Date   

Re: NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!

Mailing Lists
 

Hi,

I got the following from the new computer;

Asus Celtic I7-7700h

Paul.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday 24 July 2017 15:36
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!

This may be a problem with unregistered dll files but I'm not sure. What brand and model computer is this? I believe we had a similar question a week or two ago and it would be good to know if the brand and/or model is the same.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Mailing Lists <mailto:pauls_lists@eircom.net>
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 6:01 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!

Hi All,

Got a new desktop, never used before and first thing I did was to install NVDA latest version. After navigating around the main desktop and some of the windows 10 settings screens I kept getting NVDA announcing, "Unknown" all the time as I tabbed and so on. I disabled any lock screens, screen savers and the like. I also uninstalled and reinstalled the video card which is an Intel HD 630.
After doing all the above I uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but still no success. Even when I go onto the Taskbar and arrow along it, NVDA just announces, "Unknown". On the main desktop screen when I open up a context menu there is nothing, NVDA doesn't announce any of the menus options, not even announce that the menu is in fact open.
Just wondered if there were any suggestions as to what might be going on here.

Many thanks for a great list and wonderful program such as NVDA.

Paul.


Re: NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!

Gene
 

This may be a problem with unregistered dll files but I'm not sure.  What brand and model computer is this?  I believe we had a similar question a week or two ago and it would be good to know if the brand and/or model is the same. 
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 6:01 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!

Hi All,

Got a new desktop, never used before and first thing I did was to install NVDA latest version. After navigating around the main desktop and some of the windows 10 settings screens I kept getting NVDA announcing, "Unknown" all the time as I tabbed and so on. I disabled any lock screens, screen savers and the like. I also uninstalled and reinstalled the video card which is an Intel HD 630.
After doing all the above I uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but still no success. Even when I go onto the Taskbar and arrow along it, NVDA just announces, "Unknown". On the main desktop screen when I open up a context menu there is nothing, NVDA doesn't announce any of the menus options, not even announce that the menu is in fact open.
Just wondered if there were any suggestions as to what might be going on here.

Many thanks for a great list and wonderful program such as NVDA.

Paul.







Re: Strange computer behaviour

 

I had a tune up for my computer and now it seems to be working fine.
Thanks for your responses.

On 7/24/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Ah yes, I'd go and look at these setting for how you click on things. Not
sure if firefox has its own, but certainly windows has and it can create
some less than good results if they change it.

It is unfortunate that there is no way to lock many of the changes sighted
people make to computers without even thinking about it. I liken it to
trying to unscramble a Rubiks Cube blindfolded.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nevzat Adil" <nevzatadil@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange computer behaviour


My browser is Firefox. My daughter used the mouse on my laptop
recently, but she is away for the weekend so I have noone to tell me
what's on the screen when I press enter or spacebar to open a link.
Nevzat

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
What browser is it and have you hada a mouse weilding sighted person near

it

recently?
It might be interesting to find out what the log is saying when you
press
enter on its own or space bar, which I tend to use for most links these
days.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nevzat Adil" <nevzatadil@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 9:48 PM
Subject: [nvda] Strange computer behaviour


Hello group,
My computer has been acting somewhat strange lately and I m not sure
if this is Windows or NVDA related.
1. When Windows is updating NVDA stop speaking and I have no idea
what's going on.
2. Startin today my laptop would not open a link with just enter but
need to press control+enter.
Any ideas why this is happening and is there a fix?
Nevzat










Re: Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

 

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 06:20 am, Marshall handheld Flax wrote:
It would be nice if Microsoft had made XP so bulletproof that you could use it forever, but that is not the world we find ourselves in.
And being a computer technician by trade I will say that, at this point in time, it is foolish, yes foolish, to use a Windows XP machine if you are interacting with cyberspace with it.  There are massive security holes in the OS itself that will never be patched and the version of IE that will run under it is even worse.

Using an unsupported operating system, regardless of which operating system, is just asking for trouble.  It will come, it's just a matter of when.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!

Mailing Lists
 

Hi,

I am using the following version and build of windows 10;

Version 1703
Build: 15063.483

Also using latest version of NVDA.

Paul.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Monday 24 July 2017 12:55
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!

What build are you running?

Older builds have this issue.

Best to upgrade to the latest build and go from there







From: Mailing Lists <mailto:pauls_lists@eircom.net>
Sent: 24 July 2017 11:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!



Hi All,



Got a new desktop, never used before and first thing I did was to install NVDA latest version. After navigating around the main desktop and some of the windows 10 settings screens I kept getting NVDA announcing, "Unknown" all the time as I tabbed and so on. I disabled any lock screens, screen savers and the like. I also uninstalled and reinstalled the video card which is an Intel HD 630.

After doing all the above I uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but still no success. Even when I go onto the Taskbar and arrow along it, NVDA just announces, "Unknown". On the main desktop screen when I open up a context menu there is nothing, NVDA doesn't announce any of the menus options, not even announce that the menu is in fact open.

Just wondered if there were any suggestions as to what might be going on here.



Many thanks for a great list and wonderful program such as NVDA.



Paul.


Re: Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

Marshall handheld Flax
 

I'm sorry, but you may be familiar with XP, and there is a natural resistance to change, and there are often financial issues in upgrading computers.  But XP is full of bugs and security holes.  The longer you use it, the more likely it is that your machine will be attacked by malware and you would lose all data you didn't backup to some external location.

It would be nice if Microsoft had made XP so bulletproof that you could use it forever, but that is not the world we find ourselves in.   

Marshall

p.s. And there are no "single-user" computers anymore.  If you're visiting a website and download javascript from it, and run it (and everyone who uses a browser does exactly that), then the site's programmers are also, in a sense, "using" your computer.  If your computer has known vulnerabilities (and every XP machine does, since Microsoft doesn't fix most known XP bugs anymore) then that site can compromise your computer.

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 9:10 AM, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
i use xp, love it and dont believe negative statement against it.
its realy great operating system forever.

On 7/24/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I wouldn't use xp for the net anymore its far to insecure for that.
>
> However its good for all those 32 bit programs you need to use, ie old
> games especially those that use directx 8 or whatever that is.
>
> They are also usefull well xp is for old nokia 32 bit apps and other
> older games.
>
>
>
>
> On 24/07/2017 7:52 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
>> I think at present at least, XP is not really very good for web
>> browsing any more due to the tendency for even the working third party
>> browsers to be quite slow on single core machines of that vintage.
>>
>> It is however still a joy to use for those of us who hate all the
>> issues over too much security on single user computers that 7 8 and
>> now 10 impose on us all.
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
>> <joseph.lee22590@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:07 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code
>> base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> NV Access said they'll support XP as long as possible, but it won't be
>> forever. I'm using Python 3.4 and 3.6 internally for this reason.
>> Cheers,
>> Joseph
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>> nasrin khaksar
>> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:46 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code
>> base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x
>>
>> thanks for good news joseph and brian.
>> do you continue supporting of xp?
>> i became worried when i read the message for the first time.
>> God bless you all!
>>
>> On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
>> <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
>>> Sounds sensible. At least this will preserve xp etc with the old
>>> Python for
>>>
>>> as long as possible. One thing you do not say, which may be obvious to
>>> you,
>>>
>>> but perhaps not to the average user is..
>>>  What are the reasons for change.
>>>  is it that its going to be faster, 64 bit or has better ways of doing
>>> stuff
>>>
>>> nvda needs to be able to do in the future?
>>>  Obviously not in your remit is that at some point an agreed last
>>> working version of the old NVDA that can work on xp etc is going to
>>> have to be made
>>>
>>> available and then when add ons are updated, those that will and won't
>>> run on the old version will need to be  noted and if possible trapped
>>> by the old
>>>
>>> version so it cannot be scrambled by an add on.
>>>
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> bglists@...
>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>> in the display name field.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:55 AM
>>> Subject: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base,
>>> dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ladies and gentlemen,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Some of you have been asking NV Access and the global NVDA community
>>>> regarding porting NVDA source code and dependencies to Python 3. I
>>>> and some contributors have been brainstorming best ways to accomplish
>>>> this, and NV Access, contributors, some add-on writers, users, and
>>>> NVDA observers agree that it is important that we look into
>>>> eventually porting NVDA to Python 3.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Until recently, the possibility of moving NVDA to Python 3 seemed to
>>>> be only a dream. However, a major hurdle was overcome earlier this
>>>> year when wxPython 4 alpha was released, promising support for Python
>>>> versions 2.7 and 3.x. Apart from a major problem regarding certain
>>>> internal routines from wxPython 4 that may not be compatible with
>>>> NVDA source code, the stage is almost set to begin our transition to
>>>> Python 3, dubbed "Project Pylennium".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Project Pylennium is a new project I'm planning and working on that
>>>> should make it easier for NV Access, code contributors, add-on
>>>> writers, users and many others to experience smooth transition to
>>>> Python 3. The overall goal
>>>>
>>>> of
>>>> this project is to prepare NVDA's source code so it can run on both
>>>> Python
>>>>
>>>> 2
>>>> and 3 in most cases until developers are ready to move on. This
>>>> project also seeks to uncover possible compatibility issues for NVDA
>>>> community when the transition happens, and to document these findings
>>>> so it can serve as guidelines to current and future developers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The current iteration of Project Pylennium (based on NVDA GitHub issue
>>>> 7105
>>>> as a roadmap) can be found on my copy of NVDA source code at:
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/josephsl/nvda
>>>>
>>>> The branch to use is "py3000".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Project pylennium involves the following:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Gather dependencies required for Python 3 transition, such as newer
>>>> versions of Python, ConfigObj and many others. A crucial dependency is
>>>> the
>>>> Six module, which adds compatibility layer functions for both Python 2
>>>> and
>>>> 3.
>>>> 2. Document porting notes, which will eventually be published on our
>>>> NVDA Community wiki.
>>>> 3. Create source-level compatibility layer in order to mitigate changes
>>>> in module names, standard library folder structure, function and class
>>>> names
>>>> and so on.
>>>> 4. Migrate most code to Python 3 syntax.
>>>> 5. Frequent and regular testing to make sure regressions are not
>>>> introduced.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Progress so far:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Imports: a compatibility layer is in place to import Python 2 or 3
>>>> version of winreg, pickle, io.StringIO and what not.
>>>> 2. Compiles fine via SCons 2.x.
>>>> 3. Possible to see the first initialization phase of NVDA launcher
>>>> (nvda.pyw) via command line. The biggest showstopper at this time is
>>>> the
>>>> fact that logHandler.StreamHandler constructor uses file function when
>>>> Python 3 says it isn't available, which suggests we need to
>>>> modernize log
>>>> handler module.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Benefits:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Allows NV Access to look at porting data and make informed
>>>> decisions.
>>>> 2. Allows contributors and Python experts to provide expertise and
>>>> prepare the source code for Python 3 transition.
>>>> 3. Allows add-on authors to look at changes and prepare their add-ons
>>>> to run on Python 3.
>>>> 4. Allows interested users to be involved in a major project and
>>>> provide test data.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Disadvantages:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. We need to part ways with Windows XP and Server 2003.
>>>> 2. Stress throughout the project, as it is nothing like what we've seen
>>>> recently.
>>>> 3. Some add-ons will need community intervention to get them to run on
>>>> Python 3, as some are abandonware (no longer maintained by authors
>>>> or the
>>>> add-ons community don't know who wrote some of them and lost contact
>>>> with
>>>> some authors).
>>>> 4. Possible issues in code and other ones, especially when looking at
>>>> code and attitude conflicts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Next steps:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. I'm looking for volunteers and subproject leads: if you are
>>>> passionate about Python, NVDA, and want to help NVDA achieve the next
>>>> milestone, please help and find folks who can assist in this
>>>> project. In
>>>> regards to subprojects, mostly have to do with dependency checks and
>>>> tests,
>>>> testing, documentation, talking to Python Software Foundation (PSF),
>>>> recruiting Python experts and what not.
>>>> 2. Cooperation: as Project Pylennium is a grand-scale project, we
>>>> cannot move forward and make it a reality unless cooperation between
>>>> developers, add-on authors, users, observers and many others is there.
>>>> 3. Promote: one way to keep the momentum going is promoting this
>>>> project far and wide.
>>>> 4. Continued work: I'm looking into how to port urllib imports, as this
>>>> module has seen huge folder restructuring in Python 3 and other work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What you'll need for this project:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Python 3.6.0 32-bit or later (3.6.2 is recommended).
>>>> 2. wxPython 4 alpha 3 or later with the wheel for Python 3.5 or 3.6.
>>>> 3. Six module (from PYPI).
>>>> 4. ConfigObj 5.0.6.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Guidelines:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. When sending pull requests, please do NOT send them to NV Access
>>>> yet, as folks over there are working on high priority work. Instead,
>>>> send
>>>>
>>>> a
>>>> pull request against josephsl/nvda branch py3000.
>>>> 2. Please provide a clear commit message when sending in pull requests
>>>> so folks can track what has changed.
>>>> 3. Before you commit, please make sure to test NVDA in order to catch
>>>> regressions and write workarounds.
>>>> 4. At least once a month, I will merge NV Access master branch to keep
>>>> the code up to date and incorporate changes into this project,
>>>> sometimes
>>>> requiring transforming syntax to fit Python 3 requirements.
>>>> 5. If you want to port add-ons, please do so at your earliest
>>>> convenience or when you are ready. As part of this work, I myself will
>>>> port
>>>> my own add-ons to Python 3 (one of them is done; throughout this year,
>>>> I'll
>>>> port rest of my add-ons). Please do not port your add-ons to Python 3
>>>> completely - I recommend making it so it'll run happily on both Python
>>>> versions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org





Re: Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

 

i use xp, love it and dont believe negative statement against it.
its realy great operating system forever.

On 7/24/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Well I wouldn't use xp for the net anymore its far to insecure for that.

However its good for all those 32 bit programs you need to use, ie old
games especially those that use directx 8 or whatever that is.

They are also usefull well xp is for old nokia 32 bit apps and other
older games.




On 24/07/2017 7:52 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I think at present at least, XP is not really very good for web
browsing any more due to the tendency for even the working third party
browsers to be quite slow on single core machines of that vintage.

It is however still a joy to use for those of us who hate all the
issues over too much security on single user computers that 7 8 and
now 10 impose on us all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
<joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code
base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Hi,
NV Access said they'll support XP as long as possible, but it won't be
forever. I'm using Python 3.4 and 3.6 internally for this reason.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code
base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

thanks for good news joseph and brian.
do you continue supporting of xp?
i became worried when i read the message for the first time.
God bless you all!

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Sounds sensible. At least this will preserve xp etc with the old
Python for

as long as possible. One thing you do not say, which may be obvious to
you,

but perhaps not to the average user is..
What are the reasons for change.
is it that its going to be faster, 64 bit or has better ways of doing
stuff

nvda needs to be able to do in the future?
Obviously not in your remit is that at some point an agreed last
working version of the old NVDA that can work on xp etc is going to
have to be made

available and then when add ons are updated, those that will and won't
run on the old version will need to be noted and if possible trapped
by the old

version so it cannot be scrambled by an add on.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:55 AM
Subject: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base,
dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Ladies and gentlemen,



Some of you have been asking NV Access and the global NVDA community
regarding porting NVDA source code and dependencies to Python 3. I
and some contributors have been brainstorming best ways to accomplish
this, and NV Access, contributors, some add-on writers, users, and
NVDA observers agree that it is important that we look into
eventually porting NVDA to Python 3.



Until recently, the possibility of moving NVDA to Python 3 seemed to
be only a dream. However, a major hurdle was overcome earlier this
year when wxPython 4 alpha was released, promising support for Python
versions 2.7 and 3.x. Apart from a major problem regarding certain
internal routines from wxPython 4 that may not be compatible with
NVDA source code, the stage is almost set to begin our transition to
Python 3, dubbed "Project Pylennium".



Project Pylennium is a new project I'm planning and working on that
should make it easier for NV Access, code contributors, add-on
writers, users and many others to experience smooth transition to
Python 3. The overall goal

of
this project is to prepare NVDA's source code so it can run on both
Python

2
and 3 in most cases until developers are ready to move on. This
project also seeks to uncover possible compatibility issues for NVDA
community when the transition happens, and to document these findings
so it can serve as guidelines to current and future developers.



The current iteration of Project Pylennium (based on NVDA GitHub issue
7105
as a roadmap) can be found on my copy of NVDA source code at:

https://github.com/josephsl/nvda

The branch to use is "py3000".



Project pylennium involves the following:



1. Gather dependencies required for Python 3 transition, such as newer
versions of Python, ConfigObj and many others. A crucial dependency is
the
Six module, which adds compatibility layer functions for both Python 2
and
3.
2. Document porting notes, which will eventually be published on our
NVDA Community wiki.
3. Create source-level compatibility layer in order to mitigate changes
in module names, standard library folder structure, function and class
names
and so on.
4. Migrate most code to Python 3 syntax.
5. Frequent and regular testing to make sure regressions are not
introduced.



Progress so far:



1. Imports: a compatibility layer is in place to import Python 2 or 3
version of winreg, pickle, io.StringIO and what not.
2. Compiles fine via SCons 2.x.
3. Possible to see the first initialization phase of NVDA launcher
(nvda.pyw) via command line. The biggest showstopper at this time is
the
fact that logHandler.StreamHandler constructor uses file function when
Python 3 says it isn't available, which suggests we need to
modernize log
handler module.



Benefits:



1. Allows NV Access to look at porting data and make informed
decisions.
2. Allows contributors and Python experts to provide expertise and
prepare the source code for Python 3 transition.
3. Allows add-on authors to look at changes and prepare their add-ons
to run on Python 3.
4. Allows interested users to be involved in a major project and
provide test data.



Disadvantages:



1. We need to part ways with Windows XP and Server 2003.
2. Stress throughout the project, as it is nothing like what we've seen
recently.
3. Some add-ons will need community intervention to get them to run on
Python 3, as some are abandonware (no longer maintained by authors
or the
add-ons community don't know who wrote some of them and lost contact
with
some authors).
4. Possible issues in code and other ones, especially when looking at
code and attitude conflicts.



Next steps:



1. I'm looking for volunteers and subproject leads: if you are
passionate about Python, NVDA, and want to help NVDA achieve the next
milestone, please help and find folks who can assist in this
project. In
regards to subprojects, mostly have to do with dependency checks and
tests,
testing, documentation, talking to Python Software Foundation (PSF),
recruiting Python experts and what not.
2. Cooperation: as Project Pylennium is a grand-scale project, we
cannot move forward and make it a reality unless cooperation between
developers, add-on authors, users, observers and many others is there.
3. Promote: one way to keep the momentum going is promoting this
project far and wide.
4. Continued work: I'm looking into how to port urllib imports, as this
module has seen huge folder restructuring in Python 3 and other work.



What you'll need for this project:



1. Python 3.6.0 32-bit or later (3.6.2 is recommended).
2. wxPython 4 alpha 3 or later with the wheel for Python 3.5 or 3.6.
3. Six module (from PYPI).
4. ConfigObj 5.0.6.



Guidelines:



1. When sending pull requests, please do NOT send them to NV Access
yet, as folks over there are working on high priority work. Instead,
send

a
pull request against josephsl/nvda branch py3000.
2. Please provide a clear commit message when sending in pull requests
so folks can track what has changed.
3. Before you commit, please make sure to test NVDA in order to catch
regressions and write workarounds.
4. At least once a month, I will merge NV Access master branch to keep
the code up to date and incorporate changes into this project,
sometimes
requiring transforming syntax to fit Python 3 requirements.
5. If you want to port add-ons, please do so at your earliest
convenience or when you are ready. As part of this work, I myself will
port
my own add-ons to Python 3 (one of them is done; throughout this year,
I'll
port rest of my add-ons). Please do not port your add-ons to Python 3
completely - I recommend making it so it'll run happily on both Python
versions.



Thank you.

Sincerely,

Joseph







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!

Chris
 

What build are you running?

Older builds have this issue.  

Best to upgrade to the latest build and go from there

 

 

 

From: Mailing Lists
Sent: 24 July 2017 11:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!

 

Hi All,

 

Got a new desktop, never used before and first thing I did was to install NVDA latest version. After navigating around the main desktop and some of the windows 10 settings screens I kept getting NVDA announcing, "Unknown" all the time as I tabbed and so on. I disabled any lock screens, screen savers and the like. I also uninstalled and reinstalled the video card which is an Intel HD 630.

After doing all the above I uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but still no success. Even when I go onto the Taskbar and arrow along it, NVDA just announces, "Unknown". On the main desktop screen when I open up a context menu there is nothing, NVDA doesn't announce any of the menus options, not even announce that the menu is in fact open.

Just wondered if there were any suggestions as to what might be going on here.

 

Many thanks for a great list and wonderful program such as NVDA.

 

Paul.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

 

Well I wouldn't use xp for the net anymore its far to insecure for that.

However its good for all those 32 bit programs you need to use, ie old games especially those that use directx 8 or whatever that is.

They are also usefull well xp is for old nokia 32 bit apps and other older games.

On 24/07/2017 7:52 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I think at present at least, XP is not really very good for web browsing any more due to the tendency for even the working third party browsers to be quite slow on single core machines of that vintage.

It is however still a joy to use for those of us who hate all the issues over too much security on single user computers that 7 8 and now 10 impose on us all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Hi,
NV Access said they'll support XP as long as possible, but it won't be forever. I'm using Python 3.4 and 3.6 internally for this reason.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

thanks for good news joseph and brian.
do you continue supporting of xp?
i became worried when i read the message for the first time.
God bless you all!

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Sounds sensible. At least this will preserve xp etc with the old
Python for

as long as possible. One thing you do not say, which may be obvious to
you,

but perhaps not to the average user is..
What are the reasons for change.
is it that its going to be faster, 64 bit or has better ways of doing
stuff

nvda needs to be able to do in the future?
Obviously not in your remit is that at some point an agreed last
working version of the old NVDA that can work on xp etc is going to
have to be made

available and then when add ons are updated, those that will and won't
run on the old version will need to be noted and if possible trapped
by the old

version so it cannot be scrambled by an add on.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:55 AM
Subject: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base,
dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Ladies and gentlemen,



Some of you have been asking NV Access and the global NVDA community
regarding porting NVDA source code and dependencies to Python 3. I
and some contributors have been brainstorming best ways to accomplish
this, and NV Access, contributors, some add-on writers, users, and
NVDA observers agree that it is important that we look into
eventually porting NVDA to Python 3.



Until recently, the possibility of moving NVDA to Python 3 seemed to
be only a dream. However, a major hurdle was overcome earlier this
year when wxPython 4 alpha was released, promising support for Python
versions 2.7 and 3.x. Apart from a major problem regarding certain
internal routines from wxPython 4 that may not be compatible with
NVDA source code, the stage is almost set to begin our transition to
Python 3, dubbed "Project Pylennium".



Project Pylennium is a new project I'm planning and working on that
should make it easier for NV Access, code contributors, add-on
writers, users and many others to experience smooth transition to
Python 3. The overall goal

of
this project is to prepare NVDA's source code so it can run on both
Python

2
and 3 in most cases until developers are ready to move on. This
project also seeks to uncover possible compatibility issues for NVDA
community when the transition happens, and to document these findings
so it can serve as guidelines to current and future developers.



The current iteration of Project Pylennium (based on NVDA GitHub issue
7105
as a roadmap) can be found on my copy of NVDA source code at:

https://github.com/josephsl/nvda

The branch to use is "py3000".



Project pylennium involves the following:



1. Gather dependencies required for Python 3 transition, such as newer
versions of Python, ConfigObj and many others. A crucial dependency is
the
Six module, which adds compatibility layer functions for both Python 2
and
3.
2. Document porting notes, which will eventually be published on our
NVDA Community wiki.
3. Create source-level compatibility layer in order to mitigate changes
in module names, standard library folder structure, function and class
names
and so on.
4. Migrate most code to Python 3 syntax.
5. Frequent and regular testing to make sure regressions are not
introduced.



Progress so far:



1. Imports: a compatibility layer is in place to import Python 2 or 3
version of winreg, pickle, io.StringIO and what not.
2. Compiles fine via SCons 2.x.
3. Possible to see the first initialization phase of NVDA launcher
(nvda.pyw) via command line. The biggest showstopper at this time is the
fact that logHandler.StreamHandler constructor uses file function when
Python 3 says it isn't available, which suggests we need to modernize log
handler module.



Benefits:



1. Allows NV Access to look at porting data and make informed
decisions.
2. Allows contributors and Python experts to provide expertise and
prepare the source code for Python 3 transition.
3. Allows add-on authors to look at changes and prepare their add-ons
to run on Python 3.
4. Allows interested users to be involved in a major project and
provide test data.



Disadvantages:



1. We need to part ways with Windows XP and Server 2003.
2. Stress throughout the project, as it is nothing like what we've seen
recently.
3. Some add-ons will need community intervention to get them to run on
Python 3, as some are abandonware (no longer maintained by authors or the
add-ons community don't know who wrote some of them and lost contact with
some authors).
4. Possible issues in code and other ones, especially when looking at
code and attitude conflicts.



Next steps:



1. I'm looking for volunteers and subproject leads: if you are
passionate about Python, NVDA, and want to help NVDA achieve the next
milestone, please help and find folks who can assist in this project. In
regards to subprojects, mostly have to do with dependency checks and
tests,
testing, documentation, talking to Python Software Foundation (PSF),
recruiting Python experts and what not.
2. Cooperation: as Project Pylennium is a grand-scale project, we
cannot move forward and make it a reality unless cooperation between
developers, add-on authors, users, observers and many others is there.
3. Promote: one way to keep the momentum going is promoting this
project far and wide.
4. Continued work: I'm looking into how to port urllib imports, as this
module has seen huge folder restructuring in Python 3 and other work.



What you'll need for this project:



1. Python 3.6.0 32-bit or later (3.6.2 is recommended).
2. wxPython 4 alpha 3 or later with the wheel for Python 3.5 or 3.6.
3. Six module (from PYPI).
4. ConfigObj 5.0.6.



Guidelines:



1. When sending pull requests, please do NOT send them to NV Access
yet, as folks over there are working on high priority work. Instead, send

a
pull request against josephsl/nvda branch py3000.
2. Please provide a clear commit message when sending in pull requests
so folks can track what has changed.
3. Before you commit, please make sure to test NVDA in order to catch
regressions and write workarounds.
4. At least once a month, I will merge NV Access master branch to keep
the code up to date and incorporate changes into this project, sometimes
requiring transforming syntax to fit Python 3 requirements.
5. If you want to port add-ons, please do so at your earliest
convenience or when you are ready. As part of this work, I myself will
port
my own add-ons to Python 3 (one of them is done; throughout this year,
I'll
port rest of my add-ons). Please do not port your add-ons to Python 3
completely - I recommend making it so it'll run happily on both Python
versions.



Thank you.

Sincerely,

Joseph





Re: Several windows 10 users have got..

The Gamages
 

Hello
 
Yes is the answer.
 
Best Regards, Jim.
 

Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..
 

So when you got the Settings page loaded, did you tab out of the search box down to the list of categories, arrow to and activate the one entitled ‘Privacy’ and explore the list of 18 configurable privacy related items?

 

Cheers

Chris    

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: 24 July 2017 09:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hello,

No re starting doesn’t do anything, maybe another update problem? [smile].

I have got to the settings with windows X etc as suggested by another list member, it is the same place I got to with the search.

I haven’t changed anything here, it’s dificult to see what changing anything will do overall, so best to play safe and leave it alone.

Which brings me back to my original point, if we can’t choose what updates we want, how can we change settings  without incurring unforseen results?

Thanks everyone who has had patience with me on this issue, I will now desist and get on with my life.

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 7:10 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hi,

Does a computer restart help?

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hello,

 

sorry, windows plus I does nothing.

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 6:21 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got.

 

Hi,

Ah, that…

The fastest way to get there, besides searching for it is pressing Windows+I, press TAB to go to categories, then press right arrow until you arrive at Privacy. Press ENTER, and press TAB to go to subcategories. For each category, press ENTER and press TAB to go through settings.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 4:57 AM
To: mailto:nvda@...
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hello Joseph,

 

O K, I will take the hit here,there must be others who, like me, have tried to get into the privacy settings without success, I typed “privacy settings” into the search box after pressing the windows key, pressing enter on any item does nothing, pressing tab takes me through a lot of other stuff and, to cut a long story short, I can make no sense of it. We are urged to look at all this, but, as in many cases, it is assumed that we have unlimited knowledge of these things.

Am I the only thick one on this list? or would some explanation of how to look at the privacy settings be useful to others, thank you for some simple advice.

 

I do appreciate everything  that yourself and the other developers do for NVDA, but sometimes it gets a bit too technical for me.

Stay well.

 

 

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:02 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hi,

The ultimate idea behind Windows as a Service (WaaS) is to get everyone on the same page, same ecosystem, same principles, and same attitudes:

  • Same page: same or similar compatibility (note that the words “same” and “similar” are two completely different words).
  • Same ecosystem: to reduce fragmentation.
  • Same principles: updates, deployment and what not.
  • Same attitudes: update checks, testing new things as soon as possible and what not.

 

It’s been rough in the start, but as Windows 10 is turning two years old next week, the transition is going well (not smooth, but people are starting to realize implications of this new model). For instance, in the early days, some programs (including one or two antivirus programs) didn’t work well with Windows 10 and WaaS in general; that is changing slowly. When it comes to screen readers, it produced mixed results.

 

Regarding privacy settings: I may need to write this to the Win10 forum later (I cannot talk about this with authority here, as I want to tone down a lot on this forum), but I think it’d be a good idea to review privacy settings before and after new Windows 10 feature updates, as well as meet changes introduced in Settings and other apps.

 

A bit tangent: regarding NVDA’s commitment to Windows 10 and older Windows releases: as long as there is a need to provide accessibility workarounds and until the day third-party (not Microsoft) UWP developers embrace accessibility, I will work on Windows 10 App Essentials. I did put Microsoft in parentheses as Redmond is actively evangelizing accessibility principles, and I have advised them several times to persuade third-party devs to follow their examples. Also, older versions of Windows will be supported as long as possible, although as I said earlier, NVDA developers cannot support old releases forever.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 12:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hello,

 

I bow to your greater experience, but , if we are not capable of choossing relevant updates, how can we be sure that our privacy settings are as they should be.

What about anti virus? I have Eset smart security and have just written to them for their comments, they do turn off some windows stuff  and usually give a message to say that Windows updates are available and should be installed, I’m sure Eset are on top of all this and I will await their reply with interest, if it’s relevant I will pass on anything they say.

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Brian Vogel

Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 5:09 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 08:42 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:

Yes but why is it asking this question. From memory all you usually get is that a new version of it is available with extra features, do you want to now or later etc.

Because people legitimately complained about prior major updates to Windows 10 resetting Privacy (or other) settings as part of the update without any notification whatsoever.  This update also contains several new settings that were not there before, and Microsoft wants you to choose how you'd like those settings to be set so that this can be applied at the end of the update.

I tell everyone that when any of the Version updates takes place to Windows 10 you should always take a few minutes afterward, and that's all it requires, to cruise through every pane in the Privacy settings to ensure that things are set as you'd like them to be.  It also helps you to become more familiar with what you can control and where you need to go to tweak it as far as privacy goes.

And, as Gene has already noted, Windows 10 marked the introduction of Windows as a Service.  You cannot decline updates and if you use any method to rig it such that you don't get them you won't be getting security updates which are absolutely essential unless you're willing to keep reviewing the update catalog and manually downloading and applying same.  I'd rather not have to do that and my own professional experience informs my opinion that Microsoft, or any operating system creator and maintainer, knows a lot better than I do about what needs to be updated with their operating systems  Nobody has put it better than one of the BSOD experts on BleepingComputer.com with regard to Windows Updates, regardless of the version of Windows under discussion:

There really isn't a point to checking for updates and not installing them. . .  It's important to install all available updates. I've been doing this since the days of DOS, and I still don't have the confidence to pick and choose among updates.  There are just too many variables involved - and most people can't evaluate the full consequences of installing/not installing updates.

        ~ John Carrona, AKA usasma on BleepingComputer.com, http://www.carrona.org/
 
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            ~ Niels Bohr

 

 


NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!

Mailing Lists
 

Hi All,

Got a new desktop, never used before and first thing I did was to install NVDA latest version. After navigating around the main desktop and some of the windows 10 settings screens I kept getting NVDA announcing, "Unknown" all the time as I tabbed and so on. I disabled any lock screens, screen savers and the like. I also uninstalled and reinstalled the video card which is an Intel HD 630.
After doing all the above I uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but still no success. Even when I go onto the Taskbar and arrow along it, NVDA just announces, "Unknown". On the main desktop screen when I open up a context menu there is nothing, NVDA doesn't announce any of the menus options, not even announce that the menu is in fact open.
Just wondered if there were any suggestions as to what might be going on here.

Many thanks for a great list and wonderful program such as NVDA.

Paul.


Re: Several windows 10 users have got..

Chris Mullins
 

So when you got the Settings page loaded, did you tab out of the search box down to the list of categories, arrow to and activate the one entitled ‘Privacy’ and explore the list of 18 configurable privacy related items?

 

Cheers

Chris     

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: 24 July 2017 09:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hello,

No re starting doesn’t do anything, maybe another update problem? [smile].

I have got to the settings with windows X etc as suggested by another list member, it is the same place I got to with the search.

I haven’t changed anything here, it’s dificult to see what changing anything will do overall, so best to play safe and leave it alone.

Which brings me back to my original point, if we can’t choose what updates we want, how can we change settings  without incurring unforseen results?

Thanks everyone who has had patience with me on this issue, I will now desist and get on with my life.

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 7:10 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hi,

Does a computer restart help?

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hello,

 

sorry, windows plus I does nothing.

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 6:21 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got.

 

Hi,

Ah, that…

The fastest way to get there, besides searching for it is pressing Windows+I, press TAB to go to categories, then press right arrow until you arrive at Privacy. Press ENTER, and press TAB to go to subcategories. For each category, press ENTER and press TAB to go through settings.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 4:57 AM
To: mailto:nvda@...
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hello Joseph,

 

O K, I will take the hit here,there must be others who, like me, have tried to get into the privacy settings without success, I typed “privacy settings” into the search box after pressing the windows key, pressing enter on any item does nothing, pressing tab takes me through a lot of other stuff and, to cut a long story short, I can make no sense of it. We are urged to look at all this, but, as in many cases, it is assumed that we have unlimited knowledge of these things.

Am I the only thick one on this list? or would some explanation of how to look at the privacy settings be useful to others, thank you for some simple advice.

 

I do appreciate everything  that yourself and the other developers do for NVDA, but sometimes it gets a bit too technical for me.

Stay well.

 

 

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:02 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hi,

The ultimate idea behind Windows as a Service (WaaS) is to get everyone on the same page, same ecosystem, same principles, and same attitudes:

  • Same page: same or similar compatibility (note that the words “same” and “similar” are two completely different words).
  • Same ecosystem: to reduce fragmentation.
  • Same principles: updates, deployment and what not.
  • Same attitudes: update checks, testing new things as soon as possible and what not.

 

It’s been rough in the start, but as Windows 10 is turning two years old next week, the transition is going well (not smooth, but people are starting to realize implications of this new model). For instance, in the early days, some programs (including one or two antivirus programs) didn’t work well with Windows 10 and WaaS in general; that is changing slowly. When it comes to screen readers, it produced mixed results.

 

Regarding privacy settings: I may need to write this to the Win10 forum later (I cannot talk about this with authority here, as I want to tone down a lot on this forum), but I think it’d be a good idea to review privacy settings before and after new Windows 10 feature updates, as well as meet changes introduced in Settings and other apps.

 

A bit tangent: regarding NVDA’s commitment to Windows 10 and older Windows releases: as long as there is a need to provide accessibility workarounds and until the day third-party (not Microsoft) UWP developers embrace accessibility, I will work on Windows 10 App Essentials. I did put Microsoft in parentheses as Redmond is actively evangelizing accessibility principles, and I have advised them several times to persuade third-party devs to follow their examples. Also, older versions of Windows will be supported as long as possible, although as I said earlier, NVDA developers cannot support old releases forever.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 12:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hello,

 

I bow to your greater experience, but , if we are not capable of choossing relevant updates, how can we be sure that our privacy settings are as they should be.

What about anti virus? I have Eset smart security and have just written to them for their comments, they do turn off some windows stuff  and usually give a message to say that Windows updates are available and should be installed, I’m sure Eset are on top of all this and I will await their reply with interest, if it’s relevant I will pass on anything they say.

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 5:09 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 08:42 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:

Yes but why is it asking this question. From memory all you usually get is that a new version of it is available with extra features, do you want to now or later etc.

Because people legitimately complained about prior major updates to Windows 10 resetting Privacy (or other) settings as part of the update without any notification whatsoever.  This update also contains several new settings that were not there before, and Microsoft wants you to choose how you'd like those settings to be set so that this can be applied at the end of the update.

I tell everyone that when any of the Version updates takes place to Windows 10 you should always take a few minutes afterward, and that's all it requires, to cruise through every pane in the Privacy settings to ensure that things are set as you'd like them to be.  It also helps you to become more familiar with what you can control and where you need to go to tweak it as far as privacy goes.

And, as Gene has already noted, Windows 10 marked the introduction of Windows as a Service.  You cannot decline updates and if you use any method to rig it such that you don't get them you won't be getting security updates which are absolutely essential unless you're willing to keep reviewing the update catalog and manually downloading and applying same.  I'd rather not have to do that and my own professional experience informs my opinion that Microsoft, or any operating system creator and maintainer, knows a lot better than I do about what needs to be updated with their operating systems  Nobody has put it better than one of the BSOD experts on BleepingComputer.com with regard to Windows Updates, regardless of the version of Windows under discussion:

There really isn't a point to checking for updates and not installing them. . .  It's important to install all available updates. I've been doing this since the days of DOS, and I still don't have the confidence to pick and choose among updates.  There are just too many variables involved - and most people can't evaluate the full consequences of installing/not installing updates.

        ~ John Carrona, AKA usasma on BleepingComputer.com, http://www.carrona.org/
 
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            ~ Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Several windows 10 users have got..

The Gamages
 

Hello,
No re starting doesn’t do anything, maybe another update problem? [smile].
I have got to the settings with windows X etc as suggested by another list member, it is the same place I got to with the search.
I haven’t changed anything here, it’s dificult to see what changing anything will do overall, so best to play safe and leave it alone.
Which brings me back to my original point, if we can’t choose what updates we want, how can we change settings  without incurring unforseen results?
Thanks everyone who has had patience with me on this issue, I will now desist and get on with my life.
 
Best Regards, Jim.
 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..
 

Hi,

Does a computer restart help?

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hello,

 

sorry, windows plus I does nothing.

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 6:21 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got.

 

Hi,

Ah, that…

The fastest way to get there, besides searching for it is pressing Windows+I, press TAB to go to categories, then press right arrow until you arrive at Privacy. Press ENTER, and press TAB to go to subcategories. For each category, press ENTER and press TAB to go through settings.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 4:57 AM
To: mailto:nvda@...
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hello Joseph,

 

O K, I will take the hit here,there must be others who, like me, have tried to get into the privacy settings without success, I typed “privacy settings” into the search box after pressing the windows key, pressing enter on any item does nothing, pressing tab takes me through a lot of other stuff and, to cut a long story short, I can make no sense of it. We are urged to look at all this, but, as in many cases, it is assumed that we have unlimited knowledge of these things.

Am I the only thick one on this list? or would some explanation of how to look at the privacy settings be useful to others, thank you for some simple advice.

 

I do appreciate everything  that yourself and the other developers do for NVDA, but sometimes it gets a bit too technical for me.

Stay well.

 

 

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:02 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hi,

The ultimate idea behind Windows as a Service (WaaS) is to get everyone on the same page, same ecosystem, same principles, and same attitudes:

  • Same page: same or similar compatibility (note that the words “same” and “similar” are two completely different words).
  • Same ecosystem: to reduce fragmentation.
  • Same principles: updates, deployment and what not.
  • Same attitudes: update checks, testing new things as soon as possible and what not.

 

It’s been rough in the start, but as Windows 10 is turning two years old next week, the transition is going well (not smooth, but people are starting to realize implications of this new model). For instance, in the early days, some programs (including one or two antivirus programs) didn’t work well with Windows 10 and WaaS in general; that is changing slowly. When it comes to screen readers, it produced mixed results.

 

Regarding privacy settings: I may need to write this to the Win10 forum later (I cannot talk about this with authority here, as I want to tone down a lot on this forum), but I think it’d be a good idea to review privacy settings before and after new Windows 10 feature updates, as well as meet changes introduced in Settings and other apps.

 

A bit tangent: regarding NVDA’s commitment to Windows 10 and older Windows releases: as long as there is a need to provide accessibility workarounds and until the day third-party (not Microsoft) UWP developers embrace accessibility, I will work on Windows 10 App Essentials. I did put Microsoft in parentheses as Redmond is actively evangelizing accessibility principles, and I have advised them several times to persuade third-party devs to follow their examples. Also, older versions of Windows will be supported as long as possible, although as I said earlier, NVDA developers cannot support old releases forever.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 12:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hello,

 

I bow to your greater experience, but , if we are not capable of choossing relevant updates, how can we be sure that our privacy settings are as they should be.

What about anti virus? I have Eset smart security and have just written to them for their comments, they do turn off some windows stuff  and usually give a message to say that Windows updates are available and should be installed, I’m sure Eset are on top of all this and I will await their reply with interest, if it’s relevant I will pass on anything they say.

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Brian Vogel

Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 5:09 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..

 

On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 08:42 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:

Yes but why is it asking this question. From memory all you usually get is that a new version of it is available with extra features, do you want to now or later etc.

Because people legitimately complained about prior major updates to Windows 10 resetting Privacy (or other) settings as part of the update without any notification whatsoever.  This update also contains several new settings that were not there before, and Microsoft wants you to choose how you'd like those settings to be set so that this can be applied at the end of the update.

I tell everyone that when any of the Version updates takes place to Windows 10 you should always take a few minutes afterward, and that's all it requires, to cruise through every pane in the Privacy settings to ensure that things are set as you'd like them to be.  It also helps you to become more familiar with what you can control and where you need to go to tweak it as far as privacy goes.

And, as Gene has already noted, Windows 10 marked the introduction of Windows as a Service.  You cannot decline updates and if you use any method to rig it such that you don't get them you won't be getting security updates which are absolutely essential unless you're willing to keep reviewing the update catalog and manually downloading and applying same.  I'd rather not have to do that and my own professional experience informs my opinion that Microsoft, or any operating system creator and maintainer, knows a lot better than I do about what needs to be updated with their operating systems  Nobody has put it better than one of the BSOD experts on BleepingComputer.com with regard to Windows Updates, regardless of the version of Windows under discussion:

There really isn't a point to checking for updates and not installing them. . .  It's important to install all available updates. I've been doing this since the days of DOS, and I still don't have the confidence to pick and choose among updates.  There are just too many variables involved - and most people can't evaluate the full consequences of installing/not installing updates.

        ~ John Carrona, AKA usasma on BleepingComputer.com, http://www.carrona.org/
 
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            ~ Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

Gene
 

What issues?  I find browsing to b the same interms of technique and I have no problems with security constraints. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

I think at present at least, XP is not really very good for web browsing any
more due to the tendency for even the working third party browsers to be
quite slow on single core machines of that vintage.

It is however still a joy to use for those of us who hate all the issues
over too much security on single user computers that 7 8 and now 10 impose
on us all.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base,
dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Hi,
NV Access said they'll support XP as long as possible, but it won't be
forever. I'm using Python 3.4 and 3.6 internally for this reason.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin
khaksar
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base,
dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

thanks for good news joseph and brian.
do you continue supporting of xp?
i became worried when i read the message for the first time.
God bless you all!

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...> wrote:
> Sounds sensible. At least this will preserve xp etc with the old
> Python for
>
> as long as possible. One thing you do not say, which may be obvious to
> you,
>
> but perhaps not to the average user is..
>  What are the reasons for change.
>  is it that its going to be faster, 64 bit or has better ways of doing
> stuff
>
> nvda needs to be able to do in the future?
>  Obviously not in your remit is that at some point an agreed last
> working version of the old NVDA that can work on xp etc is going to
> have to be made
>
> available and then when add ons are updated, those that will and won't
> run on the old version will need to be  noted and if possible trapped
> by the old
>
> version so it cannot be scrambled by an add on.
>
>
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:55 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base,
> dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x
>
>
>> Ladies and gentlemen,
>>
>>
>>
>> Some of you have been asking NV Access and the global NVDA community
>> regarding porting NVDA source code and dependencies to Python 3. I
>> and some contributors have been brainstorming best ways to accomplish
>> this, and NV Access, contributors, some add-on writers, users, and
>> NVDA observers agree that it is important that we look into
>> eventually porting NVDA to Python 3.
>>
>>
>>
>> Until recently, the possibility of moving NVDA to Python 3 seemed to
>> be only a dream. However, a major hurdle was overcome earlier this
>> year when wxPython 4 alpha was released, promising support for Python
>> versions 2.7 and 3.x. Apart from a major problem regarding certain
>> internal routines from wxPython 4 that may not be compatible with
>> NVDA source code, the stage is almost set to begin our transition to
>> Python 3, dubbed "Project Pylennium".
>>
>>
>>
>> Project Pylennium is a new project I'm planning and working on that
>> should make it easier for NV Access, code contributors, add-on
>> writers, users and many others to experience smooth transition to
>> Python 3. The overall goal
>>
>> of
>> this project is to prepare NVDA's source code so it can run on both
>> Python
>>
>> 2
>> and 3 in most cases until developers are ready to move on. This
>> project also seeks to uncover possible compatibility issues for NVDA
>> community when the transition happens, and to document these findings
>> so it can serve as guidelines to current and future developers.
>>
>>
>>
>> The current iteration of Project Pylennium (based on NVDA GitHub issue
>> 7105
>> as a roadmap) can be found on my copy of NVDA source code at:
>>
>> https://github.com/josephsl/nvda
>>
>> The branch to use is "py3000".
>>
>>
>>
>> Project pylennium involves the following:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Gather dependencies required for Python 3 transition, such as newer
>> versions of Python, ConfigObj and many others. A crucial dependency is
>> the
>> Six module, which adds compatibility layer functions for both Python 2
>> and
>> 3.
>> 2. Document porting notes, which will eventually be published on our
>> NVDA Community wiki.
>> 3. Create source-level compatibility layer in order to mitigate changes
>> in module names, standard library folder structure, function and class
>> names
>> and so on.
>> 4. Migrate most code to Python 3 syntax.
>> 5. Frequent and regular testing to make sure regressions are not
>> introduced.
>>
>>
>>
>> Progress so far:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Imports: a compatibility layer is in place to import Python 2 or 3
>> version of winreg, pickle, io.StringIO and what not.
>> 2. Compiles fine via SCons 2.x.
>> 3. Possible to see the first initialization phase of NVDA launcher
>> (nvda.pyw) via command line. The biggest showstopper at this time is the
>> fact that logHandler.StreamHandler constructor uses file function when
>> Python 3 says it isn't available, which suggests we need to modernize log
>> handler module.
>>
>>
>>
>> Benefits:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Allows NV Access to look at porting data and make informed
>> decisions.
>> 2. Allows contributors and Python experts to provide expertise and
>> prepare the source code for Python 3 transition.
>> 3. Allows add-on authors to look at changes and prepare their add-ons
>> to run on Python 3.
>> 4. Allows interested users to be involved in a major project and
>> provide test data.
>>
>>
>>
>> Disadvantages:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. We need to part ways with Windows XP and Server 2003.
>> 2. Stress throughout the project, as it is nothing like what we've seen
>> recently.
>> 3. Some add-ons will need community intervention to get them to run on
>> Python 3, as some are abandonware (no longer maintained by authors or the
>> add-ons community don't know who wrote some of them and lost contact with
>> some authors).
>> 4. Possible issues in code and other ones, especially when looking at
>> code and attitude conflicts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Next steps:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. I'm looking for volunteers and subproject leads: if you are
>> passionate about Python, NVDA, and want to help NVDA achieve the next
>> milestone, please help and find folks who can assist in this project. In
>> regards to subprojects, mostly have to do with dependency checks and
>> tests,
>> testing, documentation, talking to Python Software Foundation (PSF),
>> recruiting Python experts and what not.
>> 2. Cooperation: as Project Pylennium is a grand-scale project, we
>> cannot move forward and make it a reality unless cooperation between
>> developers, add-on authors, users, observers and many others is there.
>> 3. Promote: one way to keep the momentum going is promoting this
>> project far and wide.
>> 4. Continued work: I'm looking into how to port urllib imports, as this
>> module has seen huge folder restructuring in Python 3 and other work.
>>
>>
>>
>> What you'll need for this project:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Python 3.6.0 32-bit or later (3.6.2 is recommended).
>> 2. wxPython 4 alpha 3 or later with the wheel for Python 3.5 or 3.6.
>> 3. Six module (from PYPI).
>> 4. ConfigObj 5.0.6.
>>
>>
>>
>> Guidelines:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. When sending pull requests, please do NOT send them to NV Access
>> yet, as folks over there are working on high priority work. Instead, send
>>
>> a
>> pull request against josephsl/nvda branch py3000.
>> 2. Please provide a clear commit message when sending in pull requests
>> so folks can track what has changed.
>> 3. Before you commit, please make sure to test NVDA in order to catch
>> regressions and write workarounds.
>> 4. At least once a month, I will merge NV Access master branch to keep
>> the code up to date and incorporate changes into this project, sometimes
>> requiring transforming syntax to fit Python 3 requirements.
>> 5. If you want to port add-ons, please do so at your earliest
>> convenience or when you are ready. As part of this work, I myself will
>> port
>> my own add-ons to Python 3 (one of them is done; throughout this year,
>> I'll
>> port rest of my add-ons). Please do not port your add-ons to Python 3
>> completely - I recommend making it so it'll run happily on both Python
>> versions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org









Re: Strange computer behaviour

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Ah yes, I'd go and look at these setting for how you click on things. Not sure if firefox has its own, but certainly windows has and it can create some less than good results if they change it.

It is unfortunate that there is no way to lock many of the changes sighted people make to computers without even thinking about it. I liken it to trying to unscramble a Rubiks Cube blindfolded.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nevzat Adil" <nevzatadil@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange computer behaviour


My browser is Firefox. My daughter used the mouse on my laptop
recently, but she is away for the weekend so I have noone to tell me
what's on the screen when I press enter or spacebar to open a link.
Nevzat

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
What browser is it and have you hada a mouse weilding sighted person near it

recently?
It might be interesting to find out what the log is saying when you press
enter on its own or space bar, which I tend to use for most links these
days.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nevzat Adil" <nevzatadil@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 9:48 PM
Subject: [nvda] Strange computer behaviour


Hello group,
My computer has been acting somewhat strange lately and I m not sure
if this is Windows or NVDA related.
1. When Windows is updating NVDA stop speaking and I have no idea
what's going on.
2. Startin today my laptop would not open a link with just enter but
need to press control+enter.
Any ideas why this is happening and is there a fix?
Nevzat






Re: Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think at present at least, XP is not really very good for web browsing any more due to the tendency for even the working third party browsers to be quite slow on single core machines of that vintage.

It is however still a joy to use for those of us who hate all the issues over too much security on single user computers that 7 8 and now 10 impose on us all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Hi,
NV Access said they'll support XP as long as possible, but it won't be forever. I'm using Python 3.4 and 3.6 internally for this reason.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

thanks for good news joseph and brian.
do you continue supporting of xp?
i became worried when i read the message for the first time.
God bless you all!

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Sounds sensible. At least this will preserve xp etc with the old
Python for

as long as possible. One thing you do not say, which may be obvious to
you,

but perhaps not to the average user is..
What are the reasons for change.
is it that its going to be faster, 64 bit or has better ways of doing
stuff

nvda needs to be able to do in the future?
Obviously not in your remit is that at some point an agreed last
working version of the old NVDA that can work on xp etc is going to
have to be made

available and then when add ons are updated, those that will and won't
run on the old version will need to be noted and if possible trapped
by the old

version so it cannot be scrambled by an add on.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:55 AM
Subject: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base,
dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Ladies and gentlemen,



Some of you have been asking NV Access and the global NVDA community
regarding porting NVDA source code and dependencies to Python 3. I
and some contributors have been brainstorming best ways to accomplish
this, and NV Access, contributors, some add-on writers, users, and
NVDA observers agree that it is important that we look into
eventually porting NVDA to Python 3.



Until recently, the possibility of moving NVDA to Python 3 seemed to
be only a dream. However, a major hurdle was overcome earlier this
year when wxPython 4 alpha was released, promising support for Python
versions 2.7 and 3.x. Apart from a major problem regarding certain
internal routines from wxPython 4 that may not be compatible with
NVDA source code, the stage is almost set to begin our transition to
Python 3, dubbed "Project Pylennium".



Project Pylennium is a new project I'm planning and working on that
should make it easier for NV Access, code contributors, add-on
writers, users and many others to experience smooth transition to
Python 3. The overall goal

of
this project is to prepare NVDA's source code so it can run on both
Python

2
and 3 in most cases until developers are ready to move on. This
project also seeks to uncover possible compatibility issues for NVDA
community when the transition happens, and to document these findings
so it can serve as guidelines to current and future developers.



The current iteration of Project Pylennium (based on NVDA GitHub issue
7105
as a roadmap) can be found on my copy of NVDA source code at:

https://github.com/josephsl/nvda

The branch to use is "py3000".



Project pylennium involves the following:



1. Gather dependencies required for Python 3 transition, such as newer
versions of Python, ConfigObj and many others. A crucial dependency is
the
Six module, which adds compatibility layer functions for both Python 2
and
3.
2. Document porting notes, which will eventually be published on our
NVDA Community wiki.
3. Create source-level compatibility layer in order to mitigate changes
in module names, standard library folder structure, function and class
names
and so on.
4. Migrate most code to Python 3 syntax.
5. Frequent and regular testing to make sure regressions are not
introduced.



Progress so far:



1. Imports: a compatibility layer is in place to import Python 2 or 3
version of winreg, pickle, io.StringIO and what not.
2. Compiles fine via SCons 2.x.
3. Possible to see the first initialization phase of NVDA launcher
(nvda.pyw) via command line. The biggest showstopper at this time is the
fact that logHandler.StreamHandler constructor uses file function when
Python 3 says it isn't available, which suggests we need to modernize log
handler module.



Benefits:



1. Allows NV Access to look at porting data and make informed
decisions.
2. Allows contributors and Python experts to provide expertise and
prepare the source code for Python 3 transition.
3. Allows add-on authors to look at changes and prepare their add-ons
to run on Python 3.
4. Allows interested users to be involved in a major project and
provide test data.



Disadvantages:



1. We need to part ways with Windows XP and Server 2003.
2. Stress throughout the project, as it is nothing like what we've seen
recently.
3. Some add-ons will need community intervention to get them to run on
Python 3, as some are abandonware (no longer maintained by authors or the
add-ons community don't know who wrote some of them and lost contact with
some authors).
4. Possible issues in code and other ones, especially when looking at
code and attitude conflicts.



Next steps:



1. I'm looking for volunteers and subproject leads: if you are
passionate about Python, NVDA, and want to help NVDA achieve the next
milestone, please help and find folks who can assist in this project. In
regards to subprojects, mostly have to do with dependency checks and
tests,
testing, documentation, talking to Python Software Foundation (PSF),
recruiting Python experts and what not.
2. Cooperation: as Project Pylennium is a grand-scale project, we
cannot move forward and make it a reality unless cooperation between
developers, add-on authors, users, observers and many others is there.
3. Promote: one way to keep the momentum going is promoting this
project far and wide.
4. Continued work: I'm looking into how to port urllib imports, as this
module has seen huge folder restructuring in Python 3 and other work.



What you'll need for this project:



1. Python 3.6.0 32-bit or later (3.6.2 is recommended).
2. wxPython 4 alpha 3 or later with the wheel for Python 3.5 or 3.6.
3. Six module (from PYPI).
4. ConfigObj 5.0.6.



Guidelines:



1. When sending pull requests, please do NOT send them to NV Access
yet, as folks over there are working on high priority work. Instead, send

a
pull request against josephsl/nvda branch py3000.
2. Please provide a clear commit message when sending in pull requests
so folks can track what has changed.
3. Before you commit, please make sure to test NVDA in order to catch
regressions and write workarounds.
4. At least once a month, I will merge NV Access master branch to keep
the code up to date and incorporate changes into this project, sometimes
requiring transforming syntax to fit Python 3 requirements.
5. If you want to port add-ons, please do so at your earliest
convenience or when you are ready. As part of this work, I myself will
port
my own add-ons to Python 3 (one of them is done; throughout this year,
I'll
port rest of my add-ons). Please do not port your add-ons to Python 3
completely - I recommend making it so it'll run happily on both Python
versions.



Thank you.

Sincerely,

Joseph





--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


an update on geen's site

Bobby <bvinton@...>
 

Hay I was just at your accessibility senteral site and found out it was a site for down loading books. I was wondering when you will start working on your new web site and up load all your totorials and demos. Pleese keep us posted when ever you do.


Re: Several windows 10 users have got..

 

Hmmm my answers to this are in the comments.

Same page.

Well yes, we hope, as long as things are compatible.

Same ecosystem, I can agree with that its all the same.

Same attitudes.

Excluding the fact edge and some of the universals have a lot that needs work, excluding the cost of jaws, the constant need to spend thousands of dollars on access tech to try to make it run right, excluding that a lot of stuff equally works or doesn't work for us as the case may be, they are on the right track.

Assuming you use classic shell and other hacks to make windows work.

On 23/07/2017 9:02 p.m., Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,

The ultimate idea behind Windows as a Service (WaaS) is to get everyone on the same page, same ecosystem, same principles, and same attitudes:

* Same page: same or similar compatibility (note that the words “same” and “similar” are two completely different words).
* Same ecosystem: to reduce fragmentation.
* Same principles: updates, deployment and what not.
* Same attitudes: update checks, testing new things as soon as possible and what not.


It’s been rough in the start, but as Windows 10 is turning two years old next week, the transition is going well (not smooth, but people are starting to realize implications of this new model). For instance, in the early days, some programs (including one or two antivirus programs) didn’t work well with Windows 10 and WaaS in general; that is changing slowly. When it comes to screen readers, it produced mixed results.


Regarding privacy settings: I may need to write this to the Win10 forum later (I cannot talk about this with authority here, as I want to tone down a lot on this forum), but I think it’d be a good idea to review privacy settings before and after new Windows 10 feature updates, as well as meet changes introduced in Settings and other apps.


A bit tangent: regarding NVDA’s commitment to Windows 10 and older Windows releases: as long as there is a need to provide accessibility workarounds and until the day third-party (not Microsoft) UWP developers embrace accessibility, I will work on Windows 10 App Essentials. I did put Microsoft in parentheses as Redmond is actively evangelizing accessibility principles, and I have advised them several times to persuade third-party devs to follow their examples. Also, older versions of Windows will be supported as long as possible, although as I said earlier, NVDA developers cannot support old releases forever.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 12:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..


Hello,


I bow to your greater experience, but , if we are not capable of choossing relevant updates, how can we be sure that our privacy settings are as they should be.

What about anti virus? I have Eset smart security and have just written to them for their comments, they do turn off some windows stuff and usually give a message to say that Windows updates are available and should be installed, I’m sure Eset are on top of all this and I will await their reply with interest, if it’s relevant I will pass on anything they say.


Best Regards, Jim.


From: Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>

Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 5:09 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] Several windows 10 users have got..


On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 08:42 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:

Yes but why is it asking this question. From memory all you usually get is that a new version of it is available with extra features, do you want to now or later etc.

Because people legitimately complained about prior major updates to Windows 10 resetting Privacy (or other) settings as part of the update without any notification whatsoever. This update also contains several new settings that were not there before, and Microsoft wants you to choose how you'd like those settings to be set so that this can be applied at the end of the update.

I tell everyone that when any of the Version updates takes place to Windows 10 you should always take a few minutes afterward, and that's all it requires, to cruise through every pane in the Privacy settings to ensure that things are set as you'd like them to be. It also helps you to become more familiar with what you can control and where you need to go to tweak it as far as privacy goes.

And, as Gene has already noted, Windows 10 marked the introduction of Windows as a Service. You cannot decline updates and if you use any method to rig it such that you don't get them you won't be getting security updates which are absolutely essential unless you're willing to keep reviewing the update catalog and manually downloading and applying same. I'd rather not have to do that and my own professional experience informs my opinion that Microsoft, or any operating system creator and maintainer, knows a lot better than I do about what needs to be updated with their operating systems. Nobody has put it better than one of the BSOD experts on BleepingComputer.com with regard to Windows Updates, regardless of the version of Windows under discussion:

There really isn't a point to checking for updates and not installing them. . . It's important to install all available updates. I've been doing this since the days of DOS, and I still don't have the confidence to pick and choose among updates. There are just too many variables involved - and most people can't evaluate the full consequences of installing/not installing updates.

~ John Carrona, AKA <https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/u/35824/usasma/> usasma on BleepingComputer.com, <http://www.carrona.org/> http://www.carrona.org/


Re: error updating app essentials

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


When nvda is running press the nvda key + letter N to go into the preferences then arrow right to general settings then down to one called Windows 10 App Essentials...

Once located press the enter key on it. Under there will be options of how often you want it to check etc etc. There is a check forcheck for add update button just press the enter key on it and it will check to see if there is a newer version.

In the add on as well you can have it check every day and also if you want the stable channel or not.


Gene nz

 


On 7/24/2017 12:19 PM, ken lawrence via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi list just now tried to download windows 10 app essentials update an error downloading update happened again. there is nothing else running on my computer. how do I find the check for updates in app essentials.

--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


error updating app essentials

ken lawrence
 

Hi list just now tried to download windows 10 app essentials update an error downloading update happened again. there is nothing else running on my computer. how do I find the check for updates in app essentials.