Date   

A quick way to be added to the programming list

John J. Boyer
 

Just send a message to
devlearning+subscribe@nvda.groups.io

John

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
that are available at no cost


Re: Has anyone been able to subscribe to devlearning.nvda.grolups.io

Joe Hunter <joehunter@...>
 

just joined the dev group done in seconds


On 8/18/2017 12:57 PM, Chris wrote:

Sorry,

The subscription address is:

devlearning+subscribe@nvda.groups.io

 

 

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 18 August 2017 11:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Has anyone been able to subscribe to devlearning.nvda.grolups.io

 

I asked several questions on this fron earlier in the day but not seen a

reply yet.

Brian

----- Original Message -----

From: "Chris" <chrismedley@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 10:00 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Has anyone been able to subscribe to

devlearning.nvda.grolups.io

 

 

Subscribe email:

devlearning+subscribe@nvda.groups.io

 

 

 

From: John J. Boyer

Sent: 18 August 2017 08:00

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Has anyone been able to subscribe to

devlearning.nvda.grolups.io

 

I sent a message to subscribe@devlearning.nvda.groups.io It was returned

with the error unrouteable address. What's

wrong?

 

John

 

--

John J. Boyer

Email: john.boyer@...

website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org

Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses  live.

Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA

Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM

services

        that are available at no cost

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



VLC and Subtitles

Rob
 

I heard that you could get NVDA to see subtitles while playing a video in VLC. I cannot, however, find them anywhere.
Object nav only shows button after button, even when the subtitle track is enabled. Where is the line of text hiding?


Re: I am interested in programming for NVDA

john poole
 


Hello,
Please add me to your list! 
Regards,
John.  

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I am interested in programming for NVDA

Hello,

I will add anyone I see who has requested interest on this thread to the list. I will manage that sublist for now, but I am looking for someone who wishes to do it with me, or to take it over. If interested, let me know.

Thanks.

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 10:03 AM Dang Manh Cuong <dangmanhcuong@...> wrote:
Is this discuss about making, or joining a group to learn programming base on NVDA? If so, please add me, or so me the address to subscribe.
---------------
 Dang Manh Cuong
 The Assistive technology specialist
 Sao Mai Vocational and assistive center for the blind
52/22 Huynh Thien Loc St., Hoa Thanh ward, Tan Phu dist., HCM, Vietnam.
 Tel: +8428 7302-4488
 E-mail: vanphong@...; congnghe@...
 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SaoMaiCenter
 Website: http://www.trungtamsaomai.org; http://www.saomaicenter.org
 
 Mobile / Zalo: +84 902-572-300
 E-mail: dangmanhcuong@...; cuong@...
 Skype name: dangmanhcuong
 facebook: http://facebook.com/dangmanhcuong
 Twitter: @ManhCuongTech
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I am interested in programming for NVDA

Hello,

Please add me too.

Best
Adriani


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 18.08.2017 um 10:30 schrieb Ralf Kefferpuetz <ralf.kefferpuetz@...>:

Hi Sally,

please add me as well,

cheers,

  Ralf

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sally Kiebdaj
Sent: Donnerstag, 17. August 2017 19:39
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I am interested in programming for NVDA

Hello,

Alright then.

We will wait on a decision for the NVDA group and I will compile interested people by next week.

Once those two things are done, we can look at materials for learning.

Some things have already been suggested on this thread and we can discuss more once we have our own space that doesn't fill others inboxes.

Thanks again!

Sally

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:36 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

I have asked Gene if we can have a subgroup for beginning devs.

Cheers,

Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sally Kiebdaj
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 10:31 AM


To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I am interested in programming for NVDA

Hello all,

sorry to respond only daily.

I have a nice mix of private and public messages now which I am happy to organize into a headcount.

As I understand our purpose, we are people with little or no programming background who want to learn programming through python. Some of us also want to eventually work on NVDA--provided we learn python successfully.

We are looking for some experience people to help coach. Some of the experienced people have a programming background but are learning python along with us and others have both programming and python experience

To sum up, we are mostly starting from an intro to computer science angle as screen reader users who want to learn comp-sci through python and eventually contribute to NVDA.

Once I had a list of interested parties, I was going to email all to do a poll on how we want to communicate. google groups was going to be my default but there are also forums or other shared workspaces that might be easier for collaborative learning.

Although I do not have a programming background, I do have a coordinating background and am happy to be the organizing engine unless others strongly want to take this lead.

I defer to Joseph and others if an NVDA list is appropriate for the scope described above and will compile a list of people who have expressed interest by next week. I'll share that list with whomever is in charge by then, if it is not me.

Thanks all for the enthusiasm! It's good to get this idea off the ground.

Cheers,

Sally

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 4:31 AM, Dennis L <dennisl1982@...> wrote:

Is that we subscribe?

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 2:55 AM


To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I am interested in programming for NVDA

Hi,

I propose “beginningdevs” as the name of the subgroup, with the complete email address being nvda+beginningdevs@groups.io with subject tag of nvda-beginningdevs.

Cheers,

Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 11:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I am interested in programming for NVDA

I see no reason that the list owner would object.  Unless there is an objection, I shall set up a new subgroup later today.  I haven't done this before and if I have any problems, I'll ask about them here but I don't expect to have problems or not any problems I can't figure out.  What, Michael Lee, is your suggestion for a name for the subgroup?  I'm asking because I'm not sure just what its purpose is, to teach Python or to teach python in a context of NVDA development. 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 1:39 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I am interested in programming for NVDA

I think a separate list is most apropriate. The developoment list shouldn't be encumbered with questions from newbies
in programming. That said, I am willing to act as a mentor for a separate list.

John

On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 09:02:59PM -0700, Hector Elias wrote:
> Hi Joseph:
>
> Is that an appropriate mailing list to conduct a discussion of learning Python? Or should we create a separate list?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hector
> > On Aug 16, 2017, at 8:58 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > The most appropriate list to join is nvda-devel (hosted at SourceForge). I'm not qualified to create a subgroup on this forum.
> > Cheers,
> > Joseph
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lenron
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 8:55 PM
> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [nvda] I am interested in programming for NVDA
> >
> > I would be up to joining this list as well. Alsways up for learning something new.
> >
> > On 8/16/17, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
> >> hi.
> >> i wish that learn python too.
> >> here the email address of sally that you and james wanted.
> >> Sally Kiebdaj<fiddle.pup@...>
> >>
> >> On 8/17/17, Hector Elias <hmelias09@...> wrote:
> >>> Correction I was able to find the e-mail, and I have e-mailed Sally
> >>> directly.
> >>>
> >>> Hector
> >>>> On Aug 16, 2017, at 6:58 PM, Hector Elias <hmelias09@...> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello:
> >>>>
> >>>> I would be interested in joining this group. I have some Python
> >>>> experience, and will be taking a course at my community college in a
> >>>> few weeks. Syntax errors are usually caused because there is an
> >>>> error when using the code. I have seen those courses and I found
> >>>> that sometimes they would not describe the syntax correctly; which
> >>>> lead to miss typing the code. Python is case sensitive, or you might
> >>>> have missed a certain punctuation mark.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sally, your e-mail doesn't show up on this thread. I only see the
> >>>> mailing list address. Could you send us your e-mail?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> hector Elias
> >>>>> On Aug 16, 2017, at 12:52 PM, Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hello all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you for the copious advice!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the past, I tried MIT OpenCourseware and MITx 6.00 which are
> >>>>> both versions of their introduction to computer science course
> >>>>> taught in Python. I always ended up in the situation where
> >>>>> following the directions keystroke for keystroke generated a syntax
> >>>>> error and I had no one to ask for help. This is what I want to
> >>>>> avoid by having friends plugging away at it with me and experts on
> >>>>> hand for when we bog down.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If others are interested in finding a book/course and slogging
> >>>>> through it together, please reply to me privately and I am happy to
> >>>>> facilitate communication and coordination off list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I would also be happy to work through any future NVDA specific
> >>>>> programming tutorials.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, drop me a line if you would like to plod through this in a
> >>>>> group with me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hope to hear from some of you on this thread.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sally
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 8/13/2017 4:21 PM, John J. Boyer wrote:
> >>>>>> You don't have to learn python the hard way. What you need is a
> >>>>>> tutorial that assumes no probramming experience and no familiarity
> >>>>>> with programming concepts. Manuals aren't it. They are for
> >>>>>> programmers learning a new language. What is needed is a turorial
> >>>>>> written by someone who has experience teaching programming from
> >>>>>> the ground up.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> John
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 12:11:01PM -0700, J.G wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> as I have written, beginners to programing should take a
> >>>>>>> tutorials/manuals, which are simple and explain python in plain
> >>>>>>> language so it can be understandable for all of us. I suggest you:
> >>>>>>> https://learnpythonthehardway.org/ (
> >>>>>>> https://learnpythonthehardway.org/
> >>>>>>> )
> >>>>>>> there are books, which can help you self-teaching coding. these
> >>>>>>> are divided in cca 50 section - exercises. through them you can
> >>>>>>> begin to know how to programing.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> warning: if you really want to code, you will have to train
> >>>>>>> yourself a lot.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> hope this helps and that in this post I was clearer than in my
> >>>>>>> previous message.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> regards, Jožef
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
> >> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
> >> in the very authentic narration is:
> >> imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
> >> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
> >> al-islam.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lenron Brown
> > Cell: 985-271-2832
> > Skype: ron.brown762
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@...
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses  live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
        that are available at no cost

--
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Re: slightly ot, braille contraction confusion

Anne Günther
 

Hi Listers,
Sorry, but you telling me that you don't like uefb (either) doesn't really help me here. :-)
So I'll try to ask the question a bit differently. Why does the uefb table in nvda shows different symbols/contractions than the official cheat sheet? And will that be changed or will there be an extra table? Since there's a fair chance I'll have to teach the stuff there's no chance of me getting around it in the long run. :-)
take care, Guenni


Re: slightly ot, braille contraction confusion

Peter Beasley
 

UEB is rubbish.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 10:22 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] slightly ot, braille contraction confusion

Well if its any consolation some of us are not happy about UAB either, and
since I do not use it on computers it matters little, but is annoying when
you get some things labelled in some mix and match form of the code and
wonder how we got to this confused state.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anne Günther" <ag82lca@leseguenni.de>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 11:31 PM
Subject: [nvda] slightly ot, braille contraction confusion


Hi,
I'm from Germany. So that,s my first language' Which means I'm only semi fluent in reading english contractions. So I looked for a cheat sheet. During my search I learned that ueb is now generally adopted "everywhere". I also found a list of symbols and to my... not exactly great yoy I found out, that a fair amount is different than I learned it. But when I switched to the unified braille table in nvda it looked a lot more like what I'm used to. So what's with all that?
best wishes, Guenni




Re: Doing Google Searches

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well, we are talking human nature here I think. its always easier to ask somebody who has gone further down the road than you, what is around the corner.

Google searches can of course be very misleading due to the way some web sites cheat by adding invisible pointless words so Google sees it, even when inappropriate.

Remember many people using computers early in the learning curve do not use " or: etc very well in searches either. and even if they do, still sometimes the item you want is not obvious.

Also as we have said before here, some find googles blunderbuss approach dodgy as you can, sometimes pick up some very dubious links on there that are best left unclicked.

I'd also say that most people should add ad blockers to their browsers and then many of the cluttering you encounter go away.
Until advertisers learn to make adverts not compromise access to an accessible web site this is the only way I can work.
Sad since I know the ads pay for the sites, but then I'm not the idiot designing stupid animations and scrollers and other graphical rubbish for a basically textual sites adverts.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre Fisher" <fishersmails123@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:28 PM
Subject: [nvda] Doing Google Searches


Hi.
A quick query. Lately, I have realized that most persons subscribed to this list, rather than going to Google or a search engine of their choice, seek to ask questions here prior to doing this type of research. I’d seriously like to know why, as I find this practice to be counterproductive. Why do I say this? Because sometimes, the responses that are given are incorrect. Why don’t persons read the NVDA User Guide, for example. It is well detailed. Could persons explain this to me?


Re: I couldn't subscribe to devlearning. [Mailer-Daemon@mailbox.supranet.net: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender]

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I concur.
I hate forums and try to use web stuff as little as possible because you have the double whammy of being blind, so sites not designed with no global view by the user in mind and secondly you have to then figure out if the site has an understandable logic to it to allow faster use. Sadly the groups.io fails at both in this particular case. I got the impression it was a bolt on goody, and not enough thought was put into it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I couldn't subscribe to devlearning. [Mailer-Daemon@mailbox.supranet.net: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender]


Travis,

I'm not going to say anything after this. But if you think the random user of this group is going to use the web interface in the first place there is ample evidence that this is contrary to fact. If they do, if you think they'll "drill down" after a search that's even less likely.

I wouldn't drill down after a group name search because subgroups should be plainly identified. They are not.

Interfaces need to be designed around what "most people" would do. You, clearly, are not most people, you work far harder than most are willing to, which is a great thing. But if interfaces were designed for folks like you well over half the world would be unable to locate a darned thing, and that's based on observations from having been in this business since the 1980s. People are generally lazy, on the whole, and a good user interface takes that into account.
--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063 (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

* * *The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.* * But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another* * profound truth.*

* ~ * *Niels Bohr*


Re: slightly ot, braille contraction confusion

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well if its any consolation some of us are not happy about UAB either, and since I do not use it on computers it matters little, but is annoying when you get some things labelled in some mix and match form of the code and wonder how we got to this confused state.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anne Günther" <ag82lca@leseguenni.de>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 11:31 PM
Subject: [nvda] slightly ot, braille contraction confusion


Hi,
I'm from Germany. So that,s my first language' Which means I'm only semi fluent in reading english contractions. So I looked for a cheat sheet. During my search I learned that ueb is now generally adopted "everywhere". I also found a list of symbols and to my... not exactly great yoy I found out, that a fair amount is different than I learned it. But when I switched to the unified braille table in nvda it looked a lot more like what I'm used to. So what's with all that?
best wishes, Guenni



Re: Doing Google Searches

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes there are also people who tend to have a weird effect the minute they walk anywhere near your pc. I used not to believe in this effect, but i have a friend who only needs to come in and sit near me and things start to misbehave.

Of course there are those who just do not get into the windows concept or indeed the computers concept at all and for them the whole thing is black magic and completely incomprehensibility. they will click a link merely cos its there and then wonder why they get malware.
I have never ever had to reformat a machine only I use.
It is only those who are very bad at thinking about what they are doing that seem to have problems. Of course hardware fails, power outages can corrupt discs etc, but under normal conditions things are retrievable.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches


<sigh>

I get this with a few users I fix their systems that want me to fix a mistake they keep making.

Even with my best intentions they always seem not to take my advice.

I'd like to say to them, simply, pick up your laptop, and throw it outside your window into a drum of petrol and set that on fire then quit bugging me for all time.

I don't do this, I simply tell them that they should reformat and that a good reformat fixes everything, and if they have any issue they should reformat and quit bothering me which is the same thing.

I then give them some software and send them on their way.

I have had to do this to a person that wishes to crack software, gets viruses and stuff and treats her technology like I would treat my bike or my running shorts at the gym.

That is beat it all till it doesn't work, then fixes things and says it works.

No pride at all.

I have happily only had to do this with about 3 people in the same place mainly because they did the same thing over and over and that got on my whick.

There are just some people that shouldn't use a pc I guess.

Sucks to be them but one can only handle the same issue day to day for so long.




On 19/08/2017 6:00 p.m., Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I actually got kicked off a list for telling someone to listen to x y and z's podcast on a subject. They wanted me to write the answer down in text. Um? Huh? It was not this list, it was a different one I had ben on for about 7 years. The moderators of that list basically told me off list I was being lazy. I don't think so as at the time this podcaster did a better job then I at explaining how to do the steps the person asking the question had. If all of this what I said makes sense, that's good. Lol.
On Aug 18, 2017, at 10:00 PM, Melissa Jean <Melissa.J.Hammitt@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not sure what other people were thinking with their responses, but I know for certain that mine was not meant to be rude in anyway. I know for me, speaking from personal experience, listing what I do to find answers was supposed to be helpful in someway. I did not really see anywhere where someone said people who don't Google first shouldn't be asking questions… Or anything along those lines. So, I don't really get this whole jump on the bandwagon and attacked people who ask the question "why don't people Google? "
Just from observing over the years it seems that the people who jump on the people asking "why don't people google? "Are worse and the people who actually to ask why people don't do it a certain way…

Melissa
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 18, 2017, at 11:35 PM, Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com <mailto:nedster66@gmail.com>> wrote:

Preach it Andy. I thought that’s what this list is for. If someone can’t find whatever it is using google. Then he she should be able to ask for any kind of help!
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: August-18-17 9:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches
Amen, Andy. I couldn't agree more. I almost left this list because I felt that a question wasn't being answered. If a person has tried searching for the answer on google or another search engine and can't find the answer, then he should be able to ask a question. After all, isn't that what this list is about--helping one another when we get stuck or have trouble finding an answer?
Rosemarie
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches
This issue comes up from time to time, mostly on blind related lists. Interestingly, when among sighted people who have a tech question from time to time, usually if one knows the answer, they just give it. why have these lists at all if one can't feel comfortable asking a question? Now, if the same person asks questions repeatedly, and asks the same question over and over again, it may be appropriate to refer him or her to a resource, or advise that they may want to seek training, but i think that telling someone to "Google it" when they occasionally ask a question is rather harsh.
Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah k Alawami <mailto:marrie12@gmail.com>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches
Most of us including myself are lazy. Ok, I'll google for something but if I just can't find the answer or the pages are 10 years old (this did happen to me a few times) I will ask on a list and point to the steps I took to troubleshoot the issue, and the steps I tool to try and figure out on my own how to do what ever it is I'm trying to do with nvda, narrator, voiceover, talkback etc.
Take care
On Aug 18, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Andre Fisher <fishersmails123@gmail.com <mailto:fishersmails123@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi.
A quick query. Lately, I have realized that most persons subscribed to this list, rather than going to Google or a search engine of their choice, seek to ask questions here prior to doing this type of research. I’d seriously like to know why, as I find this practice to be counterproductive. Why do I say this? Because sometimes, the responses that are given are incorrect. Why don’t persons read the NVDA User Guide, for example. It is well detailed. Could persons explain this to me?



Re: Doing Google Searches

Rob
 

Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:
I actually got kicked off a list for telling someone to listen to x y and z's podcast on a subject. They wanted me to write the answer down in text.
Not everybody can listen to podcats. Some of us are deaf too. This often doesn't get considered, although it really should be.


Re: Doing Google Searches

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


Obviously, I was totally kidding. Never mind my smart ass comment. I couldn't resist though, to lighten things up a bit with humor. I'm not gonna keep it up though, I promise. I dont' wanna bomb the list with unnecessary messages, in all seriousness.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 1:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

Hahahahahahahahaha. That was a good one.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 10:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

Can someone google for me how to Google? Oh, wait.

---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 1:28 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

I'm not concerned with the question mainly from the standpoint of the list.  Whenever the question comes up, it is debated, no minds are changed, and the debate fades away.  But what about how blind people use the Internet in general?  Based on what I see in the way blind people ask questions on vvarious lists, my conclusion is that the majority of blind people don't use the Internet to look up information much, not necessarily list questions, but information in a wide variety of cases.  Sighted people look up so much so constantly now that there are articles commenting on how Googling everything ruins conversations and stops the fun of debating contested information.  Aside from that, by not using Google well, blind people don't get access to a lot of information that they could get and that sighted people would Google without a moment's thought.  For most of my life, access to information was one of the most limiting aspects of blindness.  There was no practical way to have a dictionary, I mean a really good dictionary nor was there any practical way of having an encyclopedia nor all sorts of reference books.  Now, I have equal access to an enormous amount of information.  Blind people, now that such an enormous amount of information is available, are handicapping themselves.  If a blind person knows little or nothing about using the Internet, that's one thing.  But I see a lot of people whom I believe have reasonable if not better Internet skills ask all sorts of questions they could look up.  I'm not talking mostly about technical information.  I'm leaving the question of lists out out of my discussion.  But people ask all sorts of questions sighted people would look up such as, what is this book about, what is this movie about, what is this product, what is this food.  Of course, sighted people discuss such questions but they also look up an enormous amount of information, often too much or too much too quickly to enjoy a good discussion or debate.  But it appears to me that a lot of blind people look up far too little.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 11:16 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

Amen, Andy. I couldn't agree more. I almost left this list because I felt that a question wasn't being answered. If a person has tried searching for the answer on google or another search engine and can't find the answer, then he should be able to ask a question. After all, isn't that what this list is about--helping one another when we get stuck or have trouble finding an answer?

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

This issue comes up from time to time, mostly on blind related lists. Interestingly, when among sighted people who have a tech question from time to time, usually if one knows the answer, they just give it. why have these lists at all if one can't feel comfortable asking a question? Now, if the same person asks questions repeatedly, and asks the same question over and over again, it may be appropriate to refer him or her to a resource, or advise that they may want to seek training, but i think that telling someone to "Google it" when they occasionally ask a question is rather harsh.

 

Andy

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:47 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

Most of us including myself are lazy. Ok, I'll google for something but if I just can't find the answer or the pages are 10 years old (this did happen to me a few times) I will ask on a list and point to the steps I took to troubleshoot the issue, and the steps I tool to try and figure out on my own how to do what ever it is I'm trying to do with nvda, narrator, voiceover, talkback etc.

 

Take care

On Aug 18, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Andre Fisher <fishersmails123@...> wrote:

 

Hi.

A quick query. Lately, I have realized that most persons subscribed to this list, rather than going to Google or a search engine of their choice, seek to ask questions here prior to doing this type of research. I’d seriously like to know why, as I find this practice to be counterproductive. Why do I say this? Because sometimes, the responses that are given are incorrect. Why don’t persons read the NVDA User Guide, for example. It is well detailed. Could persons explain this to me?

 


Re: Doing Google Searches

 

<sigh>

I get this with a few users I fix their systems that want me to fix a mistake they keep making.

Even with my best  intentions they always seem not to take my advice.

I'd like to say to them, simply, pick up your laptop, and throw it outside your window into a drum of petrol and set that on fire then quit bugging me for all time.

I don't do this, I simply tell them that they should reformat and that a good reformat fixes everything, and if they have any issue they should reformat and quit bothering me which is the same thing.

I then give them some software and send them on their way.

I have had to do this to a person that wishes to crack software, gets viruses and stuff and treats her technology like I would treat my bike or my running shorts at the gym.

That is beat it all till it doesn't work, then fixes things and says it works.

No pride at all.

I have happily only had to do this with about 3 people in the same place mainly because they did the same thing over and over and that got on my whick.

There are just some people that shouldn't use a pc I guess.

Sucks to be them but one can only handle the same  issue day to day for so long.

On 19/08/2017 6:00 p.m., Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I actually got kicked off a list for telling someone to listen to x y and z's podcast on a subject. They wanted me to write the answer down in text. Um? Huh? It was not this list, it was a different one I had ben on for about 7 years. The moderators of that list basically told me off list I was being lazy. I don't think so as at the time this podcaster did a better job then I at explaining how to do the steps the person asking the question had. If all of this what I said makes sense, that's good. Lol.
On Aug 18, 2017, at 10:00 PM, Melissa Jean <Melissa.J.Hammitt@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not sure what other people were thinking with their responses, but I know for certain that mine was not meant to be rude in anyway. I know for me, speaking from personal experience, listing what I do to find answers was supposed to be helpful in someway. I did not really see anywhere where someone said people who don't Google first shouldn't be asking questions… Or anything along those lines. So, I don't really get this whole jump on the bandwagon and attacked people who ask the question "why don't people Google? "
Just from observing over the years it seems that the people who jump on the people asking "why don't people google? "Are worse and the people who actually to ask why people don't do it a certain way…

Melissa
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 18, 2017, at 11:35 PM, Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com <mailto:nedster66@gmail.com>> wrote:

Preach it Andy. I thought that’s what this list is for. If someone can’t find whatever it is using google. Then he she should be able to ask for any kind of help!
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: August-18-17 9:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches
Amen, Andy. I couldn't agree more. I almost left this list because I felt that a question wasn't being answered. If a person has tried searching for the answer on google or another search engine and can't find the answer, then he should be able to ask a question. After all, isn't that what this list is about--helping one another when we get stuck or have trouble finding an answer?
Rosemarie
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches
This issue comes up from time to time, mostly on blind related lists. Interestingly, when among sighted people who have a tech question from time to time, usually if one knows the answer, they just give it. why have these lists at all if one can't feel comfortable asking a question? Now, if the same person asks questions repeatedly, and asks the same question over and over again, it may be appropriate to refer him or her to a resource, or advise that they may want to seek training, but i think that telling someone to "Google it" when they occasionally ask a question is rather harsh.
Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah k Alawami <mailto:marrie12@gmail.com>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches
Most of us including myself are lazy. Ok, I'll google for something but if I just can't find the answer or the pages are 10 years old (this did happen to me a few times) I will ask on a list and point to the steps I took to troubleshoot the issue, and the steps I tool to try and figure out on my own how to do what ever it is I'm trying to do with nvda, narrator, voiceover, talkback etc.
Take care
On Aug 18, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Andre Fisher <fishersmails123@gmail.com <mailto:fishersmails123@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi.
A quick query. Lately, I have realized that most persons subscribed to this list, rather than going to Google or a search engine of their choice, seek to ask questions here prior to doing this type of research. I’d seriously like to know why, as I find this practice to be counterproductive. Why do I say this? Because sometimes, the responses that are given are incorrect. Why don’t persons read the NVDA User Guide, for example. It is well detailed. Could persons explain this to me?


Re: Doing Google Searches

Sarah k Alawami
 

I actually got kicked off a list for telling someone to listen to x y and z's podcast on a subject. They wanted me to write the answer down in text. Um? Huh?  It was not this list, it was a different one I had ben  on for about 7 years. The moderators of that list basically told me off list I was being lazy. I don't think so as at the time this podcaster did a better job then I at explaining how to do the steps the person asking the question had. If all of this what I said  makes sense, that's good. Lol.

On Aug 18, 2017, at 10:00 PM, Melissa Jean <Melissa.J.Hammitt@...> wrote:

I'm not sure what other   people were thinking with their responses, but I know for certain that mine was not meant to be rude in anyway. I know for me, speaking from personal experience, listing what I do to find answers was supposed to be helpful in someway. I did not really see anywhere where someone said people who don't Google first shouldn't   be asking questions… Or anything along those lines. So, I don't really get this whole jump on the bandwagon and attacked people who ask the question "why don't people Google? " 
Just from observing over the years it seems that the people who jump on the people asking "why don't people google? "Are worse and the people who actually to ask why people don't do it a certain way…

Melissa
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 18, 2017, at 11:35 PM, Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:

Preach it Andy. I thought that’s what this list is for. If someone can’t find whatever it is using google. Then he she should be able to ask for any kind of help!
 
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: August-18-17 9:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches
 
Amen, Andy. I couldn't agree more. I almost left this list because I felt that a question wasn't being answered. If a person has tried searching for the answer on google or another search engine and can't find the answer, then he should be able to ask a question. After all, isn't that what this list is about--helping one another when we get stuck or have trouble finding an answer? 
 
Rosemarie 
 
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches
 
This issue comes up from time to time, mostly on blind related lists. Interestingly, when among sighted people who have a tech question from time to time, usually if one knows the answer, they just give it. why have these lists at all if one can't feel comfortable asking a question? Now, if the same person asks questions repeatedly, and asks the same question over and over again, it may be appropriate to refer him or her to a resource, or advise that they may want to seek training, but i think that telling someone to "Google it" when they occasionally ask a question is rather harsh.
 
Andy
 
----- Original Message ----- 
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches
 
Most of us including myself are lazy. Ok, I'll google for something but if I just can't find the answer or the pages are 10 years old (this did happen to me a few times) I will ask on a list and point to the steps I took to troubleshoot the issue, and the steps I tool to try and figure out on my own how to do what ever it is I'm trying to do with nvda, narrator, voiceover, talkback etc. 
 
Take care
On Aug 18, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Andre Fisher <fishersmails123@...> wrote:
 
Hi.
A quick query. Lately, I have realized that most persons subscribed to this list, rather than going to Google or a search engine of their choice, seek to ask questions here prior to doing this type of research. I’d seriously like to know why, as I find this practice to be counterproductive. Why do I say this? Because sometimes, the responses that are given are incorrect. Why don’t persons read the NVDA User Guide, for example. It is well detailed. Could persons explain this to me?
 



Re: Doing Google Searches

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hahahahahahahahaha. That was a good one.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 10:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

Can someone google for me how to Google? Oh, wait.

---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 1:28 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

I'm not concerned with the question mainly from the standpoint of the list.  Whenever the question comes up, it is debated, no minds are changed, and the debate fades away.  But what about how blind people use the Internet in general?  Based on what I see in the way blind people ask questions on vvarious lists, my conclusion is that the majority of blind people don't use the Internet to look up information much, not necessarily list questions, but information in a wide variety of cases.  Sighted people look up so much so constantly now that there are articles commenting on how Googling everything ruins conversations and stops the fun of debating contested information.  Aside from that, by not using Google well, blind people don't get access to a lot of information that they could get and that sighted people would Google without a moment's thought.  For most of my life, access to information was one of the most limiting aspects of blindness.  There was no practical way to have a dictionary, I mean a really good dictionary nor was there any practical way of having an encyclopedia nor all sorts of reference books.  Now, I have equal access to an enormous amount of information.  Blind people, now that such an enormous amount of information is available, are handicapping themselves.  If a blind person knows little or nothing about using the Internet, that's one thing.  But I see a lot of people whom I believe have reasonable if not better Internet skills ask all sorts of questions they could look up.  I'm not talking mostly about technical information.  I'm leaving the question of lists out out of my discussion.  But people ask all sorts of questions sighted people would look up such as, what is this book about, what is this movie about, what is this product, what is this food.  Of course, sighted people discuss such questions but they also look up an enormous amount of information, often too much or too much too quickly to enjoy a good discussion or debate.  But it appears to me that a lot of blind people look up far too little.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 11:16 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

Amen, Andy. I couldn't agree more. I almost left this list because I felt that a question wasn't being answered. If a person has tried searching for the answer on google or another search engine and can't find the answer, then he should be able to ask a question. After all, isn't that what this list is about--helping one another when we get stuck or have trouble finding an answer?

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

This issue comes up from time to time, mostly on blind related lists. Interestingly, when among sighted people who have a tech question from time to time, usually if one knows the answer, they just give it. why have these lists at all if one can't feel comfortable asking a question? Now, if the same person asks questions repeatedly, and asks the same question over and over again, it may be appropriate to refer him or her to a resource, or advise that they may want to seek training, but i think that telling someone to "Google it" when they occasionally ask a question is rather harsh.

 

Andy

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:47 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

Most of us including myself are lazy. Ok, I'll google for something but if I just can't find the answer or the pages are 10 years old (this did happen to me a few times) I will ask on a list and point to the steps I took to troubleshoot the issue, and the steps I tool to try and figure out on my own how to do what ever it is I'm trying to do with nvda, narrator, voiceover, talkback etc.

 

Take care

On Aug 18, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Andre Fisher <fishersmails123@...> wrote:

 

Hi.

A quick query. Lately, I have realized that most persons subscribed to this list, rather than going to Google or a search engine of their choice, seek to ask questions here prior to doing this type of research. I’d seriously like to know why, as I find this practice to be counterproductive. Why do I say this? Because sometimes, the responses that are given are incorrect. Why don’t persons read the NVDA User Guide, for example. It is well detailed. Could persons explain this to me?

 


Re: Doing Google Searches

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


Can someone google for me how to Google? Oh, wait.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

I'm not concerned with the question mainly from the standpoint of the list.  Whenever the question comes up, it is debated, no minds are changed, and the debate fades away.  But what about how blind people use the Internet in general?  Based on what I see in the way blind people ask questions on vvarious lists, my conclusion is that the majority of blind people don't use the Internet to look up information much, not necessarily list questions, but information in a wide variety of cases.  Sighted people look up so much so constantly now that there are articles commenting on how Googling everything ruins conversations and stops the fun of debating contested information.  Aside from that, by not using Google well, blind people don't get access to a lot of information that they could get and that sighted people would Google without a moment's thought.  For most of my life, access to information was one of the most limiting aspects of blindness.  There was no practical way to have a dictionary, I mean a really good dictionary nor was there any practical way of having an encyclopedia nor all sorts of reference books.  Now, I have equal access to an enormous amount of information.  Blind people, now that such an enormous amount of information is available, are handicapping themselves.  If a blind person knows little or nothing about using the Internet, that's one thing.  But I see a lot of people whom I believe have reasonable if not better Internet skills ask all sorts of questions they could look up.  I'm not talking mostly about technical information.  I'm leaving the question of lists out out of my discussion.  But people ask all sorts of questions sighted people would look up such as, what is this book about, what is this movie about, what is this product, what is this food.  Of course, sighted people discuss such questions but they also look up an enormous amount of information, often too much or too much too quickly to enjoy a good discussion or debate.  But it appears to me that a lot of blind people look up far too little.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

Amen, Andy. I couldn't agree more. I almost left this list because I felt that a question wasn't being answered. If a person has tried searching for the answer on google or another search engine and can't find the answer, then he should be able to ask a question. After all, isn't that what this list is about--helping one another when we get stuck or have trouble finding an answer?

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

This issue comes up from time to time, mostly on blind related lists. Interestingly, when among sighted people who have a tech question from time to time, usually if one knows the answer, they just give it. why have these lists at all if one can't feel comfortable asking a question? Now, if the same person asks questions repeatedly, and asks the same question over and over again, it may be appropriate to refer him or her to a resource, or advise that they may want to seek training, but i think that telling someone to "Google it" when they occasionally ask a question is rather harsh.

 

Andy

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:47 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

Most of us including myself are lazy. Ok, I'll google for something but if I just can't find the answer or the pages are 10 years old (this did happen to me a few times) I will ask on a list and point to the steps I took to troubleshoot the issue, and the steps I tool to try and figure out on my own how to do what ever it is I'm trying to do with nvda, narrator, voiceover, talkback etc.

 

Take care

On Aug 18, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Andre Fisher <fishersmails123@...> wrote:

 

Hi.

A quick query. Lately, I have realized that most persons subscribed to this list, rather than going to Google or a search engine of their choice, seek to ask questions here prior to doing this type of research. I’d seriously like to know why, as I find this practice to be counterproductive. Why do I say this? Because sometimes, the responses that are given are incorrect. Why don’t persons read the NVDA User Guide, for example. It is well detailed. Could persons explain this to me?

 


Re: Doing Google Searches

Gene
 

I'm not concerned with the question mainly from the standpoint of the list.  Whenever the question comes up, it is debated, no minds are changed, and the debate fades away.  But what about how blind people use the Internet in general?  Based on what I see in the way blind people ask questions on vvarious lists, my conclusion is that the majority of blind people don't use the Internet to look up information much, not necessarily list questions, but information in a wide variety of cases.  Sighted people look up so much so constantly now that there are articles commenting on how Googling everything ruins conversations and stops the fun of debating contested information.  Aside from that, by not using Google well, blind people don't get access to a lot of information that they could get and that sighted people would Google without a moment's thought.  For most of my life, access to information was one of the most limiting aspects of blindness.  There was no practical way to have a dictionary, I mean a really good dictionary nor was there any practical way of having an encyclopedia nor all sorts of reference books.  Now, I have equal access to an enormous amount of information.  Blind people, now that such an enormous amount of information is available, are handicapping themselves.  If a blind person knows little or nothing about using the Internet, that's one thing.  But I see a lot of people whom I believe have reasonable if not better Internet skills ask all sorts of questions they could look up.  I'm not talking mostly about technical information.  I'm leaving the question of lists out out of my discussion.  But people ask all sorts of questions sighted people would look up such as, what is this book about, what is this movie about, what is this product, what is this food.  Of course, sighted people discuss such questions but they also look up an enormous amount of information, often too much or too much too quickly to enjoy a good discussion or debate.  But it appears to me that a lot of blind people look up far too little.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

Amen, Andy. I couldn't agree more. I almost left this list because I felt that a question wasn't being answered. If a person has tried searching for the answer on google or another search engine and can't find the answer, then he should be able to ask a question. After all, isn't that what this list is about--helping one another when we get stuck or have trouble finding an answer?

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

This issue comes up from time to time, mostly on blind related lists. Interestingly, when among sighted people who have a tech question from time to time, usually if one knows the answer, they just give it. why have these lists at all if one can't feel comfortable asking a question? Now, if the same person asks questions repeatedly, and asks the same question over and over again, it may be appropriate to refer him or her to a resource, or advise that they may want to seek training, but i think that telling someone to "Google it" when they occasionally ask a question is rather harsh.

 

Andy

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:47 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

Most of us including myself are lazy. Ok, I'll google for something but if I just can't find the answer or the pages are 10 years old (this did happen to me a few times) I will ask on a list and point to the steps I took to troubleshoot the issue, and the steps I tool to try and figure out on my own how to do what ever it is I'm trying to do with nvda, narrator, voiceover, talkback etc.

 

Take care

On Aug 18, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Andre Fisher <fishersmails123@...> wrote:

 

Hi.

A quick query. Lately, I have realized that most persons subscribed to this list, rather than going to Google or a search engine of their choice, seek to ask questions here prior to doing this type of research. I’d seriously like to know why, as I find this practice to be counterproductive. Why do I say this? Because sometimes, the responses that are given are incorrect. Why don’t persons read the NVDA User Guide, for example. It is well detailed. Could persons explain this to me?

 


Re: Doing Google Searches

 

I'm not sure what other   people were thinking with their responses, but I know for certain that mine was not meant to be rude in anyway. I know for me, speaking from personal experience, listing what I do to find answers was supposed to be helpful in someway. I did not really see anywhere where someone said people who don't Google first shouldn't   be asking questions… Or anything along those lines. So, I don't really get this whole jump on the bandwagon and attacked people who ask the question "why don't people Google? " 
Just from observing over the years it seems that the people who jump on the people asking "why don't people google? "Are worse and the people who actually to ask why people don't do it a certain way…

Melissa
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 18, 2017, at 11:35 PM, Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:

Preach it Andy. I thought that’s what this list is for. If someone can’t find whatever it is using google. Then he she should be able to ask for any kind of help!

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: August-18-17 9:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

Amen, Andy. I couldn't agree more. I almost left this list because I felt that a question wasn't being answered. If a person has tried searching for the answer on google or another search engine and can't find the answer, then he should be able to ask a question. After all, isn't that what this list is about--helping one another when we get stuck or have trouble finding an answer?

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

This issue comes up from time to time, mostly on blind related lists. Interestingly, when among sighted people who have a tech question from time to time, usually if one knows the answer, they just give it. why have these lists at all if one can't feel comfortable asking a question? Now, if the same person asks questions repeatedly, and asks the same question over and over again, it may be appropriate to refer him or her to a resource, or advise that they may want to seek training, but i think that telling someone to "Google it" when they occasionally ask a question is rather harsh.

 

Andy

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:47 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

Most of us including myself are lazy. Ok, I'll google for something but if I just can't find the answer or the pages are 10 years old (this did happen to me a few times) I will ask on a list and point to the steps I took to troubleshoot the issue, and the steps I tool to try and figure out on my own how to do what ever it is I'm trying to do with nvda, narrator, voiceover, talkback etc.

 

Take care

On Aug 18, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Andre Fisher <fishersmails123@...> wrote:

 

Hi.

A quick query. Lately, I have realized that most persons subscribed to this list, rather than going to Google or a search engine of their choice, seek to ask questions here prior to doing this type of research. I’d seriously like to know why, as I find this practice to be counterproductive. Why do I say this? Because sometimes, the responses that are given are incorrect. Why don’t persons read the NVDA User Guide, for example. It is well detailed. Could persons explain this to me?

 


Re: Doing Google Searches

Andy
 


If it is a prerequisite that one only come to this list to ask questions as a last resort, then that should be specified in the list description. I have a neighbor who is a tech. if I ask him a question that is within his area of expertise, he has never asked me what other sources I consulted before asking him. I don't know why blind persons are so hard on each other. Every moment doesn't have to be a teachable one. Freud was quoted as saying, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".
 
Andy
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Arlene
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

Preach it Andy. I thought that’s what this list is for. If someone can’t find whatever it is using google. Then he she should be able to ask for any kind of help!

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: August-18-17 9:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

Amen, Andy. I couldn't agree more. I almost left this list because I felt that a question wasn't being answered. If a person has tried searching for the answer on google or another search engine and can't find the answer, then he should be able to ask a question. After all, isn't that what this list is about--helping one another when we get stuck or have trouble finding an answer?

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

This issue comes up from time to time, mostly on blind related lists. Interestingly, when among sighted people who have a tech question from time to time, usually if one knows the answer, they just give it. why have these lists at all if one can't feel comfortable asking a question? Now, if the same person asks questions repeatedly, and asks the same question over and over again, it may be appropriate to refer him or her to a resource, or advise that they may want to seek training, but i think that telling someone to "Google it" when they occasionally ask a question is rather harsh.

 

Andy

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:47 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

Most of us including myself are lazy. Ok, I'll google for something but if I just can't find the answer or the pages are 10 years old (this did happen to me a few times) I will ask on a list and point to the steps I took to troubleshoot the issue, and the steps I tool to try and figure out on my own how to do what ever it is I'm trying to do with nvda, narrator, voiceover, talkback etc.

 

Take care

On Aug 18, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Andre Fisher <fishersmails123@...> wrote:

 

Hi.

A quick query. Lately, I have realized that most persons subscribed to this list, rather than going to Google or a search engine of their choice, seek to ask questions here prior to doing this type of research. I’d seriously like to know why, as I find this practice to be counterproductive. Why do I say this? Because sometimes, the responses that are given are incorrect. Why don’t persons read the NVDA User Guide, for example. It is well detailed. Could persons explain this to me?

 


Re: Doing Google Searches

Arlene
 

Preach it Andy. I thought that’s what this list is for. If someone can’t find whatever it is using google. Then he she should be able to ask for any kind of help!

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: August-18-17 9:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

Amen, Andy. I couldn't agree more. I almost left this list because I felt that a question wasn't being answered. If a person has tried searching for the answer on google or another search engine and can't find the answer, then he should be able to ask a question. After all, isn't that what this list is about--helping one another when we get stuck or have trouble finding an answer?

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

This issue comes up from time to time, mostly on blind related lists. Interestingly, when among sighted people who have a tech question from time to time, usually if one knows the answer, they just give it. why have these lists at all if one can't feel comfortable asking a question? Now, if the same person asks questions repeatedly, and asks the same question over and over again, it may be appropriate to refer him or her to a resource, or advise that they may want to seek training, but i think that telling someone to "Google it" when they occasionally ask a question is rather harsh.

 

Andy

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 4:47 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Doing Google Searches

 

Most of us including myself are lazy. Ok, I'll google for something but if I just can't find the answer or the pages are 10 years old (this did happen to me a few times) I will ask on a list and point to the steps I took to troubleshoot the issue, and the steps I tool to try and figure out on my own how to do what ever it is I'm trying to do with nvda, narrator, voiceover, talkback etc.

 

Take care

On Aug 18, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Andre Fisher <fishersmails123@...> wrote:

 

Hi.

A quick query. Lately, I have realized that most persons subscribed to this list, rather than going to Google or a search engine of their choice, seek to ask questions here prior to doing this type of research. I’d seriously like to know why, as I find this practice to be counterproductive. Why do I say this? Because sometimes, the responses that are given are incorrect. Why don’t persons read the NVDA User Guide, for example. It is well detailed. Could persons explain this to me?