Date   

Re: using physical mouse with nvda?

 

Well, I'll disagree that it's pointless for someone who's totally blind to use the mouse with NVDA (or their finger on a laptop or all-in-one touch screen) to get a "quick and dirty" idea of what's on a given screen, particularly a webpage.

I've used that concept with a number of my clients who are trying to do web research and need to make quick decisions about whether a given webpage is something they need to dig in to further or can just chuck and move along to the next thing.  You can very often get a very good idea, and very quickly, about what's on a page using mouse navigation that's far more tedious to accomplish by looking at, say, the list of links on a page, of which there are always scads more "junk links" than content links and that a screen reader has to present, but that are strategically placed on a screen, usually at the very top margin or very bottom
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Hebrew TTS

Mark Sanders
 

Pronunciation not really an issue here! Israeli Hebrew pronunciation would do for virtually all purposes.

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 at 15:32, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...> wrote:
Yeah... that's kind of what I suspected.
 
Thanks for clearing that up.
 
Shalom lecha.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Rui Fontes
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Hebrew TTS

Vocalizer Expressive only have the modern hebrew.

Rui Fontes


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Quentin Christensen
Data: 20 de julho de 2017 02:21
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] Hebrew TTS


Good question Christopher, without knowing, I would have assumed modern (is
that what Vocalizer supports?  It doesn't say, it just lists "Hebrew").



On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland
<clgilland07@...> wrote:

We gotta be careful here.

Are they wanting the modern hebrew, or more biblical hebrew. Yes. The
pronounciation is quite different in many ways, and it's different just
enough to really screw you up, if you're not careful.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

----- Original Message -----
From: Quentin Christensen
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 8:28 PM
Subject: [nvda] Hebrew TTS

Hi everyone,

I've had an enquiry about using NVDA in Hebrew.  I know the interface is
translated to Hebrew, but the default eSpeak NG synthesizer we use doesn't
support Hebrew.  The commercial Vocalizer synthesizer supports Hebrew, but
is anyone familiar with any other synthesizers which support Hebrew?

Kind regards

Quentin.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/


Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess











--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/


Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
 




Re: using physical mouse with nvda?

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Quentin,

 

I agree with you and Gene about using the physical mouse with NVDA. I tried using the mouse one time and it was very difficult. I think you'd almost have to have a little bit of vision to be able to use a mouse.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 10:47 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

As Gene noted, there is little reason for a totally blind user to use the mouse, both because without being able to see where you are moving, it is very hard to get it exactly where you need, and often it is easier to use the keyboard to jump to particular elements.

 

If there is a specific page you are having trouble accessing that you can post the URL for here, I can have a look and try and give some pointers.


We do have a few low vision users who might have enough sight to use the mouse to get to a particular page and point on a page, but then rely on NVDA to read the text.  NVDA can read the text under the mouse pointer.  Press NVDA+m to toggle mouse tracking on or off - when on, it will read the text under the mouse pointer as you move the mouse.


The review cursor and object navigation can often be used to get to parts of the screen that regular navigation may not work with, and there are NVDA commands to click the left or right mouse buttons, but usually these are used as workarounds when other navigation fails in a particular instance.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I'll give you my perspective as a blind user who hasn't used a physical mouse.  Perhaps some people will disagree, I don't know.  But my comments may help clarify matters or lead to more clarifying discussion. 

 

I suspect that you are trying to use the mouse in ways that are not intended by NVDA designers.  For example, in all the years I've been on this list, I've never heard of blind users using the scroll wheel.  I've heard of people moving around the screen with a mouse to get the layout.  If you want to use the mouse to get an idea of how a screen is laid out, that can evidently be done.  but NVDA is intended for blind users primarily to be used from the keyboardwhen using browse mode.  You are not interacting with a web page directly when you use browse mode.  You are interacting with a reformatted version of the page in the MSAA or whatever it's called now, buffer.  The whole point is to move as though there is a cursor using the keyboard.  I've been told by a friend that sighted relatives and readers can't use the Internet while her screen-reader is active because the virtual PC cursor, the same thing as browse mode, makes usual ways of doing things, such as scrolling, however it is attempted with a mouse, not work.  I've heard of numerous instances where blind people move around one screen, the current one, when using a browser and a mouse.  But that's very different than scrolling.  You could probably scroll if you turn off browse mode but what's the point?  You can't read as intended with a screen-reader if you do that. 

 

In other programs, such as Microsoft Word or programs that don't use browse mode, I would imagine you could scroll.  But again, why?  I've wondered now and then, if I've found a control I can't work with on an Internet page from the keyboard if I could do so by using a mouse to click on it.  But that's completely different from scrolling and trying somehow to read with a mouse.  

 

One question is what it makes sense to do with a physical mouse as a blind person and another question is technically, in browse mode, what can you do not just with NVDA but with any screen-reader that uses browse mode?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: The Wolf

Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

 

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer

 

On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Interesting, which program are you referring to?

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank

On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Hank,

 

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

 

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

 

Regards


Quentin.

 

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank






 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Error message

Gene
 

Control NVDA key r doesn't open anything.  If you have changed settings in NVDA and not permanently saved the changes, control NVDA key r reverts NVDA to the permanently saved settings.
 
I don't know what voice you are using now.  Assumedly, since the voice you are trying to use isn't being allowed to run, the voice now in your permanently saved settings is reading the message.  Control NVDA key r only might help if, for some reason, you tried to load a voice and it didn't load properly, resulting in you loosing speech.  Since you hadn't yet made the new voice permanent, control NVDA key r would revert to the old voice because it reverts to the permanently saved settings. 
 
The first answer said that if the voice is restricted, only allowed to read with a certain program, then you can't use it with NVDA.  Is this an unrestricted voice that you purchased to be able to run with any program that can run it?  If so, considering the lack of responses, it sounds as though its time to call technical support.  You may have to go into the actual voice program itself and authorize it.  It sounds as though you are ggetting an error message that the voice needs to be authorized but it's just an error message.  It doesn't offer fields you can use to authorize the voice.  it is just an information message about what the problem is.  That's how it sounds to me.  You may need to call techhnical support to verify that and find out how to authorize the voice from within the voice software. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Error message

Do you have any other suggestions? I tried what you said, but it did not work. Every time I hit any key, the error message window keeps popping open. When I click the, OK button, on the window, it eventually goes away. No matter how quickly I hit the NVDA+ctrl+r, it will not open up the interface window.

Darrin Reid

On Jul 19, 2017, at 8:50 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:

Hi Darrin,

It sounds like you are trying to use a TTS voice which is licensed to another program?  NVDA will let you use any standard SAPI TTS and many others, but some voices are locked to specific programs.  If you are trying to use a TTS voice you got with another program, it may not work with NVDA, even though NVDA will let you select it.  In that case, you need to choose another voice.  If you get stuck, press NVDA+control+r to restore the saved configuration or NVDA+control+r three times quickly to restore NVDA to factory default settings (note that uninstalling and reinstalling NVDA won't fix this as the configuration settings are not deleted).

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 5:57 AM, Darrin Reid via Groups.Io <dkr1717@...> wrote:
This is the error message that I am getting. It is preventing me from using the application. I am working on a windows 10 desktop. How do I fix the following message.
"you need a password to use this true voice speech

Once I click on the, OK button, I never get the opportunity to put in a password. Every time I launch the program, this is the error message that I keep getting. Please, help! engine"

Darrin Reid






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Error message

Darrin Reid
 

Do you have any other suggestions? I tried what you said, but it did not work. Every time I hit any key, the error message window keeps popping open. When I click the, OK button, on the window, it eventually goes away. No matter how quickly I hit the NVDA+ctrl+r, it will not open up the interface window.

Darrin Reid

On Jul 19, 2017, at 8:50 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:

Hi Darrin,

It sounds like you are trying to use a TTS voice which is licensed to another program?  NVDA will let you use any standard SAPI TTS and many others, but some voices are locked to specific programs.  If you are trying to use a TTS voice you got with another program, it may not work with NVDA, even though NVDA will let you select it.  In that case, you need to choose another voice.  If you get stuck, press NVDA+control+r to restore the saved configuration or NVDA+control+r three times quickly to restore NVDA to factory default settings (note that uninstalling and reinstalling NVDA won't fix this as the configuration settings are not deleted).

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 5:57 AM, Darrin Reid via Groups.Io <dkr1717@...> wrote:
This is the error message that I am getting. It is preventing me from using the application. I am working on a windows 10 desktop. How do I fix the following message.
"you need a password to use this true voice speech

Once I click on the, OK button, I never get the opportunity to put in a password. Every time I launch the program, this is the error message that I keep getting. Please, help! engine"

Darrin Reid






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Magnifiers and NVDA

Bill Sallander <bsallander@...>
 

I won’t see the client till next week, but I will try all of these suggestions and see which one might fit.

That is the beauty of NVDA, it is a quick, easy and yet powerful solution and it doesn’t break the bank.

Thanks to all.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 9:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Magnifiers and NVDA

 

Hi Bill,

 

Firstly welcome aboard!  As Brandon noted, NVDA shouldn't conflict with any of the popular magnifiers, so if you want to run NVDA with Zoomtext, the only issues should be any keystrokes which both programs use (from memory, both use the number pad for different things?)

 

If using Windows 7 or later, then WINDOWS+PLUS will get you into the Windows magnifier (use windows+plus to enlarge magnification, windows+minus to decrease magnification, control+alt+i to invert the colours, and there are a few commands if you don't want to use full screen you can change modes, though to be honest, I used to do a similar job to you and in 12 years, I didn't encounter more than a handful of people who preferred a screen magnification mode other than full screen).  Note that if using Windows 7, you want to set the magnifier settings to follow the keyboard and focus (for some reason it didn't by default though it now does in Windows 10).

 

Another free option with a few more settings is Glass Brick: http://www.glassbrick.org/

 

And another thing a visual user might find helpful, is one of our add-ons called "Focus Highlight".  It works much like the similar Zoomtext feature in putting a box around what NVDA is currently reading: https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/focusHighlight.en.html

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

Theoretically, they shouldn't be mutually exclusive, NVDA doesn't touch the vidio drivers like Jaws does, its just a matter of finding out whether there are conflicts in the command sets between the two and tailoring a custom configuration to neutralize those conflicts, should any exist. You could also make a manually triggering configuration profile that your client can start if he or she runs zoomtext with NVDA, and stops when using NVDA on its own.

 

Question though, will windows magnifier not meet their needs?



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Magnifiers and NVDA

Bill Sallander <bsallander@...>
 

At this point, I’m just on a fact finding mission. The next time I see the client, I’ll have to see if it will work or if higher magnification is needed.

In short, I’m trying to find the cheapest solution so they can get up and running.

Thanks for the advice.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brandon Cross
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 8:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Magnifiers and NVDA

 

Theoretically, they shouldn't be mutually exclusive, NVDA doesn't touch the vidio drivers like Jaws does, its just a matter of finding out whether there are conflicts in the command sets between the two and tailoring a custom configuration to neutralize those conflicts, should any exist. You could also make a manually triggering configuration profile that your client can start if he or she runs zoomtext with NVDA, and stops when using NVDA on its own.

 

Question though, will windows magnifier not meet their needs?


Re: Hebrew TTS

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


Yeah... that's kind of what I suspected.
 
Thanks for clearing that up.
 
Shalom lecha.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Rui Fontes
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Hebrew TTS

Vocalizer Expressive only have the modern hebrew.

Rui Fontes


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Quentin Christensen
Data: 20 de julho de 2017 02:21
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] Hebrew TTS


Good question Christopher, without knowing, I would have assumed modern (is
that what Vocalizer supports?  It doesn't say, it just lists "Hebrew").



On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland
<clgilland07@...> wrote:

We gotta be careful here.

Are they wanting the modern hebrew, or more biblical hebrew. Yes. The
pronounciation is quite different in many ways, and it's different just
enough to really screw you up, if you're not careful.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

----- Original Message -----
From: Quentin Christensen
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 8:28 PM
Subject: [nvda] Hebrew TTS

Hi everyone,

I've had an enquiry about using NVDA in Hebrew.  I know the interface is
translated to Hebrew, but the default eSpeak NG synthesizer we use doesn't
support Hebrew.  The commercial Vocalizer synthesizer supports Hebrew, but
is anyone familiar with any other synthesizers which support Hebrew?

Kind regards

Quentin.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/


Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess











--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/


Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
 




Re: Latest Windows update has put an annoying sound for message deletion

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

What client is this using, or does that matter?
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 4:28 AM
Subject: [nvda] Latest Windows update has put an annoying sound for message deletion

Hi, Quentin,

 

I received an automatic update to my Windows 10 last night and now there is an annoying descending sound every time I delete a message in my Inbox. This was silent yesterday and I cannot find how to turn it off! It is not the warning for permanently deleting messages. I turned that off and it made no difference.

 

The sound also comes when I delete text from within a message.

 

The sound is interfering with NVDA and is most annoying. Any ideas?

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

 


Re: using physical mouse with nvda?

Gene
 

What is the default for just pressing the power button in Windows.  It's been so long since I've checked that I don't remember.  If the default is to shut down, theen just using the power buitton would have shut down the computer and you could then have booted again.  Much faster and more efficient than using the mouse.  There may be the occasion when using a physical mouse is the only or best means of doing something, but seldom.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

Ok that's a good use, well done!  I meant that it isn't usually the most efficient method of navigation.  Obviously in your case tonight, there weren't many other alternatives (short of having a spare keyboard lying around).

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 7:27 PM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Hi all,

Just tonight, my keyboard quit working on my laptop. I was able to move the mouse pointer with NVDA and right click on the start button, and I could use my touch pad until I heard NVDA say power, and I left clicked on that, and I was able to restart my computer. I did all of that with moving the mouse when the keyboard would not work. When my computer came back on, my key board worked great! So, I think that is a pretty good example of how I was able to move the mouse pointer around to get the job done. I practice a lot moving my fingers around the touch pad, and I can move the mouse to places where no keyboard commands will move the mouse pointer. I do not agree that totally blind users cannot benefit by using the mouse feature in NVDA and Narrator.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:47 AM


To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

As Gene noted, there is little reason for a totally blind user to use the mouse, both because without being able to see where you are moving, it is very hard to get it exactly where you need, and often it is easier to use the keyboard to jump to particular elements.

 

If there is a specific page you are having trouble accessing that you can post the URL for here, I can have a look and try and give some pointers.


We do have a few low vision users who might have enough sight to use the mouse to get to a particular page and point on a page, but then rely on NVDA to read the text.  NVDA can read the text under the mouse pointer.  Press NVDA+m to toggle mouse tracking on or off - when on, it will read the text under the mouse pointer as you move the mouse.


The review cursor and object navigation can often be used to get to parts of the screen that regular navigation may not work with, and there are NVDA commands to click the left or right mouse buttons, but usually these are used as workarounds when other navigation fails in a particular instance.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I'll give you my perspective as a blind user who hasn't used a physical mouse.  Perhaps some people will disagree, I don't know.  But my comments may help clarify matters or lead to more clarifying discussion. 

 

I suspect that you are trying to use the mouse in ways that are not intended by NVDA designers.  For example, in all the years I've been on this list, I've never heard of blind users using the scroll wheel.  I've heard of people moving around the screen with a mouse to get the layout.  If you want to use the mouse to get an idea of how a screen is laid out, that can evidently be done.  but NVDA is intended for blind users primarily to be used from the keyboardwhen using browse mode.  You are not interacting with a web page directly when you use browse mode.  You are interacting with a reformatted version of the page in the MSAA or whatever it's called now, buffer.  The whole point is to move as though there is a cursor using the keyboard.  I've been told by a friend that sighted relatives and readers can't use the Internet while her screen-reader is active because the virtual PC cursor, the same thing as browse mode, makes usual ways of doing things, such as scrolling, however it is attempted with a mouse, not work.  I've heard of numerous instances where blind people move around one screen, the current one, when using a browser and a mouse.  But that's very different than scrolling.  You could probably scroll if you turn off browse mode but what's the point?  You can't read as intended with a screen-reader if you do that. 

 

In other programs, such as Microsoft Word or programs that don't use browse mode, I would imagine you could scroll.  But again, why?  I've wondered now and then, if I've found a control I can't work with on an Internet page from the keyboard if I could do so by using a mouse to click on it.  But that's completely different from scrolling and trying somehow to read with a mouse.  

 

One question is what it makes sense to do with a physical mouse as a blind person and another question is technically, in browse mode, what can you do not just with NVDA but with any screen-reader that uses browse mode?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: The Wolf

Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

 

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer

 

On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Interesting, which program are you referring to?

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank

On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Hank,

 

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

 

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

 

Regards


Quentin.

 

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank






 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: using physical mouse with nvda?

Quentin Christensen
 

Ok that's a good use, well done!  I meant that it isn't usually the most efficient method of navigation.  Obviously in your case tonight, there weren't many other alternatives (short of having a spare keyboard lying around).

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 7:27 PM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Hi all,

Just tonight, my keyboard quit working on my laptop. I was able to move the mouse pointer with NVDA and right click on the start button, and I could use my touch pad until I heard NVDA say power, and I left clicked on that, and I was able to restart my computer. I did all of that with moving the mouse when the keyboard would not work. When my computer came back on, my key board worked great! So, I think that is a pretty good example of how I was able to move the mouse pointer around to get the job done. I practice a lot moving my fingers around the touch pad, and I can move the mouse to places where no keyboard commands will move the mouse pointer. I do not agree that totally blind users cannot benefit by using the mouse feature in NVDA and Narrator.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:47 AM


To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

As Gene noted, there is little reason for a totally blind user to use the mouse, both because without being able to see where you are moving, it is very hard to get it exactly where you need, and often it is easier to use the keyboard to jump to particular elements.

 

If there is a specific page you are having trouble accessing that you can post the URL for here, I can have a look and try and give some pointers.


We do have a few low vision users who might have enough sight to use the mouse to get to a particular page and point on a page, but then rely on NVDA to read the text.  NVDA can read the text under the mouse pointer.  Press NVDA+m to toggle mouse tracking on or off - when on, it will read the text under the mouse pointer as you move the mouse.


The review cursor and object navigation can often be used to get to parts of the screen that regular navigation may not work with, and there are NVDA commands to click the left or right mouse buttons, but usually these are used as workarounds when other navigation fails in a particular instance.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I'll give you my perspective as a blind user who hasn't used a physical mouse.  Perhaps some people will disagree, I don't know.  But my comments may help clarify matters or lead to more clarifying discussion. 

 

I suspect that you are trying to use the mouse in ways that are not intended by NVDA designers.  For example, in all the years I've been on this list, I've never heard of blind users using the scroll wheel.  I've heard of people moving around the screen with a mouse to get the layout.  If you want to use the mouse to get an idea of how a screen is laid out, that can evidently be done.  but NVDA is intended for blind users primarily to be used from the keyboardwhen using browse mode.  You are not interacting with a web page directly when you use browse mode.  You are interacting with a reformatted version of the page in the MSAA or whatever it's called now, buffer.  The whole point is to move as though there is a cursor using the keyboard.  I've been told by a friend that sighted relatives and readers can't use the Internet while her screen-reader is active because the virtual PC cursor, the same thing as browse mode, makes usual ways of doing things, such as scrolling, however it is attempted with a mouse, not work.  I've heard of numerous instances where blind people move around one screen, the current one, when using a browser and a mouse.  But that's very different than scrolling.  You could probably scroll if you turn off browse mode but what's the point?  You can't read as intended with a screen-reader if you do that. 

 

In other programs, such as Microsoft Word or programs that don't use browse mode, I would imagine you could scroll.  But again, why?  I've wondered now and then, if I've found a control I can't work with on an Internet page from the keyboard if I could do so by using a mouse to click on it.  But that's completely different from scrolling and trying somehow to read with a mouse.  

 

One question is what it makes sense to do with a physical mouse as a blind person and another question is technically, in browse mode, what can you do not just with NVDA but with any screen-reader that uses browse mode?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: The Wolf

Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

 

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer

 

On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Interesting, which program are you referring to?

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank

On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Hank,

 

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

 

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

 

Regards


Quentin.

 

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank






 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Latest Windows update has put an annoying sound for message deletion

Chris
 

If you mean Microsoft office then you can change this in control panel > sounds > sound tab under Microsoft office tree

 

 

 


Re: Hebrew TTS

Rui Fontes
 

Vocalizer Expressive only have the modern hebrew.

Rui Fontes


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Quentin Christensen
Data: 20 de julho de 2017 02:21
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] Hebrew TTS


Good question Christopher, without knowing, I would have assumed modern (is that what Vocalizer supports? It doesn't say, it just lists "Hebrew").

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...> wrote:

We gotta be careful here.

Are they wanting the modern hebrew, or more biblical hebrew. Yes. The pronounciation is quite different in many ways, and it's different just enough to really screw you up, if you're not careful.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

----- Original Message -----
From: Quentin Christensen
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 8:28 PM
Subject: [nvda] Hebrew TTS

Hi everyone,

I've had an enquiry about using NVDA in Hebrew. I know the interface is translated to Hebrew, but the default eSpeak NG synthesizer we use doesn't support Hebrew. The commercial Vocalizer synthesizer supports Hebrew, but is anyone familiar with any other synthesizers which support Hebrew?

Kind regards

Quentin.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/


Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess











--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/


Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: NVDA and the Online Bible

Jim Noseworthy
 

Hey Leonard:

 

Thanks all over the place.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Leonard de Ruijter
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and the Online Bible

 

Hey,

 

I will try to investigate this in the weekend. As JAWS is able to read stuff from it just fine (and I was able to operate it using SuperNova as well), it shouldn't be that hard.


Regards,
Leonard

On 19-7-2017 22:03, Jim Noseworthy wrote:

 

I am the JAWS support person for Online Bible but I have a client who wishes to use NVDA. It just doesn’t work with NVDA.

 

Cheers.

.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Leonard de Ruijter
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 4:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and the Online Bible

 

Hello,

 

I've been working with online Bible a lot in the past, however that was back when I was using JAWS. Is there a particular reason why you belief you're in need of an add-on?


Regards,
Leonard

On 19-7-2017 21:01, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Bible Seeker from the below address is very good with NVDA.  The site has over a dozen bible translations and the search is accessible.  They say the latest version is 2.03 from 2017. I don't know why that is.  I have 2.03 from 2015.  I would assume it's the same program.  The size for download is the same.

http://bible_seeker.en.downloadastro.com/

 

 

On 7/19/2017 2:23 PM, Jim Noseworthy wrote:

Hi Gang:

 

Is there an NVDA add-on for the Online Bible?  If not, can anyone recommend a good off-line Bible that would work with NVDA?

 

Thanks all over the place gang.

 

 




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

 

 


Re: mail app not opening

The Gamages
 

Hello,

I have always found the fact that Microsoft does things in Windows ten
without giving us the chance of declining changes a real pain, every
major update has brought more niggles and most have been to do with
accessibility in some respect, Microsoft give scant attention to
accessability.
I used to think it was my system, but I have heard so many others
finding odd things happening that I feel that Microsoft have not given
us much
thought with their intrusive attitude to our systems, I am glad that my
main system is still Windows seven and my Windows ten is just for
experimentation.
I did try to ignore the creators update, but it got me in the end
without my permission.


Best Regards, Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 7:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] mail app not opening

Well I use Outlook Express but it did work in 10, but when a major
update is
due you have to reinstall it as Microsoft don't like you using it.
I don't know if Live mail is affected in the same way.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] mail app not opening


I don't have Windows 10. As far as I know, the only problem with using
Windows Live Mail in Windows 10 is that when writing messages or
replying,
etc. you can't read what you have written unless you leave and return to
the
window. This can be done very conveniently and quickly by pressing alt
to
move to the ribbons, then pressing alt again to move back to the window
you
were in. I can't say whether the app is worth using. I've never used
it so
I don't know how it compares in terms of convenience.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: The Gamages
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 8:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] mail app not opening


Hello,

Since the anniversary edition, [I believe], my mail app is not opening,
I
believe there is a fairly simple way of sorting this by deleting the app
data, however, the mail app does not appear in my app data, any ideas
please?

All was working and then stopped , mind you the calander part of it didn’t
seem to work.
Is it worth persevering with this, iif not, is anyone still using Live
mail
with Windows ten?
Comments appreciated.
Best Regards, Jim.


Re: using physical mouse with nvda?

David Moore
 

Did you read my example of shutting down my computer with the mouse, because my keyboard did not work until I restarted it?

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Dennis L
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 5:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

I agree it is pointless.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

As Gene noted, there is little reason for a totally blind user to use the mouse, both because without being able to see where you are moving, it is very hard to get it exactly where you need, and often it is easier to use the keyboard to jump to particular elements.

 

If there is a specific page you are having trouble accessing that you can post the URL for here, I can have a look and try and give some pointers.


We do have a few low vision users who might have enough sight to use the mouse to get to a particular page and point on a page, but then rely on NVDA to read the text.  NVDA can read the text under the mouse pointer.  Press NVDA+m to toggle mouse tracking on or off - when on, it will read the text under the mouse pointer as you move the mouse.


The review cursor and object navigation can often be used to get to parts of the screen that regular navigation may not work with, and there are NVDA commands to click the left or right mouse buttons, but usually these are used as workarounds when other navigation fails in a particular instance.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I'll give you my perspective as a blind user who hasn't used a physical mouse.  Perhaps some people will disagree, I don't know.  But my comments may help clarify matters or lead to more clarifying discussion. 

 

I suspect that you are trying to use the mouse in ways that are not intended by NVDA designers.  For example, in all the years I've been on this list, I've never heard of blind users using the scroll wheel.  I've heard of people moving around the screen with a mouse to get the layout.  If you want to use the mouse to get an idea of how a screen is laid out, that can evidently be done.  but NVDA is intended for blind users primarily to be used from the keyboardwhen using browse mode.  You are not interacting with a web page directly when you use browse mode.  You are interacting with a reformatted version of the page in the MSAA or whatever it's called now, buffer.  The whole point is to move as though there is a cursor using the keyboard.  I've been told by a friend that sighted relatives and readers can't use the Internet while her screen-reader is active because the virtual PC cursor, the same thing as browse mode, makes usual ways of doing things, such as scrolling, however it is attempted with a mouse, not work.  I've heard of numerous instances where blind people move around one screen, the current one, when using a browser and a mouse.  But that's very different than scrolling.  You could probably scroll if you turn off browse mode but what's the point?  You can't read as intended with a screen-reader if you do that. 

 

In other programs, such as Microsoft Word or programs that don't use browse mode, I would imagine you could scroll.  But again, why?  I've wondered now and then, if I've found a control I can't work with on an Internet page from the keyboard if I could do so by using a mouse to click on it.  But that's completely different from scrolling and trying somehow to read with a mouse.  

 

One question is what it makes sense to do with a physical mouse as a blind person and another question is technically, in browse mode, what can you do not just with NVDA but with any screen-reader that uses browse mode?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: The Wolf

Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

 

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer

 

On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Interesting, which program are you referring to?

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank

On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Hank,

 

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

 

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

 

Regards


Quentin.

 

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank





 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 


Re: using physical mouse with nvda?

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

I agree it is pointless.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

As Gene noted, there is little reason for a totally blind user to use the mouse, both because without being able to see where you are moving, it is very hard to get it exactly where you need, and often it is easier to use the keyboard to jump to particular elements.

 

If there is a specific page you are having trouble accessing that you can post the URL for here, I can have a look and try and give some pointers.


We do have a few low vision users who might have enough sight to use the mouse to get to a particular page and point on a page, but then rely on NVDA to read the text.  NVDA can read the text under the mouse pointer.  Press NVDA+m to toggle mouse tracking on or off - when on, it will read the text under the mouse pointer as you move the mouse.


The review cursor and object navigation can often be used to get to parts of the screen that regular navigation may not work with, and there are NVDA commands to click the left or right mouse buttons, but usually these are used as workarounds when other navigation fails in a particular instance.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I'll give you my perspective as a blind user who hasn't used a physical mouse.  Perhaps some people will disagree, I don't know.  But my comments may help clarify matters or lead to more clarifying discussion. 

 

I suspect that you are trying to use the mouse in ways that are not intended by NVDA designers.  For example, in all the years I've been on this list, I've never heard of blind users using the scroll wheel.  I've heard of people moving around the screen with a mouse to get the layout.  If you want to use the mouse to get an idea of how a screen is laid out, that can evidently be done.  but NVDA is intended for blind users primarily to be used from the keyboardwhen using browse mode.  You are not interacting with a web page directly when you use browse mode.  You are interacting with a reformatted version of the page in the MSAA or whatever it's called now, buffer.  The whole point is to move as though there is a cursor using the keyboard.  I've been told by a friend that sighted relatives and readers can't use the Internet while her screen-reader is active because the virtual PC cursor, the same thing as browse mode, makes usual ways of doing things, such as scrolling, however it is attempted with a mouse, not work.  I've heard of numerous instances where blind people move around one screen, the current one, when using a browser and a mouse.  But that's very different than scrolling.  You could probably scroll if you turn off browse mode but what's the point?  You can't read as intended with a screen-reader if you do that. 

 

In other programs, such as Microsoft Word or programs that don't use browse mode, I would imagine you could scroll.  But again, why?  I've wondered now and then, if I've found a control I can't work with on an Internet page from the keyboard if I could do so by using a mouse to click on it.  But that's completely different from scrolling and trying somehow to read with a mouse.  

 

One question is what it makes sense to do with a physical mouse as a blind person and another question is technically, in browse mode, what can you do not just with NVDA but with any screen-reader that uses browse mode?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: The Wolf

Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

 

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer

 

On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Interesting, which program are you referring to?

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank

On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Hank,

 

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

 

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

 

Regards


Quentin.

 

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank






 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: using physical mouse with nvda?

David Moore
 

Hi all,

Just tonight, my keyboard quit working on my laptop. I was able to move the mouse pointer with NVDA and right click on the start button, and I could use my touch pad until I heard NVDA say power, and I left clicked on that, and I was able to restart my computer. I did all of that with moving the mouse when the keyboard would not work. When my computer came back on, my key board worked great! So, I think that is a pretty good example of how I was able to move the mouse pointer around to get the job done. I practice a lot moving my fingers around the touch pad, and I can move the mouse to places where no keyboard commands will move the mouse pointer. I do not agree that totally blind users cannot benefit by using the mouse feature in NVDA and Narrator.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

As Gene noted, there is little reason for a totally blind user to use the mouse, both because without being able to see where you are moving, it is very hard to get it exactly where you need, and often it is easier to use the keyboard to jump to particular elements.

 

If there is a specific page you are having trouble accessing that you can post the URL for here, I can have a look and try and give some pointers.


We do have a few low vision users who might have enough sight to use the mouse to get to a particular page and point on a page, but then rely on NVDA to read the text.  NVDA can read the text under the mouse pointer.  Press NVDA+m to toggle mouse tracking on or off - when on, it will read the text under the mouse pointer as you move the mouse.


The review cursor and object navigation can often be used to get to parts of the screen that regular navigation may not work with, and there are NVDA commands to click the left or right mouse buttons, but usually these are used as workarounds when other navigation fails in a particular instance.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I'll give you my perspective as a blind user who hasn't used a physical mouse.  Perhaps some people will disagree, I don't know.  But my comments may help clarify matters or lead to more clarifying discussion. 

 

I suspect that you are trying to use the mouse in ways that are not intended by NVDA designers.  For example, in all the years I've been on this list, I've never heard of blind users using the scroll wheel.  I've heard of people moving around the screen with a mouse to get the layout.  If you want to use the mouse to get an idea of how a screen is laid out, that can evidently be done.  but NVDA is intended for blind users primarily to be used from the keyboardwhen using browse mode.  You are not interacting with a web page directly when you use browse mode.  You are interacting with a reformatted version of the page in the MSAA or whatever it's called now, buffer.  The whole point is to move as though there is a cursor using the keyboard.  I've been told by a friend that sighted relatives and readers can't use the Internet while her screen-reader is active because the virtual PC cursor, the same thing as browse mode, makes usual ways of doing things, such as scrolling, however it is attempted with a mouse, not work.  I've heard of numerous instances where blind people move around one screen, the current one, when using a browser and a mouse.  But that's very different than scrolling.  You could probably scroll if you turn off browse mode but what's the point?  You can't read as intended with a screen-reader if you do that. 

 

In other programs, such as Microsoft Word or programs that don't use browse mode, I would imagine you could scroll.  But again, why?  I've wondered now and then, if I've found a control I can't work with on an Internet page from the keyboard if I could do so by using a mouse to click on it.  But that's completely different from scrolling and trying somehow to read with a mouse.  

 

One question is what it makes sense to do with a physical mouse as a blind person and another question is technically, in browse mode, what can you do not just with NVDA but with any screen-reader that uses browse mode?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: The Wolf

Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

 

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer

 

On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Interesting, which program are you referring to?

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank

On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Hank,

 

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

 

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

 

Regards


Quentin.

 

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank






 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 


Re: Latest Windows update has put an annoying sound for message deletion

Brian's Mail list account
 

Is this on the mail app itself have they actually changed a sound that was always there but like silent?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 9:28 AM
Subject: [nvda] Latest Windows update has put an annoying sound for message deletion


Hi, Quentin,



I received an automatic update to my Windows 10 last night and now there is
an annoying descending sound every time I delete a message in my Inbox. This
was silent yesterday and I cannot find how to turn it off! It is not the
warning for permanently deleting messages. I turned that off and it made no
difference.



The sound also comes when I delete text from within a message.



The sound is interfering with NVDA and is most annoying. Any ideas?

All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...








Latest Windows update has put an annoying sound for message deletion

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Hi, Quentin,

 

I received an automatic update to my Windows 10 last night and now there is an annoying descending sound every time I delete a message in my Inbox. This was silent yesterday and I cannot find how to turn it off! It is not the warning for permanently deleting messages. I turned that off and it made no difference.

 

The sound also comes when I delete text from within a message.

 

The sound is interfering with NVDA and is most annoying. Any ideas?

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...