1. nvda@nvda.groups.io
   Date   
locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Heaven Botma <ehlbotma@...>
 

To add to what Christo says. My first laptop had Windows Vista and
when I bought my netbook, I asked someone to load Windows XP and
Office 2003 on it so that I could navigate, since that was what we
were using in the college and school at the time. From there, I
progressed to Windows 7 32 Bit, resisting the change to Windows 7 64
Bit and upgraded to Office 2010. I skipped Windows 8, not feeling
comfortable with the change and went directly to Windows 10. I am
glad I upgraded to Windows 10 with the new laptop, because it works
better than both the other operating systems.

The moral of the story, somewhere along the line one has to change
whether you like it or not, because as the technology improves, the
older software phases out and becomes more difficult to get hold of,
so the quicker one changes one's preference of software, the less one
needs to struggle.

Regards

Heaven

On 4/19/16, Christopher Hallsworth <challsworth2@icloud.com> wrote:
WE 9 works, but it must be 9.2 or later.
On 18 Apr 2016, at 19:43, Pete <emac00@cogeco.ca> wrote:


Same thing for people wanting windows x p.
I am getting ready to install w10, have to check on if w e 9 works in
w10 or not. the f s people told me j16 works in w10 and sounds like people
are using w 10 with nvda.
Change is good but one should not be forced to loose freedom of choice.
On 4/18/2016 2:22 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting
to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird
or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life that
certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively cease to
exist when official support ends. No one is guaranteed, nor should they
expect, that anything that they're using will be available in
perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only existing
versions available are hacks based on who knows what code base and with
what vulnerabilities. Since e-mail clients constantly interact with the
internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things
will come, and go, in that arena as well. There is very likely going to
come a point where you, for any you, have to let go of something you're
used to because it is not being supported or carried forward. Getting
used to this, even though it's painful, is essential in the cyber world
unless you want to drive yourself crazy. I've seen a lot of people over
the years who have expended far more energy trying to hold on to
something than would have been expended to learn the new that's available
to them.

Brian
Re: FW: [nvda-addons] Quarterly addon releases have been posted..

Mallard
 

Hey theer,

I've never used the programme, but friends of mine use it all the time, so I take it that it's more than alive and kicking...

Ciao,

Ollie

Il 19/04/2016 06:20, Ron Canazzi ha scritto:
Hi Group,

It is referenced on the add on update page, so I am asking the
question. Is E-mule still working? I mean the actual program itself?
I tried it a few weeks ago after not having it installed for a year and
I couldn't connect to any servers.


On 4/18/2016 11:04 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,

Derek Riemer will succeed me as the one who’ll be making quarterly add-on release announcements starting this fall. Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda-addons-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:nvda-addons-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of derek riemer
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 8:02 PM
To: nvda-addons@freelists.org
Subject: [nvda-addons] Quarterly addon releases have been posted..



Hello community,
The following add-ons have new releases. If you have one of these add-ons installed, please update it to get the latest features and translations.
BitChe, Clip Contents Designer, Control Usage Assistant, Day of the Week, Dropbox, Emoticons, eMule, Golden Cursor, GoldWave, No beeps speech mode, Place Markers, Read Feeds, Resource Monitor, SysTray List, TeamViewer, Unicode Braille Input, VLC, Windows 10 App and Essentials
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

Isaac <bigikemusic@...>
 


there against change because they can't see it coming!

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 1:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

Hi

 

I use OutLook, Win 10 and office 2010, on my work computer. To me OutLook is perfect, but that is the program I learnt everything concerning email on.

 

I always say that making choices regarding computer programs is much like buying a car. The only question is “what do you prefer, like, or what works for you”.

 

Cheers

 

From: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 4:14 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

    I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the sake of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs won't work and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable will the new programs be.  I to did like windows xp with outlook express and when I was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was hesitent because I did not know what email program would work and be accessable.  I did of course upgrade and used windows live mail and when I began to have issues with it I went to thunderbird and I now have windows 10 and I still use thunderbird.  I think that the reason that we all like outlook express isthat it is just a simple email program with nobells and whistles like calendars or features that we don't need or can't use.  Outlook express will always be the best email program but we have adapted to other programs but that does not mean that we are happy with them we just adjust.  We all don't like change but we can and do adapt but we don't like it.  With new versions of windows there may be features that we don't need or want or we can't use but we use what we want to use or what we can use.  I know that every one has their screen reader of choice and they think that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is the issue of winamp it's no longer supported but I still have not been convinced that there is a better program so I will just keep using it.  We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced upon us this should be our choice.  Think of the Omish people they don't have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice and so is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are willing to take the risk thats their choice and not ours. 
Brian Sackrider  

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust.  I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I got this computer, but I have adjusted.  When a colleague told me how to find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start button, much frustration has been saved.  Now, I'm comtemplating doing the upgrade to Win 10.  I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into before doing it.

Pauline

On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what you're used to."  Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows.  The number of things that require manual intervention from the user in XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7 forward.  And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows the similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the differences, but the differences are where people are required to learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near it, really resonate with me.  My grandmother died in the 1990s and was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go through I am amazed.  I don't know if I could be as flexible as they were.  While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came before.  That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too.  I think my only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian

 

 
locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

Christo Vorster
 

Hi

 

I use OutLook, Win 10 and office 2010, on my work computer. To me OutLook is perfect, but that is the program I learnt everything concerning email on.

 

I always say that making choices regarding computer programs is much like buying a car. The only question is “what do you prefer, like, or what works for you”.

 

Cheers

 

From: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 4:14 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

    I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the sake of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs won't work and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable will the new programs be.  I to did like windows xp with outlook express and when I was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was hesitent because I did not know what email program would work and be accessable.  I did of course upgrade and used windows live mail and when I began to have issues with it I went to thunderbird and I now have windows 10 and I still use thunderbird.  I think that the reason that we all like outlook express isthat it is just a simple email program with nobells and whistles like calendars or features that we don't need or can't use.  Outlook express will always be the best email program but we have adapted to other programs but that does not mean that we are happy with them we just adjust.  We all don't like change but we can and do adapt but we don't like it.  With new versions of windows there may be features that we don't need or want or we can't use but we use what we want to use or what we can use.  I know that every one has their screen reader of choice and they think that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is the issue of winamp it's no longer supported but I still have not been convinced that there is a better program so I will just keep using it.  We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced upon us this should be our choice.  Think of the Omish people they don't have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice and so is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are willing to take the risk thats their choice and not ours. 
Brian Sackrider  

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust.  I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I got this computer, but I have adjusted.  When a colleague told me how to find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start button, much frustration has been saved.  Now, I'm comtemplating doing the upgrade to Win 10.  I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into before doing it.

Pauline

On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what you're used to."  Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows.  The number of things that require manual intervention from the user in XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7 forward.  And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows the similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the differences, but the differences are where people are required to learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near it, really resonate with me.  My grandmother died in the 1990s and was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go through I am amazed.  I don't know if I could be as flexible as they were.  While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came before.  That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too.  I think my only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian

 

 
locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

christopher hallsworth <challsworth2@...>
 

WE 9 works, but it must be 9.2 or later.

On 18 Apr 2016, at 19:43, Pete <emac00@cogeco.ca> wrote:


Same thing for people wanting windows x p.
I am getting ready to install w10, have to check on if w e 9 works in w10 or not. the f s people told me j16 works in w10 and sounds like people are using w 10 with nvda.
Change is good but one should not be forced to loose freedom of choice.
On 4/18/2016 2:22 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life that certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively cease to exist when official support ends. No one is guaranteed, nor should they expect, that anything that they're using will be available in perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only existing versions available are hacks based on who knows what code base and with what vulnerabilities. Since e-mail clients constantly interact with the internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things will come, and go, in that arena as well. There is very likely going to come a point where you, for any you, have to let go of something you're used to because it is not being supported or carried forward. Getting used to this, even though it's painful, is essential in the cyber world unless you want to drive yourself crazy. I've seen a lot of people over the years who have expended far more energy trying to hold on to something than would have been expended to learn the new that's available to them.

Brian
locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Christo Vorster
 

Hi

 

I agree that one must change, but is it necessary to change at all cost?

 

From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 4:26 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

 

It depends.  The point of the Model T analogy is, to expand on it, that driving such an antiquated car endangers others, not just you when you drive on a modern highway.  In an analogous way, using an old version of Windows leaves you, particularly if you are not a very knowledgeable user, more vulnerable to infection and that may pose a thread to the security of others,  It depends to an extent on how you use your computer.  If you use your old version of Windows, XP or lower, in certain restricted ways, it my be easy to stay safe.  If you use it for general use, you are more likely to become infected. 

 

If you are knowledgeable you may be able to use something as old as XP and be reasonably safe.  But most users don't have that level of knowledge.  Unless it is not possible for some reason, it would be a good idea for a lot of users to move to Windows 7 from XP.  I still use XP and I believe I am reasonably safe because of the precautions I take but I wouldn't use an XP machine for anything personal such as banking or for shopping where information such as a credit card is used.  I have a Windows 7 machine I would use for such purposes.  And over time, XP will become increasingly restricted in how it can be used or used well.  For example, even though HTML5 is supposed to be compatible with Firefox and, at least for now, Firefox is continuing to support XP, my experience is that HTML5 doesn't play audio properly in XP.  Flash is being phased out and, although it will still be around for years, it is increasingly being offered by sites and at times, is replacing Flash.  Add to that that HTML5 is usually far more accessible because accessibility is built into it and you have major benefits if you care about audio, to upgrade. 

 

In short, my position is that if people want to run old programs and old versions of Windows, I won't tell them not to but I will tell them that if they do, they should have sufficient knowledge to know how to do so safely. 

 

 

Gene 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 6:40 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

 

Hi Group,

I agree with this to a point, but let's be real.  The Model T analogy
doesn't hold water.  I do not encourage people to stick with DOS or
Windows 95 for sure, but I also don't think it is always advisable to go
out and get the alleged best of the best right away.  Moderation is
always the best policy.


On 4/18/2016 3:04 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
> Gene wrote, "Freedom of choice is fine up to a point but you are implying, in an analagous context, that people should be allowed to use Model T Fords to preserve freedom of choice.  Too much choice equals stifling choice for many others.  it is not reasonable nor practical to expect backward compatibility indefinitely."
>
> To which I cannot say, more loudly, "Amen brother!!"
>
> I really don't know why people think that the cyber world can, will, or should offer indefinite backward compatibility when none of the rest of the world ever has.  Whether it's because it's too cumbersome or difficult or because a given vendor just decides "time's up," the loss of stuff in the cyber world is a fact of life just like it is "in real life."
>
> The fact that it is easier, often by far, to cling to something in the cyber world long past its "expiration date" only complicates the problem.
>
> Brian
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Re:

Christo Vorster
 

Hi

 

My first experience with computers was back in 1986. A friend of mine had an Apple with SoftVert as speech programme. I still am of the opinion that SoftVert was way ahead of it’s time.

 

Then I moved into a new job at the Pioneer School for the Blind in Worcester, South Africa.

 

Just for interest sake. I was appointed as Piano Tuning teacher. What I wil remember for the rest of my life is that I got a desktop computer. A 186 (the rest of the letters and numbers I cannot remember), 20 MB hard drive and something like 4 MB of RAM. I can’t even remember the version of DOS I used, probably something like 3.1, or something. At that time I thought that 20 MB of hard drive space was so much that it would last me for the rest of my life. Those were the “good old days”. Now 2 TerraByte is pushing it for space.

 

Yes! We must live with change. Fortunately one can change, but we my still remember the starting days.

 

Cheers

 

From: David Moore [mailto:jesusloves1966@...]
Sent: Monday, 18 April 2016 9:32 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda]

 

Hi,

I used the dec talk hard ware synthisizer in the 80s with an IBM computer. Wow, that really brings back memories. Take care.

 

 

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:34 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda]

 

Thanks for those samples. I've never really been a fan of Decktalk, but I have heard quite a bit of it over the years, and you are right. This version does sound quite different than what's shipped with Window Eyes.

 

 

Thanks,

Ari

 

People who are interested may want to hear a recording I made when I was evaluating this version of Dectalk.  it speaks differently enough and has a bit of a different inflection pattern as well and those interested should hear the program when deciding.  You may be able to use it as a demo but this recording may allow you to decide what you think of this version.  The original DECTalk couldn't be replicated, I think because the code was lost at some time and this is a reconstruction.  The person selling the program isn't responsible for this.  She is making available what has been supplied.

 


The person selling this version is very friendly and it was a pleasure corresponding with her.

The link to download the samples is

The sample consists of the reading of a small part of Genesis at two different speeds.  Trying the synthesizer as you would use it may be preferable but this may give you a reasonable idea of whether you want to pursue the matter.

 

Gene

 

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 6:04 AM

Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

 

Well if people don't want the legal version of eloquence.
emailing enablerehab@... and asking for their dectalk synth may be
the better option.
They don't exactly sell it anymore because there is no interest however
they will sell it to you for basically what its worth.
Their licence with fonix means you need to pay but there is no fixed
price so pay what you want.
I put in 20 bucks for the thing but you could pay anything from 1-2
dollars up.
For those not liking eloquence this may be the better solution.
My only complaint is that some of  the voices  are a bit quiet volume wise.
However for about a couple mb you get every dectalk voice and language,
sadly no singing but even so.



On 18/04/2016 10:33 p.m., Joseph Lee wrote:
> Hi Chris,
> 1. CF version is legal.
> 2. Sometimes we do see illegal Eloquence pop up, and this version is the one we don't allow (legal versions are allowed).
> Hope this helps (and please have a long rest).
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher-Mark Gilland [mailto:clgilland07@...]
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 3:25 AM
> To: nvda@groups.io
> Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory
>
> This is the only Eloquence related post I'm going to send to this list, but it has 100% everything to do with what Joseph has just said.  I'm neither promoting nor asking about how to get this working with Eloquence, so know that up front.
>
> So, my question is, first, Joseph, you say that Code Factory released an addon.  I guess my question is, is that addon considered to be illegal?
> Second off, I'm a little bit confused.  Are you saying that Eloquence is allowed, or are you saying it isn't allowed at this time on list.  Further, if not allowed, please then be more specific.  Are you saying it's not allowed period, or are you saying it's allowed, but only if talking about the CF version.
>
> Sorry, your message was just a little bit vague.  I've had an extremely emotionally rough night, I won't go into it more than to say, I've been crying my eyes out all night, so therefore as you can imagine, I'm incredibly tired, so perhaps my mind is a bit oblivious right now to the meaning of your message.  If so, please forgive me.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
>
> clgilland07@...
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
> To: <nvda@groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 6:17 AM
> Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory
>
>
> Ladies and gentlemen,
>
> Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this list.
> This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence add-on.
> Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
> At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the discussions surrounding it.
> For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
> For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon 2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this community.
> These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain proposals in the past).
> In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a
> crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
> Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch. I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone who lives in poverty somewhere.
> NVDA is more than a screen reader now: it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement, opportunities and so on.
> Thank you.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@...]
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
> To: nvda@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory
>
> Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as
>> fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that
>> is not the case.
>> However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that
>> alternative, so I don't understand why the people speak about it.
>>
>> Regards,
>> mk.
>>
>>> El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
>>> Hello,
>>> I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some
>>> food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do,
>>> you give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase
>>> the Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will
>>> let you all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Greg Wocher
>>>
>>>> On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
>>>> My sentiments exactly.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Afrim
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
>>>> To: nvda@groups.io
>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
>>>> Factory
>>>>
>>>> I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am
>>>> not going to pay for a program  that does essentially the same
>>>> thing. The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
>>>> cheers.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@...>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA,
>>>>> such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I
>>>>> mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that
>>>>> Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and
>>>>> other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
>>>>> I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5
>>>>> implementation.
>>>>> Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do
>>>>> some searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar
>>>>> issues. I found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's
>>>>> archive, and saw a message stating that the choppiness would go
>>>>> away once the product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is
>>>>> indeed the case? If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to
>>>>> limit a trial version, but I might buy it after all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yours Sincerely,
>>>>> Kelly John Sapergia
>>>>> Show Host and Production Director
>>>>> The Global Voice Internet Radio
>>>>> http://www.theglobalvoice.info
>>>>>
>>>>> Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
>>>>> Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
>>>>> at: kjsapergia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
>
locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Lenron
 

I take the changes as they come and roll with them. Has made learning
things easier.

On 4/19/16, Christo Vorster <christo.vorster@pioneerschool.org.za> wrote:
You speak of investigating, or rather in a way, studying Windows 7. Here in
South Africa, I never even thought to investigate the newer operating
systems. It was a major jump when I first started with Windows, Windows 98.
Then XP came, boy did I resist that. Then Win 7, 8, now 10. I had to teach
myself all of them, as most of us do here around me.

Then we haven't touched the changes from WordPerfect 51 to where are today,
office 2013.

I agree. Why always resist everything.

Cheers

-----Original Message-----
From: Arlene [mailto:nedster66@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 4:46 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding
Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

I heard that xp was more stable! You were able to better work goldwave with
xp. I never did anything with it to notice how stable it really was. But it
was simple to use. 7 took getting used to. I listened to audio programs on
it before I got onto 7. I joined the 7 list before I left xp!

-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss [mailto:sm.everiss@gmail.com]
Sent: April-18-16 6:01 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding
Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

The old systems are much simpler.
Its harder to justify updating when my needs are met that is my problem.
Before I always had a need, now I don't.



On 19/04/2016 10:03 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Brian,

You bring up some very good points here. I was talking to a friend the
other day and he said he wishes he could go back to windows XP. I asked
him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with. He's a great
example of someone who wants to stay in the stone age so to speak. I tried
to suggest that he upgrades to windows 10 but he doesn't want to. Like the
old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him
drink.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:23 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding
Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting
to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird
or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life that
certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively cease to
exist when official support ends. No one is guaranteed, nor should they
expect, that anything that they're using will be available in perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only existing
versions available are hacks based on who knows what code base and with
what vulnerabilities. Since e-mail clients constantly interact with the
internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things will
come, and go, in that arena as well. There is very likely going to come a
point where you, for any you, have to let go of something you're used to
because it is not being supported or carried forward. Getting used to
this, even though it's painful, is essential in the cyber world unless you
want to drive yourself crazy. I've seen a lot of people over the years
who have expended far more energy trying to hold on to something than
would have been expended to learn the new that's available to them.

Brian






.








--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762
locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Christo Vorster
 

I agree with what was said. Even though I also long for what was, like MS DOS and WordPerfect 51, one has to change, to be able to continue doing what you get paid for.

 

One thing I don’t understandfail to comprehend, is why change something that works perfectly with something that keep on failing you.

 

But, such is life.

 

Good luck to all with all the future changes.

 

Just a last thought: thanks to everybody involved in producing such a fantastic package as NVDA. At least the changes in this case must be termed as “positive progression”

 

Cheers

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 2:06 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

 

Ron Canazzi wrote, "I agree with this to a point, but let's be real. The Model T analogy doesn't hold water. I do not encourage people to stick with DOS or Windows 95 for sure, but I also don't think it is always advisable to go out and get the alleged best of the best right away. Moderation is always the best policy."

Your central point is well taken, and I've made the same one.  That being said, Windows XP and Outlook Express are, at this point, direct analogs of the Model T and they seem to be the things that are most frequently clung to.

It's also not "preachy" to bring up issues that seem to be repeatedly glossed over as though they do not exist.  Informed consent is a part of moderation, too.

In the final analysis I'm with you:  I don't really care what decision any individual makes.  Different people can and do weigh different factors differently.  But open discussion of the factors at play, and as many of those that are available, is not a bad thing.

Brian
locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Christo Vorster
 

You speak of investigating, or rather in a way, studying Windows 7. Here in South Africa, I never even thought to investigate the newer operating systems. It was a major jump when I first started with Windows, Windows 98. Then XP came, boy did I resist that. Then Win 7, 8, now 10. I had to teach myself all of them, as most of us do here around me.

Then we haven't touched the changes from WordPerfect 51 to where are today, office 2013.

I agree. Why always resist everything.

Cheers

-----Original Message-----
From: Arlene [mailto:nedster66@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2016 4:46 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

I heard that xp was more stable! You were able to better work goldwave with xp. I never did anything with it to notice how stable it really was. But it was simple to use. 7 took getting used to. I listened to audio programs on it before I got onto 7. I joined the 7 list before I left xp!

-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss [mailto:sm.everiss@gmail.com]
Sent: April-18-16 6:01 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

The old systems are much simpler.
Its harder to justify updating when my needs are met that is my problem.
Before I always had a need, now I don't.



On 19/04/2016 10:03 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Brian,

You bring up some very good points here. I was talking to a friend the other day and he said he wishes he could go back to windows XP. I asked him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with. He's a great example of someone who wants to stay in the stone age so to speak. I tried to suggest that he upgrades to windows 10 but he doesn't want to. Like the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:23 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding
Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life that certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively cease to exist when official support ends. No one is guaranteed, nor should they expect, that anything that they're using will be available in perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only existing versions available are hacks based on who knows what code base and with what vulnerabilities. Since e-mail clients constantly interact with the internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things will come, and go, in that arena as well. There is very likely going to come a point where you, for any you, have to let go of something you're used to because it is not being supported or carried forward. Getting used to this, even though it's painful, is essential in the cyber world unless you want to drive yourself crazy. I've seen a lot of people over the years who have expended far more energy trying to hold on to something than would have been expended to learn the new that's available to them.

Brian






.
locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

Shaun Everiss
 

Well winamp aint dead as such its just takinng for ever to get released.

On 19/04/2016 2:14 p.m., n8mnx@att.net wrote:
I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the sake
of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs won't work
and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable will the new
programs be. I to did like windows xp with outlook express and when I
was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was hesitent because I did not
know what email program would work and be accessable. I did of course
upgrade and used windows live mail and when I began to have issues with
it I went to thunderbird and I now have windows 10 and I still use
thunderbird. I think that the reason that we all like outlook express
isthat it is just a simple email program with nobells and whistles like
calendars or features that we don't need or can't use. Outlook express
will always be the best email program but we have adapted to other
programs but that does not mean that we are happy with them we just
adjust. We all don't like change but we can and do adapt but we don't
like it. With new versions of windows there may be features that we
don't need or want or we can't use but we use what we want to use or
what we can use. I know that every one has their screen reader of
choice and they think that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is
the issue of winamp it's no longer supported but I still have not been
convinced that there is a better program so I will just keep using it.
We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced
upon us this should be our choice. Think of the Omish people they don't
have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice and so
is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are willing to
take the risk thats their choice and not ours.
Brian Sackrider

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:
Change is hard, but we must adjust. I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I got
this computer, but I have adjusted. When a colleague told me how to
find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start button,
much frustration has been saved. Now, I'm comtemplating doing the
upgrade to Win 10. I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was
getting into before doing it.

Pauline


On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted
on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it
was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than
Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what
you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the
annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows.
The number of things that require manual intervention from the user
in XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7
forward. And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions
of Windows the similarities to their predecessors is at least as
strong as the differences, but the differences are where people are
required to learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near
it, really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and
was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at
her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go
through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they
were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the
cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just
short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very
familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came
before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents
experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my
only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer
and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian
Re: FW: [nvda-addons] Quarterly addon releases have been posted..

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

It is referenced on the add on update page, so I am asking the
question. Is E-mule still working? I mean the actual program itself?
I tried it a few weeks ago after not having it installed for a year and
I couldn't connect to any servers.


On 4/18/2016 11:04 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,

Derek Riemer will succeed me as the one who’ll be making quarterly add-on release announcements starting this fall. Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda-addons-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:nvda-addons-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of derek riemer
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 8:02 PM
To: nvda-addons@freelists.org
Subject: [nvda-addons] Quarterly addon releases have been posted..



Hello community,
The following add-ons have new releases. If you have one of these add-ons installed, please update it to get the latest features and translations.
BitChe, Clip Contents Designer, Control Usage Assistant, Day of the Week, Dropbox, Emoticons, eMule, Golden Cursor, GoldWave, No beeps speech mode, Place Markers, Read Feeds, Resource Monitor, SysTray List, TeamViewer, Unicode Braille Input, VLC, Windows 10 App and Essentials
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Re: FW: [nvda-addons] Quarterly addon releases have been posted..

Joseph Lee
 

Hi,
Yes, they are mostly translation updates.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Andre Fisher [mailto:andrefisher729@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 8:32 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [nvda-addons] Quarterly addon releases have been posted..

What's new in these versions? Are these just translation updates?
Anything special?

On 4/18/16, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

Derek Riemer will succeed me as the one who’ll be making quarterly
add-on release announcements starting this fall. Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda-addons-bounce@freelists.org
[mailto:nvda-addons-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of derek riemer
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 8:02 PM
To: nvda-addons@freelists.org
Subject: [nvda-addons] Quarterly addon releases have been posted..



Hello community,
The following add-ons have new releases. If you have one of these
add-ons installed, please update it to get the latest features and translations.
BitChe, Clip Contents Designer, Control Usage Assistant, Day of the
Week, Dropbox, Emoticons, eMule, Golden Cursor, GoldWave, No beeps
speech mode, Place Markers, Read Feeds, Resource Monitor, SysTray
List, TeamViewer, Unicode Braille Input, VLC, Windows 10 App and
Essentials

--

_____


Derek Riemer


* Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
* Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
* Open source enthusiast.
* Member of Bridge Cu
* Avid skiier.

Websites:
Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>; Awesome little hand built
weather app!
<http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>;

email me at derek.riemer@colorado.edu
<mailto:derek.riemer@colorado.edu>
Phone: (303) 906-2194
Re: FW: [nvda-addons] Quarterly addon releases have been posted..

Andre Fisher
 

What's new in these versions? Are these just translation updates?
Anything special?

On 4/18/16, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

Derek Riemer will succeed me as the one who’ll be making quarterly add-on
release announcements starting this fall. Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda-addons-bounce@freelists.org
[mailto:nvda-addons-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of derek riemer
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 8:02 PM
To: nvda-addons@freelists.org
Subject: [nvda-addons] Quarterly addon releases have been posted..



Hello community,
The following add-ons have new releases. If you have one of these add-ons
installed, please update it to get the latest features and translations.
BitChe, Clip Contents Designer, Control Usage Assistant, Day of the Week,
Dropbox, Emoticons, eMule, Golden Cursor, GoldWave, No beeps speech mode,
Place Markers, Read Feeds, Resource Monitor, SysTray List, TeamViewer,
Unicode Braille Input, VLC, Windows 10 App and Essentials

--

_____


Derek Riemer


* Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
* Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
* Open source enthusiast.
* Member of Bridge Cu
* Avid skiier.

Websites:
Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.com>;
Awesome little hand built weather app!
<http://django.derekriemer.com/weather/>;

email me at derek.riemer@colorado.edu <mailto:derek.riemer@colorado.edu>
Phone: (303) 906-2194
FW: [nvda-addons] Quarterly addon releases have been posted..

Joseph Lee
 

Hi,

Derek Riemer will succeed me as the one who’ll be making quarterly add-on release announcements starting this fall. Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-addons-bounce@... [mailto:nvda-addons-bounce@...] On Behalf Of derek riemer
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 8:02 PM
To: nvda-addons@...
Subject: [nvda-addons] Quarterly addon releases have been posted..

 

Hello community,
The following add-ons have new releases. If you have one of these add-ons installed, please update it to get the latest features and translations.
BitChe, Clip Contents Designer, Control Usage Assistant, Day of the Week, Dropbox, Emoticons, eMule, Golden Cursor, GoldWave, No beeps speech mode, Place Markers, Read Feeds, Resource Monitor, SysTray List, TeamViewer, Unicode Braille Input, VLC, Windows 10 App and Essentials

--

Derek Riemer

  • Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
  • Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  • Open source enthusiast.
  • Member of Bridge Cu
  • Avid skiier.

Websites:
Honors portfolio
Awesome little hand built weather app!

email me at derek.riemer@...
Phone: (303) 906-2194

locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Patrick Le Baudour
 

I doubt it, windows 3.1 was monotask and 16-bits based.
It would be quite a stretch to make it work. And it sure wouldn't work with ms-dos and norton commander.
Damn, i'm getting nostalgic about those too now... but last time i used a 386, i still had sight and was only using it as a sandbox for toying with assembly language, and maybe playing lemmings or the incredible machine from time to time...
Still using it as a main device nowadays would be kind of like being an amish of computers.... :-)

As for the general discussion, it depends on what you do with your computer, but basically if you jump on every new version (especially major updates), you'll get all the bugs, but if you wait for too long, there are security risks, less support, and new programs are less likely to be compatible. Given the advancement of what computers can do, it may imply missing very useful stuff for us.


And some hardware problem can force you to buy a new computer that would force the adaptation...

-- Patrick

Le 19/04/2016 03:33, Rosemarie Chavarria a écrit :
I'm wondering the same thing.



-----Original Message-----
From: Hank Smith, and Seeing-eye dog Iona [mailto:hank.smith966@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 4:22 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

you mean it runs on windows 3.1?
oh my
how good does it run?

On 4/18/2016 4:11 PM, Carlos wrote:


Hello Again:

A description of my PC:




*Packard Bell Legend V

*386SX 16MHz Processor

*125 Megabyte Hard Disk

*EGA Video Card

*14 Inch Monitor

*Sound Blaster I Sound Card

*101 PS/2 Keyboard/Logitech Three Button Mouse w/Rubber Ball on Bottom


*Windows 3.11/MS DOS 6.22

*Norton Commander 5, Microsoft Office Professional

*NVDA 5.x





Long live the 90's!!!


*


On 4/18/2016 3:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:


Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows. The number of things that require manual intervention from the user in XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7 forward. And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows the similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the differences, but the differences are where people are required to learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near it, really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian


--
Carlos Gonzalez - Los Angeles, CA. - gmjc341961@gmail.com <mailto:gmjc341961@gmail.com>
locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Arlene
 

I heard that xp was more stable! You were able to better work goldwave with xp. I never did anything with it to notice how stable it really was. But it was simple to use. 7 took getting used to. I listened to audio programs on it before I got onto 7. I joined the 7 list before I left xp!

-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss [mailto:sm.everiss@gmail.com]
Sent: April-18-16 6:01 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

The old systems are much simpler.
Its harder to justify updating when my needs are met that is my problem.
Before I always had a need, now I don't.



On 19/04/2016 10:03 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Brian,

You bring up some very good points here. I was talking to a friend the other day and he said he wishes he could go back to windows XP. I asked him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with. He's a great example of someone who wants to stay in the stone age so to speak. I tried to suggest that he upgrades to windows 10 but he doesn't want to. Like the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:23 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life that certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively cease to exist when official support ends. No one is guaranteed, nor should they expect, that anything that they're using will be available in perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only existing versions available are hacks based on who knows what code base and with what vulnerabilities. Since e-mail clients constantly interact with the internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things will come, and go, in that arena as well. There is very likely going to come a point where you, for any you, have to let go of something you're used to because it is not being supported or carried forward. Getting used to this, even though it's painful, is essential in the cyber world unless you want to drive yourself crazy. I've seen a lot of people over the years who have expended far more energy trying to hold on to something than would have been expended to learn the new that's available to them.

Brian






.
Re: Brian's comments about WinXP, and I've changed the subject line.

Gene
 

I'm not sure if or to what extent it is more difficult to organize files in Windows 7.  I haven't used later versions but I would think the same general principle would apply.  If you find problems regarding the library feature, one way to avoid such problems is to organize files outside of this system.  Why not simply create your own folders?  Instead of using the Microsoft Documents folder, for example, why not create a documents folder on the c drive.  If you wanted, you could create a short cut on the desktop to the folder, thus accessing the folder in the same way as you may have done the Microsoft Folder. 
 
It may be that you would have to be careful when using something like System Restore that you wouldn't lose folders or certain files.  I don't know what the case is now, but in the old days, System Restore didn't monitor My Documents or any folders in it.  So I would not advocate creating your own folder structure unless you back things up properly or don't use System Restore in the first place.  But if libraries do cause problems, there is a simple way around that which requires you to know nothing about the library feature.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Brian's comments about WinXP, and I've changed the subject line.

Hi Brian,
I realize that some people hate change and that's where the discussion ends for them but there is at least one aspect of Windows XP that I preferred to what came after...
That is the file organization, and how straightforward it was to organize files in meaningful folders and access files saved in folders keeping a library neat and  manageable.
For me, the file organization and file accessibility in Win7 and later are usable but not preferable. JMHO.
(smile)
Thanks for all that you contribute here. It's appreciated.
-LM

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 4/18/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory
 To: nvda@groups.io
 Date: Monday, April 18, 2016, 6:27 PM
 
 Rosemarie Chavarria
 wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted on staying
 with WinXP, "I asked him
 why and his answer was that it was simpler to work
 with."And I can't count the times
 I've heard this, about way more than Windows, and
 thought, "No, it's not easier to work with -
 it's what you're used to."  Win XP was an OS I
 loved and Microsoft has the annoying habit of alternating
 "good" and "bad" versions of Windows.
  The number of things that require manual intervention from
 the user in XP is huge compared to later versions,
 particularly Windows 7 forward.  And, when it comes down to
 it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows the
 similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as
 the differences, but the differences are where people are
 required to learn something new.David Moore's comments
 regarding those who live to be 100, or near it, really
 resonate with me.  My grandmother died in the 1990s and was
 in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology
 was at her birth and the amount of change she and her age
 cohort had to go through I am amazed.  I don't know if
 I could be as flexible as they were.  While the pace of
 change has picked up, particularly in the cyber world, the
 majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just
 short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements
 on very familiar themes rather than complete divergences
 from what came before.  That was not true for my
 grandparents at all, and my parents experienced more
 revolutionary changes than I have, too.  I think my only
 two revolutions were the introduction of the personal
 computer and the ascendance of the
 internet.Brian
 
 
locked Re: This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Arlene
 

Boy! That's old!

-----Original Message-----
From: Rosemarie Chavarria [mailto:knitqueen2007@gmail.com]
Sent: April-18-16 6:33 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

I'm wondering the same thing.



-----Original Message-----
From: Hank Smith, and Seeing-eye dog Iona [mailto:hank.smith966@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 4:22 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

you mean it runs on windows 3.1?
oh my
how good does it run?

On 4/18/2016 4:11 PM, Carlos wrote:


Hello Again:

A description of my PC:




*Packard Bell Legend V

*386SX 16MHz Processor

*125 Megabyte Hard Disk

*EGA Video Card

*14 Inch Monitor

*Sound Blaster I Sound Card

*101 PS/2 Keyboard/Logitech Three Button Mouse w/Rubber Ball on Bottom


*Windows 3.11/MS DOS 6.22

*Norton Commander 5, Microsoft Office Professional

*NVDA 5.x





Long live the 90's!!!


*


On 4/18/2016 3:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:


Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what you're used to." Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows. The number of things that require manual intervention from the user in XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7 forward. And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows the similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the differences, but the differences are where people are required to learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near it, really resonate with me. My grandmother died in the 1990s and was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go through I am amazed. I don't know if I could be as flexible as they were. While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came before. That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too. I think my only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian


--
Carlos Gonzalez - Los Angeles, CA. - gmjc341961@gmail.com <mailto:gmjc341961@gmail.com>
locked Re: why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

Arlene
 

I had to change to win 7. My first xp box couldn’t barely handle jaws 11. When I got onto IE it lagged and would not get on. it took me 4 to 5 tries to get on. I was going to audio chat rooms. I could barely get into them with my first xp box lagging.  So I donated it to a sighted person for her schooling.  It died ten years later.  Then I ended up with my room mate’s xp box. Then I got this 7 box. Just after I got this box. The old computer my room mate had died. 

 

From: n8mnx@... [mailto:n8mnx@...]
Sent: April-18-16 7:14 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] why does seem that so many blind people are so against change?

 

    I think that maybe blind people are not against change for the sake of change but it's the fear that their old favorite programs won't work and how accessable will the new os be or how accessable will the new programs be.  I to did like windows xp with outlook express and when I was concitering upgrading to windows 7 I was hesitent because I did not know what email program would work and be accessable.  I did of course upgrade and used windows live mail and when I began to have issues with it I went to thunderbird and I now have windows 10 and I still use thunderbird.  I think that the reason that we all like outlook express isthat it is just a simple email program with nobells and whistles like calendars or features that we don't need or can't use.  Outlook express will always be the best email program but we have adapted to other programs but that does not mean that we are happy with them we just adjust.  We all don't like change but we can and do adapt but we don't like it.  With new versions of windows there may be features that we don't need or want or we can't use but we use what we want to use or what we can use.  I know that every one has their screen reader of choice and they think that theirs is the best I use nvdathen there is the issue of winamp it's no longer supported but I still have not been convinced that there is a better program so I will just keep using it.  We should upgrade if we need to but we chould not have change fordced upon us this should be our choice.  Think of the Omish people they don't have cars they still use horse and buggies that is their choice and so is somones choice if they still use windows xp if they are willing to take the risk thats their choice and not ours. 
Brian Sackrider  

On 4/18/2016 9:48 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Change is hard, but we must adjust.  I wasn't fond of Win 7 when I got this computer, but I have adjusted.  When a colleague told me how to find and put terms into the search bar by hitting the Start button, much frustration has been saved.  Now, I'm comtemplating doing the upgrade to Win 10.  I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into before doing it.

Pauline

On 4/18/2016 6:27 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rosemarie Chavarria wrote, in regard to a friend of hers who insisted on staying with WinXP, "I asked him why and his answer was that it was simpler to work with."

And I can't count the times I've heard this, about way more than Windows, and thought, "No, it's not easier to work with - it's what you're used to."  Win XP was an OS I loved and Microsoft has the annoying habit of alternating "good" and "bad" versions of Windows.  The number of things that require manual intervention from the user in XP is huge compared to later versions, particularly Windows 7 forward.  And, when it comes down to it, even in the "ugly" versions of Windows the similarities to their predecessors is at least as strong as the differences, but the differences are where people are required to learn something new.

David Moore's comments regarding those who live to be 100, or near it, really resonate with me.  My grandmother died in the 1990s and was in her 90s at the time. When I think about what technology was at her birth and the amount of change she and her age cohort had to go through I am amazed.  I don't know if I could be as flexible as they were.  While the pace of change has picked up, particularly in the cyber world, the majority of changes I've lived through (I'm just short of 54 years old) feel to me much more like refinements on very familiar themes rather than complete divergences from what came before.  That was not true for my grandparents at all, and my parents experienced more revolutionary changes than I have, too.  I think my only two revolutions were the introduction of the personal computer and the ascendance of the internet.

Brian

 

 
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