Date   

question please, Re: [nvda] accessing jean's sight.

Laurie Mehta
 

Hi,

Could someone please post how to remove a bookmark in firefox?
I want to remove my bookmark for now to avoid clicking on the tutorial page until it is safe again.
Thanks.

It is totally rotten that anyone would hijack such a thoughtfully arranged resource for us.

Gene, I'm sorry that this has happened.
-Laurie


Re: Several windows 10 users have got..

 

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 03:49 pm, Arlene wrote:
If you don't want the updates and only want to select the ones you
want. Can you hide them like you can with 7?
No, you cannot.  Microsoft has changed their update philosophy, and wisely in my opinion, to be that "we actually know what our OS needs in terms of updates - end users do not."   

The ability to pick and choose updates is being retroactively removed from Windows 8/8.1 and Windows 7 as well if the tech press is correct.  I'm surprised that it hasn't been done already, and it probably has on machines that have automatic updating turned on or where updates are all downloaded and the user chooses when to apply them.

It is expected under Windows 10 that all updates will be applied and that your machine will be kept on the latest version of Windows 10 as those versions are released and rolled out to cohorts of machines in cycles over a period of months.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Several windows 10 users have got..

Arlene
 

Hi there: If you don't want the updates and only want to select the ones you
want. Can you hide them like you can with 7?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The
Gamages
Sent: July-22-17 8:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

I don't know is the answer to that, a friend who actually clicked on the
settings stuff got nowhere,he wasn't asked to do anything with them, so it
seemed a pointless exercise, maybe Windows itself wants to look so that they
don't make too much of a mess of it when they try to update?, [smile].
I didn't do anything and got the creators update anyway.



Best Regards, Jim.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

Yes but why is it asking this question. From memory all you usually get is
that a new version of it is available with extra features, do you want to
now or later etc.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
This message sent from a Windows XP machine!
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Gamages" <james.gamage@btinternet.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..


This sounds like the message that you get prior to the creators
update,
it wants to check your security settings, I ignored this several times
but it still zapped me in the end.



Best Regards, Jim.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 10:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

Windows logo
Don't wait-review your privacy settings to get ready for the next
update
It doesn't take long. But if you're not ready to do it right now, we
can
postpone this one last time.
.
We want you to have the latest update so that Windows runs smoothly.
.
We'll save your settings and notify you before the update starts. It
won't
happen immediately.
Review settingsBackground

So I am assuming this is the latest mega update of 10, but what is all
this
about settings? In my experience the update has just been go ahead or
not
now.
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.







Re: NVDA and the Online Bible

Jim Noseworthy
 

Dani:

Thanks for your post. My client wishes to search for references as well as use concordences.

Thanks all over the place.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dani Pagador
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 5:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and the Online Bible

Hi, Jim.
I'm Dani, new to the list and to NVDA.

If you want a Bible for offline viewing, try www.optasia.org. It's a Christian ministry that provides the Bible in different translations, both in electronic formatted Braille and text, as well as other study resources and reading material. I recently requested and received their library on two DVDs and am really pleased with it.

HTH,
Dani

On 7/20/17, Ian Blackburn <ianblackburn@westnet.com.au> wrote:
You could try theopilis i'll send another message later to get the
correct spelling If you buy the full package that is not cheap it's
produced by an American company now and is compatible with Windows 7
but I don't know about 10 It has a specific mode for screen readers
but does not have some of the modern translations like an IV Are use
bible gateway on my phone Regards Ian

Sent from my iPhone

On 21 Jul 2017, at 4:03 am, Jim Noseworthy
<jim.noseworthy@compuconference.com> wrote:

Hello:

Thanks: I know about Bible Gateway but my client is looking for an
NVDA compatible off-line Bible.

Cheers.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 3:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and the Online Bible

There are many options but here is one that I have no difficulty
using-- and I use NVDA excluseively...
(I copied the title bar and address for you-- I use firefox.)

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and
50 languages. - Mozilla Firefox

https://www.biblegateway.com/

-LM

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 7/19/17, Jim Noseworthy <jim.noseworthy@compuconference.com> wrote:

Subject: [nvda] NVDA and the Online Bible
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2017, 11:23 AM

Hi Gang: Is there an NVDA add-on for
the Online Bible? If not, can anyone recommend a good off-line Bible
that would work with NVDA? Thanks all over the place gang.
















Re: NVDA and the Online Bible

Dani Pagador
 

Hi, Jim.
I'm Dani, new to the list and to NVDA.

If you want a Bible for offline viewing, try www.optasia.org. It's a
Christian ministry that provides the Bible in different translations,
both in electronic formatted Braille and text, as well as other study
resources and reading material. I recently requested and received
their library on two DVDs and am really pleased with it.

HTH,
Dani

On 7/20/17, Ian Blackburn <ianblackburn@westnet.com.au> wrote:
You could try theopilis i'll send another message later to get the correct
spelling
If you buy the full package that is not cheap it's produced by an American
company now and is compatible with Windows 7 but I don't know about 10
It has a specific mode for screen readers but does not have some of the
modern translations like an IV
Are use bible gateway on my phone
Regards Ian

Sent from my iPhone

On 21 Jul 2017, at 4:03 am, Jim Noseworthy
<jim.noseworthy@compuconference.com> wrote:

Hello:

Thanks: I know about Bible Gateway but my client is looking for an NVDA
compatible off-line Bible.

Cheers.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Laurie
Mehta via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 3:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and the Online Bible

There are many options but here is one that I have no difficulty using-- and
I use NVDA excluseively...
(I copied the title bar and address for you-- I use firefox.)

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50
languages. - Mozilla Firefox

https://www.biblegateway.com/

-LM

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 7/19/17, Jim Noseworthy <jim.noseworthy@compuconference.com> wrote:

Subject: [nvda] NVDA and the Online Bible
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2017, 11:23 AM

Hi Gang: Is there an NVDA add-on for
the Online Bible? If not, can anyone recommend a good off-line Bible that
would work with NVDA? Thanks all over the place gang.
















Re: Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

 

Hi,
NV Access said they'll support XP as long as possible, but it won't be forever. I'm using Python 3.4 and 3.6 internally for this reason.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

thanks for good news joseph and brian.
do you continue supporting of xp?
i became worried when i read the message for the first time.
God bless you all!

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Sounds sensible. At least this will preserve xp etc with the old
Python for

as long as possible. One thing you do not say, which may be obvious to
you,

but perhaps not to the average user is..
What are the reasons for change.
is it that its going to be faster, 64 bit or has better ways of doing
stuff

nvda needs to be able to do in the future?
Obviously not in your remit is that at some point an agreed last
working version of the old NVDA that can work on xp etc is going to
have to be made

available and then when add ons are updated, those that will and won't
run on the old version will need to be noted and if possible trapped
by the old

version so it cannot be scrambled by an add on.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:55 AM
Subject: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base,
dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Ladies and gentlemen,



Some of you have been asking NV Access and the global NVDA community
regarding porting NVDA source code and dependencies to Python 3. I
and some contributors have been brainstorming best ways to accomplish
this, and NV Access, contributors, some add-on writers, users, and
NVDA observers agree that it is important that we look into
eventually porting NVDA to Python 3.



Until recently, the possibility of moving NVDA to Python 3 seemed to
be only a dream. However, a major hurdle was overcome earlier this
year when wxPython 4 alpha was released, promising support for Python
versions 2.7 and 3.x. Apart from a major problem regarding certain
internal routines from wxPython 4 that may not be compatible with
NVDA source code, the stage is almost set to begin our transition to
Python 3, dubbed "Project Pylennium".



Project Pylennium is a new project I'm planning and working on that
should make it easier for NV Access, code contributors, add-on
writers, users and many others to experience smooth transition to
Python 3. The overall goal

of
this project is to prepare NVDA's source code so it can run on both
Python

2
and 3 in most cases until developers are ready to move on. This
project also seeks to uncover possible compatibility issues for NVDA
community when the transition happens, and to document these findings
so it can serve as guidelines to current and future developers.



The current iteration of Project Pylennium (based on NVDA GitHub issue
7105
as a roadmap) can be found on my copy of NVDA source code at:

https://github.com/josephsl/nvda

The branch to use is "py3000".



Project pylennium involves the following:



1. Gather dependencies required for Python 3 transition, such as newer
versions of Python, ConfigObj and many others. A crucial dependency is
the
Six module, which adds compatibility layer functions for both Python 2
and
3.
2. Document porting notes, which will eventually be published on our
NVDA Community wiki.
3. Create source-level compatibility layer in order to mitigate changes
in module names, standard library folder structure, function and class
names
and so on.
4. Migrate most code to Python 3 syntax.
5. Frequent and regular testing to make sure regressions are not
introduced.



Progress so far:



1. Imports: a compatibility layer is in place to import Python 2 or 3
version of winreg, pickle, io.StringIO and what not.
2. Compiles fine via SCons 2.x.
3. Possible to see the first initialization phase of NVDA launcher
(nvda.pyw) via command line. The biggest showstopper at this time is the
fact that logHandler.StreamHandler constructor uses file function when
Python 3 says it isn't available, which suggests we need to modernize log
handler module.



Benefits:



1. Allows NV Access to look at porting data and make informed
decisions.
2. Allows contributors and Python experts to provide expertise and
prepare the source code for Python 3 transition.
3. Allows add-on authors to look at changes and prepare their add-ons
to run on Python 3.
4. Allows interested users to be involved in a major project and
provide test data.



Disadvantages:



1. We need to part ways with Windows XP and Server 2003.
2. Stress throughout the project, as it is nothing like what we've seen
recently.
3. Some add-ons will need community intervention to get them to run on
Python 3, as some are abandonware (no longer maintained by authors or the
add-ons community don't know who wrote some of them and lost contact with
some authors).
4. Possible issues in code and other ones, especially when looking at
code and attitude conflicts.



Next steps:



1. I'm looking for volunteers and subproject leads: if you are
passionate about Python, NVDA, and want to help NVDA achieve the next
milestone, please help and find folks who can assist in this project. In
regards to subprojects, mostly have to do with dependency checks and
tests,
testing, documentation, talking to Python Software Foundation (PSF),
recruiting Python experts and what not.
2. Cooperation: as Project Pylennium is a grand-scale project, we
cannot move forward and make it a reality unless cooperation between
developers, add-on authors, users, observers and many others is there.
3. Promote: one way to keep the momentum going is promoting this
project far and wide.
4. Continued work: I'm looking into how to port urllib imports, as this
module has seen huge folder restructuring in Python 3 and other work.



What you'll need for this project:



1. Python 3.6.0 32-bit or later (3.6.2 is recommended).
2. wxPython 4 alpha 3 or later with the wheel for Python 3.5 or 3.6.
3. Six module (from PYPI).
4. ConfigObj 5.0.6.



Guidelines:



1. When sending pull requests, please do NOT send them to NV Access
yet, as folks over there are working on high priority work. Instead, send

a
pull request against josephsl/nvda branch py3000.
2. Please provide a clear commit message when sending in pull requests
so folks can track what has changed.
3. Before you commit, please make sure to test NVDA in order to catch
regressions and write workarounds.
4. At least once a month, I will merge NV Access master branch to keep
the code up to date and incorporate changes into this project, sometimes
requiring transforming syntax to fit Python 3 requirements.
5. If you want to port add-ons, please do so at your earliest
convenience or when you are ready. As part of this work, I myself will
port
my own add-ons to Python 3 (one of them is done; throughout this year,
I'll
port rest of my add-ons). Please do not port your add-ons to Python 3
completely - I recommend making it so it'll run happily on both Python
versions.



Thank you.

Sincerely,

Joseph





--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Several windows 10 users have got..

 

By the way, if you ignore this dialog for a sufficiently long time (and I think it will pop up once a week for five weeks, but don't hold me to that) you will eventually be upgraded to Version 1703 and the defaults that Microsoft chooses for those Privacy Settings you were asked to review will be applied at the end of the update.  You won't avoid the update perpetually by ignoring this pop-up dialog.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Several windows 10 users have got..

 

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 08:42 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Yes but why is it asking this question. From memory all you usually get is that a new version of it is available with extra features, do you want to now or later etc.
Because people legitimately complained about prior major updates to Windows 10 resetting Privacy (or other) settings as part of the update without any notification whatsoever.  This update also contains several new settings that were not there before, and Microsoft wants you to choose how you'd like those settings to be set so that this can be applied at the end of the update.

I tell everyone that when any of the Version updates takes place to Windows 10 you should always take a few minutes afterward, and that's all it requires, to cruise through every pane in the Privacy settings to ensure that things are set as you'd like them to be.  It also helps you to become more familiar with what you can control and where you need to go to tweak it as far as privacy goes.

And, as Gene has already noted, Windows 10 marked the introduction of Windows as a Service.  You cannot decline updates and if you use any method to rig it such that you don't get them you won't be getting security updates which are absolutely essential unless you're willing to keep reviewing the update catalog and manually downloading and applying same.  I'd rather not have to do that and my own professional experience informs my opinion that Microsoft, or any operating system creator and maintainer, knows a lot better than I do about what needs to be updated with their operating systems.  Nobody has put it better than one of the BSOD experts on BleepingComputer.com with regard to Windows Updates, regardless of the version of Windows under discussion:

There really isn't a point to checking for updates and not installing them. . .  It's important to install all available updates. I've been doing this since the days of DOS, and I still don't have the confidence to pick and choose among updates.  There are just too many variables involved - and most people can't evaluate the full consequences of installing/not installing updates.

        ~ John Carrona, AKA usasma on BleepingComputer.com, http://www.carrona.org/
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Several windows 10 users have got..

Gene
 

Windows 10 doesn't let you reject updates.  You may be able to delay them, but that's all you can do.  Of course, you could entirely stop the update service but I don't know if you could manually install security updates and keep the operating system patched against security vulnerabilities.  And perhaps security patches might not install properly in older versions of Windows. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

I don't know is the answer to that, a friend who actually clicked on the
settings stuff got nowhere,he wasn't asked to do anything with them, so
it seemed a pointless exercise, maybe Windows itself wants to look so
that they don't make too much of a mess of it when they try to update?,
[smile].
I didn't do anything and got the creators update anyway.



Best Regards, Jim.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

Yes but why is it asking this question. From memory all you usually get
is
that a new version of  it is available with extra features, do you want
to
now or later etc.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
This message sent from a Windows XP machine!
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Gamages" <james.gamage@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..


> This sounds like the message that you get prior to the creators
> update,
> it wants to check your security settings, I ignored this several times
> but it still zapped me in the end.
>
>
>
> Best Regards, Jim.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 10:39 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..
>
> Windows logo
> Don't wait-review your privacy settings to get ready for the next
> update
> It doesn't take long. But if you're not ready to do it right now, we
> can
> postpone this one last time.
> .
> We want you to have the latest update so that Windows runs smoothly.
> .
> We'll save your settings and notify you before the update starts. It
> won't
> happen immediately.
> Review settingsBackground
>
> So I am assuming this is the latest mega update of 10, but what is all
> this
> about settings? In my experience the update has just been go ahead or
> not
> now.
> Brian
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


 




Re: Issues with some Espeak languages

Kara Goldfinch <kara.louise18@...>
 

It sounds to me like someone's marked up the document or paragraphs to be in those languages, and NVDA's picking up on it because of the "automatic language switching" option in voice settings.

Try turning that option off and reading them again.


Kara

On 22/07/2017 10:51, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I've just been having some issues with the English Espeak today. In some pdfs and word documents some words get spoken as if the language of the synth has suddenly changed to French or Spanish, so normal words read  on other synths sound well foreign. If only I could come up with a sure fire way of demonstrating this, I'd raise a ticket, as it may well be related in that if some code in the file is changing the actual way nvda is interacting with characters when its not supposed to, its going to create problems. of course it could be that nvda is outputting illegal characters to the synths and some just ignore these but espeak uses them. This might be something as simple as the bit mask for changes in a variable is not correct so higher bits are read in inappropriate  situations.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kara Goldfinch" <kara.louise18@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issues with some Espeak languages


Hi Quentin,

Similar issues appear in 2017.2. The only changes being that the
Japanese voice says Japanese or Chinese letter using the British English
voice, and the Burmese one reads what I Assume are the Unicode character
values rather than stringing random phonemes together.

Brian, I have Firefox set to display Unicode characters so they do
display correctly. If not, they would display as random symbols.


Kara
On 21/07/2017 13:52, Quentin Christensen wrote:
We recently moved to an updated build of eSpeak NG in snapshot builds
to fix another issue I can't recall off the top of my head.  If those
who've seen this issue could please confirm that it works as expected
in NVDA stable 2017.2?

In any case, we'll look into it.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 9:57 PM, nasrin khaksar
<nasrinkhaksar3@... <mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@...>> wrote:

    espeak is the best synthesizer and i wish that it supports all
    languages without problem!

    On 7/21/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
    <bglists@...
    <mailto:blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>> wrote:
    > There are two distinct issues. Do you have the language pack in
    the machine,
    >
    > which is what causes the Chinese letter messages etc, and a
    synth with the
    > right phonemes for other more difficult languages. Often the
    sounds that
    > Latin languages need are just not enough to create oriental and
    Arabic ones
    >
    > according to my fiends who speak them.
    >  I suppose this is why you often need a special synth designed
    to do it
    > correctly.
    >  Brian
    >
    > bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
    > Sent via blueyonder.
    > Please address personal email to:-
    > briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...>,
    putting 'Brian Gaff'
    > in the display name field.
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "nasrin khaksar" <nasrinkhaksar3@...
    <mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@...>>
    > To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
    > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 6:17 AM
    > Subject: Re: [nvda] Issues with some Espeak languages
    >
    >
    >> hello.
    >> i speak persian.
    >> but i tested arabic and japanese in espeak ng and confirm your
    message.
    >> also, when i tested japanese language, nvda only told japanese and
    >> chinese letter.
    >> and with japanese language, nvda reads even english message and
    >> document letter by letter, not complete sentence!
    >> also, its arabic is completely ununderstandable.
    >> i realy need arabic free tts and nvda espeak sometimes reads arabic
    >> letter by letter and sometimes very wrong pronunciation and also
    >> sometimes completely ununderstandable words with very bad
    quality and
    >> not clear!
    >> thanks very very much for your reporting and God bless you!
    >>
    >> On 7/21/17, Kara Goldfinch <kara.louise18@...
    <mailto:kara.louise18@...>> wrote:
    >>> Hi all.
    >>> This doesn't effect me directly as I only speak English, but I
    have
    >>> noticed that there are some major issues with Espeak's support
    for some
    >>> languages that don't use Latin characters, particularly
    Arabic, Burmese
    >>> and Japanese.
    >>> The Arabic and Burmese voices seem to read as though the rules
    files are
    >>> missing, just spitting out phonemes and hoping for the best. The
    >>> Japanese voice just says "Chinese letter" or "Japanese letter"
    with a
    >>> sort of Scottish accent when encountering characters.
    >>> As far as I know, all other languages that don't use Latin
    characters
    >>> aren't affected.
    >>> Is this a known issue? If not, maybe perhaps someone who
    speaks these
    >>> languages could file a bug report.
    >>> I am using NVDA Next build 14212,1c3743ee.
    >>> All the best,
    >>>
    >>> Kara Goldfinch
    >>>
    >>> Certified Expert NVDA Certified Expert logo
    >>> View the list of all NVDA Experts
    <https://certification.nvaccess.org/
    <https://certification.nvaccess.org/>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >> --
    >> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
    >> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
    >> in the very authentic narration is:
    >> imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
    >> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
    >> al-islam.org <http://al-islam.org>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >


    --
    we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
    holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
    in the very authentic narration is:
    imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
    best website for studying islamic book in different languages
    al-islam.org <http://al-islam.org>






-- 
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


-- 

Kara Goldfinch

Certified Expert NVDA Certified Expert logo
View the list of all NVDA Experts <https://certification.nvaccess.org/>






--

Kara Goldfinch

Certified Expert               
View the list of all NVDA Experts


Re: Several windows 10 users have got..

The Gamages
 

I don't know is the answer to that, a friend who actually clicked on the
settings stuff got nowhere,he wasn't asked to do anything with them, so
it seemed a pointless exercise, maybe Windows itself wants to look so
that they don't make too much of a mess of it when they try to update?,
[smile].
I didn't do anything and got the creators update anyway.



Best Regards, Jim.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

Yes but why is it asking this question. From memory all you usually get
is
that a new version of it is available with extra features, do you want
to
now or later etc.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
This message sent from a Windows XP machine!
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Gamages" <james.gamage@btinternet.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..


This sounds like the message that you get prior to the creators
update,
it wants to check your security settings, I ignored this several times
but it still zapped me in the end.



Best Regards, Jim.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 10:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

Windows logo
Don't wait-review your privacy settings to get ready for the next
update
It doesn't take long. But if you're not ready to do it right now, we
can
postpone this one last time.
.
We want you to have the latest update so that Windows runs smoothly.
.
We'll save your settings and notify you before the update starts. It
won't
happen immediately.
Review settingsBackground

So I am assuming this is the latest mega update of 10, but what is all
this
about settings? In my experience the update has just been go ahead or
not
now.
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.







Re: Some questions related to highlights and comments in pdf files as well as footnotes in Word

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Well, first off, footnotes are exactly that, notes that appear at the foot of the page (or in some cases, at the end of the document).  These aren't supposed to be read inline with the rest of the text, it's a design that has been around since the printed word has existed.  Even sighted folks reading documents have to click on the footnote, read it, then return to the text, this is normal, and expected behavior.  What you're asking for is a departure from this standard behavior, and I know of no way to accomplish it, though I'm sure it's been done at some time or other.  As to your other questions, I have had very little success working directly with pdf files to obtain comments, (or to add them as well).  I am not a fan of pdf files for this (and other) reason(s), but folks have to use what's on tap, whether it's convenient or not so using workarounds are the order of the day.  If others have solutions for the comments problem, I too would like to ehar them.  I almost always wind up converting the pdf to some other format before I can do anything useful with them, especially on windows.  I've had better success on OSX, but I'm guessing that isn't an option here.


On 7/22/2017 3:22 AM, Felix G. wrote:
Hello list!
I'm doing some research for someone regarding accessible pdf and Word documents with NVDA, and some questions came up which I thought I'd post here in case anyone has an idea or a suggestion. I'm not an experienced Word user except very basic procedures, and not a pdf expert either, so here goes:
In Word, I can't seem to find a way to have footnotes read within the flow of text. That is, the position of the footnote is announced but not the footnote text itself within context. The affected user can of course navigate to the footnote then return to the textual context but she would like to switch to the mode of operation I just described.
In pdf files, it seems a highlight is indicated with a button which has the state of "reduced." When expanded by hitting enter on it, it turns into an empty text edit field. Also, the actual highlighted text seems to be skipped in the flow of reading.
Comments in pdfs also seem problematic. They appear as edit fields in the text, but when hitting enter on them I can't get to their contents. Rather, my arrowing is passed directly through to Adobe Reader and triggers navigation within the document.
Constructive ideas very much appreciated as the user requires the functionality for her studies.
Thanks in advance and kind regards,
Felix


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Several windows 10 users have got..

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes but why is it asking this question. From memory all you usually get is that a new version of it is available with extra features, do you want to now or later etc.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
This message sent from a Windows XP machine!

----- Original Message -----
From: "The Gamages" <james.gamage@btinternet.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..


This sounds like the message that you get prior to the creators update,
it wants to check your security settings, I ignored this several times
but it still zapped me in the end.



Best Regards, Jim.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 10:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

Windows logo
Don't wait-review your privacy settings to get ready for the next update
It doesn't take long. But if you're not ready to do it right now, we can
postpone this one last time.
.
We want you to have the latest update so that Windows runs smoothly.
.
We'll save your settings and notify you before the update starts. It
won't
happen immediately.
Review settingsBackground

So I am assuming this is the latest mega update of 10, but what is all
this
about settings? In my experience the update has just been go ahead or
not
now.
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.






Re: Strange computer behaviour

 

My browser is Firefox. My daughter used the mouse on my laptop
recently, but she is away for the weekend so I have noone to tell me
what's on the screen when I press enter or spacebar to open a link.
Nevzat

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
What browser is it and have you hada a mouse weilding sighted person near it

recently?
It might be interesting to find out what the log is saying when you press
enter on its own or space bar, which I tend to use for most links these
days.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nevzat Adil" <nevzatadil@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 9:48 PM
Subject: [nvda] Strange computer behaviour


Hello group,
My computer has been acting somewhat strange lately and I m not sure
if this is Windows or NVDA related.
1. When Windows is updating NVDA stop speaking and I have no idea
what's going on.
2. Startin today my laptop would not open a link with just enter but
need to press control+enter.
Any ideas why this is happening and is there a fix?
Nevzat






Re: .pdf readers

Gene
 

No OCR recognized PDF document is the original document.  Whether this matters depending on what you are doing is a different question, but for legal purposes, the OCR document is not the actual document and if you are sharing the document with others for colaborative work, it isn't the original document either. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Jacques
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] .pdf readers

Hi, although QRead is a neat little program, it does not retain format,
quite to the contrary. If you need a application that will read a PDF
which is not image-based, and format is not an issue, QRead works very
well though. I've seen Tweets suggesting that a future release of QRead
will be able to do OCR on image-based PDF's, but no indication on when
that will be available. Based on what I currently have installed, the
best way to get access to correctly formatted PDF's, especially those
which are image-based, Fine Reader does the best job. As previously
mentioned on the list, KNFB Reader for Windows is quick and pretty
accurate, but it makes an absolute mess of the format.

On 22/07/2017 13:57, john s wrote:
> George, I think QRead reads pdf files but I don't know about preserving
> formats.
>
> At 10:04 PM 7/21/2017, you wrote:
>> Thanks very much for the great suggestions, everydody.  I’ll check
>> them all out and see if any of them eet my needs.
>>
>> Georgwe
>>
>> *From:* George McCoy <mailto:slr1bpz@...>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2017 3:33 PM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* [nvda] .pdf readers
>>
>> Is there a pdf reader other than Adobe Reader that works with NVDA? I
>> need one that preserves the document format including indentions.
>> Visual inspection of the documents in Adobe Reader reveals that they
>> contain indented lines but NVDA says that all lines are at the left
>> margin.
>> I converted the document to various formats with three different
>> converters and in no case does the output show indented lines.
>>
>> Thanks very much,
>> George
>>
>> John
>>
>>



Re: .pdf readers

Jacques <lists4js@...>
 

Hi, although QRead is a neat little program, it does not retain format, quite to the contrary. If you need a application that will read a PDF which is not image-based, and format is not an issue, QRead works very well though. I've seen Tweets suggesting that a future release of QRead will be able to do OCR on image-based PDF's, but no indication on when that will be available. Based on what I currently have installed, the best way to get access to correctly formatted PDF's, especially those which are image-based, Fine Reader does the best job. As previously mentioned on the list, KNFB Reader for Windows is quick and pretty accurate, but it makes an absolute mess of the format.

On 22/07/2017 13:57, john s wrote:
George, I think QRead reads pdf files but I don't know about preserving formats.
At 10:04 PM 7/21/2017, you wrote:
Thanks very much for the great suggestions, everydody. I’ll check them all out and see if any of them eet my needs.

Georgwe

*From:* George McCoy <mailto:slr1bpz@charter.net>
*Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2017 3:33 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] .pdf readers

Is there a pdf reader other than Adobe Reader that works with NVDA? I need one that preserves the document format including indentions.
Visual inspection of the documents in Adobe Reader reveals that they contain indented lines but NVDA says that all lines are at the left margin.
I converted the document to various formats with three different converters and in no case does the output show indented lines.

Thanks very much,
George

John


Re: .pdf readers

john s
 

George, I think QRead reads pdf files but I don't know about preserving formats.


At 10:04 PM 7/21/2017, you wrote:
Thanks very much for the great suggestions, everydody.  I’ll check them all out and see if any of them eet my needs.
 
Georgwe
 
From: George McCoy
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 3:33 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] .pdf readers
 
Is there a pdf reader other than Adobe Reader that works with NVDA?  I need one that preserves the document format including indentions.
Visual inspection of the documents in Adobe Reader reveals that they contain indented lines but NVDA says that all lines are at the left margin.
I converted the document to various formats with three different converters and in no case does the output show indented lines.
 
Thanks very much,
George

                 John


Re: Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

Joshua Hendrickson
 

Hi to all. I know nothing about how to make computer programs like
NVDA work and nothing about python. However, I say any change to NVDA
can only make it a better screenreader. Best of Luck Joseph to the
project. If I knew how to use python I'd do my best to help. Keep up
the good work.

On 7/22/17, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
thanks for good news joseph and brian.
do you continue supporting of xp?
i became worried when i read the message for the first time.
God bless you all!

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Sounds sensible. At least this will preserve xp etc with the old Python
for

as long as possible. One thing you do not say, which may be obvious to
you,

but perhaps not to the average user is..
What are the reasons for change.
is it that its going to be faster, 64 bit or has better ways of doing
stuff

nvda needs to be able to do in the future?
Obviously not in your remit is that at some point an agreed last working
version of the old NVDA that can work on xp etc is going to have to be
made

available and then when add ons are updated, those that will and won't
run
on the old version will need to be noted and if possible trapped by the
old

version so it cannot be scrambled by an add on.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:55 AM
Subject: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base,
dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Ladies and gentlemen,



Some of you have been asking NV Access and the global NVDA community
regarding porting NVDA source code and dependencies to Python 3. I and
some
contributors have been brainstorming best ways to accomplish this, and
NV
Access, contributors, some add-on writers, users, and NVDA observers
agree
that it is important that we look into eventually porting NVDA to Python
3.



Until recently, the possibility of moving NVDA to Python 3 seemed to be
only
a dream. However, a major hurdle was overcome earlier this year when
wxPython 4 alpha was released, promising support for Python versions 2.7
and
3.x. Apart from a major problem regarding certain internal routines from
wxPython 4 that may not be compatible with NVDA source code, the stage
is
almost set to begin our transition to Python 3, dubbed "Project
Pylennium".



Project Pylennium is a new project I'm planning and working on that
should
make it easier for NV Access, code contributors, add-on writers, users
and
many others to experience smooth transition to Python 3. The overall
goal

of
this project is to prepare NVDA's source code so it can run on both
Python

2
and 3 in most cases until developers are ready to move on. This project
also
seeks to uncover possible compatibility issues for NVDA community when
the
transition happens, and to document these findings so it can serve as
guidelines to current and future developers.



The current iteration of Project Pylennium (based on NVDA GitHub issue
7105
as a roadmap) can be found on my copy of NVDA source code at:

https://github.com/josephsl/nvda

The branch to use is "py3000".



Project pylennium involves the following:



1. Gather dependencies required for Python 3 transition, such as newer
versions of Python, ConfigObj and many others. A crucial dependency is
the
Six module, which adds compatibility layer functions for both Python 2
and
3.
2. Document porting notes, which will eventually be published on our
NVDA Community wiki.
3. Create source-level compatibility layer in order to mitigate changes
in module names, standard library folder structure, function and class
names
and so on.
4. Migrate most code to Python 3 syntax.
5. Frequent and regular testing to make sure regressions are not
introduced.



Progress so far:



1. Imports: a compatibility layer is in place to import Python 2 or 3
version of winreg, pickle, io.StringIO and what not.
2. Compiles fine via SCons 2.x.
3. Possible to see the first initialization phase of NVDA launcher
(nvda.pyw) via command line. The biggest showstopper at this time is the
fact that logHandler.StreamHandler constructor uses file function when
Python 3 says it isn't available, which suggests we need to modernize
log
handler module.



Benefits:



1. Allows NV Access to look at porting data and make informed
decisions.
2. Allows contributors and Python experts to provide expertise and
prepare the source code for Python 3 transition.
3. Allows add-on authors to look at changes and prepare their add-ons
to run on Python 3.
4. Allows interested users to be involved in a major project and
provide test data.



Disadvantages:



1. We need to part ways with Windows XP and Server 2003.
2. Stress throughout the project, as it is nothing like what we've seen
recently.
3. Some add-ons will need community intervention to get them to run on
Python 3, as some are abandonware (no longer maintained by authors or
the
add-ons community don't know who wrote some of them and lost contact
with
some authors).
4. Possible issues in code and other ones, especially when looking at
code and attitude conflicts.



Next steps:



1. I'm looking for volunteers and subproject leads: if you are
passionate about Python, NVDA, and want to help NVDA achieve the next
milestone, please help and find folks who can assist in this project. In
regards to subprojects, mostly have to do with dependency checks and
tests,
testing, documentation, talking to Python Software Foundation (PSF),
recruiting Python experts and what not.
2. Cooperation: as Project Pylennium is a grand-scale project, we
cannot move forward and make it a reality unless cooperation between
developers, add-on authors, users, observers and many others is there.
3. Promote: one way to keep the momentum going is promoting this
project far and wide.
4. Continued work: I'm looking into how to port urllib imports, as this
module has seen huge folder restructuring in Python 3 and other work.



What you'll need for this project:



1. Python 3.6.0 32-bit or later (3.6.2 is recommended).
2. wxPython 4 alpha 3 or later with the wheel for Python 3.5 or 3.6.
3. Six module (from PYPI).
4. ConfigObj 5.0.6.



Guidelines:



1. When sending pull requests, please do NOT send them to NV Access
yet, as folks over there are working on high priority work. Instead,
send

a
pull request against josephsl/nvda branch py3000.
2. Please provide a clear commit message when sending in pull requests
so folks can track what has changed.
3. Before you commit, please make sure to test NVDA in order to catch
regressions and write workarounds.
4. At least once a month, I will merge NV Access master branch to keep
the code up to date and incorporate changes into this project, sometimes
requiring transforming syntax to fit Python 3 requirements.
5. If you want to port add-ons, please do so at your earliest
convenience or when you are ready. As part of this work, I myself will
port
my own add-ons to Python 3 (one of them is done; throughout this year,
I'll
port rest of my add-ons). Please do not port your add-ons to Python 3
completely - I recommend making it so it'll run happily on both Python
versions.



Thank you.

Sincerely,

Joseph





--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
Joshua Hendrickson

Joshua Hendrickson


Re: Issues with some Espeak languages

 

brian,
do you mean that you have problem using english with espeak for espeak
ng 1.49.1 final release?
because i dont have problem using english with nvda 2017.1 and 2017.2
which support espeak ng developers.

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
I've just been having some issues with the English Espeak today. In some
pdfs and word documents some words get spoken as if the language of the
synth has suddenly changed to French or Spanish, so normal words read on
other synths sound well foreign. If only I could come up with a sure fire
way of demonstrating this, I'd raise a ticket, as it may well be related in

that if some code in the file is changing the actual way nvda is interacting

with characters when its not supposed to, its going to create problems. of
course it could be that nvda is outputting illegal characters to the synths

and some just ignore these but espeak uses them. This might be something as

simple as the bit mask for changes in a variable is not correct so higher
bits are read in inappropriate situations.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kara Goldfinch" <kara.louise18@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issues with some Espeak languages


Hi Quentin,

Similar issues appear in 2017.2. The only changes being that the
Japanese voice says Japanese or Chinese letter using the British English
voice, and the Burmese one reads what I Assume are the Unicode character
values rather than stringing random phonemes together.

Brian, I have Firefox set to display Unicode characters so they do
display correctly. If not, they would display as random symbols.


Kara
On 21/07/2017 13:52, Quentin Christensen wrote:
We recently moved to an updated build of eSpeak NG in snapshot builds
to fix another issue I can't recall off the top of my head. If those
who've seen this issue could please confirm that it works as expected
in NVDA stable 2017.2?

In any case, we'll look into it.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 9:57 PM, nasrin khaksar
<nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com <mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>> wrote:

espeak is the best synthesizer and i wish that it supports all
languages without problem!

On 7/21/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io
<mailto:blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>> wrote:
> There are two distinct issues. Do you have the language pack in
the machine,
>
> which is what causes the Chinese letter messages etc, and a
synth with the
> right phonemes for other more difficult languages. Often the
sounds that
> Latin languages need are just not enough to create oriental and
Arabic ones
>
> according to my fiends who speak them.
> I suppose this is why you often need a special synth designed
to do it
> correctly.
> Brian
>
> bglists@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk>,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "nasrin khaksar" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com
<mailto:nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 6:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Issues with some Espeak languages
>
>
>> hello.
>> i speak persian.
>> but i tested arabic and japanese in espeak ng and confirm your
message.
>> also, when i tested japanese language, nvda only told japanese
and
>> chinese letter.
>> and with japanese language, nvda reads even english message and
>> document letter by letter, not complete sentence!
>> also, its arabic is completely ununderstandable.
>> i realy need arabic free tts and nvda espeak sometimes reads
arabic
>> letter by letter and sometimes very wrong pronunciation and also
>> sometimes completely ununderstandable words with very bad
quality and
>> not clear!
>> thanks very very much for your reporting and God bless you!
>>
>> On 7/21/17, Kara Goldfinch <kara.louise18@gmail.com
<mailto:kara.louise18@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Hi all.
>>> This doesn't effect me directly as I only speak English, but I
have
>>> noticed that there are some major issues with Espeak's support
for some
>>> languages that don't use Latin characters, particularly
Arabic, Burmese
>>> and Japanese.
>>> The Arabic and Burmese voices seem to read as though the rules
files are
>>> missing, just spitting out phonemes and hoping for the best. The
>>> Japanese voice just says "Chinese letter" or "Japanese letter"
with a
>>> sort of Scottish accent when encountering characters.
>>> As far as I know, all other languages that don't use Latin
characters
>>> aren't affected.
>>> Is this a known issue? If not, maybe perhaps someone who
speaks these
>>> languages could file a bug report.
>>> I am using NVDA Next build 14212,1c3743ee.
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Kara Goldfinch
>>>
>>> Certified Expert NVDA Certified Expert logo
>>> View the list of all NVDA Experts
<https://certification.nvaccess.org/
<https://certification.nvaccess.org/>;>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
>> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
>> in the very authentic narration is:
>> imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
>> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
>> al-islam.org <http://al-islam.org>;
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org <http://al-islam.org>;






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>;
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--

Kara Goldfinch

Certified Expert NVDA Certified Expert logo
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Re: Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

 

thanks for good news joseph and brian.
do you continue supporting of xp?
i became worried when i read the message for the first time.
God bless you all!

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Sounds sensible. At least this will preserve xp etc with the old Python for

as long as possible. One thing you do not say, which may be obvious to you,

but perhaps not to the average user is..
What are the reasons for change.
is it that its going to be faster, 64 bit or has better ways of doing stuff

nvda needs to be able to do in the future?
Obviously not in your remit is that at some point an agreed last working
version of the old NVDA that can work on xp etc is going to have to be made

available and then when add ons are updated, those that will and won't run
on the old version will need to be noted and if possible trapped by the old

version so it cannot be scrambled by an add on.


Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:55 AM
Subject: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base,
dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Ladies and gentlemen,



Some of you have been asking NV Access and the global NVDA community
regarding porting NVDA source code and dependencies to Python 3. I and
some
contributors have been brainstorming best ways to accomplish this, and NV
Access, contributors, some add-on writers, users, and NVDA observers
agree
that it is important that we look into eventually porting NVDA to Python
3.



Until recently, the possibility of moving NVDA to Python 3 seemed to be
only
a dream. However, a major hurdle was overcome earlier this year when
wxPython 4 alpha was released, promising support for Python versions 2.7
and
3.x. Apart from a major problem regarding certain internal routines from
wxPython 4 that may not be compatible with NVDA source code, the stage is
almost set to begin our transition to Python 3, dubbed "Project
Pylennium".



Project Pylennium is a new project I'm planning and working on that
should
make it easier for NV Access, code contributors, add-on writers, users
and
many others to experience smooth transition to Python 3. The overall goal

of
this project is to prepare NVDA's source code so it can run on both Python

2
and 3 in most cases until developers are ready to move on. This project
also
seeks to uncover possible compatibility issues for NVDA community when
the
transition happens, and to document these findings so it can serve as
guidelines to current and future developers.



The current iteration of Project Pylennium (based on NVDA GitHub issue
7105
as a roadmap) can be found on my copy of NVDA source code at:

https://github.com/josephsl/nvda

The branch to use is "py3000".



Project pylennium involves the following:



1. Gather dependencies required for Python 3 transition, such as newer
versions of Python, ConfigObj and many others. A crucial dependency is
the
Six module, which adds compatibility layer functions for both Python 2
and
3.
2. Document porting notes, which will eventually be published on our
NVDA Community wiki.
3. Create source-level compatibility layer in order to mitigate changes
in module names, standard library folder structure, function and class
names
and so on.
4. Migrate most code to Python 3 syntax.
5. Frequent and regular testing to make sure regressions are not
introduced.



Progress so far:



1. Imports: a compatibility layer is in place to import Python 2 or 3
version of winreg, pickle, io.StringIO and what not.
2. Compiles fine via SCons 2.x.
3. Possible to see the first initialization phase of NVDA launcher
(nvda.pyw) via command line. The biggest showstopper at this time is the
fact that logHandler.StreamHandler constructor uses file function when
Python 3 says it isn't available, which suggests we need to modernize log
handler module.



Benefits:



1. Allows NV Access to look at porting data and make informed
decisions.
2. Allows contributors and Python experts to provide expertise and
prepare the source code for Python 3 transition.
3. Allows add-on authors to look at changes and prepare their add-ons
to run on Python 3.
4. Allows interested users to be involved in a major project and
provide test data.



Disadvantages:



1. We need to part ways with Windows XP and Server 2003.
2. Stress throughout the project, as it is nothing like what we've seen
recently.
3. Some add-ons will need community intervention to get them to run on
Python 3, as some are abandonware (no longer maintained by authors or the
add-ons community don't know who wrote some of them and lost contact with
some authors).
4. Possible issues in code and other ones, especially when looking at
code and attitude conflicts.



Next steps:



1. I'm looking for volunteers and subproject leads: if you are
passionate about Python, NVDA, and want to help NVDA achieve the next
milestone, please help and find folks who can assist in this project. In
regards to subprojects, mostly have to do with dependency checks and
tests,
testing, documentation, talking to Python Software Foundation (PSF),
recruiting Python experts and what not.
2. Cooperation: as Project Pylennium is a grand-scale project, we
cannot move forward and make it a reality unless cooperation between
developers, add-on authors, users, observers and many others is there.
3. Promote: one way to keep the momentum going is promoting this
project far and wide.
4. Continued work: I'm looking into how to port urllib imports, as this
module has seen huge folder restructuring in Python 3 and other work.



What you'll need for this project:



1. Python 3.6.0 32-bit or later (3.6.2 is recommended).
2. wxPython 4 alpha 3 or later with the wheel for Python 3.5 or 3.6.
3. Six module (from PYPI).
4. ConfigObj 5.0.6.



Guidelines:



1. When sending pull requests, please do NOT send them to NV Access
yet, as folks over there are working on high priority work. Instead, send

a
pull request against josephsl/nvda branch py3000.
2. Please provide a clear commit message when sending in pull requests
so folks can track what has changed.
3. Before you commit, please make sure to test NVDA in order to catch
regressions and write workarounds.
4. At least once a month, I will merge NV Access master branch to keep
the code up to date and incorporate changes into this project, sometimes
requiring transforming syntax to fit Python 3 requirements.
5. If you want to port add-ons, please do so at your earliest
convenience or when you are ready. As part of this work, I myself will
port
my own add-ons to Python 3 (one of them is done; throughout this year,
I'll
port rest of my add-ons). Please do not port your add-ons to Python 3
completely - I recommend making it so it'll run happily on both Python
versions.



Thank you.

Sincerely,

Joseph





--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org