Date   

soft-voice and objPad comments

Josh Kennedy
 

Upon using objPad for a bit I can say that it is excellent at what it does! I wanted a jaws-like-cursor for NVDA? I got one and in fact its so awesome because it takes the old jaws cursor along with the jaws touch cursor and rolls them into one yet its even easier to use! I really really like objPad and will be telling everyone about it. And I may have found another free synthesizer addon for NVDA for all of us to use. For personal use only, not commercial use... It is called soft-voice and it sounds similar to eloquence but better than eSpeak. I have one or two more things to check out with the soft-voice tts makers but once I do and everything is go then I'll let all of you know the final verdict on soft-voice tts. I can tell you that it sounds a bit like eloquence but it only supports english and spanish languages. and that it has a bunch of interesting novelty voices along with the normal voices and its very small and fast and responsive. I will not post it here though until I'm certain its fine with the authors.


Re: How To Know If You Have The Latest NVDA Update

Sylvie Duchateau
 

Hello Tom,
Yesterday I used a computer with the 2017.1 version of NVDA and it offered me to update to the 2017.2 that was just released.
So if you don't have the latest version, it should propose you to update.
To check which version of NVDA you have,
open the NVDA menu with nvda+n,
choose help (with the up arrow keys) or type h
choose about with up arrow or type a.
You will hear the content of the displayed dialog alert in typing nvda+b.
This should be nvda 2017.2
I hope this helps!
Best
Sylvie

Le 30/05/2017 à 16:09, Tom Behler a écrit :

Hello, everyone.

 

I’m very new to NVDA, having just installed the program and joined this list a week or so ago.

 

I understand there is a new NVDA update, but I’m not sure how to know what version of NVDA I currently have, and how to get the latest update.

 

Or, does NVDA update itself automatically?

 

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

 

Dr.  Tom Behler from Michigan

 



How To Know If You Have The Latest NVDA Update

Tom Behler <tombehler@...>
 

Hello, everyone.

 

I’m very new to NVDA, having just installed the program and joined this list a week or so ago.

 

I understand there is a new NVDA update, but I’m not sure how to know what version of NVDA I currently have, and how to get the latest update.

 

Or, does NVDA update itself automatically?

 

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

 

Dr.  Tom Behler from Michigan

 


Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Kwork
 


Gene, it was erik burggraaf who changed the subject line and originally added the "fear mongering?" before the "Re" in the subject line.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Such events cause rumor and speculation to spread throughout the blind computer using community.  You may not be susceptible to such rumors but a lot of people give serious attention to such rumors and speculation. 
 
I am now speaking as a moderator.  My previous comments were as a member, not a moderator.
I haven't followed the subject line carefully for this thread.  Did you change it and add the phrase fear mongering?  If you want to characterize it, please don't change the subject line to do so.  Characterize it in the message body.  Subject lines should not be changed unless a subject departs from the original to the extent that it has no meaningful relation to the original subject.  This is still a discussion of the original subject.  If you change subject lines, it creates a new branch in the archives.  It also causes all those who read mail by conversation to see an entirely new conversation where none exists. 
 
Now speaking as a member again, fear mongering is not an accurate characterization of the message. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

My point is that is was so unlikely to happen people shouldn’t be worried about it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750






Automatic DownLoading and Installation of NVDA updates and AddOns

James Robinson
 

Hello!
 
I would like to see NVDA have an automatic downloading and installing of each latest update while NVDA is running and it would be good if all of the latest new AddOns would be gathered up or collected in one folder and also automatically downloaded and installed once every three months, which means us amatures would be able to get the latest updates and AddOns automatically and would not miss out on important updates and AddOns; I often don’t know which updates and/or AddOns to download and install, sometimes missing them altogether, so this practice would help me immensely in keeping up to date with the development of NVDA, as it strives to keep pace with Windows 10 development; maybe this is a bit unrealistic but it could work and benefit all of us NVDA users; in order to facilitate financial donations, NVDA users could subscribe to email notifications with financial request adds in the emails and a checkbox could be added somewhere in NVDA to turn this feature on or off and give people automatic donations in whichever amount they wish; I know I am acting lazy here but many new NVDA users could be helped by knowing he or she has the most current product available; and I think you guys for listening to me on this matter.
 
 
Sincerely,


James Arthur Robinson, President
Jardata Corporation


Weather Plus update available

Adriano Barbieri
 

 Hi to every one,

Changes to version 4.3 30.05.2017
* Added German localization (thanks to Karl Eick).

Weather Plus it can auto-update, but you can also download it from:
http://addons.nvda-project.org/
Direct download::
http://www.nvda.it/system/files/plugin/weather_plus4.3.nvda-addon?download=1

Cheers
Adriano


Re: IRC clients that work well with NVDA

Sukil Etxenike <sukiletxe@...>
 

Hi,

I've tried Thunderbird (which fails to read incoming messages automatically), Instantbird (which is not bad at all), Miranda (which I don't recommend) and Chatzilla, a Firefox add-on (which is what I use now). The only problem with Chatzilla is that it clutters your preferences when it is not needed (i. e. one view, one preference item).

Hth,

Sukil




El 26/05/2017 a las 19:22, Deborah Armstrong escribió:
At NVDACon, we briefly discussed IRC clients and I'd like some more information.  Irc appeals to me over voice-chatting because I'm often at work and don't want to make it obvious that I'm not always working on what the boss would like me working on. It's also why I don't Skype that often.

I'd like to hang out on Irc with some NVDA users, but in the past, I haven't found clients that worked that great. Most of them did not make it easy to skim messages, and many repeated info I'd already heard because the screen reader had trouble tracking what I'd read already.  

I did use Talking Irc for a while, which I really liked but it has malware or something that Norton antivirus whined about and I didn't want to risk continuing to use it.
Also I see that the Irc link at the bottom of NVDA digest post is different than the link on the NVDA community page. Are there two different places where users hang out?their


Re: IRC clients that work well with NVDA

Jenni Kent <jennipalmer@...>
 

what about mirc i thought i saw an nvda add on for mirc out there somewhere but I can't remember where where at the moment. thing is you have to purchase mirc but I all ready did that so i am going to go find that add on and install it and see how it does. I would jusg google mirc nvda addon and see how that goes if you have mirc all ready now if we could support it a good client is ice chat its free we just need someone to write an add on for it. I don't have the skills.



On 5/26/2017 4:28 PM, The Wolf wrote:

I think facebook is broken with instand bird


On 5/26/2017 2:26 PM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:
Hello Deborah and all, 
I don't know which IRC link you are looking for (the one indicated at the bottom of each of the list messages, or the link from the NVDA community). 
As IRC client, I use Instantbird which works very well with NVDA. 
Look for Instantbird in your favourite search engine. 
When you have installed Instantbird, you need to create an account. 
First, choose IRC in the list (there are other messaging tools such as Twitter, Facebook, and many others). 
Then you have to give the server link, your user name, password if needed and give the channel name, for example #nvda. 
I hope this can help you!
Have a nice week-end!
Sylvie
Le 26 mai 2017 à 19:22, Deborah Armstrong <debee@...> a écrit :

At NVDACon, we briefly discussed IRC clients and I'd like some more information.  Irc appeals to me over voice-chatting because I'm often at work and don't want to make it obvious that I'm not always working on what the boss would like me working on. It's also why I don't Skype that often.

I'd like to hang out on Irc with some NVDA users, but in the past, I haven't found clients that worked that great. Most of them did not make it easy to skim messages, and many repeated info I'd already heard because the screen reader had trouble tracking what I'd read already.  

I did use Talking Irc for a while, which I really liked but it has malware or something that Norton antivirus whined about and I didn't want to risk continuing to use it.
Also I see that the Irc link at the bottom of NVDA digest post is different than the link on the NVDA community page. Are there two different places where users hang out?their



Re: NVDA 2017.2 official release announcement

Quentin Christensen
 

The user interface translation changes all the messages and dialog box text into the chosen language.  The Burmese eSpeak changes the way the voice speaks to pronounce letter groups and words, as they would normally be in Burmese speech.  Your system language will determine the default behaviour of NVDA, but you could change the language to Burmese and choose a Burmese synthesizer.  It won't actually translate anything though, so if you try and read say a Word document that is in English, it will still read it in English, just with very odd pronunciation.



On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Ben J. Bloomgren <bbloomgren@...> wrote:
OK, so when you see that NVDA has a new language, you don't mean that I can now access Burmese from my English NVDA. Darn it darn it darn! There is an E speak and G voice for Burmese, but it's terrible in my view, even though I don't speak Burmese.

On May 29, 2017, at 17:09, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:

Hi Ben,

Good questions.  Re Burmese, the translation was done by native speakers in Myanmar.

Re Aria-current.  I can't find any statistics on how commonly it is used yet, however having it working means that as and when you do come across a web page which uses it, you should find that NVDA is able to handle it correctly, so that's a good thing!

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Ben J. Bloomgren <bbloomgren@...> wrote:
OK, here goes my geeky self.

Burmese is one of those difficult languages from Southeast Asia. How well has anyone heard it working.? I think my night is eighty-sixed. I can't wait to also look at edge more. How well used is the aria current attribute?

Thanks,

Ben

On May 29, 2017, at 16:26, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

NVDA 2017.2 is officially available.


Version 2017.2 of the free NVDA screen Reader from NV Access is now available for download. Highlights of this release include full support for audio ducking in the Windows 10 Creators Update; fixes for several selection issues in browse mode, including problems with select all; significant improvements in Microsoft Edge support; and improvements on the web such as indication of elements marked as current (using aria-current).

NVDA is used by 10s of thousands of blind and vision impaired people spanning more than 120 countries, enabling them to socialise, get an education and participate in the workforce regardless of their location, language or economic situation. However, NV Access needs your help to continue this important work. Please consider making a donation when downloading.

To download NVDA, please visit our Download page.

The full what's new is below, which I know if of interest to many:

2017.2

Highlights of this release include full support for audio ducking in the Windows 10 Creators Update; fixes for several selection issues in browse mode, including problems with select all; significant improvements in Microsoft Edge support; and improvements on the web such as indication of elements marked as current (using aria-current).

New Features

  • Cell border information can now be reported in Microsoft Excel by using NVDA+f. (#3044)
  • In web browsers, NVDA now indicates when an element has been marked as current (specifically, using the aria-current attribute). (#6358)
  • Automatic language switching is now supported in Microsoft Edge. (#6852)
  • Added support for Windows Calculator on Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB (Long-Term Servicing Branch) and Server. (#6914)
  • Performing the read current line command three times quickly spells the line with character descriptions. (#6893)
  • New language: Burmese.
  • Unicode up and down arrows and fraction symbols are now spoken appropriately. (#3805)

Changes

  • When navigating with simple review in applications using UI Automation, more extraneous objects are now ignored, making navigation easier. (#6948#6950)

Bug Fixes

  • Web page menu items can now be activated while in browse mode. (#6735)
  • Pressing escape while the configuration profile "Confirm Deletion" dialog is active now dismisses the dialog. (#6851)
  • Fixed some crashes in Mozilla Firefox and other Gecko applications where the multi-process feature is enabled. (#6885)
  • Reporting of background color in screen review is now more accurate when text was drawn with a transparent background. (#6467)
  • Improved support for control descriptions provided on web pages in Internet Explorer 11 (specifically, support for aria-describedby within iframes and when multiple IDs are provided). (#5784)
  • In the Windows 10 Creators Update, NVDA's audio ducking again works as in previous Windows releases; i.e. Duck with speech and sounds, always duck and no ducking are all available. (#6933)
  • NVDA will no longer fail to navigate to or report certain (UIA) controls where a keyboard shortcut is not defined. (#6779)
  • Two empty spaces are no longer added in keyboard shortcut information for certain (UIA) controls. (#6790)
  • Certain combinations of keys on HIMS displays (e.g. space+dot4) no longer fail intermittently. (#3157)
  • Fixed an issue when opening a serial port on systems using certain languages other than English which caused connecting to braille displays to fail in some cases. (#6845)
  • Reduced the chance of the configuration file being corrupted when Windows shuts down. Configuration files are now written to a temporary file before replacing the actual configuration file. (#3165)
  • When performing the read current line command twice quickly to spell the line, the appropriate language is now used for the spelled characters. (#6726)
  • Navigating by line in Microsoft Edge is now up to three times faster in the Windows 10 Creators Update. (#6994)
  • NVDA no longer announces "Web Runtime grouping" when focusing Microsoft Edge documents in the Windows 10 Creators Update. (#6948)
  • All existing versions of SecureCRT are now supported. (#6302)
  • Adobe Acrobat Reader no longer crashes in certain PDF documents (specifically, those containing empty ActualText attributes). (#7021#7034)
  • In browse mode in Microsoft Edge, interactive tables (ARIA grids) are no longer skipped when navigating to tables with t and shift+t. (#6977)
  • In browse mode, pressing shift+home after selecting forward now unselects to the beginning of the line as expected. (#5746)
  • In browse mode, select all (control+a) no longer fails to select all text if the caret is not at the start of the text. (#6909)
  • Fixed some other rare selection problems in browse mode. (#7131)

Changes for Developers

  • Commandline arguments are now processed with Python's argparse module, rather than optparse. This allows certain options such as -r and -q to be handled exclusively. (#6865)
  • core.callLater now queues the callback to NVDA's main queue after the given delay, rather than waking the core and executing it directly. This stops possible freezes due to the core accidentally going to sleep after processing a callback, in the midle of a modal call such as the desplaying of a message box. (#6797)
  • The InputGesture.identifiers property has been changed so that it is no longer normalized. (#6945)
    • Subclasses no longer need to normalize identifiers before returning them from this property.
    • If you want normalized identifiers, there is now an InputGesture.normalizedIdentifiers property which normalizes the identifiers returned by the identifiers property .
  • The InputGesture.logIdentifier property is now deprecated. Callers should use InputGesture.identifiers[0] instead. (#6945)
  • Removed some deprecated code:
    • `speech.REASON_*` constants: `controlTypes.REASON_*` should be used instead. (#6846)
    • `i18nName` for synth settings: `displayName` and `displayNameWithAccelerator` should be used instead. (#6846#5185)
    • `config.validateConfig`. (#6846#667)
    • `config.save`: `config.conf.save` should be used instead. (#6846#667)
  • The list of completions in the autocomplete context menu of the Python Console no longer shows any object path leading up to the final symbol being completed. (#7023)
  • There is now a unit testing framework for NVDA. (#7026)
    • Unit tests and infrastructure are located in the tests/unit directory. See the docstring in the tests\unit\init.py file for details.
    • You can run tests using "scons tests". See the "Running Tests" section of readme.md for details.
    • If you are submitting a pull request for NVDA, you should first run the tests and ensure they pass.
Kind regards

Quentin.
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


NVDA tutorials posted to Accessibilitycentral.net

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi guys

It is Gene NZ (who is putting together the AccessibilityCentral.net
website). It is a blindness related website where I also post both
written and audio tutorials for the NVDA screen reader, along with other
blindness related material.

These are fairly easy to follow, (that is they are step by step
instructions) and for a desktop computer.
They are basically, to get a new user of NVDA up and running.

At present, any that are written are identified under a heading on the
main AccessibilityCentral.net homepage of the website. The heading is
called pages recently updated, and they are listed below this heading or
put onto my AccessibilityCentral.net Facebook page.

Recently updated: How to show or hide columns in your Mozilla
Thunderbird email header (changes made)
http://accessibilitycentral.net/accessible%20email%20client%20mozilla%20thunderbird.html


New: Added new page called Migrating to NVDA from another screen reader
for both a desktop and laptop user (new link added to all NVDA related
pages
http://accessibilitycentral.net/Migrating%20from%20other%20screen%20readers%20to%20the%20NVDA%20screen%20reader.html).


I will add more tutorials to this thread as they are written up.

Gene NZ

--
Check out my website for nvda tutorials and other blindness related
material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net. Regardless of where you
are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a
copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out
which locations or location is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries |
Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa -


Re: NVDA add-on for bme2, Re: [nvda] Accessible music notation software

Simone Dal Maso
 

There is a copy of BME addon in the italian website.
I can't know if it works with latest version of NVDA, anyway you can find it here:
http://www.nvda.it/braille-music-editor-2

also if italian, you can search the download link that is:
bme2nvdasupport.nvda-addon

Best regards.

Il 30/05/2017 12:05, Jorge Gonçalves ha scritto:
Write me privately and I give it to you!:
My address is:
jorge@jgpiano.com
Cheers
Às 22:56 de 28/05/2017, John Sanfilippo escreveu:
Hello,

I am very interested in the NVDA add-on for BME2. Where can it be gotten?

John S



On 5/28/17 15:31, Jorge Gonçalves wrote:
Hello:


You also have Braille Music Editor 2

http://www.veia.it/en/bme2_product


For this software there is a Add-on for Nvda which makes it perfectly
usable with our screen reader.

Cheers,

Jorge



Às 00:26 de 28/05/2017, John Sanfilippo escreveu:
Hi,

You might try these:

1, www.lilypond.org: This is open source software which runs on many
platforms. It is text based, so you learn a text coding which is
interpreted by lilypond, and output as PDF and MIDI files. You print the
pdf and optionally listen to the midi file.

2, www.Musescore.org is an open source scoring program like Sibelius or
Finale. Scores are written on screen using keyboard and mouse. They are
aware of accessibility, but they say that the program is right now more
suitable for reading scores than writing them for visually impaired.

Now, if you have some funds there are two other scoring programs:

3, Sibelius which has Jaws and some NVDA support.
More info is here:
http://www.raisedbar.co.uk/Sibelius/SibeliusAccessV5.htm

4, www.dancingdots.com develops a program called Goodfeel. For this you
must run Jaws. I know of no NVDA support, though that may be
forthcoming. This is a suite of programs which includes SharpEye, a
music OCR program for scanning printed music, Lime, a print music
scoring program made accessible by Jaws scripts called LimeAloud, and
Goodfeel, a braille music transcribing software which converts Lime
scores into braille music.

Hope this helps some.

John S



On 5/27/17 15:45, brandon wrote:
Greetings list,

I am planning on starting my journey on becomming a music major in
the fall of this year.
I was wondering if there are any accessible programs that can help me
in music notation.
Especially ones that can display music notation in the standard print
way.
Also if there are any tips and tricks of the trade that can help
those would be appreciated.
Kind regards,
Brandon



Re: NVDA add-on for bme2, Re: [nvda] Accessible music notation software

Jorge Gonçalves <joport3@...>
 

Write me privately and I give it to you!:

My address is:

jorge@jgpiano.com


Cheers


Às 22:56 de 28/05/2017, John Sanfilippo escreveu:

Hello,

I am very interested in the NVDA add-on for BME2. Where can it be gotten?

John S



On 5/28/17 15:31, Jorge Gonçalves wrote:
Hello:


You also have Braille Music Editor 2

http://www.veia.it/en/bme2_product


For this software there is a Add-on for Nvda which makes it perfectly
usable with our screen reader.

Cheers,

Jorge



Às 00:26 de 28/05/2017, John Sanfilippo escreveu:
Hi,

You might try these:

1, www.lilypond.org: This is open source software which runs on many
platforms. It is text based, so you learn a text coding which is
interpreted by lilypond, and output as PDF and MIDI files. You print the
pdf and optionally listen to the midi file.

2, www.Musescore.org is an open source scoring program like Sibelius or
Finale. Scores are written on screen using keyboard and mouse. They are
aware of accessibility, but they say that the program is right now more
suitable for reading scores than writing them for visually impaired.

Now, if you have some funds there are two other scoring programs:

3, Sibelius which has Jaws and some NVDA support.
More info is here:
http://www.raisedbar.co.uk/Sibelius/SibeliusAccessV5.htm

4, www.dancingdots.com develops a program called Goodfeel. For this you
must run Jaws. I know of no NVDA support, though that may be
forthcoming. This is a suite of programs which includes SharpEye, a
music OCR program for scanning printed music, Lime, a print music
scoring program made accessible by Jaws scripts called LimeAloud, and
Goodfeel, a braille music transcribing software which converts Lime
scores into braille music.

Hope this helps some.

John S



On 5/27/17 15:45, brandon wrote:
Greetings list,

I am planning on starting my journey on becomming a music major in
the fall of this year.
I was wondering if there are any accessible programs that can help me
in music notation.
Especially ones that can display music notation in the standard print
way.
Also if there are any tips and tricks of the trade that can help
those would be appreciated.
Kind regards,
Brandon



Re: NVDA and speech of toggle keys.

Dennis L
 

It should be implamented. Let the user decide what keys speak and don't.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 8:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and speech of toggle keys.

Yes, related with this topic and to the topic of people changing from other screen readers to NVDA!

It is one of NVDA's most criticized failures!

Rui


Rui


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Quentin Christensen
Data: 30 de maio de 2017 00:31
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] NVDA and speech of toggle keys.


I think this is an issue related to the conversation?

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6553

Regards

Quentin.


On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 5:53 AM, Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com>
wrote:
NV Access team and Joseph, this is another thing we have to think...

We have discussed this issue some time ago in devellopers list, and, I
think, we have arrived to an almost agreement that this type of keys should
be voiced by NVDA, but not arrows...

Regards,

Rui Fontes


-----Mensagem Original----- De: andy.tidwell
Data: 29 de maio de 2017 19:46
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: [nvda] NVDA and speech of toggle keys.


Hello everyone I have a question about speech on the toggle keys. I went in
to the NVDA menu and enabled speech on toggle keys because I
wanted to hear when I pressed the tab and escape and function keys but now I
also hear speech when I press the arrow keys, is there any way I
can stop speech on the arrow keys and still have NVDA announce the other
keys? any help will be appreciated.Jesus dyed for us, why can't we live for
him?










--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/


Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Gene
 

Then I hope whoever did will not do so in future except when the subject has changed to the point where the subject line no longer applies.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

No I didn’t change the subject this is what it was.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

Such events cause rumor and speculation to spread throughout the blind computer using community.  You may not be susceptible to such rumors but a lot of people give serious attention to such rumors and speculation. 

 

I am now speaking as a moderator.  My previous comments were as a member, not a moderator.

I haven't followed the subject line carefully for this thread.  Did you change it and add the phrase fear mongering?  If you want to characterize it, please don't change the subject line to do so.  Characterize it in the message body.  Subject lines should not be changed unless a subject departs from the original to the extent that it has no meaningful relation to the original subject.  This is still a discussion of the original subject.  If you change subject lines, it creates a new branch in the archives.  It also causes all those who read mail by conversation to see an entirely new conversation where none exists. 

 

Now speaking as a member again, fear mongering is not an accurate characterization of the message. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:03 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

My point is that is was so unlikely to happen people shouldn’t be worried about it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750





Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Gene
 

One way to promote NVDA is to reassure people that it is worth taking time to learn.  Someone who is worried about the future of NVDA will be less likely to be motivated to do so.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:07 AM
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

I think what people need to do is promote Joseph Lee’s project lense and spread the word about NVDA.  Promote the strengths and show people where it can be used and if there is something you need there are people that might write add-ons they might charge but your program or application could be made to work with NVDA.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750






Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Dennis L
 

No I didn’t change the subject this is what it was.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

Such events cause rumor and speculation to spread throughout the blind computer using community.  You may not be susceptible to such rumors but a lot of people give serious attention to such rumors and speculation. 

 

I am now speaking as a moderator.  My previous comments were as a member, not a moderator.

I haven't followed the subject line carefully for this thread.  Did you change it and add the phrase fear mongering?  If you want to characterize it, please don't change the subject line to do so.  Characterize it in the message body.  Subject lines should not be changed unless a subject departs from the original to the extent that it has no meaningful relation to the original subject.  This is still a discussion of the original subject.  If you change subject lines, it creates a new branch in the archives.  It also causes all those who read mail by conversation to see an entirely new conversation where none exists. 

 

Now speaking as a member again, fear mongering is not an accurate characterization of the message. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:03 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

My point is that is was so unlikely to happen people shouldn’t be worried about it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750





Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Gene
 

Such events cause rumor and speculation to spread throughout the blind computer using community.  You may not be susceptible to such rumors but a lot of people give serious attention to such rumors and speculation. 
 
I am now speaking as a moderator.  My previous comments were as a member, not a moderator.
I haven't followed the subject line carefully for this thread.  Did you change it and add the phrase fear mongering?  If you want to characterize it, please don't change the subject line to do so.  Characterize it in the message body.  Subject lines should not be changed unless a subject departs from the original to the extent that it has no meaningful relation to the original subject.  This is still a discussion of the original subject.  If you change subject lines, it creates a new branch in the archives.  It also causes all those who read mail by conversation to see an entirely new conversation where none exists. 
 
Now speaking as a member again, fear mongering is not an accurate characterization of the message. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

My point is that is was so unlikely to happen people shouldn’t be worried about it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750






Re: 2017.2

Георги Ламбов <obichamlegiona@...>
 

   Hi!

I think nothing awfully is happened. NvdA works perfectly and all's OK!

Georgi


На 30.5.2017 г. в 02:24 ч., Quentin Christensen написа:

Sorry folks, Mick and Jamie were working later than me last night, I had to go out to a prior engagement.  But yes, NVDA 2017.2 is officially out.  As Dennis guessed, no changes from the rc1 version that came out last week.  I'll send out a fresh message to the list in a minute.

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 5:03 AM, Георги Ламбов <obichamlegiona@...> wrote:
   Hi!

I also updated to the latest NvdA-version from the help menu, reading your letter. By the way it happened no strange thing, so, I'm quiet. Yes, by the way I also waited for an official announcement but so is good too.

best wishes
Georgi
На 29.5.2017 г. в 18:39 ч., David Mehler написа:
Hello,

I didn't see any announcement about 2017.2 being out, but my machine
just updated to 2017.2. Is this correct? Can I get some clarification?

Thanks.
Dave.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Dennis L
 

I think what people need to do is promote Joseph Lee’s project lense and spread the word about NVDA.  Promote the strengths and show people where it can be used and if there is something you need there are people that might write add-ons they might charge but your program or application could be made to work with NVDA.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750






Re: objPad addon suggestion

Gene
 

How do you know the functions couldn't be done in the core?  I have no idea if they can be or if it would be more efficient to put such functions in the core.  Even if they are placed in an add on, they should be migrated into the core. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:53 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] objPad addon suggestion

Its getting to the point where add ons that add functions, could themselves
need  or spawn add ons as some things become possible that are not so in the
nvda core.
 Hooking certain objects and doing stuff with them seems to be getting more
needed of late.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] objPad addon suggestion


Hi,
In the past, I would have said "yes", but in order to instill a culture of
thinking, I'd like to ask you to think carefully about the scope of the
add-on. Is ObjPad purely a navigational add-on or does it do something else?
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Josh
Kennedy
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 1:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] objPad addon suggestion

I have a suggestion for objPad. Could you add a dialog box that will let you
1. monitor certain objects for changes and speak those changes. 2.
If certain objects appear you could silence those objects from speaking any
changes and save them on an app by app basis. 3. if an object is unknown go
into a dialog and change its roll or change the kind of object NVDA thinks
that it is. 4. rename or re-label any object, give it your own name or label
it based on its tooltip. 5. monitor parts of objects for changes, speak
those changes when triggered by various things happening like a key press,
color change, font change, text style change, so on. Assign different tts
voices for different objects different pitches and rates of speech. example,
all graphic objects may have a higher pitch or may speak slower or faster or
use a different voice or different variant. settings could be saved and
shared with other NVDA users. Also someday down the road, incorporate objPad
into NVDA core itself so its a standard part of NVDA.