Date   

Re: MS Edge browser, how to close it down

Gene
 

Control w doesn't do the same thing as alt f4.  It does the same thing as control f4.  Both commands close the tab you are currently in.  If you have more than one tab opened, the other tab or tabs will remain opened.  If you don't have any other tabs opened, the program will close when you close the only opened tab.  This is also true of Windows.  If a program has more than one window opened, control w and control f4 closes the window you are in.  Other windows will remain opened.  If there is only one window opened in a program, these commands will cause the program to close when you close the only opened window.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Arlene
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] MS Edge browser, how to close it down

Hi, does alt w work just as good as alt F 4?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: August-11-17 9:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] MS Edge browser, how to close it down

 

Hi, Dan,

 

Try closing it with control W.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Beaver
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 8:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] MS Edge browser, how to close it down

 

Hi,

 

I accidentally started Edge.  Now I can't seem to find a way to close it down.  alt+f4 does nothing and I can't seem to get to a ribbon or menu bar.

 

How do I do this with NVDA?

 

Dan Beaver


Re: MS Edge browser, how to close it down

Arlene
 

So does Ie. If you got more then one page in Ie. It will ask to close current or all. If you close all Ie shuts down. Does Edge work the same way?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Hedges
Sent: August-11-17 8:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] MS Edge browser, how to close it down

 

Edge has one annoying behavior. If you press Alt+F4, instrad of Ctrl+F4 to close a Tab, then if multiple tabs are open… a dialog pops up that does not close with Escape. This dialog asks if you want to close all Tabs or Vancel, which his the default.

John

From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 11:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] MS Edge browser, how to close it down

 

Hi,

 

I accidentally started Edge.  Now I can't seem to find a way to close it down.  alt+f4 does nothing and I can't seem to get to a ribbon or menu bar.

 

How do I do this with NVDA?

 

Dan Beaver


Re: MS Edge browser, how to close it down

Arlene
 

I meant control w. sorry

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: August-11-17 9:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] MS Edge browser, how to close it down

 

Hi, Dan,

 

Try closing it with control W.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Beaver
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 8:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] MS Edge browser, how to close it down

 

Hi,

 

I accidentally started Edge.  Now I can't seem to find a way to close it down.  alt+f4 does nothing and I can't seem to get to a ribbon or menu bar.

 

How do I do this with NVDA?

 

Dan Beaver


Re: MS Edge browser, how to close it down

Arlene
 

Hi, does alt w work just as good as alt F 4?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: August-11-17 9:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] MS Edge browser, how to close it down

 

Hi, Dan,

 

Try closing it with control W.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Beaver
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 8:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] MS Edge browser, how to close it down

 

Hi,

 

I accidentally started Edge.  Now I can't seem to find a way to close it down.  alt+f4 does nothing and I can't seem to get to a ribbon or menu bar.

 

How do I do this with NVDA?

 

Dan Beaver


Re: MS Edge browser, how to close it down

 

ALT+F4 is a Windows command, not a screen reader command, and is applicable to any program window on which you currently have focus.

Hitting CTRL+W (at least if a screen reader is not on, and I suspect even if it is) closes the current tab that has focus in Edge, not Edge itself, unless there is but a single tab being displayed.

I suspect John Hedges is correct, but I generally do not turn that feature about asking if I want to close all open tabs off (as sometimes I don't and just suffered from acting hastily), but somehow I do not get asked that question by Edge.  I'm sure there would be a checkbox to not show that dialog again and, if you hit OK to cause all tabs to close, that choice should be remembered.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

 

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 05:49 am, Chris wrote:
the major down side of an mailing list is that people are lazy, so instead of going the web interface and doing a basic search for their issue/problem they will just send off an email rather than making an effort to find a solution for their issue/problem
This is a never-ending issue, and will require a tectonic cultural attitude change.  I am actually appalled by how frequently people post questions that it took them longer to compose than it would to have done a web search using their favorite search engine and gotten answers by the hundreds, the first few of which usually contain the exact answer being sought.

This is not limited to mailing lists related to assistive technology, but I can definitely say the behavior is more prevalent on them.

The above being said, just yesterday on a computer related forum on which I am a moderator, I posted the following after someone posted a simple question, someone answered it with a link to a wikipedia page that the original questioner should have searched for first, and that questioner then had the unmitigated gall to come back with, "Thanks for nothing!":
-------------------

This is one of the reasons I love the site, Let Me Google That For You, and adding in the "internet explainer" option in cases like this.

 

If you are capable of asking a question on a public forum you should have at least had the decency to do a web search yourselffirst.
-------------------


--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: MS Edge browser, how to close it down

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Dan,

 

Try closing it with control W.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Beaver
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 8:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] MS Edge browser, how to close it down

 

Hi,

 

I accidentally started Edge.  Now I can't seem to find a way to close it down.  alt+f4 does nothing and I can't seem to get to a ribbon or menu bar.

 

How do I do this with NVDA?

 

Dan Beaver


Re: MS Edge browser, how to close it down

Chris
 

It also has an option to not show this dialog again

😃

 

 


Emergency announcement: add-on downloads are currently unavailable

 

Hi all,

 

Due to conflicted Git commits on NV Access server, we’re experiencing issues with add-on package downloads. I or someone will take a look at this and will try our best to restore download services.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: I am interested in programming for NVDA

Stephanie Watts
 

All,

Thank you for your comments and recommendations. Greatly appreciated.

Stephanie

On Aug 10, 2017, at 9:32 PM, Marshall handheld Flax <m.droid.flax@...> wrote:

I would have to say that quite honestly: no, it is not at all easy to start from scratch and learn enough programming to begin to contribute to NVDA in any significant way. 

Programming, even simple systems, is actually hard in the sense that a program that operates correctly 99% of the time can be wrong thousands of times a second.  A program that is correct 99.9999% of the time is still likely a failure, when it does thousands or millions of decisions a second.

Programming is hard because you have to develop intuition about how to keep complex things as simple as possible.

Programming is hard because every large program -- especially ones developed by multiple peoples -- resembles a large city with many different neighborhoods, thoroughfares, plazas, and dead ends -- and you need to learn them all before you can with any modesty propose new construction.

Programming is hard because you need to learn how to think clearly, and how to have insight into what your program might do wrong -- and so how to test and verify your program.

Programming is hard because you need to learn the idioms and taboos of each language you use to code.

Programming is hard because complexity grows exponentially.  

Programming is hard because if you don't know what "exponentially" means, you might end up with a program that's technically correct, but useless in practice.

Programming is hard because you need to learn to work in groups, and to not take shortcuts when honest work is required.

This is not to say that small changes -- can't be make without understanding.  But if you wish to actually add to NVDA, you should plan on spending much time reading (by which I mean studying) the existing code to see how it is structured and what design principles it relies upon.

So check the source code out of the repository and start reading.  Teach yourself python 3.  Read the technical documentation.  Pick your favorite NVDA command and investigate how it is implemented.  And if you're not willing to do the above, then that's your answer.

Marshall



On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 12:09 AM, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi joseph and Damien.
thanks so much for your great explanation about programming for nvda.
i also wish to help improving nvda and contribute code to it.
i have no experience in programming except very very limited html
coding (just putting heading, link and title in the html file).
can i learn python easily and help you for great nvda screen reader?
is it easy for me to learn python according to my current position
which i mentioned?
thanks for your help and God bless you!

On 8/11/17, Damien Sykes-Lindley <damien@...> wrote:
> Hi,
> I might add to Joseph and say that working with NVDA and publishing it
> doesn’t just require a knowledge of programming in Python, but also about
> various software engineering concepts as well.
>
> Software engineering is a wide spectrum of skills that include the essential
> steps of software design and development, but also cover wider aspects such
> as maintenance, testing and release.
> Of course the simplest form of this is what many single small-time
> developers do: Have an idea, program it, test it on one machine, upload,
> write your web page, and it’s released. This is how I have worked for the
> past 14 years.
> The change started last year, when I collaborated with someone on a game –
> my first introduction to source code management – versioning, bug tracking
> with tickets, wiki systems and all that good stuff. We used a system called
> Fossil, which is a self-hosting system which even has its own in-built
> server, wiki and ticket system.
> Working with NVDA addons, I then had to learn the art of yet another
> versioning system, which was different from its host platform, I.E. Git and
> GitHub. While Git does the actual versioning, GitHub hosts the Git data and
> also provides the means for the bug tracker, ticket and release systems,
> while also providing a code moderation system and social media features.
>
> NVDA itself also makes use of several other engineering components that
> provide automated building and testing, so if you want to be a major
> contributor I’m guessing those will also need to be learned. SCons, a Python
> code autobuilder, is definitely a plus.
>
> It does sound amazingly complicated, and even I don’t understand the
> build/test process, which I believe is done through AppVeyor, but I have
> often thought my mind would positively explode with all the new things I had
> to learn just to slowly wriggle through the basics. It’s been a long haul,
> taking me over four years to be able to learn enough to write and publish my
> first addon.
> Now that I’ve done that though, that’s only given me the determination to
> launch the ship I have built. I myself have had an in-depth look at the
> source code so that, hopefully, I too can contribute directly to the NVDA
> code.
> Cheers.
> Damien.
>
>
> From: Joseph Lee
> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 1:22 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] I am interested in programming for NVDA
>
> Hello,
>
> I’d say we should discuss some basics here for the benefit of many on this
> forum who wants to contribute code to NVDA.
>
> First things first: before people learn the intricacies of NVDA source code,
> some knowledge of Python is essential. If Stephanie came onboard last year,
> I could have told her to learn Python 2; however, times have changed, and I
> recommend people who are newbies to learn Python 3. For most tasks, Python 2
> and 3 will work well, but there are some internal things that require you to
> become familiar with Python 2 for a little while before NV Access declares
> transition to Python 3.
>
> Most of us (including I) started out with writing NVDA add-ons. Some of the
> add-ons out there, including Enhanced Touch Gestures, Clock, and many others
> were written by developers prior to their exposure to internals of NVDA
> source code. Learning to write NVDA add-ons helps some people in practicing
> Python skills and getting to use high-level functions offered by NVDA.
>
> It is indeed possible to modify NVDA source code with zero to limited
> knowledge of Python. But when it comes to actually digging into code and
> providing contributions, this quickly becomes an overwhelming task because
> not only a new programming language must be learned, but also one needs to
> know how certain things in NVDA works behind the scenes (via source code).
> This is one of the reasons why I always advise scripters of other screen
> readers to take some time off and learn Python before working on seriously
> transforming their scripts to NVDA add-ons.
>
> In terms of what you need to know before seriously working on NVDA code
> contributions:
>
>   a.. Knowledge of Python is recommended.
>   b.. You need to know what a variable is, how to call and define functions,
> and know the differences between a for loop and a while loop.
>   c.. You need to learn how to think carefully before writing a conditional
> (if/elif/else) statement.
>   d.. You should be well-versed in organizing your functions, variables,
> conditional statements, loops and what not into distinct modules.
>   e.. You need to have a beginner’s grasp of what a class is, difference
> between class and object, and the big picture behind class inheritance.
>   f.. You need to be able to explain when to use lists and dictionaries,
> differences between a list and a tuple, how to read data stored in
> dictionaries, and how to add or remove items from containers.
> Things you won’t learn right away but will be fruitful later:
>
>   a.. Research solutions on your own or work with others.
>   b.. Learn to read API documentation for various modules.
>   c.. Learn to debug your solution.
>   d.. Design a small feature and its benefits and drawbacks completely from
> scratch, and optionally (but I highly recommend it), code it and present it
> to the world.
>   e.. Design a large feature that requires collaboration with others, or if
> possible, learn to work with people on parts of a feature or test one.
>   f.. Be able to explain a feature to users, either something you wrote or
> someone else has written.
> The items listed above are some of the activities a typical large software
> engineering team (such as NVDA developers) go through, especially for an
> international community like ours. I personally place higher emphasis on
> design and explanations. In case of feature explanations, this is the reason
> why I always ask add-on writers to write up a short readme explaining how to
> use their add-ons.
>
> One of the things I did, which not only benefited the community but also
> something I enjoyed doing (and wanted to do for a while), is writing add-on
> internals. Basically, I would sit down in my “lab” (in front of my computers
> at home), sip through add-on source codes and think about the overall design
> of the add-on, its purpose, and what authors would have felt when they wrote
> add-ons. These notes, along with handy references were collected into an
> article that varies in length from an essay (four or five pages) to a thesis
> that’s suitable for graduate schools sort of (more than 70 pages long)
> depending on my overall familiarity with the add-on and if certain features
> need deeper exploration and explanation. This opportunity also gave me a
> chance to study the NVDA screen reader source more deeply, which became the
> basis for an idea I have about organizing a six month long course on diving
> into NVDA source code (in the book form, it’ll span at least a hundred
> pages, possibly more); I say “six months” due to vast amount of knowledge
> the NVDA source code contains, as well as give background info and explain
> the rationale behind some design choices made, along with some breaks in
> between.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
> swwatts3@...
> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 4:47 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] I am interested in programming for NVDA
>
>
>
> Hi Joseph and Tony,
>
> I apologize for the misleading post earlier.  I have no experience with
> Python and very limited coding experience with HTML.
>
> By way of background, I have used NVDA intermitently over the past few years
> and have grown to like the program.  I am impressed by the NVDA community
> and those who continue to dedicate time and effort to making it a viable
> screen reader alternative for use in business and education settings.
> Because I have always been interested in learning to code, I thought this
> would be a perfect way to combine my desire to learn with a worthwhile
> endeavor like NVDA.
>
> Let me know if you would like to continue this discussion off-line.
> Otherwise, I am happy to answer questions here.
>
> Kind regards,
> Stephanie
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org





Re: MS Edge browser, how to close it down

John Hedges
 

Edge has one annoying behavior. If you press Alt+F4, instrad of Ctrl+F4 to close a Tab, then if multiple tabs are open… a dialog pops up that does not close with Escape. This dialog asks if you want to close all Tabs or Vancel, which his the default.

John

From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 11:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] MS Edge browser, how to close it down

 

Hi,


I accidentally started Edge.  Now I can't seem to find a way to close it down.  alt+f4 does nothing and I can't seem to get to a ribbon or menu bar.


How do I do this with NVDA?


Dan Beaver


MS Edge browser, how to close it down

Dan Beaver
 

Hi,


I accidentally started Edge.  Now I can't seem to find a way to close it down.  alt+f4 does nothing and I can't seem to get to a ribbon or menu bar.


How do I do this with NVDA?


Dan Beaver


Re: Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

Antony Stone
 

Interesting.

Maybe the original proposer of "switching from an email list to a forum" could
comment on what seems to be missing from what we have now, in that case?

I wasn't aware of the current forum features.


Antony.

On Friday 11 August 2017 at 16:49:22, V Stuart Foote wrote:

The NVDA portal on groups.io already functions as both:

1). functional ML in various subscription modes (digest, message, no-mail
etc) , via the your accounts subscription panel

2). as an effective forum via the Topics view --
https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/topics (
https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/topics ) with messages grouped into threads
with sort options. It includes an effective search

Not clear what more is needed to support users preferring either use mode.
--
Atheism is a non-prophet-making organisation.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

V Stuart Foote
 

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 07:20 am, Antony Stone wrote:
... My main gripe about forums (unless they are also a mailing list in some way)is that I have to log in to it to see if there's anything new which I might benefit from or be able to answer. That's so much less convenient than having messages arrive in my inbox (or in fact my NVDA folder) and be able to answer them as easily as I answer all my other email.
The NVDA portal on groups.io already functions as both:

1). functional ML in various subscription  modes (digest, message, no-mail etc) , via the your accounts subscription panel

2). as an effective forum via the Topics view -- https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/topics with messages grouped into threads with sort options. It includes an effective search

Not clear what more is needed to support users preferring either use mode.


Re: Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes exactly and really in our usage pattern there is no benefit of rich content, ie pictures or any other whizzbang thing as we tend to use text most of the time.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum


People do exactly the same on forums - the same questions get asked time and
again, because if someone's not going to do a search in a mailing list
archive, they're not going to do a search in a forum either.

My main gripe about forums (unless they are also a mailing list in some way)
is that I have to log in to it to see if there's anything new which I might
benefit from or be able to answer. That's so much less convenient than having
messages arrive in my inbox (or in fact my NVDA folder) and be able to answer
them as easily as I answer all my other email.


Antony.

On Friday 11 August 2017 at 14:49:05, Chris wrote:

the major down side of an mailing list is that people are lazy, so instead
of going the web interface and doing a basic search for their
issue/problem they will just send off an email rather than making an
effort to find a solution for their issue/problem Hence unnecessary
traffic and frustration for all


From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 11 August 2017 09:09
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

Yes I don't think the poster has looked properly really.
It serves all possible worlds as it stands.
It of course has the same hassles as any kind of email does that of ISPs
blocking its servers sometimes but it somehow seems to have gotten around
this by sendin you a bouncing message, one assumes using a different server
address so you actually normally get it to be able to unbounce when the
problem jas been cleared.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <@joslee>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

Hi,
Believe it or not, portions of what the original poster (not Sarah and
others) is saying has already been fulfilled: Groups.IO is indeed a forum
provider. Although it isn't strictly a web forum, it has all the features
of
a basic forum, including a group wiki, calendar of events, databases,
hashtags and what not. Some of the facilities Groups.IO offers can be
accessed from the web, including archive management, administrative
tasks, wiki, calendar event creation and what not.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah
k
Alawami
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 10:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

No, if tht is the case I won't participate. I have to memorise enough
passwords already and email for me is more productive as I can take it on
the go or whilest I'm at work.

On Aug 10, 2017, at 8:20 AM, Noah Carver via Groups.Io
<carvernoah309=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi,


Okay, I'm not trying to kick the hornet's nest, but would it be more
beneficial to switch from groups.io to a web forum? PunBB, for example,
is very accessible and configurable, and it can be set up to email users
when they get a message from a forum topic that a user has subscribed
to.

Cheers,


Noah
--
"A person lives in the UK, but commutes to France daily for work.
He belongs in the UK."

- From UK Revenue & Customs notice 741, page 13, paragraph 3.5.1
- http://tinyurl.com/o7gnm4

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

Antony Stone
 

People do exactly the same on forums - the same questions get asked time and
again, because if someone's not going to do a search in a mailing list
archive, they're not going to do a search in a forum either.

My main gripe about forums (unless they are also a mailing list in some way)
is that I have to log in to it to see if there's anything new which I might
benefit from or be able to answer. That's so much less convenient than having
messages arrive in my inbox (or in fact my NVDA folder) and be able to answer
them as easily as I answer all my other email.


Antony.

On Friday 11 August 2017 at 14:49:05, Chris wrote:

the major down side of an mailing list is that people are lazy, so instead
of going the web interface and doing a basic search for their
issue/problem they will just send off an email rather than making an
effort to find a solution for their issue/problem Hence unnecessary
traffic and frustration for all


From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 11 August 2017 09:09
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

Yes I don't think the poster has looked properly really.
It serves all possible worlds as it stands.
It of course has the same hassles as any kind of email does that of ISPs
blocking its servers sometimes but it somehow seems to have gotten around
this by sendin you a bouncing message, one assumes using a different server
address so you actually normally get it to be able to unbounce when the
problem jas been cleared.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <@joslee>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

Hi,
Believe it or not, portions of what the original poster (not Sarah and
others) is saying has already been fulfilled: Groups.IO is indeed a forum
provider. Although it isn't strictly a web forum, it has all the features
of
a basic forum, including a group wiki, calendar of events, databases,
hashtags and what not. Some of the facilities Groups.IO offers can be
accessed from the web, including archive management, administrative
tasks, wiki, calendar event creation and what not.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah
k
Alawami
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 10:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

No, if tht is the case I won't participate. I have to memorise enough
passwords already and email for me is more productive as I can take it on
the go or whilest I'm at work.

On Aug 10, 2017, at 8:20 AM, Noah Carver via Groups.Io
<carvernoah309=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi,


Okay, I'm not trying to kick the hornet's nest, but would it be more
beneficial to switch from groups.io to a web forum? PunBB, for example,
is very accessible and configurable, and it can be set up to email users
when they get a message from a forum topic that a user has subscribed
to.

Cheers,


Noah
--
"A person lives in the UK, but commutes to France daily for work.
He belongs in the UK."

- From UK Revenue & Customs notice 741, page 13, paragraph 3.5.1
- http://tinyurl.com/o7gnm4

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

Chris
 

the major down side of an mailing list is that people are lazy, so instead of going the web interface and doing a basic search for their issue/problem they will just send off an email rather than making an effort to find a solution for their issue/problem

Hence unnecessary traffic and frustration for all

 

 

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 11 August 2017 09:09
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

 

Yes I don't think the poster has looked properly really.

It serves all possible worlds as it stands.

It of course has the same hassles as any kind of email does that of ISPs

blocking its servers sometimes but it somehow seems to have gotten around

this by sendin you a bouncing message, one assumes using a different server

address so you actually normally get it to be able to unbounce when the

problem jas been cleared.

 

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal email to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 6:12 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

 

 

> Hi,

> Believe it or not, portions of what the original poster (not Sarah and

> others) is saying has already been fulfilled: Groups.IO is indeed a forum

> provider. Although it isn't strictly a web forum, it has all the features

> of

> a basic forum, including a group wiki, calendar of events, databases,

> hashtags and what not. Some of the facilities Groups.IO offers can be

> accessed from the web, including archive management, administrative tasks,

> wiki, calendar event creation and what not.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah

> k

> Alawami

> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 10:09 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

> No, if tht is the case I won't participate. I have to memorise enough

> passwords already and email for me is more productive as I can take it on

> the go or whilest I'm at work.

>> On Aug 10, 2017, at 8:20 AM, Noah Carver via Groups.Io

> <carvernoah309@...> wrote:

>> 

>> Hi,

>> 

>> 

>> Okay, I'm not trying to kick the hornet's nest, but would it be more

> beneficial to switch from groups.io to a web forum? PunBB, for example, is

> very accessible and configurable, and it can be set up to email users when

> they get a message from a forum topic that a user has subscribed to.

>> 

>> 

>> Cheers,

>> 

>> 

>> Noah

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>

>

 

 

 

 


Re: Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum

 

I like both.

I am on forums for a few games and such but I rarely every read all the topics I am interested in mainly the top 5 from each catogry otherwise I could spend all day.

Sadly having talked to the admins of some I frequent and managing one with sonnar there are more ways you can hack and crack them.

So your forum becomes full of malware!.

That in itself is fine, you find them, you kill them, you bann their users but with a potential hit of 1-20 or more fake users a day and 10- 1000 topics per day it can take ages to clear a forum and eventually you have to think well maybe I should quit.

On the other side of things, those fakers may just decide to go and open up a can of whip ass on you now and then you have a problem.

The last time audiogames.net got whipped the system was offline for ages, and was banned itself by several places.

I have heard of sites for the blind and others hacked, then banned, then deleted, then the authors blacklisted, and a lot of legal battling before the users finally got out of there.

ANd then there are the times they don't and the user simply packs up his bag, pulls out his car, sends it over the cliff then pulls out a nuke and shoots himself in the head for good measure.

They almost never come back and if they do, they are changed people, some for the better, or they are looking for a fight all the time.

And at the end you have to ask yourself if its worth it to stay up.

I pushed for audiogames to stay active and they did, but sonnar shut its one down as we just didn't have enough users.

There is a user though that has ideas, has problems, takes himself straight to jail, no passing go or anything, comes back and does it over and over and over.

Believe me, unless you really want to shove for it I'd leave the list here.

On 11/08/2017 8:06 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Too complicated and messy. I think one can control it well enough from the web interface now and those who don't can see the emails and sort them locally surely?
No real point at all.
I like lists. Common interface for all. See my later post on this.
I'd object most strongly if email was opt in for all users. Much prefer the controls to be opt out as now.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Noah Carver via Groups.Io" <carvernoah309=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 4:20 PM
Subject: [nvda] Suggestion: Switch from Email List to a Forum


Hi,


Okay, I'm not trying to kick the hornet's nest, but would it be more beneficial to switch from groups.io to a web forum? PunBB, for example, is very accessible and configurable, and it can be set up to email users when they get a message from a forum topic that a user has subscribed to.


Cheers,


Noah





.


Re: changing the reading order in thunder bird

Gene
 

The tutorial appears to be out of date or if not, it is giving instructions for a different layout the user has to change before working with the tutorial.  I have thunderbird on my machine but I don't use it.  But the procedure I need to use, and I haven't changed the layout, is the following:
When on the message headers, in object navigation, I need to use NVDA key numpad 4 to move left by object until I get to list.  I then move down with NVDA key numpad 2 to move down through child objects.  When I get to the point where I can't move any farther down, I use NVDA key numpad 4 to move to the right through different objects,  After moving through a number of them, I get to the button described about selecting which fields will be shown.  The objects I move through before I get to the button are the sort by objects discussed later in the tutorial when changing the order of columns is discussed.
 
I didn't go further in this procedure but I suspect the rest of the description is correct or can easily be seen how to modify.  The procedure for changing the order of columns works but again, at least as my Thunderbird is set for the interface, you have to use the procedure I gave above to get to the right place.  You can then move and see all the sort by objects described.
 
Gene. 

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] changing the reading order in thunder bird

I listened to the procedure and that isn't the procedure that people used to use with Window-eyes and JAWS.  but if this procedure works, that's the important point.  Whether the old procedure still works after so many new Thunderbird versions since it was described is something I don't know.  And whether the old procedure can be done with NVDA is also something I don't know.
 
But if people can't get the procedure described in the tutorial to work, if someone explains the old procedure, that might be another option. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] changing the reading order in thunder bird

I just checked and I see that an audio tutorial on how to move the positions of columns is linked to on the other Gene's page.  I may play with the procedure and see if I can get it to work. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 3:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] changing the reading order in thunder bird

I thought I could find information about how to do these things with Google searches but I tried a lot of different ones and found almost nothing.  So probably any meaningful help will have to come from list members or members on other lists. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] changing the reading order in thunder bird

You don't have to delete columns and I wouldn't assume the order of adding them would affect the order in which they are displayed.  I haven't looked at the information on the site but there are two inaccessible, even after all these years, things you can do by dragging and dropping.  You can change which columns are shown and you can also change their order.  But whether you can move headers up or down in any other way, such as you suggest is something I don't know and instead of experimenting with this unfriendly perhaps possible solution, the best approach would be, I think, to learn how to move headers.  People wrote methods to do this using JAWS and Window-eyes.  With the demise of Window-eyes, this information may not be available any longer.  But someone adapted the procedure for JAWS.  You might be able to find the procedure by doing Google searches for something like changing order headers Thunderbird JAWS and another search for the same phrase with Window-eyes used instead of JAWS.  Or maybe, someone will tell you how, using NVDA or another screen-reader here. 
 
As I recall, you need to find graphics and not just try to move things when you are on text. 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] changing the reading order in thunder bird

Hi Gene,


I can never get this method of changing order of columns to work.  I am
also seeing that you can remove columns one by one.  I haven't had the
nerve to try this yet, but I wonder if you were to remove all the
columns and then add them one by one, would they come in the order you
added them?



On 8/11/2017 12:49 AM, Gene New Zealand wrote:
> hi Bobby
>
>
> check out the section on my website that says about moving columns
> adding them or removing them etc on the following page at
> http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/accessible%20email%20client%20mozilla%20thunderbird.html
>
> You can jump down by headings quickly to that section called they are to
> show and hide columns and drag and drop.
>
>
> hope this helps.
>
>
> it can be done but you need to do a little object navigation to do it.
>
>
> Gene nz
>
>
>
> On 10/08/2017 16:23, Bobby Vinton wrote:
>> Hay I was wondering how to make thunder bird say unread first instead
>> of reading the who it's from.  How do I change the statice
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




Re: changing the reading order in thunder bird

Gene
 

I listened to the procedure and that isn't the procedure that people used to use with Window-eyes and JAWS.  but if this procedure works, that's the important point.  Whether the old procedure still works after so many new Thunderbird versions since it was described is something I don't know.  And whether the old procedure can be done with NVDA is also something I don't know.
 
But if people can't get the procedure described in the tutorial to work, if someone explains the old procedure, that might be another option. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] changing the reading order in thunder bird

I just checked and I see that an audio tutorial on how to move the positions of columns is linked to on the other Gene's page.  I may play with the procedure and see if I can get it to work. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 3:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] changing the reading order in thunder bird

I thought I could find information about how to do these things with Google searches but I tried a lot of different ones and found almost nothing.  So probably any meaningful help will have to come from list members or members on other lists. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] changing the reading order in thunder bird

You don't have to delete columns and I wouldn't assume the order of adding them would affect the order in which they are displayed.  I haven't looked at the information on the site but there are two inaccessible, even after all these years, things you can do by dragging and dropping.  You can change which columns are shown and you can also change their order.  But whether you can move headers up or down in any other way, such as you suggest is something I don't know and instead of experimenting with this unfriendly perhaps possible solution, the best approach would be, I think, to learn how to move headers.  People wrote methods to do this using JAWS and Window-eyes.  With the demise of Window-eyes, this information may not be available any longer.  But someone adapted the procedure for JAWS.  You might be able to find the procedure by doing Google searches for something like changing order headers Thunderbird JAWS and another search for the same phrase with Window-eyes used instead of JAWS.  Or maybe, someone will tell you how, using NVDA or another screen-reader here. 
 
As I recall, you need to find graphics and not just try to move things when you are on text. 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] changing the reading order in thunder bird

Hi Gene,


I can never get this method of changing order of columns to work.  I am
also seeing that you can remove columns one by one.  I haven't had the
nerve to try this yet, but I wonder if you were to remove all the
columns and then add them one by one, would they come in the order you
added them?



On 8/11/2017 12:49 AM, Gene New Zealand wrote:
> hi Bobby
>
>
> check out the section on my website that says about moving columns
> adding them or removing them etc on the following page at
> http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/accessible%20email%20client%20mozilla%20thunderbird.html
>
> You can jump down by headings quickly to that section called they are to
> show and hide columns and drag and drop.
>
>
> hope this helps.
>
>
> it can be done but you need to do a little object navigation to do it.
>
>
> Gene nz
>
>
>
> On 10/08/2017 16:23, Bobby Vinton wrote:
>> Hay I was wondering how to make thunder bird say unread first instead
>> of reading the who it's from.  How do I change the statice
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"