Date   

Re: Adding and deleting gestures is giving me a headache

Quentin Christensen
 

Deleting gestures.ini should also do it, but improving the process is certainly something to think about.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:46 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
Hardly the  most likely fix. I have fixed it now doing it with a portable version and swapping the files.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 4:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Adding and deleting gestures is giving me a headache


I had this when I used to use some software for keyboard changes, I just reinstalled windows.




On 1/10/2017 10:48 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I seem to have accidentally managed to make a gesture as tab. which means of cours that the only way to use tab is with shift tab as tab makes the add on operate instead of tabbing!
So can somebody walk me through how to undo this, and secondly how to do it properly so I do not accidentally use tab in the input field and end up in the same situation again. I thought I'd got it from the manual, but it seems not.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


.












--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Update issues on snapshots again

Quentin Christensen
 

I just installed 14463 on Windows 7, 64-bit, then ran that copy and upgraded to 14473 and it seems to be working fine for me.

How is yours after a reboot?

Quentin.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
Anyone running master having update issues today?

Windows 7 64 just did an update as flagged and it deleted the main files then fell over with  file in use errors leaving it completely brokeen, Luckily I do have a bckup portable but that won't install either. I seem to feel that something that told NVDA to stop using some old files seems to have failed.
I will need to reboot the computer and then do a clean install I suspect.
Info nobody running master as an installed copy is having this issue then one has to say its an anomaly here, but I cannot see why it would happen when the last few updates have gone fine.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Lots of for proffit companies made free or low cost screen readers.  Serotek for one.  Apple for another.  I'd say both companies were successful to one degree or another.  So, why didn't we see governments lining up to pay for system access?  Well, to a lesser extent some did, but if screen readers cost less, then the funding becomes less and the portfoleos of nondisabled people making big money from accessibility legislation shrink.  We certainly don't want that.  But even at that, system access and the system access network lasted for a very long time, largely on consumer driven support.

NVDA didn't succeed because it was not for proffit.  It succeded because of the dedication of the people who started it, and the following those founders were able to inspire.  It's sustainable because of the people who work on it.  The fact that it is non for proffit gives it certain advantages such as the fact that it can't be subsumed by a for proffit.  Lots of free windows screen readers entered and left the market in the past 10 years.  NVDA is the only one to thrive, much less survive, and it's because of the talendt, and the management.

Then again, the fact that NVDA itself is non for proffit hasn't prevented the organization from accepting grants and sponsorships from for proffit companies, and whatever I may think of those companies individually, the output from those grants contributed to the general effectiveness of NVDA, which lead to more adoption which lead to donation revinue, which lead to more improvements until we have the body of work which now is viable enough to stand up to a commercial product in the vast majority of situations.

So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.  I've heard all the arguments for nearly as long as you have.  I'll allow there was a time when they may have made sense to one degree or another.  Certainly the first opticon and kurzweil reading machine costed enormously more in terms of research and development than say the knfb reader mobile app.  In fact, vast commercial uses for scanning, ocr, text to speech, dictation, and other technologies developed for disability communities are prevailant and highly intergrated into modern society.  Accessibility legislation is between 25 and 50 years old.  Commercial standards for developing things to be accessible are well established and supported by legislation.  Time and talent still cost money, but we stand on the shoulders of giants.  It's not what it was in the late 70's and early 80's.  Completely different situation.

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 5:25:39 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

That is not correct and I've seen that argument many times.  JAWS is expensive because it is a specialized product with a tiny market.  If Windows had the number of users JAWS has, it would be  exorbitantly expensive as well.  It's mass production with enormous customer bases that makes most manufactured products we use inexpensive.  You can argue about whether institutions could cause the price of JAWS to be lower by negotiating, I don't know if the owners of JAWS charge more than they need to to make a product.  But anyone on this list who purchases or has purchased a sophisticated computer program that sells to a very small audience will confirm that such products are very expensive.  Institutions may be bureaucratic but they aren't fools.  Entrepreneurs are creative and inventive.  If it were possible to have a screen-reader with the power and sophistication of JAWS for significantly less, someone would have entered the market at a cheaper price.  They've had more than two decades to do so in the case of Windows screen-readers.  Where are they, or even one?
 
The only way a powerful screen-reader has been developed that is within the reach of a lot of blind people is to completely work outside of the for profit model.  NVDA is free because it is not a for profit product and relies on people working for about minimum wage, grants, and volunteers to develop and create add ons.  Which proves my point.  Someone else did fill the need for a screen-reader for people who can't afford a for profit screen--reader but it was outside of the for profit model.  Entrepreneurs are creative and motivated enough that, as I said, if a for profit screen-reader could be developed  for a significantly cheaper price, it would have been long ago.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Accessibility laws change the game.  The market for jaws is different from the market of most other products.  The primary target market doesn't actually use the product.  The reason commercial screen readers are sustainable is that governments in developed countrys have legislated that the government must accept the financial cost of communication aids for people with print disabilities as a means of leveling the playing field.  That is why the cost of the tecchnologies has always been out of reach for most blind consumers, and very little to do with the development cost and comparitive small size of the market as most commercial access technologists claim. 

So, there's no evidence to suggest that vfo or any company is planning to jack up prices even higher than they already are, but there are legislative hooks that might allow them to if they wanted.

I really think though that they are battoning down and preparing to ride out the end times with what they have.  The consolidation has pretty much taken place.  A few straglers haven't bought in or bowed out, but they have unique markets of their own.

The government funding that constitutes the primary support for products like jaws is on the severe decline as the use cases for the products over cheeper less specialized alternatives growes less and less by the day.  If the size of the market dictated the price as they always claimed, then considering the dwindling share of the market controlled by commercial AT, it makes sense that the price would go up, especially in the case of VFO's new exclusivity agreements in geographic regions that were either not controlled or controlled by companies that are no more.  The odd thing is, with NVDA distributed free as a noncommercial product, I doubt it falls under the commercial exclusivity agreements anyhow. 

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 4:24:22 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

Why would the owners of JAWS commit suicide or strongly encourage purchasers not to use their product by doing something ridiculous, as you suggest?  They won't.  I don't know if they will try different prices as time goes on to get the most profit from the most or optimum number of sales, but that is different from behaving irrationally.  Is this part of the JAWS is greedy and can charge anything it wants argument?  It doesn't matter in the context of this argument, that I've heard for two decades with no meaningful proof given, whether JAWS is greedy or not.  What matters is that JAWS doesn't exist in a vacuum.  It may charge what the market will bear but it still operates in a market.  If institutions are willing to pay a price, JAWS may decide to charge it.  But that doesn't mean that institutions are irrational.  They aren't going to accept a thousand percent price rise of a product just because JAWS owners decide to try to charge it. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions that deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and here in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS always saw its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the price of JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force educational institutions to go with NVDA.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

The sample size is very small in these surveys,  but they definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised at all to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws useage down.  Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the product is discontinued.  This will help slow the skid of jaws, but I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to NVDA as to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for Many window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that blind users want it more and more.  I have thought for years that 2021 is about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs, particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of tradition going by the board by then.  This is all good for us, and it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or android and or voiceover.

 

Take care



On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

 

hi Bhavya

 

I have been following the surveys after they  survey  has finished.

 

I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users and magnifiers etc.

 

Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of android and apple devices that can go portable.

 

For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if mobile a android device.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,
Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web
accessibility
consultancy organisation, has been conducting an
annual (sometimes
biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts
to gather
statistics
about the usage share of different screen
readers,
technology
(particularly Internet) accessibility trends, etc. so as
to
aid analysts,
researchers, accessibility consultants,
sighted
developers,
and mainstream companies to get a quantified picture
of
the state of the
AT industry.
While
this survey features participation from varied
geographies,
NVDA’s
user base, at least in my personal view, has always
been
understated.
While 8% respondents of the first December 2008
WebAim
survey
reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only increased
to
14% of
respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use NVDA
as
their primary
screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a usage
share
substantially
lower than NVDA’s commercial and more expensive
screen
reading
alternatives.
I
think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in
getting
the word out
about NVDA’s viability and competency  if all
NVDA
community
members, users, testers and other related
parties,
particularly from second and third world developing
regions which
often
remain silent for such surveys but where free and open
source
NVDA makes a
prominent impact, take this survey and contribute
to
letting the world
know about the size and standing of the NVDA
user
base.
The URL of said survey is  https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/
.
It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and
the form was
extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but
filling such
surveys
always brings out useful and reflective data, which, in
turn,
betters AT as
a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take some
time
out for this
survey so that we can make the data truly reflective
of
the
actualities.
Thanks.
P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my
intention to merely
promote this survey.
 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 


Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Gene
 

That is not correct and I've seen that argument many times.  JAWS is expensive because it is a specialized product with a tiny market.  If Windows had the number of users JAWS has, it would be  exorbitantly expensive as well.  It's mass production with enormous customer bases that makes most manufactured products we use inexpensive.  You can argue about whether institutions could cause the price of JAWS to be lower by negotiating, I don't know if the owners of JAWS charge more than they need to to make a product.  But anyone on this list who purchases or has purchased a sophisticated computer program that sells to a very small audience will confirm that such products are very expensive.  Institutions may be bureaucratic but they aren't fools.  Entrepreneurs are creative and inventive.  If it were possible to have a screen-reader with the power and sophistication of JAWS for significantly less, someone would have entered the market at a cheaper price.  They've had more than two decades to do so in the case of Windows screen-readers.  Where are they, or even one?
 
The only way a powerful screen-reader has been developed that is within the reach of a lot of blind people is to completely work outside of the for profit model.  NVDA is free because it is not a for profit product and relies on people working for about minimum wage, grants, and volunteers to develop and create add ons.  Which proves my point.  Someone else did fill the need for a screen-reader for people who can't afford a for profit screen--reader but it was outside of the for profit model.  Entrepreneurs are creative and motivated enough that, as I said, if a for profit screen-reader could be developed  for a significantly cheaper price, it would have been long ago.
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Accessibility laws change the game.  The market for jaws is different from the market of most other products.  The primary target market doesn't actually use the product.  The reason commercial screen readers are sustainable is that governments in developed countrys have legislated that the government must accept the financial cost of communication aids for people with print disabilities as a means of leveling the playing field.  That is why the cost of the tecchnologies has always been out of reach for most blind consumers, and very little to do with the development cost and comparitive small size of the market as most commercial access technologists claim. 

So, there's no evidence to suggest that vfo or any company is planning to jack up prices even higher than they already are, but there are legislative hooks that might allow them to if they wanted.

I really think though that they are battoning down and preparing to ride out the end times with what they have.  The consolidation has pretty much taken place.  A few straglers haven't bought in or bowed out, but they have unique markets of their own.

The government funding that constitutes the primary support for products like jaws is on the severe decline as the use cases for the products over cheeper less specialized alternatives growes less and less by the day.  If the size of the market dictated the price as they always claimed, then considering the dwindling share of the market controlled by commercial AT, it makes sense that the price would go up, especially in the case of VFO's new exclusivity agreements in geographic regions that were either not controlled or controlled by companies that are no more.  The odd thing is, with NVDA distributed free as a noncommercial product, I doubt it falls under the commercial exclusivity agreements anyhow. 

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 4:24:22 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

Why would the owners of JAWS commit suicide or strongly encourage purchasers not to use their product by doing something ridiculous, as you suggest?  They won't.  I don't know if they will try different prices as time goes on to get the most profit from the most or optimum number of sales, but that is different from behaving irrationally.  Is this part of the JAWS is greedy and can charge anything it wants argument?  It doesn't matter in the context of this argument, that I've heard for two decades with no meaningful proof given, whether JAWS is greedy or not.  What matters is that JAWS doesn't exist in a vacuum.  It may charge what the market will bear but it still operates in a market.  If institutions are willing to pay a price, JAWS may decide to charge it.  But that doesn't mean that institutions are irrational.  They aren't going to accept a thousand percent price rise of a product just because JAWS owners decide to try to charge it. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions that deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and here in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS always saw its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the price of JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force educational institutions to go with NVDA.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

The sample size is very small in these surveys,  but they definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised at all to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws useage down.  Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the product is discontinued.  This will help slow the skid of jaws, but I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to NVDA as to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for Many window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that blind users want it more and more.  I have thought for years that 2021 is about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs, particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of tradition going by the board by then.  This is all good for us, and it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or android and or voiceover.

 

Take care



On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

 

hi Bhavya

 

I have been following the surveys after they  survey  has finished.

 

I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users and magnifiers etc.

 

Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of android and apple devices that can go portable.

 

For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if mobile a android device.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,
Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web
accessibility
consultancy organisation, has been conducting an
annual (sometimes
biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts
to gather
statistics
about the usage share of different screen
readers,
technology
(particularly Internet) accessibility trends, etc. so as
to
aid analysts,
researchers, accessibility consultants,
sighted
developers,
and mainstream companies to get a quantified picture
of
the state of the
AT industry.
While
this survey features participation from varied
geographies,
NVDA’s
user base, at least in my personal view, has always
been
understated.
While 8% respondents of the first December 2008
WebAim
survey
reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only increased
to
14% of
respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use NVDA
as
their primary
screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a usage
share
substantially
lower than NVDA’s commercial and more expensive
screen
reading
alternatives.
I
think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in
getting
the word out
about NVDA’s viability and competency  if all
NVDA
community
members, users, testers and other related
parties,
particularly from second and third world developing
regions which
often
remain silent for such surveys but where free and open
source
NVDA makes a
prominent impact, take this survey and contribute
to
letting the world
know about the size and standing of the NVDA
user
base.
The URL of said survey is  https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/
.
It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and
the form was
extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but
filling such
surveys
always brings out useful and reflective data, which, in
turn,
betters AT as
a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take some
time
out for this
survey so that we can make the data truly reflective
of
the
actualities.
Thanks.
P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my
intention to merely
promote this survey.
 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 


Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Accessibility laws change the game.  The market for jaws is different from the market of most other products.  The primary target market doesn't actually use the product.  The reason commercial screen readers are sustainable is that governments in developed countrys have legislated that the government must accept the financial cost of communication aids for people with print disabilities as a means of leveling the playing field.  That is why the cost of the tecchnologies has always been out of reach for most blind consumers, and very little to do with the development cost and comparitive small size of the market as most commercial access technologists claim. 

So, there's no evidence to suggest that vfo or any company is planning to jack up prices even higher than they already are, but there are legislative hooks that might allow them to if they wanted.

I really think though that they are battoning down and preparing to ride out the end times with what they have.  The consolidation has pretty much taken place.  A few straglers haven't bought in or bowed out, but they have unique markets of their own.

The government funding that constitutes the primary support for products like jaws is on the severe decline as the use cases for the products over cheeper less specialized alternatives growes less and less by the day.  If the size of the market dictated the price as they always claimed, then considering the dwindling share of the market controlled by commercial AT, it makes sense that the price would go up, especially in the case of VFO's new exclusivity agreements in geographic regions that were either not controlled or controlled by companies that are no more.  The odd thing is, with NVDA distributed free as a noncommercial product, I doubt it falls under the commercial exclusivity agreements anyhow. 

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 4:24:22 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

Why would the owners of JAWS commit suicide or strongly encourage purchasers not to use their product by doing something ridiculous, as you suggest?  They won't.  I don't know if they will try different prices as time goes on to get the most profit from the most or optimum number of sales, but that is different from behaving irrationally.  Is this part of the JAWS is greedy and can charge anything it wants argument?  It doesn't matter in the context of this argument, that I've heard for two decades with no meaningful proof given, whether JAWS is greedy or not.  What matters is that JAWS doesn't exist in a vacuum.  It may charge what the market will bear but it still operates in a market.  If institutions are willing to pay a price, JAWS may decide to charge it.  But that doesn't mean that institutions are irrational.  They aren't going to accept a thousand percent price rise of a product just because JAWS owners decide to try to charge it. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions that deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and here in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS always saw its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the price of JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force educational institutions to go with NVDA.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

The sample size is very small in these surveys,  but they definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised at all to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws useage down.  Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the product is discontinued.  This will help slow the skid of jaws, but I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to NVDA as to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for Many window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that blind users want it more and more.  I have thought for years that 2021 is about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs, particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of tradition going by the board by then.  This is all good for us, and it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or android and or voiceover.

 

Take care



On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

 

hi Bhavya

 

I have been following the surveys after they  survey  has finished.

 

I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users and magnifiers etc.

 

Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of android and apple devices that can go portable.

 

For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if mobile a android device.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,
Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web
accessibility
consultancy organisation, has been conducting an
annual (sometimes
biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts
to gather
statistics
about the usage share of different screen
readers,
technology
(particularly Internet) accessibility trends, etc. so as
to
aid analysts,
researchers, accessibility consultants,
sighted
developers,
and mainstream companies to get a quantified picture
of
the state of the
AT industry.
While
this survey features participation from varied
geographies,
NVDA’s
user base, at least in my personal view, has always
been
understated.
While 8% respondents of the first December 2008
WebAim
survey
reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only increased
to
14% of
respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use NVDA
as
their primary
screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a usage
share
substantially
lower than NVDA’s commercial and more expensive
screen
reading
alternatives.
I
think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in
getting
the word out
about NVDA’s viability and competency  if all
NVDA
community
members, users, testers and other related
parties,
particularly from second and third world developing
regions which
often
remain silent for such surveys but where free and open
source
NVDA makes a
prominent impact, take this survey and contribute
to
letting the world
know about the size and standing of the NVDA
user
base.
The URL of said survey is  https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/
.
It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and
the form was
extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but
filling such
surveys
always brings out useful and reflective data, which, in
turn,
betters AT as
a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take some
time
out for this
survey so that we can make the data truly reflective
of
the
actualities.
Thanks.
P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my
intention to merely
promote this survey.
 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 


Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Gene
 

Why would the owners of JAWS commit suicide or strongly encourage purchasers not to use their product by doing something ridiculous, as you suggest?  They won't.  I don't know if they will try different prices as time goes on to get the most profit from the most or optimum number of sales, but that is different from behaving irrationally.  Is this part of the JAWS is greedy and can charge anything it wants argument?  It doesn't matter in the context of this argument, that I've heard for two decades with no meaningful proof given, whether JAWS is greedy or not.  What matters is that JAWS doesn't exist in a vacuum.  It may charge what the market will bear but it still operates in a market.  If institutions are willing to pay a price, JAWS may decide to charge it.  But that doesn't mean that institutions are irrational.  They aren't going to accept a thousand percent price rise of a product just because JAWS owners decide to try to charge it. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions that deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and here in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS always saw its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the price of JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force educational institutions to go with NVDA.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

The sample size is very small in these surveys,  but they definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised at all to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws useage down.  Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the product is discontinued.  This will help slow the skid of jaws, but I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to NVDA as to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for Many window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that blind users want it more and more.  I have thought for years that 2021 is about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs, particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of tradition going by the board by then.  This is all good for us, and it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or android and or voiceover.

 

Take care



On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

 

hi Bhavya

 

I have been following the surveys after they  survey  has finished.

 

I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users and magnifiers etc.

 

Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of android and apple devices that can go portable.

 

For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if mobile a android device.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,
Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web accessibility
consultancy organisation, has been conducting an annual (sometimes
biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts to gather
statistics about the usage share of different screen readers,
technology (particularly Internet) accessibility trends, etc. so as to
aid analysts, researchers, accessibility consultants, sighted
developers, and mainstream companies to get a quantified picture of
the state of the AT industry.
While this survey features participation from varied geographies,
NVDA’s user base, at least in my personal view, has always been
understated. While 8% respondents of the first December 2008 WebAim
survey reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only increased to
14% of respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use NVDA as
their primary screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a usage share
substantially lower than NVDA’s commercial and more expensive screen
reading alternatives.
I think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in getting
the word out about NVDA’s viability and competency  if all NVDA
community members, users, testers and other related parties,
particularly from second and third world developing regions which
often remain silent for such surveys but where free and open source
NVDA makes a prominent impact, take this survey and contribute to
letting the world know about the size and standing of the NVDA user
base.
The URL of said survey is  https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/
.
It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and the form was
extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but filling such
surveys always brings out useful and reflective data, which, in turn,
betters AT as a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take some time
out for this survey so that we can make the data truly reflective of
the actualities.
Thanks.
P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my intention to merely
promote this survey.
 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 


Re: bug in browsemode

Gene
 

Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.  How does n know what you want?  You often intentionally want to use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want to hear the block you have used the command to skip to.  You can make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading.  But having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea.  N does one thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.  Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin






Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Hi Sky,

I don't see the price of jaws going up.  It's an interesting theory, but all the evidence suggests VFO is consolidating, hammering away on their commercial exclusivities, and battoning down to milk the next four years or so for as much money as there is in the pot.  Then they will bow out.  With the looming end of the desktop pc, the rise of nvda, voiceover, and mobile, and the gradual demise of special funding for government and education special access, there won't be a market share for jaws in any form soon.

Just to keep this on topic, I'm using nvda in my college courses and it's handling sequal server like a boss.  I still prefer mobile to do my html and java script courses as well as my math, but I need windows debuggers.  I'm totally good with how NVDA is handling windows 10, microsoft edge, and win 10 mail.  The college has a five point floating site licence for Jaws because another student asked for jaws support, but I believe my technologist is working to get NVDA into the working disk images for the labs and library systems, as well as setting up some sort of corporate donation program for NVDA.  The death of the desktop will kill jaws, and may take NVDA with it, but til then, I'm so happy with NVDA, and I think the college is too.

On October 2, 2017 4:01:24 PM "Sky Mundell" <skyt@...> wrote:

I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions that deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and here in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS always saw its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the price of JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force educational institutions to go with NVDA.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

The sample size is very small in these surveys,  but they definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised at all to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws useage down.  Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the product is discontinued.  This will help slow the skid of jaws, but I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to NVDA as to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for Many window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that blind users want it more and more.  I have thought for years that 2021 is about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs, particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of tradition going by the board by then.  This is all good for us, and it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or android and or voiceover.

 

Take care



On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

 

hi Bhavya

 

I have been following the surveys after they  survey  has finished.

 

I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users and magnifiers etc.

 

Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of android and apple devices that can go portable.

 

For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if mobile a android device.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,
Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web
accessibility
consultancy organisation, has been conducting an annual
(sometimes
biennial)
survey, which, as its name implies, attempts to
gather
statistics
about the usage share of different screen
readers,
technology
(particularly Internet) accessibility trends, etc. so as
to
aid analysts,
researchers, accessibility consultants,
sighted
developers,
and mainstream companies to get a quantified picture
of
the state of the
AT industry.
While
this survey features participation from varied
geographies,
NVDA’s
user base, at least in my personal view, has always
been
understated.
While 8% respondents of the first December 2008
WebAim
survey
reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only increased
to
14% of respondents
in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use NVDA
as
their primary
screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a usage
share
substantially
lower than NVDA’s commercial and more expensive
screen
reading
alternatives.
I think
it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in
getting
the word out
about NVDA’s viability and competency  if all
NVDA
community
members, users, testers and other related
parties,
particularly
from second and third world developing regions
which
often remain
silent for such surveys but where free and open
source
NVDA makes a
prominent impact, take this survey and contribute
to
letting the world
know about the size and standing of the NVDA
user
base.
The URL of said survey is  https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/
.
It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and
the form was
extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but
filling such
surveys
always brings out useful and reflective data, which, in
turn,
betters AT as a
whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take some
time
out for this
survey so that we can make the data truly reflective
of
the
actualities.
Thanks.
P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my
intention to merely
promote this survey.
 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 


Re: bug in browsemode

Gene
 

Your discusssion of the second behavior should be clarified.  You evidently want NVDA to continue reading if you use n while speak aall is active so reading will continue without having to execute any other commands.  This should certainly not happen if speak all hasn't been started before the n command is issued. 
 
I don't have an opinion about whether the change you want should be made, but I doubt this is a bug.  It appears to me that the current behavior is a behavior which is intentional that you want changed.
 
Gene

Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin






Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Sky Mundell
 

I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions that deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and here in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS always saw its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the price of JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force educational institutions to go with NVDA.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

The sample size is very small in these surveys,  but they definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised at all to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws useage down.  Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the product is discontinued.  This will help slow the skid of jaws, but I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to NVDA as to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for Many window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that blind users want it more and more.  I have thought for years that 2021 is about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs, particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of tradition going by the board by then.  This is all good for us, and it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or android and or voiceover.

 

Take care



On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

 

hi Bhavya

 

I have been following the surveys after they  survey  has finished.

 

I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users and magnifiers etc.

 

Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of android and apple devices that can go portable.

 

For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if mobile a android device.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,
Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web accessibility
consultancy organisation, has been conducting an annual (sometimes
biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts to gather
statistics about the usage share of different screen readers,
technology (particularly Internet) accessibility trends, etc. so as to
aid analysts, researchers, accessibility consultants, sighted
developers, and mainstream companies to get a quantified picture of
the state of the AT industry.
While this survey features participation from varied geographies,
NVDA’s user base, at least in my personal view, has always been
understated. While 8% respondents of the first December 2008 WebAim
survey reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only increased to
14% of respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use NVDA as
their primary screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a usage share
substantially lower than NVDA’s commercial and more expensive screen
reading alternatives.
I think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in getting
the word out about NVDA’s viability and competency  if all NVDA
community members, users, testers and other related parties,
particularly from second and third world developing regions which
often remain silent for such surveys but where free and open source
NVDA makes a prominent impact, take this survey and contribute to
letting the world know about the size and standing of the NVDA user
base.
The URL of said survey is  https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/
.
It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and the form was
extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but filling such
surveys always brings out useful and reflective data, which, in turn,
betters AT as a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take some time
out for this survey so that we can make the data truly reflective of
the actualities.
Thanks.
P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my intention to merely
promote this survey.
 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 


Weather Plus Latest Add On doesn't read weather information With Insert + W Key Press On 64 Bit Windows 7 System

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,


I updated the Weather Plus add on for my Windows 7 64 bit machine (my newer system bit the dust and is being repaired) and the insert + W keystroke renders no speech.  I can access the add on with the various keystrokes to make changes, but nothing is spoken.  All my settings from the previous installation are present, but no speech occurs.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


bug in browsemode

Martin Thomas Swaton
 

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a website does not work correctly when there are special characters in a text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to the next "normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text because of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is read on this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of text and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line of a textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts to read on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin


Prevent system sleep/standby while NVDA is reading something

 

Hello all,

A friend of mine noticed that if he reads a long article via "say all" and his system is set to go to "sleep", the system will go to "sleep", even if NVDA hasn't finished reading at that time. Shouldn't NVDA (at least optionally) prevent system standby/sleep function while it is reading something? I thought that there was a ticket in the NVDA issue tracker about this, but apparently there isn't, because my searches for "prevent sleep" and "prevent standby" did not return as a result such a ticket.

Any thoughts?

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev


Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

The sample size is very small in these surveys,  but they definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised at all to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws useage down.  Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the product is discontinued.  This will help slow the skid of jaws, but I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to NVDA as to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for Many window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that blind users want it more and more.  I have thought for years that 2021 is about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs, particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of tradition going by the board by then.  This is all good for us, and it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or android and or voiceover.

Take care

On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

hi Bhavya


I have been following the surveys after they  survey  has finished.


I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users and magnifiers etc.


Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of android and apple devices that can go portable.


For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if mobile a android device.


Gene nz



On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:
Dear all,
Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web accessibility
consultancy organisation, has been conducting an annual (sometimes
biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts to gather
statistics about the usage share of different screen readers,
technology (particularly Internet) accessibility trends, etc. so as to
aid analysts, researchers, accessibility consultants, sighted
developers, and mainstream companies to get a quantified picture of
the state of the AT industry.
While this survey features participation from varied geographies,
NVDA’s user base, at least in my personal view, has always been
understated. While 8% respondents of the first December 2008 WebAim
survey reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only increased to
14% of respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use NVDA as
their primary screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a usage share
substantially lower than NVDA’s commercial and more expensive screen
reading alternatives.
I think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in getting
the word out about NVDA’s viability and competency  if all NVDA
community members, users, testers and other related parties,
particularly from second and third world developing regions which
often remain silent for such surveys but where free and open source
NVDA makes a prominent impact, take this survey and contribute to
letting the world know about the size and standing of the NVDA user
base.
The URL of said survey is  https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/
.
It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and the form was
extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but filling such
surveys always brings out useful and reflective data, which, in turn,
betters AT as a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take some time
out for this survey so that we can make the data truly reflective of
the actualities.
Thanks.
P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my intention to merely
promote this survey.


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: toggle object name and type

Gene
 

As far as I know, the behavior can't be changed.
 
Gene

Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:13 AM
Subject: [nvda] toggle object name and type

Hi everybody,


after searching the net and browsing the addons, I still could not find
a solution...

I would like to have nvda speak the object type after the object label
name) how would I do that?


e.g. when browsing a webpage there are buttons and links spoken as:

button welcome

link home


I would like to hear:

welcome button

home link


and so on.


Hope someone can help me to get this done.


cheers

Martin





report symbols

Martin Thomas Swaton
 

Hi together,


I use the addon report symbols to hear what symbols I type, even if I have characters not spoken.


I would like to change the behaviour of this as follows:
currently when typing e.g. "hello." this is spoken right after pressing the "."
I would like to have  it spoken after pressing "space" as with numbers or normal words.
so I would like to hear the whole "hello." after pressing "space"

why?
because of two things:

1. when typing  fast, you would not hear the word "hello" because after pressing "space" it would be stopped from being read.

2. when typing something like "hello.1" you never would get that spoken as one string.

How could I get that running? Could it be added as an option to the plugin or would I have to code the plugin myself?

Thanks for any help,
Martin


NVDA suggestion

Steve Nutt
 

Hi all,

 

When you press Control-Y and go to a folder in outlook 2016, I wonder why NVDA doesn’t read the number of unread messages and you traverse down the folders list?  They are visibly on the screen, and JAWS and Window-Eyes reads them.

 

Would be nice to have.

 

Mind you, Outlook 2016 is pretty unusable with NVDA as it stands, because of the frequent crashing when moving to folders.

 

The latest JAWS 18.4.321 has hacked around and fixed this problem.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

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Re: NVDA Country Subgroups

Brian's Mail list account
 

Yes quite so, probably specific Arabic word processors perhaps?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Country Subgroups


On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 08:24 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:


Yes the next thing you will need is an issues tracker in all the
languages.
Most likely not, in reality. As a general rule trouble tickets/issues must be submitted using the system for doing so dictated by the developers and using the native language (or agreed shared language) of the developers (and very often that's English).

There are limits to how much anyone who's developing software can be expected to do with regard to dealing with issues. I don't know of a single project (though there have to be some) where multi-lingual issue tracking is done.
--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063 (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

* * *The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.* * But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another* * profound truth.*

* ~ * *Niels Bohr*


Re: HTML email [was: Re: [nvda] Download of the Weather Plus add-on]

 

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 08:23 am, Gene wrote:
I've seen very little about this but I think I read somewhere that sending HTML only messages is mor common than it used to be.
Much more common than it once was, and mostly because plain-text e-mail (and other cyber-written media like text messages) is dead, for all practical intents and purposes, except in some very small niches.

Any contemporary and updated e-mail client should be able to gracefully render an HTML formatted e-mail message in plain text if the user employs a force to plain text option.  If it's not then something's either wrong with that client software or the structure of the HTML formatted message itself, which can occasionally happen.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: HTML email [was: Re: [nvda] Download of the Weather Plus add-on]

Chris
 

I see that as plain text, but not your other message

 

 

From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: 02 October 2017 16:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: HTML email [was: Re: [nvda] Download of the Weather Plus add-on]

 

Hello Gene,

My was the problematic message. I use Mozilla Thunderbird version 52.3.0. I've started sending messages only in HTML a long time ago, but only now someone complains that they are hard to read when viewing them as plain text due to the HTML code showing in the plain text. The HTML code shouldn't show in a message when viewing it as plain text, but in this case apparently it does. One of the persons having problems with my message is using KMail under Linux and the other is probably viewing it via the groups.io interface via a web browser, though I don't know if this matters or not. The unusual thing in my problematic message were a few (two, to be exact) emojies that I've inserted via the "Emoticons" add-on for NVDA. Maybe that caused the issue - I don't know. If it is that, in the future I'll try to avoid inserting emojies in my messages (at least for this list).

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 

На 2.10.2017 г. в 18:23, Gene написа:

It may be that a text message should be sent.  It might be useful to know what e-mail application is being used by the original sender. 

 

I've seen very little about this but I think I read somewhere that sending HTML only messages is mor common than it used to be.  I'm curious to know what e-mail programs have problems rendering such messages when reading mail as plain text?  What program are you using?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris

Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:09 AM

Subject: Re: HTML email [was: Re: [nvda] Download of the Weather Plus add-on]

 

I get the same

 

I don’t know what has happened in that particular message but its showing the html code along with the message in plain text, so is difficult to read with a scfeen reader

I don’t see this happening very often but I’m pretty sure it wont be the mail app I’m using

But rather how the  message was created by the sender

 

 

From: Gene
Sent: 02 October 2017 15:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: HTML email [was: Re: [nvda] Download of the Weather Plus add-on]

 

Which e-mail program are you using?  I am reading mail as plain text and I have no such problems.  You may have problems elsewhere and it might be useful to discuss the matter.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 7:42 AM

Subject: HTML email [was: Re: [nvda] Download of the Weather Plus add-on]

 

Please could you avoid posting HTML-only emails to the list?

Post either plain-text or plain-text plus HTML, but please not just the HTML.

It makes things very difficult to read for those of us who prefer text-only
email.

Thanks,

Antony.

On Monday 02 October 2017 at 14:36:21, Kostadin Kolev wrote:

> <html>
>   <head>
>     <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
>   </head>
>   <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
>     <p>Hello Ollie,<br>
>     </p>
>     <p>That is why I use Firefox.
😀 I don't know which browser he used.
>       I can't force him to use a specific browser, even if I know that
>       browser may be the best one.
😀 I told him to change the extension
>       and that worked. But do I have to tell that to everyone that
>       downloads that add-on with the "wrong" browser? And that is not
>       the point. As I said - why it does not happen to other add-ons on
>       the same website? The problem is with this specific add-on and
>       that is the main reason why I've reported it and I mentioned the
>       specific add-on with which it occurs. Otherwise  I would have
>       reported this as affecting the whole NVDA add-ons website.<br>
>     </p>
>     <p>______<br>
>       Best wishes,<br>
>       Kostadin Kolev</p>

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