George, I think QRead reads pdf files but I don't know about preserving formats.
At 10:04 PM 7/21/2017, you wrote:

Thanks very much for the great suggestions, everydody. I’ll check them all out and see if any of them eet my needs.

Georgwe

*From:* George McCoy <mailto:slr1bpz@charter.net>
*Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2017 3:33 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] .pdf readers

Is there a pdf reader other than Adobe Reader that works with NVDA? I need one that preserves the document format including indentions.
Visual inspection of the documents in Adobe Reader reveals that they contain indented lines but NVDA says that all lines are at the left margin.
I converted the document to various formats with three different converters and in no case does the output show indented lines.

Thanks very much,
George

John

Thanks very much for the great suggestions, everydody.  I’ll check them all out and see if any of them eet my needs.
 
Georgwe
 
From: George McCoy
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 3:33 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] .pdf readers
 
Is there a pdf reader other than Adobe Reader that works with NVDA?  I need one that preserves the document format including indentions.
Visual inspection of the documents in Adobe Reader reveals that they contain indented lines but NVDA says that all lines are at the left margin.
I converted the document to various formats with three different converters and in no case does the output show indented lines.
 
Thanks very much,
George

                 John

thanks for good news joseph and brian.
do you continue supporting of xp?
i became worried when i read the message for the first time.
God bless you all!

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Sounds sensible. At least this will preserve xp etc with the old Python
for

as long as possible. One thing you do not say, which may be obvious to
you,

but perhaps not to the average user is..
What are the reasons for change.
is it that its going to be faster, 64 bit or has better ways of doing
stuff

nvda needs to be able to do in the future?
Obviously not in your remit is that at some point an agreed last working
version of the old NVDA that can work on xp etc is going to have to be
made

available and then when add ons are updated, those that will and won't
run
on the old version will need to be noted and if possible trapped by the
old

version so it cannot be scrambled by an add on.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:55 AM
Subject: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base,
dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

Ladies and gentlemen,



Some of you have been asking NV Access and the global NVDA community
regarding porting NVDA source code and dependencies to Python 3. I and
some
contributors have been brainstorming best ways to accomplish this, and
NV
Access, contributors, some add-on writers, users, and NVDA observers
agree
that it is important that we look into eventually porting NVDA to Python
3.



Until recently, the possibility of moving NVDA to Python 3 seemed to be
only
a dream. However, a major hurdle was overcome earlier this year when
wxPython 4 alpha was released, promising support for Python versions 2.7
and
3.x. Apart from a major problem regarding certain internal routines from
wxPython 4 that may not be compatible with NVDA source code, the stage
is
almost set to begin our transition to Python 3, dubbed "Project
Pylennium".



Project Pylennium is a new project I'm planning and working on that
should
make it easier for NV Access, code contributors, add-on writers, users
and
many others to experience smooth transition to Python 3. The overall
goal

of
this project is to prepare NVDA's source code so it can run on both
Python

2
and 3 in most cases until developers are ready to move on. This project
also
seeks to uncover possible compatibility issues for NVDA community when
the
transition happens, and to document these findings so it can serve as
guidelines to current and future developers.



The current iteration of Project Pylennium (based on NVDA GitHub issue
7105
as a roadmap) can be found on my copy of NVDA source code at:

https://github.com/josephsl/nvda

The branch to use is "py3000".



Project pylennium involves the following:



1. Gather dependencies required for Python 3 transition, such as newer
versions of Python, ConfigObj and many others. A crucial dependency is
the
Six module, which adds compatibility layer functions for both Python 2
and
3.
2. Document porting notes, which will eventually be published on our
NVDA Community wiki.
3. Create source-level compatibility layer in order to mitigate changes
in module names, standard library folder structure, function and class
names
and so on.
4. Migrate most code to Python 3 syntax.
5. Frequent and regular testing to make sure regressions are not
introduced.



Progress so far:



1. Imports: a compatibility layer is in place to import Python 2 or 3
version of winreg, pickle, io.StringIO and what not.
2. Compiles fine via SCons 2.x.
3. Possible to see the first initialization phase of NVDA launcher
(nvda.pyw) via command line. The biggest showstopper at this time is the
fact that logHandler.StreamHandler constructor uses file function when
Python 3 says it isn't available, which suggests we need to modernize
log
handler module.



Benefits:



1. Allows NV Access to look at porting data and make informed
decisions.
2. Allows contributors and Python experts to provide expertise and
prepare the source code for Python 3 transition.
3. Allows add-on authors to look at changes and prepare their add-ons
to run on Python 3.
4. Allows interested users to be involved in a major project and
provide test data.



Disadvantages:



1. We need to part ways with Windows XP and Server 2003.
2. Stress throughout the project, as it is nothing like what we've seen
recently.
3. Some add-ons will need community intervention to get them to run on
Python 3, as some are abandonware (no longer maintained by authors or
the
add-ons community don't know who wrote some of them and lost contact
with
some authors).
4. Possible issues in code and other ones, especially when looking at
code and attitude conflicts.



Next steps:



1. I'm looking for volunteers and subproject leads: if you are
passionate about Python, NVDA, and want to help NVDA achieve the next
milestone, please help and find folks who can assist in this project. In
regards to subprojects, mostly have to do with dependency checks and
tests,
testing, documentation, talking to Python Software Foundation (PSF),
recruiting Python experts and what not.
2. Cooperation: as Project Pylennium is a grand-scale project, we
cannot move forward and make it a reality unless cooperation between
developers, add-on authors, users, observers and many others is there.
3. Promote: one way to keep the momentum going is promoting this
project far and wide.
4. Continued work: I'm looking into how to port urllib imports, as this
module has seen huge folder restructuring in Python 3 and other work.



What you'll need for this project:



1. Python 3.6.0 32-bit or later (3.6.2 is recommended).
2. wxPython 4 alpha 3 or later with the wheel for Python 3.5 or 3.6.
3. Six module (from PYPI).
4. ConfigObj 5.0.6.



Guidelines:



1. When sending pull requests, please do NOT send them to NV Access
yet, as folks over there are working on high priority work. Instead,
send

a
pull request against josephsl/nvda branch py3000.
2. Please provide a clear commit message when sending in pull requests
so folks can track what has changed.
3. Before you commit, please make sure to test NVDA in order to catch
regressions and write workarounds.
4. At least once a month, I will merge NV Access master branch to keep
the code up to date and incorporate changes into this project, sometimes
requiring transforming syntax to fit Python 3 requirements.
5. If you want to port add-ons, please do so at your earliest
convenience or when you are ready. As part of this work, I myself will
port
my own add-ons to Python 3 (one of them is done; throughout this year,
I'll
port rest of my add-ons). Please do not port your add-ons to Python 3
completely - I recommend making it so it'll run happily on both Python
versions.



Thank you.

Sincerely,

Joseph

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

Hello,

Here's a strange update on my mail app froblem.

I was using Google chrome, not on a website just looking at a list of
options, suddenly the speakers gave a prolonged sound, as if something
was shorting out, the sound lasted about two minutes, luckily someone
else was looking at the screen at the time and there was a message
saying something like, "your system has encountered a problem,, we will
try to find a solution and restart your computer".
The sound eventually stopped and the computer re started, to my
surprise, the mail app was back and the computer was more responsive
than it had been for some time, I don't really want to say more as it
will probably mess up again.

It seems that there certainly was something very wrong with my system
and I'm fairly sure it came about because of updates.
I am at a loss to explain what happened, but will cross my fingers and
hope for the best.

As to Narator, I can't, for the life of me, understand why we should
have to learn a whole new set of keystrokes to do tasks such as going
through a document by line, word or character, when the old keystrokes
such as up and down arrow, left and right arrow, control and arrow keys,
worked perfectly well before, and they are Microsoft keystrokes.
Narrator is useful when nothing else will work.
It all reminds me of something I heard a while back about the very
clever people who surround us these days,they can work out the capacity
of a biscuit tin in their head, but they haven't a clue how to get the
lid off.



Best Regards, Jim.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 8:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] mail app not opening

Well its not so much they don't care it is as we all know the usual
issue of
not enough testing.
I guess when major updates will be charged for people will just opt out
and
just get security updates.
I also think its very dangerous them improving Narrator as its awfully
tempting to them to just test that things work in that not realising or
maybe caring that for some third party software their built in solution
won't cut it.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Gamages" <james.gamage@btinternet.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] mail app not opening


Hello,

I have always found the fact that Microsoft does things in Windows ten
without giving us the chance of declining changes a real pain, every
major update has brought more niggles and most have been to do with
accessibility in some respect, Microsoft give scant attention to
accessability.
I used to think it was my system, but I have heard so many others
finding odd things happening that I feel that Microsoft have not given
us much
thought with their intrusive attitude to our systems, I am glad that my
main system is still Windows seven and my Windows ten is just for
experimentation.
I did try to ignore the creators update, but it got me in the end
without my permission.


Best Regards, Jim.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 7:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] mail app not opening

Well I use Outlook Express but it did work in 10, but when a major
update is
due you have to reinstall it as Microsoft don't like you using it.
I don't know if Live mail is affected in the same way.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] mail app not opening


I don't have Windows 10. As far as I know, the only problem with using
Windows Live Mail in Windows 10 is that when writing messages or
replying,
etc. you can't read what you have written unless you leave and return to
the
window. This can be done very conveniently and quickly by pressing alt
to
move to the ribbons, then pressing alt again to move back to the window
you
were in. I can't say whether the app is worth using. I've never used
it so
I don't know how it compares in terms of convenience.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: The Gamages
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 8:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] mail app not opening


Hello,

Since the anniversary edition, [I believe], my mail app is not opening,
I
believe there is a fairly simple way of sorting this by deleting the app
data, however, the mail app does not appear in my app data, any ideas
please?

All was working and then stopped , mind you the calander part of it didn’t
seem to work.
Is it worth persevering with this, iif not, is anyone still using Live
mail
with Windows ten?
Comments appreciated.
Best Regards, Jim.

I still use uTorrent 1.8.4  without any issue still and without all the bloat
 
From: Bobby
Sent: 22 July 2017 02:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] looking for a good torrent program
 
hay I was wondering what blind people use for torrenting.  I use to use
utorrent butt it is not as accessible as it use to be. Just let me know
if you have any ideas
 
 
 
 

Hello I was hanging out with my friend who can see and he made a call from google chrome to one of his friends on facebook messanger and was able to talk using the computer

how ever I can not find out how to do this with nvda I checked on the

m.facebook.com

and the main

facebook.com

messanger can any one tell me how do do this with nvda?

thanks

Hank




.

I use it extensively and it's very accessible. If it keeps prompting you for
account details, this is probably because it can't connect to the server. If
it's an IMAP server, you may have to enter the "advanced" options during the
account configuration process to specify the port and the authentication
scheme for both the IMAP and SMTP sides.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of John J.
Boyer
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 5:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] How accessible is Outlook 2016?

I'm trying to set up an email account on Outlook 2016. So far it's throwing
me into a loop where it asks the same things over and over. What is the most
accessible email client? I haven't had much luck with Thunderbird either.


thanks,
John

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM
services
that are available at no cost

Hi Quentin,

Similar issues appear in 2017.2. The only changes being that the
Japanese voice says Japanese or Chinese letter using the British English
voice, and the Burmese one reads what I Assume are the Unicode character
values rather than stringing random phonemes together.

Brian, I have Firefox set to display Unicode characters so they do
display correctly. If not, they would display as random symbols.


Kara
On 21/07/2017 13:52, Quentin Christensen wrote:

We recently moved to an updated build of eSpeak NG in snapshot builds
to fix another issue I can't recall off the top of my head. If those
who've seen this issue could please confirm that it works as expected
in NVDA stable 2017.2?

In any case, we'll look into it.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 9:57 PM, nasrin khaksar
<nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com <mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>> wrote:

espeak is the best synthesizer and i wish that it supports all
languages without problem!

On 7/21/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io
<mailto:blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>> wrote:
> There are two distinct issues. Do you have the language pack in
the machine,
>
> which is what causes the Chinese letter messages etc, and a
synth with the
> right phonemes for other more difficult languages. Often the
sounds that
> Latin languages need are just not enough to create oriental and
Arabic ones
>
> according to my fiends who speak them.
> I suppose this is why you often need a special synth designed
to do it
> correctly.
> Brian
>
> bglists@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk>,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "nasrin khaksar" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com
<mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 6:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Issues with some Espeak languages
>
>
>> hello.
>> i speak persian.
>> but i tested arabic and japanese in espeak ng and confirm your
message.
>> also, when i tested japanese language, nvda only told japanese and
>> chinese letter.
>> and with japanese language, nvda reads even english message and
>> document letter by letter, not complete sentence!
>> also, its arabic is completely ununderstandable.
>> i realy need arabic free tts and nvda espeak sometimes reads
arabic
>> letter by letter and sometimes very wrong pronunciation and also
>> sometimes completely ununderstandable words with very bad
quality and
>> not clear!
>> thanks very very much for your reporting and God bless you!
>>
>> On 7/21/17, Kara Goldfinch <kara.louise18@gmail.com
<mailto:kara.louise18@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Hi all.
>>> This doesn't effect me directly as I only speak English, but I
have
>>> noticed that there are some major issues with Espeak's support
for some
>>> languages that don't use Latin characters, particularly
Arabic, Burmese
>>> and Japanese.
>>> The Arabic and Burmese voices seem to read as though the rules
files are
>>> missing, just spitting out phonemes and hoping for the best. The
>>> Japanese voice just says "Chinese letter" or "Japanese letter"
with a
>>> sort of Scottish accent when encountering characters.
>>> As far as I know, all other languages that don't use Latin
characters
>>> aren't affected.
>>> Is this a known issue? If not, maybe perhaps someone who
speaks these
>>> languages could file a bug report.
>>> I am using NVDA Next build 14212,1c3743ee.
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Kara Goldfinch
>>>
>>> Certified Expert NVDA Certified Expert logo
>>> View the list of all NVDA Experts
<https://certification.nvaccess.org/
<https://certification.nvaccess.org/>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
>> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
>> in the very authentic narration is:
>> imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
>> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
>> al-islam.org <http://al-islam.org>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org <http://al-islam.org>






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--

Kara Goldfinch

Certified Expert NVDA Certified Expert logo
View the list of all NVDA Experts <https://certification.nvaccess.org/>

Hello group,
My computer has been acting somewhat strange lately and I m not sure
if this is Windows or NVDA related.
1. When Windows is updating NVDA stop speaking and I have no idea
what's going on.
2. Startin today my laptop would not open a link with just enter but
need to press control+enter.
Any ideas why this is happening and is there a fix?
Nevzat

Hi


any of the pages coming off the original website give 404 errors but if the web address is typed in it will be redirected to another website called accessibilitycentral.netbooksonline


This is not my website and some how they did it. I have been looking for info to try and figure it out to bring it back, but might just cancel the account


Hopefully it does not happen again you would think the person had some thing better to do with his time other than doing this sort of ....


Gene nz


Gene nz


On 7/22/2017 10:40 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Gene NZ,

I couldn't even get on the site. When I hit enter on it, there was nothing. That's awful that it was highjacked. I guess some people have nothing better to do so they try to harm other people's computers.

Rosemarie



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 3:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessing jean's sight.


Hi Matt



Apart from killing off the domain which was my website address some how it is been hijacked and sent to another website which it goes to now.

I have contacted my hosting provider to try and get things sorted out but so far there has been no reply.



the last email or ticket sent last night i gave them also the details of the new i p it is been routed to and who owns it. it does not look like it can be sorted from my end and both the website when typed into a malware online scanner program said it was clean, but that might be the original site not the one it is going to now. I did note there i p number and might even scan it as well through this program.



The pc here also is clean i have scanned it with different anti virus and malware programs that i read on a windows club page etc.



I sent out a email about 2 days ago trying to see if there are other low cost or free places where it can be hosted. I do not really have the knowledge only basic on building a website and do not really have the funds to pay for a domain plus hosting each month some of them are right up there.



but for the mean time do not even go there just in case.



I di did read a blog on how some thing like this can be done.. makes you wonder why some one would do this are they bored? at least i can re post again and will let people know what the new site is called. hopefully it does not happen again other wise i might have to look at other options.





Gene nz



On 7/22/2017 1:09 AM, Matt Turner wrote:
When i try to access his site, both in firefox, and chrome, i get this.

http://accessibilitycentral.net | BOOK online.

Don't click on that link, just encase.




--
[Image NVDA certified expert]
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


--
[Image NVDA certified expert]
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.