Hey Gene,

This is really working brother I like it! 

Here is my mostly finished draft of a transition guide for users of Window-eyes.  Comments and suggestions are welcome.  I'll send it to the list in its final form for distribution by whomever wants to do so.

 

the brief tutorial begins below my signature.

Gene

 

Moving from Window-eyes to NVDA
A very short tutorial telling you just what you need to know to do a lot of what

 

you did before.

 

Many people are apprehensive about switching to NVDA or any other screen-reader

 

from Window-eyes.  This tutorial will explain and demonstrate that such

 

apprehensions are largely based on misunderstandings. 

 

Before I discuss the misunderstanding that causes most of this apprehension, I'll

 

briefly discuss installing NVDA and changing the synthesizer used and speech

 

parameters.

 

NVDA has a talking installer.  run the file as you would any installation file. 

 

you may get a dialog asking if you want to run the file.  Use the command alt r

 

for run.  If you get a UAC prompt, answer alt y. 
Run narrator.  Then run the NVDA installer. 
when you run the installer, there will be a pause and then a bit of music will

 

play.  Not long after, the talking installer will run.  Unload Narrator at that

 

point.  return to the install dialog.
Tab through the dchoices.  Accept the license agreement and then tab to install. 

 

You will get other options but install is the one you want.
Don't stop using NvDA because of the voice.  A lot of people don't try NVDA because

 

of the voice.  As soon as you get it set up, I'll tell you how to change the

 

synthesizer used.

 

After NVDA is installed and running, it's time to learn how to change the

 

synthesizer. 
Issue the command control insert s.  Use either insert.  From now on, assume you

 

can use either insert unless I state differently.
A synthesizer selection dialog will open.
You will see a list of different possibly available synthesizers.  Choose SAPI 5. 

 

I know everyone has at least one SAPI 5 voice on their machine.  Up and down arrow

 

through the list and stop on SAPI five.  Press enter.
You will now hear another voice.  It may be the same voice you hear in Narrator. 
Now issue the command control insert v.
You are now in the voice selection and adjustment dialog. 
Up and down arrow to see what voices are available.  Stop on the one you want. 
Now tab through the dialog and change settings for the voice. 
Once you find a voice you want and tab through and set whatever you want such as

 

speed and punctuation, press the ok button. 

 

Now, let's continue with what I spoke of at the start of this tutorial.  The

 

misunderstanding that makes the switch seem daunting is that the user doesn't

 

realize that most of the commands he/she uses are Windows commands and program

 

commands and they won't change.

 

Consider the following examples:
Opening menus was and still is alt.  That's a Windows command to open menus in

 

programs.  It's the same no matter which screen-reader you use. 
Control o for open doesn't change.  Using the arrow keys to move in a document

 

doesn't change.  Tabbing through dialogs doesn't change.  Neither does how you move

 

in a list or a treeview or work with a combo box, and the list goes on. 
Screen-reader commands, many of which may change, such as read title bar, provide

 

access to information you can't get or can't get conveniently by using Windows or

 

program commands.  for example, read title bar.  In Window-eyes, the command is

 

control shift t.  In NVDA, it's insert t.  I am assuming throughout this tutorial

 

that you are using the default desktop layout in NVDA.  All commands are given in

 

that layout.  The title bar is something a sighted person looks at.  You can't move

 

to it with the pc cursor or application cursor, whatever you wish to call it,

 

because there is no need.  A sighted person can just see it.  So the screen-reader

 

has a command, read title bar.  That command is not a Windows nor a program

 

command.

 

Here are the screen-reader commands you will need to know to allow you to do a lot

 

of what you did before.
Read title bar, insert t. 
Time, insert f12. 
Read current Window, insert b.  In Window-eyes the command is control shift w. 
Read to end, insert down arrow.  Use the down arrow on the main keyboard.
Stop speech with control, as with screen-readers in general. 
Commands such as control home, control end, control left and right arrow are

 

Windows movement commands for moving in any standard edit field including word

 

processor edit fields.  None of them will change.
More screen-reader commands:
Screen review commands:
Note the pattern as I give these commands:
Read previous line, numpad 7. 
Read current line, numpad 8.
Read next line numpad nine.
You move in screen review to the previous or next line when you issue those

 

commands.  You can keep moving and reading until you get to the top or bottom of

 

the screen.
Read previous word, numpad 4.
Read current word, numpad 5.
Read next word, numpad 6.
Read previous character, numpad 1.
Read current character, numpad 2.
Read next character, numpad 3.
Note the pattern.  Read current is the key in the middle of each of these rows.
Move to and read previous is the key on the left. 
Move to and read next is the key to the right.
The lower the numbers the smaller the movement unit.  1 2 and 3 move by character. 

 

4 5 and 6 move by word.  Etc.
Here are two more important commands:
Jump to top of window, shift numpad 7.
Jump to bottom of window is shift numpad 9.

 

I've said top and bottom of Window but that's oversimplified.  It depends what kind

 

of review mode you are using.  I won't go into that to any extent in this very

 

short tutorial. 
that is the one you should be in usually.  Unless you change it, you will remain

 

there.  If you use another review mode, afterword, make sure you return to object

 

reviewIf you don't, you won't hear what you expect to hear at various times. 
To make sure you are in object review, issue the command numpad insert nummpad 1. 

 

When you are already in object review and can't move to another review mode, you

 

will hear no previous review mode.  You will then know you are in the right one. 

 

Or if you are returning from another review mode, when you hear object review, you

 

will know you are back in the right one.
I won't describe its use here, but screen review is similar not in commands, but in

 

how you review the screen to the Window-eyes cursor.  Object review is different

 

from any review mode available in Window-eyes.  It is valuable to know for various

 

uses.  Depending on how you use your computer, you may find it valuable or not.  I'm

 

simply making you aware that it is different and that you may want to learn it.

 

I'll provide a resource that teaches in great detail how to use NVDA.
This tutorial is to get you going using NVDA and to show you that even with the

 

little I will teach, you can still do a good deal of what you used to do.  You may

 

then learn more as you wish.

 

Believe it or not, that is just about all I will teach in this very short tutorial

 

but  I'll tell you a few more things.
Internet browsing:
When you are on a web page, quick navigation commands are almost identical whether

 

you are using NVDA or Window-eyes. 
Move by headings is h.  Skip blocks of links is n. 
Move to next button is b, 
Next combo box is c.
Next check box is x.
NVDA has an input help mode which is similar to what is in Window-eyes.  Insert and

 

1 on the main keyboard turns it on.  When you press a key or combination of keys

 

that might be a command, you will hear what the keys are and what, if any command

 

they execute.  This varies cdepending on where you are.
When in a browser that supports browse mode, typing a lot of individual letters

 

will give you information about what the keys do in browse mode.  I already gave

 

much of that information above but you may want to press a lot of keys using input

 

mode in a browser. 

 

To turn input mode off use the same command you used to turn it on, insert 1.

 

to learn more about NVDA, a popular tutorial is available at (insert URL.) 
On that page, you will see links to download different sections dealing with

 

different subjects.  You can also download the entire tutorial as a zip file.

 

There is also an e-mail list for NVDA users.  To join, send a blank message to this

 

address:
nvda+subscribe@nvda.groups.io

 

I hope that this tutorial has removed much of your apprehension about switching to

 

NVDA.  Now, as you wish or need, you may consult the tutorial I gave a link to. 

 

NVDA is a powerful screen-reader and it will meet a lot of users needs as well as

 

JAWS or Window-eyes does.  I hope this very short tutorial gives you a good

 

foundation on which to build confidence that the transition should be much easier

 

than you may have thought and that it will help make it much more enjoyable.

Here is my mostly finished draft of a transition guide for users of Window-eyes.  Comments and suggestions are welcome.  I'll send it to the list in its final form for distribution by whomever wants to do so.

 

the brief tutorial begins below my signature.

Gene

 

Moving from Window-eyes to NVDA
A very short tutorial telling you just what you need to know to do a lot of what

 

you did before.

 

Many people are apprehensive about switching to NVDA or any other screen-reader

 

from Window-eyes.  This tutorial will explain and demonstrate that such

 

apprehensions are largely based on misunderstandings. 

 

Before I discuss the misunderstanding that causes most of this apprehension, I'll

 

briefly discuss installing NVDA and changing the synthesizer used and speech

 

parameters.

 

NVDA has a talking installer.  run the file as you would any installation file. 

 

you may get a dialog asking if you want to run the file.  Use the command alt r

 

for run.  If you get a UAC prompt, answer alt y. 
Run narrator.  Then run the NVDA installer. 
when you run the installer, there will be a pause and then a bit of music will

 

play.  Not long after, the talking installer will run.  Unload Narrator at that

 

point.  return to the install dialog.
Tab through the dchoices.  Accept the license agreement and then tab to install. 

 

You will get other options but install is the one you want.
Don't stop using NvDA because of the voice.  A lot of people don't try NVDA because

 

of the voice.  As soon as you get it set up, I'll tell you how to change the

 

synthesizer used.

 

After NVDA is installed and running, it's time to learn how to change the

 

synthesizer. 
Issue the command control insert s.  Use either insert.  From now on, assume you

 

can use either insert unless I state differently.
A synthesizer selection dialog will open.
You will see a list of different possibly available synthesizers.  Choose SAPI 5. 

 

I know everyone has at least one SAPI 5 voice on their machine.  Up and down arrow

 

through the list and stop on SAPI five.  Press enter.
You will now hear another voice.  It may be the same voice you hear in Narrator. 
Now issue the command control insert v.
You are now in the voice selection and adjustment dialog. 
Up and down arrow to see what voices are available.  Stop on the one you want. 
Now tab through the dialog and change settings for the voice. 
Once you find a voice you want and tab through and set whatever you want such as

 

speed and punctuation, press the ok button. 

 

Now, let's continue with what I spoke of at the start of this tutorial.  The

 

misunderstanding that makes the switch seem daunting is that the user doesn't

 

realize that most of the commands he/she uses are Windows commands and program

 

commands and they won't change.

 

Consider the following examples:
Opening menus was and still is alt.  That's a Windows command to open menus in

 

programs.  It's the same no matter which screen-reader you use. 
Control o for open doesn't change.  Using the arrow keys to move in a document

 

doesn't change.  Tabbing through dialogs doesn't change.  Neither does how you move

 

in a list or a treeview or work with a combo box, and the list goes on. 
Screen-reader commands, many of which may change, such as read title bar, provide

 

access to information you can't get or can't get conveniently by using Windows or

 

program commands.  for example, read title bar.  In Window-eyes, the command is

 

control shift t.  In NVDA, it's insert t.  I am assuming throughout this tutorial

 

that you are using the default desktop layout in NVDA.  All commands are given in

 

that layout.  The title bar is something a sighted person looks at.  You can't move

 

to it with the pc cursor or application cursor, whatever you wish to call it,

 

because there is no need.  A sighted person can just see it.  So the screen-reader

 

has a command, read title bar.  That command is not a Windows nor a program

 

command.

 

Here are the screen-reader commands you will need to know to allow you to do a lot

 

of what you did before.
Read title bar, insert t. 
Time, insert f12. 
Read current Window, insert b.  In Window-eyes the command is control shift w. 
Read to end, insert down arrow.  Use the down arrow on the main keyboard.
Stop speech with control, as with screen-readers in general. 
Commands such as control home, control end, control left and right arrow are

 

Windows movement commands for moving in any standard edit field including word

 

processor edit fields.  None of them will change.
More screen-reader commands:
Screen review commands:
Note the pattern as I give these commands:
Read previous line, numpad 7. 
Read current line, numpad 8.
Read next line numpad nine.
You move in screen review to the previous or next line when you issue those

 

commands.  You can keep moving and reading until you get to the top or bottom of

 

the screen.
Read previous word, numpad 4.
Read current word, numpad 5.
Read next word, numpad 6.
Read previous character, numpad 1.
Read current character, numpad 2.
Read next character, numpad 3.
Note the pattern.  Read current is the key in the middle of each of these rows.
Move to and read previous is the key on the left. 
Move to and read next is the key to the right.
The lower the numbers the smaller the movement unit.  1 2 and 3 move by character. 

 

4 5 and 6 move by word.  Etc.
Here are two more important commands:
Jump to top of window, shift numpad 7.
Jump to bottom of window is shift numpad 9.

 

I've said top and bottom of Window but that's oversimplified.  It depends what kind

 

of review mode you are using.  I won't go into that to any extent in this very

 

short tutorial. 
that is the one you should be in usually.  Unless you change it, you will remain

 

there.  If you use another review mode, afterword, make sure you return to object

 

reviewIf you don't, you won't hear what you expect to hear at various times. 
To make sure you are in object review, issue the command numpad insert nummpad 1. 

 

When you are already in object review and can't move to another review mode, you

 

will hear no previous review mode.  You will then know you are in the right one. 

 

Or if you are returning from another review mode, when you hear object review, you

 

will know you are back in the right one.
I won't describe its use here, but screen review is similar not in commands, but in

 

how you review the screen to the Window-eyes cursor.  Object review is different

 

from any review mode available in Window-eyes.  It is valuable to know for various

 

uses.  Depending on how you use your computer, you may find it valuable or not.  I'm

 

simply making you aware that it is different and that you may want to learn it.

 

I'll provide a resource that teaches in great detail how to use NVDA.
This tutorial is to get you going using NVDA and to show you that even with the

 

little I will teach, you can still do a good deal of what you used to do.  You may

 

then learn more as you wish.

 

Believe it or not, that is just about all I will teach in this very short tutorial

 

but  I'll tell you a few more things.
Internet browsing:
When you are on a web page, quick navigation commands are almost identical whether

 

you are using NVDA or Window-eyes. 
Move by headings is h.  Skip blocks of links is n. 
Move to next button is b, 
Next combo box is c.
Next check box is x.
NVDA has an input help mode which is similar to what is in Window-eyes.  Insert and

 

1 on the main keyboard turns it on.  When you press a key or combination of keys

 

that might be a command, you will hear what the keys are and what, if any command

 

they execute.  This varies cdepending on where you are.
When in a browser that supports browse mode, typing a lot of individual letters

 

will give you information about what the keys do in browse mode.  I already gave

 

much of that information above but you may want to press a lot of keys using input

 

mode in a browser. 

 

To turn input mode off use the same command you used to turn it on, insert 1.

 

to learn more about NVDA, a popular tutorial is available at (insert URL.) 
On that page, you will see links to download different sections dealing with

 

different subjects.  You can also download the entire tutorial as a zip file.

 

There is also an e-mail list for NVDA users.  To join, send a blank message to this

 

address:
nvda+subscribe@nvda.groups.io

 

I hope that this tutorial has removed much of your apprehension about switching to

 

NVDA.  Now, as you wish or need, you may consult the tutorial I gave a link to. 

 

NVDA is a powerful screen-reader and it will meet a lot of users needs as well as

 

JAWS or Window-eyes does.  I hope this very short tutorial gives you a good

 

foundation on which to build confidence that the transition should be much easier

 

than you may have thought and that it will help make it much more enjoyable.

Greetings all,



I am an adaptive technology instructor in Colorado,
and am attempting to use NVDA to meet client needs.



While attempting to demonstrate NVDA on a PC with
multiple accounts I was changing the built in voices and received an
error message saying I needed to enter a password in order to use the
True Voice selected. The dialog box continued to reappear despite
trying to dismiss it, and NVDA was subsequently unresponsive. I have
attempted removing NVDA from all the accounts on the computer,
reinstalling it from the web site, and I continue to get the same error
message.



Anyone have any work arounds or ideas? My thanks for
the assistance.



George McDermith

Adaptive Technology Specialist

Phone: 303-866-4999



2211 West Evans Avenue Bldg A

Denver, CO 80223

*Please click here to tell us how we’re doing.
<https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/5779VYB>;*

Hi Tonyy and all interested parties:

The link is:
www.gwmicro.com/window-eyes/migrate. You will find some good
tutorials on that page.
Kevin Huber


On 5/18/17, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 12:20 pm, Tony Ballou wrote:

Is there a link out there for them?

I can't find anything obvious on the Freedom Scientific website under either
support or training with regard to being a new JAWS user coming from using
one screen reader to another.
--
Brian Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit



* * *Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and
many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome,
charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one
little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.*

* ~ Mark Twain*

Hi Kevin,


Thanks, Someone had said that there were some tutorials covering
migrating from window eyes to jaws up there however, none of us had the
link now we do. You never know what may come in handy around here.


Tony


On 5/25/2017 2:41 PM, Kevin Huber wrote:

Hi Tonyy and all interested parties:

The link is:
www.gwmicro.com/window-eyes/migrate. You will find some good
tutorials on that page.
Kevin Huber


On 5/18/17, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 12:20 pm, Tony Ballou wrote:

Is there a link out there for them?

I can't find anything obvious on the Freedom Scientific website under
either
support or training with regard to being a new JAWS user coming from
using
one screen reader to another.
--
Brian Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit



* * *Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness,
and
many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome,
charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in
one
little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.*

* ~ Mark Twain*

Hi Tonyy and all interested parties:

The link is:
www.gwmicro.com/window-eyes/migrate. You will find some good
tutorials on that page.
Kevin Huber


On 5/18/17, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 12:20 pm, Tony Ballou wrote:

Is there a link out there for them?

I can't find anything obvious on the Freedom Scientific website under either
support or training with regard to being a new JAWS user coming from using
one screen reader to another.
--
Brian Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit



* * *Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and
many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome,
charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one
little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.*

* ~ Mark Twain*

On May 25, 2017, at 3:15 PM, Jessica D <jldail13@...> wrote:

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Greg Wocher
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 3:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help pairing and using Xamarin live player with visualstudio on windows

 

Hello,

 

Here is the website where you can find the download links for the 

various versions of Visual Studio for the mac.

 

https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/visual-studio-mac/

 

 

Regards,

 

Greg Wocher

 

 

On 5/25/2017 7:59 AM, Jessica D wrote:

> Hi,

> Can you please provide written instructions, on how to get setup, including any download links for software, that way I can ensure I'm going to the right place to download what I need.

> The last time I tried the preview, you couldn't read the start screen with voiceover.

> Is this still the case?

> 

> Sent from my iPhone

> 

>> On May 25, 2017, at 7:02 AM, Greg Wocher <gwocher@...> wrote:

>> 

>> Hello,

>> 

>> If you are saying that Visual Studio on the mac is inaccessible, you would be in error. The newest version of Visual Studio 2017 on the mac is quite accessible. I have it installed on my mac book air running the latest version of Sierra. The reason you have to use it is that the Visual Studio on mac is based on xamarin.

>> 

>> 

>> Regards,

>> 

>> Greg Wocher

>> 

>> 

>>> On 5/25/2017 3:28 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:

>>> If the Apple lot  have not rapped this app over the knuckles I'd ignore it myself. The only way to get these people to toe the line is to ignore them and use some other solution.

>>> Brian

>>> 

>>> bglists@...

>>> Sent via blueyonder.

>>> Please address personal email to:-

>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

>>> in the display name field.

>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica D" <jldail13@...>

>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:33 PM

>>> Subject: [nvda] help pairing and using Xamarin live player with visual studio on windows

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Hi,

>>> 

>>> As some may have heard, Microsoft has released a new app.

>>> This app is called “Xamarin live player.”

>>> 

>>> It’s available for both ios and android.

>>> 

>>> I’m trying to pair visual studio  on Windows, which I’m running through VMwware fusion, to my iPhone so I can use the app, but everything I’ve found says that you have to use the mac version, which is totally enaccessible with voiceover.

>>> 

>>> What should I do?

>>> 

>>> Does this app work under Windows?

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

 

 

 

 

Are there any vocalizer voices for NVDA?

Hello NVDA Group,

I am looking for a set of instructions -user-friendly for sightless
NVDA users that would tell someone how to set up a digital signature
in a document for others to add their signature and date, then return
by email attachment. It is for a Publisher Agreement.

I also wonder would it be best to send this as a doc file or RTF since
not everyone can use PDF?
Thanks in advance. I need an answer within a few hours.

Hello,

Here is the website where you can find the download links for the

various versions of Visual Studio for the mac.

https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/visual-studio-mac/

Regards,

Greg Wocher

On 5/25/2017 7:59 AM, Jessica D wrote:

> Hi,

> Can you please provide written instructions, on how to get setup, including any download links for software, that way I can ensure I'm going to the right place to download what I need.

> The last time I tried the preview, you couldn't read the start screen with voiceover.

> Is this still the case?

> 

> Sent from my iPhone

> 

>> On May 25, 2017, at 7:02 AM, Greg Wocher <gwocher@...> wrote:

>> 

>> Hello,

>> 

>> If you are saying that Visual Studio on the mac is inaccessible, you would be in error. The newest version of Visual Studio 2017 on the mac is quite accessible. I have it installed on my mac book air running the latest version of Sierra. The reason you have to use it is that the Visual Studio on mac is based on xamarin.

>> 

>> 

>> Regards,

>> 

>> Greg Wocher

>> 

>> 

>>> On 5/25/2017 3:28 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:

>>> If the Apple lot  have not rapped this app over the knuckles I'd ignore it myself. The only way to get these people to toe the line is to ignore them and use some other solution.

>>> Brian

>>> 

>>> bglists@...

>>> Sent via blueyonder.

>>> Please address personal email to:-

>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

>>> in the display name field.

>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica D" <jldail13@...>

>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:33 PM

>>> Subject: [nvda] help pairing and using Xamarin live player with visual studio on windows

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Hi,

>>> 

>>> As some may have heard, Microsoft has released a new app.

>>> This app is called “Xamarin live player.”

>>> 

>>> It’s available for both ios and android.

>>> 

>>> I’m trying to pair visual studio  on Windows, which I’m running through VMwware fusion, to my iPhone so I can use the app, but everything I’ve found says that you have to use the mac version, which is totally enaccessible with voiceover.

>>> 

>>> What should I do?

>>> 

>>> Does this app work under Windows?

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>

> 

Hi,
Can you please provide written instructions, on how to get setup, including any download links for software, that way I can ensure I'm going to the right place to download what I need.
The last time I tried the preview, you couldn't read the start screen with voiceover.
Is this still the case?

Sent from my iPhone

On May 25, 2017, at 7:02 AM, Greg Wocher <gwocher@gwocher.com> wrote:

Hello,

If you are saying that Visual Studio on the mac is inaccessible, you would be in error. The newest version of Visual Studio 2017 on the mac is quite accessible. I have it installed on my mac book air running the latest version of Sierra. The reason you have to use it is that the Visual Studio on mac is based on xamarin.


Regards,

Greg Wocher

On 5/25/2017 3:28 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
If the Apple lot have not rapped this app over the knuckles I'd ignore it myself. The only way to get these people to toe the line is to ignore them and use some other solution.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica D" <jldail13@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:33 PM
Subject: [nvda] help pairing and using Xamarin live player with visual studio on windows


Hi,

As some may have heard, Microsoft has released a new app.
This app is called “Xamarin live player.”

It’s available for both ios and android.

I’m trying to pair visual studio on Windows, which I’m running through VMwware fusion, to my iPhone so I can use the app, but everything I’ve found says that you have to use the mac version, which is totally enaccessible with voiceover.

What should I do?

Does this app work under Windows?


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 12:20 pm, Tony Ballou wrote:

Is there a link out there for them?

I can't find anything obvious on the Freedom Scientific website under either
support or training with regard to being a new JAWS user coming from using
one screen reader to another.
--
Brian Version 1703, Build 15063.296, Home 64-bit



* * *Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and
many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome,
charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one
little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.*

* ~ Mark Twain*

Hi everyone,

 

I’m delighted to announce one of the biggest releases in Windows 10 App Essentials history: version 17.06 packs numerous tweaks and lays the groundwork for supporting exciting features in Fall Creators Update (Redstone 3). More info can be found at:

https://github.com/josephsl/wintenApps/releases/tag/17.06

 

For those curious as to why I call version 17.06 one of the biggest releases yet, here’s why:

• In People app or when looking up contacts in My People (Redstone 3), NVDA will play suggestion sounds when contact suggestions appear.

• You can now use Skype commands while using My People.

• In Mail app, when writing a message, using at mentions (@) results in a list of contact suggestions appearing. NVDA will detect this and play suggestions sounds.

• Various tweaks to search field detection and handling in more apps.

• Certain workarounds are deprecated as NVDA itself will include them. These include announcing value changes for some combo boxes in Settings app. The workarounds that were part of the add-on will be removed once a stable version of NVDA that includes them is released.

• New and updated translations.

 

For those coming from Window-Eyes or other screen readers: Part of the reason why NVDA has superb support for Windows 10 is due to Windows 10 App Essentials add-on. This add-on includes features some of you have dreamed of, including improved support for various apps, a sound to indicate appearance of search results, and cutting-edge support for Microsoft Edge and other features.

 

One more thing: continuing from yesterday’s announcement on SPL add-on: as part of Project Contact Lenses, if you are using Window-Eyes and would like to taste what it is like to use NVDA with Windows 10, please write to me (or have Window-Eyes users write to me directly).

 

Enjoy the new add-on release.

Cheers,

Joseph

Hi,

Another inspirational document is:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda-community/wiki/SwitchingFromJawsToNVDA

If you haven’t used it, try using this page as a blueprint.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 7:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi Joseph,

 

Thanks, I've got all of  those tools in my arsenal and have been using them to teach my clients who are new as well as myself and they have helped me tremendously. In fact, your audio tutorial was the first piece of info that really helped me to grasp some of the NVDA concepts in full, and I can't thank  you enough my friend for that. 2 months ago, I got both books, and I discovered the accessibility central website last month.

 

I don't think that I can due to time constraints and my other projects that I have going on could ever write a full tutorial covering a complete transition from window eyes to NVDA. But, if I can produce a good piece of documentation that's easy to follow, makes sense, sets the readers mind at ease about making the jump, and isn't a bear to follow, then I will be able to say that I've done something right.

 

Tony      

 

On 5/25/2017 12:41 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Tony,

I am the author/producer of Welcome to NVDA tutorial series Gene mentioned. I’d like to seriously recommend that you listen to the entire series (2015 edition), as it gives you a more in-depth knowledge of NVDA and in hopes that you can use concepts I talk about to make the transition document even better.

The tutorial set can be found at:

http://www.josephsl.net/tutorials/

 

Also, I’d like to advise you to purchase and read Basic Training Module for NVDA produced by NV Access, as it teaches you Windows and app basics with NVDA.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 9:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Howdy Gene,

 

Thanks much bro, I appreciate you checking in.

 

When I first started thinking of this idea, it went back to a chart that I had read of keyboard equivalents between jaws and window eyes some years ago.  At that time I was a full blown window eyes user, and had to learn jaws for a job.  I used that chart to make the transition easier for myself and the rest I picked up through tutorials. So I fully understand what you're saying and I think we can make this work. Lots of what you mention about setting up NVDA, working with synthesizers etc.  is on the accessibilitycentral.net website, so we really don't need to re-invent the wheel there. However, there are a few things in browse mode in window eyes that behave slightly different than NVDA. Here are a few samples that even had me saying what?

 

 

The List option in NVDA is l and the list item option is I.  That makes perfect sense. 

 

 

In window eyes, though the list item is I, the list command is S.

 

With Landmarks, in NVDA it's d and shift-d conversely in window eyes, it's semicolon and shift-semicolon which completely divert from any single letter navigation choices I've seen. I'm going to take your suggestion and try and scale things down a bit. But no more tonight, It's late here in Philadelphia, and I've gotta recharge the batteries. Thanks much man!

 

 

 

On 5/24/2017 11:43 PM, Gene wrote:

I'm not sure what you are creating.  You speak of a chart and that it is eight pages long.  Evidently, you will send it to all who request it.  I'll probably write off list and do so.  But I really don't think anything that long is needed nor desirable to provide a transition.  In my opinion, the following should be discussed not in a chart, but in a document:

How to set speech parameters including synthesizer, reading speed and punctuation, how to open the menu.  How to unload NVDA and how to run it.  A brief discussion of the talking installer.  Not much, but that you will be asked if you want to create a portable version or install the screen-reader.

Aside from that, the following commands should be briefly stated:

Read current line.  Read previous line, read next line.

Read current word, next word and previous word.  The same with characters.  the pattern may be very briefly noted.

Read title bar and that pressing the command twice quickly will spell the title bar.  Pressing it three times copies the title bar text to the clipboard.

Very little discussion of browse mode need be done.  the commands are very similar or perhaps just about identical.  It should be explained how to make each link appear on its own line.  It should be explained how to stop automatic switching between browse and function mode and how to switch to words to notify the user when he is in browse mode or focus mode. 

 

Screen review may be described but it might be better to refer the user to something like the chapter in the tutorial Joseph Lee did on the subject.  It is still available on line.  Object review as well can be referred to a chapter in the tutorial. 

A brief discussion of the NVDA users' list should be given and the syntax to join.

 

I wouldn't do anything other than what I've mentioned unless I happen to think of something that I've forgotten in this disscussion but even if I did, I would do very little more.  This document is to provide a transition, not to teach Windows nor NVDA in detail.  It's purpose is to allow Window-eyes users to be able to use NVDA and refer them to resources for teaching such things as object navigation.  If it is too long and detailed, it may discourage some people from making the transition.  The purpose is to allow basic NVDA use in as short a time and with as little to learn as possible. 

 

I should add one more thing that should be mentioned.  It should be pointed out that input help is available and that you use it in the same way as in Window-eyes.  I believe the command is the same but whether it is or not, the user should be told the following:

To go into input help, use insert 1 meaning 1 on the main keyboard.  Either insert may be used.  An example of use may be given.  When in browse mode, for example, every browse mode letter such as h for heading, b for button, etc. will name the command when pressed.  the user may, if he/she wishes, push every letter of the alphabet to see what the quick navigation commands are.  they are almost identical to Windo-eyes but this will allow the user to be aware of any differences in an engaged and interactive, not a passive way. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene New Zealand

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 8:59 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi

 

Food for thought. I do have a full list of windows commands i would have to check for windows 7, 8 and 10 that can be inserted into a page if its a webpage.

 

If you want them i can drop box them to you.

 

I know what you mean by 8 pages and counting the object navigation takes a little getting used to and i do not think there is some thing like that in other screen readers.

I thought some one said the idea was burrowed from voice over?

 

Text review is pretty good as it lets you read stuff that you can not with the system focus, but people have to get there head around that you can review a whole page without say moving the carrot cursor but you can not edit with it.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 25/05/2017 1:35 PM, Tony Ballou wrote:

howdy Mate,

 

I've started working on the chart and would like your input and feedback on it so far. Because of it's length, 8 pages and probably counting, it is far too long to post here. I'm basically concentrating on the things I'm totally familiar with in both screen readers and leaving the review and object navigation modes for another time.  I for now just want to give anyone who is coming from window eyes to NVDA enough ammunition to get going and begin to feel comfortable with using the program. 

 

In my own personal experience, I learned NVDA by knowing all of the basic windows commands, and studying the help documentation that came with it. And as a new weapon of choice, I've added the accessibilitycentral.net website to my arsenal of darn near all things NVDA.

 

Contact me off list at cyberpro224@... if you want to give this a go.

 

Tony

 

 

 

On 5/24/2017 1:49 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't think describing how to use object navigation is a good idea in this context.  Giving resources for those interested, such as the tutorial chapter done by Joseph Lee would probably be a much better idea in terms of use of those creating such materials' time.  Also, the user in most cases, doesn't have to know about object navigation when first making the transition.  Better not to overload the user with a difficult concept to teach such as this at the outset. 

 

Using screen review mode can easily be explained in a work such as you are creating and it must be emphasized that after using screen review, the user must return to object navigation mode because if this isn't done, NVDA won't work properly in various contexts.  So just explaining how to enter screen review, numpad insert numpad 7 executed until you hear that there are no more review modes, then give the review commands to read current line, move to and read next line, etc. could be given.  How to move the mouse and click it could also be given. 

 

then how to return to object navigation, numpad insert 1 repeated until there are no more review modes would be done when finished.

 

It is better not to give Window-eyes and NVDA equivalent commands in the context of screen-review.  There are many equivalent commands but going into screen-review and returning to object navigation has no equivalent in Window-eyes.  this might be pointed out.  As for movement commands, the Window-eyes user will recognize equivalents such as read current line without the tutorial pointing out the actual Window-eyes command.

 

The listener or reader will know what is being discussed when the NVDA commands are given.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Ballou

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 11:32 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Howdy Mate,

 

That's what I was thinking also. If there are any other window eyes users out there whether they be former like myself or current who would like to help me with this endeavor, come on in, because there's loads I don't know. I'll try to have some basic ground work for the sheet up for all of you to look at by tomorrow.   

Tony

On 5/23/2017 5:09 PM, Gene wrote:

You can't compare the Window-eyes mouse pointer to object navigation.  You can give commands in NVDA for read current line, previous line, next line, and similar review commands

 

But you have to learn object navigation on its own. 

 

Screen review should be easy to teach since it is similar.  There are different commands but it's similar in movement and concept.

 

Commands such as read to end can be given.  As for browse mode, commands are either similar or identical in Window-eyes or NVDA.  I haven't used Window-eyes to any extent for years but just listing NVDA commands such as move by heading, h, skip blocks of links, n, move to next button, b, etc. should be sufficient. It should be explained how to stop automatic going into browse mode and how to change audio indications to words. 

 

As I more or less said earlier,  most of what most users do is use program commands, Windows commands, and quick navigation commands. 

 

In my opinion, that is the first important point to be made.

Maybe I'll try writing something.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Ballou

Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 3:42 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi,

 

Give me a couple of days, Let me see what I can come up with

Tony

On 5/23/2017 2:38 PM, Brandon Cross wrote:

Yeah, agreed, I tried window eyes briefly, not enough to get a grasp on it, but if anyone did know both intimately, it would be a worthwhile venture to make a little cheat sheet, or more if needed. An article of sourts maybe.

 

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 7:40 PM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Amen!

I will be here to help anyone coming from Window-Eyes to switch to NVDA for their screen reader. I hope this does become a great way to promote NVDA and get many more people acquainted with it.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Andre Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 2:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Window-Eyes Tutorials and Transition

 

Hi everyone.

 

Although I was never a Window-Eyes user, strictly NVDA, I feel that

providing material, similarly to how VFO provided some nice

transitional material to help transition to JAWS is a very good idea

for NVDA. This will be especially beneficial to those persons who are

using the Free for Office Edition. As there is a page on the wiki and

NVDACon, I hope this suggestion can come to reality, as there is a

good opportunity to extend NVDA's reach and popularity, as well as

reporting features and bugs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net. Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations or location is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries | Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa -

 

 

Are there any vocalizer voices for NVDA?