Date   

Re: weather plus update

Rich De Steno <ironrock@...>
 

I get the same results!

On 9/4/2017 10:20 AM, Don H wrote:
When I go to the weather plus check for updates I enter on yes to download the update.  The next screen that comes up shows the name of the download and a button to download.  If I hit enter on that download button I get a dialog box saying download cancelled. Several retries gets the same result.




--
Rich De Steno


weather plus update

Don H
 

When I go to the weather plus check for updates I enter on yes to download the update.  The next screen that comes up shows the name of the download and a button to download.  If I hit enter on that download button I get a dialog box saying download cancelled. Several retries gets the same result.


Re: email and nvda

slery <slerythema@...>
 

Outlook 2016 and it has just been reinstalled since I reset my computer. This has made the problem worse.

I thought this list was only for NVDA? Since that is the only screen reader I own and use, that is why I asked on this list.
Cindy

On September 4, 2017 7:24:10 AM "Lino Morales" <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Mozilla Thunderbird is great. If you want less bells and whistles the built in Mail app in Windows 10 should work for you. What version of MS Office are you running? What screen reader do you use? Maybe Office needs to be uninstalled then reinstalled again.


On 9/3/2017 10:20 PM, slery wrote:

I am looking for a new email program (obviously needs to work with NVDA).

 

Must haves: work with gmail, work with multiple email accounts, open multiple folders at the same time

 

Thanks for any help. Outlook keeps crashing every time I try to open a second folder (or even just switch to a different folder within the same window).

Cindy



Re: email and nvda

slery <slerythema@...>
 

HOW do you do this in win mail?




On September 4, 2017 5:24:26 AM "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
<bglists@...> wrote:

Most allow this but seem to slow down the more you open and getting between
them can often be a bit of a fuddle.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "slery" <slerythema@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2017 4:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] email and nvda


How do you open multiple folders?


On September 3, 2017 10:38:35 PM "Jessica D" <jldail13@...> wrote:

Hi,
Have you tried the Mail app in windows 10?
It works quite well with NvDA.

On Sep 3, 2017, at 10:20 PM, slery <slerythema@...> wrote:

I am looking for a new email program (obviously needs to work with
NVDA).

Must haves: work with gmail, work with multiple email accounts, open
multiple folders at the same time

Thanks for any help. Outlook keeps crashing every time I try to open a
second folder (or even just switch to a different folder within the same
window).
Cindy



Re: [NVDA stopping Outlook 2016

slery <slerythema@...>
 

It seems to work when NVDA is not running. Will do more testing and try
narrator as someone suggested.


On September 4, 2017 5:35:41 AM "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
<bglists@...> wrote:

Look back for Sakina's message about Outlook 2003 also stopping for no
apparent reason. I am wondering if this is a Microsoft issue, not an nvda
one concerning something in Office. Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "slery" <slerythema@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2017 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] [NVDA stopping Outlook 2016


I have this problem constantly. It is so bad now that I cannot use any
folder other than the one that is open.

For another problem, my computer was recently reset (office 365 and NVDA
were both among the programs reinstalled. This reset has allowed my
computer to finally get creators update (1703)). The problem with Outlook
is at it's worst.
Cindy


On August 30, 2017 1:21:20 AM "laura cornwell" <cornwelll627@...>
wrote:

Well I am having the same trouble and I don't know where this could
be coming from I would also like to know now when I use the screen
reader that


comes with Windows outlook works fine. all the best to fixing this
trouble. On 8/25/2017 5:31 AM, Chris Mullins wrote:
I have Outlook 2007 and it works fine with NVDA until I try to read the
status bar using NVDA+end when Outlook stops working and I have to
restart
it. This has occurred in quite a few versions of NVDA up to 17.2. I'm
not
saying it's an NVDA problem, it may be something to do with the
interaction
between the information exposed by Outlook and how NVDA obtains it
whichh
causes it. I doubt MS would do anything to solve it, so I just avoid
using that keystroke.

Cheers#

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Sent: 25 August 2017 10:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] [NVDA stopping Outlook 2016

Hi everyone,

I am running Outlook 2016 on Windows 10 with the latest update of NVDA.

Over the past month, I have found that outlook stops and runs out of
time
almost every time (four times a day) that I check my emails. I notice
the
problem particularly when I try to swap between folders. This generates
the
message that Outlook has stopped working and will close. Today, I
downloaded the newest update of NVDA and yet the problem is still
persisting.

I unloaded NVDA and brought up JAWS. With JAWS running I am able to swap
between folders without any delay so I am convinced that NDA is causing
the
problem.

Before loading JAWS, I had a very full outlook .pst file and reduced
that
from 1.2g to 200mb. I have no addins so that can't be the cause.
Has anyone experienced this problem? Is there a known solution?


I would really value a response as I much prefer to use NVDA rather than
JAWS!

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

















Re: getting messages to automatically read in outlook when using NVDA

Antony Stone
 

I'm not quite sure what the problem is here. You say that with JAWS:

"I can open a message and then read it and hit control delete and I will go on
to the next message".

I assume you mean it's deleted the first message as well.

Then you say that with NVDA:

"I can do this it will delete the message that I just read, but then it will
open the next one"

You then say you have to use NVDA-down to actually read that message.

Maybe it's just because of the different wording you've used, but what's the
difference between JAWS, which "goes on to the next message", and NVDA, which
"deletes the message you just read and then opens the next one"?

To me these things sound the same.


Antony.

On Monday 04 September 2017 at 15:39:23, Casey wrote:

Hi when I am using Jaws and the latest version of outlook.

I can open A message and then read it and hit control delete and I will go
on to the next message.

Now if I use NVDA I can do this it will delete the message that I just
read.

But then it will open the next on and I will have to use the NVDA key and
down arrow to read the next message.

Can you get an add on that will fix that or is that just the way things
work with that screen reader?
--
Most people have more than the average number of legs.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


getting messages to automatically read in outlook when using NVDA

Casey <cwollner@...>
 

Hi when I am using Jaws and the latest version of outlook.

I can open A message and then read it and hit control delete and I will go on to the next message.

Now if I use NVDA I can do this it will delete the message that I just read.

But then it will open the next on and I will have to use the NVDA key and down arrow to read the next message.

Can you get an add on that will fix that or is that just the way things work with that screen reader?

 

 

 

 


Re: question about carriage returns vs line feeds in NVDA

Mohamed
 

Interestingly, NVDA seems to report them differently depending on how you come across the character. For example, if you enter a new line and erase it in Notepad, it gets reported as "Line feed", but arrowing to it results in "Carriage return". Is it possible that Windows may be reporting it differently depending on the case?

On 9/4/2017 8:24 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
Yes, there is a difference between the two, and it matters when sending files
between different types of computers.

Windows uses simply Carriage Return (hex code 0d) to indicate end of line.

Macintosh computers used to use just Line Feed (hex code 0a); I don't know
whether this changed when they migrated from MacOS to OSX.

Linux and Unix computers use both together, so the hex code is 0d 0a, to
indicate end of line.

The reason for the two codes is historical - teletypes and printers used one
code to mean "return the print head to the start of the line" (that's Carriage
Return), and the other to mean "move the paper up one line" (that's line
feed).

This made it possible to print a line, return to the start without moving the
paper, and then print again over the top of the first line, used for creating
bold print, composite characters, etc.


Regards,


Antony.

On Monday 04 September 2017 at 12:56:22, Mohamed wrote:

Hi, I noticed that, depending on the text editor in use at the time,
NVDA will sometimes say either "carriage return" or "Line feed" to
indicate new lines. Since they seem to serve similar purposes, I wonder
if there is actually a difference between the two?
Thanks.


Re: question about carriage returns vs line feeds in NVDA

Aman Singer
 

Hi,

Yes, there is a difference between the two. In normal use, the difference is most obvious when sending text files between different operating systems, as between Windows and the Mac. This is far less of a problem than it was, but can still sometimes crop up. For a description of the difference which is quite clear, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline
HTH,
Aman

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mohamed
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2017 6:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] question about carriage returns vs line feeds in NVDA

Hi, I noticed that, depending on the text editor in use at the time, NVDA will sometimes say either "carriage return" or "Line feed" to indicate new lines. Since they seem to serve similar purposes, I wonder if there is actually a difference between the two?
Thanks.


Re: question about carriage returns vs line feeds in NVDA

Antony Stone
 

Yes, there is a difference between the two, and it matters when sending files
between different types of computers.

Windows uses simply Carriage Return (hex code 0d) to indicate end of line.

Macintosh computers used to use just Line Feed (hex code 0a); I don't know
whether this changed when they migrated from MacOS to OSX.

Linux and Unix computers use both together, so the hex code is 0d 0a, to
indicate end of line.

The reason for the two codes is historical - teletypes and printers used one
code to mean "return the print head to the start of the line" (that's Carriage
Return), and the other to mean "move the paper up one line" (that's line
feed).

This made it possible to print a line, return to the start without moving the
paper, and then print again over the top of the first line, used for creating
bold print, composite characters, etc.


Regards,


Antony.

On Monday 04 September 2017 at 12:56:22, Mohamed wrote:

Hi, I noticed that, depending on the text editor in use at the time,
NVDA will sometimes say either "carriage return" or "Line feed" to
indicate new lines. Since they seem to serve similar purposes, I wonder
if there is actually a difference between the two?
Thanks.
--
Under UK law, no VAT is charged on biscuits and cakes - they are "zero rated".
Chocolate covered biscuits, however, are classed as "luxury items" and are
subject to VAT. McVitie's classed its Jaffa Cakes as cakes, but in 1991 this
was challenged by Her Majesty's Customs and Excise in court.

The question which had to be answered was what criteria should be used to
class something as a cake or a biscuit. McVitie's defended the classification
of Jaffa Cakes as a cake by arguing that cakes go hard when stale, whereas
biscuits go soft. It was demonstrated that Jaffa Cakes become hard when stale
and McVitie's won the case.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Weather Plus 4.5 update available

Adriano Barbieri
 

Hi to every one,

Changes in this version 4.5:
* Added hotkey NVDA+shift+control+alt+w;
Open the Weather Plus settings dialog.
* Correct some English strings.
#Changes in the Weather Plus Settings window:
* Added 8 new check boxes;
It is now possible to further customize the output:
* wind direction.
* wind speed.
* Perceived temperature.
* Humidity value.
* Visibility value.
* Atmospheric pressure value.
* Indicates the atmospheric pressure in millimeters of mercury (mmHg).
* State of the barometric pressure.

Weather Plus normally can able to update itself, however, your installed
version can't do it because the download link on italian page for technical reasons
is changed.
you must download it from direct download:
http://www.nvda.it/files/plugin/weather_plus4.5.nvda-addon
or from page:
http://www.nvda.it/weather-plus/
Thanks

Cheers
Adriano


Re: Synths

mk360
 

Brian, the thing is Eloquence is one of the best synths on other languages like spanish. I use espeak-ng without problem, but espeak doesn't speak a good spanish, he is clearly not a native Spanish speaker, he is more of an English speaker who learned to speak in Spanish and for not to be Spanish his first language does it well, but not as a Spanish speaker. If you see who is requesting Eloquence, many us are speakers of other languages (well, I don't request eloquence or similar because I know it will not be available for free, and espeak is good for my needs).
However, this has been said on several occasions in the list already, also in other forums, and I personally think it is a sterile discussion on this point. I only explain it because I don't think it can be characterized as an addiction to wanting to hear your native language spoken correctly and not with letters like "r","d","t", with a strange accent.

Regards,
mk.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 6:10 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
None of the 'real' Eloquence libraries now available are free. As I think somebody said, Sappi 4 Via Voice is similar but not exactly Eloquence and can still work, but a lot of people are spending their money as as a well as the old Eloquence if you buy a package you get other voices more suited to reading docs and this can be set up as a user profile so you can hear more comfortable readings while still retaining the quick and dirty access in menus etc.

There are now so many people talking about Eloquence, I've hived all these messages off into another folder. I'm beginning to think that people might be addicted to Eloquence, Next we will have rehab clinics to wean folk off of it! :-)
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher-Mark Gilland" <clgilland07@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Synths


I've changed the subject to better reflect. Hope that was OK.

I don't think Vocalizer is free either. Sorry.
---
Christopher Gilland
----- Original Message -----  From: mr. Chikodinaka Nickarandidum Oguledo
 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
 Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 5:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [nvda] Help With Eloquence


 vocilelizer the nvda version or the all computer of vocolizer please
 or free free free voices not the ones u pay for I don't have the money






question about carriage returns vs line feeds in NVDA

Mohamed
 

Hi, I noticed that, depending on the text editor in use at the time, NVDA will sometimes say either "carriage return" or "Line feed" to indicate new lines. Since they seem to serve similar purposes, I wonder if there is actually a difference between the two?
Thanks.


Re: Synths

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

I need to mute the Eloquenc topic. I'd advuse you to do the same if you wish.

On 9/4/2017 5:10 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
None of the 'real' Eloquence libraries now available are free. As I think somebody said, Sappi 4 Via Voice is similar but not exactly Eloquence and can still work, but a lot of people are spending their money as as a well as the old Eloquence if you buy a package you get other voices more suited to reading docs and this can be set up as a user profile so you can hear more comfortable readings while still retaining the quick and dirty access in menus etc.

There are now so many people talking about Eloquence, I've hived all these messages off into another folder. I'm beginning to think that people might be addicted to Eloquence, Next we will have rehab clinics to wean folk off of it! :-)
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher-Mark Gilland" <clgilland07@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Synths


I've changed the subject to better reflect. Hope that was OK.

I don't think Vocalizer is free either. Sorry.
---
Christopher Gilland
----- Original Message -----  From: mr. Chikodinaka Nickarandidum Oguledo
 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
 Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 5:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [nvda] Help With Eloquence


 vocilelizer the nvda version or the all computer of vocolizer please
 or free free free voices not the ones u pay for I don't have the money



Re: Further Update Query

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

Type winver in the run dialog by pressing WIN key plus R. If you have build 1703 well you have the Creators Update.


On 9/4/2017 5:01 AM, Andrea Sherry wrote:

I believe that it is something like 1073.

Andrea


On 4/09/2017 6:48 PM, Chris wrote:

What is the current build of windows you are running?

 

 

From: Andrea Sherry
Sent: 04 September 2017 02:08
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Further Update Query

 

Well the other thing that it would appear I have not been offered online

is that Creative update. Should this still apply me if I am using

Windows 10 pro?

 

Andrea

 

--

Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start

from now and make a brand new ending." - Carl Brad

 

 

 


--
Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending." - Carl Brad


Re: NVDA and Windows older versions

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

Speaking of UWP apps Joseph needs to circulate his awesome post on making them accessible in WIN 10. We haven't made any progress in my opinion in the blindness coummity contacting MS. Facebook and FB Messenger being the 2 that once were.

On 9/4/2017 4:59 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I know I read it, but to be honest. its a concept issue. Some of use find the logic hard to actually get into our motor memory, whereas the old sort of menus worked as each was obviously the same from the logic point of view. but I'm not going to start a ribbon vs other ideas thread of annoyance here. Far more worrying are these badly named universal apps where it seems almost anything goes from no menu bars to some and with buttons dumped any old place for no good reason on the screen. Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Windows older versions


Regardless of all the doom and gloom you hear all over about ribbons, th3ey are nothing more than a different and perfectly logical way of organizing programs.  Here is a tutorial I wrote to provide instruction in learning ribbons.  it appears below my signature.

Gene

I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons.

I've added a little to it here.

I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10 but this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or any other ribbons, and see how things are organized.

First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button.
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example.
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus.

So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down. If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If you think about this, it makes sense.  If you are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.  So you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.  In a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right arrowing will move you to the next item in the tool bar.  So you down arrow when on the split button to cause it to display more options.  But some tool bars run up and down the screen, as menus do.  And at times, you may not be sure which way a structure extends on screen.  So, as I said, if you are not sure or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display more options.  Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow.
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.

Now, to ribbons themselves.

Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use. the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader. There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.

Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad. Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine. Wordpad provides a good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.

The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc.
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.

For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.

Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon.

In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it. Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.

Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.

Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item.
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.

Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab. You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.

Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once. Now, open the ribbons again with alt.
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button. Activating the button opens the menu. Start down arrowing. you will hear all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action. When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as.  Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.

Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu.
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken. You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon.
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly.
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items. You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through.
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back.

Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it.
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category.

Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.



Re: email and nvda

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

Mozilla Thunderbird is great. If you want less bells and whistles the built in Mail app in Windows 10 should work for you. What version of MS Office are you running? What screen reader do you use? Maybe Office needs to be uninstalled then reinstalled again.


On 9/3/2017 10:20 PM, slery wrote:

I am looking for a new email program (obviously needs to work with NVDA).

 

Must haves: work with gmail, work with multiple email accounts, open multiple folders at the same time

 

Thanks for any help. Outlook keeps crashing every time I try to open a second folder (or even just switch to a different folder within the same window).

Cindy



Re: Github

Patrick ZAJDA
 

Hi Brian,

It is a pull because the code is pulled from a fork.

Patrick

Le 04/09/2017 à 10:47, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io a écrit :
So why is it called a pull not a push?
Seems logical to me. :-)
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick ZAJDA via Groups.Io"
<patrick@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Github


Hi Gene,

Pull requests are code contribution from another Github repos.
You fork the NVDA git repos on your Github account, make your code
contribution then submit it by creating a pull request.

It facilitates code merging.

Patrick

Le 03/09/2017 à 15:28, Gene a écrit :
What are pull requests?

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<mailto:bglists@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, September 03, 2017 7:15 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Github

I asked this some time ago, and Jamie sent me some stuff. There is now a
new
issues link and also a search field, but I've never found the search
to be
very intuitive and I suspect this is why so many duplicate issues get
filed.

Quinton sent me this also.
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues -
there is a search edit on that page you can type your query in to see if
there's an existing issue (open or closed, though note it will only show
open issues at first by default) which deals with what you are looking
for.

To post a new issue, there should be a "new issue" button on most pages.
Activating that will take you here:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/new with the main components
being
a title edit and a "leave a comment" edit where you can describe your
issue
in detail.


However recently some guidelines are now in there for fields that prompt
you
to give useful information as well.

One thing that I do not like about it is that it does not send an
email to
you even if you are subscribed to its list, you only see others comments.
However when you reply via email, you really do need to edit off quoted
stuff as otherwise looking at the issue on line gets very confused. I
occasionally forget myself. Also, it won't send you back these emails
either.
I am not sure who came up with this rule but its bonkers if you use the
email list to know where you are, as to see your own comments you either
need to find it in your own sent folder or go to the website.
Anyway, I've had my say.
Problems? Well...
The biggest issue I had was creating the account in the first place and
getting past all the stuff that is just not relevant.


You can attach files, but thus far I've not made this work!
Brian

bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...>, putting
'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@... <mailto:gsasner@...>>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 12:34 PM
Subject: [nvda] Github


I just looked at the Github NVDA part of the site. I haven't signed
up yet
but it looks easy to do so and to create a pull request, which I
assume is
what is generally referred to on this list as a ticket. But many people
may
find the page confusing. Is there a way that some sort of short help
information can be inserted after the navigation links on the page,
instructing people what to do to create what are called tickets, perhaps
also how to search for tickets and how to create an account? If tickets
are
desired from the widest variety of users, this process should be somehow
explained and done so in a place that those wishing to create tickets
will
be likely to see the explanation.

Gene








Re: NVDA and Windows older versions

 

What really scares me is that ms lost the battle for action centre on antivirus notifications.

I agree you can bypass things however in an accessibility viewpoint laws asside now ms has lost its basically opened the door for people to put in their own notifications or inaccessible changes and all they need to prove is that it mucks up how things should work.

I know this may be a bit dumb especially with how we progressed but back in the day expensive that it was we had our software and equipment and the sighted had our's.

We progressed up and up till win10 and now I am not sure.

Look at symbian, look at win7 look at win xp 98 and lower, look at dos.

It used to be simple for us, and while I know going back really isn't an option with all the changes going on with tech and the sighted winning, a bit of me is screaming give up and go back to the way it used to be before you get something that will never work.

Its not rational I know that but as all these new things go on getting inaccessible and up and down and such that part is getting louder and louder.

I used to be ready for the future, now I am scared of it.

On 4/09/2017 8:59 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I know I read it, but to be honest. its a concept issue. Some of use find the logic hard to actually get into our motor memory, whereas the old sort of menus worked as each was obviously the same from the logic point of view. but I'm not going to start a ribbon vs other ideas thread of annoyance here. Far more worrying are these badly named universal apps where it seems almost anything goes from no menu bars to some and with buttons dumped any old place for no good reason on the screen. Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Windows older versions


Regardless of all the doom and gloom you hear all over about ribbons, th3ey are nothing more than a different and perfectly logical way of organizing programs.  Here is a tutorial I wrote to provide instruction in learning ribbons.  it appears below my signature.

Gene

I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons.

I've added a little to it here.

I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10 but this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or any other ribbons, and see how things are organized.

First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button.
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example.
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus.

So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down. If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If you think about this, it makes sense.  If you are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.  So you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.  In a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right arrowing will move you to the next item in the tool bar.  So you down arrow when on the split button to cause it to display more options.  But some tool bars run up and down the screen, as menus do.  And at times, you may not be sure which way a structure extends on screen.  So, as I said, if you are not sure or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display more options.  Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow.
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.

Now, to ribbons themselves.

Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use. the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader. There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.

Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad. Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine. Wordpad provides a good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.

The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc.
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.

For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.

Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon.

In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it. Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.

Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.

Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item.
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.

Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab. You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.

Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once. Now, open the ribbons again with alt.
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button. Activating the button opens the menu. Start down arrowing. you will hear all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action. When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as.  Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.

Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu.
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken. You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon.
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly.
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items. You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through.
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back.

Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it.
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category.

Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.




Re: NVDA and Windows older versions

 

Well things I'd really like to know is creating shortcuts to things, I would also like the copy paste dialog to behave as it did, the new menu and stuff to just work, etc, etc.

Over that I agree on the universal apps.

If you never need the ribbon then its ok.

The other thing is that I really like the battery to tell me how many hours I have not just percentage.

And some progress bars say percentage but not actual times.

On 4/09/2017 8:59 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I know I read it, but to be honest. its a concept issue. Some of use find the logic hard to actually get into our motor memory, whereas the old sort of menus worked as each was obviously the same from the logic point of view. but I'm not going to start a ribbon vs other ideas thread of annoyance here. Far more worrying are these badly named universal apps where it seems almost anything goes from no menu bars to some and with buttons dumped any old place for no good reason on the screen. Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Windows older versions


Regardless of all the doom and gloom you hear all over about ribbons, th3ey are nothing more than a different and perfectly logical way of organizing programs.  Here is a tutorial I wrote to provide instruction in learning ribbons.  it appears below my signature.

Gene

I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons.

I've added a little to it here.

I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10 but this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or any other ribbons, and see how things are organized.

First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button.
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example.
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus.

So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down. If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If you think about this, it makes sense.  If you are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.  So you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.  In a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right arrowing will move you to the next item in the tool bar.  So you down arrow when on the split button to cause it to display more options.  But some tool bars run up and down the screen, as menus do.  And at times, you may not be sure which way a structure extends on screen.  So, as I said, if you are not sure or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display more options.  Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow.
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.

Now, to ribbons themselves.

Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use. the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader. There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.

Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad. Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine. Wordpad provides a good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.

The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc.
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.

For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.

Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon.

In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it. Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.

Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.

Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item.
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.

Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab. You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.

Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once. Now, open the ribbons again with alt.
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button. Activating the button opens the menu. Start down arrowing. you will hear all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action. When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as.  Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.

Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu.
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken. You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon.
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly.
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items. You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through.
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back.

Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it.
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category.

Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.