Date   

Using NVDA to Create a Digital Signature in Word

David Russell
 

Hello NVDA Group,

I am looking for a set of instructions -user-friendly for sightless
NVDA users that would tell someone how to set up a digital signature
in a document for others to add their signature and date, then return
by email attachment. It is for a Publisher Agreement.

I also wonder would it be best to send this as a doc file or RTF since
not everyone can use PDF?
Thanks in advance. I need an answer within a few hours.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@...
Character consists of what you do on the third and fourth tries.
James A. Michener


Re: Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

Kevin Huber
 

Hi Tonyy and all interested parties:

The link is:
www.gwmicro.com/window-eyes/migrate. You will find some good
tutorials on that page.
Kevin Huber

On 5/18/17, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 12:20 pm, Tony Ballou wrote:


Is there a link out there for them?
I can't find anything obvious on the Freedom Scientific website under either
support or training with regard to being a new JAWS user coming from using
one screen reader to another.
--
Brian Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit



* * *Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and
many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome,
charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one
little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.*

* ~ Mark Twain*


Re: Introducing Windows 10 App Essentials add-on 17.06

Tony Ballou
 

Hi Joseph,


Thanks much. Even though the windows 10 professional system on my desktop is ornery and absolutely refuses to install the windows creators update, I got the app anyway!


Tony


On 5/25/2017 1:36 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

I’m delighted to announce one of the biggest releases in Windows 10 App Essentials history: version 17.06 packs numerous tweaks and lays the groundwork for supporting exciting features in Fall Creators Update (Redstone 3). More info can be found at:

https://github.com/josephsl/wintenApps/releases/tag/17.06

 

For those curious as to why I call version 17.06 one of the biggest releases yet, here’s why:

• In People app or when looking up contacts in My People (Redstone 3), NVDA will play suggestion sounds when contact suggestions appear.

• You can now use Skype commands while using My People.

• In Mail app, when writing a message, using at mentions (@) results in a list of contact suggestions appearing. NVDA will detect this and play suggestions sounds.

• Various tweaks to search field detection and handling in more apps.

• Certain workarounds are deprecated as NVDA itself will include them. These include announcing value changes for some combo boxes in Settings app. The workarounds that were part of the add-on will be removed once a stable version of NVDA that includes them is released.

• New and updated translations.

 

For those coming from Window-Eyes or other screen readers: Part of the reason why NVDA has superb support for Windows 10 is due to Windows 10 App Essentials add-on. This add-on includes features some of you have dreamed of, including improved support for various apps, a sound to indicate appearance of search results, and cutting-edge support for Microsoft Edge and other features.

 

One more thing: continuing from yesterday’s announcement on SPL add-on: as part of Project Contact Lenses, if you are using Window-Eyes and would like to taste what it is like to use NVDA with Windows 10, please write to me (or have Window-Eyes users write to me directly).

 

Enjoy the new add-on release.

Cheers,

Joseph



Re: Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

Tony Ballou
 

Hi Joseph,


Thanks my friend, I've not seen this page, will give it a good look.


Tony


On 5/25/2017 10:53 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Another inspirational document is:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda-community/wiki/SwitchingFromJawsToNVDA

If you haven’t used it, try using this page as a blueprint.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 7:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi Joseph,

 

Thanks, I've got all of  those tools in my arsenal and have been using them to teach my clients who are new as well as myself and they have helped me tremendously. In fact, your audio tutorial was the first piece of info that really helped me to grasp some of the NVDA concepts in full, and I can't thank  you enough my friend for that. 2 months ago, I got both books, and I discovered the accessibility central website last month.

 

I don't think that I can due to time constraints and my other projects that I have going on could ever write a full tutorial covering a complete transition from window eyes to NVDA. But, if I can produce a good piece of documentation that's easy to follow, makes sense, sets the readers mind at ease about making the jump, and isn't a bear to follow, then I will be able to say that I've done something right.

 

Tony      

 

On 5/25/2017 12:41 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Tony,

I am the author/producer of Welcome to NVDA tutorial series Gene mentioned. I’d like to seriously recommend that you listen to the entire series (2015 edition), as it gives you a more in-depth knowledge of NVDA and in hopes that you can use concepts I talk about to make the transition document even better.

The tutorial set can be found at:

http://www.josephsl.net/tutorials/

 

Also, I’d like to advise you to purchase and read Basic Training Module for NVDA produced by NV Access, as it teaches you Windows and app basics with NVDA.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 9:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Howdy Gene,

 

Thanks much bro, I appreciate you checking in.

 

When I first started thinking of this idea, it went back to a chart that I had read of keyboard equivalents between jaws and window eyes some years ago.  At that time I was a full blown window eyes user, and had to learn jaws for a job.  I used that chart to make the transition easier for myself and the rest I picked up through tutorials. So I fully understand what you're saying and I think we can make this work. Lots of what you mention about setting up NVDA, working with synthesizers etc.  is on the accessibilitycentral.net website, so we really don't need to re-invent the wheel there. However, there are a few things in browse mode in window eyes that behave slightly different than NVDA. Here are a few samples that even had me saying what?

 

 

The List option in NVDA is l and the list item option is I.  That makes perfect sense. 

 

 

In window eyes, though the list item is I, the list command is S.

 

With Landmarks, in NVDA it's d and shift-d conversely in window eyes, it's semicolon and shift-semicolon which completely divert from any single letter navigation choices I've seen. I'm going to take your suggestion and try and scale things down a bit. But no more tonight, It's late here in Philadelphia, and I've gotta recharge the batteries. Thanks much man!

 

 

 

On 5/24/2017 11:43 PM, Gene wrote:

I'm not sure what you are creating.  You speak of a chart and that it is eight pages long.  Evidently, you will send it to all who request it.  I'll probably write off list and do so.  But I really don't think anything that long is needed nor desirable to provide a transition.  In my opinion, the following should be discussed not in a chart, but in a document:

How to set speech parameters including synthesizer, reading speed and punctuation, how to open the menu.  How to unload NVDA and how to run it.  A brief discussion of the talking installer.  Not much, but that you will be asked if you want to create a portable version or install the screen-reader.

Aside from that, the following commands should be briefly stated:

Read current line.  Read previous line, read next line.

Read current word, next word and previous word.  The same with characters.  the pattern may be very briefly noted.

Read title bar and that pressing the command twice quickly will spell the title bar.  Pressing it three times copies the title bar text to the clipboard.

Very little discussion of browse mode need be done.  the commands are very similar or perhaps just about identical.  It should be explained how to make each link appear on its own line.  It should be explained how to stop automatic switching between browse and function mode and how to switch to words to notify the user when he is in browse mode or focus mode. 

 

Screen review may be described but it might be better to refer the user to something like the chapter in the tutorial Joseph Lee did on the subject.  It is still available on line.  Object review as well can be referred to a chapter in the tutorial. 

A brief discussion of the NVDA users' list should be given and the syntax to join.

 

I wouldn't do anything other than what I've mentioned unless I happen to think of something that I've forgotten in this disscussion but even if I did, I would do very little more.  This document is to provide a transition, not to teach Windows nor NVDA in detail.  It's purpose is to allow Window-eyes users to be able to use NVDA and refer them to resources for teaching such things as object navigation.  If it is too long and detailed, it may discourage some people from making the transition.  The purpose is to allow basic NVDA use in as short a time and with as little to learn as possible. 

 

I should add one more thing that should be mentioned.  It should be pointed out that input help is available and that you use it in the same way as in Window-eyes.  I believe the command is the same but whether it is or not, the user should be told the following:

To go into input help, use insert 1 meaning 1 on the main keyboard.  Either insert may be used.  An example of use may be given.  When in browse mode, for example, every browse mode letter such as h for heading, b for button, etc. will name the command when pressed.  the user may, if he/she wishes, push every letter of the alphabet to see what the quick navigation commands are.  they are almost identical to Windo-eyes but this will allow the user to be aware of any differences in an engaged and interactive, not a passive way. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 8:59 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi

 

Food for thought. I do have a full list of windows commands i would have to check for windows 7, 8 and 10 that can be inserted into a page if its a webpage.

 

If you want them i can drop box them to you.

 

I know what you mean by 8 pages and counting the object navigation takes a little getting used to and i do not think there is some thing like that in other screen readers.

I thought some one said the idea was burrowed from voice over?

 

Text review is pretty good as it lets you read stuff that you can not with the system focus, but people have to get there head around that you can review a whole page without say moving the carrot cursor but you can not edit with it.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 25/05/2017 1:35 PM, Tony Ballou wrote:

howdy Mate,

 

I've started working on the chart and would like your input and feedback on it so far. Because of it's length, 8 pages and probably counting, it is far too long to post here. I'm basically concentrating on the things I'm totally familiar with in both screen readers and leaving the review and object navigation modes for another time.  I for now just want to give anyone who is coming from window eyes to NVDA enough ammunition to get going and begin to feel comfortable with using the program. 

 

In my own personal experience, I learned NVDA by knowing all of the basic windows commands, and studying the help documentation that came with it. And as a new weapon of choice, I've added the accessibilitycentral.net website to my arsenal of darn near all things NVDA.

 

Contact me off list at cyberpro224@... if you want to give this a go.

 

Tony

 

 

 

On 5/24/2017 1:49 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't think describing how to use object navigation is a good idea in this context.  Giving resources for those interested, such as the tutorial chapter done by Joseph Lee would probably be a much better idea in terms of use of those creating such materials' time.  Also, the user in most cases, doesn't have to know about object navigation when first making the transition.  Better not to overload the user with a difficult concept to teach such as this at the outset. 

 

Using screen review mode can easily be explained in a work such as you are creating and it must be emphasized that after using screen review, the user must return to object navigation mode because if this isn't done, NVDA won't work properly in various contexts.  So just explaining how to enter screen review, numpad insert numpad 7 executed until you hear that there are no more review modes, then give the review commands to read current line, move to and read next line, etc. could be given.  How to move the mouse and click it could also be given. 

 

then how to return to object navigation, numpad insert 1 repeated until there are no more review modes would be done when finished.

 

It is better not to give Window-eyes and NVDA equivalent commands in the context of screen-review.  There are many equivalent commands but going into screen-review and returning to object navigation has no equivalent in Window-eyes.  this might be pointed out.  As for movement commands, the Window-eyes user will recognize equivalents such as read current line without the tutorial pointing out the actual Window-eyes command.

 

The listener or reader will know what is being discussed when the NVDA commands are given.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 11:32 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Howdy Mate,

 

That's what I was thinking also. If there are any other window eyes users out there whether they be former like myself or current who would like to help me with this endeavor, come on in, because there's loads I don't know. I'll try to have some basic ground work for the sheet up for all of you to look at by tomorrow.   


Tony

On 5/23/2017 5:09 PM, Gene wrote:

You can't compare the Window-eyes mouse pointer to object navigation.  You can give commands in NVDA for read current line, previous line, next line, and similar review commands

 

But you have to learn object navigation on its own. 

 

Screen review should be easy to teach since it is similar.  There are different commands but it's similar in movement and concept.

 

Commands such as read to end can be given.  As for browse mode, commands are either similar or identical in Window-eyes or NVDA.  I haven't used Window-eyes to any extent for years but just listing NVDA commands such as move by heading, h, skip blocks of links, n, move to next button, b, etc. should be sufficient. It should be explained how to stop automatic going into browse mode and how to change audio indications to words. 

 

As I more or less said earlier,  most of what most users do is use program commands, Windows commands, and quick navigation commands. 

 

In my opinion, that is the first important point to be made.

Maybe I'll try writing something.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 3:42 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi,

 

Give me a couple of days, Let me see what I can come up with


Tony


On 5/23/2017 2:38 PM, Brandon Cross wrote:

Yeah, agreed, I tried window eyes briefly, not enough to get a grasp on it, but if anyone did know both intimately, it would be a worthwhile venture to make a little cheat sheet, or more if needed. An article of sourts maybe.

 

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 7:40 PM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Amen!

I will be here to help anyone coming from Window-Eyes to switch to NVDA for their screen reader. I hope this does become a great way to promote NVDA and get many more people acquainted with it.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Andre Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 2:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi everyone.

 

Although I was never a Window-Eyes user, strictly NVDA, I feel that

providing material, similarly to how VFO provided some nice

transitional material to help transition to JAWS is a very good idea

for NVDA. This will be especially beneficial to those persons who are

using the Free for Office Edition. As there is a page on the wiki and

NVDACon, I hope this suggestion can come to reality, as there is a

good opportunity to extend NVDA's reach and popularity, as well as

reporting features and bugs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net. Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations or location is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries | Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa -

 

 



Introducing Windows 10 App Essentials add-on 17.06

 

Hi everyone,

 

I’m delighted to announce one of the biggest releases in Windows 10 App Essentials history: version 17.06 packs numerous tweaks and lays the groundwork for supporting exciting features in Fall Creators Update (Redstone 3). More info can be found at:

https://github.com/josephsl/wintenApps/releases/tag/17.06

 

For those curious as to why I call version 17.06 one of the biggest releases yet, here’s why:

• In People app or when looking up contacts in My People (Redstone 3), NVDA will play suggestion sounds when contact suggestions appear.

• You can now use Skype commands while using My People.

• In Mail app, when writing a message, using at mentions (@) results in a list of contact suggestions appearing. NVDA will detect this and play suggestions sounds.

• Various tweaks to search field detection and handling in more apps.

• Certain workarounds are deprecated as NVDA itself will include them. These include announcing value changes for some combo boxes in Settings app. The workarounds that were part of the add-on will be removed once a stable version of NVDA that includes them is released.

• New and updated translations.

 

For those coming from Window-Eyes or other screen readers: Part of the reason why NVDA has superb support for Windows 10 is due to Windows 10 App Essentials add-on. This add-on includes features some of you have dreamed of, including improved support for various apps, a sound to indicate appearance of search results, and cutting-edge support for Microsoft Edge and other features.

 

One more thing: continuing from yesterday’s announcement on SPL add-on: as part of Project Contact Lenses, if you are using Window-Eyes and would like to taste what it is like to use NVDA with Windows 10, please write to me (or have Window-Eyes users write to me directly).

 

Enjoy the new add-on release.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: voices

Antony Stone
 

On Thursday 25 May 2017 at 19:21:42, Don H wrote:

Are there any vocalizer voices for NVDA?
--
"In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to realise that
the job was already taken."

- Douglas Adams

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


voices

Don H
 

Are there any vocalizer voices for NVDA?


uninstallingstascom

Brennen Kinch
 

hi how do I uninstall stascom I tried doing what it said to do in the user guide but it just kept installing copies of it on my computer it didn't give me an option to uninstall it any help would be appreciated thanks

Sent from my iPhone


Re: unattended installation of nvda_2017.1

Chris
 

Try adding the  the following switch for a silent install of nvda

 

 

--install-silen

 

more info:

https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html#CommandLineOptions

 

 


Re: Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi,

Another inspirational document is:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda-community/wiki/SwitchingFromJawsToNVDA

If you haven’t used it, try using this page as a blueprint.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 7:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi Joseph,

 

Thanks, I've got all of  those tools in my arsenal and have been using them to teach my clients who are new as well as myself and they have helped me tremendously. In fact, your audio tutorial was the first piece of info that really helped me to grasp some of the NVDA concepts in full, and I can't thank  you enough my friend for that. 2 months ago, I got both books, and I discovered the accessibility central website last month.

 

I don't think that I can due to time constraints and my other projects that I have going on could ever write a full tutorial covering a complete transition from window eyes to NVDA. But, if I can produce a good piece of documentation that's easy to follow, makes sense, sets the readers mind at ease about making the jump, and isn't a bear to follow, then I will be able to say that I've done something right.

 

Tony      

 

On 5/25/2017 12:41 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Tony,

I am the author/producer of Welcome to NVDA tutorial series Gene mentioned. I’d like to seriously recommend that you listen to the entire series (2015 edition), as it gives you a more in-depth knowledge of NVDA and in hopes that you can use concepts I talk about to make the transition document even better.

The tutorial set can be found at:

http://www.josephsl.net/tutorials/

 

Also, I’d like to advise you to purchase and read Basic Training Module for NVDA produced by NV Access, as it teaches you Windows and app basics with NVDA.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 9:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Howdy Gene,

 

Thanks much bro, I appreciate you checking in.

 

When I first started thinking of this idea, it went back to a chart that I had read of keyboard equivalents between jaws and window eyes some years ago.  At that time I was a full blown window eyes user, and had to learn jaws for a job.  I used that chart to make the transition easier for myself and the rest I picked up through tutorials. So I fully understand what you're saying and I think we can make this work. Lots of what you mention about setting up NVDA, working with synthesizers etc.  is on the accessibilitycentral.net website, so we really don't need to re-invent the wheel there. However, there are a few things in browse mode in window eyes that behave slightly different than NVDA. Here are a few samples that even had me saying what?

 

 

The List option in NVDA is l and the list item option is I.  That makes perfect sense. 

 

 

In window eyes, though the list item is I, the list command is S.

 

With Landmarks, in NVDA it's d and shift-d conversely in window eyes, it's semicolon and shift-semicolon which completely divert from any single letter navigation choices I've seen. I'm going to take your suggestion and try and scale things down a bit. But no more tonight, It's late here in Philadelphia, and I've gotta recharge the batteries. Thanks much man!

 

 

 

On 5/24/2017 11:43 PM, Gene wrote:

I'm not sure what you are creating.  You speak of a chart and that it is eight pages long.  Evidently, you will send it to all who request it.  I'll probably write off list and do so.  But I really don't think anything that long is needed nor desirable to provide a transition.  In my opinion, the following should be discussed not in a chart, but in a document:

How to set speech parameters including synthesizer, reading speed and punctuation, how to open the menu.  How to unload NVDA and how to run it.  A brief discussion of the talking installer.  Not much, but that you will be asked if you want to create a portable version or install the screen-reader.

Aside from that, the following commands should be briefly stated:

Read current line.  Read previous line, read next line.

Read current word, next word and previous word.  The same with characters.  the pattern may be very briefly noted.

Read title bar and that pressing the command twice quickly will spell the title bar.  Pressing it three times copies the title bar text to the clipboard.

Very little discussion of browse mode need be done.  the commands are very similar or perhaps just about identical.  It should be explained how to make each link appear on its own line.  It should be explained how to stop automatic switching between browse and function mode and how to switch to words to notify the user when he is in browse mode or focus mode. 

 

Screen review may be described but it might be better to refer the user to something like the chapter in the tutorial Joseph Lee did on the subject.  It is still available on line.  Object review as well can be referred to a chapter in the tutorial. 

A brief discussion of the NVDA users' list should be given and the syntax to join.

 

I wouldn't do anything other than what I've mentioned unless I happen to think of something that I've forgotten in this disscussion but even if I did, I would do very little more.  This document is to provide a transition, not to teach Windows nor NVDA in detail.  It's purpose is to allow Window-eyes users to be able to use NVDA and refer them to resources for teaching such things as object navigation.  If it is too long and detailed, it may discourage some people from making the transition.  The purpose is to allow basic NVDA use in as short a time and with as little to learn as possible. 

 

I should add one more thing that should be mentioned.  It should be pointed out that input help is available and that you use it in the same way as in Window-eyes.  I believe the command is the same but whether it is or not, the user should be told the following:

To go into input help, use insert 1 meaning 1 on the main keyboard.  Either insert may be used.  An example of use may be given.  When in browse mode, for example, every browse mode letter such as h for heading, b for button, etc. will name the command when pressed.  the user may, if he/she wishes, push every letter of the alphabet to see what the quick navigation commands are.  they are almost identical to Windo-eyes but this will allow the user to be aware of any differences in an engaged and interactive, not a passive way. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 8:59 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi

 

Food for thought. I do have a full list of windows commands i would have to check for windows 7, 8 and 10 that can be inserted into a page if its a webpage.

 

If you want them i can drop box them to you.

 

I know what you mean by 8 pages and counting the object navigation takes a little getting used to and i do not think there is some thing like that in other screen readers.

I thought some one said the idea was burrowed from voice over?

 

Text review is pretty good as it lets you read stuff that you can not with the system focus, but people have to get there head around that you can review a whole page without say moving the carrot cursor but you can not edit with it.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 25/05/2017 1:35 PM, Tony Ballou wrote:

howdy Mate,

 

I've started working on the chart and would like your input and feedback on it so far. Because of it's length, 8 pages and probably counting, it is far too long to post here. I'm basically concentrating on the things I'm totally familiar with in both screen readers and leaving the review and object navigation modes for another time.  I for now just want to give anyone who is coming from window eyes to NVDA enough ammunition to get going and begin to feel comfortable with using the program. 

 

In my own personal experience, I learned NVDA by knowing all of the basic windows commands, and studying the help documentation that came with it. And as a new weapon of choice, I've added the accessibilitycentral.net website to my arsenal of darn near all things NVDA.

 

Contact me off list at cyberpro224@... if you want to give this a go.

 

Tony

 

 

 

On 5/24/2017 1:49 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't think describing how to use object navigation is a good idea in this context.  Giving resources for those interested, such as the tutorial chapter done by Joseph Lee would probably be a much better idea in terms of use of those creating such materials' time.  Also, the user in most cases, doesn't have to know about object navigation when first making the transition.  Better not to overload the user with a difficult concept to teach such as this at the outset. 

 

Using screen review mode can easily be explained in a work such as you are creating and it must be emphasized that after using screen review, the user must return to object navigation mode because if this isn't done, NVDA won't work properly in various contexts.  So just explaining how to enter screen review, numpad insert numpad 7 executed until you hear that there are no more review modes, then give the review commands to read current line, move to and read next line, etc. could be given.  How to move the mouse and click it could also be given. 

 

then how to return to object navigation, numpad insert 1 repeated until there are no more review modes would be done when finished.

 

It is better not to give Window-eyes and NVDA equivalent commands in the context of screen-review.  There are many equivalent commands but going into screen-review and returning to object navigation has no equivalent in Window-eyes.  this might be pointed out.  As for movement commands, the Window-eyes user will recognize equivalents such as read current line without the tutorial pointing out the actual Window-eyes command.

 

The listener or reader will know what is being discussed when the NVDA commands are given.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 11:32 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Howdy Mate,

 

That's what I was thinking also. If there are any other window eyes users out there whether they be former like myself or current who would like to help me with this endeavor, come on in, because there's loads I don't know. I'll try to have some basic ground work for the sheet up for all of you to look at by tomorrow.   


Tony

On 5/23/2017 5:09 PM, Gene wrote:

You can't compare the Window-eyes mouse pointer to object navigation.  You can give commands in NVDA for read current line, previous line, next line, and similar review commands

 

But you have to learn object navigation on its own. 

 

Screen review should be easy to teach since it is similar.  There are different commands but it's similar in movement and concept.

 

Commands such as read to end can be given.  As for browse mode, commands are either similar or identical in Window-eyes or NVDA.  I haven't used Window-eyes to any extent for years but just listing NVDA commands such as move by heading, h, skip blocks of links, n, move to next button, b, etc. should be sufficient. It should be explained how to stop automatic going into browse mode and how to change audio indications to words. 

 

As I more or less said earlier,  most of what most users do is use program commands, Windows commands, and quick navigation commands. 

 

In my opinion, that is the first important point to be made.

Maybe I'll try writing something.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 3:42 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi,

 

Give me a couple of days, Let me see what I can come up with


Tony


On 5/23/2017 2:38 PM, Brandon Cross wrote:

Yeah, agreed, I tried window eyes briefly, not enough to get a grasp on it, but if anyone did know both intimately, it would be a worthwhile venture to make a little cheat sheet, or more if needed. An article of sourts maybe.

 

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 7:40 PM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Amen!

I will be here to help anyone coming from Window-Eyes to switch to NVDA for their screen reader. I hope this does become a great way to promote NVDA and get many more people acquainted with it.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Andre Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 2:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi everyone.

 

Although I was never a Window-Eyes user, strictly NVDA, I feel that

providing material, similarly to how VFO provided some nice

transitional material to help transition to JAWS is a very good idea

for NVDA. This will be especially beneficial to those persons who are

using the Free for Office Edition. As there is a page on the wiki and

NVDACon, I hope this suggestion can come to reality, as there is a

good opportunity to extend NVDA's reach and popularity, as well as

reporting features and bugs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net. Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations or location is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries | Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa -

 

 


Re: Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

Tony Ballou
 

Hi Joseph,


Thanks, I've got all of  those tools in my arsenal and have been using them to teach my clients who are new as well as myself and they have helped me tremendously. In fact, your audio tutorial was the first piece of info that really helped me to grasp some of the NVDA concepts in full, and I can't thank  you enough my friend for that. 2 months ago, I got both books, and I discovered the accessibility central website last month.


I don't think that I can due to time constraints and my other projects that I have going on could ever write a full tutorial covering a complete transition from window eyes to NVDA. But, if I can produce a good piece of documentation that's easy to follow, makes sense, sets the readers mind at ease about making the jump, and isn't a bear to follow, then I will be able to say that I've done something right.


Tony      


On 5/25/2017 12:41 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Tony,

I am the author/producer of Welcome to NVDA tutorial series Gene mentioned. I’d like to seriously recommend that you listen to the entire series (2015 edition), as it gives you a more in-depth knowledge of NVDA and in hopes that you can use concepts I talk about to make the transition document even better.

The tutorial set can be found at:

http://www.josephsl.net/tutorials/

 

Also, I’d like to advise you to purchase and read Basic Training Module for NVDA produced by NV Access, as it teaches you Windows and app basics with NVDA.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 9:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Howdy Gene,

 

Thanks much bro, I appreciate you checking in.

 

When I first started thinking of this idea, it went back to a chart that I had read of keyboard equivalents between jaws and window eyes some years ago.  At that time I was a full blown window eyes user, and had to learn jaws for a job.  I used that chart to make the transition easier for myself and the rest I picked up through tutorials. So I fully understand what you're saying and I think we can make this work. Lots of what you mention about setting up NVDA, working with synthesizers etc.  is on the accessibilitycentral.net website, so we really don't need to re-invent the wheel there. However, there are a few things in browse mode in window eyes that behave slightly different than NVDA. Here are a few samples that even had me saying what?

 

 

The List option in NVDA is l and the list item option is I.  That makes perfect sense. 

 

 

In window eyes, though the list item is I, the list command is S.

 

With Landmarks, in NVDA it's d and shift-d conversely in window eyes, it's semicolon and shift-semicolon which completely divert from any single letter navigation choices I've seen. I'm going to take your suggestion and try and scale things down a bit. But no more tonight, It's late here in Philadelphia, and I've gotta recharge the batteries. Thanks much man!

 

 

 

On 5/24/2017 11:43 PM, Gene wrote:

I'm not sure what you are creating.  You speak of a chart and that it is eight pages long.  Evidently, you will send it to all who request it.  I'll probably write off list and do so.  But I really don't think anything that long is needed nor desirable to provide a transition.  In my opinion, the following should be discussed not in a chart, but in a document:

How to set speech parameters including synthesizer, reading speed and punctuation, how to open the menu.  How to unload NVDA and how to run it.  A brief discussion of the talking installer.  Not much, but that you will be asked if you want to create a portable version or install the screen-reader.

Aside from that, the following commands should be briefly stated:

Read current line.  Read previous line, read next line.

Read current word, next word and previous word.  The same with characters.  the pattern may be very briefly noted.

Read title bar and that pressing the command twice quickly will spell the title bar.  Pressing it three times copies the title bar text to the clipboard.

Very little discussion of browse mode need be done.  the commands are very similar or perhaps just about identical.  It should be explained how to make each link appear on its own line.  It should be explained how to stop automatic switching between browse and function mode and how to switch to words to notify the user when he is in browse mode or focus mode. 

 

Screen review may be described but it might be better to refer the user to something like the chapter in the tutorial Joseph Lee did on the subject.  It is still available on line.  Object review as well can be referred to a chapter in the tutorial. 

A brief discussion of the NVDA users' list should be given and the syntax to join.

 

I wouldn't do anything other than what I've mentioned unless I happen to think of something that I've forgotten in this disscussion but even if I did, I would do very little more.  This document is to provide a transition, not to teach Windows nor NVDA in detail.  It's purpose is to allow Window-eyes users to be able to use NVDA and refer them to resources for teaching such things as object navigation.  If it is too long and detailed, it may discourage some people from making the transition.  The purpose is to allow basic NVDA use in as short a time and with as little to learn as possible. 

 

I should add one more thing that should be mentioned.  It should be pointed out that input help is available and that you use it in the same way as in Window-eyes.  I believe the command is the same but whether it is or not, the user should be told the following:

To go into input help, use insert 1 meaning 1 on the main keyboard.  Either insert may be used.  An example of use may be given.  When in browse mode, for example, every browse mode letter such as h for heading, b for button, etc. will name the command when pressed.  the user may, if he/she wishes, push every letter of the alphabet to see what the quick navigation commands are.  they are almost identical to Windo-eyes but this will allow the user to be aware of any differences in an engaged and interactive, not a passive way. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 8:59 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi

 

Food for thought. I do have a full list of windows commands i would have to check for windows 7, 8 and 10 that can be inserted into a page if its a webpage.

 

If you want them i can drop box them to you.

 

I know what you mean by 8 pages and counting the object navigation takes a little getting used to and i do not think there is some thing like that in other screen readers.

I thought some one said the idea was burrowed from voice over?

 

Text review is pretty good as it lets you read stuff that you can not with the system focus, but people have to get there head around that you can review a whole page without say moving the carrot cursor but you can not edit with it.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 25/05/2017 1:35 PM, Tony Ballou wrote:

howdy Mate,

 

I've started working on the chart and would like your input and feedback on it so far. Because of it's length, 8 pages and probably counting, it is far too long to post here. I'm basically concentrating on the things I'm totally familiar with in both screen readers and leaving the review and object navigation modes for another time.  I for now just want to give anyone who is coming from window eyes to NVDA enough ammunition to get going and begin to feel comfortable with using the program. 

 

In my own personal experience, I learned NVDA by knowing all of the basic windows commands, and studying the help documentation that came with it. And as a new weapon of choice, I've added the accessibilitycentral.net website to my arsenal of darn near all things NVDA.

 

Contact me off list at cyberpro224@... if you want to give this a go.

 

Tony

 

 

 

On 5/24/2017 1:49 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't think describing how to use object navigation is a good idea in this context.  Giving resources for those interested, such as the tutorial chapter done by Joseph Lee would probably be a much better idea in terms of use of those creating such materials' time.  Also, the user in most cases, doesn't have to know about object navigation when first making the transition.  Better not to overload the user with a difficult concept to teach such as this at the outset. 

 

Using screen review mode can easily be explained in a work such as you are creating and it must be emphasized that after using screen review, the user must return to object navigation mode because if this isn't done, NVDA won't work properly in various contexts.  So just explaining how to enter screen review, numpad insert numpad 7 executed until you hear that there are no more review modes, then give the review commands to read current line, move to and read next line, etc. could be given.  How to move the mouse and click it could also be given. 

 

then how to return to object navigation, numpad insert 1 repeated until there are no more review modes would be done when finished.

 

It is better not to give Window-eyes and NVDA equivalent commands in the context of screen-review.  There are many equivalent commands but going into screen-review and returning to object navigation has no equivalent in Window-eyes.  this might be pointed out.  As for movement commands, the Window-eyes user will recognize equivalents such as read current line without the tutorial pointing out the actual Window-eyes command.

 

The listener or reader will know what is being discussed when the NVDA commands are given.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 11:32 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Howdy Mate,

 

That's what I was thinking also. If there are any other window eyes users out there whether they be former like myself or current who would like to help me with this endeavor, come on in, because there's loads I don't know. I'll try to have some basic ground work for the sheet up for all of you to look at by tomorrow.   


Tony

On 5/23/2017 5:09 PM, Gene wrote:

You can't compare the Window-eyes mouse pointer to object navigation.  You can give commands in NVDA for read current line, previous line, next line, and similar review commands

 

But you have to learn object navigation on its own. 

 

Screen review should be easy to teach since it is similar.  There are different commands but it's similar in movement and concept.

 

Commands such as read to end can be given.  As for browse mode, commands are either similar or identical in Window-eyes or NVDA.  I haven't used Window-eyes to any extent for years but just listing NVDA commands such as move by heading, h, skip blocks of links, n, move to next button, b, etc. should be sufficient. It should be explained how to stop automatic going into browse mode and how to change audio indications to words. 

 

As I more or less said earlier,  most of what most users do is use program commands, Windows commands, and quick navigation commands. 

 

In my opinion, that is the first important point to be made.

Maybe I'll try writing something.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 3:42 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi,

 

Give me a couple of days, Let me see what I can come up with


Tony

On 5/23/2017 2:38 PM, Brandon Cross wrote:

Yeah, agreed, I tried window eyes briefly, not enough to get a grasp on it, but if anyone did know both intimately, it would be a worthwhile venture to make a little cheat sheet, or more if needed. An article of sourts maybe.

 

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 7:40 PM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Amen!

I will be here to help anyone coming from Window-Eyes to switch to NVDA for their screen reader. I hope this does become a great way to promote NVDA and get many more people acquainted with it.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Andre Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 2:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi everyone.

 

Although I was never a Window-Eyes user, strictly NVDA, I feel that

providing material, similarly to how VFO provided some nice

transitional material to help transition to JAWS is a very good idea

for NVDA. This will be especially beneficial to those persons who are

using the Free for Office Edition. As there is a page on the wiki and

NVDACon, I hope this suggestion can come to reality, as there is a

good opportunity to extend NVDA's reach and popularity, as well as

reporting features and bugs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net. Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations or location is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries | Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa -

 



Re: Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io

 

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:42 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Of course in my personal view, the amount of non nvda conversations here is growing and it might be a better idea to set up a different list for comments rather than requests for help.

The problem being that this never, ever works.   Groups such as this one, even though they have a specific central subject, are social ecosystems.  People get to know each other over time and want to make a comment on something "random" or ask a cohort of people they trust about something that's not the central topic of the group.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with either of those things so long as they do not dominate the group.

Tools such as the ones I posted about have come into existence because it is impossible, not to mention impractical, to set up mailing lists that have some laser focused topic and have them thrive yet still allow those who want to filter out what they consider "junk" to do it easily.

The tools are there.  You have to decide whether you want to use them or not.  You will never distill any e-mailing list down to only what you think belongs on it unless you, for any you, are its one and only member.

As to whether or not someone is happy using a web interface for one-time configuration at this point in time, my only response is:  Get over it.   It's time to configure yourself to the world, as the world is not going to configure itself to you.
--
Brian         Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


unattended installation of nvda_2017.1

Cripps, Ian
 

Hi All,

 

I wondering, if anyone can help me on correct command for unattended installation (no pop-up or sounds). I have been using the following the command but I still progress bar being displayed

 

“nvda_2017.1.exe --install-silent –minimal”

 

Going by inbuilt help text (-h) this should stop all user interface when installing. I am doing something wrong or this bug in the installer?

 

Cheers

 

Ian

 

--
Ian Cripps

IT Consultant
Schools 2nd Level Support Team

Hampshire IT Services, Corporate Resources

Hampshire County Council
Tel: 01329 246024      Mobile: 07718 679 678 

 

*** This email, and any attachments, is strictly confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender. Any request for disclosure of this document under the Data Protection Act 1998 or Freedom of Information Act 2000 should be referred to the sender. [disclaimer id: HCCStdDisclaimerExt] ***


Re: how to make links appear on a separate line

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

I got it thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to make links appear on a separate line

OK, One more time.
go to the browse part of the menu in nvda.
untick the item about use screen layout when supported.
OK it and leave.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis L" <dennisl1982@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to make links appear on a separate line


How do you set it so you don’t have to do that all the time there were
instructions previously given but my computer crashed.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Hector
Elias
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 12:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to make links appear on a separate line



Hello:

The NVDA+v will toggle this feature on and off. However, when its off, it
will place the link or the object in a separate line. When its on, it will
use the visual layout of the page. Hope this helps.


Hector;



On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:30 AM, Brian's Mail list account
<bglists@...> wrote:

I think its the other way around I posted how to get to the actually setting
to set the default.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene New Zealand"
<hurrikennyandopo@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to make links appear on a separate line


Hi


Try while in the browser the NVDA key + letter V


It will toggle between screen layout on and off.


When it is on if i remember right it puts the link on a seperate line.


And the other way on the one line.


Gene nz



On 24/05/2017 4:17 PM, Dennis L wrote:
Hi, how do you prevent links from appearing on the same line? I saw this
before but my computer crashed and I lost how to fix this.


--
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material
at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net. Regardless of where you are in New
Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA
screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations or
location is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries | Aotearoa
People's Network Kaharoa -


Re: help pairing and using Xamarin live player with visual studio on windows

Jessica D <jldail13@...>
 

Hi,
Can you please provide written instructions, on how to get setup, including any download links for software, that way I can ensure I'm going to the right place to download what I need.
The last time I tried the preview, you couldn't read the start screen with voiceover.
Is this still the case?

Sent from my iPhone

On May 25, 2017, at 7:02 AM, Greg Wocher <gwocher@...> wrote:

Hello,

If you are saying that Visual Studio on the mac is inaccessible, you would be in error. The newest version of Visual Studio 2017 on the mac is quite accessible. I have it installed on my mac book air running the latest version of Sierra. The reason you have to use it is that the Visual Studio on mac is based on xamarin.


Regards,

Greg Wocher


On 5/25/2017 3:28 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
If the Apple lot have not rapped this app over the knuckles I'd ignore it myself. The only way to get these people to toe the line is to ignore them and use some other solution.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica D" <jldail13@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:33 PM
Subject: [nvda] help pairing and using Xamarin live player with visual studio on windows


Hi,

As some may have heard, Microsoft has released a new app.
This app is called “Xamarin live player.”

It’s available for both ios and android.

I’m trying to pair visual studio on Windows, which I’m running through VMwware fusion, to my iPhone so I can use the app, but everything I’ve found says that you have to use the mac version, which is totally enaccessible with voiceover.

What should I do?

Does this app work under Windows?


Sent from Mail for Windows 10






Re: help pairing and using Xamarin live player with visual studio on windows

Greg Wocher
 

Hello,

If you are saying that Visual Studio on the mac is inaccessible, you would be in error. The newest version of Visual Studio 2017 on the mac is quite accessible. I have it installed on my mac book air running the latest version of Sierra. The reason you have to use it is that the Visual Studio on mac is based on xamarin.


Regards,

Greg Wocher

On 5/25/2017 3:28 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
If the Apple lot have not rapped this app over the knuckles I'd ignore it myself. The only way to get these people to toe the line is to ignore them and use some other solution.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica D" <jldail13@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:33 PM
Subject: [nvda] help pairing and using Xamarin live player with visual studio on windows


Hi,

As some may have heard, Microsoft has released a new app.
This app is called “Xamarin live player.”

It’s available for both ios and android.

I’m trying to pair visual studio on Windows, which I’m running through VMwware fusion, to my iPhone so I can use the app, but everything I’ve found says that you have to use the mac version, which is totally enaccessible with voiceover.

What should I do?

Does this app work under Windows?


Sent from Mail for Windows 10




Re: how to make links appear on a separate line

Peter Beasley
 

I am quite happy using screen layout. I just use the letter k to from link to link.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 8:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to make links appear on a separate line

OK, One more time.
go to the browse part of the menu in nvda.
untick the item about use screen layout when supported.
OK it and leave.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis L" <dennisl1982@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to make links appear on a separate line


How do you set it so you don’t have to do that all the time there were
instructions previously given but my computer crashed.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Hector
Elias
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 12:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to make links appear on a separate line



Hello:

The NVDA+v will toggle this feature on and off. However, when its off, it
will place the link or the object in a separate line. When its on, it will
use the visual layout of the page. Hope this helps.


Hector;



On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:30 AM, Brian's Mail list account
<bglists@...> wrote:

I think its the other way around I posted how to get to the actually setting
to set the default.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene New Zealand"
<hurrikennyandopo@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to make links appear on a separate line


Hi


Try while in the browser the NVDA key + letter V


It will toggle between screen layout on and off.


When it is on if i remember right it puts the link on a seperate line.


And the other way on the one line.


Gene nz



On 24/05/2017 4:17 PM, Dennis L wrote:
Hi, how do you prevent links from appearing on the same line? I saw this
before but my computer crashed and I lost how to fix this.


--
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material
at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net. Regardless of where you are in New
Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA
screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations or
location is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries | Aotearoa
People's Network Kaharoa -


Re: Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

Gene
 

The user doesn't need any sort of list of keyboard equivalents.  If you want to mention the browse mode quick navigation command divergences in a sentence or two, fine.  The user already knows the Window-eyes commands.  He needs to know a small number of NVDA commands, read current line, read title bar and a small number of others.  If you really want to help the user be independent in terms of using NVDA, tell him/her how to find the quick keys rreference in NVDA help.  That will give the user a reason to use the NVDA menu and not provide him/her with all sorts of information that is not needed at the outset.  Also, since the quick keys reference opens in the default browser, that's a good motivation for the user to use the browse mode search command.  Tell the user what it is and give an example of how to search for a command.  Again, you don't have to give Window-eyes equivalents but it does no harm if you do.  Find is done by using either insert and f in NVDA.  There is nothing wrong with saying something like, as you know search in Window-eyes is control shift f.  In NVDA it's either insert f.  I don't recall definitely what repeat search is in Window-eyes.  You may give it if you wish.  but as I said, the user already knows these commands.  He needs to know that the NVDA command is either insert and f3. 
 
The transition guide should allow the user to use NVDA as quickly and as easily as possible.  Tell the user where to learn the rest.  A link to Joseph Lee's tutorial would be a good idea.  Telling how to use the help submenu in the NVDA menu would be a good idea.  Telling the user that browser reading settings, what is announced while reading such as block quotes, can be turned on and off in document formatting is a good idea.  Showing the user how to use the NVDA menu is a good idea.  The user can then explore on his/her own.  A lot of people learn better by actively looking around than by looking at documentation. 
 
for the transition guide, write a document not a list and give a small number of NVDA commands.
If you want to give the Window-eyes commands in the document, there's no harm but as I said, the user knows them.  All the user needs is to be told that read title bar in NVDA is insert t, if using the default desktop layout.  He needs to be told that announce time is NVDA key 12.  He already knows the Window-eyes command. 
 
You may want to give the NVDA laptop commands for these small number of commands as well.  Perhaps you should.  I haven't given that matter any thought.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

Howdy Gene,


Thanks much bro, I appreciate you checking in.


When I first started thinking of this idea, it went back to a chart that I had read of keyboard equivalents between jaws and window eyes some years ago.  At that time I was a full blown window eyes user, and had to learn jaws for a job.  I used that chart to make the transition easier for myself and the rest I picked up through tutorials. So I fully understand what you're saying and I think we can make this work. Lots of what you mention about setting up NVDA, working with synthesizers etc.  is on the accessibilitycentral.net website, so we really don't need to re-invent the wheel there. However, there are a few things in browse mode in window eyes that behave slightly different than NVDA. Here are a few samples that even had me saying what?



The List option in NVDA is l and the list item option is I.  That makes perfect sense. 



In window eyes, though the list item is I, the list command is S.


With Landmarks, in NVDA it's d and shift-d conversely in window eyes, it's semicolon and shift-semicolon which completely divert from any single letter navigation choices I've seen. I'm going to take your suggestion and try and scale things down a bit. But no more tonight, It's late here in Philadelphia, and I've gotta recharge the batteries. Thanks much man!




On 5/24/2017 11:43 PM, Gene wrote:

I'm not sure what you are creating.  You speak of a chart and that it is eight pages long.  Evidently, you will send it to all who request it.  I'll probably write off list and do so.  But I really don't think anything that long is needed nor desirable to provide a transition.  In my opinion, the following should be discussed not in a chart, but in a document:
How to set speech parameters including synthesizer, reading speed and punctuation, how to open the menu.  How to unload NVDA and how to run it.  A brief discussion of the talking installer.  Not much, but that you will be asked if you want to create a portable version or install the screen-reader.
Aside from that, the following commands should be briefly stated:
Read current line.  Read previous line, read next line.
Read current word, next word and previous word.  The same with characters.  the pattern may be very briefly noted.
Read title bar and that pressing the command twice quickly will spell the title bar.  Pressing it three times copies the title bar text to the clipboard.
Very little discussion of browse mode need be done.  the commands are very similar or perhaps just about identical.  It should be explained how to make each link appear on its own line.  It should be explained how to stop automatic switching between browse and function mode and how to switch to words to notify the user when he is in browse mode or focus mode. 
 
Screen review may be described but it might be better to refer the user to something like the chapter in the tutorial Joseph Lee did on the subject.  It is still available on line.  Object review as well can be referred to a chapter in the tutorial. 
A brief discussion of the NVDA users' list should be given and the syntax to join.
 
I wouldn't do anything other than what I've mentioned unless I happen to think of something that I've forgotten in this disscussion but even if I did, I would do very little more.  This document is to provide a transition, not to teach Windows nor NVDA in detail.  It's purpose is to allow Window-eyes users to be able to use NVDA and refer them to resources for teaching such things as object navigation.  If it is too long and detailed, it may discourage some people from making the transition.  The purpose is to allow basic NVDA use in as short a time and with as little to learn as possible. 
 
I should add one more thing that should be mentioned.  It should be pointed out that input help is available and that you use it in the same way as in Window-eyes.  I believe the command is the same but whether it is or not, the user should be told the following:
To go into input help, use insert 1 meaning 1 on the main keyboard.  Either insert may be used.  An example of use may be given.  When in browse mode, for example, every browse mode letter such as h for heading, b for button, etc. will name the command when pressed.  the user may, if he/she wishes, push every letter of the alphabet to see what the quick navigation commands are.  they are almost identical to Windo-eyes but this will allow the user to be aware of any differences in an engaged and interactive, not a passive way. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

Hi


Food for thought. I do have a full list of windows commands i would have to check for windows 7, 8 and 10 that can be inserted into a page if its a webpage.


If you want them i can drop box them to you.


I know what you mean by 8 pages and counting the object navigation takes a little getting used to and i do not think there is some thing like that in other screen readers.

I thought some one said the idea was burrowed from voice over?


Text review is pretty good as it lets you read stuff that you can not with the system focus, but people have to get there head around that you can review a whole page without say moving the carrot cursor but you can not edit with it.


Gene nz



On 25/05/2017 1:35 PM, Tony Ballou wrote:

howdy Mate,


I've started working on the chart and would like your input and feedback on it so far. Because of it's length, 8 pages and probably counting, it is far too long to post here. I'm basically concentrating on the things I'm totally familiar with in both screen readers and leaving the review and object navigation modes for another time.  I for now just want to give anyone who is coming from window eyes to NVDA enough ammunition to get going and begin to feel comfortable with using the program. 


In my own personal experience, I learned NVDA by knowing all of the basic windows commands, and studying the help documentation that came with it. And as a new weapon of choice, I've added the accessibilitycentral.net website to my arsenal of darn near all things NVDA.


Contact me off list at cyberpro224@... if you want to give this a go.


Tony




On 5/24/2017 1:49 PM, Gene wrote:
I don't think describing how to use object navigation is a good idea in this context.  Giving resources for those interested, such as the tutorial chapter done by Joseph Lee would probably be a much better idea in terms of use of those creating such materials' time.  Also, the user in most cases, doesn't have to know about object navigation when first making the transition.  Better not to overload the user with a difficult concept to teach such as this at the outset. 
 
Using screen review mode can easily be explained in a work such as you are creating and it must be emphasized that after using screen review, the user must return to object navigation mode because if this isn't done, NVDA won't work properly in various contexts.  So just explaining how to enter screen review, numpad insert numpad 7 executed until you hear that there are no more review modes, then give the review commands to read current line, move to and read next line, etc. could be given.  How to move the mouse and click it could also be given. 
 
then how to return to object navigation, numpad insert 1 repeated until there are no more review modes would be done when finished.
 
It is better not to give Window-eyes and NVDA equivalent commands in the context of screen-review.  There are many equivalent commands but going into screen-review and returning to object navigation has no equivalent in Window-eyes.  this might be pointed out.  As for movement commands, the Window-eyes user will recognize equivalents such as read current line without the tutorial pointing out the actual Window-eyes command.
 
The listener or reader will know what is being discussed when the NVDA commands are given.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

Howdy Mate,


That's what I was thinking also. If there are any other window eyes users out there whether they be former like myself or current who would like to help me with this endeavor, come on in, because there's loads I don't know. I'll try to have some basic ground work for the sheet up for all of you to look at by tomorrow.   


Tony
On 5/23/2017 5:09 PM, Gene wrote:
You can't compare the Window-eyes mouse pointer to object navigation.  You can give commands in NVDA for read current line, previous line, next line, and similar review commands
 
But you have to learn object navigation on its own. 
 
Screen review should be easy to teach since it is similar.  There are different commands but it's similar in movement and concept.
 
Commands such as read to end can be given.  As for browse mode, commands are either similar or identical in Window-eyes or NVDA.  I haven't used Window-eyes to any extent for years but just listing NVDA commands such as move by heading, h, skip blocks of links, n, move to next button, b, etc. should be sufficient. It should be explained how to stop automatic going into browse mode and how to change audio indications to words. 
 
As I more or less said earlier,  most of what most users do is use program commands, Windows commands, and quick navigation commands. 
 
In my opinion, that is the first important point to be made.
Maybe I'll try writing something.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

Hi,


Give me a couple of days, Let me see what I can come up with


Tony


On 5/23/2017 2:38 PM, Brandon Cross wrote:
Yeah, agreed, I tried window eyes briefly, not enough to get a grasp on it, but if anyone did know both intimately, it would be a worthwhile venture to make a little cheat sheet, or more if needed. An article of sourts maybe.

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 7:40 PM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Amen!

I will be here to help anyone coming from Window-Eyes to switch to NVDA for their screen reader. I hope this does become a great way to promote NVDA and get many more people acquainted with it.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Andre Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 2:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi everyone.

 

Although I was never a Window-Eyes user, strictly NVDA, I feel that

providing material, similarly to how VFO provided some nice

transitional material to help transition to JAWS is a very good idea

for NVDA. This will be especially beneficial to those persons who are

using the Free for Office Edition. As there is a page on the wiki and

NVDACon, I hope this suggestion can come to reality, as there is a

good opportunity to extend NVDA's reach and popularity, as well as

reporting features and bugs.

 

 

 






--
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net. Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations or location is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries | Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa -


Re: Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Of course in my personal view, the amount of non nvda conversations here is growing and it might be a better idea to set up a different list for comments rather than requests for help.
Or on the other hand set up one for requests for help and use this for comments.

The majority of people I know are not that happy playing with parameters ona web site interface. Of course one can filter locally, but that can be hit and miss of course.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Ballou" <cyberpro224@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io


Howdy Brian,


Thanks for these tips, man you've just help me cut down on quite of bit of mail.


Tony

On 5/24/2017 11:46 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Hello All,

I know that most folks participate by e-mail, but there are some features related to how your individual messages or digests are delivered to you that cannot be controlled by the e-mail interface but where you must log in to your Groups.io account and go to your subscription page. If you have never logged in to the site and don’t have a password, please see the section on doing just that, which is toward the end of this message, first.

Using the Advanced Preferences for e-mail delivery gives you very precise control over which messages will make it to your inbox and can allow you to significantly decrease the amount of e-mail you receive from a high-traffic group while allowing you to decide what's important enough to keep an eye on.


Advanced Preferences for Your Group Subscription



Once you get to the main Groups.io webpage, http://groups.io<http://groups.io/>, you will need to navigate to the Log in (two words) button and activate it. Once you’ve entered your username, which is the e-mail address you’ve used to subscribe to the group(s) you routinely read, and password, then hit the Log in button beneath them you will be taken to the “Your Groups” page.

1. Do a screen reader find for “Your Groups” which takes you to the “Your Groups” dropdown button and activate it. Arrow down through the list of groups to select the one for which you wish to set up your advanced preferences. You will have to start back at this step for each group for which you wish to set up the advanced mail preferences.

2. Do a screen reader find for “Subscription” link and activate it.

3. Just so you’re aware these are on this page, there is a radio button cluster for the regular delivery options: All Messages, Full Featured Digest, Plain Digest, Daily Summary, Special Notices Only, No email. This is immediately followed by two checkboxes related to using a signature: Use signature for web posting and Use signature for e-mail posting. These are followed by the signature edit box, should you wish to set up a signature that goes on to all your messages if you check one of the previously mentioned checkboxes.

4. Do a screen reader find for “Advanced” which will take you to the Advanced Preferences link. Activate it.

5. There are three major sections to the advanced preferences:

a. Message Selection. There are two radio buttons: All Messages and Following Only. If the first is selected then every message sent to the group will be sent to you in the format you selected for e-mail delivery. If you select Following Only then the only messages you will receive are messages you’ve chosen to follow. There is a checkbox associated with “Following Only,” “First Message Also.” If this checkbox is checked it serves as a selective override such that the first message in any new topic is sent to you so that you can see it and elect to follow it with the link at the end of the message if you wish to keep monitoring this topic.

b. Replies. There is a checkbox, “Auto follow replies,” which will make any topic that you start yourself, or any topic in which you reply to a message, followed. This checkbox is generally only used if you have elected to use the “Following Only” feature for message selection.

c. Max Attachment Size (only for groups that allow attachments). This is followed by a dropdown box that allows you to choose from four different maximum sizes for attachments to be delivered to you via e-mail. The default is unlimited size. If you’re using an internet service with data caps you may wish to change this. If you choose the zero option it means that all attachments will be stripped before a message is sent to you.

6. Find the “Save” button and activate it to save these settings.

As you can see, if you choose a setup where you have elected to get messages with the “Following Only” option combined with the “First message also” checkbox this will greatly decrease the flow of e-mail you receive while allowing you to decide for each topic whether you wish to follow it to receive further messages or not. If you do nothing then you will not receive any additional messages for that particular topic unless you hit the link to follow it at the end of the message or reply to it, if the “auto follow replies” option was checked.



Getting a Password to Log in to the Groups.io Website

If you’ve subscribed via e-mail you have a Groups.io login id, your e-mail address, but you’ve never been assigned a password for the website. To get one:

1. In your web browser, go to the Groups.io main site login page: https://groups.io/login

2. Find the “Forgot your password?” link and activate it.

3. A page with a single edit box, e-mail address will open. Enter your e-mail address in it.

4. Navigate to the one and only button on the page, “Email Link to Log In,” and activate it.



5. Watch your e-mail, including your spam/junk box, for a message from Groups.io that will contain a link you need to activate that takes you to your Groups.io profile page where you set your password. This is the password you’ll use to log in to any Groups.io group webpage where you wish to do something, such as changing your preferences, that requires you to be logged in to do. You are, at this stage, actually logged in.

--
Brian Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

~ Mark Twain








Re: NVDA 2017.2 RC1 and Edge, a navigation problem

Felix G.
 

Hello,
now since this is a fully installed version I used, not a portable one, this doesn't factor into the problem, but thank you for the suggestion.
Kind regards,
Felix

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...> schrieb am Mi., 24. Mai 2017 um 17:40 Uhr:

I think you should be OK doing that. I've certainly done it on 7 and I used
the old version of revo as well.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2017.2 RC1 and Edge, a navigation problem


> Will try that, just to be sure.
> Is there currently a recommended way of completely uninstalling NVDA,
> including deleting all settings? My unofficial way is to uninstall then
> delete the NVDA folder from %appdata% but that doesn't feel entirely
> clean.
> I've done it on a number of machines, though, without repercussions.
> Kind regards,
> Felix
>
> Jessica D <jldail13@...> schrieb am Mi., 24. Mai 2017 um 15:49 Uhr:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> Did you try restarting NVDA?
>>
>>
>>
>> Did you restart your computer?
>>
>>
>>
>> Did you try to close and relaunch Edge?
>>
>>
>>
>> If none of that works, completely uninstall and re-install NVDA, using
>> the
>> copy for the release candidate as your main copy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Felix G. <constantlyvariable@...>
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, May 24, 2017 9:45 AM
>> *To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> *Subject: *[nvda] NVDA 2017.2 RC1 and Edge, a navigation problem
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> could someone please advise on what I might be doing wrong, or where I
>> may
>> be expecting the wrong outcome, in the following scenario?
>>
>> With Edge I go to www.heise.de. I know from Firefox and Chrome experience
>> that there are lots of headings, but when I then press h nothing happens,
>> and afterwards navigation with the arrow keys stops working. I am
>> reluctant
>> to assume a bug as I assume heading navigation has been tested
>> extensively
>> for this RC. Any ideas what might be going on?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Felix
>>
>>
>>
>>
>