Date   

Re: NVDA and Google Chrome

Don H
 

control shift b doesn't work for me.

On 6/20/2017 9:26 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
Hi Jean,
What’s wrong with Control-Shift-B? Works for me every time.
All the best
Steve
*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 15 June 2017 15:14
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] NVDA and Google Chrome
After all these years, Chrome doesn't have such a shortcut. You can open the menu with alt, press enter when the menu opens, type b and then press enter again.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Don H <mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>
*Sent:*Thursday, June 15, 2017 9:06 AM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*[nvda] NVDA and Google Chrome
In both IE and Firefox there is a simple way to get to your favorites
with Alt A and Alt B. Is there a hot key combination to open favorites
or bookmarks in google chrome?
Thanks


Re: Clarification: last night's remarks, teaching style

 

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 01:34 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
and they don't work only to find out that a certain mega corp. has done the deed and this means changing either way you work or installing yet more software to fix it
In other words, you have to do the same thing that everyone does.

I hate these sorts of changes as much as anyone, but the whining about how things change and having to deal with them whether you want to or not from anyone who's been using a computer for more than a few months just doesn't hold water.  It sounds immature and completely unaware of how the computing world works, and has worked for the coming up on the 35 years I've been in it.

There are challenges inherent in having to use accessibility software that make some of these unexpected changes far more frustrating, and I get that, but they are never going away.  They are a fact of life.

If you can't deal with change, and unexpected change, then get away from computing in particular and technology in general as quickly as you can!

P.S. to Joseph and others:  I applaud that teaching style.  It goes back to the "Give a man a fish/Teach a man to fish" dichotomy.  I make a point of trying to teach my students to expect the unexpected and then to have a system for trying to "think their way out of it" when it occurs.  Sometimes that involves asking for help or asking direct questions of others, but that doesn't remove the need to think about why you're asking what you're asking before you ask it.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.332

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: NVDA and Google Chrome

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Jean,

 

What’s wrong with Control-Shift-B?  Works for me every time.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 15 June 2017 15:14
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Google Chrome

 

After all these years, Chrome doesn't have such a shortcut.  You can open the menu with alt, press enter when the menu opens, type b and then press enter again. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

From: Don H

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 9:06 AM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA and Google Chrome

 

In both IE and Firefox there is a simple way to get to your favorites
with Alt A and Alt B.  Is there a hot key combination to open favorites
or bookmarks in google chrome?
Thanks


Re: libreoffice 5.4 calc and using it with nvda

 

hi.
crash in calc you mean introduced in 5.3?
i tried to send email for you privately, but i recieved that souch
email address is not exist!
i wanted to you test 5.4 and send me the result about calc in my email.
5.2 and 5.3 calc is not accessible for screen readers and one of
developers told that its fixed in 5.4.
could you please test it and give me the result?
you can send me email privately to discuss about libreoffice!
God bless you and i appreciate you for your help.

On 6/20/17, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io
<wsautodidata=yahoo.com.br@groups.io> wrote:
Hi,


I am so sorry.

Excuse me, I did not realize I were still using LibreOffice 5.3.

I will test 5.4...



Em 20/06/2017 08:52, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io escreveu:
Hi,

All the issues are still there (including the crashes that were
introduced in version 5.3).




Em 19/06/2017 02:18, nasrin khaksar escreveu:
hi walmir and also nvda users and developers.

i reported bug 108474 and one of developers told me that problem using
calc is solved in 5.4 branch of libreoffice.
could you please test this version and give me the result to report to
the developers?
i read in the list that calc 5.2 and later dont work well using nvda
and have problems.
i also tried calc 5.2 and 5.3 and realized the problem and reported it
to the libreoffice group.
thanks so much and God bless you.
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/download/?version=5.4.0






--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Attention NVDA next snapshot users: if using WinTenApps dev builds, you need to update to June 20th snapshot

 

Hi NVDA community,

 

Some of you may have received several copies of the below notice (if you’re subscribed to various NVDA lists). Normally I don’t post things about add-on snapshots, but given some important work that’s being done in NVDA Core (the screen reader itself), I believe you need to know what’s up:

 

Advisory for Windows 10 App Essentials development snapshot users: if you are using NVDA next snapshot build 14121 or later, you need to update to WinTenApps June 20th development snapshot due to the following:

 

Mick Curran from NV Access is working on improving support for Skype for Business (formerly known as Lync). As part of this work, he has implemented an event handler for live region change event that applies everywhere. The live region change event is used to communicate to screen readers that a live text has changed, such as those found in various Windows 10 apps, Skype for Business, Windows Update installation notices seen when the computer restarts, announcements in Edge and other places.

 

In the past, I have included live region change routine in Windows 10 App Essentials add-on. However, with the latest NVDA next snapshot, this is no longer necessary, instead causing double speaking of announcements in places where it shouldn’t do that. The June 20th WinTenApps development snapshot fixes this. Note that this is just the beginning of a series of builds where WinTenApps will learn to respect live region change events in different places.

 

As a result of this, the following features will come to a nearest NVDA copy near you in the future (as early as August 2017 via NVDA 2017.3):

 

  • NVDA will announce incoming messages in Skype for Business.
  • When your computer restarts to install updates, NVDA will announce update progress messages.
  • Certain prompts that weren’t announced in login screens, such as incorrect password prompt and others will be announced.
  • In Windows 10, numerous enhancements will show up. See the next list for a full list.

 

Improvements specific to Windows 10 and universal apps:

  • In Settings app, currently you have to use the Windows 10 App Essentials add-on to hear progress of update downloads. This will no longer be the case in the future: NVDA will gain the ability to announce this info on its own without needing the add-on anymore (actually, you still need it, as the future work will focus on filtering out unnecessary announcements).
  • In Settings app, when searching for something, NVDA will let you know if the search term has no results. This too required Windows 10 App Essentials but the add-on won’t be required anymore later.
  • If you have a Windows Hello capable device (such as an infrared camera, fingerprint reader (such as the one on my new ThinkPad) and so on), NVDA will give voice prompts when you set up Windows Hello.
  • Additional messages are announced in apps such as Edge, Store, Skype (universal app version) and so on.

 

Known issues with the add-on:

  • When downloading updates from Settings app (Windows 10), you’ll notice NVDA announcing progress percentages. I’ll come up with a fix for it later today.

 

Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: text only weather resource page and NVDA

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Laurie,


They have totally redesigned the web interface for braille.wunderground.com. What you can do is the following.


This address below is the address I had previously bookmarked for my zip code 14225.

http://braille.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?brand=braille&query=14225

Take that address, remove the zip code 14225 and put your own zip code in its place. Then paste that into your browser of choice. When the page comes up, bookmark that page in your favorites.


This way you will have the page until they change the database at its core.


I hope this helps.

On 6/20/2017 2:50 AM, Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io wrote:
This evening I tried to go to braille.wunderground.com which had been a good text-only weather resource.
The link took me to a different page at weather underground, though, and that page was not very user-friendly for me. (I'm using firefox v54 and NVDA v17.1.)

I'm wondering if any of you know if the braille.wunderground page is gone forever and if you have another page to recommend?

Thanks,
Laurie M.


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Taking back the directive: RE: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Rich De Steno <ironrock@...>
 

I usually do not post to this list unless I have a question, but I feel compelled to do so in this instance.  People like Joseph Lee, who give so much of their time and effort to provide services and expertise for us, should be treated with respect and deference.  I do not know who Brandon Cross is, but his below-post borders on hysteria and outright obnoxious abuse of Joseph.  His extreme reaction to Joseph's innocuous comments reveal a level of rage and anger that is irrational, and should be condemned by all of us.  Describing Joseph's comments as "directives on high" and "egotistical and arrogant", is ridiculous and unwarranted, and Brandon should immediately apologize or do us all a favor and leave this list so that we may be free of any of his further destructive vitriol.  Joseph, please disregard such unwarranted attacks as the ravings of malcontents and continue to post here as usual.  As for me, I personally say thanks for all your assistance and please continue to work so diligently on our behalf.


On 6/20/2017 8:11 AM, Jonathan Milam wrote:

I couldn’t agree more.  It is truly remarkable what all you have done and continue to do for the NVDA community!!

 

Jonathan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sam Bushman
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 11:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Taking back the directive: RE: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Hi Joseph,

 

I for one am thankful for all you do my friend.

Sam

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 9:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Taking back the directive: RE: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Hi,

Perhaps overreaction from my part may have led to this… What was meant to be a way to ease support may have led to unintended consequences. I throw my hands in the air: given some strong community reactions, I’ll take back the add-on directive, as well as extending self-imposed moderation on my post until end of June (i.e. I won’t say anything on this list for a while).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brandon Cross
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Here's the problem, an addon is just that, something you bolt on, or tack on to a piece of software to extend it, or give it some added functionality. Just because you have developed addons, does not give you the right to issue directives on high to anyone, for any reason. This is egotistical and arrogant, and while I'm sure you have good intentions at heart, my blood boiled when I saw that. We are all not like you, we all don't run the latest insider fast ring builds. Some of us only have one machine, either that, or we just prefer to use something that's going to be more stable. I personally have made the choice to stay clear of insider builds after several bad experiences with them across two separate machines. You probably have a core of testers who will do what you want them to do, or need them to do, the rest of us are just end-users, and are not subject to your whims, no matter how much they may help you in the future. I honestly wonder if anyone else didn't blow up at those words. I don't usually like to partake in back and forth drama, but this just takes the cake as far as I'm concerned. You're an addon dev and work with the NVDA team, this does not make you god. You need to learn that right off. I personally use a few of your addons and enjoy them, and appreciate the work you put into them, however, as I mentioned above, the narcissism needs to stop from you.


-- 
Rich De Steno


Re: libreoffice 5.4 calc and using it with nvda

Walmir Schultz <wsautodidata@...>
 

Hi,


I am so sorry.

Excuse me, I did not realize I were still using LibreOffice 5.3.

I will test 5.4...



Em 20/06/2017 08:52, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io escreveu:

Hi,

All the issues are still there (including the crashes that were introduced in version 5.3).




Em 19/06/2017 02:18, nasrin khaksar escreveu:
hi walmir and also nvda users and developers.

i reported bug 108474 and one of developers told me that problem using
calc is solved in 5.4 branch of libreoffice.
could you please test this version and give me the result to report to
the developers?
i read in the list that calc 5.2 and later dont work well using nvda
and have problems.
i also tried calc 5.2 and 5.3 and realized the problem and reported it
to the libreoffice group.
thanks so much and God bless you.
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/download/?version=5.4.0


Re: NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

Sam Bushman
 

I already did that in outlook.
Thanks,
Sam

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 12:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016


Well you need to update office from any office application.

hit winkey and r type winword.

that will open word.

then hit the following key sequence

alt f for file d for account tab to office update hit space hit space on check for update

next alt tab to word and hit alt f4 there will be a dialog saying its downloading updates, they are being streamed from the cloud, it can take a while but will eventually update.



On 20/06/2017 2:51 p.m., Sam Bushman wrote:
When I run windows update I get this message:



Update status

Your device is up to date. Last checked: Today, ‏‎12:31 PM



Do you mean I should update outlook?



I will try that as well.



Thank you,

Sam



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Pranav Lal
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016



Hi Sam,



I use Outlook 2016 regularly at home and have not had these issues.



Are you on the latest version of windows 10? I do not think so. Can you upgrade?

Pranav




Re: Taking back the directive: RE: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Jonathan Milam
 

I couldn’t agree more.  It is truly remarkable what all you have done and continue to do for the NVDA community!!

 

Jonathan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sam Bushman
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 11:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Taking back the directive: RE: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Hi Joseph,

 

I for one am thankful for all you do my friend.

Sam

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 9:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Taking back the directive: RE: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Hi,

Perhaps overreaction from my part may have led to this… What was meant to be a way to ease support may have led to unintended consequences. I throw my hands in the air: given some strong community reactions, I’ll take back the add-on directive, as well as extending self-imposed moderation on my post until end of June (i.e. I won’t say anything on this list for a while).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brandon Cross
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Here's the problem, an addon is just that, something you bolt on, or tack on to a piece of software to extend it, or give it some added functionality. Just because you have developed addons, does not give you the right to issue directives on high to anyone, for any reason. This is egotistical and arrogant, and while I'm sure you have good intentions at heart, my blood boiled when I saw that. We are all not like you, we all don't run the latest insider fast ring builds. Some of us only have one machine, either that, or we just prefer to use something that's going to be more stable. I personally have made the choice to stay clear of insider builds after several bad experiences with them across two separate machines. You probably have a core of testers who will do what you want them to do, or need them to do, the rest of us are just end-users, and are not subject to your whims, no matter how much they may help you in the future. I honestly wonder if anyone else didn't blow up at those words. I don't usually like to partake in back and forth drama, but this just takes the cake as far as I'm concerned. You're an addon dev and work with the NVDA team, this does not make you god. You need to learn that right off. I personally use a few of your addons and enjoy them, and appreciate the work you put into them, however, as I mentioned above, the narcissism needs to stop from you.


Re: libreoffice 5.4 calc and using it with nvda

Walmir Schultz <wsautodidata@...>
 

Hi,

All the issues are still there (including the crashes that were introduced in version 5.3).




Em 19/06/2017 02:18, nasrin khaksar escreveu:

hi walmir and also nvda users and developers.

i reported bug 108474 and one of developers told me that problem using
calc is solved in 5.4 branch of libreoffice.
could you please test this version and give me the result to report to
the developers?
i read in the list that calc 5.2 and later dont work well using nvda
and have problems.
i also tried calc 5.2 and 5.3 and realized the problem and reported it
to the libreoffice group.
thanks so much and God bless you.
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/download/?version=5.4.0


Re: text only weather resource page and NVDA

 

If you use the link below it will take you to the Atlanta braille link. Just type in your zip and you should be good to go.

https://braille.wunderground.com/auto/braille/GA/Atlanta.html

 

 


Casey Mathews
http://linkedin.com/in/caseymathews

 

From: Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 2:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] text only weather resource page and NVDA

 

This evening I tried to go to braille.wunderground.com which had been a good text-only weather resource.
The link took me to a different page at weather underground, though, and that page was not very user-friendly for me. (I'm using firefox v54 and NVDA v17.1.)

I'm wondering if any of you know if the braille.wunderground page is gone forever and if you have another page to recommend?

Thanks,
Laurie M.

 


Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Austin Pinto <austinpinto.xaviers@...>
 

yes. just cause some people cant take directives you should not put
your self on moderation.

On 6/20/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
He did it behind that wall over there so you did not see it..:-)
Sorry I'm not here, honestly.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Austin Pinto" <austinpinto.xaviers@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a
reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...


oh! when you said explode i thought it would sound much worced but.
its a nice directive

On 6/19/17, Brian's Mail list account <bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Joseph, though I do understand where you are coming from and the
frustration

you feel, I do honestly have sympathy with the end user who just wants a
reliable system.
Microsoft have to shoulder a good deal of the blame for what their
changes
cause. I'm not suggesting in any way that they are deliberately
screwing
things up here, just that they really do not test stuff enough. For
people

who do not use special builds of windows, ie insiders, or nvda. I do not
think it unreasonable to expect continuity and after a while people do
get
fed up with having the rug pulled from under them on a regular basis by
software makers, be that Microsoft or anyone else.
So yes, in a development environment you would be justified in being
annoyed, but when people are trying to run their lives day to day and
keep
encountering stones in the road and potholes not of their own making it

is,

I think understandable if people get fed up and take the easy option.
I have I know said much of this before, but like most of us, I have had

to

try to help people in real life away from this place and been almost
embarrassed when you eventually track down the issue to the actual
changes
in the software and nothing to do with the end user, except that he or
she
happens to be blind.

I'll shut up now and be quiet, bite my lip etc for a while. I nearly
bought

a new laptop last week but after reading about all the win 10 issues
decided

not to bother.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:22 AM
Subject: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a
reason

why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...


Dear NVDA community,



Disclaimer: for new community members, I'm normally not like this, but
I
do
sometimes right posts I believe folks should hear, as it impacts
community
experience and what not. So my sincere apologies for letting you
witness
my
explosive side. Please bear with me for a second, as it is important
that

I
talk about the following regarding respecting engineers and announce a
directive for Windows 10 users:



In the blindness community (at least for members of various mailing
lists
that I'm a part of or lead), I became synonymous with someone who is
willing
to show patience until the end, especially when resolving tech support
problems. But there is a hidden side to that: for certain things, I
become

a
volcano, and those who've witnessed my lava flow knows what I mean.
Unfortunately, I believe it is time that I explode yet again (my
apologies
to our dear leaders for doing something like this):



Answering questions: for many situations, when resolving issues, when I
and
other engineers ask you questions in hopes of getting to the meat of
the
burger. Sometimes we may ask you to tell us steps to reproduce the
given
problem, what a screen reader says, and what not. When developers ask
you
questions, please do your best to answer them if possible.



For Windows 10 users: there is an important reason why I wrote Windows
10
App Essentials: to prevent issues like the one Rosemarie and others
have
experienced with Mail app. Hence the following directive:



Until now, it was optional for you to use Windows 10 app Essentials
add-on
if you are using Windows 10. I'll make this an important requirement
starting from fall 2017. That is, starting from September 2017, when
you
report issues like the one Rosemarie has experienced, I'll no longer
ask
you
to install latest WinTenApps add-on: I'll assume that you have. For
Windows
Insiders, this is a critical (and mandatory) requirement.



I'm not announcing this directive just because I feel like doing it,
nor
to
increase popularity of my brainchild: Windows 10 App Essentials add-on
exists for important reasons:



* Workarounds for issues encountered by NVDA users when using Windows
10, including various UI Automation issues.
* Respond to changes in accessibility of various apps such as removing
workarounds put in place in past versions.
* Respond to app executable name changes (Microsoft has changed names
of at least three universal app executables).
* Provide essential features for Windows 10 users, including
suggestions announcement, emoji panel support (Fall Creators Update),
Edge
notification announcements and others.
* To prove to Microsoft and third-party universal app developers that
accessibility should be a core design criteria for apps, including
letting
screen reader users use apps to their full potential.



Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph





--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@gmail.com
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3






--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@gmail.com
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3


Re: A question about non destructive errors

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Be interesting to know exactly what was expected, and of that stuff.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question about non destructive errors


What were you doing when you pressed down arrow (It looks like pressing
down arrow has triggered it)?

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Sam Bushman <libertyroundtable@gmail.com>
wrote:

I get the following errors:



ERROR - scriptHandler.executeScript (13:30:32.572):

error executing script: <bound method MSHTML.script_moveByLine_forward of
<virtualBuffers.MSHTML.MSHTML object at 0x04EA1270>> with gesture u'down
arrow'

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "scriptHandler.pyc", line 187, in executeScript

File "cursorManager.pyc", line 209, in script_moveByLine_forward

File "cursorManager.pyc", line 139, in _caretMovementScriptHelper

File "browseMode.pyc", line 1150, in _set_selection

File "browseMode.pyc", line 1165, in _shouldSetFocusToObj

File "baseObject.pyc", line 34, in __get__

File "baseObject.pyc", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache

File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\MSHTML.pyc", line 925, in _get_isFocusable

File "comtypes\client\lazybind.pyc", line 207, in __call__

File "comtypes\automation.pyc", line 664, in _invoke

COMError: (-2147352319 <(214)%20735-2319>, None, (None, None, None, 0,
None))

ERROR - RPC process 4468 (nvda_slave.exe) (13:44:26.766):

__main__.main:

slave error

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "nvda_slave.pyw", line 90, in main

File "comHelper.pyc", line 22, in _lresultFromGetActiveObject

File "comtypes\client\__init__.pyc", line 180, in GetActiveObject

File "comtypes\__init__.pyc", line 1165, in GetActiveObject

File "_ctypes/callproc.c", line 950, in GetResult

WindowsError: [Error -2147221021 <(214)%20722-1021>] Operation unavailable

ERROR - scriptHandler.executeScript (13:45:32.332):

error executing script: <bound method MSHTML.script_moveByLine_forward of
<virtualBuffers.MSHTML.MSHTML object at 0x0507CF50>> with gesture u'down
arrow'

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "scriptHandler.pyc", line 187, in executeScript

File "cursorManager.pyc", line 209, in script_moveByLine_forward

File "cursorManager.pyc", line 139, in _caretMovementScriptHelper

File "browseMode.pyc", line 1150, in _set_selection

File "browseMode.pyc", line 1165, in _shouldSetFocusToObj

File "baseObject.pyc", line 34, in __get__

File "baseObject.pyc", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache

File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\MSHTML.pyc", line 925, in _get_isFocusable

File "comtypes\client\lazybind.pyc", line 207, in __call__

File "comtypes\automation.pyc", line 664, in _invoke

COMError: (-2147352319 <(214)%20735-2319>, None, (None, None, None, 0,
None))

ERROR - scriptHandler.executeScript (14:02:51.563):

error executing script: <bound method MSHTML.script_moveByLine_forward of
<virtualBuffers.MSHTML.MSHTML object at 0x0513E7F0>> with gesture u'down
arrow'

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "scriptHandler.pyc", line 187, in executeScript

File "cursorManager.pyc", line 209, in script_moveByLine_forward

File "cursorManager.pyc", line 139, in _caretMovementScriptHelper

File "browseMode.pyc", line 1150, in _set_selection

File "browseMode.pyc", line 1165, in _shouldSetFocusToObj

File "baseObject.pyc", line 34, in __get__

File "baseObject.pyc", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache

File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\MSHTML.pyc", line 925, in _get_isFocusable

File "comtypes\client\lazybind.pyc", line 207, in __call__

File "comtypes\automation.pyc", line 664, in _invoke





Any Way I can help resolve?



Thanks,

Sam



*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin
Christensen
*Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 5:21 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io

*Subject:* Re: [nvda] A question about non destructive errors



Oh it's definitely worth raising any situations that cause an error.
Errors which also have a negative effect for the end-user will be given a
higher priority to fix obviously, especially since error tones aren't
generated for the stable releases.



Regards


Quentin.



On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 5:17 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Hmm, I'm sure they know about this error condition, but I'm always a
little sceptical when I see errors that in the end it might be a problem
that could cause issues if you don't trap it somehow.



Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <
quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question about non destructive errors



Hi Brian,

Without being specifically familiar with this particular code, a couple of
points off the top of my head:

- Often different programs (and sometimes even the same program) will have
controls which may look and behaves exactly the same to the end user, but
underneath they work differently. This can be why some controls throw up
errors when others do not.
- Partly for the same reason, if we try and find out information a certain
way and it fails, there may be another (backup, if you like) way that we
can try which may get the same information. In that case, the control may
throw up an error, but appear to work as normal.
- My lack of familiarity with the code will show here, but the error about
CoInitialize not being called is likely because it would be usual to
initialize that prior to making a certain request. For whatever reason
that wasn't done, which may in some situations mean that the value returned
by that request may be unexpected. Whether that's a problem or not I'd
need Mick or Jamie to answer, but all that might give you a bit of an idea
to start with. Again, that's all just general off the top of my head and
without being specifically familiar with the code.

Regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 11:28 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

As quite a lot of us do use snapshot builds we do hear errors from time to
time. one of the most annoying ones I see in windows 7 is when some of the
search fields are used. There can be multiple errors as one types in and
even when the edit area is opened, yet to all intents and purposes it
seems like the control itself has worked.
Here is a log to demonstrate what I mean.

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (14:18:51.645):
Input: kb(desktop):shift+tab
IO - speech.speak (14:18:51.730):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Search Box edit Search Windows
(C:)']
DEBUG - NVDAObjects.UIA.UIATextInfo._getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
(14:18:51.732):
_getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
DEBUG - NVDAObjects.UIA.UIATextInfo._getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
(14:18:51.733):
rootElement: edit
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.733):
error executing event: gainFocus on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
File "C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\easyTableNavigat
or\globalPlugins\easyTableNavigator.py", line 82, in event_gainFocus
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
File "C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\focusHighlight\
globalPlugins\focusHighlight.py", line 427, in event_gainFocus
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
File "appModules\explorer.pyc", line 280, in event_gainFocus
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 907, in event_gainFocus
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 819, in reportFocus
File "speech.pyc", line 367, in speakObject
File "speech.pyc", line 689, in speakTextInfo
File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 584, in getTextWithFields
File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 444, in
_getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None, None,
None, 0, None))
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.740):
error executing event: caret on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 940, in event_caret
File "review.pyc", line 167, in handleCaretMove
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 973, in makeTextInfo
File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 244, in __init__
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None, None,
None, 0, None))
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.752):
error executing event: caret on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 940, in event_caret
File "review.pyc", line 167, in handleCaretMove
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 973, in makeTextInfo
File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 244, in __init__
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None, None,
None, 0, None))


This is in the master branch and has been around for quite some time now
but of course one does not hear it on the final builds.
Also quit why it refers to two add-ons which would seem to have nothing to
do with it is a mystery as well.
Just wondered why this c_inisialise or whatever is not called and why it
seems that some edit areas work while others do not.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess









--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Ph +61 7 3149 3306

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: A question about non destructive errors

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I did try to see if it was a known about error a couple of days ago on github, but this has to be the most unfriendly site in history as I lost myself and in the end had no idea what was going on. I strongly suspect this is what a web site written by software engineers looks like. grin.
Brian

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Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question about non destructive errors


Oh it's definitely worth raising any situations that cause an error.
Errors which also have a negative effect for the end-user will be given a
higher priority to fix obviously, especially since error tones aren't
generated for the stable releases.

Regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 5:17 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Hmm, I'm sure they know about this error condition, but I'm always a
little sceptical when I see errors that in the end it might be a problem
that could cause issues if you don't trap it somehow.



Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <
quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question about non destructive errors



Hi Brian,

Without being specifically familiar with this particular code, a couple of
points off the top of my head:

- Often different programs (and sometimes even the same program) will have
controls which may look and behaves exactly the same to the end user, but
underneath they work differently. This can be why some controls throw up
errors when others do not.
- Partly for the same reason, if we try and find out information a certain
way and it fails, there may be another (backup, if you like) way that we
can try which may get the same information. In that case, the control may
throw up an error, but appear to work as normal.
- My lack of familiarity with the code will show here, but the error about
CoInitialize not being called is likely because it would be usual to
initialize that prior to making a certain request. For whatever reason
that wasn't done, which may in some situations mean that the value
returned
by that request may be unexpected. Whether that's a problem or not I'd
need Mick or Jamie to answer, but all that might give you a bit of an idea
to start with. Again, that's all just general off the top of my head and
without being specifically familiar with the code.

Regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 11:28 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

As quite a lot of us do use snapshot builds we do hear errors from time to
time. one of the most annoying ones I see in windows 7 is when some of
the
search fields are used. There can be multiple errors as one types in and
even when the edit area is opened, yet to all intents and purposes it
seems like the control itself has worked.
Here is a log to demonstrate what I mean.

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (14:18:51.645):
Input: kb(desktop):shift+tab
IO - speech.speak (14:18:51.730):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Search Box edit Search
Windows
(C:)']
DEBUG - NVDAObjects.UIA.UIATextInfo._getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
(14:18:51.732):
_getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
DEBUG - NVDAObjects.UIA.UIATextInfo._getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
(14:18:51.733):
rootElement: edit
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.733):
error executing event: gainFocus on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args
of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
File "C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\easyTableNavigat
or\globalPlugins\easyTableNavigator.py", line 82, in event_gainFocus
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
File "C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\focusHighlight\
globalPlugins\focusHighlight.py", line 427, in event_gainFocus
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
File "appModules\explorer.pyc", line 280, in event_gainFocus
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 907, in event_gainFocus
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 819, in reportFocus
File "speech.pyc", line 367, in speakObject
File "speech.pyc", line 689, in speakTextInfo
File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 584, in getTextWithFields
File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 444, in
_getTextWithFieldsForUIARange
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None,
None,
None, 0, None))
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.740):
error executing event: caret on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args
of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 940, in event_caret
File "review.pyc", line 167, in handleCaretMove
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 973, in makeTextInfo
File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 244, in __init__
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None,
None,
None, 0, None))
ERROR - eventHandler.executeEvent (14:18:51.752):
error executing event: caret on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableT
extWithoutAutoSelectDetectionUIA object at 0x05C24D90> with extra args
of
{}
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 143, in executeEvent
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 91, in __init__
File "eventHandler.pyc", line 98, in next
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 940, in event_caret
File "review.pyc", line 167, in handleCaretMove
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 973, in makeTextInfo
File "NVDAObjects\UIA\__init__.pyc", line 244, in __init__
COMError: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been called.', (None,
None,
None, 0, None))


This is in the master branch and has been around for quite some time now
but of course one does not hear it on the final builds.
Also quit why it refers to two add-ons which would seem to have nothing
to
do with it is a mystery as well.
Just wondered why this c_inisialise or whatever is not called and why it
seems that some edit areas work while others do not.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: virtual review addon

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I'd suggest this would be a very slow process to do, and not very relevant if the state of the controls is changed at some times.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Kennedy" <joshknnd1982@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 10:02 PM
Subject: [nvda] virtual review addon


hi could you take virtual review one step farther? could you combine it with the OCR addon to put OCR stuff in the virtual buffer, especially if you OCR a pdf? and if possible announce that objects are clickable by hitting enter?

thanks


Josh


--
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Re: Clarification: last night's remarks, teaching style

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well Joseph, I put a post up detailing why I thought to some extent you were being a little too hard on folk. I see many people who have no interest in the tech stuff, they just want things to work. And I feel that is reasonable. having said that of course posting to a forum or list does at least tell me that they are willing to go at least part of the way to finding a solution, but it can be a very hard road if you have tried things that you consider obvious, and they don't work only to find out that a certain mega corp. has done the deed and this means changing either way you work or installing yet more software to fix it
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 9:57 PM
Subject: [nvda] Clarification: last night's remarks, teaching style


Dear NVDA community:



I have received several remarks offlist regarding my comment to Rosemarie
last night in regards to asking her what she has learned through the Mail
app problem. I'll take full responsibility of my remarks and tone, as a
practical step, I'll refrain from posting to this list for the rest of the
week (and if I have offended folks, my sincere apologies).



As for teaching style I tend to employ: perhaps my remark from last night
came as a result of my approach to teaching, which calls for students to
have willingness to think, or at least, learn to think critically by asking
tough questions, have willingness to fail in hopes of learning important
lessons, and learn from mistakes. Perhaps this came as a result of my
communication studies and argumentation training, being a member of the
competitive speech and debate squad, things I've observed on various forums
where people just believe whatever leaders say, or something else. My
overall intention for asking Rosemarie to tell me what she has learned was
to get her to think critically about what she has gone through, not just get
a problem fixed. If I say I'm satisfied with the resolution of a problem,
then this means no future preparations and applications through careful
thinking. I personally believe in a community where not only people offer
solutions, but also a venue where members can think critically, and I do
know from a decade's worth of experience on various forums that I'm thinking
of an ideal community. One thing I personally would like to see is folks
teaching novices not only the beauty of NVDA through solutions, but also
fostering a sense of taking ownership of a product and thinking about it; in
other words, I think it would be best to prepare willing novices for a time
in the future where novices themselves would become power users and teach
folks not only NVDA, but also to think carefully. Also, personally, I do not
want our NVDA community to just be called "a community of users and
developers of NVDA" - one thing that sets our community apart from others is
unity, and I think it would be beneficial in the long run to add another
title: thinking individuals.



Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: NVDA and IE11 problems

 

hi.
also you can turn off use screen layout when supported forever in brows mode.
God bless you.

On 6/20/17, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz> wrote:
Hi


you could always try the following.


when you are in internet exploder and you are focused in it try the nvda key
+ letter V.

it should say if screen layout is either on or off. I usually have mine to
off, this is a toggle and is spoken.
This also puts text and links on the same line.

the second question use the nvda key + space bar, it should toggle it
between browse mode where you can use single letter navigation keys and
focus mode where you can type.

Best bet is to find the edit areas is to use the letter E and this should
take you from where ever you are to a edit area. I usually do this from the
top of a page. the other letter I use at times is the letter F and when i
land on those areas if i do not hear it spoken as in focus mode i then use
the nvda key + space bar to do it.

If you want to hear NVDA say browse mode and focus mode take a look under
the browse mode setting in nvda and uncheck the box that says Audio
indication of focus and browse modes then tab to the ok button then give it
a whirl in the browser. if happy with how it plays then you can save your
configuration.

Gene nz


On 6/20/2017 1:37 PM, Don H wrote:
Running latest released version of NVDA on a Win 10 64 bit machine. When I
use IE 11 often times I have two issues. First is not being able to open a
link. When on a link I hit enter and get nothing.
Second I will move to a edit box and can not get NVDA in the right mode to
enter text. Tried resetting IE and did not help. Seems to happen on a
random basis on random pages.
Any help would be appreciated.
en




--
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Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material
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screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or
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People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please
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Re: OCR a Graphic

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

But don't expect miracles, it very much depends on the quality of the image and the font, how often it changes etc.
I guess a pro OCR will be better, but I have to say OCR still seems an imprecise art.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dejan Ristic" <r.dejan83@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OCR a Graphic


Hi,


Hopefully, this link helps.


https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/ocr.en.html


Cheers,
Dejan
On 6/19/2017 5:40 PM, kelby carlson wrote:
Is there a way to OCR a graphic on a webpage that contains text with NVDA?





Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

He did it behind that wall over there so you did not see it..:-)
Sorry I'm not here, honestly.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Austin Pinto" <austinpinto.xaviers@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...


oh! when you said explode i thought it would sound much worced but.
its a nice directive

On 6/19/17, Brian's Mail list account <bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Joseph, though I do understand where you are coming from and the frustration

you feel, I do honestly have sympathy with the end user who just wants a
reliable system.
Microsoft have to shoulder a good deal of the blame for what their changes
cause. I'm not suggesting in any way that they are deliberately screwing
things up here, just that they really do not test stuff enough. For people

who do not use special builds of windows, ie insiders, or nvda. I do not
think it unreasonable to expect continuity and after a while people do get
fed up with having the rug pulled from under them on a regular basis by
software makers, be that Microsoft or anyone else.
So yes, in a development environment you would be justified in being
annoyed, but when people are trying to run their lives day to day and keep
encountering stones in the road and potholes not of their own making it is,

I think understandable if people get fed up and take the easy option.
I have I know said much of this before, but like most of us, I have had to

try to help people in real life away from this place and been almost
embarrassed when you eventually track down the issue to the actual changes
in the software and nothing to do with the end user, except that he or she
happens to be blind.

I'll shut up now and be quiet, bite my lip etc for a while. I nearly bought

a new laptop last week but after reading about all the win 10 issues decided

not to bother.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:22 AM
Subject: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason

why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...


Dear NVDA community,



Disclaimer: for new community members, I'm normally not like this, but I
do
sometimes right posts I believe folks should hear, as it impacts
community
experience and what not. So my sincere apologies for letting you witness
my
explosive side. Please bear with me for a second, as it is important that

I
talk about the following regarding respecting engineers and announce a
directive for Windows 10 users:



In the blindness community (at least for members of various mailing lists
that I'm a part of or lead), I became synonymous with someone who is
willing
to show patience until the end, especially when resolving tech support
problems. But there is a hidden side to that: for certain things, I become

a
volcano, and those who've witnessed my lava flow knows what I mean.
Unfortunately, I believe it is time that I explode yet again (my
apologies
to our dear leaders for doing something like this):



Answering questions: for many situations, when resolving issues, when I
and
other engineers ask you questions in hopes of getting to the meat of the
burger. Sometimes we may ask you to tell us steps to reproduce the given
problem, what a screen reader says, and what not. When developers ask you
questions, please do your best to answer them if possible.



For Windows 10 users: there is an important reason why I wrote Windows 10
App Essentials: to prevent issues like the one Rosemarie and others have
experienced with Mail app. Hence the following directive:



Until now, it was optional for you to use Windows 10 app Essentials
add-on
if you are using Windows 10. I'll make this an important requirement
starting from fall 2017. That is, starting from September 2017, when you
report issues like the one Rosemarie has experienced, I'll no longer ask
you
to install latest WinTenApps add-on: I'll assume that you have. For
Windows
Insiders, this is a critical (and mandatory) requirement.



I'm not announcing this directive just because I feel like doing it, nor
to
increase popularity of my brainchild: Windows 10 App Essentials add-on
exists for important reasons:



* Workarounds for issues encountered by NVDA users when using Windows
10, including various UI Automation issues.
* Respond to changes in accessibility of various apps such as removing
workarounds put in place in past versions.
* Respond to app executable name changes (Microsoft has changed names
of at least three universal app executables).
* Provide essential features for Windows 10 users, including
suggestions announcement, emoji panel support (Fall Creators Update),
Edge
notification announcements and others.
* To prove to Microsoft and third-party universal app developers that
accessibility should be a core design criteria for apps, including
letting
screen reader users use apps to their full potential.



Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph





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