Date   

Does anyone read Groups.io via the Web Interface?

 

Hello All,

          It seems that the vast majority of participants interact with these forums in good, old-fashioned e-mail.  I, however, use the web interface and am in the process of trying to teach myself how to efficiently navigate any given Groups.io page, particularly the main Messages page.  Things are not behaving as I'd expect they should/might when I'm using NVDA.  Some of that is almost certainly ignorance regarding NVDA features, as I'm much newer to NVDA than I am to JAWS, but some of it is also the fact that I don't use a screen reader for my primary access and I think the actual pages are structured in a way that I wouldn't expect or don't understand.

          Here's one example, when I try brute force TABbing to try to navigate to the link column on the upper left of the page containing the "control block" of links for Home, Messages, Post, Calendar, Hangout, and Subscription, I do not land in these directly after the dropdown that announces my name and would give me the option of editing my Profile or Logging out.  I would have expected these to be the "logical nexts" in page traversal, but they're not (or I'm doing something wrong).

         When I begin reading messages I also have not yet figured out how to jump forward to the next message in the forum with ease, and given that bottom quoting can be quite extensive that's something that anyone reading a forum such as this one would need to be able to do.

         There are features of the web interface that simply are not available in the e-mail formats, but I can see how the web interface might not be something that would be easily adopted if it is as complicated for full-time screen reader users as it's proving to be for me.

          This conversation could be useful to others who might like to try using the Groups.io web interface to interact with their subscribed groups.  Since I know that there are a number of folks using Gmail's web interface I have to believe that this one is less complicated, just because of how it appears, but I could be entirely wrong.

Brian


Re: Attachments

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

Well it does this already surely?
Unless you have changed the columns order in the email cliient ofcourse.
brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Beasley" <pjbeasley23@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Attachments


The notification is there but I would like to hear has attachment before anything else.

From: Roger Stewart
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 6:35 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Attachments

NVDA has always said "Has Attachment" right away if I land on an email that has one but I always use Thunderbird. Don't know what email you are using, but that may be why you're not getting this notification.

Roger









On 3/31/2016 8:52 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:

I think it would be nice if NVDA could say has attachment before anything else when going through e-mails like Window-eyes does. .


Re: NVDA with iTunes.

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

When you say crash, what exactly happens and in which version of windows and I tunes. I've not put Itunes on this 7 machine as the latest version never worked on xp and older versions used to fall over a lot on there.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lino Morales" <linomorales001@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA with iTunes.


It still crashes for me too Matt. Its a pain in the ass. I thought this
was fixed in the master release too.

On 3/31/2016 1:31 PM, Afrim wrote:
Last time I used NVDA, with itunes, it didn't crash.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 31, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Matt Turner <meturner2214@gmail.com
<mailto:meturner2214@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi folks, I've been testing out iTunes with the master version of NVDA.
And it still crashes nvda in the middle of using the iTunes store.
Someone told me about and old nvda log file, but i can't find it.


Re: Attachments

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

I have to say that I have now banished live mail to a supporting role, and am using the outlook express version mentioned a few weeks back on tis list. for multiple identities it can still fall over at times, but its more intuitive than live mail.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Attachments


On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 07:04 am, Patrick Le Baudour <p.lebaudour@gmail.com> wrote:
it does just that, because the attachment field is first.

Same here in Windows Live Mail 2012. Though the attachment field isn't first, it's before the From and Subject and I virtually never have any message arrive marked important (the actual first field). It's also interesting to note that in WLM 2012 you only see the fields laid out that way in one-line message view and that attachments will not even be shown on messages that have them until/unless the sender is on your safe sender's list. A test message I just sent to my testing account from one of my own e-mail accounts didn't show that it had an attachment because I'd never added myself to the safe sender's list prior to doing the test. Once I did, the "has attachment" field then populated in the message list.

Brian


Re: Attachments

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

Where this is spoken seems to alter on different email clients. Not sure, for example if thunderbird and the microsoft offerings allow re placement of the columns this appears in or not.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Beasley" <pjbeasley23@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 2:52 PM
Subject: [nvda] Attachments


I think it would be nice if NVDA could say has attachment before anything else when going through e-mails like Window-eyes does. .


Re: Text to speech program?

Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

The main proviso with all of this, including speech and its pdf conversion program is reading order set in the original file. If its tagged then it will alter how its read according to the changes in the file, if not it tends to apply the reading order from the start of the file to all of it often resulting in columns run together and out of place start and end pages, even words with spaces between letters or no spaces at all depending on what created the pdf in the first place.
Of course adobe reader does speak in itself but I do not think its capable of recording this, and it still has the issues wiith reading order, as after all, if the writer does not tell it how can it know?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrea Sherry" <sherryan@wideband.net.au>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Text to speech program?


Well Balabolka will do that for you and this is freeware.
TextAloud will also do this. But it is shareware.
Andrea

On 31/03/2016 8:42 AM, Matt Turner wrote:
Hi, does anyone no of a program that will convert PDF files to audio?
--
Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start
from now and make a brand new ending." - Carl Brad


Re: nvda remote unofficial servers

Patrick ZAJDA
 

Hi,

You said:
all info is under the getting in touch heading on the nvra.me
So the e-mail address is so protected against bots that I cannot
understand it ;) I'l try anyway.

Thanks.

Shaun Everiss:
all info is under the getting in touch heading on the nvra.me
I found this on the freakyfwoof twitter but its on the tidbits
topdotenterprises.com magazine also.



On 31/03/2016 11:05 p.m., Patrick ZAJDA wrote:
Hi Shaun and all,

First of all, thank you very much for this information! I didn't know
that, on which twitter did you read it?
And how this server (for the code) is affiliated to NVDARemote creators?
Last question: I set up a server, but I don't find the e-mail address to
contact, what e-mail address is it?

Thanks!

Patrick

Shaun Everiss:
Hi.
well I just read this on twitter but there are some unofficial remote
servers.
nvdaremote.com is the main server.
nvra.me is the server list there are 16 servers and could be room for
more they want to put servers world wide eventually.



--
Patrick ZAJDA


Re: NVDA with iTunes.

Lenron
 

I have had some of these same weird issues.

On 3/31/16, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Well nvda has been a bit flakey with bt sync 1x to, its when you close
it down and sometimes during running the system can get unstable.
it can also go nuts ie if you run 2 explorer windows and am coppying
from both to 2 devices and one has a override dialog.
I had this happen where nvda crashed 5 times a day and I had to restart
nvda or the computer to get it working right.
Its not to bad if you are carefull but yeah this latest version is not
as stable as I would like.



On 1/04/2016 7:24 a.m., Chris Shook wrote:
99.9 percent of the time, iTunes crashes for me to. I have to restart
NVDA to get it to work, and then I have to close iTunes down.
JAWS works fine with iTunes. Does any one else see the irony in that?





--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762


Re: NVDA with iTunes.

 

Well nvda has been a bit flakey with bt sync 1x to, its when you close it down and sometimes during running the system can get unstable.
it can also go nuts ie if you run 2 explorer windows and am coppying from both to 2 devices and one has a override dialog.
I had this happen where nvda crashed 5 times a day and I had to restart nvda or the computer to get it working right.
Its not to bad if you are carefull but yeah this latest version is not as stable as I would like.

On 1/04/2016 7:24 a.m., Chris Shook wrote:
99.9 percent of the time, iTunes crashes for me to. I have to restart
NVDA to get it to work, and then I have to close iTunes down.
JAWS works fine with iTunes. Does any one else see the irony in that?



Re: nvda remote unofficial servers

 

all info is under the getting in touch heading on the nvra.me
I found this on the freakyfwoof twitter but its on the tidbits topdotenterprises.com magazine also.

On 31/03/2016 11:05 p.m., Patrick ZAJDA wrote:
Hi Shaun and all,

First of all, thank you very much for this information! I didn't know
that, on which twitter did you read it?
And how this server (for the code) is affiliated to NVDARemote creators?
Last question: I set up a server, but I don't find the e-mail address to
contact, what e-mail address is it?

Thanks!

Patrick

Shaun Everiss:
Hi.
well I just read this on twitter but there are some unofficial remote
servers.
nvdaremote.com is the main server.
nvra.me is the server list there are 16 servers and could be room for
more they want to put servers world wide eventually.



Re: Attachments

 

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 11:08 am, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
You might be able to do this by changing the order in which fields are displayed.  However, as I said a few days ago, this cannot be done from the keyboard.  It is not accessible.  You have to either have a sighted person do it or you have to use your screen-reader's virtual mouse to perform such actions.  I've almost never done it and I'll leave the description of how to do it to others.

Gene is correct that moving the attribute columns is not possible using the keyboard alone, but this is an instance where NVDA's mouse tracking feature, willingness to use the mouse, and a reasonably steady hand can be used to move the columns to the left or right, at least in Windows Live Mail 2012(I'm not testing elsewhere until/unless I have the e-mail client information because this ability may or may not carry over to a given e-mail client).

If you have a convenient sighted assistant all they have to do is to hold down the left mouse button on the attachment attribute column heading and drag it to the left such that it is encountered first (again, for WLM 2012).

Brian

Brian



Re: Attachments

 

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:43 am, Peter Beasley <pjbeasley23@...> wrote:
The notification is there but I would like to hear has attachment before anything else.

Gene is correct that this is a function of the ordering of presentation of the attribute columns in your e-mail client.  You would have to specify the e-mail client (along with version) before I or anyone else could experiment with switching the column order using the screen reader.

I've got Outlook 2010, Windows Live Mail 2012, and the Win10 Mail App on my machine using a "junk" e-mail account so that I can work through stuff step-by-step when necessary.  If we're talking about a web interface like Gmail then the issue becomes more complicated to impossible, depending on whether the interface allows the customization to move the attachment attribute column to where it would be read first.

Brian



Re: NVDA with iTunes.

Chris Shook <chris0309@...>
 

99.9 percent of the time, iTunes crashes for me to. I have to restart NVDA to get it to work, and then I have to close iTunes down.
JAWS works fine with iTunes. Does any one else see the irony in that?


Re: Attachments

Gene
 

You might be able to do this by changing the order in which fields are displayed.  However, as I said a few days ago, this cannot be done from the keyboard.  It is not accessible.  You have to either have a sighted person do it or you have to use your screen-reader's virtual mouse to perform such actions.  I've almost never done it and I'll leave the description of how to do it to others.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Attachments

The notification is there but I would like to hear has attachment before anything else.
 
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Attachments
 
NVDA has always said "Has Attachment" right away if I land on an email that has one but I always use Thunderbird. Don't know what email you are using, but that may be why you're not getting this notification.

Roger









On 3/31/2016 8:52 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
I think it would be nice if NVDA could say has attachment before anything else when going through e-mails like Window-eyes does. .


Re: Attachments

Peter Beasley
 

The notification is there but I would like to hear has attachment before anything else.
 

Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Attachments
 
NVDA has always said "Has Attachment" right away if I land on an email that has one but I always use Thunderbird. Don't know what email you are using, but that may be why you're not getting this notification.

Roger









On 3/31/2016 8:52 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
I think it would be nice if NVDA could say has attachment before anything else when going through e-mails like Window-eyes does. .


Re: FW: Chrome updates

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Thanks, Chris, this looks like a good way to get the information. I’ve just tried it myself and it works just as you describe!

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

 

I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for free now!

 

 

From: Chris Mullins [mailto:cjmullins29@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 6:17 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: Chrome updates

 

If I press alt+d and type about://version in the Omnibox, I get the following page which I can read with arrow keys:

 

Google Inc.

Copyright 2016 Google Inc. All rights reserved.

Google Chrome:

49.0.2623.110 (Official Build) m(64-bit)

Revision:

575538bc320e213510be1e66f3521382e615129d-refs/branch-heads/2623@{#657}

OS:

Windows

Blink:

537.36 (@575538bc320e213510be1e66f3521382e615129d)

JavaScript:

V84.9.385.33

Flash:

21.0.0.197

User Agent:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/49.0.2623.110 Safari/537.36

Command Line:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\Chrome\Application\chrome.exe" --flag-switches-begin --flag-switches-end

Executable Path:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\Chrome\Application\chrome.exe

Profile Path:

C:\Users\Chris\AppData\Local\Google\Chrome\User Data\Default

Variations:

b3888d8d-afba0f91

 

 

it continues with more information and I don’t have mouse tracking active.

 

Using W7 with NVDA 2016.1

 

Cheers

Chris

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: 31 March 2016 00:13
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: Chrome updates

 

Just so people know this, even though NVDA+Down Arrow on the Chrome About page reads only "About Blank" there is other text, including the Version, that NVDA can and does read if you have mouse tracking on (which it is by default) and you glide your mouse pointer about the screen.

I have no idea why NVDA Find cannot find the word Version while a standard CTRL+F find in Chrome itself does.  I've tied playing with the commands to Follow System Caret and Move mouse to current navigator object to see if I could get NVDA to read that way, but I haven't succeeded.

Even if you don't typically use a mouse, if you've got one and are really certain that there must be something on a page you can get a lot of information by doing a slow, orderly "glide over" of the page with the mouse.  Depending on the layout of the page left-to-right working from top to bottom may work best.  For others top-to-bottom working from left to right will work best.  The layout of the Chrome About screen is pretty much a single column, not far from the left, so top to bottom, left to right works reasonably well.  You can always try a "quick and dirty" scan with the mouse until you hear something, anything, announced then getting organized about moving about.

Mouse tracking is one of the NVDA features I really like best because it gives another method to get to information when "the usuals" get cranky.

Brian


Re: NVDA with iTunes.

Lino Morales
 

It still crashes for me too Matt. Its a pain in the ass. I thought this was fixed in the master release too.

On 3/31/2016 1:31 PM, Afrim wrote:
Last time I used NVDA, with itunes, it didn't crash.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 31, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Matt Turner <meturner2214@...> wrote:

Hi folks, I've been testing out iTunes with the master version of NVDA.
And it still crashes nvda in the middle of using the iTunes store.
Someone told me about and old nvda log file, but i can't find it.


Re: Attachments

Roger Stewart
 

NVDA has always said "Has Attachment" right away if I land on an email that has one but I always use Thunderbird. Don't know what email you are using, but that may be why you're not getting this notification.

Roger









On 3/31/2016 8:52 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
I think it would be nice if NVDA could say has attachment before anything else when going through e-mails like Window-eyes does. .


Re: NVDA with iTunes.

afrim maja <afrim.maja@...>
 

Last time I used NVDA, with itunes, it didn't crash.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 31, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Matt Turner <meturner2214@...> wrote:

Hi folks, I've been testing out iTunes with the master version of NVDA.
And it still crashes nvda in the middle of using the iTunes store.
Someone told me about and old nvda log file, but i can't find it.


NVDA with iTunes.

Matt Turner
 

Hi folks, I've been testing out iTunes with the master version of NVDA.
And it still crashes nvda in the middle of using the iTunes store.
Someone told me about and old nvda log file, but i can't find it.