on any
other
operating system, and part of the reason is that windows users live in
the
past more than any other userbase.

Windows ten continues to be a free upgrade for current users of seven and
eight, long after it was supposed to switch to a completely paid
product.
The minimum and recommended hardware configurations are similar to
those of
windows seven. Upgrading usually brings better plug and play hardware
support and other items under the hood that users would miss if they were
gone.

There are features I like in windows ten such as it's minimalist email
app
and it's improved tts voices. Then there are things I'm not too pleased
with such as the loss of control over windows update and the increased
relience on ribbons. True, we don't really have enough information about
this particular case to make a recommendation one way or the other,
but in
general, it is more than time to leave windows seven behind unlesss
you have
some substantial reason not to, such as loss of support for a crutial
piece
of hardware.

All upgrades on all systems require a bit of retraining for new
features or
fernature that moves, but that is part and parcel of computing.
Windows ten
is market tested, reliable and functional at this point. Staying with
windows seven just because is fine for now if that's your personal
choice,
but if you're supporting or recommending on a pro or semipro basis, the
recommendation has to be to upgrade at this point unless circomstances
dictate otherwise.

Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com

On March 8, 2017 8:39:42 AM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

You have made a statement and not given any reasons supporting
it. That doesn't tell us anything except that you believe
something. People may have reasons to upgrade from Windows 7
and Microsoft has recently claimed that for security reasons,
you should upgrade because Windows 7 is not secure enough
anymore because it isn't a new enough operating system to
incorporate newer security features. I haven't seen any
independent discussion concerning this. But there are always
problems that may occur when updating and in this case, the
point was stated that this is an old computer. You don't just
upgrade. While many upgrades from Windows 7 go well, you can't
assume they will. I don't think it?s a good idea to urge
upgrading as a general practice. Why is an upgrade being
considered? What features, if any, will be used or are desired
by upgrading? Has the computer been tested for compatibility of
the upgrade?



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: enes sar?ba?

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:21 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



that is an extremely bad suggesstion. If you don't have a very good
reason to not update, it is generally a good idea to update.



On 3/8/2017 4:04 PM, Gene wrote:

Is there a specific reason you want to use Windows 10?
You can upgrade for free but I don't know the procedure.
others, I expect, will advise you. You say it's an old
laptop. There is a Microsoft site you can use to have
your computer evaluated to see if it is able to be
upgraded. But unless there is a specific feature you
want, I would advise leaving well enough alone.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Sakina

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:53 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



Hello gene and Friends,



I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has
got window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes

Sakina



[IMAGE]

Virus-free. www.avast.com

hi,

It is because of people who stubbornly cling to 32 bit programs and old operating systems that new technologies are not implemented in software. Examples of these include SSE2 support, support for modern APİs, and pure 64 bit applications.

Gene,  Here is my reasonable take on this based on my more than 15 years of in depth experience not only of windows, but also other major operating systems.

First, windows is a terrible product in any itteration.  There isn't a single thing windows does better than other operating systems except for arketecture support.  It's the most expensive operating system to implement if you remove hardware from the equation.  Windows supports cheeper hardware than the competition but that doesn't negate the fact that windows itself is the highest priced operating system on the market.  Windows is also more expensive to maintain.  In fact, an upgrade from windows seven to windows 10 takes about two hours time.  If you have to fully patch windows seven sp1 it takes between 3 and 6 hours depending on connection speed.  If you're paying by the hour, which would you choose?

Windows is the least secure of all the major OS, further compounding the astronomical maintanence cost and driving down productivity.  I have not yet had to hack windows 10, but I have windows seven.  In windows seven it is common place for programs to allow themselves transparently through built in firewalling.  It is also common place for programs to run as administrator without requiring the administrator account to be enabled or requiring an administrator password.  It is possible for programs to sircomvent the notification system that works on the front line, and it's even possible and considered advisable by many people to turn the security notifications off altogether.  In fact, it is possible when sitting at the keyboard of a windows seven workstation to gain administrator access without logging in at all, to add, remove, or rename windows system files, to take command line control of a workstation, and to perform any command line function including enabling or disabling the administrator account and changing account credentials, all without logging in.  Litterally any improvement would be better than the attrocity that is windows seven security.

Microsoft interface design is terrible.  Ribbons and tiles are only two examples of design choices meant to set windows apart from competetors but had the effect of alienating users.  Windows 10 does the smart thing and returns the windows interface to a more desktop feel. 

Windows only gets a refresh every three years or so.  That means a lot happens in the computer world between releases.  Because the releases are alternately pretty decent over all come terrible to the point of uselessness, windows appeals to pundets who don't like change and want to hault progress.  Fine, but windows seven is coming up on 8 years old and we are still talking about support for windows xp being discontinued.  Nowhere else in the world of operating systems are we talking about support for 8 year old software, and 17 year old software isn't even available for download on pirate sites.  Computers that shipped with windows 7 at the time of the release of windows 8 are now end of lifed, and yet, I was still able to buy and install a windows seven a month ago.  The cost to developers of supporting four operating systems spanning 11 years: ten, eight, seven and vista, is astronomical, and you lucky end-user, get to pay the bill.  The cost of windows software over all is significantly higher than on any other operating system, and part of the reason is that windows users live in the past more than any other userbase.

Windows ten continues to be a free upgrade for current users of seven and eight, long after it was supposed to switch to a completely paid product.  The minimum and recommended hardware configurations are similar to those of windows seven.  Upgrading usually brings better plug and play hardware support and other items under the hood that users would miss if they were gone.

There are features I like in windows ten such as it's minimalist email app and it's improved tts voices.  Then there are things I'm not too pleased with such as the loss of control over windows update and the increased relience on ribbons.  True, we don't really have enough information about this particular case to make a recommendation one way or the other, but in general, it is more than time to leave windows seven behind unlesss you have some substantial reason not to, such as loss of support for a crutial piece of hardware.

All upgrades on all systems require a bit of retraining for new features or fernature that moves, but that is part and parcel of computing.  Windows ten is market tested, reliable and functional at this point.  Staying with windows seven just because is fine for now if that's your personal choice, but if you're supporting or recommending on a pro or semipro basis, the recommendation has to be to upgrade at this point unless circomstances dictate otherwise.

Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com

On March 8, 2017 8:39:42 AM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

You have made a statement and not given any reasons supporting it.  That doesn't tell us anything except that you believe something.  People may have reasons to upgrade from Windows 7 and Microsoft has recently claimed that for security reasons, you should upgrade because Windows 7 is not secure enough anymore because it isn't a new enough operating system to incorporate newer security features.  I haven't seen any independent discussion concerning this.  But there are always problems that may occur when updating and in this case, the point was stated that this is an old computer.  You don't just upgrade.  While many upgrades from Windows 7 go well, you can't assume they will.  I don't think it’s a good idea to urge upgrading as a general practice.  Why is an upgrade being considered?  What features, if any, will be used or are desired by upgrading?  Has the computer been tested for compatibility of the upgrade?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: enes sarıbaş

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:21 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

 

that is an extremely bad suggesstion. If you don't have a very good reason to not update, it is generally a good idea to update.

 

On 3/8/2017 4:04 PM, Gene wrote:

Is there a specific reason you want to use Windows 10?  You can upgrade for free but I don't know the procedure.  others, I expect, will advise you.  You say it's an old laptop.  There is a Microsoft site you can use to have your computer evaluated to see if it is able to be upgraded.  But unless there is a specific feature you want, I would advise leaving well enough alone. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Sakina

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:53 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

 

Hello gene and Friends,

 

I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has got window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes

Sakina

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:45 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] New Sounds?

Hi,

The sound will play as soon as search suggestions appear and disappear. This is done for consistent user experience across search fields in different universal apps. In fact, I will make sure that, in the future, you’ll be able to toggle this, and also make it so that you won’t require the add-on to hear these sounds.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert Mendoza
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 5:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Sounds?

 

From my point of view, this is is really nice to consider, and nothing could I bothered to heard that sounds. But, we will see if they will gonna add an option to disable the sounds in the future release. Only could tell confirmation to the authors of this app if they will added it.

Robert Mendoza

On 3/8/2017 8:42 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

I definitely agree with Armando that there needs to be a way to toggle that on/off, as some might find it obnoxious. I personally like it, but...

---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

 

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert Mendoza

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 7:38 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] New Sounds?

 

Hello, Armando!

That is part of the enhanced newer version for the Win10 Essentials apps, which I believe they added it as a new features.

Robert Mendoza

On 3/8/2017 8:28 AM, Armando Maldonado wrote:

sadly, no option exist, thanks.

 

On 3/7/2017 4:07 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Is there not an option under the addon’s settings? Hit NVDA+N, then go to preferences, and under there go to Win10 Essentials.

I’m not saying there is! an option that you’re overlooking. I’m asking if it’s there. I’ve honestly not looked. I’d think that to be the most logical place for it to be though, if it were there to start with.

Que Dios le bendiga.

Chris.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Armando Maldonado
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 07:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Sounds?

I wiuld like ot know how to disable? Thanks.

On 3/7/2017 3:52 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Hey guys, gotta question.

I was just using my PC after installing the update which just came out for Windows 10 Essentials. I noticed that now when I open my start screen, or if I start typing in the search box, etc, I hear little pop sounds. These are not sounds as if my sound drivers are messing up. These sound like little sound effects that were very intentionally there.

I don't hear these when I use JFW, so I'm thinking this is something in this update? That is really really cool, if that be the case. I really like them. Nice touch!

---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Jacques

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 11:13 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Kindle instructions in NVDA help

That screen sure is a dog. Speaking from memory, the control with focus on
that screen is where you select your region. Tabbing once lands you on the
edit control where your registered e-mail address is filled in. The next tab
is for the password, after which enter should complete the process. Ollie is
right, the OCR add-on is what got me passed the registration the first time
I had to figure it out.

Jacques

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, 08 March 2017 17:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Kindle instructions in NVDA help

chris,


Have you tried with Screen review or ObjectNavigation?


And, alternatively, have you tried using the OCR add-on?


I know I did it long ago, but I don't remember how. It must have been at
least three years ago, and I thought accessibility of that part had improved
meanwhile... Sad to hear it hasn't.


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 16:33, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
> you have gotten way further than I have.
>
> I cannot even get the registration dialogue to read, to sign into my
Amazon account. yes. I made absolutely certain that I had the version with
the accessibility plugged in. once the registration screen comes up, I'm
placed on a combo box that says the fall, although it is not labeled. so I
am not sure what I am picking as the default. If I press the tab key,
absolutely nothing at all happens. NVDA says absolutely nothing at all. Same
goes if I shift tab.
>
> I had a friend try, and they had the same exact problem. This is also
occurring with jaws. so I'm completely clueless as to what is going on.
> how is one supposed to navigate that dialogue, and get signed into your
Amazon account?
>
> Chris.
>  
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 8, 2017, at 09:35, Jacob Kruger <jacob@...> wrote:
>>
>> While have only ever purchased 3 kindle books - only books that couldn't
find electronic formats for anywhere else, I did just get hold of a new one,
and, installed kindle for PC 1.19.460 just to try it out under windows 10 64
bit, although have already downloaded it to my android phone, where it seems
pretty readable along with using talkback.
>>
>>
>> The only reason looked for this book was when I realised that this
version of kindle for PC should be relatively accessible along with NVDA
2017.1, but, I presume this specific book doesn't offer/allow enhanced
typesetting, which requirement is sort of mentioned in NVDA help with
regards to using browse mode to read a kindle eBook.
>>
>>
>> That's since while am in what I think is the reading area - announced as
border - NVDA reading/navigation commands don't do anything, but, something
that might be good to mention in NVDA's help on the kindle topic is that the
general kindle navigation commands, like page up, page down, arrow left and
right still seem to carry out functionality, and, I know this since pressing
space bar while in that piece of the interface does in fact toggle SAPI
voice reading of the book, using the default SAPI voice for windows 10.
>>
>>
>> In other words, while can't use NVDA's browse mode to read this book on
my PC, it seems like it's still perfectly possible to just read the book,
since NVDA does otherwise handle the interface pretty well.
>>
>>
>> So, just thought would mention this here.
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>>
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Mallard

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 10:56 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Kindle instructions in NVDA help

chris,


Have you tried with Screen review or ObjectNavigation?


And, alternatively, have you tried using the OCR add-on?


I know I did it long ago, but I don't remember how. It must have been at
least three years ago, and I thought accessibility of that part had
improved meanwhile... Sad to hear it hasn't.


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 16:33, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
> you have gotten way further than I have.
>
> I cannot even get the registration dialogue to read, to sign into my Amazon account. yes. I made absolutely certain that I had the version with the accessibility plugged in. once the registration screen comes up, I'm placed on a combo box that says the fall, although it is not labeled. so I am not sure what I am picking as the default. If I press the tab key, absolutely nothing at all happens. NVDA says absolutely nothing at all. Same goes if I shift tab.
>
> I had a friend try, and they had the same exact problem. This is also occurring with jaws. so I'm completely clueless as to what is going on.
> how is one supposed to navigate that dialogue, and get signed into your Amazon account?
>
> Chris.
>  
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 8, 2017, at 09:35, Jacob Kruger <jacob@...> wrote:
>>
>> While have only ever purchased 3 kindle books - only books that couldn't find electronic formats for anywhere else, I did just get hold of a new one, and, installed kindle for PC 1.19.460 just to try it out under windows 10 64 bit, although have already downloaded it to my android phone, where it seems pretty readable along with using talkback.
>>
>>
>> The only reason looked for this book was when I realised that this version of kindle for PC should be relatively accessible along with NVDA 2017.1, but, I presume this specific book doesn't offer/allow enhanced typesetting, which requirement is sort of mentioned in NVDA help with regards to using browse mode to read a kindle eBook.
>>
>>
>> That's since while am in what I think is the reading area - announced as border - NVDA reading/navigation commands don't do anything, but, something that might be good to mention in NVDA's help on the kindle topic is that the general kindle navigation commands, like page up, page down, arrow left and right still seem to carry out functionality, and, I know this since pressing space bar while in that piece of the interface does in fact toggle SAPI voice reading of the book, using the default SAPI voice for windows 10.
>>
>>
>> In other words, while can't use NVDA's browse mode to read this book on my PC, it seems like it's still perfectly possible to just read the book, since NVDA does otherwise handle the interface pretty well.
>>
>>
>> So, just thought would mention this here.
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>>
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Hi


From what i have heard it is still going.


I had a friend update from 7 to 10 not even a month ago. the other way
for sighted people has ended.


Gene nz



On 9/03/2017 5:40 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:

I'd be very careful, Sakina. Laptops have often got specific drivers
for their unusual hardware, and these may not be in windows 10.
Personally, I'd leave well alone unless there is some specific reason
you want to try it.
Also of course. I think even the special VI offer has ended now, at
least nobody has mentioned it recently to me.

If you know the model of the machine, talk to the makers and see if
they will support it with drivers in Windows 10 before you change
anything.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sakina" <sakina.gable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 12:53 PM
Subject: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

Hello gene and Friends,



I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has got
window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes

Sakina

Erik, you make valid points, none of which I have any problem with. Keep in mind though that the person who originally posted this question said that it’s an old laptop, which should be considered when deciding on a final verdict. One of my older machines here is a laptop dating back to 2009. Although quite a nice machine, it slowed down to a crawl after updating it to Win10, despite my best efforts to find the most appropriate drivers. I guess it was one of those boarder line situations, where the MS hardware validator gave it the green light, but for a power user it turned out to be shere frustration trying to use the machine after the upgrade. So yes, if the hardware leans itself towards 10, go for it, if it doesn’t, stick to 7 for now and start saving for a new system, as to take advantage of the benefits of Windows 10.

 

Jacques

 

Open my home page  |  contact webmaster  |  follow on Twitter

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Wednesday, 08 March 2017 17:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

 

Gene,  Here is my reasonable take on this based on my more than 15 years of in depth experience not only of windows, but also other major operating systems.

First, windows is a terrible product in any itteration.  There isn't a single thing windows does better than other operating systems except for arketecture support.  It's the most expensive operating system to implement if you remove hardware from the equation.  Windows supports cheeper hardware than the competition but that doesn't negate the fact that windows itself is the highest priced operating system on the market.  Windows is also more expensive to maintain.  In fact, an upgrade from windows seven to windows 10 takes about two hours time.  If you have to fully patch windows seven sp1 it takes between 3 and 6 hours depending on connection speed.  If you're paying by the hour, which would you choose?

Windows is the least secure of all the major OS, further compounding the astronomical maintanence cost and driving down productivity.  I have not yet had to hack windows 10, but I have windows seven.  In windows seven it is common place for programs to allow themselves transparently through built in firewalling.  It is also common place for programs to run as administrator without requiring the administrator account to be enabled or requiring an administrator password.  It is possible for programs to sircomvent the notification system that works on the front line, and it's even possible and considered advisable by many people to turn the security notifications off altogether.  In fact, it is possible when sitting at the keyboard of a windows seven workstation to gain administrator access without logging in at all, to add, remove, or rename windows system files, to take command line control of a workstation, and to perform any command line function including enabling or disabling the administrator account and changing account credentials, all without logging in.  Litterally any improvement would be better than the attrocity that is windows seven security.

Microsoft interface design is terrible.  Ribbons and tiles are only two examples of design choices meant to set windows apart from competetors but had the effect of alienating users.  Windows 10 does the smart thing and returns the windows interface to a more desktop feel. 

Windows only gets a refresh every three years or so.  That means a lot happens in the computer world between releases.  Because the releases are alternately pretty decent over all come terrible to the point of uselessness, windows appeals to pundets who don't like change and want to hault progress.  Fine, but windows seven is coming up on 8 years old and we are still talking about support for windows xp being discontinued.  Nowhere else in the world of operating systems are we talking about support for 8 year old software, and 17 year old software isn't even available for download on pirate sites.  Computers that shipped with windows 7 at the time of the release of windows 8 are now end of lifed, and yet, I was still able to buy and install a windows seven a month ago.  The cost to developers of supporting four operating systems spanning 11 years: ten, eight, seven and vista, is astronomical, and you lucky end-user, get to pay the bill.  The cost of windows software over all is significantly higher than on any other operating system, and part of the reason is that windows users live in the past more than any other userbase.

Windows ten continues to be a free upgrade for current users of seven and eight, long after it was supposed to switch to a completely paid product.  The minimum and recommended hardware configurations are similar to those of windows seven.  Upgrading usually brings better plug and play hardware support and other items under the hood that users would miss if they were gone.

There are features I like in windows ten such as it's minimalist email app and it's improved tts voices.  Then there are things I'm not too pleased with such as the loss of control over windows update and the increased relience on ribbons.  True, we don't really have enough information about this particular case to make a recommendation one way or the other, but in general, it is more than time to leave windows seven behind unlesss you have some substantial reason not to, such as loss of support for a crutial piece of hardware.

All upgrades on all systems require a bit of retraining for new features or fernature that moves, but that is part and parcel of computing.  Windows ten is market tested, reliable and functional at this point.  Staying with windows seven just because is fine for now if that's your personal choice, but if you're supporting or recommending on a pro or semipro basis, the recommendation has to be to upgrade at this point unless circomstances dictate otherwise.

Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com

On March 8, 2017 8:39:42 AM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

You have made a statement and not given any reasons supporting it.  That doesn't tell us anything except that you believe something.  People may have reasons to upgrade from Windows 7 and Microsoft has recently claimed that for security reasons, you should upgrade because Windows 7 is not secure enough anymore because it isn't a new enough operating system to incorporate newer security features.  I haven't seen any independent discussion concerning this.  But there are always problems that may occur when updating and in this case, the point was stated that this is an old computer.  You don't just upgrade.  While many upgrades from Windows 7 go well, you can't assume they will.  I don't think it’s a good idea to urge upgrading as a general practice.  Why is an upgrade being considered?  What features, if any, will be used or are desired by upgrading?  Has the computer been tested for compatibility of the upgrade?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: enes sarıbaş

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:21 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

 

that is an extremely bad suggesstion. If you don't have a very good reason to not update, it is generally a good idea to update.

 

On 3/8/2017 4:04 PM, Gene wrote:

Is there a specific reason you want to use Windows 10?  You can upgrade for free but I don't know the procedure.  others, I expect, will advise you.  You say it's an old laptop.  There is a Microsoft site you can use to have your computer evaluated to see if it is able to be upgraded.  But unless there is a specific feature you want, I would advise leaving well enough alone. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Sakina

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:53 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

 

Hello gene and Friends,

 

I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has got window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes

Sakina

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com

 

Gene,  Here is my reasonable take on this based on my more than 15 years of in depth experience not only of windows, but also other major operating systems.

First, windows is a terrible product in any itteration.  There isn't a single thing windows does better than other operating systems except for arketecture support.  It's the most expensive operating system to implement if you remove hardware from the equation.  Windows supports cheeper hardware than the competition but that doesn't negate the fact that windows itself is the highest priced operating system on the market.  Windows is also more expensive to maintain.  In fact, an upgrade from windows seven to windows 10 takes about two hours time.  If you have to fully patch windows seven sp1 it takes between 3 and 6 hours depending on connection speed.  If you're paying by the hour, which would you choose?

Windows is the least secure of all the major OS, further compounding the astronomical maintanence cost and driving down productivity.  I have not yet had to hack windows 10, but I have windows seven.  In windows seven it is common place for programs to allow themselves transparently through built in firewalling.  It is also common place for programs to run as administrator without requiring the administrator account to be enabled or requiring an administrator password.  It is possible for programs to sircomvent the notification system that works on the front line, and it's even possible and considered advisable by many people to turn the security notifications off altogether.  In fact, it is possible when sitting at the keyboard of a windows seven workstation to gain administrator access without logging in at all, to add, remove, or rename windows system files, to take command line control of a workstation, and to perform any command line function including enabling or disabling the administrator account and changing account credentials, all without logging in.  Litterally any improvement would be better than the attrocity that is windows seven security.

Microsoft interface design is terrible.  Ribbons and tiles are only two examples of design choices meant to set windows apart from competetors but had the effect of alienating users.  Windows 10 does the smart thing and returns the windows interface to a more desktop feel. 

Windows only gets a refresh every three years or so.  That means a lot happens in the computer world between releases.  Because the releases are alternately pretty decent over all come terrible to the point of uselessness, windows appeals to pundets who don't like change and want to hault progress.  Fine, but windows seven is coming up on 8 years old and we are still talking about support for windows xp being discontinued.  Nowhere else in the world of operating systems are we talking about support for 8 year old software, and 17 year old software isn't even available for download on pirate sites.  Computers that shipped with windows 7 at the time of the release of windows 8 are now end of lifed, and yet, I was still able to buy and install a windows seven a month ago.  The cost to developers of supporting four operating systems spanning 11 years: ten, eight, seven and vista, is astronomical, and you lucky end-user, get to pay the bill.  The cost of windows software over all is significantly higher than on any other operating system, and part of the reason is that windows users live in the past more than any other userbase.

Windows ten continues to be a free upgrade for current users of seven and eight, long after it was supposed to switch to a completely paid product.  The minimum and recommended hardware configurations are similar to those of windows seven.  Upgrading usually brings better plug and play hardware support and other items under the hood that users would miss if they were gone.

There are features I like in windows ten such as it's minimalist email app and it's improved tts voices.  Then there are things I'm not too pleased with such as the loss of control over windows update and the increased relience on ribbons.  True, we don't really have enough information about this particular case to make a recommendation one way or the other, but in general, it is more than time to leave windows seven behind unlesss you have some substantial reason not to, such as loss of support for a crutial piece of hardware.

All upgrades on all systems require a bit of retraining for new features or fernature that moves, but that is part and parcel of computing.  Windows ten is market tested, reliable and functional at this point.  Staying with windows seven just because is fine for now if that's your personal choice, but if you're supporting or recommending on a pro or semipro basis, the recommendation has to be to upgrade at this point unless circomstances dictate otherwise.

Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com

On March 8, 2017 8:39:42 AM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

You have made a statement and not given any reasons supporting it.  That doesn't tell us anything except that you believe something.  People may have reasons to upgrade from Windows 7 and Microsoft has recently claimed that for security reasons, you should upgrade because Windows 7 is not secure enough anymore because it isn't a new enough operating system to incorporate newer security features.  I haven't seen any independent discussion concerning this.  But there are always problems that may occur when updating and in this case, the point was stated that this is an old computer.  You don't just upgrade.  While many upgrades from Windows 7 go well, you can't assume they will.  I don't think it’s a good idea to urge upgrading as a general practice.  Why is an upgrade being considered?  What features, if any, will be used or are desired by upgrading?  Has the computer been tested for compatibility of the upgrade?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: enes sarıbaş

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:21 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

that is an extremely bad suggesstion. If you don't have a very good reason to not update, it is generally a good idea to update.

On 3/8/2017 4:04 PM, Gene wrote:

Is there a specific reason you want to use Windows 10?  You can upgrade for free but I don't know the procedure.  others, I expect, will advise you.  You say it's an old laptop.  There is a Microsoft site you can use to have your computer evaluated to see if it is able to be upgraded.  But unless there is a specific feature you want, I would advise leaving well enough alone. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Sakina

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:53 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

Hello gene and Friends,

 

I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has got window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes

Sakina

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Gene,  Here is my reasonable take on this based on my more than 15 years of in depth experience not only of windows, but also other major operating systems.

First, windows is a terrible product in any itteration.  There isn't a single thing windows does better than other operating systems except for arketecture support.  It's the most expensive operating system to implement if you remove hardware from the equation.  Windows supports cheeper hardware than the competition but that doesn't negate the fact that windows itself is the highest priced operating system on the market.  Windows is also more expensive to maintain.  In fact, an upgrade from windows seven to windows 10 takes about two hours time.  If you have to fully patch windows seven sp1 it takes between 3 and 6 hours depending on connection speed.  If you're paying by the hour, which would you choose?

Windows is the least secure of all the major OS, further compounding the astronomical maintanence cost and driving down productivity.  I have not yet had to hack windows 10, but I have windows seven.  In windows seven it is common place for programs to allow themselves transparently through built in firewalling.  It is also common place for programs to run as administrator without requiring the administrator account to be enabled or requiring an administrator password.  It is possible for programs to sircomvent the notification system that works on the front line, and it's even possible and considered advisable by many people to turn the security notifications off altogether.  In fact, it is possible when sitting at the keyboard of a windows seven workstation to gain administrator access without logging in at all, to add, remove, or rename windows system files, to take command line control of a workstation, and to perform any command line function including enabling or disabling the administrator account and changing account credentials, all without logging in.  Litterally any improvement would be better than the attrocity that is windows seven security.

Microsoft interface design is terrible.  Ribbons and tiles are only two examples of design choices meant to set windows apart from competetors but had the effect of alienating users.  Windows 10 does the smart thing and returns the windows interface to a more desktop feel. 

Windows only gets a refresh every three years or so.  That means a lot happens in the computer world between releases.  Because the releases are alternately pretty decent over all come terrible to the point of uselessness, windows appeals to pundets who don't like change and want to hault progress.  Fine, but windows seven is coming up on 8 years old and we are still talking about support for windows xp being discontinued.  Nowhere else in the world of operating systems are we talking about support for 8 year old software, and 17 year old software isn't even available for download on pirate sites.  Computers that shipped with windows 7 at the time of the release of windows 8 are now end of lifed, and yet, I was still able to buy and install a windows seven a month ago.  The cost to developers of supporting four operating systems spanning 11 years: ten, eight, seven and vista, is astronomical, and you lucky end-user, get to pay the bill.  The cost of windows software over all is significantly higher than on any other operating system, and part of the reason is that windows users live in the past more than any other userbase.

Windows ten continues to be a free upgrade for current users of seven and eight, long after it was supposed to switch to a completely paid product.  The minimum and recommended hardware configurations are similar to those of windows seven.  Upgrading usually brings better plug and play hardware support and other items under the hood that users would miss if they were gone.

There are features I like in windows ten such as it's minimalist email app and it's improved tts voices.  Then there are things I'm not too pleased with such as the loss of control over windows update and the increased relience on ribbons.  True, we don't really have enough information about this particular case to make a recommendation one way or the other, but in general, it is more than time to leave windows seven behind unlesss you have some substantial reason not to, such as loss of support for a crutial piece of hardware.

All upgrades on all systems require a bit of retraining for new features or fernature that moves, but that is part and parcel of computing.  Windows ten is market tested, reliable and functional at this point.  Staying with windows seven just because is fine for now if that's your personal choice, but if you're supporting or recommending on a pro or semipro basis, the recommendation has to be to upgrade at this point unless circomstances dictate otherwise.

Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com

On March 8, 2017 8:39:42 AM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

You have made a statement and not given any reasons supporting it.  That doesn't tell us anything except that you believe something.  People may have reasons to upgrade from Windows 7 and Microsoft has recently claimed that for security reasons, you should upgrade because Windows 7 is not secure enough anymore because it isn't a new enough operating system to incorporate newer security features.  I haven't seen any independent discussion concerning this.  But there are always problems that may occur when updating and in this case, the point was stated that this is an old computer.  You don't just upgrade.  While many upgrades from Windows 7 go well, you can't assume they will.  I don't think it’s a good idea to urge upgrading as a general practice.  Why is an upgrade being considered?  What features, if any, will be used or are desired by upgrading?  Has the computer been tested for compatibility of the upgrade?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: enes sarıbaş

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:21 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

that is an extremely bad suggesstion. If you don't have a very good reason to not update, it is generally a good idea to update.

On 3/8/2017 4:04 PM, Gene wrote:

Is there a specific reason you want to use Windows 10?  You can upgrade for free but I don't know the procedure.  others, I expect, will advise you.  You say it's an old laptop.  There is a Microsoft site you can use to have your computer evaluated to see if it is able to be upgraded.  But unless there is a specific feature you want, I would advise leaving well enough alone. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Sakina

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:53 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

Hello gene and Friends,

 

I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has got window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes

Sakina

Virus-free. www.avast.com

You have made a statement and not given any reasons supporting it.  That doesn't tell us anything except that you believe something.  People may have reasons to upgrade from Windows 7 and Microsoft has recently claimed that for security reasons, you should upgrade because Windows 7 is not secure enough anymore because it isn't a new enough operating system to incorporate newer security features.  I haven't seen any independent discussion concerning this.  But there are always problems that may occur when updating and in this case, the point was stated that this is an old computer.  You don't just upgrade.  While many upgrades from Windows 7 go well, you can't assume they will.  I don't think it’s a good idea to urge upgrading as a general practice.  Why is an upgrade being considered?  What features, if any, will be used or are desired by upgrading?  Has the computer been tested for compatibility of the upgrade?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: enes sarıbaş

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:21 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

that is an extremely bad suggesstion. If you don't have a very good reason to not update, it is generally a good idea to update.

On 3/8/2017 4:04 PM, Gene wrote:

Is there a specific reason you want to use Windows 10?  You can upgrade for free but I don't know the procedure.  others, I expect, will advise you.  You say it's an old laptop.  There is a Microsoft site you can use to have your computer evaluated to see if it is able to be upgraded.  But unless there is a specific feature you want, I would advise leaving well enough alone. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Sakina

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:53 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

Hello gene and Friends,

 

I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has got window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes

Sakina

Virus-free. www.avast.com