Date   

Re: Kindle instructions in NVDA help

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

That's perfect. Exactly what I needed. Thanks.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Kindle instructions in NVDA help

I generally first switch to screen review mode, NVDA key + R to launch OCR process, wich will then announce when it's done, and, I generally then use shift + numpad 7 to move screen review mode cursor to top of screen before then using numpad 7 and 9 to scan the different result lines, followed by numpad 4 and 6 to move through words, etc. etc.


HTH


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2017-03-08 22:52, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
I've not tried the OCR addon. I have it, but never had had a need to use it, and honestly, I don't know how, sadly. I'm incredibly savvy though, so if you either can give me the basics, or can at least point me to where to find documentation, that should suffice.
 
Yes, I did try object navigation review, as well as just regular cursor review mode to no avale. That said, I'll grantcha, that was an excellent thought to try.
 
Chris.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Kindle instructions in NVDA help

chris,


Have you tried with Screen review or ObjectNavigation?


And, alternatively, have you tried using the OCR add-on?


I know I did it long ago, but I don't remember how. It must have been at
least three years ago, and I thought accessibility of that part had
improved meanwhile... Sad to hear it hasn't.


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 16:33, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
> you have gotten way further than I have.
>
> I cannot even get the registration dialogue to read, to sign into my Amazon account. yes. I made absolutely certain that I had the version with the accessibility plugged in. once the registration screen comes up, I'm placed on a combo box that says the fall, although it is not labeled. so I am not sure what I am picking as the default. If I press the tab key, absolutely nothing at all happens. NVDA says absolutely nothing at all. Same goes if I shift tab.
>
> I had a friend try, and they had the same exact problem. This is also occurring with jaws. so I'm completely clueless as to what is going on.
> how is one supposed to navigate that dialogue, and get signed into your Amazon account?
>
> Chris.
>  
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 8, 2017, at 09:35, Jacob Kruger <jacob@...> wrote:
>>
>> While have only ever purchased 3 kindle books - only books that couldn't find electronic formats for anywhere else, I did just get hold of a new one, and, installed kindle for PC 1.19.460 just to try it out under windows 10 64 bit, although have already downloaded it to my android phone, where it seems pretty readable along with using talkback.
>>
>>
>> The only reason looked for this book was when I realised that this version of kindle for PC should be relatively accessible along with NVDA 2017.1, but, I presume this specific book doesn't offer/allow enhanced typesetting, which requirement is sort of mentioned in NVDA help with regards to using browse mode to read a kindle eBook.
>>
>>
>> That's since while am in what I think is the reading area - announced as border - NVDA reading/navigation commands don't do anything, but, something that might be good to mention in NVDA's help on the kindle topic is that the general kindle navigation commands, like page up, page down, arrow left and right still seem to carry out functionality, and, I know this since pressing space bar while in that piece of the interface does in fact toggle SAPI voice reading of the book, using the default SAPI voice for windows 10.
>>
>>
>> In other words, while can't use NVDA's browse mode to read this book on my PC, it seems like it's still perfectly possible to just read the book, since NVDA does otherwise handle the interface pretty well.
>>
>>
>> So, just thought would mention this here.
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>>
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>





Re: Can I still get it for free

 

Linux is quite hard for command line.
I did a course of it at university, there are a lot of device paths, large comands etc.
Everything needs to be just so.
If you know what you are doing then you will survive.
You don't plug a device in and expect it to run at least not on the command line.
Its more complex than dos.
IF you are a developer or server host sure or if you are from india because people there used linux all their lives.
There is no panzy interface like windows nothing like that.
I mean there is a desktop but you need to do everything yourself.
There's no real ease unless you get stuck in.
I tried for a couple years at it.
I am sure if I kept at it I could just master it but windows is so easy to use once its setup even if it is in the past it works.

On 9/03/2017 4:51 a.m., David F. wrote:
This is why I wish I had the brains to learn Linux



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



Gene, Here is my reasonable take on this based on my more than 15 years of in depth experience not only of windows, but also other major operating systems.

First, windows is a terrible product in any itteration. There isn't a single thing windows does better than other operating systems except for arketecture support. It's the most expensive operating system to implement if you remove hardware from the equation. Windows supports cheeper hardware than the competition but that doesn't negate the fact that windows itself is the highest priced operating system on the market. Windows is also more expensive to maintain. In fact, an upgrade from windows seven to windows 10 takes about two hours time. If you have to fully patch windows seven sp1 it takes between 3 and 6 hours depending on connection speed. If you're paying by the hour, which would you choose?

Windows is the least secure of all the major OS, further compounding the astronomical maintanence cost and driving down productivity. I have not yet had to hack windows 10, but I have windows seven. In windows seven it is common place for programs to allow themselves transparently through built in firewalling. It is also common place for programs to run as administrator without requiring the administrator account to be enabled or requiring an administrator password. It is possible for programs to sircomvent the notification system that works on the front line, and it's even possible and considered advisable by many people to turn the security notifications off altogether. In fact, it is possible when sitting at the keyboard of a windows seven workstation to gain administrator access without logging in at all, to add, remove, or rename windows system files, to take command line control of a workstation, and to perform any command line function including enabling or disabling the administrator account and changing account credentials, all without logging in. Litterally any improvement would be better than the attrocity that is windows seven security.

Microsoft interface design is terrible. Ribbons and tiles are only two examples of design choices meant to set windows apart from competetors but had the effect of alienating users. Windows 10 does the smart thing and returns the windows interface to a more desktop feel.

Windows only gets a refresh every three years or so. That means a lot happens in the computer world between releases. Because the releases are alternately pretty decent over all come terrible to the point of uselessness, windows appeals to pundets who don't like change and want to hault progress. Fine, but windows seven is coming up on 8 years old and we are still talking about support for windows xp being discontinued. Nowhere else in the world of operating systems are we talking about support for 8 year old software, and 17 year old software isn't even available for download on pirate sites. Computers that shipped with windows 7 at the time of the release of windows 8 are now end of lifed, and yet, I was still able to buy and install a windows seven a month ago. The cost to developers of supporting four operating systems spanning 11 years: ten, eight, seven and vista, is astronomical, and you lucky end-user, get to pay the bill. The cost of windows software over all is significantly higher than on any other operating system, and part of the reason is that windows users live in the past more than any other userbase.

Windows ten continues to be a free upgrade for current users of seven and eight, long after it was supposed to switch to a completely paid product. The minimum and recommended hardware configurations are similar to those of windows seven. Upgrading usually brings better plug and play hardware support and other items under the hood that users would miss if they were gone.

There are features I like in windows ten such as it's minimalist email app and it's improved tts voices. Then there are things I'm not too pleased with such as the loss of control over windows update and the increased relience on ribbons. True, we don't really have enough information about this particular case to make a recommendation one way or the other, but in general, it is more than time to leave windows seven behind unlesss you have some substantial reason not to, such as loss of support for a crutial piece of hardware.

All upgrades on all systems require a bit of retraining for new features or fernature that moves, but that is part and parcel of computing. Windows ten is market tested, reliable and functional at this point. Staying with windows seven just because is fine for now if that's your personal choice, but if you're supporting or recommending on a pro or semipro basis, the recommendation has to be to upgrade at this point unless circomstances dictate otherwise.

Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com

On March 8, 2017 8:39:42 AM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

You have made a statement and not given any reasons supporting it. That doesn't tell us anything except that you believe something. People may have reasons to upgrade from Windows 7 and Microsoft has recently claimed that for security reasons, you should upgrade because Windows 7 is not secure enough anymore because it isn't a new enough operating system to incorporate newer security features. I haven't seen any independent discussion concerning this. But there are always problems that may occur when updating and in this case, the point was stated that this is an old computer. You don't just upgrade. While many upgrades from Windows 7 go well, you can't assume they will. I don't think it’s a good idea to urge upgrading as a general practice. Why is an upgrade being considered? What features, if any, will be used or are desired by upgrading? Has the computer been tested for compatibility of the upgrade?



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: enes sarıbaş <mailto:enes.saribas@gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:21 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



that is an extremely bad suggesstion. If you don't have a very good reason to not update, it is generally a good idea to update.



On 3/8/2017 4:04 PM, Gene wrote:

Is there a specific reason you want to use Windows 10? You can upgrade for free but I don't know the procedure. others, I expect, will advise you. You say it's an old laptop. There is a Microsoft site you can use to have your computer evaluated to see if it is able to be upgraded. But unless there is a specific feature you want, I would advise leaving well enough alone.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Sakina <mailto:sakina.gable@gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:53 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



Hello gene and Friends,



I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has got window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes

Sakina




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Re: Kindle instructions in NVDA help

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

Thanks, Ollie. It's greatly appreciated.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Kindle instructions in NVDA help

Chris,


For example here:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3918790/ocr-0.20120514.02.nvda-addon


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 21:54, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
> Yeah, no, what you said tabbing, typing e-mail, tabbing typing
> password, then pressing enter isn't working.
> If you all can point me where to go to learn more about the OCR addon,
> I'll be more than happy to give it a shot.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
> http://www.gshministry.org
> (980) 500-9575
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Jacques <mailto:lists4js@...>
>     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2017 11:13 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Kindle instructions in NVDA help
>
>     That screen sure is a dog. Speaking from memory, the control with
>     focus on
>     that screen is where you select your region. Tabbing once lands
>     you on the
>     edit control where your registered e-mail address is filled in.
>     The next tab
>     is for the password, after which enter should complete the
>     process. Ollie is
>     right, the OCR add-on is what got me passed the registration the
>     first time
>     I had to figure it out.
>
>     Jacques
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>     [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mallard
>     Sent: Wednesday, 08 March 2017 17:57
>     To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>     Subject: Re: [nvda] Kindle instructions in NVDA help
>
>     chris,
>
>
>     Have you tried with Screen review or ObjectNavigation?
>
>
>     And, alternatively, have you tried using the OCR add-on?
>
>
>     I know I did it long ago, but I don't remember how. It must have
>     been at
>     least three years ago, and I thought accessibility of that part
>     had improved
>     meanwhile... Sad to hear it hasn't.
>
>
>     Ciao,
>
>     Ollie
>
>
>
>
>
>     Il 08/03/2017 16:33, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
>     > you have gotten way further than I have.
>     >
>     > I cannot even get the registration dialogue to read, to sign into my
>     Amazon account. yes. I made absolutely certain that I had the
>     version with
>     the accessibility plugged in. once the registration screen comes
>     up, I'm
>     placed on a combo box that says the fall, although it is not
>     labeled. so I
>     am not sure what I am picking as the default. If I press the tab key,
>     absolutely nothing at all happens. NVDA says absolutely nothing at
>     all. Same
>     goes if I shift tab.
>     >
>     > I had a friend try, and they had the same exact problem. This is
>     also
>     occurring with jaws. so I'm completely clueless as to what is
>     going on.
>     > how is one supposed to navigate that dialogue, and get signed
>     into your
>     Amazon account?
>     >
>     > Chris.
>     >
>     >
>     > Sent from my iPhone
>     >
>     >> On Mar 8, 2017, at 09:35, Jacob Kruger <jacob@...
>     <mailto:jacob@...>> wrote:
>     >>
>     >> While have only ever purchased 3 kindle books - only books that
>     couldn't
>     find electronic formats for anywhere else, I did just get hold of
>     a new one,
>     and, installed kindle for PC 1.19.460 just to try it out under
>     windows 10 64
>     bit, although have already downloaded it to my android phone,
>     where it seems
>     pretty readable along with using talkback.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> The only reason looked for this book was when I realised that this
>     version of kindle for PC should be relatively accessible along
>     with NVDA
>     2017.1, but, I presume this specific book doesn't offer/allow enhanced
>     typesetting, which requirement is sort of mentioned in NVDA help with
>     regards to using browse mode to read a kindle eBook.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> That's since while am in what I think is the reading area -
>     announced as
>     border - NVDA reading/navigation commands don't do anything, but,
>     something
>     that might be good to mention in NVDA's help on the kindle topic
>     is that the
>     general kindle navigation commands, like page up, page down, arrow
>     left and
>     right still seem to carry out functionality, and, I know this
>     since pressing
>     space bar while in that piece of the interface does in fact toggle
>     SAPI
>     voice reading of the book, using the default SAPI voice for
>     windows 10.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> In other words, while can't use NVDA's browse mode to read this
>     book on
>     my PC, it seems like it's still perfectly possible to just read
>     the book,
>     since NVDA does otherwise handle the interface pretty well.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> So, just thought would mention this here.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Stay well
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Jacob Kruger
>     >>
>     >> Blind Biker
>     >> Skype: BlindZA
>     >> "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >
>     >
>     >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




Re: Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


Malard,
 
Yup, same version number here.
 
BTW, would you please get with me off list? I have a few questions which wouldn't be quite suited topic for this list, that you absolutely might could help me with.
 
My address is:
 
 
Thanks.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

chris, I have a pm 40, firmware version 3.70. Let me know if you manage
to make it work for you.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 22:05, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
> What display specifically are you using? If you're using one of the
> original Pacmate or Pacmate Omni displays, it's not gonna work. At
> least, I! can't get it to work. Trust me. I tried billions of times!
> Honestly, that's one of the only very very few things keeping me from
> using NVDA full time. That, and, same goes with my big Alva Satelite
> 80. God would I love to use that thing on Windows 10! The drivers have
> been totally deprecated though as far as I can see. I had this
> discussion on the list a while back, but no one really seemed to know
> how to get either of my displays up and running with NVDA.
> I can get the Alva working in JFW as long as I'm on Windows XP 32 bit,
> but with NVDA, regardless the architect, or version of Windows, forget
> it. Yeah, I tried with BRLTTY, and with LibBrl, I think it's called,
> but neither work. Keep in mind, I don't have a power cord for my Alva
> as I got it used, and this machine I'm running it on doesn't have a
> serial port, so I'm having to bus power it via USB.
> I'm veering way off from the initial topic at hand, so I'll further
> refrane, but my point is, I can't get the Alva to work at all, and as
> far as FS displays go, unless it's a newer display like a Focus, or a
> Focus Blue, I don't think it's gonna work, at least not without you
> putting up a fight.
> Now, that said, if anyone knows a trick in Win10 Home 64 bit to get
> even just via USB, the original PM20 or PM40, in my case the 20, to
> work with NVDA, please, I beg of you, give me step by step directions.
> I'd kill! to get that thing working!
> Chris.
>




Re: Att. Malard: Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


I did. It works beautifully! Thank you for your help!
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Att. Malard: Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

lol, Chris! Hope you managed to install and use it by now...


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 22:08, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
> Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes! And again, yes! Please please provide
> the driver! That would be a dream come true!
> clgilland07@... <mailto:clgilland07@...>
> Thanks a million!
> Chris.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
> http://www.gshministry.org
> (980) 500-9575
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Mallard <mailto:mallard@...>
>     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:06 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
>     Windows 10
>
>     Hello,
>
>
>     I'm usinga PacMate 40 display from Freedom Scientific, and had no
>     problems upgrading to Windows 10.
>
>
>     I have the driver in my Dropbox, should anyone need it.
>
>
>     Ask, and I'll shaer the link.
>
>     Ciao,
>
>     Ollie
>
>
>
>
>
>     Il 08/03/2017 04:26, Gene ha scritto:
>     > From what I've heard about Windows 10, it is more picky about
>     drivers
>     > than earlier versions of Windows.  I'm not a tech and I may be
>     wrong,
>     > but I doubt there is a basis to say that Windows 8 or 8.1 drivers
>     > should work in theory.
>     > Gene
>     > ----- Original Message -----
>     > *From:* Shaun Everiss <mailto:sm.everiss@...>
>     > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:12 PM
>     > *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>     <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>     > *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
>     > Windows 10
>     >
>     > Maybe there are spaciffic drivers for win10 if not win8 or 8.1
>     drivers
>     > should work in theory.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On 8/03/2017 3:58 p.m., Pauline Smith wrote:
>     > > Good Evening,
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > Since the upgrade to Windows 10, I haven't been able to use
>     the computer
>     > > with the FS braill display I am borrowing.  I uninstalled and
>     > > reinstalled the display drivers and checked the setting under
>     > > Preferences/Braille Settings, then chose the appropriate
>     display. Things
>     > > still are not working.  did I miss something?
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > Pauline
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>
>
>
>




Re: Can I still get it for free

 

Guys, not everything is 64 bit just yet.
And if you are set against 32 bit, go and buy jaws and get off this list you idiots!
Thats right, nvda is 32 bit right now.
A lot of blindy software has been 32 bit now, a lot of our games most of them are 32 bit.
So you don't want 32 bit?
Well no 32 bit codecs.
Lets see office is 64 bit a couple games are 64 bit, ccleaner is 64 bit, 7zip is 64 bit, there is a version of firefox that is 64 bit, unsure about thunderbird.
We are moving foreward but not everything is 64 bit.
A lot is still 32 bit.

On 9/03/2017 9:13 a.m., enes sarıbaş wrote:
hi,

It is because of people who stubbornly cling to 32 bit programs and old
operating systems that new technologies are not implemented in software.
Examples of these include SSE2 support, support for modern APİs, and
pure 64 bit applications.


On 3/8/2017 6:04 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

Gene, Here is my reasonable take on this based on my more than 15
years of in depth experience not only of windows, but also other major
operating systems.

First, windows is a terrible product in any itteration. There isn't a
single thing windows does better than other operating systems except
for arketecture support. It's the most expensive operating system to
implement if you remove hardware from the equation. Windows supports
cheeper hardware than the competition but that doesn't negate the fact
that windows itself is the highest priced operating system on the
market. Windows is also more expensive to maintain. In fact, an
upgrade from windows seven to windows 10 takes about two hours time.
If you have to fully patch windows seven sp1 it takes between 3 and 6
hours depending on connection speed. If you're paying by the hour,
which would you choose?

Windows is the least secure of all the major OS, further compounding
the astronomical maintanence cost and driving down productivity. I
have not yet had to hack windows 10, but I have windows seven. In
windows seven it is common place for programs to allow themselves
transparently through built in firewalling. It is also common place
for programs to run as administrator without requiring the
administrator account to be enabled or requiring an administrator
password. It is possible for programs to sircomvent the notification
system that works on the front line, and it's even possible and
considered advisable by many people to turn the security notifications
off altogether. In fact, it is possible when sitting at the keyboard
of a windows seven workstation to gain administrator access without
logging in at all, to add, remove, or rename windows system files, to
take command line control of a workstation, and to perform any command
line function including enabling or disabling the administrator
account and changing account credentials, all without logging in.
Litterally any improvement would be better than the attrocity that is
windows seven security.

Microsoft interface design is terrible. Ribbons and tiles are only
two examples of design choices meant to set windows apart from
competetors but had the effect of alienating users. Windows 10 does
the smart thing and returns the windows interface to a more desktop feel.

Windows only gets a refresh every three years or so. That means a lot
happens in the computer world between releases. Because the releases
are alternately pretty decent over all come terrible to the point of
uselessness, windows appeals to pundets who don't like change and want
to hault progress. Fine, but windows seven is coming up on 8 years
old and we are still talking about support for windows xp being
discontinued. Nowhere else in the world of operating systems are we
talking about support for 8 year old software, and 17 year old
software isn't even available for download on pirate sites. Computers
that shipped with windows 7 at the time of the release of windows 8
are now end of lifed, and yet, I was still able to buy and install a
windows seven a month ago. The cost to developers of supporting four
operating systems spanning 11 years: ten, eight, seven and vista, is
astronomical, and you lucky end-user, get to pay the bill. The cost
of windows software over all is significantly higher than on any other
operating system, and part of the reason is that windows users live in
the past more than any other userbase.

Windows ten continues to be a free upgrade for current users of seven
and eight, long after it was supposed to switch to a completely paid
product. The minimum and recommended hardware configurations are
similar to those of windows seven. Upgrading usually brings better
plug and play hardware support and other items under the hood that
users would miss if they were gone.

There are features I like in windows ten such as it's minimalist email
app and it's improved tts voices. Then there are things I'm not too
pleased with such as the loss of control over windows update and the
increased relience on ribbons. True, we don't really have enough
information about this particular case to make a recommendation one
way or the other, but in general, it is more than time to leave
windows seven behind unlesss you have some substantial reason not to,
such as loss of support for a crutial piece of hardware.

All upgrades on all systems require a bit of retraining for new
features or fernature that moves, but that is part and parcel of
computing. Windows ten is market tested, reliable and functional at
this point. Staying with windows seven just because is fine for now
if that's your personal choice, but if you're supporting or
recommending on a pro or semipro basis, the recommendation has to be
to upgrade at this point unless circomstances dictate otherwise.

Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com

On March 8, 2017 8:39:42 AM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

You have made a statement and not given any reasons supporting it.
That doesn't tell us anything except that you believe something.
People may have reasons to upgrade from Windows 7 and Microsoft has
recently claimed that for security reasons, you should upgrade
because Windows 7 is not secure enough anymore because it isn't a new
enough operating system to incorporate newer security features. I
haven't seen any independent discussion concerning this. But there
are always problems that may occur when updating and in this case,
the point was stated that this is an old computer. You don't just
upgrade. While many upgrades from Windows 7 go well, you can't
assume they will. I don't think it’s a good idea to urge upgrading
as a general practice. Why is an upgrade being considered? What
features, if any, will be used or are desired by upgrading? Has the
computer been tested for compatibility of the upgrade?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* enes sarıbaş <mailto:enes.saribas@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:21 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

that is an extremely bad suggesstion. If you don't have a very good
reason to not update, it is generally a good idea to update.


On 3/8/2017 4:04 PM, Gene wrote:
Is there a specific reason you want to use Windows 10? You can
upgrade for free but I don't know the procedure. others, I expect,
will advise you. You say it's an old laptop. There is a Microsoft
site you can use to have your computer evaluated to see if it is
able to be upgraded. But unless there is a specific feature you
want, I would advise leaving well enough alone.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Sakina <mailto:sakina.gable@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:53 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Can I still get it for free

Hello gene and Friends,

I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has got
window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes

Sakina


<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
Virus-free. www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>


Re: Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


I did. You are an absolute lifesaver! It worked like a dream! I guess the drivers are not natively included in Windows 10 like they are for some displays.
 
Now, if anyone's got a Win10 64 bit USB driver for the Alva Satelite 584 Pro, I think it is? That would be incredible!
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Chris,


It's for both. I'm using it with a pm; never hada focus.


Try it... It works!


Ciao,

Ollie

ps: On a personal note: I'll be forever grateful to you for recommending
the Aftershockz heafphones for my smartphone. If you receive all the
blessings I and another friend fo mine are sending you, you'll be very,
very happy and successful for the rest of your days... (smile)





Il 08/03/2017 22:09, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
> Ehh, this is for a Focus Blue, not an original PM, or, does it still
> work though.
> Chris.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
> http://www.gshministry.org
> (980) 500-9575
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Mallard <mailto:mallard@...>
>     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:56 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
>     Windows 10
>
>     Hello Ben and all,
>
>
>     Here you go:
>
>
>     https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3918790/FocusBlueDriver1.0.2030.exe
>
>
>     I upgraded straight from Windows 7 to Windows 10, and experienced no
>     issues with my pm 40, so I hope it works for you too.
>
>
>     Ciao,
>
>     Ollie
>
>
>
>
>
>     Il 08/03/2017 10:32, Ben J. Bloomgren ha scritto:
>     >
>     > Yes, please do send that link. That would be stellar!
>     >
>     >
>     > Ben
>     >
>     >
>     > On 3/7/2017 20:42, Pauline Smith wrote:
>     >>
>     >> I suspected that the upgrade may be the reason.  That is why I
>     >> uninstalled then reinstalled the device drivers.  The FS website
>     >> didn't specify a Windows version with the link to the drivers.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Pauline
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> On 3/7/2017 10:26 PM, Gene wrote:
>     >>> From what I've heard about Windows 10, it is more picky about
>     >>> drivers than earlier versions of Windows.  I'm not a tech and
>     I may
>     >>> be wrong, but I doubt there is a basis to say that Windows 8
>     or 8.1
>     >>> drivers should work in theory.
>     >>> Gene
>     >>> ----- Original Message -----
>     >>> *From:* Shaun Everiss <mailto:sm.everiss@...>
>     >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:12 PM
>     >>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>     <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>     >>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
>     >>> Windows 10
>     >>>
>     >>> Maybe there are spaciffic drivers for win10 if not win8 or 8.1
>     drivers
>     >>> should work in theory.
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>> On 8/03/2017 3:58 p.m., Pauline Smith wrote:
>     >>> > Good Evening,
>     >>> >
>     >>> >
>     >>> > Since the upgrade to Windows 10, I haven't been able to use the
>     >>> computer
>     >>> > with the FS braill display I am borrowing.  I uninstalled and
>     >>> > reinstalled the display drivers and checked the setting under
>     >>> > Preferences/Braille Settings, then chose the appropriate
>     display.
>     >>> Things
>     >>> > still are not working.  did I miss something?
>     >>> >
>     >>> >
>     >>> > Pauline
>     >>> >
>     >>> >
>     >>> >
>     >>> >
>     >>> >
>     >>> >
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>
>     >
>     >
>
>
>
>




Re: Can I still get it for free

 

I don't know if I can aggree with you eric.
In principal I do.
Windows sucks!
But everyone uses it.
Ok not everyone but its the most popular os of choice for just about everything in the western world.
Now a lot use linux now but access is well not as good as windows.
Dos had its day and was good but no one cares now, they just want icons.
Older windows was ok some of it just sucked I agree.
But to be honest if we didn't have microsoft anything we'd run unix or something who knows.
If what you say is true then the entire world is living in the past.
Just about everything requires windows.
Saying that there are peoples that say that ultrabooks are the way of the future, desktops are dynosaws so are laptops.
Windows is in the past, linux is the way foreward and ios and android and other things.

On 9/03/2017 4:04 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
Gene, Here is my reasonable take on this based on my more than 15 years
of in depth experience not only of windows, but also other major
operating systems.

First, windows is a terrible product in any itteration. There isn't a
single thing windows does better than other operating systems except for
arketecture support. It's the most expensive operating system to
implement if you remove hardware from the equation. Windows supports
cheeper hardware than the competition but that doesn't negate the fact
that windows itself is the highest priced operating system on the
market. Windows is also more expensive to maintain. In fact, an
upgrade from windows seven to windows 10 takes about two hours time. If
you have to fully patch windows seven sp1 it takes between 3 and 6 hours
depending on connection speed. If you're paying by the hour, which
would you choose?

Windows is the least secure of all the major OS, further compounding the
astronomical maintanence cost and driving down productivity. I have not
yet had to hack windows 10, but I have windows seven. In windows seven
it is common place for programs to allow themselves transparently
through built in firewalling. It is also common place for programs to
run as administrator without requiring the administrator account to be
enabled or requiring an administrator password. It is possible for
programs to sircomvent the notification system that works on the front
line, and it's even possible and considered advisable by many people to
turn the security notifications off altogether. In fact, it is possible
when sitting at the keyboard of a windows seven workstation to gain
administrator access without logging in at all, to add, remove, or
rename windows system files, to take command line control of a
workstation, and to perform any command line function including enabling
or disabling the administrator account and changing account credentials,
all without logging in. Litterally any improvement would be better than
the attrocity that is windows seven security.

Microsoft interface design is terrible. Ribbons and tiles are only two
examples of design choices meant to set windows apart from competetors
but had the effect of alienating users. Windows 10 does the smart thing
and returns the windows interface to a more desktop feel.

Windows only gets a refresh every three years or so. That means a lot
happens in the computer world between releases. Because the releases
are alternately pretty decent over all come terrible to the point of
uselessness, windows appeals to pundets who don't like change and want
to hault progress. Fine, but windows seven is coming up on 8 years old
and we are still talking about support for windows xp being
discontinued. Nowhere else in the world of operating systems are we
talking about support for 8 year old software, and 17 year old software
isn't even available for download on pirate sites. Computers that
shipped with windows 7 at the time of the release of windows 8 are now
end of lifed, and yet, I was still able to buy and install a windows
seven a month ago. The cost to developers of supporting four operating
systems spanning 11 years: ten, eight, seven and vista, is astronomical,
and you lucky end-user, get to pay the bill. The cost of windows
software over all is significantly higher than on any other operating
system, and part of the reason is that windows users live in the past
more than any other userbase.

Windows ten continues to be a free upgrade for current users of seven
and eight, long after it was supposed to switch to a completely paid
product. The minimum and recommended hardware configurations are
similar to those of windows seven. Upgrading usually brings better plug
and play hardware support and other items under the hood that users
would miss if they were gone.

There are features I like in windows ten such as it's minimalist email
app and it's improved tts voices. Then there are things I'm not too
pleased with such as the loss of control over windows update and the
increased relience on ribbons. True, we don't really have enough
information about this particular case to make a recommendation one way
or the other, but in general, it is more than time to leave windows
seven behind unlesss you have some substantial reason not to, such as
loss of support for a crutial piece of hardware.

All upgrades on all systems require a bit of retraining for new features
or fernature that moves, but that is part and parcel of computing.
Windows ten is market tested, reliable and functional at this point.
Staying with windows seven just because is fine for now if that's your
personal choice, but if you're supporting or recommending on a pro or
semipro basis, the recommendation has to be to upgrade at this point
unless circomstances dictate otherwise.

Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On March 8, 2017 8:39:42 AM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

You have made a statement and not given any reasons supporting it.
That doesn't tell us anything except that you believe something.
People may have reasons to upgrade from Windows 7 and Microsoft has
recently claimed that for security reasons, you should upgrade because
Windows 7 is not secure enough anymore because it isn't a new enough
operating system to incorporate newer security features. I haven't
seen any independent discussion concerning this. But there are always
problems that may occur when updating and in this case, the point was
stated that this is an old computer. You don't just upgrade. While
many upgrades from Windows 7 go well, you can't assume they will. I
don't think it’s a good idea to urge upgrading as a general practice.
Why is an upgrade being considered? What features, if any, will be
used or are desired by upgrading? Has the computer been tested for
compatibility of the upgrade?

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: enes saribas
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free


that is an extremely bad suggesstion. If you don't have a very good
reason to not update, it is generally a good idea to update.




On 3/8/2017 4:04 PM, Gene wrote:

Is there a specific reason you want to use Windows 10? You can
upgrade for free but I don't know the procedure. others, I expect,
will advise you. You say it's an old laptop. There is a Microsoft
site you can use to have your computer evaluated to see if it is
able to be upgraded. But unless there is a specific feature you
want, I would advise leaving well enough alone.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Sakina
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Can I still get it for free


Hello gene and Friends,



I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has got
window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes

Sakina


Virus-free. www.avast.com



Re: Kindle instructions in NVDA help

Jacob Kruger
 

I generally first switch to screen review mode, NVDA key + R to launch OCR process, wich will then announce when it's done, and, I generally then use shift + numpad 7 to move screen review mode cursor to top of screen before then using numpad 7 and 9 to scan the different result lines, followed by numpad 4 and 6 to move through words, etc. etc.


HTH


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2017-03-08 22:52, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

I've not tried the OCR addon. I have it, but never had had a need to use it, and honestly, I don't know how, sadly. I'm incredibly savvy though, so if you either can give me the basics, or can at least point me to where to find documentation, that should suffice.
 
Yes, I did try object navigation review, as well as just regular cursor review mode to no avale. That said, I'll grantcha, that was an excellent thought to try.
 
Chris.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Kindle instructions in NVDA help

chris,


Have you tried with Screen review or ObjectNavigation?


And, alternatively, have you tried using the OCR add-on?


I know I did it long ago, but I don't remember how. It must have been at
least three years ago, and I thought accessibility of that part had
improved meanwhile... Sad to hear it hasn't.


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 16:33, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
> you have gotten way further than I have.
>
> I cannot even get the registration dialogue to read, to sign into my Amazon account. yes. I made absolutely certain that I had the version with the accessibility plugged in. once the registration screen comes up, I'm placed on a combo box that says the fall, although it is not labeled. so I am not sure what I am picking as the default. If I press the tab key, absolutely nothing at all happens. NVDA says absolutely nothing at all. Same goes if I shift tab.
>
> I had a friend try, and they had the same exact problem. This is also occurring with jaws. so I'm completely clueless as to what is going on.
> how is one supposed to navigate that dialogue, and get signed into your Amazon account?
>
> Chris.
>  
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 8, 2017, at 09:35, Jacob Kruger <jacob@...> wrote:
>>
>> While have only ever purchased 3 kindle books - only books that couldn't find electronic formats for anywhere else, I did just get hold of a new one, and, installed kindle for PC 1.19.460 just to try it out under windows 10 64 bit, although have already downloaded it to my android phone, where it seems pretty readable along with using talkback.
>>
>>
>> The only reason looked for this book was when I realised that this version of kindle for PC should be relatively accessible along with NVDA 2017.1, but, I presume this specific book doesn't offer/allow enhanced typesetting, which requirement is sort of mentioned in NVDA help with regards to using browse mode to read a kindle eBook.
>>
>>
>> That's since while am in what I think is the reading area - announced as border - NVDA reading/navigation commands don't do anything, but, something that might be good to mention in NVDA's help on the kindle topic is that the general kindle navigation commands, like page up, page down, arrow left and right still seem to carry out functionality, and, I know this since pressing space bar while in that piece of the interface does in fact toggle SAPI voice reading of the book, using the default SAPI voice for windows 10.
>>
>>
>> In other words, while can't use NVDA's browse mode to read this book on my PC, it seems like it's still perfectly possible to just read the book, since NVDA does otherwise handle the interface pretty well.
>>
>>
>> So, just thought would mention this here.
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>>
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>





Re: Can I still get it for free

 

It depends.
How old is this unit.
Be aware some drivers may just not work depending what it is.
I had an old del with 2gb ram I was able to update from 7 to win10, but it was a joke, worse after bits died and got fixed I was never able to load or activate any windows os on it and had to bin it.
I have also had units which while they can run windows are just not able to do anything else.
Some hp units depending on age have driver issues.
So simple point, yes, the accessibility upgrade for 10 can still be installed.
Weather you will be able to get it installed or even if it passes checking by the upgrader if you will be able to get trouble free work from it is another matter.
And it may not qualify for anything over a certain update.
I suspect that eventually older units will not be able to upgrade at all.
In the first release of 10 ms pushed it out to as many as they could.
Aniversary had a little harder requirements for hardware creaters will have harder requirements.
I am not sure but as I say it all depends on things.
For myself I am happy with 7 for how ever long it may last here.

On 9/03/2017 1:53 a.m., Sakina wrote:
Hello gene and Friends,



I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has got window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes

Sakina




Re: Can I still get it for free

Kevin Cussick
 

good post, and very interesting.

On 08/03/2017 18:34, Travis Siegel wrote:
Linux is plenty accessible. I've been using linux since somewhere
around 1992, and I've had much better success on linux than I have had
on any other operating system.
Now, with that said, I'd like to throw in the caveat that I'm a power
user, rarely use the full-blown gui interface, and prefer command lines.
The most accessible gui I've ever found is on the mac under OSX, and I
use that too, as well as windows. I use what's best for the current
task at hand, and don't quible about which one is better. They all have
their place, linux works with orca, mac works with voiceover, windows
works with NVDA (and others), and how much each one works is partly up
to the user. I also use BSD for certain tasks, and it's likely I'd use
other operating systems too if I had them lying around here. I even
used a raspberry pi for more than a year as my main computer, so I'm
flexible, and don't care what's at hand, I'll use what's available, and
manage to get things done, whether that's linux, windows, OSX, raspbian,
BSD, dos, or some other operating system. As long as I can access it, I
can find ways to get things done.


On Wed, 8 Mar 2017, Gene wrote:

From what I've heard, accessibility isn't as good in Linux. I'm not
saying
Linux is less accessible. But I've heard from more than one person on
one
or two lists that Linux screen-readers aren't as good. I'd want to
see more
opinions on how horrible an operating system Windows is. I remain
skeptical.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: David F.
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

This is why I wish I had the brains to learn Linux



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik
burggraaf
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



Gene, Here is my reasonable take on this based on my more than 15
years of
in depth experience not only of windows, but also other major operating
systems.

First, windows is a terrible product in any itteration. There isn't a
single thing windows does better than other operating systems except for
arketecture support. It's the most expensive operating system to
implement
if you remove hardware from the equation. Windows supports cheeper
hardware
than the competition but that doesn't negate the fact that windows
itself is
the highest priced operating system on the market. Windows is also more
expensive to maintain. In fact, an upgrade from windows seven to
windows 10
takes about two hours time. If you have to fully patch windows seven
sp1 it
takes between 3 and 6 hours depending on connection speed. If you're
paying
by the hour, which would you choose?

Windows is the least secure of all the major OS, further compounding the
astronomical maintanence cost and driving down productivity. I have
not yet
had to hack windows 10, but I have windows seven. In windows seven it is
common place for programs to allow themselves transparently through
built in
firewalling. It is also common place for programs to run as
administrator
without requiring the administrator account to be enabled or requiring an
administrator password. It is possible for programs to sircomvent the
notification system that works on the front line, and it's even
possible and
considered advisable by many people to turn the security notifications
off
altogether. In fact, it is possible when sitting at the keyboard of a
windows seven workstation to gain administrator access without logging
in at
all, to add, remove, or rename windows system files, to take command line
control of a workstation, and to perform any command line function
including
enabling or disabling the administrator account and changing account
credentials, all without logging in. Litterally any improvement would be
better than the attrocity that is windows seven security.

Microsoft interface design is terrible. Ribbons and tiles are only two
examples of design choices meant to set windows apart from competetors
but
had the effect of alienating users. Windows 10 does the smart thing and
returns the windows interface to a more desktop feel.

Windows only gets a refresh every three years or so. That means a lot
happens in the computer world between releases. Because the releases are
alternately pretty decent over all come terrible to the point of
uselessness, windows appeals to pundets who don't like change and want to
hault progress. Fine, but windows seven is coming up on 8 years old
and we
are still talking about support for windows xp being discontinued.
Nowhere
else in the world of operating systems are we talking about support for 8
year old software, and 17 year old software isn't even available for
download on pirate sites. Computers that shipped with windows 7 at
the time
of the release of windows 8 are now end of lifed, and yet, I was still
able
to buy and install a windows seven a month ago. The cost to
developers of
supporting four operating systems spanning 11 years: ten, eight, seven
and
vista, is astronomical, and you lucky end-user, get to pay the bill. The
cost of windows software over all is significantly higher than on any
other
operating system, and part of the reason is that windows users live in
the
past more than any other userbase.

Windows ten continues to be a free upgrade for current users of seven and
eight, long after it was supposed to switch to a completely paid
product.
The minimum and recommended hardware configurations are similar to
those of
windows seven. Upgrading usually brings better plug and play hardware
support and other items under the hood that users would miss if they were
gone.

There are features I like in windows ten such as it's minimalist email
app
and it's improved tts voices. Then there are things I'm not too pleased
with such as the loss of control over windows update and the increased
relience on ribbons. True, we don't really have enough information about
this particular case to make a recommendation one way or the other,
but in
general, it is more than time to leave windows seven behind unlesss
you have
some substantial reason not to, such as loss of support for a crutial
piece
of hardware.

All upgrades on all systems require a bit of retraining for new
features or
fernature that moves, but that is part and parcel of computing.
Windows ten
is market tested, reliable and functional at this point. Staying with
windows seven just because is fine for now if that's your personal
choice,
but if you're supporting or recommending on a pro or semipro basis, the
recommendation has to be to upgrade at this point unless circomstances
dictate otherwise.

Best,

Erik

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com

On March 8, 2017 8:39:42 AM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

You have made a statement and not given any reasons supporting
it. That doesn't tell us anything except that you believe
something. People may have reasons to upgrade from Windows 7
and Microsoft has recently claimed that for security reasons,
you should upgrade because Windows 7 is not secure enough
anymore because it isn't a new enough operating system to
incorporate newer security features. I haven't seen any
independent discussion concerning this. But there are always
problems that may occur when updating and in this case, the
point was stated that this is an old computer. You don't just
upgrade. While many upgrades from Windows 7 go well, you can't
assume they will. I don't think it?s a good idea to urge
upgrading as a general practice. Why is an upgrade being
considered? What features, if any, will be used or are desired
by upgrading? Has the computer been tested for compatibility of
the upgrade?



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: enes sar?ba?

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:21 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



that is an extremely bad suggesstion. If you don't have a very good
reason to not update, it is generally a good idea to update.



On 3/8/2017 4:04 PM, Gene wrote:

Is there a specific reason you want to use Windows 10?
You can upgrade for free but I don't know the procedure.
others, I expect, will advise you. You say it's an old
laptop. There is a Microsoft site you can use to have
your computer evaluated to see if it is able to be
upgraded. But unless there is a specific feature you
want, I would advise leaving well enough alone.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Sakina

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:53 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



Hello gene and Friends,



I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has
got window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes

Sakina



[IMAGE]

Virus-free. www.avast.com






Re: Kindle instructions in NVDA help

Mallard
 

Il 08/03/2017 21:54, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
Yeah, no, what you said tabbing, typing e-mail, tabbing typing password, then pressing enter isn't working.
If you all can point me where to go to learn more about the OCR addon, I'll be more than happy to give it a shot.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

----- Original Message -----
*From:* Jacques <mailto:lists4js@runbox.com>
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2017 11:13 AM
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Kindle instructions in NVDA help

That screen sure is a dog. Speaking from memory, the control with
focus on
that screen is where you select your region. Tabbing once lands
you on the
edit control where your registered e-mail address is filled in.
The next tab
is for the password, after which enter should complete the
process. Ollie is
right, the OCR add-on is what got me passed the registration the
first time
I had to figure it out.

Jacques

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, 08 March 2017 17:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Kindle instructions in NVDA help

chris,


Have you tried with Screen review or ObjectNavigation?


And, alternatively, have you tried using the OCR add-on?


I know I did it long ago, but I don't remember how. It must have
been at
least three years ago, and I thought accessibility of that part
had improved
meanwhile... Sad to hear it hasn't.


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 16:33, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
> you have gotten way further than I have.
>
> I cannot even get the registration dialogue to read, to sign into my
Amazon account. yes. I made absolutely certain that I had the
version with
the accessibility plugged in. once the registration screen comes
up, I'm
placed on a combo box that says the fall, although it is not
labeled. so I
am not sure what I am picking as the default. If I press the tab key,
absolutely nothing at all happens. NVDA says absolutely nothing at
all. Same
goes if I shift tab.
>
> I had a friend try, and they had the same exact problem. This is
also
occurring with jaws. so I'm completely clueless as to what is
going on.
> how is one supposed to navigate that dialogue, and get signed
into your
Amazon account?
>
> Chris.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 8, 2017, at 09:35, Jacob Kruger <jacob@blindza.co.za
<mailto:jacob@blindza.co.za>> wrote:
>>
>> While have only ever purchased 3 kindle books - only books that
couldn't
find electronic formats for anywhere else, I did just get hold of
a new one,
and, installed kindle for PC 1.19.460 just to try it out under
windows 10 64
bit, although have already downloaded it to my android phone,
where it seems
pretty readable along with using talkback.
>>
>>
>> The only reason looked for this book was when I realised that this
version of kindle for PC should be relatively accessible along
with NVDA
2017.1, but, I presume this specific book doesn't offer/allow enhanced
typesetting, which requirement is sort of mentioned in NVDA help with
regards to using browse mode to read a kindle eBook.
>>
>>
>> That's since while am in what I think is the reading area -
announced as
border - NVDA reading/navigation commands don't do anything, but,
something
that might be good to mention in NVDA's help on the kindle topic
is that the
general kindle navigation commands, like page up, page down, arrow
left and
right still seem to carry out functionality, and, I know this
since pressing
space bar while in that piece of the interface does in fact toggle
SAPI
voice reading of the book, using the default SAPI voice for
windows 10.
>>
>>
>> In other words, while can't use NVDA's browse mode to read this
book on
my PC, it seems like it's still perfectly possible to just read
the book,
since NVDA does otherwise handle the interface pretty well.
>>
>>
>> So, just thought would mention this here.
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>>
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>









Re: Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Mallard
 

chris, I have a pm 40, firmware version 3.70. Let me know if you manage to make it work for you.

Ciao,

Ollie

Il 08/03/2017 22:05, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
What display specifically are you using? If you're using one of the original Pacmate or Pacmate Omni displays, it's not gonna work. At least, I! can't get it to work. Trust me. I tried billions of times!
Honestly, that's one of the only very very few things keeping me from using NVDA full time. That, and, same goes with my big Alva Satelite 80. God would I love to use that thing on Windows 10! The drivers have been totally deprecated though as far as I can see. I had this discussion on the list a while back, but no one really seemed to know how to get either of my displays up and running with NVDA.
I can get the Alva working in JFW as long as I'm on Windows XP 32 bit, but with NVDA, regardless the architect, or version of Windows, forget it. Yeah, I tried with BRLTTY, and with LibBrl, I think it's called, but neither work. Keep in mind, I don't have a power cord for my Alva as I got it used, and this machine I'm running it on doesn't have a serial port, so I'm having to bus power it via USB.
I'm veering way off from the initial topic at hand, so I'll further refrane, but my point is, I can't get the Alva to work at all, and as far as FS displays go, unless it's a newer display like a Focus, or a Focus Blue, I don't think it's gonna work, at least not without you putting up a fight.
Now, that said, if anyone knows a trick in Win10 Home 64 bit to get even just via USB, the original PM20 or PM40, in my case the 20, to work with NVDA, please, I beg of you, give me step by step directions. I'd kill! to get that thing working!
Chris.


Re: Att. Malard: Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Mallard
 

lol, Chris! Hope you managed to install and use it by now...


Ciao,

Ollie

Il 08/03/2017 22:08, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes! And again, yes! Please please provide the driver! That would be a dream come true!
clgilland07@gmail.com <mailto:clgilland07@gmail.com>
Thanks a million!
Chris.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

----- Original Message -----
*From:* Mallard <mailto:mallard@kimabe.eu>
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:06 AM
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
Windows 10

Hello,


I'm usinga PacMate 40 display from Freedom Scientific, and had no
problems upgrading to Windows 10.


I have the driver in my Dropbox, should anyone need it.


Ask, and I'll shaer the link.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 04:26, Gene ha scritto:
> From what I've heard about Windows 10, it is more picky about
drivers
> than earlier versions of Windows. I'm not a tech and I may be
wrong,
> but I doubt there is a basis to say that Windows 8 or 8.1 drivers
> should work in theory.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Shaun Everiss <mailto:sm.everiss@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:12 PM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
> Windows 10
>
> Maybe there are spaciffic drivers for win10 if not win8 or 8.1
drivers
> should work in theory.
>
>
>
> On 8/03/2017 3:58 p.m., Pauline Smith wrote:
> > Good Evening,
> >
> >
> > Since the upgrade to Windows 10, I haven't been able to use
the computer
> > with the FS braill display I am borrowing. I uninstalled and
> > reinstalled the display drivers and checked the setting under
> > Preferences/Braille Settings, then chose the appropriate
display. Things
> > still are not working. did I miss something?
> >
> >
> > Pauline
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>




Re: Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Mallard
 

Chris,


It's for both. I'm using it with a pm; never hada focus.


Try it... It works!


Ciao,

Ollie

ps: On a personal note: I'll be forever grateful to you for recommending the Aftershockz heafphones for my smartphone. If you receive all the blessings I and another friend fo mine are sending you, you'll be very, very happy and successful for the rest of your days... (smile)

Il 08/03/2017 22:09, Christopher-Mark Gilland ha scritto:
Ehh, this is for a Focus Blue, not an original PM, or, does it still work though.
Chris.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

----- Original Message -----
*From:* Mallard <mailto:mallard@kimabe.eu>
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:56 AM
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
Windows 10

Hello Ben and all,


Here you go:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3918790/FocusBlueDriver1.0.2030.exe


I upgraded straight from Windows 7 to Windows 10, and experienced no
issues with my pm 40, so I hope it works for you too.


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 10:32, Ben J. Bloomgren ha scritto:
>
> Yes, please do send that link. That would be stellar!
>
>
> Ben
>
>
> On 3/7/2017 20:42, Pauline Smith wrote:
>>
>> I suspected that the upgrade may be the reason. That is why I
>> uninstalled then reinstalled the device drivers. The FS website
>> didn't specify a Windows version with the link to the drivers.
>>
>>
>> Pauline
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/7/2017 10:26 PM, Gene wrote:
>>> From what I've heard about Windows 10, it is more picky about
>>> drivers than earlier versions of Windows. I'm not a tech and
I may
>>> be wrong, but I doubt there is a basis to say that Windows 8
or 8.1
>>> drivers should work in theory.
>>> Gene
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Shaun Everiss <mailto:sm.everiss@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:12 PM
>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>> Maybe there are spaciffic drivers for win10 if not win8 or 8.1
drivers
>>> should work in theory.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/03/2017 3:58 p.m., Pauline Smith wrote:
>>> > Good Evening,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Since the upgrade to Windows 10, I haven't been able to use the
>>> computer
>>> > with the FS braill display I am borrowing. I uninstalled and
>>> > reinstalled the display drivers and checked the setting under
>>> > Preferences/Braille Settings, then chose the appropriate
display.
>>> Things
>>> > still are not working. did I miss something?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Pauline
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>




Re: Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Ben J. Bloomgren
 

Chris,

I'm currently using it with my pac mate QX 40 display. It works like a charm. I went into NVDA's preferences and then to braille. In the braille displays area, I hit F until I came upon freedom scientific focus series or something like that, I hit enter after I had installed the driver, and it started working immediately. Needless to say, I am stoked.

On Mar 8, 2017, at 14:05, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...> wrote:

What display specifically are you using? If you're using one of the original Pacmate or Pacmate Omni displays, it's not gonna work. At least, I! can't get it to work. Trust me. I tried billions of times!
 
Honestly, that's one of the only very very few things keeping me from using NVDA full time. That, and, same goes with my big Alva Satelite 80. God would I love to use that thing on Windows 10! The drivers have been totally deprecated though as far as I can see. I had this discussion on the list a while back, but no one really seemed to know how to get either of my displays up and running with NVDA.
 
I can get the Alva working in JFW as long as I'm on Windows XP 32 bit, but with NVDA, regardless the architect, or version of Windows, forget it. Yeah, I tried with BRLTTY, and with LibBrl, I think it's called, but neither work. Keep in mind, I don't have a power cord for my Alva as I got it used, and this machine I'm running it on doesn't have a serial port, so I'm having to bus power it via USB.
 
I'm veering way off from the initial topic at hand, so I'll further refrane, but my point is, I can't get the Alva to work at all, and as far as FS displays go, unless it's a newer display like a Focus, or a Focus Blue, I don't think it's gonna work, at least not without you putting up a fight.
 
Now, that said, if anyone knows a trick in Win10 Home 64 bit to get even just via USB, the original PM20 or PM40, in my case the 20, to work with NVDA, please, I beg of you, give me step by step directions. I'd kill! to get that thing working!
 
Chris.


Re: Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


Ehh, this is for a Focus Blue, not an original PM, or, does it still work though.
 
Chris.
 
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Hello Ben and all,


Here you go:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3918790/FocusBlueDriver1.0.2030.exe


I upgraded straight from Windows 7 to Windows 10, and experienced no
issues with my pm 40, so I hope it works for you too.


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 10:32, Ben J. Bloomgren ha scritto:
>
> Yes, please do send that link. That would be stellar!
>
>
> Ben
>
>
> On 3/7/2017 20:42, Pauline Smith wrote:
>>
>> I suspected that the upgrade may be the reason.  That is why I
>> uninstalled then reinstalled the device drivers.  The FS website
>> didn't specify a Windows version with the link to the drivers.
>>
>>
>> Pauline
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/7/2017 10:26 PM, Gene wrote:
>>> From what I've heard about Windows 10, it is more picky about
>>> drivers than earlier versions of Windows.  I'm not a tech and I may
>>> be wrong, but I doubt there is a basis to say that Windows 8 or 8.1
>>> drivers should work in theory.
>>> Gene
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Shaun Everiss <mailto:sm.everiss@...>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:12 PM
>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>> Maybe there are spaciffic drivers for win10 if not win8 or 8.1 drivers
>>> should work in theory.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/03/2017 3:58 p.m., Pauline Smith wrote:
>>> > Good Evening,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Since the upgrade to Windows 10, I haven't been able to use the
>>> computer
>>> > with the FS braill display I am borrowing.  I uninstalled and
>>> > reinstalled the display drivers and checked the setting under
>>> > Preferences/Braille Settings, then chose the appropriate display.
>>> Things
>>> > still are not working.  did I miss something?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Pauline
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>




Re: Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


I! Totally! second Ben on this!
 
Chris.
 
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Yes, please do send that link. That would be stellar!


Ben


On 3/7/2017 20:42, Pauline Smith wrote:

I suspected that the upgrade may be the reason.  That is why I uninstalled then reinstalled the device drivers.  The FS website didn't specify a Windows version with the link to the drivers.


Pauline



On 3/7/2017 10:26 PM, Gene wrote:
From what I've heard about Windows 10, it is more picky about drivers than earlier versions of Windows.  I'm not a tech and I may be wrong, but I doubt there is a basis to say that Windows 8 or 8.1 drivers should work in theory. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Maybe there are spaciffic drivers for win10 if not win8 or 8.1 drivers
should work in theory.



On 8/03/2017 3:58 p.m., Pauline Smith wrote:
> Good Evening,
>
>
> Since the upgrade to Windows 10, I haven't been able to use the computer
> with the FS braill display I am borrowing.  I uninstalled and
> reinstalled the display drivers and checked the setting under
> Preferences/Braille Settings, then chose the appropriate display. Things
> still are not working.  did I miss something?
>
>
> Pauline
>
>
>
>
>
>





Att. Malard: Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes! And again, yes! Please please provide the driver! That would be a dream come true!
 
 
Thanks a million!
 
Chris.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in Windows 10

Hello,


I'm usinga PacMate 40 display from Freedom Scientific, and had no
problems upgrading to Windows 10.


I have the driver in my Dropbox, should anyone need it.


Ask, and I'll shaer the link.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 08/03/2017 04:26, Gene ha scritto:
> From what I've heard about Windows 10, it is more picky about drivers
> than earlier versions of Windows.  I'm not a tech and I may be wrong,
> but I doubt there is a basis to say that Windows 8 or 8.1 drivers
> should work in theory.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Shaun Everiss <mailto:sm.everiss@...>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 07, 2017 9:12 PM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Using Freedom Scientific Braille Display in
> Windows 10
>
> Maybe there are spaciffic drivers for win10 if not win8 or 8.1 drivers
> should work in theory.
>
>
>
> On 8/03/2017 3:58 p.m., Pauline Smith wrote:
> > Good Evening,
> >
> >
> > Since the upgrade to Windows 10, I haven't been able to use the computer
> > with the FS braill display I am borrowing.  I uninstalled and
> > reinstalled the display drivers and checked the setting under
> > Preferences/Braille Settings, then chose the appropriate display. Things
> > still are not working.  did I miss something?
> >
> >
> > Pauline
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>




Re: Can I still get it for free

 

Well to be honest till they basically died out serial synths with a command line has always been reasonably accessible especially with us dos users.
gnome2 has always been good enough for use.
The latest linux with all the different sound cards and software speech as well as gnome 3, gnome shell, unity and other things are a bit more of a challenge, kde wasn't accessible before it aparently is as well as lxde and mate but a lot of that stuff is not on the official front there are so many branches you need to follow one of them.
Gnome2 is like win xp, gnome shell is like 7 and up, I am not sure about the rest but that lxde and lfce are desktops for smaller units and are reasonably new but I have pulled out of linux for a while because of not having a machine to dabble or time to fiddle with it.

On 9/03/2017 7:34 a.m., Travis Siegel wrote:
Linux is plenty accessible. I've been using linux since somewhere
around 1992, and I've had much better success on linux than I have had
on any other operating system.
Now, with that said, I'd like to throw in the caveat that I'm a power
user, rarely use the full-blown gui interface, and prefer command lines.
The most accessible gui I've ever found is on the mac under OSX, and I
use that too, as well as windows. I use what's best for the current
task at hand, and don't quible about which one is better. They all have
their place, linux works with orca, mac works with voiceover, windows
works with NVDA (and others), and how much each one works is partly up
to the user. I also use BSD for certain tasks, and it's likely I'd use
other operating systems too if I had them lying around here. I even
used a raspberry pi for more than a year as my main computer, so I'm
flexible, and don't care what's at hand, I'll use what's available, and
manage to get things done, whether that's linux, windows, OSX, raspbian,
BSD, dos, or some other operating system. As long as I can access it, I
can find ways to get things done.


On Wed, 8 Mar 2017, Gene wrote:

From what I've heard, accessibility isn't as good in Linux. I'm not
saying
Linux is less accessible. But I've heard from more than one person on
one
or two lists that Linux screen-readers aren't as good. I'd want to
see more
opinions on how horrible an operating system Windows is. I remain
skeptical.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: David F.
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free

This is why I wish I had the brains to learn Linux



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik
burggraaf
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



Gene, Here is my reasonable take on this based on my more than 15
years of
in depth experience not only of windows, but also other major operating
systems.

First, windows is a terrible product in any itteration. There isn't a
single thing windows does better than other operating systems except for
arketecture support. It's the most expensive operating system to
implement
if you remove hardware from the equation. Windows supports cheeper
hardware
than the competition but that doesn't negate the fact that windows
itself is
the highest priced operating system on the market. Windows is also more
expensive to maintain. In fact, an upgrade from windows seven to
windows 10
takes about two hours time. If you have to fully patch windows seven
sp1 it
takes between 3 and 6 hours depending on connection speed. If you're
paying
by the hour, which would you choose?

Windows is the least secure of all the major OS, further compounding the
astronomical maintanence cost and driving down productivity. I have
not yet
had to hack windows 10, but I have windows seven. In windows seven it is
common place for programs to allow themselves transparently through
built in
firewalling. It is also common place for programs to run as
administrator
without requiring the administrator account to be enabled or requiring an
administrator password. It is possible for programs to sircomvent the
notification system that works on the front line, and it's even
possible and
considered advisable by many people to turn the security notifications
off
altogether. In fact, it is possible when sitting at the keyboard of a
windows seven workstation to gain administrator access without logging
in at
all, to add, remove, or rename windows system files, to take command line
control of a workstation, and to perform any command line function
including
enabling or disabling the administrator account and changing account
credentials, all without logging in. Litterally any improvement would be
better than the attrocity that is windows seven security.

Microsoft interface design is terrible. Ribbons and tiles are only two
examples of design choices meant to set windows apart from competetors
but
had the effect of alienating users. Windows 10 does the smart thing and
returns the windows interface to a more desktop feel.

Windows only gets a refresh every three years or so. That means a lot
happens in the computer world between releases. Because the releases are
alternately pretty decent over all come terrible to the point of
uselessness, windows appeals to pundets who don't like change and want to
hault progress. Fine, but windows seven is coming up on 8 years old
and we
are still talking about support for windows xp being discontinued.
Nowhere
else in the world of operating systems are we talking about support for 8
year old software, and 17 year old software isn't even available for
download on pirate sites. Computers that shipped with windows 7 at
the time
of the release of windows 8 are now end of lifed, and yet, I was still
able
to buy and install a windows seven a month ago. The cost to
developers of
supporting four operating systems spanning 11 years: ten, eight, seven
and
vista, is astronomical, and you lucky end-user, get to pay the bill. The
cost of windows software over all is significantly higher than on any
other
operating system, and part of the reason is that windows users live in
the
past more than any other userbase.

Windows ten continues to be a free upgrade for current users of seven and
eight, long after it was supposed to switch to a completely paid
product.
The minimum and recommended hardware configurations are similar to
those of
windows seven. Upgrading usually brings better plug and play hardware
support and other items under the hood that users would miss if they were
gone.

There are features I like in windows ten such as it's minimalist email
app
and it's improved tts voices. Then there are things I'm not too pleased
with such as the loss of control over windows update and the increased
relience on ribbons. True, we don't really have enough information about
this particular case to make a recommendation one way or the other,
but in
general, it is more than time to leave windows seven behind unlesss
you have
some substantial reason not to, such as loss of support for a crutial
piece
of hardware.

All upgrades on all systems require a bit of retraining for new
features or
fernature that moves, but that is part and parcel of computing.
Windows ten
is market tested, reliable and functional at this point. Staying with
windows seven just because is fine for now if that's your personal
choice,
but if you're supporting or recommending on a pro or semipro basis, the
recommendation has to be to upgrade at this point unless circomstances
dictate otherwise.

Best,

Erik

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On March 8, 2017 8:39:42 AM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

You have made a statement and not given any reasons supporting
it. That doesn't tell us anything except that you believe
something. People may have reasons to upgrade from Windows 7
and Microsoft has recently claimed that for security reasons,
you should upgrade because Windows 7 is not secure enough
anymore because it isn't a new enough operating system to
incorporate newer security features. I haven't seen any
independent discussion concerning this. But there are always
problems that may occur when updating and in this case, the
point was stated that this is an old computer. You don't just
upgrade. While many upgrades from Windows 7 go well, you can't
assume they will. I don't think it?s a good idea to urge
upgrading as a general practice. Why is an upgrade being
considered? What features, if any, will be used or are desired
by upgrading? Has the computer been tested for compatibility of
the upgrade?



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: enes sar?ba?

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 7:21 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



that is an extremely bad suggesstion. If you don't have a very good
reason to not update, it is generally a good idea to update.



On 3/8/2017 4:04 PM, Gene wrote:

Is there a specific reason you want to use Windows 10?
You can upgrade for free but I don't know the procedure.
others, I expect, will advise you. You say it's an old
laptop. There is a Microsoft site you can use to have
your computer evaluated to see if it is able to be
upgraded. But unless there is a specific feature you
want, I would advise leaving well enough alone.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Sakina

Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:53 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Can I still get it for free



Hello gene and Friends,



I have got this passed down old laptop from a friend that has
got window 7

Please forgive me for my terminology below

I wish to update or is called upgrade to window 10

Is it possible and can I still get the window 10 for free?

If yes, than please how do I go about.

I will be and always am grateful for your help and guidance.

Thanking you all again.

With best wishes

Sakina



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