Date   

Re: question please, Re: [nvda] accessing jean's sight.

David Moore
 

Hi Gene NZ!

I downloaded the Drop Box Zip  file. And I have 57 HTML files, that all open great!

I was able to get to all of the tutorials and all other information. Thanks a lot, Gene NZ! I am so happy that I have all of these tutorials right on my computer now in HTML form. Thank you so much for giving us that zip file to download.

Have a great one, and I hope your site gets straightened out soon.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 12:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: question please, Re: [nvda] accessing jean's sight.

 

I see that the file is only 1.1mb, which is much smaller than I anticipated.  But it still might be worth considering data restrictions unless you are using the paid account in which case, I suspect they won't matter.  But I'm not sure.

 

At any rate, you may have already thought about these things and you may have determined that there is no cause for concern.  I'll be looking forward to your reply.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 10:50 PM

Subject: Re: question please, Re: [nvda] accessing jean's sight.

 

Hi guys

 

it is gene from New Zealand who has the Accessibility Central.net website that is been diverted at the moment. it is not my website so please do not go to it just in case.

 

until it is sorted out or hosted elsewhere i have zipped the website up in a program called 7 zip file manager which was used to do it.

 

you might need a program like that to access the contents of it.

you might have to make a folder first then put all the files into it.

then it is a matter of going to the index file and pressing the enter key on it. to get to the information.


the zip file has been scanned with anti virus and malware programs and it says it is clean.

If you want to download the zip file it is going to be put into a drop box account which i will share on this list if you want it until this is sorted out.

the drop box link is https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujcz7ui1i7qxp58/Accessibility%20Central%20Website.zip?dl=0
the copy or back up is from the 19 th of July if it is all there and it looks like it.
not the thing i would usually do but just in case the info is lost for any reason i would hate it not been shared as it was doing for the community.

Gene nz

On 7/23/2017 1:54 PM, Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io wrote:

Hi,
 
Could someone please post how to remove a bookmark in firefox?
I want to remove my bookmark for now to avoid clicking on the tutorial page until it is safe again.
Thanks.
 
It is totally rotten that anyone would hijack such a thoughtfully arranged resource for us.
 
Gene, I'm sorry that this has happened.
-Laurie
 
 
 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 


Re: KeePass

Quentin Christensen
 

As a bonus, Keepass is free and open source, so you can try both and keep whichever one you like.  Note you can import Keepass 1.x files into Keepass 2.x but not the other way around (as Keepass 2 has more features): http://keepass.info/help/v2/version.html

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Kwork <istherelife@...> wrote:
Thank you Quentin. It appears that v1 and v2 are a matter of user choice, and that both are accessible enough. I'll take a look at both and decide. V1 might be enough as my needs are basic.
Travis
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] KeePass

Hi Travis,

I use KeePass version 1 and find it quite good.  There are a couple of unlabelled buttons.  The main ones I use which aren't labelled are one tab after the first password field is "show password", and the one after the second password field is to generate a password.  Other than that, everything works fine with NVDA.

Just reading through the documentation for you, it does say: "
  • [2.x] Accessibility: KeePass 2.x features an advanced option that explicitly optimizes the user interface for screen readers."

I initially chose V1 because I didn't need any of the extra features in V2: http://keepass.info/compare.html

So it might be that V2 is even more accessible, although in fact, V1 isn't that far off.

Regards

Quentin.



On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 8:32 AM, Kwork <istherelife@...> wrote:
It seems that there was a recent discussion of KeePass on this list, but don't remember for sure as we've been dealing with moves and other personal stuff, so emails didn't always get kept or read. If I'm remembering right, how accessible is it with NVDA. I think I also remember reading somewhere that there are two active releases of the program, a version 1 and a version 2. Is one better than the other for us? Thanks so much for any advice and help.
Travis




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: KeePass

Kwork
 


Thank you Quentin. It appears that v1 and v2 are a matter of user choice, and that both are accessible enough. I'll take a look at both and decide. V1 might be enough as my needs are basic.
Travis

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] KeePass

Hi Travis,

I use KeePass version 1 and find it quite good.  There are a couple of unlabelled buttons.  The main ones I use which aren't labelled are one tab after the first password field is "show password", and the one after the second password field is to generate a password.  Other than that, everything works fine with NVDA.

Just reading through the documentation for you, it does say: "
  • [2.x] Accessibility: KeePass 2.x features an advanced option that explicitly optimizes the user interface for screen readers."

I initially chose V1 because I didn't need any of the extra features in V2: http://keepass.info/compare.html

So it might be that V2 is even more accessible, although in fact, V1 isn't that far off.

Regards

Quentin.



On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 8:32 AM, Kwork <istherelife@...> wrote:
It seems that there was a recent discussion of KeePass on this list, but don't remember for sure as we've been dealing with moves and other personal stuff, so emails didn't always get kept or read. If I'm remembering right, how accessible is it with NVDA. I think I also remember reading somewhere that there are two active releases of the program, a version 1 and a version 2. Is one better than the other for us? Thanks so much for any advice and help.
Travis




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: question please, Re: [nvda] accessing jean's sight.

Gene
 

I just checked your site out of curiosity and guess what?  Your site is back.  It appears that the Drop Box file need not be used and that people may use your site again.  I went there with scripts turned off for safety reasons and I would advise those using Internet Explorer to have both scripts turned off and active X controls off to until we are assured the site is safe again.  But it appears that it is.  I'm not sure what or if any testing needs to be done to be sure.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: question please, Re: [nvda] accessing jean's sight.

Hi guys


it is gene from New Zealand who has the Accessibility Central.net website that is been diverted at the moment. it is not my website so please do not go to it just in case.


until it is sorted out or hosted elsewhere i have zipped the website up in a program called 7 zip file manager which was used to do it.


you might need a program like that to access the contents of it.

you might have to make a folder first then put all the files into it.

then it is a matter of going to the index file and pressing the enter key on it. to get to the information.


the zip file has been scanned with anti virus and malware programs and it says it is clean.

If you want to download the zip file it is going to be put into a drop box account which i will share on this list if you want it until this is sorted out.

the drop box link is https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujcz7ui1i7qxp58/Accessibility%20Central%20Website.zip?dl=0
the copy or back up is from the 19 th of July if it is all there and it looks like it.
not the thing i would usually do but just in case the info is lost for any reason i would hate it not been shared as it was doing for the community.

Gene nz

On 7/23/2017 1:54 PM, Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi,

Could someone please post how to remove a bookmark in firefox?
I want to remove my bookmark for now to avoid clicking on the tutorial page until it is safe again.
Thanks.

It is totally rotten that anyone would hijack such a thoughtfully arranged resource for us.

Gene, I'm sorry that this has happened.
-Laurie




--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: question please, Re: [nvda] accessing jean's sight.

Gene
 

I see that the file is only 1.1mb, which is much smaller than I anticipated.  But it still might be worth considering data restrictions unless you are using the paid account in which case, I suspect they won't matter.  But I'm not sure.
 
At any rate, you may have already thought about these things and you may have determined that there is no cause for concern.  I'll be looking forward to your reply.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: question please, Re: [nvda] accessing jean's sight.

Hi guys


it is gene from New Zealand who has the Accessibility Central.net website that is been diverted at the moment. it is not my website so please do not go to it just in case.


until it is sorted out or hosted elsewhere i have zipped the website up in a program called 7 zip file manager which was used to do it.


you might need a program like that to access the contents of it.

you might have to make a folder first then put all the files into it.

then it is a matter of going to the index file and pressing the enter key on it. to get to the information.


the zip file has been scanned with anti virus and malware programs and it says it is clean.

If you want to download the zip file it is going to be put into a drop box account which i will share on this list if you want it until this is sorted out.

the drop box link is https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujcz7ui1i7qxp58/Accessibility%20Central%20Website.zip?dl=0
the copy or back up is from the 19 th of July if it is all there and it looks like it.
not the thing i would usually do but just in case the info is lost for any reason i would hate it not been shared as it was doing for the community.

Gene nz

On 7/23/2017 1:54 PM, Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi,

Could someone please post how to remove a bookmark in firefox?
I want to remove my bookmark for now to avoid clicking on the tutorial page until it is safe again.
Thanks.

It is totally rotten that anyone would hijack such a thoughtfully arranged resource for us.

Gene, I'm sorry that this has happened.
-Laurie




--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: question please, Re: [nvda] accessing jean's sight.

Gene
 

You said it is going to be put into a Drop Box file which will be shared on the site if people want it.  You then gave a link.  It appears that you have already shared it by giving the link.  Did you mean something else?  It appears that the file can now be downloaded.  but are you using a free or paid account for Drop Box?  the free account has much more severe data restrictions and the link may become inactive if too many people down load it.  I'm not sure what might happen.  But Drop Box may not be a good place to host the file unless you know what the data restrictions are for your kind of account and how likely a number of downloads are to pass the restriction.  Perhaps there is a better way to host it.  For example, maybe your site should be downloaded by someone who has to do with the NVDA site and the file can be temporarily hosted there or maybe something like Google Drive might be used.  I'm not suggesting that any of these are good alternatives but making the file generally available on Drop Box may not be a good idea and it might be a good idea to discuss alternatives.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: question please, Re: [nvda] accessing jean's sight.

Hi guys


it is gene from New Zealand who has the Accessibility Central.net website that is been diverted at the moment. it is not my website so please do not go to it just in case.


until it is sorted out or hosted elsewhere i have zipped the website up in a program called 7 zip file manager which was used to do it.


you might need a program like that to access the contents of it.

you might have to make a folder first then put all the files into it.

then it is a matter of going to the index file and pressing the enter key on it. to get to the information.


the zip file has been scanned with anti virus and malware programs and it says it is clean.

If you want to download the zip file it is going to be put into a drop box account which i will share on this list if you want it until this is sorted out.

the drop box link is https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujcz7ui1i7qxp58/Accessibility%20Central%20Website.zip?dl=0
the copy or back up is from the 19 th of July if it is all there and it looks like it.
not the thing i would usually do but just in case the info is lost for any reason i would hate it not been shared as it was doing for the community.

Gene nz

On 7/23/2017 1:54 PM, Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi,

Could someone please post how to remove a bookmark in firefox?
I want to remove my bookmark for now to avoid clicking on the tutorial page until it is safe again.
Thanks.

It is totally rotten that anyone would hijack such a thoughtfully arranged resource for us.

Gene, I'm sorry that this has happened.
-Laurie




--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: question please, Re: [nvda] accessing jean's sight.

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi guys


it is gene from New Zealand who has the Accessibility Central.net website that is been diverted at the moment. it is not my website so please do not go to it just in case.


until it is sorted out or hosted elsewhere i have zipped the website up in a program called 7 zip file manager which was used to do it.


you might need a program like that to access the contents of it.

you might have to make a folder first then put all the files into it.

then it is a matter of going to the index file and pressing the enter key on it. to get to the information.


the zip file has been scanned with anti virus and malware programs and it says it is clean.

If you want to download the zip file it is going to be put into a drop box account which i will share on this list if you want it until this is sorted out.

the drop box link is https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujcz7ui1i7qxp58/Accessibility%20Central%20Website.zip?dl=0
the copy or back up is from the 19 th of July if it is all there and it looks like it.
not the thing i would usually do but just in case the info is lost for any reason i would hate it not been shared as it was doing for the community.

Gene nz

On 7/23/2017 1:54 PM, Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi,

Could someone please post how to remove a bookmark in firefox?
I want to remove my bookmark for now to avoid clicking on the tutorial page until it is safe again.
Thanks.

It is totally rotten that anyone would hijack such a thoughtfully arranged resource for us.

Gene, I'm sorry that this has happened.
-Laurie




--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: KeePass

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Travis,

I use KeePass version 1 and find it quite good.  There are a couple of unlabelled buttons.  The main ones I use which aren't labelled are one tab after the first password field is "show password", and the one after the second password field is to generate a password.  Other than that, everything works fine with NVDA.

Just reading through the documentation for you, it does say: "
  • [2.x] Accessibility: KeePass 2.x features an advanced option that explicitly optimizes the user interface for screen readers."

I initially chose V1 because I didn't need any of the extra features in V2: http://keepass.info/compare.html

So it might be that V2 is even more accessible, although in fact, V1 isn't that far off.

Regards

Quentin.



On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 8:32 AM, Kwork <istherelife@...> wrote:
It seems that there was a recent discussion of KeePass on this list, but don't remember for sure as we've been dealing with moves and other personal stuff, so emails didn't always get kept or read. If I'm remembering right, how accessible is it with NVDA. I think I also remember reading somewhere that there are two active releases of the program, a version 1 and a version 2. Is one better than the other for us? Thanks so much for any advice and help.
Travis




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: NVDA not announcing save as dialog box

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Dan,

What program are you trying to save a file in (Word, NotePad, Reaper, ?) and also which version of Windows?

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Dan Thompson <dmt031073@...> wrote:

Greetings,

Frequently when pressing control-S on a first time save of a file, the save as box is not announced as being opened.  I then tab once and shift tab to make it  be announced. Is there something I do not have checked on somewhere?

Thanks for any help in advance.

subscribe to Friday Finds by sending a blank email with "subscribe dan's tips" in the subject line. To

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TRUTH FOR TODAY:

Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who  love God and are called according to his purpose for them." (NLT)

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--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

 

So finally the guys getting pushed into changing are getting some support.

I have the ability right now but really the new interfaces are not always better.

The best doesn't always work, the more secure catches games and software you have used for ages.

Relying on what someone tells you sometimes is not good either.

On 25/07/2017 6:13 a.m., Travis Siegel wrote:
I'm sorry, but IBM stopped supporting os/2 in 2006, why do folks still use it?

Mostly because it suits their purposes, and it does what they want, so they use it.

People use what works for them, and if that just happens to be something that isn't officially supported anymore, then so what. Everyone who uses an unsupported os probably already knows that it isn't supported, and there's reasons they choose to use it anyway. As long as there are operating systems, some people are going to use them regardless of their supported status. Dos is still used very heavily in industrial settings, and I don't see anyone yelling at those industries to update to something that is still supported by microsoft, ibm, novell, paragon, or any number of other companies. Why? Because the dos being used suits the purpose for what it's being used for, and the industrial users already know there's no support, and that makes no difference to them whatsoever.

Unless you're willing to shoulder the financial burden of upgrading each and every XP user in the world, perhaps you should attempt to offer suggestions on how they could make their systems more secure instead of just telling them to scrap a perfectly working system and move to something they neither want, or can afford.

I'm frankly a bit tired of the whole I'm better than you because I use a modern os attitude that is prevalent on this list (and other places too, don't worry, it's not just here), let's attempt to provide support (which is the point of this list in the first place) instead of putting folks down because they don't want or can't afford to run the latest and greatest hardware/os, ok?



On 7/24/2017 1:53 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
I'm sorry but microsoft stopped supporting windows XP in 2014. Why can't you upgrade to a better system instead of staying with something that isn't supported anymore. I hope you don't get malware or something that could destroy your computer so you can't use it anymore.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 6:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

i use xp, love it and dont believe negative statement against it.
its realy great operating system forever.

On 7/24/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
Well I wouldn't use xp for the net anymore its far to insecure for that.

However its good for all those 32 bit programs you need to use, ie old
games especially those that use directx 8 or whatever that is.

They are also usefull well xp is for old nokia 32 bit apps and other
older games.




On 24/07/2017 7:52 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I think at present at least, XP is not really very good for web
browsing any more due to the tendency for even the working third
party browsers to be quite slow on single core machines of that vintage.

It is however still a joy to use for those of us who hate all the
issues over too much security on single user computers that 7 8 and
now 10 impose on us all.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
<joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code
base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Hi,
NV Access said they'll support XP as long as possible, but it won't
be forever. I'm using Python 3.4 and 3.6 internally for this reason.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code
base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

thanks for good news joseph and brian.
do you continue supporting of xp?
i became worried when i read the message for the first time.
God bless you all!

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...> wrote:
Sounds sensible. At least this will preserve xp etc with the old
Python for

as long as possible. One thing you do not say, which may be obvious
to you,

but perhaps not to the average user is..
What are the reasons for change.
is it that its going to be faster, 64 bit or has better ways of
doing stuff

nvda needs to be able to do in the future?
Obviously not in your remit is that at some point an agreed last
working version of the old NVDA that can work on xp etc is going to
have to be made

available and then when add ons are updated, those that will and
won't run on the old version will need to be noted and if possible
trapped by the old

version so it cannot be scrambled by an add on.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:55 AM
Subject: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code
base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Ladies and gentlemen,



Some of you have been asking NV Access and the global NVDA
community regarding porting NVDA source code and dependencies to
Python 3. I and some contributors have been brainstorming best ways
to accomplish this, and NV Access, contributors, some add-on
writers, users, and NVDA observers agree that it is important that
we look into eventually porting NVDA to Python 3.



Until recently, the possibility of moving NVDA to Python 3 seemed
to be only a dream. However, a major hurdle was overcome earlier
this year when wxPython 4 alpha was released, promising support for
Python versions 2.7 and 3.x. Apart from a major problem regarding
certain internal routines from wxPython 4 that may not be
compatible with NVDA source code, the stage is almost set to begin
our transition to Python 3, dubbed "Project Pylennium".



Project Pylennium is a new project I'm planning and working on that
should make it easier for NV Access, code contributors, add-on
writers, users and many others to experience smooth transition to
Python 3. The overall goal

of
this project is to prepare NVDA's source code so it can run on both
Python

2
and 3 in most cases until developers are ready to move on. This
project also seeks to uncover possible compatibility issues for
NVDA community when the transition happens, and to document these
findings so it can serve as guidelines to current and future developers.



The current iteration of Project Pylennium (based on NVDA GitHub
issue
7105
as a roadmap) can be found on my copy of NVDA source code at:

https://github.com/josephsl/nvda

The branch to use is "py3000".



Project pylennium involves the following:



1. Gather dependencies required for Python 3 transition, such as
newer versions of Python, ConfigObj and many others. A crucial
dependency is the Six module, which adds compatibility layer
functions for both Python 2 and 3.
2. Document porting notes, which will eventually be published on
our NVDA Community wiki.
3. Create source-level compatibility layer in order to mitigate
changes in module names, standard library folder structure,
function and class names and so on.
4. Migrate most code to Python 3 syntax.
5. Frequent and regular testing to make sure regressions are not
introduced.



Progress so far:



1. Imports: a compatibility layer is in place to import Python 2 or
3 version of winreg, pickle, io.StringIO and what not.
2. Compiles fine via SCons 2.x.
3. Possible to see the first initialization phase of NVDA launcher
(nvda.pyw) via command line. The biggest showstopper at this time
is the fact that logHandler.StreamHandler constructor uses file
function when Python 3 says it isn't available, which suggests we
need to modernize log handler module.



Benefits:



1. Allows NV Access to look at porting data and make informed
decisions.
2. Allows contributors and Python experts to provide expertise and
prepare the source code for Python 3 transition.
3. Allows add-on authors to look at changes and prepare their
add-ons to run on Python 3.
4. Allows interested users to be involved in a major project and
provide test data.



Disadvantages:



1. We need to part ways with Windows XP and Server 2003.
2. Stress throughout the project, as it is nothing like what we've
seen recently.
3. Some add-ons will need community intervention to get them to run
on Python 3, as some are abandonware (no longer maintained by
authors or the add-ons community don't know who wrote some of them
and lost contact with some authors).
4. Possible issues in code and other ones, especially when looking
at code and attitude conflicts.



Next steps:



1. I'm looking for volunteers and subproject leads: if you are
passionate about Python, NVDA, and want to help NVDA achieve the next
milestone, please help and find folks who can assist in this
project. In
regards to subprojects, mostly have to do with dependency checks and
tests,
testing, documentation, talking to Python Software Foundation (PSF),
recruiting Python experts and what not.
2. Cooperation: as Project Pylennium is a grand-scale project, we
cannot move forward and make it a reality unless cooperation between
developers, add-on authors, users, observers and many others is there.
3. Promote: one way to keep the momentum going is promoting this
project far and wide.
4. Continued work: I'm looking into how to port urllib imports, as this
module has seen huge folder restructuring in Python 3 and other work.



What you'll need for this project:



1. Python 3.6.0 32-bit or later (3.6.2 is recommended).
2. wxPython 4 alpha 3 or later with the wheel for Python 3.5 or 3.6.
3. Six module (from PYPI).
4. ConfigObj 5.0.6.



Guidelines:



1. When sending pull requests, please do NOT send them to NV Access
yet, as folks over there are working on high priority work. Instead,
send

a
pull request against josephsl/nvda branch py3000.
2. Please provide a clear commit message when sending in pull requests
so folks can track what has changed.
3. Before you commit, please make sure to test NVDA in order to catch
regressions and write workarounds.
4. At least once a month, I will merge NV Access master branch to keep
the code up to date and incorporate changes into this project,
sometimes
requiring transforming syntax to fit Python 3 requirements.
5. If you want to port add-ons, please do so at your earliest
convenience or when you are ready. As part of this work, I myself will
port
my own add-ons to Python 3 (one of them is done; throughout this year,
I'll
port rest of my add-ons). Please do not port your add-ons to Python 3
completely - I recommend making it so it'll run happily on both Python
versions.



Thank you.

Sincerely,

Joseph









Re: Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

 

You know thats a sad thing, we are all dictated to by what microsoft wants us to do.

I personally liked the older xp style interface and explorer excluding the win7 search but the xp file search was good to.

I know I am going to be classed as old but as I have said before unless there is a way to run different desktops like they do on linux this thing will never go away.

I would be happy to run a win7 or xp styled shell and never worry about the new universal type of system win10 is offering users unless I want to use it.

All my systems most of them are desktop based and my life doesn't need all the new and largely inaccessible stuff put on it.

On 25/07/2017 5:53 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
I'm sorry but microsoft stopped supporting windows XP in 2014. Why can't you upgrade to a better system instead of staying with something that isn't supported anymore. I hope you don't get malware or something that could destroy your computer so you can't use it anymore.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 6:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

i use xp, love it and dont believe negative statement against it.
its realy great operating system forever.

On 7/24/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
Well I wouldn't use xp for the net anymore its far to insecure for that.

However its good for all those 32 bit programs you need to use, ie old
games especially those that use directx 8 or whatever that is.

They are also usefull well xp is for old nokia 32 bit apps and other
older games.




On 24/07/2017 7:52 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I think at present at least, XP is not really very good for web
browsing any more due to the tendency for even the working third
party browsers to be quite slow on single core machines of that vintage.

It is however still a joy to use for those of us who hate all the
issues over too much security on single user computers that 7 8 and
now 10 impose on us all.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
<joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code
base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Hi,
NV Access said they'll support XP as long as possible, but it won't
be forever. I'm using Python 3.4 and 3.6 internally for this reason.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code
base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

thanks for good news joseph and brian.
do you continue supporting of xp?
i became worried when i read the message for the first time.
God bless you all!

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...> wrote:
Sounds sensible. At least this will preserve xp etc with the old
Python for

as long as possible. One thing you do not say, which may be obvious
to you,

but perhaps not to the average user is..
What are the reasons for change.
is it that its going to be faster, 64 bit or has better ways of
doing stuff

nvda needs to be able to do in the future?
Obviously not in your remit is that at some point an agreed last
working version of the old NVDA that can work on xp etc is going to
have to be made

available and then when add ons are updated, those that will and
won't run on the old version will need to be noted and if possible
trapped by the old

version so it cannot be scrambled by an add on.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:55 AM
Subject: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code
base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Ladies and gentlemen,



Some of you have been asking NV Access and the global NVDA
community regarding porting NVDA source code and dependencies to
Python 3. I and some contributors have been brainstorming best ways
to accomplish this, and NV Access, contributors, some add-on
writers, users, and NVDA observers agree that it is important that
we look into eventually porting NVDA to Python 3.



Until recently, the possibility of moving NVDA to Python 3 seemed
to be only a dream. However, a major hurdle was overcome earlier
this year when wxPython 4 alpha was released, promising support for
Python versions 2.7 and 3.x. Apart from a major problem regarding
certain internal routines from wxPython 4 that may not be
compatible with NVDA source code, the stage is almost set to begin
our transition to Python 3, dubbed "Project Pylennium".



Project Pylennium is a new project I'm planning and working on that
should make it easier for NV Access, code contributors, add-on
writers, users and many others to experience smooth transition to
Python 3. The overall goal

of
this project is to prepare NVDA's source code so it can run on both
Python

2
and 3 in most cases until developers are ready to move on. This
project also seeks to uncover possible compatibility issues for
NVDA community when the transition happens, and to document these
findings so it can serve as guidelines to current and future developers.



The current iteration of Project Pylennium (based on NVDA GitHub
issue
7105
as a roadmap) can be found on my copy of NVDA source code at:

https://github.com/josephsl/nvda

The branch to use is "py3000".



Project pylennium involves the following:



1. Gather dependencies required for Python 3 transition, such as
newer versions of Python, ConfigObj and many others. A crucial
dependency is the Six module, which adds compatibility layer
functions for both Python 2 and 3.
2. Document porting notes, which will eventually be published on
our NVDA Community wiki.
3. Create source-level compatibility layer in order to mitigate
changes in module names, standard library folder structure,
function and class names and so on.
4. Migrate most code to Python 3 syntax.
5. Frequent and regular testing to make sure regressions are not
introduced.



Progress so far:



1. Imports: a compatibility layer is in place to import Python 2 or
3 version of winreg, pickle, io.StringIO and what not.
2. Compiles fine via SCons 2.x.
3. Possible to see the first initialization phase of NVDA launcher
(nvda.pyw) via command line. The biggest showstopper at this time
is the fact that logHandler.StreamHandler constructor uses file
function when Python 3 says it isn't available, which suggests we
need to modernize log handler module.



Benefits:



1. Allows NV Access to look at porting data and make informed
decisions.
2. Allows contributors and Python experts to provide expertise and
prepare the source code for Python 3 transition.
3. Allows add-on authors to look at changes and prepare their
add-ons to run on Python 3.
4. Allows interested users to be involved in a major project and
provide test data.



Disadvantages:



1. We need to part ways with Windows XP and Server 2003.
2. Stress throughout the project, as it is nothing like what we've
seen recently.
3. Some add-ons will need community intervention to get them to run
on Python 3, as some are abandonware (no longer maintained by
authors or the add-ons community don't know who wrote some of them
and lost contact with some authors).
4. Possible issues in code and other ones, especially when looking
at code and attitude conflicts.



Next steps:



1. I'm looking for volunteers and subproject leads: if you are
passionate about Python, NVDA, and want to help NVDA achieve the next
milestone, please help and find folks who can assist in this
project. In
regards to subprojects, mostly have to do with dependency checks and
tests,
testing, documentation, talking to Python Software Foundation (PSF),
recruiting Python experts and what not.
2. Cooperation: as Project Pylennium is a grand-scale project, we
cannot move forward and make it a reality unless cooperation between
developers, add-on authors, users, observers and many others is there.
3. Promote: one way to keep the momentum going is promoting this
project far and wide.
4. Continued work: I'm looking into how to port urllib imports, as this
module has seen huge folder restructuring in Python 3 and other work.



What you'll need for this project:



1. Python 3.6.0 32-bit or later (3.6.2 is recommended).
2. wxPython 4 alpha 3 or later with the wheel for Python 3.5 or 3.6.
3. Six module (from PYPI).
4. ConfigObj 5.0.6.



Guidelines:



1. When sending pull requests, please do NOT send them to NV Access
yet, as folks over there are working on high priority work. Instead,
send

a
pull request against josephsl/nvda branch py3000.
2. Please provide a clear commit message when sending in pull requests
so folks can track what has changed.
3. Before you commit, please make sure to test NVDA in order to catch
regressions and write workarounds.
4. At least once a month, I will merge NV Access master branch to keep
the code up to date and incorporate changes into this project,
sometimes
requiring transforming syntax to fit Python 3 requirements.
5. If you want to port add-ons, please do so at your earliest
convenience or when you are ready. As part of this work, I myself will
port
my own add-ons to Python 3 (one of them is done; throughout this year,
I'll
port rest of my add-ons). Please do not port your add-ons to Python 3
completely - I recommend making it so it'll run happily on both Python
versions.



Thank you.

Sincerely,

Joseph






Re: Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

 

thanks gene and travis for your supportive comments.
travis i realy appreciate you for your great comment.
yes, i only need one browser, screen reader, notepad, player to use
and fortunately i have all of them.
and as you mentioned, many people just use what works for them and
sutes there need!
i also have my own reason for not using newer operating systems.
malwares are not specific for xp, i heard that one of my friends had
windows ten and his system was infected by malware.
so, malware and attacks maybe happen for any operating system.
i know many banks use unix which is for 1960 or 1970 decade!
God bless you for your support and his best reward i wish and pray for you.

On 7/24/17, Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...> wrote:
I'm sorry, but IBM stopped supporting os/2 in 2006, why do folks still
use it?

Mostly because it suits their purposes, and it does what they want, so
they use it.

People use what works for them, and if that just happens to be something
that isn't officially supported anymore, then so what. Everyone who uses
an unsupported os probably already knows that it isn't supported, and
there's reasons they choose to use it anyway. As long as there are
operating systems, some people are going to use them regardless of their
supported status. Dos is still used very heavily in industrial
settings, and I don't see anyone yelling at those industries to update
to something that is still supported by microsoft, ibm, novell, paragon,
or any number of other companies. Why? Because the dos being used suits
the purpose for what it's being used for, and the industrial users
already know there's no support, and that makes no difference to them
whatsoever.

Unless you're willing to shoulder the financial burden of upgrading each
and every XP user in the world, perhaps you should attempt to offer
suggestions on how they could make their systems more secure instead of
just telling them to scrap a perfectly working system and move to
something they neither want, or can afford.

I'm frankly a bit tired of the whole I'm better than you because I use a
modern os attitude that is prevalent on this list (and other places too,
don't worry, it's not just here), let's attempt to provide support
(which is the point of this list in the first place) instead of putting
folks down because they don't want or can't afford to run the latest and
greatest hardware/os, ok?



On 7/24/2017 1:53 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
I'm sorry but microsoft stopped supporting windows XP in 2014. Why can't
you upgrade to a better system instead of staying with something that
isn't supported anymore. I hope you don't get malware or something that
could destroy your computer so you can't use it anymore.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin
khaksar
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 6:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base,
dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

i use xp, love it and dont believe negative statement against it.
its realy great operating system forever.

On 7/24/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
Well I wouldn't use xp for the net anymore its far to insecure for that.

However its good for all those 32 bit programs you need to use, ie old
games especially those that use directx 8 or whatever that is.

They are also usefull well xp is for old nokia 32 bit apps and other
older games.




On 24/07/2017 7:52 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I think at present at least, XP is not really very good for web
browsing any more due to the tendency for even the working third
party browsers to be quite slow on single core machines of that
vintage.

It is however still a joy to use for those of us who hate all the
issues over too much security on single user computers that 7 8 and
now 10 impose on us all.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
<joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code
base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Hi,
NV Access said they'll support XP as long as possible, but it won't
be forever. I'm using Python 3.4 and 3.6 internally for this reason.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code
base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

thanks for good news joseph and brian.
do you continue supporting of xp?
i became worried when i read the message for the first time.
God bless you all!

On 7/22/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...> wrote:
Sounds sensible. At least this will preserve xp etc with the old
Python for

as long as possible. One thing you do not say, which may be obvious
to you,

but perhaps not to the average user is..
What are the reasons for change.
is it that its going to be faster, 64 bit or has better ways of
doing stuff

nvda needs to be able to do in the future?
Obviously not in your remit is that at some point an agreed last
working version of the old NVDA that can work on xp etc is going to
have to be made

available and then when add ons are updated, those that will and
won't run on the old version will need to be noted and if possible
trapped by the old

version so it cannot be scrambled by an add on.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:55 AM
Subject: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code
base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


Ladies and gentlemen,



Some of you have been asking NV Access and the global NVDA
community regarding porting NVDA source code and dependencies to
Python 3. I and some contributors have been brainstorming best ways
to accomplish this, and NV Access, contributors, some add-on
writers, users, and NVDA observers agree that it is important that
we look into eventually porting NVDA to Python 3.



Until recently, the possibility of moving NVDA to Python 3 seemed
to be only a dream. However, a major hurdle was overcome earlier
this year when wxPython 4 alpha was released, promising support for
Python versions 2.7 and 3.x. Apart from a major problem regarding
certain internal routines from wxPython 4 that may not be
compatible with NVDA source code, the stage is almost set to begin
our transition to Python 3, dubbed "Project Pylennium".



Project Pylennium is a new project I'm planning and working on that
should make it easier for NV Access, code contributors, add-on
writers, users and many others to experience smooth transition to
Python 3. The overall goal

of
this project is to prepare NVDA's source code so it can run on both
Python

2
and 3 in most cases until developers are ready to move on. This
project also seeks to uncover possible compatibility issues for
NVDA community when the transition happens, and to document these
findings so it can serve as guidelines to current and future
developers.



The current iteration of Project Pylennium (based on NVDA GitHub
issue
7105
as a roadmap) can be found on my copy of NVDA source code at:

https://github.com/josephsl/nvda

The branch to use is "py3000".



Project pylennium involves the following:



1. Gather dependencies required for Python 3 transition, such as
newer versions of Python, ConfigObj and many others. A crucial
dependency is the Six module, which adds compatibility layer
functions for both Python 2 and 3.
2. Document porting notes, which will eventually be published on
our NVDA Community wiki.
3. Create source-level compatibility layer in order to mitigate
changes in module names, standard library folder structure,
function and class names and so on.
4. Migrate most code to Python 3 syntax.
5. Frequent and regular testing to make sure regressions are not
introduced.



Progress so far:



1. Imports: a compatibility layer is in place to import Python 2 or
3 version of winreg, pickle, io.StringIO and what not.
2. Compiles fine via SCons 2.x.
3. Possible to see the first initialization phase of NVDA launcher
(nvda.pyw) via command line. The biggest showstopper at this time
is the fact that logHandler.StreamHandler constructor uses file
function when Python 3 says it isn't available, which suggests we
need to modernize log handler module.



Benefits:



1. Allows NV Access to look at porting data and make informed
decisions.
2. Allows contributors and Python experts to provide expertise and
prepare the source code for Python 3 transition.
3. Allows add-on authors to look at changes and prepare their
add-ons to run on Python 3.
4. Allows interested users to be involved in a major project and
provide test data.



Disadvantages:



1. We need to part ways with Windows XP and Server 2003.
2. Stress throughout the project, as it is nothing like what we've
seen recently.
3. Some add-ons will need community intervention to get them to run
on Python 3, as some are abandonware (no longer maintained by
authors or the add-ons community don't know who wrote some of them
and lost contact with some authors).
4. Possible issues in code and other ones, especially when looking
at code and attitude conflicts.



Next steps:



1. I'm looking for volunteers and subproject leads: if you are
passionate about Python, NVDA, and want to help NVDA achieve the next
milestone, please help and find folks who can assist in this
project. In
regards to subprojects, mostly have to do with dependency checks and
tests,
testing, documentation, talking to Python Software Foundation (PSF),
recruiting Python experts and what not.
2. Cooperation: as Project Pylennium is a grand-scale project, we
cannot move forward and make it a reality unless cooperation between
developers, add-on authors, users, observers and many others is
there.
3. Promote: one way to keep the momentum going is promoting this
project far and wide.
4. Continued work: I'm looking into how to port urllib imports, as
this
module has seen huge folder restructuring in Python 3 and other work.



What you'll need for this project:



1. Python 3.6.0 32-bit or later (3.6.2 is recommended).
2. wxPython 4 alpha 3 or later with the wheel for Python 3.5 or 3.6.
3. Six module (from PYPI).
4. ConfigObj 5.0.6.



Guidelines:



1. When sending pull requests, please do NOT send them to NV Access
yet, as folks over there are working on high priority work. Instead,
send

a
pull request against josephsl/nvda branch py3000.
2. Please provide a clear commit message when sending in pull
requests
so folks can track what has changed.
3. Before you commit, please make sure to test NVDA in order to catch
regressions and write workarounds.
4. At least once a month, I will merge NV Access master branch to
keep
the code up to date and incorporate changes into this project,
sometimes
requiring transforming syntax to fit Python 3 requirements.
5. If you want to port add-ons, please do so at your earliest
convenience or when you are ready. As part of this work, I myself
will
port
my own add-ons to Python 3 (one of them is done; throughout this
year,
I'll
port rest of my add-ons). Please do not port your add-ons to Python 3
completely - I recommend making it so it'll run happily on both
Python
versions.



Thank you.

Sincerely,

Joseph









--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x

 

Well lets make one point clear, I am not nore have ever been against change to anything from my os, security software, etc.

What I am against is the notion of change where it is assumed that I the user, disabled, be he normal, disabled, rich or poor, helpless or not dumb or smart, retarded or inteligent is then able by his own funds or lack of them be able to change to the latest and greatest because its the way of the world and thats life!

I am not helpless, retarded or dumb.

However I am blind and while I do fitter some cash away on some software and digital music live at home with my family, I couldn't afford this broadband connection let alone any new computer or actual software without help.

If I was going myself I would have a cheap computer with pirated and cracked software or linux or maybe a blindy product, I couldn't fund it my self though I wish I could.

When changing to a new windows I move it fearfully.

Will my software work, will I have to buy extra technology to get things working, so nvda works for the majority but even so.

Then there is the fact of what to switch to.

Can I afford to go to winxp can I afford the upgrade that entails.

Can I run 2 readers on one system without wasting my video settings.

Can I afford the update to 64 bit, do I now have to replace just about everything to go to 10?

Can I get round the ribbon can I handle the changes do I need to change at all.

In the end, I compromise.

Never the latest, just enough to get going, I have sacroficed a lot office, well.


I have family and some funds meaning I can sidestep the big tech issues right at this moment but I still use an outdated crappy symbian phone.

And if I had the choice I'd still be using xp or win95 or something.

ANd while its mostly good, ie msse and other things some stuff is not good and I accept that.

My big issue is that people in general assume you change because you can!

For me I change what I need to stay secure if I can.

I buy a new computer not in case I get hacked but when the battery explodes or the keyboard stops or the hard drive stops working.

I update windows for a reason.

If its security then I update to the minimal version with the access that will still work.

I certainly don't blame the people that stay on xp.

I have a friend that decided to change, she got the latest and best computer with the latest and best version of windows about 2 years back.

That latest system has so many issues, its been through reformats countless times and in the shop more times than I can remember.

Meanwhile I started in dos, then moved through school eventually hitting xp through university.

I then went to win7 on a business system and have stayed here for a while.

I am getting the funds to do the big transition to win10 on another box so I can put this older box into linux as some sort of insurance however to be honest, I change because I have to, or I need to but rarely because I want to.

ANd if I want to and can, then I won't change for another while.

2 years ago I had cash to burn, I wanted to change, and just after I had spent my 500 dollars on buying the needed tech I wanted, backup drives failed and my phone broke, my funds went down and that was it.

I am actually all for staying with win7 till it goes poof and even then.

My idea is to eventually have some sort of vertual machine setup, and run win 10 as my primary internet system, win7 for some stuff, and xp for other things and maybe linux who knows.

So I am not at all against changed but the idea of it being shoved on me because of stupid reasons is my issue.

On 25/07/2017 4:21 a.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Hmm, I don't think anyone disputes the facts, its just that some either have little choice or do not want to change.
I do think you overstate the risks for the average user though, as it seems to me that security holes are in any operating system, the danger is that we do not know where they are yet in 10, but we probably do in Xp. If there are very few XP users around soon the target will move squarely onto the newer systems and then we are back in effect where we started. sigh. Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcing Project Pylennium: porting NVDA code base, dependencies, and developer attitudes to Python 3.6.x


On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 06:20 am, Marshall handheld Flax wrote:


It would be nice if Microsoft had made XP so bulletproof that you could
use it forever, but that is not the world we find ourselves in.
And being a computer technician by trade I will say that, at this point in time, it is foolish, yes foolish, to use a Windows XP machine if you are interacting with cyberspace with it. There are massive security holes in the OS itself that will never be patched and the version of IE that will run under it is even worse.

Using an unsupported operating system, regardless of which operating system, is just asking for trouble. It will come, it's just a matter of when.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063 (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

* * *The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.* * But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another* * profound truth.*

* ~ * *Niels Bohr*



.


NVDA not announcing save as dialog box

Dan Thompson
 

Greetings,

Frequently when pressing control-S on a first time save of a file, the save as box is not announced as being opened.  I then tab once and shift tab to make it  be announced. Is there something I do not have checked on somewhere?

Thanks for any help in advance.

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Re: NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

hi gene


I will also get back to you on her model as well but will not be until this avo with make model operating system etc.


Gene nz



On 7/25/2017 2:36 AM, Gene wrote:
This may be a problem with unregistered dll files but I'm not sure.  What brand and model computer is this?  I believe we had a similar question a week or two ago and it would be good to know if the brand and/or model is the same. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 6:01 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!

Hi All,

Got a new desktop, never used before and first thing I did was to install NVDA latest version. After navigating around the main desktop and some of the windows 10 settings screens I kept getting NVDA announcing, "Unknown" all the time as I tabbed and so on. I disabled any lock screens, screen savers and the like. I also uninstalled and reinstalled the video card which is an Intel HD 630.
After doing all the above I uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but still no success. Even when I go onto the Taskbar and arrow along it, NVDA just announces, "Unknown". On the main desktop screen when I open up a context menu there is nothing, NVDA doesn't announce any of the menus options, not even announce that the menu is in fact open.
Just wondered if there were any suggestions as to what might be going on here.

Many thanks for a great list and wonderful program such as NVDA.

Paul.







--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

hi paul


Before you do it with the instructions sent while nvda is running do the following.


restart nvda, then use the nvda key + leter N to get into the preferences of NVDA.

Arrow to general settings then press the enter key. You will need to tab a few times until you hear nvda sayLogging level: debug

In your case it will say info it is a combo box and change it down to that settings, then tab down to the ok button.


repeat the process to get to this other section but down this time.


Arrow down to the tools menu a sub menu will come off it. It is called view log then press the enter key.

this will have just about every keystroke etc or or where the problems might be for the developers.


this log will need to be saved to your desktop so is easy to find. Some body should after you send it put it into a ticket i know there is one but will have to find it. I do not have access to do this.


you can not send it as a attachment as it gets stripped out of the emails so might have to be sent in one.


make sure the steps for in the general section are done first set the level  to debug or what ever the setting is in this email.


then do the log stuff. make sure you tab around  etc where the problems were saying unknow etc so it catches it so hopefully a update to the ticket can be done.


gene nz




On 7/24/2017 11:01 PM, Mailing Lists wrote:
Hi All,

Got a new desktop, never used before and first thing I did was to install NVDA latest version. After navigating around the main desktop and some of the windows 10 settings screens I kept getting NVDA announcing, "Unknown" all the time as I tabbed and so on. I disabled any lock screens, screen savers and the like. I also uninstalled and reinstalled the video card which is an Intel HD 630.
After doing all the above I uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but still no success. Even when I go onto the Taskbar and arrow along it, NVDA just announces, "Unknown". On the main desktop screen when I open up a context menu there is nothing, NVDA doesn't announce any of the menus options, not even announce that the menu is in fact open.
Just wondered if there were any suggestions as to what might be going on here.

Many thanks for a great list and wonderful program such as NVDA.

Paul.







--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


KeePass

Kwork
 

It seems that there was a recent discussion of KeePass on this list, but don't remember for sure as we've been dealing with moves and other personal stuff, so emails didn't always get kept or read. If I'm remembering right, how accessible is it with NVDA. I think I also remember reading somewhere that there are two active releases of the program, a version 1 and a version 2. Is one better than the other for us? Thanks so much for any advice and help.
Travis


Re: NVDA 2017.2 on new desktop PC announcing Unknown!

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

hi Paul


I had the same problem on a blind members computer saying the same sort of thing. I put the instructions up on my website so it would fix it, but some how some one is re diverting it to another site and it has taken over now even the links to the same site. so unless i can fix the problem i might even kill the domain it goes to.


I would have to check also what model she had but is a laptop by asus and is on windows 1607


I still have a copy on my computer with the instructions but you might need a sighted person to do it.


hers is the first i have come across that has done that. most times you just install nvda and it works.


the instructions are below.


Troubleshooting - NVDA says “unknown” or “pane” in all of your browsers, Mozilla Thunderbird email client and other places
If for some reason you have problems with NVDA saying “unknown” or “pane” check for the following symptoms:

In all of your browsers, or the Mozilla Thunderbird email client, no matter what you do, you still hear “unknown” or “pane”.

In the browser, email client and other menus you notice you cannot get into your menus, or you are unable to use the quick navigation keys

When you have been told the page is loaded and notice strange behaviour

Mozilla Thunderbird saying unknown while you try to navigate it

Your applications key does not work with it being spoken out and other strange behaviour in Windows

The running applications icons are not being spoken out
It might be a good idea to do the following:
Please note: If you are hearing “unknown” or “pane” (as discussed above) NVDA might seem like it is still working properly but it may not be completely in Windows and other programmes.
You could try the following solution which will allow you to re-register your dll files in case they are causing the problem.
Press the Windows key then type the following into the search box. Type in “command prompt”. Once you have located command prompt, in the search results, press the Applications key to bring up the context menu. Arrow down to select “run as administrator” and press the Enter key. This will take you to a command prompt window. This will not be spoken out. You may need sighted assistance for this.
Type in the following command
for %x in (c:\windows\system32\*.dll) do regsvr32 /s %x
This should re-register all components in the system32 folder.
When it is finished, you can close the command prompt window with the Alt + F4 key. You should notice now where NVDA was saying “unknown” as in some examples given, NVDA should now read the icons in the running applications area of Windows, speak the content of the webpage and menus, and also in Mozilla Thunderbird and other places in Windows including the Windows applications context menu.



Gene nz



On 7/24/2017 11:01 PM, Mailing Lists wrote:
Hi All,

Got a new desktop, never used before and first thing I did was to install NVDA latest version. After navigating around the main desktop and some of the windows 10 settings screens I kept getting NVDA announcing, "Unknown" all the time as I tabbed and so on. I disabled any lock screens, screen savers and the like. I also uninstalled and reinstalled the video card which is an Intel HD 630.
After doing all the above I uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but still no success. Even when I go onto the Taskbar and arrow along it, NVDA just announces, "Unknown". On the main desktop screen when I open up a context menu there is nothing, NVDA doesn't announce any of the menus options, not even announce that the menu is in fact open.
Just wondered if there were any suggestions as to what might be going on here.

Many thanks for a great list and wonderful program such as NVDA.

Paul.







--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: NVDA at command prompt admin

Jacob Kruger
 

toggle speaking out of typed characters, and speaking out of typed words - NVDA + number row 2, and NVDA + number row 3.


I do this quite often when need to work with certain forms of command line functionality, and, while busy turn off typed characters, and turn on typed words.


HTH


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2017-07-24 21:48, Don H wrote:
Running latest version of NVDA on a Win 10 64 bit machine.

I started a command prompt admin and thenused the command line sfc /scannow. When it starts running the command NVDA spells out every line within the command prompt admin window.





NVDA at command prompt admin

Don H
 

Running latest version of NVDA on a Win 10 64 bit machine.

I started a command prompt admin and thenused the command line sfc /scannow. When it starts running the command NVDA spells out every line within the command prompt admin window.