Date   

Re: In-Process May 26

David Moore
 

Hi Quentin!

I think it is a great idea!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process May 26

 

Hi everyone,


A quick followup re the RSS feed.  There is already an RSS feed available, which your browser should be able to detect on the page.


There isn't an explicit link on the page, but you can go to: https://www.nvaccess.org/category/in-process/feed/

 

Re comments, the initial reluctance was around dealing with the inevitable spam being something else to be maintained.  If there is enough interest, we could certainly consider it though.  My other thought was that perhaps we could have something at the bottom of the page directing people to the e-mail group here for discussion?  That way discussions on any issues raised could be together rather than being fragmented, partly as comments to the post, partly here etc.

 

What do people think of that idea?

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:

Setting up the RSS feed is a good idea.  I'll look into that.

 

Comments are potentially also possible, I must admit I hadn't looked into it.  Something for me to investigate now though.  Thanks for the ideas!

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@...> wrote:

Hi Quentin,
Great post as always, and I do appreciate the In-Process blog posts
you periodically write. Out of curiosity, do you think comments could
and/or should be enabled for the same?
Thanks.

On 5/26/17, Robert Kingett <kingettr@...> wrote:
> Is there an RSS feed for these blogs? The only one I see is the podcast
> RSS feed
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750




 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 


Re: NVDA key

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Don,

Windows has a Sticky Key option in the "Ease of access" centre, which does this for regular modifier keys such as control, alt, shift and windows.  If you have this setting enabled, NVDA's modifier key (insert or caps lock) will also adopt this functionality.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Don H <lmddh50@...> wrote:
With some key combinations I find my Old Man fingers fighting against me.  Is it possible to make the insert key, NVDA Key, to be a sticky key?  If so how do you set it up?
Thanks






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Thunderbird and strange strings in forwarded emails

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi Dan


have a look under the view then header menu then change that to normal otherwise you get the extra stuff.


I will have a check on my thunder bird page to see if it was mentioned there or not if it is not i will add it into the tutorial if you get that same result you got.


Gene nz



On 29/05/2017 1:54 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:

HI,


I don't know if this is NVDA or not but it started showing up after a NVDA update.


My wife and friends have noticed that a few weeks ago when I forward emails the control codes at the beginning of an email are showing up on their systems when they view my forwards.


Does anyone know what is causing this and how to turn it off using NVDA?  I have searched and searched and can't seem to find anything that would cause this behavior.


thanks.


Dan Beaver


--
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net. Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations or location is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries | Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa -


Thunderbird and strange strings in forwarded emails

Dan Beaver
 

HI,


I don't know if this is NVDA or not but it started showing up after a NVDA update.


My wife and friends have noticed that a few weeks ago when I forward emails the control codes at the beginning of an email are showing up on their systems when they view my forwards.


Does anyone know what is causing this and how to turn it off using NVDA?  I have searched and searched and can't seem to find anything that would cause this behavior.


thanks.


Dan Beaver


NVDA key

Don H
 

With some key combinations I find my Old Man fingers fighting against me. Is it possible to make the insert key, NVDA Key, to be a sticky key? If so how do you set it up?
Thanks


Re: In-Process May 26

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

A quick followup re the RSS feed.  There is already an RSS feed available, which your browser should be able to detect on the page.

There isn't an explicit link on the page, but you can go to: https://www.nvaccess.org/category/in-process/feed/

Re comments, the initial reluctance was around dealing with the inevitable spam being something else to be maintained.  If there is enough interest, we could certainly consider it though.  My other thought was that perhaps we could have something at the bottom of the page directing people to the e-mail group here for discussion?  That way discussions on any issues raised could be together rather than being fragmented, partly as comments to the post, partly here etc.

What do people think of that idea?

Regards

Quentin.

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
Setting up the RSS feed is a good idea.  I'll look into that.

Comments are potentially also possible, I must admit I hadn't looked into it.  Something for me to investigate now though.  Thanks for the ideas!

Regards

Quentin.

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@...> wrote:
Hi Quentin,
Great post as always, and I do appreciate the In-Process blog posts
you periodically write. Out of curiosity, do you think comments could
and/or should be enabled for the same?
Thanks.

On 5/26/17, Robert Kingett <kingettr@...> wrote:
> Is there an RSS feed for these blogs? The only one I see is the podcast
> RSS feed
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: level character and send actual symbol to synthesizer

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Annemiek,

1. Good question, and I just noticed this one isn't well documented, so possibly an opportunity for us to improve our User Guide here.  The "level" combo box corresponds to the punctuation level at which NVDA will read that character.  The equals sign '=', for instance, is set to "some".  If punctuation level is set to some, most, or all, NVDA will read:

This = That

as "This equals that".  With symbol level set to none, it will be read as "This That".

If "Level" was instead set to character, then that particular text would always be read as "This That" except when moving by character - pressing the right arrow to move through the text for instance.

2. The "Send actual symbol to synthesizer" is a bit more clearly documented in the User Guide:

"The Send actual symbol to synthesizer field specifies when the symbol itself (in contrast to its replacement) should be sent to the synthesizer. This is useful if the symbol causes the synthesizer to pause or change the inflection of the voice. For example, a comma causes the synthesizer to pause. There are three options:
  • never: Never send the actual symbol to the synthesizer.
  • always: Always send the actual symbol to the synthesizer.
  • only below symbols' level: Send the actual symbol only if the configured speech symbol level is lower than the level set for this symbol. For example, you might use this so that a symbol will have its replacement spoken at higher levels without pausing, while still being indicated with a pause at lower levels."

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Annemiek van Leendert <annemiekleendert@...> wrote:
Hi group,

I have two questions about NVDA:

1 What is the meaning of level "Character" in preferences/ punctuation/ symbol pronunciation

2 The same question for : "Send actual symbol to synthesizer? (never, always, only below symbols' level)"

I hope you can explain this to me.

Kind regards,

Annemiek


Annemiek van Leendert

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--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


more voices for NVDA

Don H
 

Considering purchasing the Vocalizer voices for NVDA. 69 price tag? I see that A t Guys sells it and when checking out they have a spot for adding a coupon. Don't see anywhere to get such coupons.
Anyone got these voices installed and using them? Are they worth the $


Re: In-Process May 26

Quentin Christensen
 

Setting up the RSS feed is a good idea.  I'll look into that.

Comments are potentially also possible, I must admit I hadn't looked into it.  Something for me to investigate now though.  Thanks for the ideas!

Regards

Quentin.

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@...> wrote:
Hi Quentin,
Great post as always, and I do appreciate the In-Process blog posts
you periodically write. Out of curiosity, do you think comments could
and/or should be enabled for the same?
Thanks.

On 5/26/17, Robert Kingett <kingettr@...> wrote:
> Is there an RSS feed for these blogs? The only one I see is the podcast
> RSS feed
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: The more or less finished tutorial

Gene
 

Here is the revised version with references to the NVDA key made consistent.  People who want to keep and/or distribute the tutorial should keep this version.  If no other changes are suggested that I adopt, I'll send a message to the list in a day or two saying that this copy, the copy I said to keep, is the final version.
 
Gene

Moving from Window-eyes to NVDA
A very short tutorial telling you just what you need to know to do a lot of what
you did before.
 
First, a word about using the tutorial.  I explain concepts in the tutorial but
much of what I do is to give commands that are different in NVDA.  As I explain, a
lot of what you do won't change but certain things will require different commands.
 
 To use this tutorial effectively, practicing many commands I give might be very
useful.  For example, when I give screen review commands, stopping reading and
practicing in this document might help you remember and learn them.  When I
describe input help, turning it on and trying different keys and combinations of
keys might be helpful.  You will find, for example, that the screen review commands
I give are announced when you have key describer on and issue the commands.  That
will help you review quickly and efficiently if you for get any of them, something
that is far more likely to occur in the laptop layout than the desktop layout. 
Now that I've suggested ways to use it effectively, the tutorial begins.
 
Many people are apprehensive about switching to NVDA or any other screen-reader
from Window-eyes.  This tutorial will explain and demonstrate that such
apprehensions are largely based on misunderstandings. 
Before I discuss the misunderstanding that causes most of this apprehension, I'll
briefly discuss installing NVDA and changing the synthesizer used and speech
parameters.
 
NVDA has a talking installer.  run the file as you would any installation file. 
you may get a dialog asking if you want to run the file.  Use the command alt r
for run.  If you get a UAC prompt, answer alt y. 
Run narrator.  Then run the NVDA installer. 
when you run the installer, there will be a pause and then a bit of music will
play.  Not long after, the talking installer will run.  Unload Narrator at that
point.  return to the install dialog.
Tab through the dchoices.  Accept the license agreement and then tab to install. 
You will get other options but install is the one you want.

Don't stop using NvDA because of the voice.  A lot of people don't try NVDA because
of the voice.  As soon as you get it set up, I'll tell you how to change the
synthesizer used.
 
When NVDA is installed and running, a dialog box comes up with some explanatory
text and the ability to set one or two options.  While I know a lot of people very
much dislike the default voice, it's worth listening to the dialog and looking at
the settings by tabbing through them. 
I would recommend checking the check box to use caps lock as an NVDA modifier. 
You'll see why I recommend this in later discussion.
 
After you go through the initial parameters dialog, it's time to learn how to change the synthesizer. 
 
First, a word on terminology.  By default, NVDA uses either insert in combination with other keys to give commands to the screen-reader.  I shall refer to the NVDA key when I am refering to these keys.  also, you can tell NVDA to use the caps lock key as an NVDA key as well.  At times, this is very convenient. When I say NVDA key, it refers to any of these keys. 

To change the synthesizer, issue the command control NVDA key s. 

A synthesizer selection dialog will open.
You will see a list of different possibly available synthesizers.  Choose SAPI 5. 
I know everyone has at least one SAPI 5 voice on their machine.  Up and down arrow
through the list and stop on SAPI five.  Press enter.
You will now hear another voice.  It may be the same voice you hear in Narrator. 
Now issue the command control NVDA key v.
You are now in the voice selection and adjustment dialog. 
Up and down arrow to see what voices are available.  Stop on the one you want. 
Now tab through the dialog and change settings for the voice. 
Once you find a voice you want and tab through and set whatever you want such as
speed and punctuation, press the ok button. 
 
Now, let's continue with what I spoke of at the start of this tutorial.  The
misunderstanding that makes the switch to NVDA from Window-eyes or from any other screen-reader seem daunting is that the user doesn't
realize that most of the commands he/she uses are Windows commands and program
commands and they won't change.
Consider the following examples:
Opening menus was and still is alt.  That's a Windows command to open menus in
programs.  It's the same no matter which screen-reader you use. 
Control o for open doesn't change.  Using the arrow keys to move in a document
doesn't change.  Tabbing through dialogs doesn't change.  Neither does how you move
in a list or a treeview or work with a combo box, and the list goes on. 
Screen-reader commands, many of which may change, such as read title bar, provide
access to information you can't get or can't get conveniently by using Windows or
program commands.  for example, read title bar.  In Window-eyes, the command is
control shift t.  In NVDA, it's NVDA key t. 
The title bar is something a sighted person looks at.  You can't move to it with
the pc cursor or application cursor, whatever you wish to call it, because there is
no need.  A sighted person can just see it.  So the screen-reader has a command,
read title bar.  That command is not a Windows nor a program command.
Here are the screen-reader commands you will need to know to allow you to do a lot
of what you did before.
To unload NVDA, NVDA key q then enter.
Read title bar, NVDA key t. 
Time, NVDA key f12. 
Announce formatting information, NVDA key f.
Read current Window, NVDA b.  In Window-eyes the command is control shift w. 
Read to end, NVDA key down arrow.  Use the down arrow on the main keyboard.
In the laptop layout, read to end is NVDA key a. 
Stop speech with control, as with screen-readers in general. 
 
I'm about to discuss screen-review commands.  those let you review the screen
without changing the position of the cursor when editing a document, or changing
where you are in a dialog or anywhere else.  But first, I'll point out that
Commands such as left arrow, right arrow, control home, control end, control left
arrow, and control right arrow are Windows movement commands for moving in any
standard edit field including word processor edit fields.  None of them will
change.
 
Screen review commands:
Note the pattern as I give these commands:
Read previous line, numpad 7. 
Read current line, numpad 8.
Read next line numpad nine.
You move in screen review to the previous or next line when you issue those
commands.  You can keep moving and reading until you get to the top or bottom of
the screen.
Read previous word, numpad 4.
Read current word, numpad 5.
Read next word, numpad 6.
Read previous character, numpad 1.
Read current character, numpad 2.
Read next character, numpad 3.
Note the pattern.  Read current is the key in the middle of each of these rows.
Move to and read previous is the key on the left. 
Move to and read next is the key to the right.
The lower the numbers the smaller the movement unit.  1 2 and 3 move by character. 
4 5 and 6 move by word, etc.
Now, here are the laptop layout review commands:
Read current line, NVDA key shift  period
Move to and read next line, NVDA key down arrow.
Move to and read previous line NVDA key up arrow.
Read current word NVDA key control period
Read previous word NVDA key control left arrow
Read next word NVDA key control right arrow
Announce current character NVDA key period.
Move to and read previous character NVDA key left arrow
Move to and read next character NVDA right arrow.
After a little more discussion, I'll tell you how to change the keyboard layout to
laptop.
Getting back to the review keys in the laptop layout, There are sort of patterns
in the laptop layout but not the kind of uniform pattern as in the desktop layout.
 If I had a laptop computer without a numpad, I'd buy a USB numpad and not fool
around with the laptop layout.  But you can decide that for yourself.  But aside
from predictable keys such as that period is used for current, and that left and
right arrows are useed with modifiers, you can't generalize more.  Such patterns
are not followed in every previous and next item.  In one of the previous and next
items, up and down arrow is used. 
 
I shall now explain how to change the layout from the desktop to the laptop layout
and discuss causing the caps lock to be used as an NVDA key.  If you add capslock,
you can still use either insert.  there are times when caps lock is very
convenient.
 
to open the keyboard layout issue the command control NVDA key k.
You are now in a list of layouts.
the desktop is the default and the first in the list. 
If you want to switch to the laptop layout, down arrow once and then tab to and
activate the ok button. 

You will notice as you tab, check boxes about which keys serve as the NVDA key.
Caps lock is not checked.  Check it with the space bar.
You can stay in the desk top layout and still tab and see these check boxes.  I
use the caps lock key as an NVDA key often and I use the desktop layout.  I find
it much more convenient to use for the read to end command.  I hold caps lock and
press down arrow.  That is, to me, much more convenient than using insert down
arrow, regardless of which insert I use. 
If you want to toggle caps lock on and off for typing, press it twice quickly.  If
you press it once and hold it, it serves as an NVDA key.  If you press it twice
quickly, it toggles caps lock on and off.
 
Here are two more important commands:
Jump to top of window, shift numpad 7.
Laptop layout command:
control NVDA key home.
Jump to bottom of window is shift numpad 9.
Laptop layout command:
Control NVDA key end.
 
I've said top and bottom of Window but that's oversimplified.  It depends what kind
of review mode you are using.  I won't go into that to any extent in this very
short tutorial. 
 
If you are reviewing material in a word processor, use the review commands I've
given. 
If you are in a dialog or some other structures, in order to see what is on screen,
change to screen review mode.  to do this, use the command NVDA key numpad 7.  Here, it is most convenient to use the numpad insert as the NVDA key in the desktop layout. 
In the laptop layout, the command is NVDA key page up.  Issue the command and
repeat it if necessary until you hear screen review. 
then you can use the review commands such as numpad 7, 8 9, etc. to review what is
on screen.  Use the same commands I gave earlier for review.

To left click with the mouse, route the mouse to the review position with the
command NVDA key numpad slash. In the desktop layout, again it is most convenient to use the numpad insert.  Then left click with numpad slash by itself.  That is the same command you left click wwith
in Window-eyes.  If you want to right click, route the mouse with the same command,
NVDA key numpad slash, then use numpad star, the key immediately to the right
of numpad slash, the key immediately to the right of the left click key.  In other words, you right click with the same key you use in
Window-eyes.
After you have finished working in screen review, it is very important to return
to object review.  Issue the command NVDA key numpad one in the desktop
layout. Again, the numpad insert is most convenient to use. the laptop layout command is NVDA Key page down.  Repeat the command  if
necessary until you hear object review.  If you don't do this, you will often hear
incorrect information about where you are when you do various things in NVDA. 
Screen review, though the commands are different, is similar in concept to using
the mouse pointer in Window-eyes.  Object navigation is different from any review
mode in Window-eyes.  I won't teach its use here but you will find a discussion of
it in a tutorial I will give an address for later in this tutorial.  Depending on
how you use your computer, you may find it very useful. 
 
That is just about all I will teach in this very short tutorial.  As I said, its
purpose is to allow you to do much of what you do with Window-eyes quickly and
easily.  But  I'll tell you a few more things.
 
Internet browsing:
When you are on a web page, quick navigation commands are almost identical whether
you are using NVDA or Window-eyes. 
Move by headings is h.  Skip blocks of links is n. 
Move to next button is b, 
Next combo box is c.
Next check box is x.
NVDA has an input help mode which is similar to what is in Window-eyes.  NVDA key and
1 on the main keyboard turns it on.  When you press a key or combination of keys
that might be a command, you will hear what the keys are and what, if any command
they execute.  This varies depending on where you are.
When in a browser that supports browse mode, typing a lot of individual letters
will give you information about what the keys do in browse mode.  I already gave
much of that information above but you may want to press a lot of keys using input
mode in a browser. 
To turn input mode off use the same command you used to turn it on, NVDA key 1.
 
to learn more about NVDA, a popular tutorial is available at
http://www.josephsl.net/tutorials
On that page, you will see links to download different sections of the tutorial dealing with
different subjects.  You can also download the entire tutorial as a zip file.
 
There is also an e-mail list for NVDA users.  To join, send a blank message to this
 
I hope that this tutorial has removed much of your apprehension about switching to
NVDA.  Now, as you wish or need, you may consult the tutorial I gave a link to. 
NVDA is a powerful screen-reader and it will meet a lot of users needs as well as
JAWS or Window-eyes does.  I hope this very short tutorial gives you a good
foundation on which to build confidence that the transition should be much easier
than you may have thought and that it will help make it much more enjoyable.


Re: The more or less finished tutorial

Gene
 

I'll change the references and add an explanation.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] The more or less finished tutorial

Hi Gene

Having read through the Window Eyes transition tutorial, I note that you refer to commands as for example, Control Insert s then a little later on  as in the section on laptop layout review commands for example, NVDA Shift period, without first explaining the concept of the NVDA modifier key.  For the sake of consistency and to indicate when a command is a screen reader command as opposed to a Windows command, the concept should be explained early in the narrative and “NVDA” used in all screen reader command references throughout the document.       

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 28 May 2017 18:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] The more or less finished tutorial

 

I've made some changes and corrected some errors.  Unless others make suggestions I adopt, this should be the final version.

 

Gene

 

Moving from Window-eyes to NVDA
A very short tutorial telling you just what you need to know to do a lot of what

you did before.

 

First, a word about using the tutorial.  I explain concepts in the tutorial but

much of what I do is to give commands that are different in NVDA.  As I explain, a

lot of what you do won't change but certain things will require different commands.

 

 To use this tutorial effectively, practicing many commands I give might be very

useful.  For example, when I give screen review commands, stopping reading and

practicing in this document might help you remember and learn them.  When I

describe input help, turning it on and trying different keys and combinations of

keys might be helpful.  You will find, for example, that the screen review commands

I give are announced when you have key describer on and issue the commands.  That

will help you review quickly and efficiently if you for get any of them, something

that is far more likely to occur in the laptop layout than the desktop layout. 

Now that I've suggested ways to use it effectively, the tutorial begins.

 

Many people are apprehensive about switching to NVDA or any other screen-reader

from Window-eyes.  This tutorial will explain and demonstrate that such

apprehensions are largely based on misunderstandings. 

Before I discuss the misunderstanding that causes most of this apprehension, I'll

briefly discuss installing NVDA and changing the synthesizer used and speech

parameters.

 

NVDA has a talking installer.  run the file as you would any installation file. 

you may get a dialog asking if you want to run the file.  Use the command alt r

for run.  If you get a UAC prompt, answer alt y. 
Run narrator.  Then run the NVDA installer. 
when you run the installer, there will be a pause and then a bit of music will

play.  Not long after, the talking installer will run.  Unload Narrator at that

point.  return to the install dialog.
Tab through the dchoices.  Accept the license agreement and then tab to install. 

You will get other options but install is the one you want.


Don't stop using NvDA because of the voice.  A lot of people don't try NVDA because

of the voice.  As soon as you get it set up, I'll tell you how to change the

synthesizer used.

 

When NVDA is installed and running, a dialog box comes up with some explanatory

text and the ability to set one or two options.  While I know a lot of people very

much dislike the default voice, it's worth listening to the dialog and looking at

the settings by tabbing through them. 

I would recommend checking the check box to use caps lock as an NVDA modifier. 

You'll see why I recommend this in later discussion.

 

After you go through the initial parameters dialog, it's time to learn how to

change the synthesizer. 
Issue the command control insert s.  Use either insert.  From now on, assume you

can use either insert unless I state differently.
A synthesizer selection dialog will open.
You will see a list of different possibly available synthesizers.  Choose SAPI 5. 

I know everyone has at least one SAPI 5 voice on their machine.  Up and down arrow

through the list and stop on SAPI five.  Press enter.
You will now hear another voice.  It may be the same voice you hear in Narrator. 
Now issue the command control insert v.
You are now in the voice selection and adjustment dialog. 
Up and down arrow to see what voices are available.  Stop on the one you want. 
Now tab through the dialog and change settings for the voice. 
Once you find a voice you want and tab through and set whatever you want such as

speed and punctuation, press the ok button. 

 

Now, let's continue with what I spoke of at the start of this tutorial.  The

misunderstanding that makes the switch to NVDA from Window-eyes or from any other screen-reader seem daunting is that the user doesn't

realize that most of the commands he/she uses are Windows commands and program

commands and they won't change.

Consider the following examples:
Opening menus was and still is alt.  That's a Windows command to open menus in

programs.  It's the same no matter which screen-reader you use. 
Control o for open doesn't change.  Using the arrow keys to move in a document

doesn't change.  Tabbing through dialogs doesn't change.  Neither does how you move

in a list or a treeview or work with a combo box, and the list goes on. 
Screen-reader commands, many of which may change, such as read title bar, provide

access to information you can't get or can't get conveniently by using Windows or

program commands.  for example, read title bar.  In Window-eyes, the command is

control shift t.  In NVDA, it's insert t. 

The title bar is something a sighted person looks at.  You can't move to it with

the pc cursor or application cursor, whatever you wish to call it, because there is

no need.  A sighted person can just see it.  So the screen-reader has a command,

read title bar.  That command is not a Windows nor a program command.

Here are the screen-reader commands you will need to know to allow you to do a lot

of what you did before.
To unload NVDA, insert q then enter.
Read title bar, insert t. 
Time, insert f12. 
Announce formatting information, insert f.
Read current Window, insert b.  In Window-eyes the command is control shift w. 
Read to end, insert down arrow.  Use the down arrow on the main keyboard.
In the laptop layout, read to end is NVDA key a. 
Stop speech with control, as with screen-readers in general. 

 

I'm about to discuss screen-review commands.  those let you review the screen

without changing the position of the cursor when editing a document, or changing

where you are in a dialog or anywhere else.  But first, I'll point out that

Commands such as left arrow, right arrow, control home, control end, control left

arrow, and control right arrow are Windows movement commands for moving in any

standard edit field including word processor edit fields.  None of them will

change.

 

Screen review commands:
Note the pattern as I give these commands:
Read previous line, numpad 7. 
Read current line, numpad 8.
Read next line numpad nine.
You move in screen review to the previous or next line when you issue those

commands.  You can keep moving and reading until you get to the top or bottom of

the screen.
Read previous word, numpad 4.
Read current word, numpad 5.
Read next word, numpad 6.
Read previous character, numpad 1.
Read current character, numpad 2.
Read next character, numpad 3.
Note the pattern.  Read current is the key in the middle of each of these rows.
Move to and read previous is the key on the left. 
Move to and read next is the key to the right.
The lower the numbers the smaller the movement unit.  1 2 and 3 move by character. 

4 5 and 6 move by word, etc.
Now, here are the laptop layout review commands:
Read current line, NVDA shift  period
Move to and read next line, NVDA down arrow.
Move to and read previous line NVDA up arrow.
Read current word NVDA control period
Read previous word NVDA control left arrow
Read next word NVDA control right arrow
Announce current character NVDA period.
Move to and read previous character NVDA left arrow
Move to and read next character NVDA right arrow.
After a little more discussion, I'll tell you how to change the keyboard layout to

laptop.

Getting back to the review keys in the laptop layout, There are sort of patterns

in the laptop layout but not the kind of uniform pattern as in the desktop layout.

 If I had a laptop computer without a numpad, I'd buy a USB numpad and not fool

around with the laptop layout.  But you can decide that for yourself.  But aside

from predictable keys such as that period is used for current, and that left and

right arrows are useed with modifiers, you can't generalize more.  Such patterns

are not followed in every previous and next item.  In one of the previous and next

items, up and down arrow is used. 

 

I shall now explain how to change the layout from the desktop to the laptop layout

and discuss causing the caps lock to be used as an NVDA key.  If you add capslock,

you can still use either insert.  there are times when caps lock is very

convenient.

 

to open the keyboard layout issue the command control insert k.
You are now in a list of layouts.
the desktop is the default and the first in the list. 
If you want to switch to the laptop layout, down arrow once and then tab to and

activate the ok button. 


You will notice as you tab, check boxes about which keys serve as the NVDA key.
Caps lock is not checked.  Check it with the space bar.
You can stay in the desk top layout and still tab and see these check boxes.  I

use the caps lock key as an NVDA key often and I use the desktop layout.  I find

it much more convenient to use for the read to end command.  I hold caps lock and

press down arrow.  That is, to me, much more convenient than using insert down

arrow, regardless of which insert I use. 
If you want to toggle caps lock on and off for typing, press it twice quickly.  If

you press it once and hold it, it serves as an NVDA key.  If you press it twice

quickly, it toggles caps lock on and off.

 

Here are two more important commands:
Jump to top of window, shift numpad 7.

Laptop layout command:

control NVDA key home.
Jump to bottom of window is shift numpad 9.

Laptop layout command:

Control NVDA key end.

 

I've said top and bottom of Window but that's oversimplified.  It depends what kind

of review mode you are using.  I won't go into that to any extent in this very

short tutorial. 

 

If you are reviewing material in a word processor, use the review commands I've

given. 
If you are in a dialog or some other structures, in order to see what is on screen,

change to screen review mode.  to do this, use the command numpad insert numpad 7

in the desktop layout. 
In the laptop layout, the command is NVDA key page up..  Issue the command and

repeat it if necessary until you hear screen review. 
then you can use the review commands such as numpad 7, 8 9, etc. to review what is

on screen. 


To left click with the mouse, route the mouse to the review position with the

command numpad insert numpad slash.  That is the same command you left click wwith

in Window-eyes.  If you want to right click, route the mouse with the same command,

numpad insert numpad slash, then use numpad star, the key immediately to the right

of numpad slash.  In other words, you right click with the same key you use in

Window-eyes.
After you have finished working in screen review, it is very important to return

to object review.  Issue the command numpad insert numpad one in the desktop

layout.  the laptop layout command is NVDA Key page down.  Repeat the command  if

necessary until you hear object review.  If you don't do this, you will often hear

incorrect information about where you are when you do various things in NVDA. 

Screen review, though the commands are different, is similar in concept to using

the mouse pointer in Window-eyes.  Object navigation is different from any review

mode in Window-eyes.  I won't teach its use here but you will find a discussion of

it in a tutorial I will give an address for later in this tutorial.  Depending on

how you use your computer, you may find it very useful. 

 

That is just about all I will teach in this very short tutorial.  As I said, its

purpose is to allow you to do much of what you do with Window-eyes quickly and

easily.  But  I'll tell you a few more things.

 

Internet browsing:
When you are on a web page, quick navigation commands are almost identical whether

you are using NVDA or Window-eyes. 
Move by headings is h.  Skip blocks of links is n. 
Move to next button is b, 
Next combo box is c.
Next check box is x.
NVDA has an input help mode which is similar to what is in Window-eyes.  Insert and

1 on the main keyboard turns it on.  When you press a key or combination of keys

that might be a command, you will hear what the keys are and what, if any command

they execute.  This varies depending on where you are.
When in a browser that supports browse mode, typing a lot of individual letters

will give you information about what the keys do in browse mode.  I already gave

much of that information above but you may want to press a lot of keys using input

mode in a browser. 

To turn input mode off use the same command you used to turn it on, insert 1.

 

to learn more about NVDA, a popular tutorial is available at

http://www.josephsl.net/tutorials
On that page, you will see links to download different sections of the tutorial dealing with

different subjects.  You can also download the entire tutorial as a zip file.

 

There is also an e-mail list for NVDA users.  To join, send a blank message to this

 

I hope that this tutorial has removed much of your apprehension about switching to

NVDA.  Now, as you wish or need, you may consult the tutorial I gave a link to. 

NVDA is a powerful screen-reader and it will meet a lot of users needs as well as

JAWS or Window-eyes does.  I hope this very short tutorial gives you a good

foundation on which to build confidence that the transition should be much easier

than you may have thought and that it will help make it much more enjoyable.


NVDA add-on for bme2, Re: [nvda] Accessible music notation software

John Sanfilippo
 

Hello,

I am very interested in the NVDA add-on for BME2. Where can it be gotten?

John S

On 5/28/17 15:31, Jorge Gonçalves wrote:
Hello:


You also have Braille Music Editor 2

http://www.veia.it/en/bme2_product


For this software there is a Add-on for Nvda which makes it perfectly
usable with our screen reader.

Cheers,

Jorge



Às 00:26 de 28/05/2017, John Sanfilippo escreveu:
Hi,

You might try these:

1, www.lilypond.org: This is open source software which runs on many
platforms. It is text based, so you learn a text coding which is
interpreted by lilypond, and output as PDF and MIDI files. You print the
pdf and optionally listen to the midi file.

2, www.Musescore.org is an open source scoring program like Sibelius or
Finale. Scores are written on screen using keyboard and mouse. They are
aware of accessibility, but they say that the program is right now more
suitable for reading scores than writing them for visually impaired.

Now, if you have some funds there are two other scoring programs:

3, Sibelius which has Jaws and some NVDA support.
More info is here:
http://www.raisedbar.co.uk/Sibelius/SibeliusAccessV5.htm

4, www.dancingdots.com develops a program called Goodfeel. For this you
must run Jaws. I know of no NVDA support, though that may be
forthcoming. This is a suite of programs which includes SharpEye, a
music OCR program for scanning printed music, Lime, a print music
scoring program made accessible by Jaws scripts called LimeAloud, and
Goodfeel, a braille music transcribing software which converts Lime
scores into braille music.

Hope this helps some.

John S



On 5/27/17 15:45, brandon wrote:
Greetings list,

I am planning on starting my journey on becomming a music major in
the fall of this year.
I was wondering if there are any accessible programs that can help me
in music notation.
Especially ones that can display music notation in the standard print
way.
Also if there are any tips and tricks of the trade that can help
those would be appreciated.
Kind regards,
Brandon



--
- JS o -


Re: The more or less finished tutorial

Chris Mullins
 

Hi Gene

Having read through the Window Eyes transition tutorial, I note that you refer to commands as for example, Control Insert s then a little later on  as in the section on laptop layout review commands for example, NVDA Shift period, without first explaining the concept of the NVDA modifier key.  For the sake of consistency and to indicate when a command is a screen reader command as opposed to a Windows command, the concept should be explained early in the narrative and “NVDA” used in all screen reader command references throughout the document.       

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 28 May 2017 18:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] The more or less finished tutorial

 

I've made some changes and corrected some errors.  Unless others make suggestions I adopt, this should be the final version.

 

Gene

 

Moving from Window-eyes to NVDA
A very short tutorial telling you just what you need to know to do a lot of what

you did before.

 

First, a word about using the tutorial.  I explain concepts in the tutorial but

much of what I do is to give commands that are different in NVDA.  As I explain, a

lot of what you do won't change but certain things will require different commands.

 

 To use this tutorial effectively, practicing many commands I give might be very

useful.  For example, when I give screen review commands, stopping reading and

practicing in this document might help you remember and learn them.  When I

describe input help, turning it on and trying different keys and combinations of

keys might be helpful.  You will find, for example, that the screen review commands

I give are announced when you have key describer on and issue the commands.  That

will help you review quickly and efficiently if you for get any of them, something

that is far more likely to occur in the laptop layout than the desktop layout. 

Now that I've suggested ways to use it effectively, the tutorial begins.

 

Many people are apprehensive about switching to NVDA or any other screen-reader

from Window-eyes.  This tutorial will explain and demonstrate that such

apprehensions are largely based on misunderstandings. 

Before I discuss the misunderstanding that causes most of this apprehension, I'll

briefly discuss installing NVDA and changing the synthesizer used and speech

parameters.

 

NVDA has a talking installer.  run the file as you would any installation file. 

you may get a dialog asking if you want to run the file.  Use the command alt r

for run.  If you get a UAC prompt, answer alt y. 
Run narrator.  Then run the NVDA installer. 
when you run the installer, there will be a pause and then a bit of music will

play.  Not long after, the talking installer will run.  Unload Narrator at that

point.  return to the install dialog.
Tab through the dchoices.  Accept the license agreement and then tab to install. 

You will get other options but install is the one you want.


Don't stop using NvDA because of the voice.  A lot of people don't try NVDA because

of the voice.  As soon as you get it set up, I'll tell you how to change the

synthesizer used.

 

When NVDA is installed and running, a dialog box comes up with some explanatory

text and the ability to set one or two options.  While I know a lot of people very

much dislike the default voice, it's worth listening to the dialog and looking at

the settings by tabbing through them. 

I would recommend checking the check box to use caps lock as an NVDA modifier. 

You'll see why I recommend this in later discussion.

 

After you go through the initial parameters dialog, it's time to learn how to

change the synthesizer. 
Issue the command control insert s.  Use either insert.  From now on, assume you

can use either insert unless I state differently.
A synthesizer selection dialog will open.
You will see a list of different possibly available synthesizers.  Choose SAPI 5. 

I know everyone has at least one SAPI 5 voice on their machine.  Up and down arrow

through the list and stop on SAPI five.  Press enter.
You will now hear another voice.  It may be the same voice you hear in Narrator. 
Now issue the command control insert v.
You are now in the voice selection and adjustment dialog. 
Up and down arrow to see what voices are available.  Stop on the one you want. 
Now tab through the dialog and change settings for the voice. 
Once you find a voice you want and tab through and set whatever you want such as

speed and punctuation, press the ok button. 

 

Now, let's continue with what I spoke of at the start of this tutorial.  The

misunderstanding that makes the switch to NVDA from Window-eyes or from any other screen-reader seem daunting is that the user doesn't

realize that most of the commands he/she uses are Windows commands and program

commands and they won't change.

Consider the following examples:
Opening menus was and still is alt.  That's a Windows command to open menus in

programs.  It's the same no matter which screen-reader you use. 
Control o for open doesn't change.  Using the arrow keys to move in a document

doesn't change.  Tabbing through dialogs doesn't change.  Neither does how you move

in a list or a treeview or work with a combo box, and the list goes on. 
Screen-reader commands, many of which may change, such as read title bar, provide

access to information you can't get or can't get conveniently by using Windows or

program commands.  for example, read title bar.  In Window-eyes, the command is

control shift t.  In NVDA, it's insert t. 

The title bar is something a sighted person looks at.  You can't move to it with

the pc cursor or application cursor, whatever you wish to call it, because there is

no need.  A sighted person can just see it.  So the screen-reader has a command,

read title bar.  That command is not a Windows nor a program command.

Here are the screen-reader commands you will need to know to allow you to do a lot

of what you did before.
To unload NVDA, insert q then enter.
Read title bar, insert t. 
Time, insert f12. 
Announce formatting information, insert f.
Read current Window, insert b.  In Window-eyes the command is control shift w. 
Read to end, insert down arrow.  Use the down arrow on the main keyboard.
In the laptop layout, read to end is NVDA key a. 
Stop speech with control, as with screen-readers in general. 

 

I'm about to discuss screen-review commands.  those let you review the screen

without changing the position of the cursor when editing a document, or changing

where you are in a dialog or anywhere else.  But first, I'll point out that

Commands such as left arrow, right arrow, control home, control end, control left

arrow, and control right arrow are Windows movement commands for moving in any

standard edit field including word processor edit fields.  None of them will

change.

 

Screen review commands:
Note the pattern as I give these commands:
Read previous line, numpad 7. 
Read current line, numpad 8.
Read next line numpad nine.
You move in screen review to the previous or next line when you issue those

commands.  You can keep moving and reading until you get to the top or bottom of

the screen.
Read previous word, numpad 4.
Read current word, numpad 5.
Read next word, numpad 6.
Read previous character, numpad 1.
Read current character, numpad 2.
Read next character, numpad 3.
Note the pattern.  Read current is the key in the middle of each of these rows.
Move to and read previous is the key on the left. 
Move to and read next is the key to the right.
The lower the numbers the smaller the movement unit.  1 2 and 3 move by character. 

4 5 and 6 move by word, etc.
Now, here are the laptop layout review commands:
Read current line, NVDA shift  period
Move to and read next line, NVDA down arrow.
Move to and read previous line NVDA up arrow.
Read current word NVDA control period
Read previous word NVDA control left arrow
Read next word NVDA control right arrow
Announce current character NVDA period.
Move to and read previous character NVDA left arrow
Move to and read next character NVDA right arrow.
After a little more discussion, I'll tell you how to change the keyboard layout to

laptop.

Getting back to the review keys in the laptop layout, There are sort of patterns

in the laptop layout but not the kind of uniform pattern as in the desktop layout.

 If I had a laptop computer without a numpad, I'd buy a USB numpad and not fool

around with the laptop layout.  But you can decide that for yourself.  But aside

from predictable keys such as that period is used for current, and that left and

right arrows are useed with modifiers, you can't generalize more.  Such patterns

are not followed in every previous and next item.  In one of the previous and next

items, up and down arrow is used. 

 

I shall now explain how to change the layout from the desktop to the laptop layout

and discuss causing the caps lock to be used as an NVDA key.  If you add capslock,

you can still use either insert.  there are times when caps lock is very

convenient.

 

to open the keyboard layout issue the command control insert k.
You are now in a list of layouts.
the desktop is the default and the first in the list. 
If you want to switch to the laptop layout, down arrow once and then tab to and

activate the ok button. 


You will notice as you tab, check boxes about which keys serve as the NVDA key.
Caps lock is not checked.  Check it with the space bar.
You can stay in the desk top layout and still tab and see these check boxes.  I

use the caps lock key as an NVDA key often and I use the desktop layout.  I find

it much more convenient to use for the read to end command.  I hold caps lock and

press down arrow.  That is, to me, much more convenient than using insert down

arrow, regardless of which insert I use. 
If you want to toggle caps lock on and off for typing, press it twice quickly.  If

you press it once and hold it, it serves as an NVDA key.  If you press it twice

quickly, it toggles caps lock on and off.

 

Here are two more important commands:
Jump to top of window, shift numpad 7.

Laptop layout command:

control NVDA key home.
Jump to bottom of window is shift numpad 9.

Laptop layout command:

Control NVDA key end.

 

I've said top and bottom of Window but that's oversimplified.  It depends what kind

of review mode you are using.  I won't go into that to any extent in this very

short tutorial. 

 

If you are reviewing material in a word processor, use the review commands I've

given. 
If you are in a dialog or some other structures, in order to see what is on screen,

change to screen review mode.  to do this, use the command numpad insert numpad 7

in the desktop layout. 
In the laptop layout, the command is NVDA key page up..  Issue the command and

repeat it if necessary until you hear screen review. 
then you can use the review commands such as numpad 7, 8 9, etc. to review what is

on screen. 


To left click with the mouse, route the mouse to the review position with the

command numpad insert numpad slash.  That is the same command you left click wwith

in Window-eyes.  If you want to right click, route the mouse with the same command,

numpad insert numpad slash, then use numpad star, the key immediately to the right

of numpad slash.  In other words, you right click with the same key you use in

Window-eyes.
After you have finished working in screen review, it is very important to return

to object review.  Issue the command numpad insert numpad one in the desktop

layout.  the laptop layout command is NVDA Key page down.  Repeat the command  if

necessary until you hear object review.  If you don't do this, you will often hear

incorrect information about where you are when you do various things in NVDA. 

Screen review, though the commands are different, is similar in concept to using

the mouse pointer in Window-eyes.  Object navigation is different from any review

mode in Window-eyes.  I won't teach its use here but you will find a discussion of

it in a tutorial I will give an address for later in this tutorial.  Depending on

how you use your computer, you may find it very useful. 

 

That is just about all I will teach in this very short tutorial.  As I said, its

purpose is to allow you to do much of what you do with Window-eyes quickly and

easily.  But  I'll tell you a few more things.

 

Internet browsing:
When you are on a web page, quick navigation commands are almost identical whether

you are using NVDA or Window-eyes. 
Move by headings is h.  Skip blocks of links is n. 
Move to next button is b, 
Next combo box is c.
Next check box is x.
NVDA has an input help mode which is similar to what is in Window-eyes.  Insert and

1 on the main keyboard turns it on.  When you press a key or combination of keys

that might be a command, you will hear what the keys are and what, if any command

they execute.  This varies depending on where you are.
When in a browser that supports browse mode, typing a lot of individual letters

will give you information about what the keys do in browse mode.  I already gave

much of that information above but you may want to press a lot of keys using input

mode in a browser. 

To turn input mode off use the same command you used to turn it on, insert 1.

 

to learn more about NVDA, a popular tutorial is available at

http://www.josephsl.net/tutorials
On that page, you will see links to download different sections of the tutorial dealing with

different subjects.  You can also download the entire tutorial as a zip file.

 

There is also an e-mail list for NVDA users.  To join, send a blank message to this

 

I hope that this tutorial has removed much of your apprehension about switching to

NVDA.  Now, as you wish or need, you may consult the tutorial I gave a link to. 

NVDA is a powerful screen-reader and it will meet a lot of users needs as well as

JAWS or Window-eyes does.  I hope this very short tutorial gives you a good

foundation on which to build confidence that the transition should be much easier

than you may have thought and that it will help make it much more enjoyable.


Re: Accessible music notation software

brandon
 

thank you all for your kind suggestions.

On 5/28/17, Jorge Gonçalves <joport3@gmail.com> wrote:
I forgot to say. With Braille music Editor 2, you can have print scores
if you export your braille music as Muxicxml File. This allows a sighted
person to open this file with a mainstream Notation software and print
it. I have done it without any problems.


Às 20:45 de 27/05/2017, brandon escreveu:
Greetings list,

I am planning on starting my journey on becomming a music major in the
fall of this year.
I was wondering if there are any accessible programs that can help me in
music notation.
Especially ones that can display music notation in the standard print
way.
Also if there are any tips and tricks of the trade that can help those
would be appreciated.
Kind regards,
Brandon





Re: Accessible music notation software

Jorge Gonçalves <joport3@...>
 

I forgot to say. With Braille music Editor 2, you can have print scores if you export your braille music as Muxicxml File. This allows a sighted person to open this file with a mainstream Notation software and print it. I have done it without any problems.


Às 20:45 de 27/05/2017, brandon escreveu:

Greetings list,

I am planning on starting my journey on becomming a music major in the fall of this year.
I was wondering if there are any accessible programs that can help me in music notation.
Especially ones that can display music notation in the standard print way.
Also if there are any tips and tricks of the trade that can help those would be appreciated.
Kind regards,
Brandon


Re: Accessible music notation software

Jorge Gonçalves <joport3@...>
 

Hello:


You also have Braille Music Editor 2

http://www.veia.it/en/bme2_product


For this software there is a Add-on for Nvda which makes it perfectly usable with our screen reader.

Cheers,

Jorge



Às 00:26 de 28/05/2017, John Sanfilippo escreveu:

Hi,

You might try these:

1, www.lilypond.org: This is open source software which runs on many
platforms. It is text based, so you learn a text coding which is
interpreted by lilypond, and output as PDF and MIDI files. You print the
pdf and optionally listen to the midi file.

2, www.Musescore.org is an open source scoring program like Sibelius or
Finale. Scores are written on screen using keyboard and mouse. They are
aware of accessibility, but they say that the program is right now more
suitable for reading scores than writing them for visually impaired.

Now, if you have some funds there are two other scoring programs:

3, Sibelius which has Jaws and some NVDA support.
More info is here:
http://www.raisedbar.co.uk/Sibelius/SibeliusAccessV5.htm

4, www.dancingdots.com develops a program called Goodfeel. For this you
must run Jaws. I know of no NVDA support, though that may be
forthcoming. This is a suite of programs which includes SharpEye, a
music OCR program for scanning printed music, Lime, a print music
scoring program made accessible by Jaws scripts called LimeAloud, and
Goodfeel, a braille music transcribing software which converts Lime
scores into braille music.

Hope this helps some.

John S



On 5/27/17 15:45, brandon wrote:
Greetings list,

I am planning on starting my journey on becomming a music major in the fall of this year.
I was wondering if there are any accessible programs that can help me in music notation.
Especially ones that can display music notation in the standard print way.
Also if there are any tips and tricks of the trade that can help those would be appreciated.
Kind regards,
Brandon


Re: The more or less finished tutorial

Gene
 

I've made some changes and corrected some errors.  Unless others make suggestions I adopt, this should be the final version.
 
Gene
 
Moving from Window-eyes to NVDA
A very short tutorial telling you just what you need to know to do a lot of what
you did before.
 
First, a word about using the tutorial.  I explain concepts in the tutorial but
much of what I do is to give commands that are different in NVDA.  As I explain, a
lot of what you do won't change but certain things will require different commands.
 
 To use this tutorial effectively, practicing many commands I give might be very
useful.  For example, when I give screen review commands, stopping reading and
practicing in this document might help you remember and learn them.  When I
describe input help, turning it on and trying different keys and combinations of
keys might be helpful.  You will find, for example, that the screen review commands
I give are announced when you have key describer on and issue the commands.  That
will help you review quickly and efficiently if you for get any of them, something
that is far more likely to occur in the laptop layout than the desktop layout. 
Now that I've suggested ways to use it effectively, the tutorial begins.
 
Many people are apprehensive about switching to NVDA or any other screen-reader
from Window-eyes.  This tutorial will explain and demonstrate that such
apprehensions are largely based on misunderstandings. 
Before I discuss the misunderstanding that causes most of this apprehension, I'll
briefly discuss installing NVDA and changing the synthesizer used and speech
parameters.
 
NVDA has a talking installer.  run the file as you would any installation file. 
you may get a dialog asking if you want to run the file.  Use the command alt r
for run.  If you get a UAC prompt, answer alt y. 
Run narrator.  Then run the NVDA installer. 
when you run the installer, there will be a pause and then a bit of music will
play.  Not long after, the talking installer will run.  Unload Narrator at that
point.  return to the install dialog.
Tab through the dchoices.  Accept the license agreement and then tab to install. 
You will get other options but install is the one you want.

Don't stop using NvDA because of the voice.  A lot of people don't try NVDA because
of the voice.  As soon as you get it set up, I'll tell you how to change the
synthesizer used.
 
When NVDA is installed and running, a dialog box comes up with some explanatory
text and the ability to set one or two options.  While I know a lot of people very
much dislike the default voice, it's worth listening to the dialog and looking at
the settings by tabbing through them. 
I would recommend checking the check box to use caps lock as an NVDA modifier. 
You'll see why I recommend this in later discussion.
 
After you go through the initial parameters dialog, it's time to learn how to
change the synthesizer. 
Issue the command control insert s.  Use either insert.  From now on, assume you
can use either insert unless I state differently.
A synthesizer selection dialog will open.
You will see a list of different possibly available synthesizers.  Choose SAPI 5. 
I know everyone has at least one SAPI 5 voice on their machine.  Up and down arrow
through the list and stop on SAPI five.  Press enter.
You will now hear another voice.  It may be the same voice you hear in Narrator. 
Now issue the command control insert v.
You are now in the voice selection and adjustment dialog. 
Up and down arrow to see what voices are available.  Stop on the one you want. 
Now tab through the dialog and change settings for the voice. 
Once you find a voice you want and tab through and set whatever you want such as
speed and punctuation, press the ok button. 
 
Now, let's continue with what I spoke of at the start of this tutorial.  The
misunderstanding that makes the switch to NVDA from Window-eyes or from any other screen-reader seem daunting is that the user doesn't
realize that most of the commands he/she uses are Windows commands and program
commands and they won't change.
Consider the following examples:
Opening menus was and still is alt.  That's a Windows command to open menus in
programs.  It's the same no matter which screen-reader you use. 
Control o for open doesn't change.  Using the arrow keys to move in a document
doesn't change.  Tabbing through dialogs doesn't change.  Neither does how you move
in a list or a treeview or work with a combo box, and the list goes on. 
Screen-reader commands, many of which may change, such as read title bar, provide
access to information you can't get or can't get conveniently by using Windows or
program commands.  for example, read title bar.  In Window-eyes, the command is
control shift t.  In NVDA, it's insert t. 
The title bar is something a sighted person looks at.  You can't move to it with
the pc cursor or application cursor, whatever you wish to call it, because there is
no need.  A sighted person can just see it.  So the screen-reader has a command,
read title bar.  That command is not a Windows nor a program command.
Here are the screen-reader commands you will need to know to allow you to do a lot
of what you did before.
To unload NVDA, insert q then enter.
Read title bar, insert t. 
Time, insert f12. 
Announce formatting information, insert f.
Read current Window, insert b.  In Window-eyes the command is control shift w. 
Read to end, insert down arrow.  Use the down arrow on the main keyboard.
In the laptop layout, read to end is NVDA key a. 
Stop speech with control, as with screen-readers in general. 
 
I'm about to discuss screen-review commands.  those let you review the screen
without changing the position of the cursor when editing a document, or changing
where you are in a dialog or anywhere else.  But first, I'll point out that
Commands such as left arrow, right arrow, control home, control end, control left
arrow, and control right arrow are Windows movement commands for moving in any
standard edit field including word processor edit fields.  None of them will
change.
 
Screen review commands:
Note the pattern as I give these commands:
Read previous line, numpad 7. 
Read current line, numpad 8.
Read next line numpad nine.
You move in screen review to the previous or next line when you issue those
commands.  You can keep moving and reading until you get to the top or bottom of
the screen.
Read previous word, numpad 4.
Read current word, numpad 5.
Read next word, numpad 6.
Read previous character, numpad 1.
Read current character, numpad 2.
Read next character, numpad 3.
Note the pattern.  Read current is the key in the middle of each of these rows.
Move to and read previous is the key on the left. 
Move to and read next is the key to the right.
The lower the numbers the smaller the movement unit.  1 2 and 3 move by character. 
4 5 and 6 move by word, etc.
Now, here are the laptop layout review commands:
Read current line, NVDA shift  period
Move to and read next line, NVDA down arrow.
Move to and read previous line NVDA up arrow.
Read current word NVDA control period
Read previous word NVDA control left arrow
Read next word NVDA control right arrow
Announce current character NVDA period.
Move to and read previous character NVDA left arrow
Move to and read next character NVDA right arrow.
After a little more discussion, I'll tell you how to change the keyboard layout to
laptop.
Getting back to the review keys in the laptop layout, There are sort of patterns
in the laptop layout but not the kind of uniform pattern as in the desktop layout.
 If I had a laptop computer without a numpad, I'd buy a USB numpad and not fool
around with the laptop layout.  But you can decide that for yourself.  But aside
from predictable keys such as that period is used for current, and that left and
right arrows are useed with modifiers, you can't generalize more.  Such patterns
are not followed in every previous and next item.  In one of the previous and next
items, up and down arrow is used. 
 
I shall now explain how to change the layout from the desktop to the laptop layout
and discuss causing the caps lock to be used as an NVDA key.  If you add capslock,
you can still use either insert.  there are times when caps lock is very
convenient.
 
to open the keyboard layout issue the command control insert k.
You are now in a list of layouts.
the desktop is the default and the first in the list. 
If you want to switch to the laptop layout, down arrow once and then tab to and
activate the ok button. 

You will notice as you tab, check boxes about which keys serve as the NVDA key.
Caps lock is not checked.  Check it with the space bar.
You can stay in the desk top layout and still tab and see these check boxes.  I
use the caps lock key as an NVDA key often and I use the desktop layout.  I find
it much more convenient to use for the read to end command.  I hold caps lock and
press down arrow.  That is, to me, much more convenient than using insert down
arrow, regardless of which insert I use. 
If you want to toggle caps lock on and off for typing, press it twice quickly.  If
you press it once and hold it, it serves as an NVDA key.  If you press it twice
quickly, it toggles caps lock on and off.
 
Here are two more important commands:
Jump to top of window, shift numpad 7.
Laptop layout command:
control NVDA key home.
Jump to bottom of window is shift numpad 9.
Laptop layout command:
Control NVDA key end.
 
I've said top and bottom of Window but that's oversimplified.  It depends what kind
of review mode you are using.  I won't go into that to any extent in this very
short tutorial. 
 
If you are reviewing material in a word processor, use the review commands I've
given. 
If you are in a dialog or some other structures, in order to see what is on screen,
change to screen review mode.  to do this, use the command numpad insert numpad 7
in the desktop layout. 
In the laptop layout, the command is NVDA key page up..  Issue the command and
repeat it if necessary until you hear screen review. 
then you can use the review commands such as numpad 7, 8 9, etc. to review what is
on screen. 

To left click with the mouse, route the mouse to the review position with the
command numpad insert numpad slash.  That is the same command you left click wwith
in Window-eyes.  If you want to right click, route the mouse with the same command,
numpad insert numpad slash, then use numpad star, the key immediately to the right
of numpad slash.  In other words, you right click with the same key you use in
Window-eyes.
After you have finished working in screen review, it is very important to return
to object review.  Issue the command numpad insert numpad one in the desktop
layout.  the laptop layout command is NVDA Key page down.  Repeat the command  if
necessary until you hear object review.  If you don't do this, you will often hear
incorrect information about where you are when you do various things in NVDA. 
Screen review, though the commands are different, is similar in concept to using
the mouse pointer in Window-eyes.  Object navigation is different from any review
mode in Window-eyes.  I won't teach its use here but you will find a discussion of
it in a tutorial I will give an address for later in this tutorial.  Depending on
how you use your computer, you may find it very useful. 
 
That is just about all I will teach in this very short tutorial.  As I said, its
purpose is to allow you to do much of what you do with Window-eyes quickly and
easily.  But  I'll tell you a few more things.
 
Internet browsing:
When you are on a web page, quick navigation commands are almost identical whether
you are using NVDA or Window-eyes. 
Move by headings is h.  Skip blocks of links is n. 
Move to next button is b, 
Next combo box is c.
Next check box is x.
NVDA has an input help mode which is similar to what is in Window-eyes.  Insert and
1 on the main keyboard turns it on.  When you press a key or combination of keys
that might be a command, you will hear what the keys are and what, if any command
they execute.  This varies depending on where you are.
When in a browser that supports browse mode, typing a lot of individual letters
will give you information about what the keys do in browse mode.  I already gave
much of that information above but you may want to press a lot of keys using input
mode in a browser. 
To turn input mode off use the same command you used to turn it on, insert 1.
 
to learn more about NVDA, a popular tutorial is available at
http://www.josephsl.net/tutorials
On that page, you will see links to download different sections of the tutorial dealing with
different subjects.  You can also download the entire tutorial as a zip file.
 
There is also an e-mail list for NVDA users.  To join, send a blank message to this
 
I hope that this tutorial has removed much of your apprehension about switching to
NVDA.  Now, as you wish or need, you may consult the tutorial I gave a link to. 
NVDA is a powerful screen-reader and it will meet a lot of users needs as well as
JAWS or Window-eyes does.  I hope this very short tutorial gives you a good
foundation on which to build confidence that the transition should be much easier
than you may have thought and that it will help make it much more enjoyable.


Re: Accessible music notation software

 

Rosemarie,

             That's very useful information to have, particularly for those who might just be beginning to wade into music.

              I would hope that someone who is considering a music major in college who also happens to be blind would already be entirely proficient with Braille music notation.  Majoring in music, whether performance or education, presumes a thorough knowledge of more than just the basics from the outset.  I made the presumption that someone considering a music major would be proficient in Braille music notation if they are blind.  In Brandon's case I also presumed that the need is for some sort of "instant translator" program that allows his sighted fellow-musicians to see the music he's working with or they're all trying to work with in the conventional musical notation and to be able to do this "on the fly".
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.332

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: The more or less finished tutorial

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Gene,

 

I have a friend who uses Window-eyes so this will be a great tutorial for him.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 5:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] The more or less finished tutorial

 

Here is my brief tutorial on making the transition from Window-eyes to NVDA.  I'm not sure if I'm completely satisfied with it and I'll consider making changes based on comments.  But this may well be the final or just about the final version.

 

Gene

Moving from Window-eyes to NVDA
A very short tutorial telling you just what you need to know to do a lot of what

 

you did before.

 

Many people are apprehensive about switching to NVDA or any other screen-reader

 

from Window-eyes.  This tutorial will explain and demonstrate that such

 

apprehensions are largely based on misunderstandings. 

 

Before I discuss the misunderstanding that causes most of this apprehension, I'll

 

briefly discuss installing NVDA and changing the synthesizer used and speech

 

parameters.

 

NVDA has a talking installer.  run the file as you would any installation file. 

 

you may get a dialog asking if you want to run the file.  Use the command alt r

 

for run.  If you get a UAC prompt, answer alt y. 
Run narrator.  Then run the NVDA installer. 
when you run the installer, there will be a pause and then a bit of music will

 

play.  Not long after, the talking installer will run.  Unload Narrator at that

 

point.  return to the install dialog.
Tab through the dchoices.  Accept the license agreement and then tab to install. 

 

You will get other options but install is the one you want.
Don't stop using NvDA because of the voice.  A lot of people don't try NVDA because

 

of the voice.  As soon as you get it set up, I'll tell you how to change the

 

synthesizer used.

 

When NVDA is installed and running, a dialog box comes up with some explanatory

 

text and the ability to set one or two options.  While I know a lot of people very

 

much dislike the default voice, it's worth listening to the dialog and looking at

 

the settings by tabbing through them. 

 

I would recommend checking the check box to use caps lock as an NVDA modifier. 

 

You'll see why I recommend this in later discussion.

 

After you go through the initial parameters dialog, it's time to learn how to

 

change the synthesizer. 
Issue the command control insert s.  Use either insert.  From now on, assume you

 

can use either insert unless I state differently.
A synthesizer selection dialog will open.
You will see a list of different possibly available synthesizers.  Choose SAPI 5. 

 

I know everyone has at least one SAPI 5 voice on their machine.  Up and down arrow

 

through the list and stop on SAPI five.  Press enter.
You will now hear another voice.  It may be the same voice you hear in Narrator. 
Now issue the command control insert v.
You are now in the voice selection and adjustment dialog. 
Up and down arrow to see what voices are available.  Stop on the one you want. 
Now tab through the dialog and change settings for the voice. 
Once you find a voice you want and tab through and set whatever you want such as

 

speed and punctuation, press the ok button. 

 

Now, let's continue with what I spoke of at the start of this tutorial.  The

 

misunderstanding that makes the switch seem daunting is that the user doesn't

 

realize that most of the commands he/she uses are Windows commands and program

 

commands and they won't change.

 

Consider the following examples:
Opening menus was and still is alt.  That's a Windows command to open menus in

 

programs.  It's the same no matter which screen-reader you use. 
Control o for open doesn't change.  Using the arrow keys to move in a document

 

doesn't change.  Tabbing through dialogs doesn't change.  Neither does how you move

 

in a list or a treeview or work with a combo box, and the list goes on. 
Screen-reader commands, many of which may change, such as read title bar, provide

 

access to information you can't get or can't get conveniently by using Windows or

 

program commands.  for example, read title bar.  In Window-eyes, the command is

 

control shift t.  In NVDA, it's insert t.  I am assuming throughout this tutorial

 

that you are using the default desktop layout in NVDA.  All commands are given in

 

that layout.  The title bar is something a sighted person looks at.  You can't move

 

to it with the pc cursor or application cursor, whatever you wish to call it,

 

because there is no need.  A sighted person can just see it.  So the screen-reader

 

has a command, read title bar.  That command is not a Windows nor a program

 

command.

 

Here are the screen-reader commands you will need to know to allow you to do a lot

 

of what you did before.
To unload NVDA, insert q then enter.
Read title bar, insert t. 
Time, insert f12. 
Announce formatting information, insert f.
Read current Window, insert b.  In Window-eyes the command is control shift w. 
Read to end, insert down arrow.  Use the down arrow on the main keyboard.
In the laptop layout, read to end is NVDA key a. 
Stop speech with control, as with screen-readers in general. 
Commands such as control home, control end, control left and right arrow are

 

Windows movement commands for moving in any standard edit field including word

 

processor edit fields.  None of them will change.
More screen-reader commands:
Screen review commands:
Note the pattern as I give these commands:
Read previous line, numpad 7. 
Read current line, numpad 8.
Read next line numpad nine.
You move in screen review to the previous or next line when you issue those

 

commands.  You can keep moving and reading until you get to the top or bottom of

 

the screen.
Read previous word, numpad 4.
Read current word, numpad 5.
Read next word, numpad 6.
Read previous character, numpad 1.
Read current character, numpad 2.
Read next character, numpad 3.
Note the pattern.  Read current is the key in the middle of each of these rows.
Move to and read previous is the key on the left. 
Move to and read next is the key to the right.
The lower the numbers the smaller the movement unit.  1 2 and 3 move by character. 

 

4 5 and 6 move by word.  Etc.
Now, here are the laptop layout review commands:
Read current line, NVDA shift  period
Move to and read next line, NVDA down arrow.
Move to and read previous line NVDA up arrow.
Read current word NVDA control period
Read previous word NVDA control left arrow
Read next word NVDA control right arrow
Announce current character NVDA period.
Move to and read previous character NVDA left arrow
Move to and read next character NVDA right arrow.
After a little more discussion, I'll tell you how to change the keyboard layout to

 

laptop.

 

Getting back to the review keys in the laptop layout, There are sort of patterns

 

in the laptop layout but not the kind of uniform pattern as in the desktop layout.

 

 If I had a laptop computer without a numpad, I'd buy a USB numpad and not fool

 

around with the laptop layout.  But you can decide that for yourself.  But aside

 

from predictable keys such as that period is used for current, and that left and

 

right arrows are useed with modifiers, you can't generalize more.  Such patterns

 

are not followed in every previous and next item.  In one of the previous and next

 

items, up and down arrow is used. 

 

I shall now explain how to change the layout from the desktop to the laptop layout

 

and discuss causing the caps lock to be used as an NVDA key.  If you add capslock,

 

you can still use either insert.  there are times when caps lock is very

 

convenient.

 

to open the keyboard layout issue the command control insert k.
You are now in a list of layouts.
the desktop is the default and the first in the list. 
If you want to switch to the laptop layout, down arrow once and then tab to and

 

activate the ok button. 
You will notice as you tab, check boxes about which keys serve as the NVDA key.
Caps lock is not checked.  Check it with the space bar.
You can stay in the desk top layout and still tab and see these check boxes.  I

 

use the caps lock key as an NVDA key often and I use the desktop layout.  I find

 

it much more convenient to use for the read to end command.  I hold caps lock and

 

press down arrow.  That is, to me, much more convenient than using insert down

 

arrow, regardless of which insert I use. 
If you want to toggle caps lock on and off for typing, press it twice quickly.  If

 

you press it once and hold it, it serves as an NVDA key.  If you press it twice

 

quickly, it toggles caps lock on and off.

 

Here are two more important commands:
Jump to top of window, shift numpad 7.
Jump to bottom of window is shift numpad 9.

 

I've said top and bottom of Window but that's oversimplified.  It depends what kind

 

of review mode you are using.  I won't go into that to any extent in this very

 

short tutorial. 
You should usually be in object review.  Unless you change it, you will remain

 

there.  If you use another review mode, afterword, make sure you return to object

 

reviewIf you don't, you won't hear what you expect to hear at various times. 
To make sure you are in object review, issue the command numpad insert nummpad 1. 

 

When you are already in object review and can't move to another review mode, you

 

will hear no previous review mode.  You will then know you are in the right one. 

 

Or if you are returning from another review mode, when you hear object review, you

 

will know you are back in the right one.
I won't describe its use here, but screen review is similar not in commands, but in

 

how you review the screen to the Window-eyes cursor.  Object review is different

 

from any review mode available in Window-eyes.  It is valuable to know for various

 

uses.  Depending on how you use your computer, you may find it valuable or not.  I'm

 

simply making you aware that it is different and that you may want to learn it.

 

I'll provide a resource that teaches in great detail how to use NVDA.
This tutorial is to get you going using NVDA and to show you that even with the

 

little I will teach, you can still do a good deal of what you used to do.  You may

 

then learn more as you wish.

 

Believe it or not, that is just about all I will teach in this very short tutorial

 

but  I'll tell you a few more things.
Internet browsing:
When you are on a web page, quick navigation commands are almost identical whether

 

you are using NVDA or Window-eyes. 
Move by headings is h.  Skip blocks of links is n. 
Move to next button is b, 
Next combo box is c.
Next check box is x.
NVDA has an input help mode which is similar to what is in Window-eyes.  Insert and

 

1 on the main keyboard turns it on.  When you press a key or combination of keys

 

that might be a command, you will hear what the keys are and what, if any command

 

they execute.  This varies depending on where you are.
When in a browser that supports browse mode, typing a lot of individual letters

 

will give you information about what the keys do in browse mode.  I already gave

 

much of that information above but you may want to press a lot of keys using input

 

mode in a browser. 

 

To turn input mode off use the same command you used to turn it on, insert 1.

 

to learn more about NVDA, a popular tutorial is available at

 

http://www.josephsl.net/tutorials
On that page, you will see links to download different sections dealing with

 

different subjects.  You can also download the entire tutorial as a zip file.

 

There is also an e-mail list for NVDA users.  To join, send a blank message to this

 

 

I hope that this tutorial has removed much of your apprehension about switching to

 

NVDA.  Now, as you wish or need, you may consult the tutorial I gave a link to. 

 

NVDA is a powerful screen-reader and it will meet a lot of users needs as well as

 

JAWS or Window-eyes does.  I hope this very short tutorial gives you a good

 

foundation on which to build confidence that the transition should be much easier

 

than you may have thought and that it will help make it much more enjoyable.


Re: Accessible music notation software

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Brian,

 

If Brandon needs to learn braille music, Hadley School for the Blind has courses in braille music. That might be a first step for him.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 5:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible music notation software

 

Brandon,

           I forwarded your message to a dear friend of mine who's an organist and who's been blind since birth.  Here is her response:
--------------------
He needs to learn braille music, and somewhere out there is something, don't know what to call it, that shows what the print notation looks like, but personally I'd have to ask questions before I could answer his. If you think I'd be helpful, permission granted to give him my email.
--------------------
           If you wish to take her up on her offer please send me a private message and I'll arrange a cyber introduction.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.332

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr