Date   

Re: A question about non destructive errors

Quentin Christensen
 

What were you doing when you pressed down arrow (It looks like pressing down arrow has triggered it)?

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Sam Bushman <libertyroundtable@...> wrote:

I get the following errors:

 

ERROR - scriptHandler.executeScript (13:30:32.572):

error executing script: <bound method MSHTML.script_moveByLine_forward of <virtualBuffers.MSHTML.MSHTML object at 0x04EA1270>> with gesture u'down arrow'

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "scriptHandler.pyc", line 187, in executeScript

  File "cursorManager.pyc", line 209, in script_moveByLine_forward

  File "cursorManager.pyc", line 139, in _caretMovementScriptHelper

  File "browseMode.pyc", line 1150, in _set_selection

  File "browseMode.pyc", line 1165, in _shouldSetFocusToObj

  File "baseObject.pyc", line 34, in __get__

  File "baseObject.pyc", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache

  File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\MSHTML.pyc", line 925, in _get_isFocusable

  File "comtypes\client\lazybind.pyc", line 207, in __call__

  File "comtypes\automation.pyc", line 664, in _invoke

COMError: (-2147352319, None, (None, None, None, 0, None))

ERROR - RPC process 4468 (nvda_slave.exe) (13:44:26.766):

__main__.main:

slave error

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "nvda_slave.pyw", line 90, in main

  File "comHelper.pyc", line 22, in _lresultFromGetActiveObject

  File "comtypes\client\__init__.pyc", line 180, in GetActiveObject

  File "comtypes\__init__.pyc", line 1165, in GetActiveObject

  File "_ctypes/callproc.c", line 950, in GetResult

WindowsError: [Error -2147221021] Operation unavailable

ERROR - scriptHandler.executeScript (13:45:32.332):

error executing script: <bound method MSHTML.script_moveByLine_forward of <virtualBuffers.MSHTML.MSHTML object at 0x0507CF50>> with gesture u'down arrow'

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "scriptHandler.pyc", line 187, in executeScript

  File "cursorManager.pyc", line 209, in script_moveByLine_forward

  File "cursorManager.pyc", line 139, in _caretMovementScriptHelper

  File "browseMode.pyc", line 1150, in _set_selection

  File "browseMode.pyc", line 1165, in _shouldSetFocusToObj

  File "baseObject.pyc", line 34, in __get__

  File "baseObject.pyc", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache

  File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\MSHTML.pyc", line 925, in _get_isFocusable

  File "comtypes\client\lazybind.pyc", line 207, in __call__

  File "comtypes\automation.pyc", line 664, in _invoke

COMError: (-2147352319, None, (None, None, None, 0, None))

ERROR - scriptHandler.executeScript (14:02:51.563):

error executing script: <bound method MSHTML.script_moveByLine_forward of <virtualBuffers.MSHTML.MSHTML object at 0x0513E7F0>> with gesture u'down arrow'

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "scriptHandler.pyc", line 187, in executeScript

  File "cursorManager.pyc", line 209, in script_moveByLine_forward

  File "cursorManager.pyc", line 139, in _caretMovementScriptHelper

  File "browseMode.pyc", line 1150, in _set_selection

  File "browseMode.pyc", line 1165, in _shouldSetFocusToObj

  File "baseObject.pyc", line 34, in __get__

  File "baseObject.pyc", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache

  File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\MSHTML.pyc", line 925, in _get_isFocusable

  File "comtypes\client\lazybind.pyc", line 207, in __call__

  File "comtypes\automation.pyc", line 664, in _invoke

 

 

Any Way I can help resolve?

 

Thanks,

Sam

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 5:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io


Subject: Re: [nvda] A question about non destructive errors

 

Oh it's definitely worth raising any situations that cause an error.  Errors which also have a negative effect for the end-user will be given a higher priority to fix obviously, especially since error tones aren't generated for the stable releases.

 

Regards


Quentin.

 

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 5:17 PM, Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...> wrote:

Hmm, I'm sure they know about this error condition, but I'm always a little sceptical  when I see errors that in the end it might be a problem that could cause issues if you don't trap it somehow.



Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question about non destructive errors



Hi Brian,

Without being specifically familiar with this particular code, a couple of
points off the top of my head:

- Often different programs (and sometimes even the same program) will have
controls which may look and behaves exactly the same to the end user, but
underneath they work differently.  This can be why some controls throw up
errors when others do not.
- Partly for the same reason, if we try and find out information a certain
way and it fails, there may be another (backup, if you like) way that we
can try which may get the same information.  In that case, the control may
throw up an error, but appear to work as normal.
- My lack of familiarity with the code will show here, but the error about
CoInitialize not being called is likely because it would be usual to
initialize that prior to making a certain request.  For whatever reason
that wasn't done, which may in some situations mean that the value returned
by that request may be unexpected.  Whether that's a problem or not I'd
need Mick or Jamie to answer, but all that might give you a bit of an idea
to start with.  Again, that's all just general off the top of my head and
without being specifically familiar with the code.

Regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 11:28 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

As quite a lot of us do use snapshot builds we do hear errors from time to
time. one of the most annoying ones I see in windows 7 is when some of the
search fields are used. There can be multiple errors as one types in and
even when the edit area is opened, yet to all  intents and purposes it
seems like the control itself has worked.
Here is a log to demonstrate what I mean.

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (14:18:51.645):
Input: kb(desktop):shift+tab
IO - speech.speak (14:18:51.730):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Search Box  edit   Search Windows
(C:)']
DEBUG - NVDAObjects.UIA.UIATextInfo._getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
(14:18:51.732):
_getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
DEBUG - NVDAObjects.UIA.UIATextInfo._getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
(14:18:51.733):
rootElement: edit
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.733):
error executing event: gainFocus on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\easyTableNavigat
or\globalPlugins\easyTableNavigator.py", line 82, in event_gainFocus
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\focusHighlight\
globalPlugins\focusHighlight.py", line 427, in event_gainFocus
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "appModules\explorer.pyc", line 280, in event_gainFocus
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 907, in event_gainFocus
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 819, in reportFocus
 File "speech.pyc", line 367, in speakObject
 File "speech.pyc", line 689, in speakTextInfo
 File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 584, in getTextWithFields
 File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 444, in
_getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None, None,
None, 0, None))
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.740):
error executing event: caret on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 940, in event_caret
 File "review.pyc", line 167, in handleCaretMove
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 973, in makeTextInfo
 File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 244, in __init__
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None, None,
None, 0, None))
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.752):
error executing event: caret on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 940, in event_caret
 File "review.pyc", line 167, in handleCaretMove
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 973, in makeTextInfo
 File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 244, in __init__
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None, None,
None, 0, None))


This is in the master branch and has been around for quite some time now
but of course one does not hear it on the final builds.
Also quit why it refers to two add-ons which would seem to have nothing to
do with it is a mystery as well.
Just wondered why this c_inisialise or whatever is not called and why it
seems that some edit areas work while others do not.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: A question about non destructive errors

Sam Bushman
 

I get the following errors:

 

ERROR - scriptHandler.executeScript (13:30:32.572):

error executing script: <bound method MSHTML.script_moveByLine_forward of <virtualBuffers.MSHTML.MSHTML object at 0x04EA1270>> with gesture u'down arrow'

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "scriptHandler.pyc", line 187, in executeScript

  File "cursorManager.pyc", line 209, in script_moveByLine_forward

  File "cursorManager.pyc", line 139, in _caretMovementScriptHelper

  File "browseMode.pyc", line 1150, in _set_selection

  File "browseMode.pyc", line 1165, in _shouldSetFocusToObj

  File "baseObject.pyc", line 34, in __get__

  File "baseObject.pyc", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache

  File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\MSHTML.pyc", line 925, in _get_isFocusable

  File "comtypes\client\lazybind.pyc", line 207, in __call__

  File "comtypes\automation.pyc", line 664, in _invoke

COMError: (-2147352319, None, (None, None, None, 0, None))

ERROR - RPC process 4468 (nvda_slave.exe) (13:44:26.766):

__main__.main:

slave error

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "nvda_slave.pyw", line 90, in main

  File "comHelper.pyc", line 22, in _lresultFromGetActiveObject

  File "comtypes\client\__init__.pyc", line 180, in GetActiveObject

  File "comtypes\__init__.pyc", line 1165, in GetActiveObject

  File "_ctypes/callproc.c", line 950, in GetResult

WindowsError: [Error -2147221021] Operation unavailable

ERROR - scriptHandler.executeScript (13:45:32.332):

error executing script: <bound method MSHTML.script_moveByLine_forward of <virtualBuffers.MSHTML.MSHTML object at 0x0507CF50>> with gesture u'down arrow'

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "scriptHandler.pyc", line 187, in executeScript

  File "cursorManager.pyc", line 209, in script_moveByLine_forward

  File "cursorManager.pyc", line 139, in _caretMovementScriptHelper

  File "browseMode.pyc", line 1150, in _set_selection

  File "browseMode.pyc", line 1165, in _shouldSetFocusToObj

  File "baseObject.pyc", line 34, in __get__

  File "baseObject.pyc", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache

  File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\MSHTML.pyc", line 925, in _get_isFocusable

  File "comtypes\client\lazybind.pyc", line 207, in __call__

  File "comtypes\automation.pyc", line 664, in _invoke

COMError: (-2147352319, None, (None, None, None, 0, None))

ERROR - scriptHandler.executeScript (14:02:51.563):

error executing script: <bound method MSHTML.script_moveByLine_forward of <virtualBuffers.MSHTML.MSHTML object at 0x0513E7F0>> with gesture u'down arrow'

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "scriptHandler.pyc", line 187, in executeScript

  File "cursorManager.pyc", line 209, in script_moveByLine_forward

  File "cursorManager.pyc", line 139, in _caretMovementScriptHelper

  File "browseMode.pyc", line 1150, in _set_selection

  File "browseMode.pyc", line 1165, in _shouldSetFocusToObj

  File "baseObject.pyc", line 34, in __get__

  File "baseObject.pyc", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache

  File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\MSHTML.pyc", line 925, in _get_isFocusable

  File "comtypes\client\lazybind.pyc", line 207, in __call__

  File "comtypes\automation.pyc", line 664, in _invoke

 

 

Any Way I can help resolve?

 

Thanks,

Sam

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 5:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question about non destructive errors

 

Oh it's definitely worth raising any situations that cause an error.  Errors which also have a negative effect for the end-user will be given a higher priority to fix obviously, especially since error tones aren't generated for the stable releases.

 

Regards


Quentin.

 

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 5:17 PM, Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...> wrote:

Hmm, I'm sure they know about this error condition, but I'm always a little sceptical  when I see errors that in the end it might be a problem that could cause issues if you don't trap it somehow.



Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question about non destructive errors



Hi Brian,

Without being specifically familiar with this particular code, a couple of
points off the top of my head:

- Often different programs (and sometimes even the same program) will have
controls which may look and behaves exactly the same to the end user, but
underneath they work differently.  This can be why some controls throw up
errors when others do not.
- Partly for the same reason, if we try and find out information a certain
way and it fails, there may be another (backup, if you like) way that we
can try which may get the same information.  In that case, the control may
throw up an error, but appear to work as normal.
- My lack of familiarity with the code will show here, but the error about
CoInitialize not being called is likely because it would be usual to
initialize that prior to making a certain request.  For whatever reason
that wasn't done, which may in some situations mean that the value returned
by that request may be unexpected.  Whether that's a problem or not I'd
need Mick or Jamie to answer, but all that might give you a bit of an idea
to start with.  Again, that's all just general off the top of my head and
without being specifically familiar with the code.

Regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 11:28 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

As quite a lot of us do use snapshot builds we do hear errors from time to
time. one of the most annoying ones I see in windows 7 is when some of the
search fields are used. There can be multiple errors as one types in and
even when the edit area is opened, yet to all  intents and purposes it
seems like the control itself has worked.
Here is a log to demonstrate what I mean.

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (14:18:51.645):
Input: kb(desktop):shift+tab
IO - speech.speak (14:18:51.730):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Search Box  edit   Search Windows
(C:)']
DEBUG - NVDAObjects.UIA.UIATextInfo._getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
(14:18:51.732):
_getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
DEBUG - NVDAObjects.UIA.UIATextInfo._getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
(14:18:51.733):
rootElement: edit
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.733):
error executing event: gainFocus on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\easyTableNavigat
or\globalPlugins\easyTableNavigator.py", line 82, in event_gainFocus
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\focusHighlight\
globalPlugins\focusHighlight.py", line 427, in event_gainFocus
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "appModules\explorer.pyc", line 280, in event_gainFocus
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 907, in event_gainFocus
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 819, in reportFocus
 File "speech.pyc", line 367, in speakObject
 File "speech.pyc", line 689, in speakTextInfo
 File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 584, in getTextWithFields
 File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 444, in
_getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None, None,
None, 0, None))
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.740):
error executing event: caret on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 940, in event_caret
 File "review.pyc", line 167, in handleCaretMove
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 973, in makeTextInfo
 File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 244, in __init__
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None, None,
None, 0, None))
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.752):
error executing event: caret on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 940, in event_caret
 File "review.pyc", line 167, in handleCaretMove
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 973, in makeTextInfo
 File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 244, in __init__
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None, None,
None, 0, None))


This is in the master branch and has been around for quite some time now
but of course one does not hear it on the final builds.
Also quit why it refers to two add-ons which would seem to have nothing to
do with it is a mystery as well.
Just wondered why this c_inisialise or whatever is not called and why it
seems that some edit areas work while others do not.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: A question about non destructive errors

Quentin Christensen
 

Oh it's definitely worth raising any situations that cause an error.  Errors which also have a negative effect for the end-user will be given a higher priority to fix obviously, especially since error tones aren't generated for the stable releases.

Regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 5:17 PM, Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...> wrote:
Hmm, I'm sure they know about this error condition, but I'm always a little sceptical  when I see errors that in the end it might be a problem that could cause issues if you don't trap it somehow.



Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question about non destructive errors



Hi Brian,

Without being specifically familiar with this particular code, a couple of
points off the top of my head:

- Often different programs (and sometimes even the same program) will have
controls which may look and behaves exactly the same to the end user, but
underneath they work differently.  This can be why some controls throw up
errors when others do not.
- Partly for the same reason, if we try and find out information a certain
way and it fails, there may be another (backup, if you like) way that we
can try which may get the same information.  In that case, the control may
throw up an error, but appear to work as normal.
- My lack of familiarity with the code will show here, but the error about
CoInitialize not being called is likely because it would be usual to
initialize that prior to making a certain request.  For whatever reason
that wasn't done, which may in some situations mean that the value returned
by that request may be unexpected.  Whether that's a problem or not I'd
need Mick or Jamie to answer, but all that might give you a bit of an idea
to start with.  Again, that's all just general off the top of my head and
without being specifically familiar with the code.

Regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 11:28 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

As quite a lot of us do use snapshot builds we do hear errors from time to
time. one of the most annoying ones I see in windows 7 is when some of the
search fields are used. There can be multiple errors as one types in and
even when the edit area is opened, yet to all  intents and purposes it
seems like the control itself has worked.
Here is a log to demonstrate what I mean.

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (14:18:51.645):
Input: kb(desktop):shift+tab
IO - speech.speak (14:18:51.730):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Search Box  edit   Search Windows
(C:)']
DEBUG - NVDAObjects.UIA.UIATextInfo._getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
(14:18:51.732):
_getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
DEBUG - NVDAObjects.UIA.UIATextInfo._getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
(14:18:51.733):
rootElement: edit
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.733):
error executing event: gainFocus on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\easyTableNavigat
or\globalPlugins\easyTableNavigator.py", line 82, in event_gainFocus
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\focusHighlight\
globalPlugins\focusHighlight.py", line 427, in event_gainFocus
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "appModules\explorer.pyc", line 280, in event_gainFocus
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 907, in event_gainFocus
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 819, in reportFocus
 File "speech.pyc", line 367, in speakObject
 File "speech.pyc", line 689, in speakTextInfo
 File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 584, in getTextWithFields
 File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 444, in
_getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None, None,
None, 0, None))
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.740):
error executing event: caret on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 940, in event_caret
 File "review.pyc", line 167, in handleCaretMove
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 973, in makeTextInfo
 File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 244, in __init__
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None, None,
None, 0, None))
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.752):
error executing event: caret on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
 File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 940, in event_caret
 File "review.pyc", line 167, in handleCaretMove
 File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 973, in makeTextInfo
 File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 244, in __init__
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None, None,
None, 0, None))


This is in the master branch and has been around for quite some time now
but of course one does not hear it on the final builds.
Also quit why it refers to two add-ons which would seem to have nothing to
do with it is a mystery as well.
Just wondered why this c_inisialise or whatever is not called and why it
seems that some edit areas work while others do not.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Robin Frost
 

Hi,
Perhaps I’m fool hearty to even try but in the interest of clarity I’ll attempt to address Gene’s assessment of my post as that’s what I believe is being referenced below.
Firstly I am by no means a fan girl type of person of any particular operating system, screen reader or device. I’ll use that which does any task the best at any given time. That is why I made reference to the fact that others often can and do pick devices operating systems and all manner of things based on any number of reasons I just didn’t want to think that people might do so out of fear based upon things that might not afflict them. I also indicated that my experience was different that others as I did not upgrade but rather was forced by circumstances to purchase a new machine thus my Windows 10 install was a clean one from a manufacturer.
I acknowledge that Windows is by no means perfect but I don’t expect it to be so as nothing is. I do however, agree that users just want a machine that works and does that which they need it to do daily; and I also agree that in an optimal world an operating system manufacturer should make sure that it works with as many screen readers and other variables as possible and I agree that saying it works well with Narrator doesn’t qualify as such.
However, it is also my understanding that to at least some degree screen reader manufacturers often do dialog with Microsoft behind the scenes and participate in running insider builds in an effort to address accessibility issues before they role out. if I am incorrect on this point I’m sure someone will further enlighten us all.
 
And for the record I have experienced Microsoft updates causing issues with drivers and peripherals from time to time but when I did it was nothing that couldn’t be solved by either a call to Microsoft’s disability help desk or my pc’s own manufacturer as recently as the last 2 weeks.
 
Again in summation I would never presume to make any sort of grand pronouncement on that which anyone would or should do I was merely trying to balance that which had been stated with another view. And with that I’ll now post this with the fragile fleeting hope that this might clarify that which I had tried to say and perhaps did so unsuccessfully.
Robin
 
 

From: Gene
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...
 
I evidently respondedd to a message that didn't include the comments I was responding to.  As far as I know, it was in this thread that someone said that their Windows 10 has worked well and that they object to the characterizations of some users that it doesn't in general.  I'm not completely paraphrasing the message correctly, I evidently no longer have it but that gives readers following the thread enough information to know what message I was commenting on.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 2:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...
 
This message is long; you may want to read it now or when you have more time, if you are busy now.
 
You have stated how you found Windows on one machine.  It isn't a fact in general.  it is a fact regarding your personal experience.  It is my impression that a lot of people have found Windows 10 to be reliable.  But, in the case of blind users, many continually have problems with Microsoft making changes to universal apps that degrades accessibility in those apps.  Do you use universal apps such as the mail app or do you use Windows 10 to run traditional programs? 
 
Just yesterday, on the NVDA users list, there was discussion of how the e-mail app had serious problems after Microsoft updated it in terms of accessibility.  the problems could be corrected by using the latest version of the add on for NVDA that is released by NVDA, largely to deal with the unending problems Microsoft causes by not testing its apps properly for accessibility.  I believe it was on this list yesterday or the day before that I asked about Microsoft testing its universal apps.  An NVDA developer said that Microsoft tests them using Narrator.  That's not anything remotely resembling proper testing. 
 
My point is that your experience is very conditional.  If you had driver problems and forced driver updates kept undoing the changes you made to cause your system to work properly, you wouldn't have as good an experience as you report.  If you used universal apps, your experience would be a cat and mouse game depending on how well and how quickly your screen-reader delt with the changes Microsoft made to these apps after releasing them with completely inadequate testing.  And there is a basic principle that a machine owner has the right to control what is done to his/her machine.  Microsoft, in not allowing updates to be controled as in previous versions of Windows is, in effect, asserting the right to control your, not their, machine.  They license Windows to you, they don't license your machine to you.
 
Microsoft gave Windows 10 away for free to meet their financial goals to monitize Windows, not the users best interests.  I am very glad that I didn't fall for Microsoft's snake oil.  My Windows 7 machine works well and I can do everything I want to with it.  I control my machine, not Microsoft.  I will not upgrade my well working, reliable Windows 7 machine to Windows 10.  When I buy a new computer, it will have Windows 10 on it.  I won't upgrade to Windows 10 just because Microsoft does everything it can to entice me to do so for their advantage, not mine. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Monday, June 19, 2017 9:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a
reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

I echo the same sentiment as Brian.  The Win10 anniversary already caused me
to buy another laptop I did not need as I was leaving on an overseas trip
and my laptop was totally messed up after the update.  I am honestly about
to switch to a Mac as the Win environment is not reliable.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Austin
Pinto
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a
reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

oh! when you said explode i thought it would sound much worced but.
its a nice directive

On 6/19/17, Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...> wrote:
> Joseph, though I do understand where you are coming from and the
> frustration
>
> you feel, I do honestly have sympathy with the end user who just wants
> a reliable system.
> Microsoft have to shoulder a good deal of the blame for what their
> changes cause. I'm not suggesting in any way that they are
> deliberately  screwing things up here, just that they  really do not
> test stuff enough. For people
>
> who do not use special builds of windows, ie insiders, or nvda. I do
> not think it unreasonable to expect continuity and after a while
> people do get fed up with having the rug pulled from under them on a
> regular basis by software makers, be that Microsoft or anyone else.
>  So yes, in a development environment you would be justified in being
> annoyed, but when people are trying to run their lives day to day and
> keep encountering stones in the road and potholes not of their own
> making  it is,
>
> I think understandable if people get fed up and take the easy option.
>  I have I know said much of this before, but like most of us, I have
> had to
>
> try to help people in real life away from this place and been almost
> embarrassed when you eventually track down the issue to the actual
> changes in the software and nothing to do with the end user, except
> that he or she happens to be blind.
>
> I'll shut up now and  be quiet, bite my lip etc for a while. I nearly
> bought
>
> a new laptop last week but after reading about all the win 10 issues
> decided
>
> not to bother.
>  Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:22 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a
> reason
>
> why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...
>
>
>> Dear NVDA community,
>>
>>
>>
>> Disclaimer: for new community members, I'm normally not like this,
>> but I do sometimes right posts I believe folks should hear, as it
>> impacts community experience and what not. So my sincere apologies
>> for letting you witness my explosive side. Please bear with me for a
>> second, as it is important that
>>
>> I
>> talk about the following regarding respecting engineers and announce
>> a directive for Windows 10 users:
>>
>>
>>
>> In the blindness community (at least for members of various mailing
>> lists that I'm a part of or lead), I became synonymous with someone
>> who is willing to show patience until the end, especially when
>> resolving tech support problems. But there is a hidden side to that:
>> for certain things, I become
>>
>> a
>> volcano, and those who've witnessed my lava flow knows what I mean.
>> Unfortunately, I believe it is time that I explode yet again (my
>> apologies to our dear leaders for doing something like this):
>>
>>
>>
>> Answering questions: for many situations, when resolving issues, when
>> I and other engineers ask you questions in hopes of getting to the
>> meat of the burger. Sometimes we may ask you to tell us steps to
>> reproduce the given problem, what a screen reader says, and what not.
>> When developers ask you questions, please do your best to answer them
>> if possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> For Windows 10 users: there is an important reason why I wrote
>> Windows 10 App Essentials: to prevent issues like the one Rosemarie
>> and others have experienced with Mail app. Hence the following directive:
>>
>>
>>
>> Until now, it was optional for you to use Windows 10 app Essentials
>> add-on if you are using Windows 10. I'll make this an important
>> requirement starting from fall 2017. That is, starting from September
>> 2017, when you report issues like the one Rosemarie has experienced,
>> I'll no longer ask you to install latest WinTenApps add-on: I'll
>> assume that you have. For Windows Insiders, this is a critical (and
>> mandatory) requirement.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not announcing this directive just because I feel like doing it,
>> nor to increase popularity of my brainchild: Windows 10 App
>> Essentials add-on exists for important reasons:
>>
>>
>>
>> * Workarounds for issues encountered by NVDA users when using Windows
>> 10, including various UI Automation issues.
>> * Respond to changes in accessibility of various apps such as
>> removing workarounds put in place in past versions.
>> * Respond to app executable name changes (Microsoft has changed names
>> of at least three universal app executables).
>> * Provide essential features for Windows 10 users, including
>> suggestions announcement, emoji panel support (Fall Creators Update),
>> Edge notification announcements and others.
>> * To prove to Microsoft and third-party universal app developers that
>> accessibility should be a core design criteria for apps, including
>> letting screen reader users use apps to their full potential.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: Clarification: last night's remarks, teaching style

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Well said, Joseph!

 

I agree that learning is only really effective if a person has to think through something that is not exactly as it was presented in the learning situation. Their understanding of the basic problem becomes so much clearer and the ability to resolve the situation becomes so much stronger!

 

Keep up the good work!

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

 

 

 

I use the free version of Spam Reader to get rid of spam. The Professional version doesn't have this disclaimer in outgoing emails. Try Spam Reader for free now!

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 9:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Clarification: last night's remarks, teaching style

 

Dear NVDA community:

 

I have received several remarks offlist regarding my comment to Rosemarie last night in regards to asking her what she has learned through the Mail app problem. I’ll take full responsibility of my remarks and tone, as a practical step, I’ll refrain from posting to this list for the rest of the week (and if I have offended folks, my sincere apologies).

 

As for teaching style I tend to employ: perhaps my remark from last night came as a result of my approach to teaching, which calls for students to have willingness to think, or at least, learn to think critically by asking tough questions, have willingness to fail in hopes of learning important lessons, and learn from mistakes. Perhaps this came as a result of my communication studies and argumentation training, being a member of the competitive speech and debate squad, things I’ve observed on various forums where people just believe whatever leaders say, or something else. My overall intention for asking Rosemarie to tell me what she has learned was to get her to think critically about what she has gone through, not just get a problem fixed. If I say I’m satisfied with the resolution of a problem, then this means no future preparations and applications through careful thinking. I personally believe in a community where not only people offer solutions, but also a venue where members can think critically, and I do know from a decade’s worth of experience on various forums that I’m thinking of an ideal community. One thing I personally would like to see is folks teaching novices not only the beauty of NVDA through solutions, but also fostering a sense of taking ownership of a product and thinking about it; in other words, I think it would be best to prepare willing novices for a time in the future where novices themselves would become power users and teach folks not only NVDA, but also to think carefully. Also, personally, I do not want our NVDA community to just be called “a community of users and developers of NVDA” – one thing that sets our community apart from others is unity, and I think it would be beneficial in the long run to add another title: thinking individuals.

 

Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Clarification: last night's remarks, teaching style

andy.tidwell
 

Hello Joseph, I may be blasted for this but I feel I need to say something here in your behalf.
I for one think you are doing a very good job with the diversity of this list. There are beginners all the way to power
users of NVDA on this list and I think people need to think for themselves and be willing to try new things. I am a
beginner and have questioned a few posts to this list but when I go back and read over them a few times they make
perfect since.
I want to say that if it were not for those like you and the devs. of NVDA there would be no alternatives for people who can’t afford other screen readers.
My hat is off to you and all who make NVDA possible and I for one really thank you for your time and patience.
Thanks for reading this rant.
 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Clarification: last night's remarks, teaching style
 

Dear NVDA community:

 

I have received several remarks offlist regarding my comment to Rosemarie last night in regards to asking her what she has learned through the Mail app problem. I’ll take full responsibility of my remarks and tone, as a practical step, I’ll refrain from posting to this list for the rest of the week (and if I have offended folks, my sincere apologies).

 

As for teaching style I tend to employ: perhaps my remark from last night came as a result of my approach to teaching, which calls for students to have willingness to think, or at least, learn to think critically by asking tough questions, have willingness to fail in hopes of learning important lessons, and learn from mistakes. Perhaps this came as a result of my communication studies and argumentation training, being a member of the competitive speech and debate squad, things I’ve observed on various forums where people just believe whatever leaders say, or something else. My overall intention for asking Rosemarie to tell me what she has learned was to get her to think critically about what she has gone through, not just get a problem fixed. If I say I’m satisfied with the resolution of a problem, then this means no future preparations and applications through careful thinking. I personally believe in a community where not only people offer solutions, but also a venue where members can think critically, and I do know from a decade’s worth of experience on various forums that I’m thinking of an ideal community. One thing I personally would like to see is folks teaching novices not only the beauty of NVDA through solutions, but also fostering a sense of taking ownership of a product and thinking about it; in other words, I think it would be best to prepare willing novices for a time in the future where novices themselves would become power users and teach folks not only NVDA, but also to think carefully. Also, personally, I do not want our NVDA community to just be called “a community of users and developers of NVDA” – one thing that sets our community apart from others is unity, and I think it would be beneficial in the long run to add another title: thinking individuals.

 

Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph

Jesus dyed for us, why can't we live for him?


Re: Clarification: last night's remarks, teaching style

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

Thank you for the clarification.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:57 PM
Subject: [nvda] Clarification: last night's remarks, teaching style

Dear NVDA community:

 

I have received several remarks offlist regarding my comment to Rosemarie last night in regards to asking her what she has learned through the Mail app problem. I’ll take full responsibility of my remarks and tone, as a practical step, I’ll refrain from posting to this list for the rest of the week (and if I have offended folks, my sincere apologies).

 

As for teaching style I tend to employ: perhaps my remark from last night came as a result of my approach to teaching, which calls for students to have willingness to think, or at least, learn to think critically by asking tough questions, have willingness to fail in hopes of learning important lessons, and learn from mistakes. Perhaps this came as a result of my communication studies and argumentation training, being a member of the competitive speech and debate squad, things I’ve observed on various forums where people just believe whatever leaders say, or something else. My overall intention for asking Rosemarie to tell me what she has learned was to get her to think critically about what she has gone through, not just get a problem fixed. If I say I’m satisfied with the resolution of a problem, then this means no future preparations and applications through careful thinking. I personally believe in a community where not only people offer solutions, but also a venue where members can think critically, and I do know from a decade’s worth of experience on various forums that I’m thinking of an ideal community. One thing I personally would like to see is folks teaching novices not only the beauty of NVDA through solutions, but also fostering a sense of taking ownership of a product and thinking about it; in other words, I think it would be best to prepare willing novices for a time in the future where novices themselves would become power users and teach folks not only NVDA, but also to think carefully. Also, personally, I do not want our NVDA community to just be called “a community of users and developers of NVDA” – one thing that sets our community apart from others is unity, and I think it would be beneficial in the long run to add another title: thinking individuals.

 

Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Robin,

I have to say that I agree with you totally!

I am using Windows 10 with NVDA 2017.2, the Eloquence voice and I have absolutely no problems communicating with each of the apps that interest me! I function totally non-visually and rely on NVDA to analyse and communicate what is on the screen. Occasionally I reach into JAWS 17 to see something that I doubt NVDA is telling me correctly. Invariably, I find that JAWS can see less than NVDA can. I know this cannot be universally true but it is true for the range of apps that I am involved with. That is, Microsoft Office 2016, Mozilla Firefox, Ms Outlook 2016 particularly, and a few more.

I am proud of NVDA! I think that some powerful people are involved in developing this tool and have shown how those who experience the non-visual mode of working are best equipped to address it and deliver efficient communicative tools to manage the interface that the screen presents.




All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robin Frost
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 7:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Hi,
Messages like the one below always cause me great concern when I encounter them on lists such as this.
For the record I'd like to say the following in the interest of balance. I like many others had my baptism by fire as it were emersion into Windows necessitated by the death of my Windows 7 machine. And I would like to proclaim that my experience while involving a slight learning curve as moving to a new operating system version often does was relatively painless and seamless. I took it upon myself to learn as much as I could about any significant changes and I also composed a list of keystrokes that might have changed and anything I might want to change for optimal screen reader usage in the new environment to make my transition as easy as possible. the latter was minimal in the case of Windows 10.
It is one thing to state something as an opinion such as I feel that or it's been my experience that Windows 10 is unreliable; but to make a blanket statement that it is so as though it is fact for all is at the very least misleading and at its worst is blatantly erroneous.
I've been using Windows 10 for 18 or so months now and over all I've found it to be quite stable in terms of performance.

I mean no disrespect and hope I've offended no one especially the moderators by that which I've said. I just hate to think of someone holding back from updating a current machine, purchasing a new machine or feeling like they must completely abandon an operating system solely on the basis of opinions as opposed to facts. If someone chooses to make a purchase based on that which works best for them that's one thing I'd just hate for such to be fueled by that which promotes fear as opposed to fostering enlightenment or learning something new.
Respectfully,
Robin


-----Original Message-----
From: Pascal Lambert
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 9:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

I echo the same sentiment as Brian. The Win10 anniversary already caused me to buy another laptop I did not need as I was leaving on an overseas trip and my laptop was totally messed up after the update. I am honestly about to switch to a Mac as the Win environment is not reliable.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Austin Pinto
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

oh! when you said explode i thought it would sound much worced but.
its a nice directive

On 6/19/17, Brian's Mail list account <bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Joseph, though I do understand where you are coming from and the
frustration

you feel, I do honestly have sympathy with the end user who just wants
a reliable system.
Microsoft have to shoulder a good deal of the blame for what their
changes cause. I'm not suggesting in any way that they are
deliberately screwing things up here, just that they really do not
test stuff enough. For people

who do not use special builds of windows, ie insiders, or nvda. I do
not think it unreasonable to expect continuity and after a while
people do get fed up with having the rug pulled from under them on a
regular basis by software makers, be that Microsoft or anyone else.
So yes, in a development environment you would be justified in being
annoyed, but when people are trying to run their lives day to day and
keep encountering stones in the road and potholes not of their own
making it is,

I think understandable if people get fed up and take the easy option.
I have I know said much of this before, but like most of us, I have
had to

try to help people in real life away from this place and been almost
embarrassed when you eventually track down the issue to the actual
changes in the software and nothing to do with the end user, except
that he or she happens to be blind.

I'll shut up now and be quiet, bite my lip etc for a while. I nearly
bought

a new laptop last week but after reading about all the win 10 issues
decided

not to bother.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:22 AM
Subject: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a
reason

why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...


Dear NVDA community,



Disclaimer: for new community members, I'm normally not like this,
but I do sometimes right posts I believe folks should hear, as it
impacts community experience and what not. So my sincere apologies
for letting you witness my explosive side. Please bear with me for a
second, as it is important that

I
talk about the following regarding respecting engineers and announce
a directive for Windows 10 users:



In the blindness community (at least for members of various mailing
lists that I'm a part of or lead), I became synonymous with someone
who is willing to show patience until the end, especially when
resolving tech support problems. But there is a hidden side to that:
for certain things, I become

a
volcano, and those who've witnessed my lava flow knows what I mean.
Unfortunately, I believe it is time that I explode yet again (my
apologies to our dear leaders for doing something like this):



Answering questions: for many situations, when resolving issues, when
I and other engineers ask you questions in hopes of getting to the
meat of the burger. Sometimes we may ask you to tell us steps to
reproduce the given problem, what a screen reader says, and what not.
When developers ask you questions, please do your best to answer them
if possible.



For Windows 10 users: there is an important reason why I wrote
Windows 10 App Essentials: to prevent issues like the one Rosemarie
and others have experienced with Mail app. Hence the following directive:



Until now, it was optional for you to use Windows 10 app Essentials
add-on if you are using Windows 10. I'll make this an important
requirement starting from fall 2017. That is, starting from September
2017, when you report issues like the one Rosemarie has experienced,
I'll no longer ask you to install latest WinTenApps add-on: I'll
assume that you have. For Windows Insiders, this is a critical (and
mandatory) requirement.



I'm not announcing this directive just because I feel like doing it,
nor to increase popularity of my brainchild: Windows 10 App
Essentials add-on exists for important reasons:



* Workarounds for issues encountered by NVDA users when using Windows
10, including various UI Automation issues.
* Respond to changes in accessibility of various apps such as
removing workarounds put in place in past versions.
* Respond to app executable name changes (Microsoft has changed names
of at least three universal app executables).
* Provide essential features for Windows 10 users, including
suggestions announcement, emoji panel support (Fall Creators Update),
Edge notification announcements and others.
* To prove to Microsoft and third-party universal app developers that
accessibility should be a core design criteria for apps, including
letting screen reader users use apps to their full potential.



Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph





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Re: virtual review addon

Bill Dengler
 

Perhaps something (roughly) similar could be achieved by redesigning the OCR add-on to use a ui.BrowsableMessage? Sorry, unfamiliar with both adding…

Bill

On Jun 19, 2017, at 9:02 PM, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@gmail.com> wrote:

hi could you take virtual review one step farther? could you combine it with the OCR addon to put OCR stuff in the virtual buffer, especially if you OCR a pdf? and if possible announce that objects are clickable by hitting enter?

thanks


Josh


--
sent with mozilla thunderbird




virtual review addon

Josh Kennedy
 

hi could you take virtual review one step farther? could you combine it with the OCR addon to put OCR stuff in the virtual buffer, especially if you OCR a pdf? and if possible announce that objects are clickable by hitting enter?

thanks


Josh


--
sent with mozilla thunderbird


Clarification: last night's remarks, teaching style

 

Dear NVDA community:

 

I have received several remarks offlist regarding my comment to Rosemarie last night in regards to asking her what she has learned through the Mail app problem. I’ll take full responsibility of my remarks and tone, as a practical step, I’ll refrain from posting to this list for the rest of the week (and if I have offended folks, my sincere apologies).

 

As for teaching style I tend to employ: perhaps my remark from last night came as a result of my approach to teaching, which calls for students to have willingness to think, or at least, learn to think critically by asking tough questions, have willingness to fail in hopes of learning important lessons, and learn from mistakes. Perhaps this came as a result of my communication studies and argumentation training, being a member of the competitive speech and debate squad, things I’ve observed on various forums where people just believe whatever leaders say, or something else. My overall intention for asking Rosemarie to tell me what she has learned was to get her to think critically about what she has gone through, not just get a problem fixed. If I say I’m satisfied with the resolution of a problem, then this means no future preparations and applications through careful thinking. I personally believe in a community where not only people offer solutions, but also a venue where members can think critically, and I do know from a decade’s worth of experience on various forums that I’m thinking of an ideal community. One thing I personally would like to see is folks teaching novices not only the beauty of NVDA through solutions, but also fostering a sense of taking ownership of a product and thinking about it; in other words, I think it would be best to prepare willing novices for a time in the future where novices themselves would become power users and teach folks not only NVDA, but also to think carefully. Also, personally, I do not want our NVDA community to just be called “a community of users and developers of NVDA” – one thing that sets our community apart from others is unity, and I think it would be beneficial in the long run to add another title: thinking individuals.

 

Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Issue with NVDA 2017.1, and Outlook 2016

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

Hi Julia,

 

I’m now on NVDA 2017/2 but I didn’t have such problems tith Outlook 2016 and the 2017/1 version.

Whatever view I apply grouped by or not, NVDA just reads fine.

Is that for all folders or only for some? If only for some, try to reset the folder view and see if that helps.

 

Best regards,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Julia Aguilar
Sent: Montag, 19. Juni 2017 21:48
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Issue with NVDA 2017.1, and Outlook 2016

 

Hi All,

I am working through an issue with NVDA 2017.1, and Outlook 2016.

When arrowing through a list of messages, NVDA does not read as I arrow past. Silence ensues, however, visually, I am able to use the up/down arrows as expected.

The pains, except folder pain, are turned off.

The fix is to set group by to received, and then I am able to read the message list as expected. NVDA, of course, is more verbose with this setting, as it reads the group by, date, from, subject, and date again.

 

Any other tips or suggestions much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

Julia Aguilar

Adaptive Technology Trainer

 

Blind Foundation

Te Tūāpapa o Te Hunga Kāpō

121 Adelaide Road, Newtown, Wellington 6021

 

PO Box 27177, Marion Square 6141

Wellington

P: 04 380 2131 Ext:2131

M: +64278082801

 

Email: jaguilar@...

Blindfoundation.org.nz

For adaptive technology assistance, contact the adaptive technology help desk on 0800 243333

 

Sign up for the Blind Foundation eNewsletter
Follow us on Facebook and Twitter

#############################################################################
This email, including any attachments, is intended solely for the addressee(s)
It is confidential and may be legally privileged. 
If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, disclose, distribute
or otherwise use it or the information in it. Please notify the sender at once
and delete it from your system immediately. 
Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
necessarily represent those of the Blind Foundation.
The Blind Foundation does not accept responsibility for any viruses or other
malicious code that may be transmitted with this email.
#############################################################################

 


Weather Plus add-on

Dan Beaver
 

HI,


I am wondering if the weather plus add-on could be modified to allow for getting update notices or not getting them.  I tend to leave software as is unless I start having issues with it.  NVDA itself is one piece of software I do keep up to date but would really appreciate not having to kill/respond to update notices for weather plus since it is working just fine at the version I have installed.


thanks.


Dan Beaver


Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


Well said.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Hi,
Messages like the one below always cause me great concern when I encounter
them on lists such as this.
For the record I'd like to say the following in the interest of balance. I
like many others had my baptism by fire as it were emersion into Windows
necessitated by the death of my Windows 7 machine. And I would like to
proclaim that my experience while involving a slight learning curve as
moving to a new operating system version often does was relatively painless
and seamless. I took it upon myself to learn as much as I could about any
significant changes and I also composed a list of keystrokes that might have
changed and anything I might want to change for optimal screen reader usage
in the new environment to make my transition as easy as possible. the latter
was minimal in the case of Windows 10.
It is one thing to state something as an opinion such as I feel that or it's
been my experience that Windows 10 is unreliable; but to make a blanket
statement that it is so as though it is fact for all is at the very least
misleading and at its worst is blatantly erroneous.
I've been using Windows 10 for 18 or so months now and over all I've found
it to be quite stable in terms of performance.

I mean no disrespect and hope I've offended no one especially the moderators
by that which I've said. I just hate to think of someone holding back from
updating a current machine, purchasing a new machine or feeling like they
must completely abandon an operating system solely on the basis of opinions
as opposed to facts. If someone chooses to make a purchase based on that
which works best for them that's one thing I'd just hate for such to be
fueled by that which promotes fear as opposed to fostering enlightenment or
learning something new.
Respectfully,
Robin


-----Original Message-----
From: Pascal Lambert
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 9:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a
reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

I echo the same sentiment as Brian.  The Win10 anniversary already caused me
to buy another laptop I did not need as I was leaving on an overseas trip
and my laptop was totally messed up after the update.  I am honestly about
to switch to a Mac as the Win environment is not reliable.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Austin
Pinto
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a
reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

oh! when you said explode i thought it would sound much worced but.
its a nice directive

On 6/19/17, Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...> wrote:
> Joseph, though I do understand where you are coming from and the
> frustration
>
> you feel, I do honestly have sympathy with the end user who just wants
> a reliable system.
> Microsoft have to shoulder a good deal of the blame for what their
> changes cause. I'm not suggesting in any way that they are
> deliberately  screwing things up here, just that they  really do not
> test stuff enough. For people
>
> who do not use special builds of windows, ie insiders, or nvda. I do
> not think it unreasonable to expect continuity and after a while
> people do get fed up with having the rug pulled from under them on a
> regular basis by software makers, be that Microsoft or anyone else.
>  So yes, in a development environment you would be justified in being
> annoyed, but when people are trying to run their lives day to day and
> keep encountering stones in the road and potholes not of their own
> making  it is,
>
> I think understandable if people get fed up and take the easy option.
>  I have I know said much of this before, but like most of us, I have
> had to
>
> try to help people in real life away from this place and been almost
> embarrassed when you eventually track down the issue to the actual
> changes in the software and nothing to do with the end user, except
> that he or she happens to be blind.
>
> I'll shut up now and  be quiet, bite my lip etc for a while. I nearly
> bought
>
> a new laptop last week but after reading about all the win 10 issues
> decided
>
> not to bother.
>  Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:22 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a
> reason
>
> why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...
>
>
>> Dear NVDA community,
>>
>>
>>
>> Disclaimer: for new community members, I'm normally not like this,
>> but I do sometimes right posts I believe folks should hear, as it
>> impacts community experience and what not. So my sincere apologies
>> for letting you witness my explosive side. Please bear with me for a
>> second, as it is important that
>>
>> I
>> talk about the following regarding respecting engineers and announce
>> a directive for Windows 10 users:
>>
>>
>>
>> In the blindness community (at least for members of various mailing
>> lists that I'm a part of or lead), I became synonymous with someone
>> who is willing to show patience until the end, especially when
>> resolving tech support problems. But there is a hidden side to that:
>> for certain things, I become
>>
>> a
>> volcano, and those who've witnessed my lava flow knows what I mean.
>> Unfortunately, I believe it is time that I explode yet again (my
>> apologies to our dear leaders for doing something like this):
>>
>>
>>
>> Answering questions: for many situations, when resolving issues, when
>> I and other engineers ask you questions in hopes of getting to the
>> meat of the burger. Sometimes we may ask you to tell us steps to
>> reproduce the given problem, what a screen reader says, and what not.
>> When developers ask you questions, please do your best to answer them
>> if possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> For Windows 10 users: there is an important reason why I wrote
>> Windows 10 App Essentials: to prevent issues like the one Rosemarie
>> and others have experienced with Mail app. Hence the following directive:
>>
>>
>>
>> Until now, it was optional for you to use Windows 10 app Essentials
>> add-on if you are using Windows 10. I'll make this an important
>> requirement starting from fall 2017. That is, starting from September
>> 2017, when you report issues like the one Rosemarie has experienced,
>> I'll no longer ask you to install latest WinTenApps add-on: I'll
>> assume that you have. For Windows Insiders, this is a critical (and
>> mandatory) requirement.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not announcing this directive just because I feel like doing it,
>> nor to increase popularity of my brainchild: Windows 10 App
>> Essentials add-on exists for important reasons:
>>
>>
>>
>> * Workarounds for issues encountered by NVDA users when using Windows
>> 10, including various UI Automation issues.
>> * Respond to changes in accessibility of various apps such as
>> removing workarounds put in place in past versions.
>> * Respond to app executable name changes (Microsoft has changed names
>> of at least three universal app executables).
>> * Provide essential features for Windows 10 users, including
>> suggestions announcement, emoji panel support (Fall Creators Update),
>> Edge notification announcements and others.
>> * To prove to Microsoft and third-party universal app developers that
>> accessibility should be a core design criteria for apps, including
>> letting screen reader users use apps to their full potential.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@...
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3










Re: Introducing Virtual Review 2.1 #addonrelease

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

Aaho! Yeah! Nice! Work!
 
This is gonna be great!
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 1:37 PM
Subject: [nvda] Introducing Virtual Review 2.1 #AddonRelease

Dear NVDA community:

 

Virtual Review 2.1 is ready for download. This add-on lets you review screen content on a browse mode window when you press Control+NVDA+W.

 

Virtual Review 2.1 is specifically designed for Windows 8.x and 10 users, mostly benefits Windows 10 users. In particular, you can now (are you ready for this?) review screen contents of universal apps via virtual review window. This version also lets you see the title of the window you are virtually reviewing.

 

The add-on page is at:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/virtualRevision.en.html

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


As both a Windows, and a mac user, I have to totally disagree. The mac looks absolutely nothing like Windows, but that's just one user's opinion, and isn't an official fact, so keep that in mind.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Arlene
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Hi, I can't say I don’t blame you for switching to Mac! I hear win ten is looking like Mac. Some say it looks like 7.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pascal Lambert
Sent: June-19-17 6:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

I echo the same sentiment as Brian.  The Win10 anniversary already caused me to buy another laptop I did not need as I was leaving on an overseas trip and my laptop was totally messed up after the update.  I am honestly about to switch to a Mac as the Win environment is not reliable.
Blessings
Pascal
  
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Austin Pinto
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

oh! when you said explode i thought it would sound much worced but.
its a nice directive

On 6/19/17, Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...> wrote:
> Joseph, though I do understand where you are coming from and the
> frustration
>
> you feel, I do honestly have sympathy with the end user who just wants
> a reliable system.
> Microsoft have to shoulder a good deal of the blame for what their
> changes cause. I'm not suggesting in any way that they are
> deliberately  screwing things up here, just that they  really do not
> test stuff enough. For people
>
> who do not use special builds of windows, ie insiders, or nvda. I do
> not think it unreasonable to expect continuity and after a while
> people do get fed up with having the rug pulled from under them on a
> regular basis by software makers, be that Microsoft or anyone else.
>  So yes, in a development environment you would be justified in being
> annoyed, but when people are trying to run their lives day to day and
> keep encountering stones in the road and potholes not of their own
> making  it is,
>
> I think understandable if people get fed up and take the easy option.
>  I have I know said much of this before, but like most of us, I have
> had to
>
> try to help people in real life away from this place and been almost
> embarrassed when you eventually track down the issue to the actual
> changes in the software and nothing to do with the end user, except
> that he or she happens to be blind.
>
> I'll shut up now and  be quiet, bite my lip etc for a while. I nearly
> bought
>
> a new laptop last week but after reading about all the win 10 issues
> decided
>
> not to bother.
>  Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:22 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a
> reason
>
> why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...
>
>
>> Dear NVDA community,
>>
>>
>>
>> Disclaimer: for new community members, I'm normally not like this,
>> but I do sometimes right posts I believe folks should hear, as it
>> impacts community experience and what not. So my sincere apologies
>> for letting you witness my explosive side. Please bear with me for a
>> second, as it is important that
>>
>> I
>> talk about the following regarding respecting engineers and announce
>> a directive for Windows 10 users:
>>
>>
>>
>> In the blindness community (at least for members of various mailing
>> lists that I'm a part of or lead), I became synonymous with someone
>> who is willing to show patience until the end, especially when
>> resolving tech support problems. But there is a hidden side to that:
>> for certain things, I become
>>
>> a
>> volcano, and those who've witnessed my lava flow knows what I mean.
>> Unfortunately, I believe it is time that I explode yet again (my
>> apologies to our dear leaders for doing something like this):
>>
>>
>>
>> Answering questions: for many situations, when resolving issues, when
>> I and other engineers ask you questions in hopes of getting to the
>> meat of the burger. Sometimes we may ask you to tell us steps to
>> reproduce the given problem, what a screen reader says, and what not.
>> When developers ask you questions, please do your best to answer them
>> if possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> For Windows 10 users: there is an important reason why I wrote
>> Windows 10 App Essentials: to prevent issues like the one Rosemarie
>> and others have experienced with Mail app. Hence the following directive:
>>
>>
>>
>> Until now, it was optional for you to use Windows 10 app Essentials
>> add-on if you are using Windows 10. I'll make this an important
>> requirement starting from fall 2017. That is, starting from September
>> 2017, when you report issues like the one Rosemarie has experienced,
>> I'll no longer ask you to install latest WinTenApps add-on: I'll
>> assume that you have. For Windows Insiders, this is a critical (and
>> mandatory) requirement.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not announcing this directive just because I feel like doing it,
>> nor to increase popularity of my brainchild: Windows 10 App
>> Essentials add-on exists for important reasons:
>>
>>
>>
>> * Workarounds for issues encountered by NVDA users when using Windows
>> 10, including various UI Automation issues.
>> * Respond to changes in accessibility of various apps such as
>> removing workarounds put in place in past versions.
>> * Respond to app executable name changes (Microsoft has changed names
>> of at least three universal app executables).
>> * Provide essential features for Windows 10 users, including
>> suggestions announcement, emoji panel support (Fall Creators Update),
>> Edge notification announcements and others.
>> * To prove to Microsoft and third-party universal app developers that
>> accessibility should be a core design criteria for apps, including
>> letting screen reader users use apps to their full potential.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@...
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3










Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

I'm guessing it's technical reasons, but I'll let the author put in their two cents.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

I don't want to make anyone mad, but here goes.


If this Windows ten ap is so important to have, why isn't it somehow included with the core of NVDA rather than as a separate item that must be downloaded by the user?



On 6/18/2017 11:22 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Dear NVDA community,

 

Disclaimer: for new community members, I’m normally not like this, but I do sometimes right posts I believe folks should hear, as it impacts community experience and what not. So my sincere apologies for letting you witness my explosive side. Please bear with me for a second, as it is important that I talk about the following regarding respecting engineers and announce a directive for Windows 10 users:

 

In the blindness community (at least for members of various mailing lists that I’m a part of or lead), I became synonymous with someone who is willing to show patience until the end, especially when resolving tech support problems. But there is a hidden side to that: for certain things, I become a volcano, and those who’ve witnessed my lava flow knows what I mean. Unfortunately, I believe it is time that I explode yet again (my apologies to our dear leaders for doing something like this):

 

Answering questions: for many situations, when resolving issues, when I and other engineers ask you questions in hopes of getting to the meat of the burger. Sometimes we may ask you to tell us steps to reproduce the given problem, what a screen reader says, and what not. When developers ask you questions, please do your best to answer them if possible.

 

For Windows 10 users: there is an important reason why I wrote Windows 10 App Essentials: to prevent issues like the one Rosemarie and others have experienced with Mail app. Hence the following directive:

 

Until now, it was optional for you to use Windows 10 app Essentials add-on if you are using Windows 10. I’ll make this an important requirement starting from fall 2017. That is, starting from September 2017, when you report issues like the one Rosemarie has experienced, I’ll no longer ask you to install latest WinTenApps add-on: I’ll assume that you have. For Windows Insiders, this is a critical (and mandatory) requirement.

 

I’m not announcing this directive just because I feel like doing it, nor to increase popularity of my brainchild: Windows 10 App Essentials add-on exists for important reasons:

 

  • Workarounds for issues encountered by NVDA users when using Windows 10, including various UI Automation issues.
  • Respond to changes in accessibility of various apps such as removing workarounds put in place in past versions.
  • Respond to app executable name changes (Microsoft has changed names of at least three universal app executables).
  • Provide essential features for Windows 10 users, including suggestions announcement, emoji panel support (Fall Creators Update), Edge notification announcements and others.
  • To prove to Microsoft and third-party universal app developers that accessibility should be a core design criteria for apps, including letting screen reader users use apps to their full potential.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

Likewise.
 
Please, guys, can we be respectful here?
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 3:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Joseph, though I do understand where you are coming from and the frustration
you feel, I do honestly have sympathy with the end user who just wants a
reliable system.
Microsoft have to shoulder a good deal of the blame for what their changes
cause. I'm not suggesting in any way that they are deliberately  screwing
things up here, just that they  really do not test stuff enough. For people
who do not use special builds of windows, ie insiders, or nvda. I do not
think it unreasonable to expect continuity and after a while people do get
fed up with having the rug pulled from under them on a regular basis by
software makers, be that Microsoft or anyone else.
 So yes, in a development environment you would be justified in being
annoyed, but when people are trying to run their lives day to day and keep
encountering stones in the road and potholes not of their own making  it is,
I think understandable if people get fed up and take the easy option.
 I have I know said much of this before, but like most of us, I have had to
try to help people in real life away from this place and been almost
embarrassed when you eventually track down the issue to the actual changes
in the software and nothing to do with the end user, except that he or she
happens to be blind.

I'll shut up now and  be quiet, bite my lip etc for a while. I nearly bought
a new laptop last week but after reading about all the win 10 issues decided
not to bother.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:22 AM
Subject: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason
why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...


> Dear NVDA community,
>
>
>
> Disclaimer: for new community members, I'm normally not like this, but I
> do
> sometimes right posts I believe folks should hear, as it impacts community
> experience and what not. So my sincere apologies for letting you witness
> my
> explosive side. Please bear with me for a second, as it is important that
> I
> talk about the following regarding respecting engineers and announce a
> directive for Windows 10 users:
>
>
>
> In the blindness community (at least for members of various mailing lists
> that I'm a part of or lead), I became synonymous with someone who is
> willing
> to show patience until the end, especially when resolving tech support
> problems. But there is a hidden side to that: for certain things, I become
> a
> volcano, and those who've witnessed my lava flow knows what I mean.
> Unfortunately, I believe it is time that I explode yet again (my apologies
> to our dear leaders for doing something like this):
>
>
>
> Answering questions: for many situations, when resolving issues, when I
> and
> other engineers ask you questions in hopes of getting to the meat of the
> burger. Sometimes we may ask you to tell us steps to reproduce the given
> problem, what a screen reader says, and what not. When developers ask you
> questions, please do your best to answer them if possible.
>
>
>
> For Windows 10 users: there is an important reason why I wrote Windows 10
> App Essentials: to prevent issues like the one Rosemarie and others have
> experienced with Mail app. Hence the following directive:
>
>
>
> Until now, it was optional for you to use Windows 10 app Essentials add-on
> if you are using Windows 10. I'll make this an important requirement
> starting from fall 2017. That is, starting from September 2017, when you
> report issues like the one Rosemarie has experienced, I'll no longer ask
> you
> to install latest WinTenApps add-on: I'll assume that you have. For
> Windows
> Insiders, this is a critical (and mandatory) requirement.
>
>
>
> I'm not announcing this directive just because I feel like doing it, nor
> to
> increase popularity of my brainchild: Windows 10 App Essentials add-on
> exists for important reasons:
>
>
>
> * Workarounds for issues encountered by NVDA users when using Windows
> 10, including various UI Automation issues.
> * Respond to changes in accessibility of various apps such as removing
> workarounds put in place in past versions.
> * Respond to app executable name changes (Microsoft has changed names
> of at least three universal app executables).
> * Provide essential features for Windows 10 users, including
> suggestions announcement, emoji panel support (Fall Creators Update), Edge
> notification announcements and others.
> * To prove to Microsoft and third-party universal app developers that
> accessibility should be a core design criteria for apps, including letting
> screen reader users use apps to their full potential.
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joseph
>
>




Re: how do you close the microsoft edge browser?

Gene
 

As long as you only have one tab opened, alt f4 will close the program.  If you have more than one tab opened, alt f4 presents a message you have to respond to.  I don't use Edge but based on other comments, it is similar to the message Firefox presents asking you if you want to close all tabs.  You couldn't close the program with alt f4 because you didn't respond to the message, a message you will see and hear now that you are using the latest Windows 10 accessibility add on.  I don't remember its exact name.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how do you close the microsoft edge browser?

Hi, Chris,

 

Apparently it is. That could be why Microsoft will do away with IE sometime soon. Believe it or not, I was able to close edge with alt F-4 after reading the weather forcast for my area.

 

Rosemarie

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 12:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how do you close the microsoft edge browser?

 

I, personally prefer IE, but, I've converted to Chrome, as I hear that even on an up to date system with all security patches, IE's quite insecure in very many respects.

 

Is that altogether true?

---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 3:20 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] how do you close the microsoft edge browser?

 

I think that Internet Explorer will be around for a year, perhaps two.  Accessibility is improving with Edge but I don't think Microsoft will stop security updates for Internet Explorer until accessibility with Edge is good.  Also, I question whether Edge will have any meaningful advantages over Firefox or Chrome.  Unless you are just curious and want to play with Edge, it is probably a much better idea to use one or both of these other browsers. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 8:29 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] how do you close the microsoft edge browser?

 

Hi, Gene NZ,

 

Thanks very much for your help. I figure it's time I learned how to use edge because I don't know how soon internet explorer will be no more. The written tutorial did help a lot.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 6:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how do you close the microsoft edge browser?

 

Hi

 

the following page might help you. It is the nvda tutorials for other programs page which is found at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20tutorials%20for%20other%20programs.html

When you are on it jump down by headings to the section that says about Microsoft edge, a page come off that and hopefully will help you with it.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 6/19/2017 12:30 PM, Pascal Lambert wrote:

Hi,

While we are on the subject of Edge, how do you get to the menus?  How do you get to the favorits?

Many thanks

Blessings

Pascal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 7:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how do you close the microsoft edge browser?

 

Hi,

Ah, you may have multiple tabs open. Try pressing Control+W repeatedly until Edge closes.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 4:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how do you close the microsoft edge browser?

 

Hi, Roger,

 

I still can't close the browser. I can't even go to the file menu to close it. I'm heaqring a youtube videoon edge but want to get out of it! This is frustrating! What do I do now?

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 4:33 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how do you close the microsoft edge browser?

 

I tried alt F-4 but it didn't work. I'll give it another try. Maybe I didn't close it correctly.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 4:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how do you close the microsoft edge browser?

 

I've just played with it a bit, but was always able to close it with alt f4 just like any other program.

Roger








On 6/18/2017 6:20 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, everyone,

 

I decided to play with edge a little bit but I had trouble closing the browser. I had to go to the desktop and then shut down. There has to be a way to close it like you do other browsers.

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 


Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Kevin Cussick
 

the one advantage as an addon is if there is a problem it can be fixed fast like the mail app.

On 19/06/2017 12:46, Ron Canazzi wrote:
I don't want to make anyone mad, but here goes.
If this Windows ten ap is so important to have, why isn't it somehow included with the core of NVDA rather than as a separate item that must be downloaded by the user?
On 6/18/2017 11:22 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Dear NVDA community,

Disclaimer: for new community members, I’m normally not like this, but I do sometimes right posts I believe folks should hear, as it impacts community experience and what not. So my sincere apologies for letting you witness my explosive side. Please bear with me for a second, as it is important that I talk about the following regarding respecting engineers and announce a directive for Windows 10 users:

In the blindness community (at least for members of various mailing lists that I’m a part of or lead), I became synonymous with someone who is willing to show patience until the end, especially when resolving tech support problems. But there is a hidden side to that: for certain things, I become a volcano, and those who’ve witnessed my lava flow knows what I mean. Unfortunately, I believe it is time that I explode yet again (my apologies to our dear leaders for doing something like this):

Answering questions: for many situations, when resolving issues, when I and other engineers ask you questions in hopes of getting to the meat of the burger. Sometimes we may ask you to tell us steps to reproduce the given problem, what a screen reader says, and what not. When developers ask you questions, please do your best to answer them if possible.

For Windows 10 users: there is an important reason why I wrote Windows 10 App Essentials: to prevent issues like the one Rosemarie and others have experienced with Mail app. Hence the following directive:

Until now, it was optional for you to use Windows 10 app Essentials add-on if you are using Windows 10. I’ll make this an important requirement starting from fall 2017. That is, starting from September 2017, when you report issues like the one Rosemarie has experienced, I’ll no longer ask you to install latest WinTenApps add-on: I’ll assume that you have. For Windows Insiders, this is a critical (and mandatory) requirement.

I’m not announcing this directive just because I feel like doing it, nor to increase popularity of my brainchild: Windows 10 App Essentials add-on exists for important reasons:

* Workarounds for issues encountered by NVDA users when using
Windows 10, including various UI Automation issues.
* Respond to changes in accessibility of various apps such as
removing workarounds put in place in past versions.
* Respond to app executable name changes (Microsoft has changed
names of at least three universal app executables).
* Provide essential features for Windows 10 users, including
suggestions announcement, emoji panel support (Fall Creators
Update), Edge notification announcements and others.
* To prove to Microsoft and third-party universal app developers
that accessibility should be a core design criteria for apps,
including letting screen reader users use apps to their full
potential.

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"