Date   

Re: problem with latest NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

Is there a GitHub issue for the problem with the system tray (I see a couple of closed issues just asking for a dialog), but I would word this as a problem navigating the system tray with that particular Wi-Fi chipset.  Yes a dialog listing the system tray icons may be one way to fix this, but I would approach it from the point of view of the problem, rather than your preferred solution (just suggesting).

Regards

Quentin.

On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
You don't have to use the Windows utility.  You can use the system tray add on for reliable and convenient access to the system tray.  And this isn't about getting access to the network settings alone.  Another very important aspect of the problem is that if you don't intend to get access to the network settings but are moving through the system tray with the arrow keys, this problem occurs when you move to and intend
to move beyond the icon.  So access to the entire system tray is disrupted even when you have no intention of using the network icon.  The system tray dialog eliminates the problem.
 
\Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 5:55 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA

A workaround should not be required.  the system tray is a very standard way to access various items.  If for some reason, proper access can't be achieved from the keyboard directly and another interface has existed since about 1998 that provides reliable access, it should be incorporated into NVDA.  I shouldn't have to open something else, whyich is less convenient and not the way people usually access the network or WIFI when a perfectly reliable alternative exists for accessing the system tray.  And a lot of people don't know about the system tray add on.  No other screen-reader I know of is without a system tray dialog.  There are good reasons. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA

In this case since it does not work properly then hiding it has no inpact as
you can tick the show wifi on the windows own wireless network applet
instead and this seems to be fine in 7 and ten. Its something weird that
Intel put in.

I don't have wifi on this machine but laptops seem to cope well, indeed when
you retro install a wifi dongle etc, you often get asked if you want to use
the whizz bang set up program they supply or the standard windows  version I
always use the latter. In old XP you cold find this fails to find it, but in
7 and up it seems the various  vendors have finally agreed on a common way
to detect the hardware!

Brian

bglists@...
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briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


And if you hide that setting, how do you conveniently look for WIFI
connections and connect to to networks?  It should not be necessary to hide
a system tray icon.  The system tray dialog should be incorporated into NVDA
because the direct access doesn't work properly and for other reasons I've
given in earlier threads.  This is strong evidence in favor of my argument.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 4:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


You are indeed fortunate indeed then.
 I have seen this on half a dozen machines thus far. Hiding that particular
icon permanently in the settings for the task bar fixes it.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2017 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


I don't have that issue at all actually. Running a custom machine with win
10 32 gigs of ram. In fact I never had that issue running windows 7
virtually now that I recall. I just hit windows plus b and right arrow to
the network icon.
> On Sep 1, 2017, at 8:46 AM, Clive May <may.c@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
>
> It may not be relevant to your problem but...
>
>
> On every machine I have used running Windows 7 or Windows 10, moving to
> the network icon in the system tray stops speech.  My solution is to hit
> ctrl esc to bring up the start menu, at which keystroke speech resumes,
> esc to cancel back to the task bar, tab to the system tray and cursor to
> the network icon.  This time the network button shows and is available.
>
>
> It does not seem to have anything to do with NVDA as the HAL screen-reader
> reacts in exactly the same way.
>
>
> Because it occurs on every machine i have used running 7 and 10, I have
> never thought of it as a problem.
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
> Clive
>
>
>
>
>
> On 01/09/17 15:46, nasrin khaksar wrote:
>> hi.
>> can you please explane me did you have these issues using nvda 17.2 and
>> 17.1?
>> i appreciate your answer.
>> God bless you!
>>
>> On 9/1/17, Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@...> wrote:
>>> I don't know if this is a similar issue, but two or three times since
>>> I've
>>> installed NVDA 17.3 I find that NVDA totally shuts up and can't be
>>> cajoled
>>> back into action other than a hard reset. It happens when I go into
>>> system
>>> tray menus.
>>>
>>> It's usually when I go into Network Settings to re-connect my dropped
>>> internet, and as I came out of it there was total silence. It's maybe 1
>>> in
>>> 20 times this happens (I have a very flakey internet because I live in a
>>> rural part of Wales). Last night when I went to adjust my volume and as
>>> I
>>> hit enter to open the volume slider all NVDA sound died.
>>>
>>> I can CTRL+ALT+Del to go into shutdown options, which speaks with a
>>> different voice (presumably using NVDA, but not my regular settings),
>>> but if
>>> I cancel out to return back to the desktop I'm back to silent mode. I
>>> have a
>>> shortcut to NVDA on my desktop titled znvda so that it's the only
>>> shortcut
>>> begining with a z, so I should be able to jump straight to it. I've also
>>> tried using Win+R to run NVDA that way, but neither one will re-start
>>> NVDA.
>>>
>>> To me it feels more like an operating system error, but I've no real
>>> basis
>>> for thinking that. It only happens once every three or four days max,
>>> but
>>> I'm going to turn logging on so that if / when it happens again I should
>>> have some more informative insight.
>>>
>>> Hope that's helpful even just a tiny amount :)
>>>
>>> Giles
>>>
>>
>
>
>










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Question From A Newbie?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

And its not expensive by the looks of it.
However could I suggest that some people find it nice to open the docs in a browser other than default using a small batch file that specifies the browser and the path and file name of the user guide. the good thing about this is that its always open and not overwritten by the default browser, though I suspect using tabbed browsing might manage the same task.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question From A Newbie?


Hi Donald,

Looks like everyone else has got you sorted with the help documentation,
and do feel free to post any more questions you come up with!

I mostly thought I'd chime in with a quick "ad" for the official "Basic
Training for NVDA" which is a book (available in electronic text, audio or
Braille) designed to walk you through the features of NVDA with extra
explanation as well as activities each step of the way.

It's available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Donald Moore via Groups.Io <
don.moore48=reagan.com@groups.io> wrote:

Could one of you good folks explain how to get to the NVDA documentation?

Thanks in advance!







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: problem with latest NVDA

Ann Byrne
 


Re: quick templates for common tasks

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes, the ramifications are very complex as some of the info required by the Dolphin version of this, was not easy to come by. It needed executable names and lots of details about the api used by the software if one was used at all.
You could easily get a good way in and then find a road block so to speak. If it were this simple then everything could be automated by AI.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis L" <dennisl1982@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] quick templates for common tasks


It sounds great in theory but not possible.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Engin Albayrak
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2017 6:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] quick templates for common tasks



Yes, I want that as a user. I am looking forward results of this study from now.

Thanks, and kongrates You.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 11:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] quick templates for common tasks



hi

I was sitting here thinking of how templates are used in google docs and microsoft office to quickly make resumes and other such things. And then I was struck by an idea I want to run by you guys.

Why not make add-on templates for NVDA? Here is how they would work. An addon template lets non-programmers edit a file to accomplish a specific task such as renaming reclassing objects in certain applications, hitting tab to go through objects in an unuseable application and so on. Lets say you have an inaccessible object you want to make it useable quickly. you open the object reclass template in notepad its a prepared .py file with extensive comments. Most of the work is done for you. the comments may instruct you, however, to get info from the log and paste it here or paste in this bit of code save your file then rename the .py file to what application you want it to act on. templates could be made for global tasks, app specific tasks and so on. Its like a word template but it would be designed to quickly paste in some python code so the non-programmer could do some basic things like reclassing and renaming objects, doing things when objects appear or disappear and so on. What do you think, good idea or not? oh and then when the person is done making the template, they could package it into an addon to share with the community.

some templates may also instruct you to remove comments from certain lines to do things as well. depends on the template and what task you want to quickly get done.

Josh



--
sent with mozilla thunderbird
--
sent with mozilla thunderbird


Re: problem with latest NVDA

Gene
 

You don't have to use the Windows utility.  You can use the system tray add on for reliable and convenient access to the system tray.  And this isn't about getting access to the network settings alone.  Another very important aspect of the problem is that if you don't intend to get access to the network settings but are moving through the system tray with the arrow keys, this problem occurs when you move to and intend
to move beyond the icon.  So access to the entire system tray is disrupted even when you have no intention of using the network icon.  The system tray dialog eliminates the problem.
 
\Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 5:55 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA

A workaround should not be required.  the system tray is a very standard way to access various items.  If for some reason, proper access can't be achieved from the keyboard directly and another interface has existed since about 1998 that provides reliable access, it should be incorporated into NVDA.  I shouldn't have to open something else, whyich is less convenient and not the way people usually access the network or WIFI when a perfectly reliable alternative exists for accessing the system tray.  And a lot of people don't know about the system tray add on.  No other screen-reader I know of is without a system tray dialog.  There are good reasons. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA

In this case since it does not work properly then hiding it has no inpact as
you can tick the show wifi on the windows own wireless network applet
instead and this seems to be fine in 7 and ten. Its something weird that
Intel put in.

I don't have wifi on this machine but laptops seem to cope well, indeed when
you retro install a wifi dongle etc, you often get asked if you want to use
the whizz bang set up program they supply or the standard windows  version I
always use the latter. In old XP you cold find this fails to find it, but in
7 and up it seems the various  vendors have finally agreed on a common way
to detect the hardware!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


And if you hide that setting, how do you conveniently look for WIFI
connections and connect to to networks?  It should not be necessary to hide
a system tray icon.  The system tray dialog should be incorporated into NVDA
because the direct access doesn't work properly and for other reasons I've
given in earlier threads.  This is strong evidence in favor of my argument.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 4:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


You are indeed fortunate indeed then.
 I have seen this on half a dozen machines thus far. Hiding that particular
icon permanently in the settings for the task bar fixes it.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2017 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


I don't have that issue at all actually. Running a custom machine with win
10 32 gigs of ram. In fact I never had that issue running windows 7
virtually now that I recall. I just hit windows plus b and right arrow to
the network icon.
> On Sep 1, 2017, at 8:46 AM, Clive May <may.c@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
>
> It may not be relevant to your problem but...
>
>
> On every machine I have used running Windows 7 or Windows 10, moving to
> the network icon in the system tray stops speech.  My solution is to hit
> ctrl esc to bring up the start menu, at which keystroke speech resumes,
> esc to cancel back to the task bar, tab to the system tray and cursor to
> the network icon.  This time the network button shows and is available.
>
>
> It does not seem to have anything to do with NVDA as the HAL screen-reader
> reacts in exactly the same way.
>
>
> Because it occurs on every machine i have used running 7 and 10, I have
> never thought of it as a problem.
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
> Clive
>
>
>
>
>
> On 01/09/17 15:46, nasrin khaksar wrote:
>> hi.
>> can you please explane me did you have these issues using nvda 17.2 and
>> 17.1?
>> i appreciate your answer.
>> God bless you!
>>
>> On 9/1/17, Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@...> wrote:
>>> I don't know if this is a similar issue, but two or three times since
>>> I've
>>> installed NVDA 17.3 I find that NVDA totally shuts up and can't be
>>> cajoled
>>> back into action other than a hard reset. It happens when I go into
>>> system
>>> tray menus.
>>>
>>> It's usually when I go into Network Settings to re-connect my dropped
>>> internet, and as I came out of it there was total silence. It's maybe 1
>>> in
>>> 20 times this happens (I have a very flakey internet because I live in a
>>> rural part of Wales). Last night when I went to adjust my volume and as
>>> I
>>> hit enter to open the volume slider all NVDA sound died.
>>>
>>> I can CTRL+ALT+Del to go into shutdown options, which speaks with a
>>> different voice (presumably using NVDA, but not my regular settings),
>>> but if
>>> I cancel out to return back to the desktop I'm back to silent mode. I
>>> have a
>>> shortcut to NVDA on my desktop titled znvda so that it's the only
>>> shortcut
>>> begining with a z, so I should be able to jump straight to it. I've also
>>> tried using Win+R to run NVDA that way, but neither one will re-start
>>> NVDA.
>>>
>>> To me it feels more like an operating system error, but I've no real
>>> basis
>>> for thinking that. It only happens once every three or four days max,
>>> but
>>> I'm going to turn logging on so that if / when it happens again I should
>>> have some more informative insight.
>>>
>>> Hope that's helpful even just a tiny amount :)
>>>
>>> Giles
>>>
>>
>
>
>








Re: Important announcement: NVDA 2017.3 is the last version to support Windows versions prior to 7 and Server 2008 R2 service pack 1

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Fine print sounds just the same as ordinary print. There is a good opportunity for an add on that inserts a speed hike on the synth for print below a certain size, just like you hear on the radio commercials!
chuckle.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important announcement: NVDA 2017.3 is the last version to support Windows versions prior to 7 and Server 2008 R2 service pack 1


Note that upgrade offer is only for users of Windows 7 and 8.1 (the same as
the original offer that was open to everyone) - it's on that page but down
the bottom in the fine print.

2017-09-02 11:42 GMT+10:00 Supanut Leepaisomboon <supanut2000@outlook.com>:

[Edited Message Follows]
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: problem with latest NVDA

Gene
 

A workaround should not be required.  the system tray is a very standard way to access various items.  If for some reason, proper access can't be achieved from the keyboard directly and another interface has existed since about 1998 that provides reliable access, it should be incorporated into NVDA.  I shouldn't have to open something else, whyich is less convenient and not the way people usually access the network or WIFI when a perfectly reliable alternative exists for accessing the system tray.  And a lot of people don't know about the system tray add on.  No other screen-reader I know of is without a system tray dialog.  There are good reasons. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA

In this case since it does not work properly then hiding it has no inpact as
you can tick the show wifi on the windows own wireless network applet
instead and this seems to be fine in 7 and ten. Its something weird that
Intel put in.

I don't have wifi on this machine but laptops seem to cope well, indeed when
you retro install a wifi dongle etc, you often get asked if you want to use
the whizz bang set up program they supply or the standard windows  version I
always use the latter. In old XP you cold find this fails to find it, but in
7 and up it seems the various  vendors have finally agreed on a common way
to detect the hardware!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


And if you hide that setting, how do you conveniently look for WIFI
connections and connect to to networks?  It should not be necessary to hide
a system tray icon.  The system tray dialog should be incorporated into NVDA
because the direct access doesn't work properly and for other reasons I've
given in earlier threads.  This is strong evidence in favor of my argument.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 4:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


You are indeed fortunate indeed then.
 I have seen this on half a dozen machines thus far. Hiding that particular
icon permanently in the settings for the task bar fixes it.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2017 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


I don't have that issue at all actually. Running a custom machine with win
10 32 gigs of ram. In fact I never had that issue running windows 7
virtually now that I recall. I just hit windows plus b and right arrow to
the network icon.
> On Sep 1, 2017, at 8:46 AM, Clive May <may.c@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
>
> It may not be relevant to your problem but...
>
>
> On every machine I have used running Windows 7 or Windows 10, moving to
> the network icon in the system tray stops speech.  My solution is to hit
> ctrl esc to bring up the start menu, at which keystroke speech resumes,
> esc to cancel back to the task bar, tab to the system tray and cursor to
> the network icon.  This time the network button shows and is available.
>
>
> It does not seem to have anything to do with NVDA as the HAL screen-reader
> reacts in exactly the same way.
>
>
> Because it occurs on every machine i have used running 7 and 10, I have
> never thought of it as a problem.
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
> Clive
>
>
>
>
>
> On 01/09/17 15:46, nasrin khaksar wrote:
>> hi.
>> can you please explane me did you have these issues using nvda 17.2 and
>> 17.1?
>> i appreciate your answer.
>> God bless you!
>>
>> On 9/1/17, Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@...> wrote:
>>> I don't know if this is a similar issue, but two or three times since
>>> I've
>>> installed NVDA 17.3 I find that NVDA totally shuts up and can't be
>>> cajoled
>>> back into action other than a hard reset. It happens when I go into
>>> system
>>> tray menus.
>>>
>>> It's usually when I go into Network Settings to re-connect my dropped
>>> internet, and as I came out of it there was total silence. It's maybe 1
>>> in
>>> 20 times this happens (I have a very flakey internet because I live in a
>>> rural part of Wales). Last night when I went to adjust my volume and as
>>> I
>>> hit enter to open the volume slider all NVDA sound died.
>>>
>>> I can CTRL+ALT+Del to go into shutdown options, which speaks with a
>>> different voice (presumably using NVDA, but not my regular settings),
>>> but if
>>> I cancel out to return back to the desktop I'm back to silent mode. I
>>> have a
>>> shortcut to NVDA on my desktop titled znvda so that it's the only
>>> shortcut
>>> begining with a z, so I should be able to jump straight to it. I've also
>>> tried using Win+R to run NVDA that way, but neither one will re-start
>>> NVDA.
>>>
>>> To me it feels more like an operating system error, but I've no real
>>> basis
>>> for thinking that. It only happens once every three or four days max,
>>> but
>>> I'm going to turn logging on so that if / when it happens again I should
>>> have some more informative insight.
>>>
>>> Hope that's helpful even just a tiny amount :)
>>>
>>> Giles
>>>
>>
>
>
>








Re: problem with latest NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Interesting, maybe you had an update in or around 20015? Anyway, hide it and if you want to still see wifi, which you cannot do now with the wobbly file, use the built in windows set up which normally works well for me.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


The system tray is universally used for such purposes and if it is incorrectly executing in this case in a lot of computers, how many millions of computers match your technical specifications, then that's a very strong argument to add the system tray dialog. and the problem of something opening, which may be a different problem that occurs under the same conditions, is far more extensive. My Windows 7 laptop is from 2011. It is an Intel machine and I don't know if that matters. I don't lose speech but as I explained something disruptive opens when I move to the icon in the system tray if it is my first time doing so in that session of Windows. The icon is resonding to being selected, not activated. This doesn't matter for a mouse user. it does for a keyboard user. Sometimes, its time to abandon ideology and add something that real world exegencies dictate should be added.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 4:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


It can manifest itself several ways depending on how the desktop is set up
but if you hide that item, then it seems never to block the system again.
You do not really need it as windows ordinary applets let you do all the
same things in any case, and as Isaid earlier, its specific to Intel chipped
networks I think.
There are several Intel applets that run at start up in various places. one
is a security item, which sstrangely does not act the same way.
Brian

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Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2017 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


I didn't have that issue but in my case, if I moved to the network icon, if
it was the first time during that session of Windows, something related to
the icon would open. I don't remember how I closed it now but if I would
pass over the icon by arrowing while moving to something else, unless I was
moving abnormally quickly, it would disrupt what I was doing by opening
whatever it opened. This never happened while using the systray dialog.
also, it was a good while ago, but another icon didn't activate when I used
the system tray. I had to use the system tray icon. I don't know what
people are experiencing in Windows 10 regarding the system tray when
directly accessed as opposed to the system tray menu, but in Windows 7 using
the system tray directly simply did not work as well as the system tray
icon, ideology aside.

Gene
------ Original Message -----

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2017 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


I don't have that issue at all actually. Running a custom machine with win
10 32 gigs of ram. In fact I never had that issue running windows 7
virtually now that I recall. I just hit windows plus b and right arrow to
the network icon.

On Sep 1, 2017, at 8:46 AM, Clive May <may.c@pobroadband.co.uk> wrote:


Hi


It may not be relevant to your problem but...


On every machine I have used running Windows 7 or Windows 10, moving to
the network icon in the system tray stops speech. My solution is to hit
ctrl esc to bring up the start menu, at which keystroke speech resumes, esc
to cancel back to the task bar, tab to the system tray and cursor to the
network icon. This time the network button shows and is available.


It does not seem to have anything to do with NVDA as the HAL screen-reader
reacts in exactly the same way.


Because it occurs on every machine i have used running 7 and 10, I have
never thought of it as a problem.


Best wishes


Clive





On 01/09/17 15:46, nasrin khaksar wrote:

hi.
can you please explane me did you have these issues using nvda 17.2 and
17.1?
i appreciate your answer.
God bless you!

On 9/1/17, Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't know if this is a similar issue, but two or three times since
I've
installed NVDA 17.3 I find that NVDA totally shuts up and can't be
cajoled
back into action other than a hard reset. It happens when I go into
system
tray menus.

It's usually when I go into Network Settings to re-connect my dropped
internet, and as I came out of it there was total silence. It's maybe
1 in
20 times this happens (I have a very flakey internet because I live in
a
rural part of Wales). Last night when I went to adjust my volume and
as I
hit enter to open the volume slider all NVDA sound died.

I can CTRL+ALT+Del to go into shutdown options, which speaks with a
different voice (presumably using NVDA, but not my regular settings),
but if
I cancel out to return back to the desktop I'm back to silent mode. I
have a
shortcut to NVDA on my desktop titled znvda so that it's the only
shortcut
begining with a z, so I should be able to jump straight to it. I've
also
tried using Win+R to run NVDA that way, but neither one will re-start
NVDA.

To me it feels more like an operating system error, but I've no real
basis
for thinking that. It only happens once every three or four days max,
but
I'm going to turn logging on so that if / when it happens again I
should
have some more informative insight.

Hope that's helpful even just a tiny amount :)

Giles


Re: problem with latest NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

In this case since it does not work properly then hiding it has no inpact as you can tick the show wifi on the windows own wireless network applet instead and this seems to be fine in 7 and ten. Its something weird that Intel put in.

I don't have wifi on this machine but laptops seem to cope well, indeed when you retro install a wifi dongle etc, you often get asked if you want to use the whizz bang set up program they supply or the standard windows version I always use the latter. In old XP you cold find this fails to find it, but in 7 and up it seems the various vendors have finally agreed on a common way to detect the hardware!

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


And if you hide that setting, how do you conveniently look for WIFI connections and connect to to networks? It should not be necessary to hide a system tray icon. The system tray dialog should be incorporated into NVDA because the direct access doesn't work properly and for other reasons I've given in earlier threads. This is strong evidence in favor of my argument.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 4:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


You are indeed fortunate indeed then.
I have seen this on half a dozen machines thus far. Hiding that particular
icon permanently in the settings for the task bar fixes it.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2017 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with latest NVDA


I don't have that issue at all actually. Running a custom machine with win
10 32 gigs of ram. In fact I never had that issue running windows 7
virtually now that I recall. I just hit windows plus b and right arrow to
the network icon.
On Sep 1, 2017, at 8:46 AM, Clive May <may.c@pobroadband.co.uk> wrote:

Hi


It may not be relevant to your problem but...


On every machine I have used running Windows 7 or Windows 10, moving to
the network icon in the system tray stops speech. My solution is to hit
ctrl esc to bring up the start menu, at which keystroke speech resumes,
esc to cancel back to the task bar, tab to the system tray and cursor to
the network icon. This time the network button shows and is available.


It does not seem to have anything to do with NVDA as the HAL screen-reader
reacts in exactly the same way.


Because it occurs on every machine i have used running 7 and 10, I have
never thought of it as a problem.


Best wishes


Clive





On 01/09/17 15:46, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi.
can you please explane me did you have these issues using nvda 17.2 and
17.1?
i appreciate your answer.
God bless you!

On 9/1/17, Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know if this is a similar issue, but two or three times since
I've
installed NVDA 17.3 I find that NVDA totally shuts up and can't be
cajoled
back into action other than a hard reset. It happens when I go into
system
tray menus.

It's usually when I go into Network Settings to re-connect my dropped
internet, and as I came out of it there was total silence. It's maybe 1
in
20 times this happens (I have a very flakey internet because I live in a
rural part of Wales). Last night when I went to adjust my volume and as
I
hit enter to open the volume slider all NVDA sound died.

I can CTRL+ALT+Del to go into shutdown options, which speaks with a
different voice (presumably using NVDA, but not my regular settings),
but if
I cancel out to return back to the desktop I'm back to silent mode. I
have a
shortcut to NVDA on my desktop titled znvda so that it's the only
shortcut
begining with a z, so I should be able to jump straight to it. I've also
tried using Win+R to run NVDA that way, but neither one will re-start
NVDA.

To me it feels more like an operating system error, but I've no real
basis
for thinking that. It only happens once every three or four days max,
but
I'm going to turn logging on so that if / when it happens again I should
have some more informative insight.

Hope that's helpful even just a tiny amount :)

Giles


Re: NVDA not reading the message list in Outlook 2016

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Wel I used to disable the preview pane altogether as it slowed stuff down. As for the other issues, I no longer use Outlook. having gone back to thepast with a modified outlook Express. Windows 10 trashes that on alarge updates though.
I suggest you put it back as it was and then alter one thing at a time and see which is the culprit. On here there is a person using Outlook 2003 quite successfully till the last windows 10 update when it randomly exits on some message displays.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Supanut Leepaisomboon" <supanut2000@outlook.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 10:05 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA not reading the message list in Outlook 2016


Hi,
I'm using NVDA 2017.3 on Windows 10 version 1703 and Outlook 2016. For some reason after I made some changes to the views settings NVDA no longer reads the message list. What I've done is...hide the message preview pane, and hide the favorites from the folders list.
Could anyone tell me how to get NVDA to read the message list again in Outlook 2016, without resetting my views settings?


Re: OCR >In Arabic

Mohammed Al Shara
 

hi.

I meant to see if the same can be observed with the OCR in office. they use the same engine. if you can do that it'll be great to know weather it's the same there.


Re: NVDA and Windows older versions

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

That is true, but luckily, you can add a couple of years to that date as we did more than this with xp. As I said, to my knowledge the main reason in the well off world for keeping xp is mainly due to the computer interfacing with expensive medical gear whos makers won't make new drivers for. they want you to rebuy the hardware ripping of the state run NHS in the process.

This has been why they paid Microsoft to support XP till the end of last year.
My last update to XXP was rather surprisingly just this March and this was due to the ransomware network bug being found.
So Microsoft are not all maney grabbing, they did fix an old system and good for them for doing it.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Supanut Leepaisomboon" <supanut2000@outlook.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Windows older versions


But just because Microsoft collect usage information should not be why you shouldn't stay away from Windows 10. I agree that this privacy concern is too...over exaggerated.
Going back to the subject of old unsupported Windows versions...if I am in a situation where my Windows XP machine is too ancient to run even Windows 7, I'd get a second hand desktop that already comes with Windows 7 SP1, which is much cheaper. This way I could continue to update NVDA and other programs and also receive security patches from Microsoft.
But to be honest, my experience with recent versions of NVDA on Windows 7 is that...there's not much difference at all. This is because most of the bug fixes and new features are aimed at users of Windows 10. Soon Windows 7 will meet the same fate as Windows XP as end of life for Windows 7 is only a few years away.


Re: NVDA and Windows older versions

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Actually, lack of some privacy and distribution of data is a lot to do with how we can afford to be on the internet and have affordable products. Advertising is another way, but more and more companies are realising that adverts piss folk off when overdone and in our case, they can make an accessible site completely useless so we put in ad blockers then sites stop you accessijing them till you allow adverts etc.

The big snag with privacy issues is not the collection of data but who gets it and what use they put it to. In a benign world that would be OK but today with unexpected happenings, you just do not know.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Windows older versions


i agree with you about privacy.

On 9/2/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Well I do think this spying thing is a bit to overboard.

Privacy is so overboard all the world is cloud based its everyone
watching everyones back.

The only times its bad is.1. you do something bad, like really bad bad
enough for people to notice.

2. you get hacked and that can happen to just about anyone so its not a
real big reason.

3. if something screws up.

I have had it where I was going away on a trip and had to do the
government benifit thing filling out how long I would be away to make
sure things went right and I didn't get cut off.

Came back to find that I had been cut off.

Rang the people and they said there was a system crash and my data was
never filed.

So the system sent a message but as I was way below the cut off date
they didn't deem it necessary to do much about it.

The result of that was that I got a few useless messages from a system.

In a more extreme case though we lost all net service for a while
because a cloud datacentre just happened to have a drive failier which
shut down a lot of things.

But the thing is things are changing.

This spying lark well you can adjust the settings but I put it like the
y2k thing.

There are movies about y2k being an apocolipse.

A lot of programs were released to counter y2k, the same goes for
spying, and you can turn a lot of stuff off including cortana and
windows update which is spying as well as a lot of windows things as
long as you pay the programmer and maybe get spyware in your system.

Even if you don't use the net yourself you will encounter it from time
to time from government to well banks.

You can't avoid it just continue as you are.




On 2/09/2017 1:03 p.m., Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:
The only reason that I can think of of not upgrading to Windows 10 is if
you really don't want Microsoft to spy on you. But for not upgrading to
Windows 7? I can't think of any valid reasons...there are second hand
Windows 7 computers available at local department stores at cheap prices.
Even my desktop which I got in 2011 with 8GB of RAM and 3.3GHZ Intel Core
I5 costs less than 30000 Thai baht (might be even less than 25000 Thai
baht).
I still like XP though; it's the first OS that I remember using as a
child. I have a Windows XP virtual machine set up so that I can play with
it whenever I want, without damaging my actual computer.




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: NVDA and Windows older versions

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes I think one of the problems for us at the moment is that if you want to back up to local media. recent malware has made it its business to corrupt that first so you have no back up and some cloud services do not protect your back ups from ransom ware either, except Dropbox which can roll back easier than others like Google.
Also I asked a guy in a shop to test some software bundled with large portable hard drives for accessibility and the outcome was very poor. When will companies get the accessibility message?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Windows older versions


Well I do think this spying thing is a bit to overboard.

Privacy is so overboard all the world is cloud based its everyone watching everyones back.

The only times its bad is.1. you do something bad, like really bad bad enough for people to notice.

2. you get hacked and that can happen to just about anyone so its not a real big reason.

3. if something screws up.

I have had it where I was going away on a trip and had to do the government benifit thing filling out how long I would be away to make sure things went right and I didn't get cut off.

Came back to find that I had been cut off.

Rang the people and they said there was a system crash and my data was never filed.

So the system sent a message but as I was way below the cut off date they didn't deem it necessary to do much about it.

The result of that was that I got a few useless messages from a system.

In a more extreme case though we lost all net service for a while because a cloud datacentre just happened to have a drive failier which shut down a lot of things.

But the thing is things are changing.

This spying lark well you can adjust the settings but I put it like the y2k thing.

There are movies about y2k being an apocolipse.

A lot of programs were released to counter y2k, the same goes for spying, and you can turn a lot of stuff off including cortana and windows update which is spying as well as a lot of windows things as long as you pay the programmer and maybe get spyware in your system.

Even if you don't use the net yourself you will encounter it from time to time from government to well banks.

You can't avoid it just continue as you are.




On 2/09/2017 1:03 p.m., Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:
The only reason that I can think of of not upgrading to Windows 10 is if you really don't want Microsoft to spy on you. But for not upgrading to Windows 7? I can't think of any valid reasons...there are second hand Windows 7 computers available at local department stores at cheap prices. Even my desktop which I got in 2011 with 8GB of RAM and 3.3GHZ Intel Core I5 costs less than 30000 Thai baht (might be even less than 25000 Thai baht).
I still like XP though; it's the first OS that I remember using as a child. I have a Windows XP virtual machine set up so that I can play with it whenever I want, without damaging my actual computer.


Re: NVDA and Windows older versions

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well nnot quite. At least at the moment my xp machines still update msse, but a little bird tells me that when a new scan engine comes out this will not install on XP or old Vista systems and one supposes that updates probably won't run either.
I note that Superantispyware still runs on XP, but I've seen no mention ofwhether this will stop. I'd imagine once its built in a new version of the Microsoft compiler it will no longer work unless flags are set to make compatible code which will probably beslowere thant he native one so its a trade off not many would accept.

I think the biggest killer so far of XP is the lack of a browser which is in current development. I can and do still use firefox on a laptop but I'm told I can install windows 7 on it even if its only 32 bit, and why would I not do that? a search for installation media seems to suggest you can still get valid keys.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Windows older versions


Amen, Brian. If he gets a virus or malware, he has nobody to blame but himself. Like they say, either go with the flow or get left behind.



Rosemarie



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 1:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Windows older versions



On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:59 pm, zahra wrote:

i realy cant and dont want to use any version than xp forever!

Then you must understand that choices have consequences. Your choice has consequences. You bear responsibility for that choice.

Please stop demanding that software companies continue to support an operating system that its own maker has not supported for 8 plus years now. This is what is known as a completely unreasonable demand and expectation. It is not ever going to be met, nor should it be.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063 (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

~ Niels Bohr


Re: A delightful change for those wanting to take the code contributions course: subscribe to devlearning subgroup of NVDA forum directly

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Could I ask why you did not just have a new group on its own, it would stop all of this faffing about to stop the main group sending you email?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 5:49 AM
Subject: [nvda] A delightful change for those wanting to take the code contributions course: subscribe to devlearning subgroup of NVDA forum directly


Hi everyone,



If you were looking to take the NVDA code contributions course and are
concerned about having to join the parent NVDA forum first, the following
should make it easier for you to join:



You can now join a subgroup of a mailing list on Groups.IO directly without
first having to sign up for a parent group. This will work if the parent
forum is not restricted (no moderator approval to join). The only caveat to
be aware of is that you need to set no mail on the parent group if you do
not wish to read posts from there.



Thus:



1. Send an email to nvda+devlearning+subscribe@groups.io
<mailto:nvda+devlearning+subscribe@groups.io> .
2. Once you confirm your subscription, send an email to
nvda+nomail@groups.io <mailto:nvda+nomail@groups.io> (optional).



Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Excel reading issues

Chris Mullins
 

I agree, this is a significant accessibility issue as it makes editing cell content and formulae extremely difficult.  It is the same in Excel 2007.  I disabled Win10app essentials add-on in case that affected it but it does not.

 

Cheers

Chris  

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dmitriy
Sent: 1 September 2017 23:26
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Excel reading issues

 

Hi again,

 

As I stated before, I’m using Windows 10 Creater’s Edition with Excel 2010, and NVDA version 2017.3.

I’ve already tried the below steps with all of the add-ons disabled and It still doesn’t read what I need it to read.

I go to any of my already created Excel spreadsheets, and locate a cell I want to work with like a27.

So I go there, press f2 to get to the editing of the cell.

It reads everything when I’m moving through the text with left and right arrow keys.

However, when I want to select a portion of that text either character by character shift+right arrow key or word by word ctrl+shift+right arrow key, NVDA doesn’t read anything I’m selecting.

Obviously, when you press ctrl+c to copy the text it’ll go to the clipboard no problem, but the fact that you don’t know what’s been selected and copied, really bugs me.

 

Maybe there is a solution which I could implement to make everything work as it should.

I’ve tried key echo, and it still behaves the same way.

 

On the other hand, when I’m using Google Sheets, pressing f2 and then selecting text with shift+right arrow makes everything read as it should.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Dmitry


Re: Advisory on future releases for Joseph's add-ons: two add-ons will drop support for Windows XP and other old releases by end of 2017

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Lets just hope not too many older routines are removed from the new versions of nvda. This will allow writers, for example someone writing an app module for OEE Classic to piggy back on the old OE app module and this may well be the case for other routines that may be redundant but still used by an add on on the web site. Somebody will need to keep an eye on this in case it makes an add on unusable on future nvda versions when the original add on author is no longer around to fix it. Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 3:02 AM
Subject: [nvda] Advisory on future releases for Joseph's add-ons: two add-ons will drop support for Windows XP and other old releases by end of 2017


Ladies and gentlemen,



As a follow-up to a recent announcement from NV Access regarding ending
support for old Windows releases, I (Joseph Lee) would like to announce that
two of my add-ons will be ending support for Windows XP by end of this year:



* GoldWave: The next stable version (planned for later in September)
will be the last version to support GoldWave versions earlier than 5.70. A
version planned for early 2018 will require GoldWave 6 or later on Windows 7
SP1 and later (64-bit only).
* Resource Monitor: a stable version planned for early October will be
the last version to recognize Windows versions earlier than Windows Vista
due to newer psutil releases being incompatible with Windows XP and Server
2003. A version to be released in April 2018 at the latest will drop support
for Windows Vista and Server 2008.



I will provide links to download last supported versions of these add-ons
that'll work on older Windows releases. As for other add-ons, it'll depend
on ability to use features from old NVDA releases.



Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Important announcement: NVDA 2017.3 is the last version to support Windows versions prior to 7 and Server 2008 R2 service pack 1

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

If you are visually impaired you are allowed to download it for free as before. That is unless they have removed the page in the last two weeks.
I think you have to have a legal copy of windows 7 or8 though, and I'm not aware of how you prove it as I last did it some time aback. I currently have no windows 10 machine that works as I installed it on an old amd chipped machine whos motherboard died when a power supply blue up after a mains surge. I intend to buy a new laptop before Christmas and that will come with 10, and although I ham a little worried about the current trend toward no keypad and function keys configured as media keys, I imagine the latter can be fixed by a sighted person going into the bios.
If it has the deregistered dll files recently encountered on the cloned Lenovo and other makes then that seems to be a fixable problem now with perhaps a batch file or script.
I'd like a laptop with keypad, merely cos I'm lazy, and despite what a certain Jonathan Mozen might say to try to convince me otherwise!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2017 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important announcement: NVDA 2017.3 is the last version to support Windows versions prior to 7 and Server 2008 R2 service pack 1


Please explain "You can get Windows 10 for free since you're a NVDA user".

How? Where?

Regards,


Antony.

On Saturday 02 September 2017 at 02:47:48, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:

I agree with everyone here. Windows XP is dead since 2014; Freedom
Scientific (now part of VFO) stopped supporting XP since Jaws 16.
Microsoft Office dropped Windows XP support since Office 2013, which is
released more than a full year before end of life for Windows XP. You can
get Windows 10 for free since you're a NVDA user, and if you need a new
computer, there's second-hand computers that comes with Windows 7 (more
recent ones should have SP1 installed) cheaply.
--
BASIC is to computer languages what Roman numerals are to arithmetic.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Question From A Newbie?

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Donald,

Looks like everyone else has got you sorted with the help documentation, and do feel free to post any more questions you come up with!

I mostly thought I'd chime in with a quick "ad" for the official "Basic Training for NVDA" which is a book (available in electronic text, audio or Braille) designed to walk you through the features of NVDA with extra explanation as well as activities each step of the way.

It's available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Donald Moore via Groups.Io <don.moore48@...> wrote:
Could one of you good folks explain how to get to the NVDA documentation?

Thanks in advance!









--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess