Date   
Re: Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Rui Fontes
 

Yes, you can choose the Desktop layout and check the CapsLock to be also an NVDA key.
By the way, I use that... Desktop layout with all three NVDA key options checked...

Rui


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Dan Thompson
Data: 3 de outubro de 2017 01:44
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Thank you very very much. What if you are using a desktop. Can you use caplocks plus A?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 7:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Do you have selected the laptop keyboard sheme?
If so, the keystroke is CapsLock+A.

Rui


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Dan Thompson
Data: 3 de outubro de 2017 01:18
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA



HI All,

I use to be able to press one of the nvda keys along with down arrow and
text would be read from the cursor’s location to the end of the document.
This stopped a few upgrades ago. I thought it would come back but has not
yet. I explored the menus but can’t find a setting except unchecking
“simple review mode” to try. So I did uncheck the box and nothing really
changed. Does any have any idea how to get the read to end back?



Thanks very much in advance.

subscribe to "Hotspot With God" daily devotion by sending a blank message
with "subscribe devotion" in the subject line to

dmt031073@...

TRUTH FOR TODAY:

Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes everything to work together for
the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for
them." (NLT)

Psalm 119:60, "I will hasten and not delay to obey your commands." (NIV)

Re: Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Gene
 

You may need to completely uninstall NVDA including residual files left over after the uninstallation and reinstall it.  Others know much more about that than I do.  Also, you can try running NVDA with no add ons and see what that does.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Thanks so much.  Yes, I do have the cap-locks checked and it works fine.  It is just the read to end not working.  Thanks again.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 7:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA

 

If you are using the laptop layout, a lot of other commands are different as well.  Also, whatever layout you are using, have you looked through the keyboard settings dialog to make sure the check box is checked for using the caps lock as an NVDA key?  If you are using the caps lock and if the check box came unchecked in some way, the caps lock won't work.  The check box is available in the desktop or laptop layout.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dan Thompson

Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 7:18 PM

Subject: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA

 

HI All,

I use to be able to press one of the nvda keys along with down arrow and text would be read from the cursor’s location to the end of the document.  This stopped a few upgrades ago.  I thought it would come back but has not yet.  I explored the menus but can’t find a setting except unchecking “simple review mode” to try.  So I did uncheck the box and nothing really changed.  Does any have any idea how to get the read to end back?

 

Thanks very much in advance.

subscribe to "Hotspot With God" daily devotion by sending a blank message with "subscribe devotion" in the subject line to

dmt031073@...

TRUTH FOR TODAY:

Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who  love God and are called according to his purpose for them." (NLT)

Psalm 119:60, "I will hasten and not delay to obey your commands." (NIV)

 

Re: Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi yep


You just need the caps lock one checked as well. I have all 3 here but may only use the insert key or caps lock key with the down arrow key most of the time. It depends where the cup of coffee is.


Gene nz



On 10/3/2017 1:44 PM, Dan Thompson wrote:
Thank you very very much.  What if you are using a desktop.  Can you use caplocks plus A?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 7:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Do you have selected the laptop keyboard sheme?
If so, the keystroke is CapsLock+A.

Rui


-----Mensagem Original----- 
De: Dan Thompson
Data: 3 de outubro de 2017 01:18
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA



HI All,

I use to be able to press one of the nvda keys along with down arrow and 
text would be read from the cursor’s location to the end of the document. 
This stopped a few upgrades ago.  I thought it would come back but has not 
yet.  I explored the menus but can’t find a setting except unchecking 
“simple review mode” to try.  So I did uncheck the box and nothing really 
changed.  Does any have any idea how to get the read to end back?



Thanks very much in advance.

subscribe to "Hotspot With God" daily devotion by sending a blank message 
with "subscribe devotion" in the subject line to

dmt031073@...

TRUTH FOR TODAY:

Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes everything to work together for 
the good of those who  love God and are called according to his purpose for 
them." (NLT)

Psalm 119:60, "I will hasten and not delay to obey your commands." (NIV)



 









--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

Re: Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

By the way in which program is it not doing it in? I could understand it in open office but not word etc.


Gene nz



On 10/3/2017 1:18 PM, Dan Thompson wrote:

HI All,

I use to be able to press one of the nvda keys along with down arrow and text would be read from the cursor’s location to the end of the document.  This stopped a few upgrades ago.  I thought it would come back but has not yet.  I explored the menus but can’t find a setting except unchecking “simple review mode” to try.  So I did uncheck the box and nothing really changed.  Does any have any idea how to get the read to end back?

 

Thanks very much in advance.

subscribe to "Hotspot With God" daily devotion by sending a blank message with "subscribe devotion" in the subject line to

dmt031073@...

TRUTH FOR TODAY:

Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who  love God and are called according to his purpose for them." (NLT)

Psalm 119:60, "I will hasten and not delay to obey your commands." (NIV)

 


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

Re: Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


Check under the key board settings in NVDA. one of them that you use might of been unchecked. There are 3 to chose from you can either have them all or just the one.


These are the caps lock key the insert key or the extended insert key. make sure it is checked what ever one you choose. for example my insrt key is checked.


Gene nz



On 10/3/2017 1:18 PM, Dan Thompson wrote:

HI All,

I use to be able to press one of the nvda keys along with down arrow and text would be read from the cursor’s location to the end of the document.  This stopped a few upgrades ago.  I thought it would come back but has not yet.  I explored the menus but can’t find a setting except unchecking “simple review mode” to try.  So I did uncheck the box and nothing really changed.  Does any have any idea how to get the read to end back?

 

Thanks very much in advance.

subscribe to "Hotspot With God" daily devotion by sending a blank message with "subscribe devotion" in the subject line to

dmt031073@...

TRUTH FOR TODAY:

Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who  love God and are called according to his purpose for them." (NLT)

Psalm 119:60, "I will hasten and not delay to obey your commands." (NIV)

 


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

amazing promptness of responses from this list

Dan Thompson
 

I am just writing to express my  amazement at how fast subscribers to this list get responses.  That does not happen on any of the other around 15 lists I have a subscription with.  It shows how genuinely the developers and everyday users of NVDA want anyone using the program to be successful.  Thanks very much again.

make sure the  am other list I belo

 

subscribe to "Hotspot With God" daily devotion by sending a blank message with "subscribe devotion" in the subject line to

dmt031073@...

TRUTH FOR TODAY:

Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who  love God and are called according to his purpose for them." (NLT)

Psalm 119:60, "I will hasten and not delay to obey your commands." (NIV)

 

Re: Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Dan Thompson
 

Thank you very very much. What if you are using a desktop. Can you use caplocks plus A?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 7:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Do you have selected the laptop keyboard sheme?
If so, the keystroke is CapsLock+A.

Rui


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Dan Thompson
Data: 3 de outubro de 2017 01:18
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA



HI All,

I use to be able to press one of the nvda keys along with down arrow and
text would be read from the cursor’s location to the end of the document.
This stopped a few upgrades ago. I thought it would come back but has not
yet. I explored the menus but can’t find a setting except unchecking
“simple review mode” to try. So I did uncheck the box and nothing really
changed. Does any have any idea how to get the read to end back?



Thanks very much in advance.

subscribe to "Hotspot With God" daily devotion by sending a blank message
with "subscribe devotion" in the subject line to

dmt031073@...

TRUTH FOR TODAY:

Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes everything to work together for
the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for
them." (NLT)

Psalm 119:60, "I will hasten and not delay to obey your commands." (NIV)

Re: Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Dan Thompson
 

Thanks so much.  Yes, I do have the cap-locks checked and it works fine.  It is just the read to end not working.  Thanks again.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 7:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA

 

If you are using the laptop layout, a lot of other commands are different as well.  Also, whatever layout you are using, have you looked through the keyboard settings dialog to make sure the check box is checked for using the caps lock as an NVDA key?  If you are using the caps lock and if the check box came unchecked in some way, the caps lock won't work.  The check box is available in the desktop or laptop layout.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 7:18 PM

Subject: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA

 

HI All,

I use to be able to press one of the nvda keys along with down arrow and text would be read from the cursor’s location to the end of the document.  This stopped a few upgrades ago.  I thought it would come back but has not yet.  I explored the menus but can’t find a setting except unchecking “simple review mode” to try.  So I did uncheck the box and nothing really changed.  Does any have any idea how to get the read to end back?

 

Thanks very much in advance.

subscribe to "Hotspot With God" daily devotion by sending a blank message with "subscribe devotion" in the subject line to

dmt031073@...

TRUTH FOR TODAY:

Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who  love God and are called according to his purpose for them." (NLT)

Psalm 119:60, "I will hasten and not delay to obey your commands." (NIV)

 

Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi Eric


I would agree with what you said as when you go back through the surveys you can see the shift that is happening.


Even with the touch phones coming on board what they do now for us is great and will only get better. Personally when out and about the phone goes with me for knowing where i am and other blindness related things i may use it for which you can not do with a desk top pc or lap top.

I know the smart phone has changed many life's and now not having to pay for a screen reader on top of the phone like with the old smart phones more blind people are able to get them.. Android hones have over 80 percent of the market and a fair share of tablets not like apple devices.

Just watching what they used to pay before if you wanted the KNFB reader and the phone it went on here back a few years before apple came on board we or some body would pay up to about 3500 to 4000 dollars which would include the screen reader, phone and knfb reader software. When apple came out with the i phone and that meant the price dropped as the phone had the screen reader built into it. the price of the knfb reader software dropped from 2500 or so down to about 150 kiwi dollars unless they dropped the price but still the price of the i phone was a barrier for most.

Now with android phones you can buy them far cheaper than a i phone and as long as you meet the specs for the knfb reader a 8mp camera my last phone cost 75 bucks and the price of the knfb reader software which is still cheaper than a apple device. Yet i can do pretty much all the same i did with the i phone on a android device.

I would still rather a computer or laptop but can see them made smaller but i still prefer the keyboard for typing alot of material. This may change more in the next couple of years where we can just speak stuff and it will open it or write it down for you using voice.

The thing i like with nvda as well is you can have as many copies of it as you like unlike some.  The upgrades do not cost a fortune either but i always donate to keep the project going even if it is a small amount by some.

if it was not for NVDA we would not have a screen reader in any of our libraries here in new zealand there might be a couple of copies of jaws but that is about it.
they most probably would not be updated either.

But that changed here in 2008 as NVDA was installed onto every computer on the APN network for people to use. the following link will show all the locations where we can go and use a copy of NVDA throughout new zealand at http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/statistics
So there is 750 copies of NVDA through out new zealand to use which could not be done with a commercial version such as jaws.
Yet you look at our user statistics for new zealand and it might say a max of 92.
 
I was looking on training material for both NVDA and jaws just to get a idea and if you look at say nvda pricing at https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
 then look at it for jaws at https://store.freedomscientific.com/collections/training
Even though there is fre material that comes with jaws how can the cost of the training bundle cost that much? Maybe that is the price to government departments or blind foundation etc but wow.

We are lucky so far that apple and android devices have come on board as well so at least we have a bit more of a choice. Even though screen readers are tools of the visually impaired or blind my wife also teaches dyslexics and one of the tools she uses as well is a screen reader namely nvda if on course or if they have a touch device show them how to turn on the screen reader and use it.
they just need to be made aware of the technology.
     
At present over here they are just starting to do laws around accessibility etc for websites and so on.
Yet other countries are well ahead of us for this type of stuff.

Gene nz
 



 

On 10/3/2017 6:12 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:

The sample size is very small in these surveys,  but they definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised at all to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws useage down.  Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the product is discontinued.  This will help slow the skid of jaws, but I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to NVDA as to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for Many window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that blind users want it more and more.  I have thought for years that 2021 is about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs, particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of tradition going by the board by then.  This is all good for us, and it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or android and or voiceover.

Take care

On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

hi Bhavya


I have been following the surveys after they  survey  has finished.


I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users and magnifiers etc.


Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of android and apple devices that can go portable.


For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if mobile a android device.


Gene nz



On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:
Dear all,
Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web accessibility
consultancy organisation, has been conducting an annual (sometimes
biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts to gather
statistics about the usage share of different screen readers,
technology (particularly Internet) accessibility trends, etc. so as to
aid analysts, researchers, accessibility consultants, sighted
developers, and mainstream companies to get a quantified picture of
the state of the AT industry.
While this survey features participation from varied geographies,
NVDA’s user base, at least in my personal view, has always been
understated. While 8% respondents of the first December 2008 WebAim
survey reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only increased to
14% of respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use NVDA as
their primary screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a usage share
substantially lower than NVDA’s commercial and more expensive screen
reading alternatives.
I think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in getting
the word out about NVDA’s viability and competency  if all NVDA
community members, users, testers and other related parties,
particularly from second and third world developing regions which
often remain silent for such surveys but where free and open source
NVDA makes a prominent impact, take this survey and contribute to
letting the world know about the size and standing of the NVDA user
base.
The URL of said survey is  https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/
.
It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and the form was
extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but filling such
surveys always brings out useful and reflective data, which, in turn,
betters AT as a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take some time
out for this survey so that we can make the data truly reflective of
the actualities.
Thanks.
P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my intention to merely
promote this survey.


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

Re: Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Gene
 

If you are using the laptop layout, a lot of other commands are different as well.  Also, whatever layout you are using, have you looked through the keyboard settings dialog to make sure the check box is checked for using the caps lock as an NVDA key?  If you are using the caps lock and if the check box came unchecked in some way, the caps lock won't work.  The check box is available in the desktop or laptop layout.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 7:18 PM
Subject: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA

HI All,

I use to be able to press one of the nvda keys along with down arrow and text would be read from the cursor’s location to the end of the document.  This stopped a few upgrades ago.  I thought it would come back but has not yet.  I explored the menus but can’t find a setting except unchecking “simple review mode” to try.  So I did uncheck the box and nothing really changed.  Does any have any idea how to get the read to end back?

 

Thanks very much in advance.

subscribe to "Hotspot With God" daily devotion by sending a blank message with "subscribe devotion" in the subject line to

dmt031073@...

TRUTH FOR TODAY:

Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who  love God and are called according to his purpose for them." (NLT)

Psalm 119:60, "I will hasten and not delay to obey your commands." (NIV)

 

Re: bug in browsemode

Sally Kiebdaj
 

It sounds like you would like the n shortcut to work the same way as the k or h shortcuts where the entire element is spoken. However, the t shortcut does not read an entire table but instead brings you to the top of it. Same goes for the list shortcut, I believe. 

Is that a correct characterization of what you are describing and what you would like from the shortcut? 

I am not sure how or why some shortcut keys read the entire element or only focus the start of it but that seems to be the question at hand. 

Cheers,
Sally 

Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Gene
 

It isn't the fault of the businesses.  They weren't being unfair.  However it is done, in a nonprofit model such as NVDA, or in a for profit model, the costs could be made small or nonexistent.  NVDA is free because it was decided by the developers to fund it in other ways and that's one way to do it.  In the case of a for profit sscreen-reader, the price to anyone who buys it and is certified as qualified, that is as being blind or not to be able to read a screen, could have the government subsidize the cost.  A disability tax, such as a penny or less per something sold such as for every computer sold could raise money for this purpose and for other accessibility purposes.  
 
But it isn't the tiny companies making screen-readers who are to blame.  it's that nothing has been done to make screen-readers available for little or no additional money while providing the companies a profit.  The reason NVDA exists is that no such provisions were made to make for profit screen-readers available. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

I also see the development of NVDA being driven not just from an economical perspective, but from a social point of view as well. Lots of people actually understood what a screen reader gives to them, and this is far more equal access to information than braille or any other special device designed to bring information to individuals with visual disabilities. The point is that lots of people became aware that a sighted person does not have to pay anything to access day to day information. Whereas blind of visually impaired have to pay ridiculous prices for getting information. This type of business is actually unfair because it put a sort of break on the development of children or caused huge unemployment among people with visual disabilities. Companies were not willing to implement complicated solutions and many people have not been encuraged to apply for other jobs apart from standards such as telefonist or physio therapist etc. Now NVDA gives lots of people the chance to improve professionally and to get high quality access to information for no money. Now children can read almost every book they want on several platforms with NVDA or Voice Over. So it will not be the economical aspect which will drive such products like Jaws to death. It will be the social effects.

 

And if you look at countries which were underdeveloped like 30 years ago (i.e. China), those countries could develop amongst others because people had access to education and information for low prices. This was somehow driven by several development institutions which invested in such countries huge amounts to improve the society. I know it is not the best comparison, but now several really good and motivated people invest their talent, and some of them their money as well, in improving NVDA.

 

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von erik burggraaf
Gesendet: Montag, 2. Oktober 2017 23:51
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

Lots of for proffit companies made free or low cost screen readers.  Serotek for one.  Apple for another.  I'd say both companies were successful to one degree or another.  So, why didn't we see governments lining up to pay for system access?  Well, to a lesser extent some did, but if screen readers cost less, then the funding becomes less and the portfoleos of nondisabled people making big money from accessibility legislation shrink.  We certainly don't want that.  But even at that, system access and the system access network lasted for a very long time, largely on consumer driven support.

NVDA didn't succeed because it was not for proffit.  It succeded because of the dedication of the people who started it, and the following those founders were able to inspire.  It's sustainable because of the people who work on it.  The fact that it is non for proffit gives it certain advantages such as the fact that it can't be subsumed by a for proffit.  Lots of free windows screen readers entered and left the market in the past 10 years.  NVDA is the only one to thrive, much less survive, and it's because of the talendt, and the management.

Then again, the fact that NVDA itself is non for proffit hasn't prevented the organization from accepting grants and sponsorships from for proffit companies, and whatever I may think of those companies individually, the output from those grants contributed to the general effectiveness of NVDA, which lead to more adoption which lead to donation revinue, which lead to more improvements until we have the body of work which now is viable enough to stand up to a commercial product in the vast majority of situations.

So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.  I've heard all the arguments for nearly as long as you have.  I'll allow there was a time when they may have made sense to one degree or another.  Certainly the first opticon and kurzweil reading machine costed enormously more in terms of research and development than say the knfb reader mobile app.  In fact, vast commercial uses for scanning, ocr, text to speech, dictation, and other technologies developed for disability communities are prevailant and highly intergrated into modern society.  Accessibility legislation is between 25 and 50 years old.  Commercial standards for developing things to be accessible are well established and supported by legislation.  Time and talent still cost money, but we stand on the shoulders of giants.  It's not what it was in the late 70's and early 80's.  Completely different situation.

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 5:25:39 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

That is not correct and I've seen that argument many times.  JAWS is expensive because it is a specialized product with a tiny market.  If Windows had the number of users JAWS has, it would be  exorbitantly expensive as well.  It's mass production with enormous customer bases that makes most manufactured products we use inexpensive.  You can argue about whether institutions could cause the price of JAWS to be lower by negotiating, I don't know if the owners of JAWS charge more than they need to to make a product.  But anyone on this list who purchases or has purchased a sophisticated computer program that sells to a very small audience will confirm that such products are very expensive.  Institutions may be bureaucratic but they aren't fools.  Entrepreneurs are creative and inventive.  If it were possible to have a screen-reader with the power and sophistication of JAWS for significantly less, someone would have entered the market at a cheaper price.  They've had more than two decades to do so in the case of Windows screen-readers.  Where are they, or even one?

 

The only way a powerful screen-reader has been developed that is within the reach of a lot of blind people is to completely work outside of the for profit model.  NVDA is free because it is not a for profit product and relies on people working for about minimum wage, grants, and volunteers to develop and create add ons.  Which proves my point.  Someone else did fill the need for a screen-reader for people who can't afford a for profit screen--reader but it was outside of the for profit model.  Entrepreneurs are creative and motivated enough that, as I said, if a for profit screen-reader could be developed  for a significantly cheaper price, it would have been long ago.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 4:03 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

Accessibility laws change the game.  The market for jaws is different from the market of most other products.  The primary target market doesn't actually use the product.  The reason commercial screen readers are sustainable is that governments in developed countrys have legislated that the government must accept the financial cost of communication aids for people with print disabilities as a means of leveling the playing field.  That is why the cost of the tecchnologies has always been out of reach for most blind consumers, and very little to do with the development cost and comparitive small size of the market as most commercial access technologists claim. 

So, there's no evidence to suggest that vfo or any company is planning to jack up prices even higher than they already are, but there are legislative hooks that might allow them to if they wanted.

I really think though that they are battoning down and preparing to ride out the end times with what they have.  The consolidation has pretty much taken place.  A few straglers haven't bought in or bowed out, but they have unique markets of their own.

The government funding that constitutes the primary support for products like jaws is on the severe decline as the use cases for the products over cheeper less specialized alternatives growes less and less by the day.  If the size of the market dictated the price as they always claimed, then considering the dwindling share of the market controlled by commercial AT, it makes sense that the price would go up, especially in the case of VFO's new exclusivity agreements in geographic regions that were either not controlled or controlled by companies that are no more.  The odd thing is, with NVDA distributed free as a noncommercial product, I doubt it falls under the commercial exclusivity agreements anyhow. 

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 4:24:22 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

Why would the owners of JAWS commit suicide or strongly encourage purchasers not to use their product by doing something ridiculous, as you suggest?  They won't.  I don't know if they will try different prices as time goes on to get the most profit from the most or optimum number of sales, but that is different from behaving irrationally.  Is this part of the JAWS is greedy and can charge anything it wants argument?  It doesn't matter in the context of this argument, that I've heard for two decades with no meaningful proof given, whether JAWS is greedy or not.  What matters is that JAWS doesn't exist in a vacuum.  It may charge what the market will bear but it still operates in a market.  If institutions are willing to pay a price, JAWS may decide to charge it.  But that doesn't mean that institutions are irrational.  They aren't going to accept a thousand percent price rise of a product just because JAWS owners decide to try to charge it. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Sky Mundell

Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 3:00 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions that deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and here in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS always saw its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the price of JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force educational institutions to go with NVDA.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

The sample size is very small in these surveys,  but they definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised at all to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws useage down.  Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the product is discontinued.  This will help slow the skid of jaws, but I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to NVDA as to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for Many window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that blind users want it more and more.  I have thought for years that 2021 is about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs, particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of tradition going by the board by then.  This is all good for us, and it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or android and or voiceover.

 

Take care




On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

 

hi Bhavya

 

I have been following the surveys after they  survey  has finished.

 

I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users and magnifiers etc.

 

Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of android and apple devices that can go portable.

 

For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if mobile a android device.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,
Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web
accessibility
consultancy organisation, has been conducting an
annual (sometimes
biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts
to gather
statistics
about the usage share of different screen
readers,
technology
(particularly Internet) accessibility trends, etc. so as
to
aid analysts,
researchers, accessibility consultants,
sighted
developers,
and mainstream companies to get a quantified picture
of
the state of the
AT industry.
While
this survey features participation from varied
geographies,
NVDA’s
user base, at least in my personal view, has always
been
understated.
While 8% respondents of the first December 2008
WebAim
survey
reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only increased
to
14% of
respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use NVDA
as
their primary
screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a usage
share
substantially
lower than NVDA’s commercial and more expensive
screen
reading
alternatives.
I
think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in
getting
the word out
about NVDA’s viability and competency  if all
NVDA
community
members, users, testers and other related
parties,
particularly from second and third world developing
regions which
often
remain silent for such surveys but where free and open
source
NVDA makes a
prominent impact, take this survey and contribute
to
letting the world
know about the size and standing of the NVDA
user
base.
The URL of said survey is  https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/
.
It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and
the form was
extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but
filling such
surveys
always brings out useful and reflective data, which, in
turn,
betters AT as
a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take some
time
out for this
survey so that we can make the data truly reflective
of
the
actualities.
Thanks.
P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my
intention to merely
promote this survey.
 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 

Re: Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Rui Fontes
 

Do you have selected the laptop keyboard sheme?
If so, the keystroke is CapsLock+A.

Rui


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Dan Thompson
Data: 3 de outubro de 2017 01:18
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA



HI All,

I use to be able to press one of the nvda keys along with down arrow and text would be read from the cursor’s location to the end of the document. This stopped a few upgrades ago. I thought it would come back but has not yet. I explored the menus but can’t find a setting except unchecking “simple review mode” to try. So I did uncheck the box and nothing really changed. Does any have any idea how to get the read to end back?



Thanks very much in advance.

subscribe to "Hotspot With God" daily devotion by sending a blank message with "subscribe devotion" in the subject line to

dmt031073@...

TRUTH FOR TODAY:

Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them." (NLT)

Psalm 119:60, "I will hasten and not delay to obey your commands." (NIV)

Re: bug in browsemode

Gene
 

I don't recall saying it should read nothing.  I'm saying that it now reads the first line, as I recall.  Then when you use n again, as I recall, it skipts to the next nonlink text and reads the first line of text.  I consider that to be proper behavior unless you have already started speak all, in which case, it would be a matter of discussion on the list for what kind of behavior people want.  I don't have an opinion on the question.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode



Am 02.10.2017 um 22:14 schrieb Gene:
Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.  How does n know what you want?  You often intentionally want to use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want to hear the block you have used the command to skip to.  You can make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading.  But having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea.  N does one thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.  Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
 
Gene

Gene, thanks for your answer. If "n" only should skip to the next block, then the bug is the other way round, as it  seems to read the first line (at least on some blocks)
so it does not behave correct anyway. Either it should read nothing, as you think, then it just jumps to the next block of non-linked text. this would be okay for me, if it does this and reads nothing.

Or it should be, what it does in other screen readers, jump to the next non-linked block and read it - because why should I want to jump to the block if I do not want to read it???
For me this would be the only usecase - jump to it, because I want to read it, so it should be read.

anyway, now it jumps to it and sometimes reads the first line (or says space - maybe if space is the first line) but it does speak something on each keypress.

it definitely is a bug - we just could clarify what the bug exactly is ;-)

hope you can reproduce it
because it really is a bit anoying as it  would be a great way to read through text if it would behave consistent all the time.

best,
Martin



----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin






Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Dan Thompson
 

HI All,

I use to be able to press one of the nvda keys along with down arrow and text would be read from the cursor’s location to the end of the document.  This stopped a few upgrades ago.  I thought it would come back but has not yet.  I explored the menus but can’t find a setting except unchecking “simple review mode” to try.  So I did uncheck the box and nothing really changed.  Does any have any idea how to get the read to end back?

 

Thanks very much in advance.

subscribe to "Hotspot With God" daily devotion by sending a blank message with "subscribe devotion" in the subject line to

dmt031073@...

TRUTH FOR TODAY:

Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who  love God and are called according to his purpose for them." (NLT)

Psalm 119:60, "I will hasten and not delay to obey your commands." (NIV)

 

Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Gene
 

I specifically said powerful screen-reader.  the Serotek (spelling) screen-reader is not a powerful screen-reader and, though it does what it does well, it isn't intended for advanced or tailored uses. 
 
the Apple screen-reader demonstrates my point concerning mass production.  It is intended for a very small base of users but every person or institution who buys an Apple device helps pay for it.  It is, therefore, able to be provided at a very cheap price because the entire Apple customer base pays for it. 
 
Havbe you studied economics?  I'm asking because I suspect that many of the arguments you see constantly repeated concerning JAWS as a predator and their alleged gouging are repeated by people who haven't studied it.  I'm not assuming anything in your case.  But I'm going to start asking people when such subjects come up to see if my hypothesis is correct.  Also, I don't just mean formally studied economics.  What I know about economics comes from discussing the subject with knowledgeable people and reading books that discuss economics for the layman.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Lots of for proffit companies made free or low cost screen readers.  Serotek for one.  Apple for another.  I'd say both companies were successful to one degree or another.  So, why didn't we see governments lining up to pay for system access?  Well, to a lesser extent some did, but if screen readers cost less, then the funding becomes less and the portfoleos of nondisabled people making big money from accessibility legislation shrink.  We certainly don't want that.  But even at that, system access and the system access network lasted for a very long time, largely on consumer driven support.

NVDA didn't succeed because it was not for proffit.  It succeded because of the dedication of the people who started it, and the following those founders were able to inspire.  It's sustainable because of the people who work on it.  The fact that it is non for proffit gives it certain advantages such as the fact that it can't be subsumed by a for proffit.  Lots of free windows screen readers entered and left the market in the past 10 years.  NVDA is the only one to thrive, much less survive, and it's because of the talendt, and the management.

Then again, the fact that NVDA itself is non for proffit hasn't prevented the organization from accepting grants and sponsorships from for proffit companies, and whatever I may think of those companies individually, the output from those grants contributed to the general effectiveness of NVDA, which lead to more adoption which lead to donation revinue, which lead to more improvements until we have the body of work which now is viable enough to stand up to a commercial product in the vast majority of situations.

So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.  I've heard all the arguments for nearly as long as you have.  I'll allow there was a time when they may have made sense to one degree or another.  Certainly the first opticon and kurzweil reading machine costed enormously more in terms of research and development than say the knfb reader mobile app.  In fact, vast commercial uses for scanning, ocr, text to speech, dictation, and other technologies developed for disability communities are prevailant and highly intergrated into modern society.  Accessibility legislation is between 25 and 50 years old.  Commercial standards for developing things to be accessible are well established and supported by legislation.  Time and talent still cost money, but we stand on the shoulders of giants.  It's not what it was in the late 70's and early 80's.  Completely different situation.

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 5:25:39 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

That is not correct and I've seen that argument many times.  JAWS is expensive because it is a specialized product with a tiny market.  If Windows had the number of users JAWS has, it would be  exorbitantly expensive as well.  It's mass production with enormous customer bases that makes most manufactured products we use inexpensive.  You can argue about whether institutions could cause the price of JAWS to be lower by negotiating, I don't know if the owners of JAWS charge more than they need to to make a product.  But anyone on this list who purchases or has purchased a sophisticated computer program that sells to a very small audience will confirm that such products are very expensive.  Institutions may be bureaucratic but they aren't fools.  Entrepreneurs are creative and inventive.  If it were possible to have a screen-reader with the power and sophistication of JAWS for significantly less, someone would have entered the market at a cheaper price.  They've had more than two decades to do so in the case of Windows screen-readers.  Where are they, or even one?
 
The only way a powerful screen-reader has been developed that is within the reach of a lot of blind people is to completely work outside of the for profit model.  NVDA is free because it is not a for profit product and relies on people working for about minimum wage, grants, and volunteers to develop and create add ons.  Which proves my point.  Someone else did fill the need for a screen-reader for people who can't afford a for profit screen--reader but it was outside of the for profit model.  Entrepreneurs are creative and motivated enough that, as I said, if a for profit screen-reader could be developed  for a significantly cheaper price, it would have been long ago.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Accessibility laws change the game.  The market for jaws is different from the market of most other products.  The primary target market doesn't actually use the product.  The reason commercial screen readers are sustainable is that governments in developed countrys have legislated that the government must accept the financial cost of communication aids for people with print disabilities as a means of leveling the playing field.  That is why the cost of the tecchnologies has always been out of reach for most blind consumers, and very little to do with the development cost and comparitive small size of the market as most commercial access technologists claim. 

So, there's no evidence to suggest that vfo or any company is planning to jack up prices even higher than they already are, but there are legislative hooks that might allow them to if they wanted.

I really think though that they are battoning down and preparing to ride out the end times with what they have.  The consolidation has pretty much taken place.  A few straglers haven't bought in or bowed out, but they have unique markets of their own.

The government funding that constitutes the primary support for products like jaws is on the severe decline as the use cases for the products over cheeper less specialized alternatives growes less and less by the day.  If the size of the market dictated the price as they always claimed, then considering the dwindling share of the market controlled by commercial AT, it makes sense that the price would go up, especially in the case of VFO's new exclusivity agreements in geographic regions that were either not controlled or controlled by companies that are no more.  The odd thing is, with NVDA distributed free as a noncommercial product, I doubt it falls under the commercial exclusivity agreements anyhow. 

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 4:24:22 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

Why would the owners of JAWS commit suicide or strongly encourage purchasers not to use their product by doing something ridiculous, as you suggest?  They won't.  I don't know if they will try different prices as time goes on to get the most profit from the most or optimum number of sales, but that is different from behaving irrationally.  Is this part of the JAWS is greedy and can charge anything it wants argument?  It doesn't matter in the context of this argument, that I've heard for two decades with no meaningful proof given, whether JAWS is greedy or not.  What matters is that JAWS doesn't exist in a vacuum.  It may charge what the market will bear but it still operates in a market.  If institutions are willing to pay a price, JAWS may decide to charge it.  But that doesn't mean that institutions are irrational.  They aren't going to accept a thousand percent price rise of a product just because JAWS owners decide to try to charge it. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions that deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and here in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS always saw its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the price of JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force educational institutions to go with NVDA.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

The sample size is very small in these surveys,  but they definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised at all to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws useage down.  Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the product is discontinued.  This will help slow the skid of jaws, but I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to NVDA as to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for Many window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that blind users want it more and more.  I have thought for years that 2021 is about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs, particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of tradition going by the board by then.  This is all good for us, and it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or android and or voiceover.

 

Take care



On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

 

hi Bhavya

 

I have been following the surveys after they  survey  has finished.

 

I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users and magnifiers etc.

 

Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of android and apple devices that can go portable.

 

For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if mobile a android device.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,
Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web
accessibility
consultancy organisation, has been conducting an
annual (sometimes
biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts
to gather
statistics
about the usage share of different screen
readers,
technology
(particularly Internet) accessibility trends, etc. so as
to
aid analysts,
researchers, accessibility consultants,
sighted
developers,
and mainstream companies to get a quantified picture
of
the state of the
AT industry.
While
this survey features participation from varied
geographies,
NVDA’s
user base, at least in my personal view, has always
been
understated.
While 8% respondents of the first December 2008
WebAim
survey
reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only increased
to
14% of
respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use NVDA
as
their primary
screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a usage
share
substantially
lower than NVDA’s commercial and more expensive
screen
reading
alternatives.
I
think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in
getting
the word out
about NVDA’s viability and competency  if all
NVDA
community
members, users, testers and other related
parties,
particularly from second and third world developing
regions which
often
remain silent for such surveys but where free and open
source
NVDA makes a
prominent impact, take this survey and contribute
to
letting the world
know about the size and standing of the NVDA
user
base.
The URL of said survey is  https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/
.
It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and
the form was
extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but
filling such
surveys
always brings out useful and reflective data, which, in
turn,
betters AT as
a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take some
time
out for this
survey so that we can make the data truly reflective
of
the
actualities.
Thanks.
P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my
intention to merely
promote this survey.
 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 

Re: Prevent system sleep/standby while NVDA is reading something

 

To be honest when I am setting a system up, I turn sleep and hybernation off only shutdown on.

I have it so it will shut down when I hit the button and only that.

I have had hybernate active on a system but only because the usr closed the lid and left it running till its battery died last week but I really don't care for things powering off.

similarly  I don't ever allow processers and all those saving features to remain set for so call savings mode I know I use power faster but if I need the power I need it.

One thing that does change it is if I need it on my lap, I do then dumb down the cpu a lot, my lap is not a hot cake.




On 3/10/2017 8:17 a.m., Kostadin Kolev wrote:

Re: HTML email [was: Re: [nvda] Download of the Weather Plus add-on]

 

To be honest,

Its probably an old email program, depending on the rendering engine it can be a problem.

Especially if on a slow connection.Sadly it can be the mail in question outlook 16 has a lot of issues at times depending what it is and so can thunderbird though it is a lot better.

I usually try to render in text when I can but I can read as text html fine and its usually good.

On 3/10/2017 4:35 a.m., Kostadin Kolev wrote:
Hello Gene,

My was the problematic message. I use Mozilla Thunderbird version 52.3.0. I've
started sending messages only in HTML a long time ago, but only now someone
complains that they are hard to read when viewing them as plain text due to the
HTML code showing in the plain text. The HTML code shouldn't show in a message
when viewing it as plain text, but in this case apparently it does. One of the
persons having problems with my message is using KMail under Linux and the other
is probably viewing it via the groups.io interface via a web browser, though I
don't know if this matters or not. The unusual thing in my problematic message
were a few (two, to be exact) emojies that I've inserted via the "Emoticons"
add-on for NVDA. Maybe that caused the issue - I don't know. If it is that, in
the future I'll try to avoid inserting emojies in my messages (at least for this
list).

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev


На 2.10.2017 г. в 18:23, Gene написа:
It may be that a text message should be sent. It might be useful to know what e-mail application is being used by the original sender.
I've seen very little about this but I think I read somewhere that sending HTML only messages is mor common than it used to be. I'm curious to know what e-mail programs have problems rendering such messages when reading mail as plain text? What program are you using?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Chris <mailto:chrismedley@...>
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 10:09 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: HTML email [was: Re: [nvda] Download of the Weather Plus add-on]

I get the same

I don’t know what has happened in that particular message but its showing the html code along with the message in plain text, so is difficult to read with a scfeen reader

I don’t see this happening very often but I’m pretty sure it wont be the mail app I’m using

But rather how the message was created by the sender

*From: *Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
*Sent: *02 October 2017 15:33
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: HTML email [was: Re: [nvda] Download of the Weather Plus add-on]

Which e-mail program are you using? I am reading mail as plain text and I have no such problems. You may have problems elsewhere and it might be useful to discuss the matter.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>

*Sent:*Monday, October 02, 2017 7:42 AM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*HTML email [was: Re: [nvda] Download of the Weather Plus add-on]

Please could you avoid posting HTML-only emails to the list?

Post either plain-text or plain-text plus HTML, but please not just the HTML.

It makes things very difficult to read for those of us who prefer text-only
email.

Thanks,

Antony.

On Monday 02 October 2017 at 14:36:21, Kostadin Kolev wrote:

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Hello Ollie,<br>
</p>
<p>That is why I use Firefox. 😀 I don't know which browser he used.
I can't force him to use a specific browser, even if I know that
browser may be the best one. 😀 I told him to change the extension
and that worked. But do I have to tell that to everyone that
downloads that add-on with the "wrong" browser? And that is not
the point. As I said - why it does not happen to other add-ons on
the same website? The problem is with this specific add-on and
that is the main reason why I've reported it and I mentioned the
specific add-on with which it occurs. Otherwise I would have
reported this as affecting the whole NVDA add-ons website.<br>
</p>
<p>______<br>
Best wishes,<br>
Kostadin Kolev</p>
--
If you were ploughing a field, which would you rather use - two strong oxen or
1024 chickens?

- Seymour Cray, pioneer of supercomputing

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.

Re: Download of the Weather Plus add-on

 

Well it is a zip.

A zip with a lot of files in it.

The only difference from this zip is the manafest config file.

You change the extention, you run it, if there is no manafest file its just a zip, if there is a file then nvda knows that it needs to be extracted in a certain place and have all its descriptions and where it goes.

Its just a configured zip file.

On 3/10/2017 4:15 a.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
This is in fact a zip file and some servers seem to actually not allow you to keep dodgy extensions. If it looks like a zip walks like a zip it gets called a zip. I remember all the  fiddling about to get this to work correctly back some years back. In fact its not a major issue, you can of course call it what you like when you are pronpted for a file name to save it as!
Why its happening to this particular download is a mystery.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kostadin Kolev" <@k_kolev1985>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 1:12 PM
Subject: [nvda] Download of the Weather Plus add-on


Hello all,


A friend of mine has reported to me that he has problems downloading the "Weather Plus" add-on for NVDA from here:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/weatherPlus.en.html

He says that when he downloads the add-on, its extension is not .nvda-addon, but .zip. I also noticed some peculiarities while trying to download this add-on. In Firefox, while using its integrated download mechanism, the add-on gets the correct extension. But if I use Internet Download Manager in Firefox, the given extension is .zip. I've tested with Internet Explorer and Microsoft Edge with their integrated download mechanisms and the given extension is .zip, instead of .nvda-addon. I don't have such problems with other add-ons that I download from the official NVDA add-ons website, even if I use Internet Download Manager via Firefox to do the downloading. So, any idea what's going on?

Thanks much in advance!


______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev



Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Adriani Botez
 

I also see the development of NVDA being driven not just from an economical perspective, but from a social point of view as well. Lots of people actually understood what a screen reader gives to them, and this is far more equal access to information than braille or any other special device designed to bring information to individuals with visual disabilities. The point is that lots of people became aware that a sighted person does not have to pay anything to access day to day information. Whereas blind of visually impaired have to pay ridiculous prices for getting information. This type of business is actually unfair because it put a sort of break on the development of children or caused huge unemployment among people with visual disabilities. Companies were not willing to implement complicated solutions and many people have not been encuraged to apply for other jobs apart from standards such as telefonist or physio therapist etc. Now NVDA gives lots of people the chance to improve professionally and to get high quality access to information for no money. Now children can read almost every book they want on several platforms with NVDA or Voice Over. So it will not be the economical aspect which will drive such products like Jaws to death. It will be the social effects.

 

And if you look at countries which were underdeveloped like 30 years ago (i.e. China), those countries could develop amongst others because people had access to education and information for low prices. This was somehow driven by several development institutions which invested in such countries huge amounts to improve the society. I know it is not the best comparison, but now several really good and motivated people invest their talent, and some of them their money as well, in improving NVDA.

 

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von erik burggraaf
Gesendet: Montag, 2. Oktober 2017 23:51
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

Lots of for proffit companies made free or low cost screen readers.  Serotek for one.  Apple for another.  I'd say both companies were successful to one degree or another.  So, why didn't we see governments lining up to pay for system access?  Well, to a lesser extent some did, but if screen readers cost less, then the funding becomes less and the portfoleos of nondisabled people making big money from accessibility legislation shrink.  We certainly don't want that.  But even at that, system access and the system access network lasted for a very long time, largely on consumer driven support.

NVDA didn't succeed because it was not for proffit.  It succeded because of the dedication of the people who started it, and the following those founders were able to inspire.  It's sustainable because of the people who work on it.  The fact that it is non for proffit gives it certain advantages such as the fact that it can't be subsumed by a for proffit.  Lots of free windows screen readers entered and left the market in the past 10 years.  NVDA is the only one to thrive, much less survive, and it's because of the talendt, and the management.

Then again, the fact that NVDA itself is non for proffit hasn't prevented the organization from accepting grants and sponsorships from for proffit companies, and whatever I may think of those companies individually, the output from those grants contributed to the general effectiveness of NVDA, which lead to more adoption which lead to donation revinue, which lead to more improvements until we have the body of work which now is viable enough to stand up to a commercial product in the vast majority of situations.

So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.  I've heard all the arguments for nearly as long as you have.  I'll allow there was a time when they may have made sense to one degree or another.  Certainly the first opticon and kurzweil reading machine costed enormously more in terms of research and development than say the knfb reader mobile app.  In fact, vast commercial uses for scanning, ocr, text to speech, dictation, and other technologies developed for disability communities are prevailant and highly intergrated into modern society.  Accessibility legislation is between 25 and 50 years old.  Commercial standards for developing things to be accessible are well established and supported by legislation.  Time and talent still cost money, but we stand on the shoulders of giants.  It's not what it was in the late 70's and early 80's.  Completely different situation.

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 5:25:39 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

That is not correct and I've seen that argument many times.  JAWS is expensive because it is a specialized product with a tiny market.  If Windows had the number of users JAWS has, it would be  exorbitantly expensive as well.  It's mass production with enormous customer bases that makes most manufactured products we use inexpensive.  You can argue about whether institutions could cause the price of JAWS to be lower by negotiating, I don't know if the owners of JAWS charge more than they need to to make a product.  But anyone on this list who purchases or has purchased a sophisticated computer program that sells to a very small audience will confirm that such products are very expensive.  Institutions may be bureaucratic but they aren't fools.  Entrepreneurs are creative and inventive.  If it were possible to have a screen-reader with the power and sophistication of JAWS for significantly less, someone would have entered the market at a cheaper price.  They've had more than two decades to do so in the case of Windows screen-readers.  Where are they, or even one?

 

The only way a powerful screen-reader has been developed that is within the reach of a lot of blind people is to completely work outside of the for profit model.  NVDA is free because it is not a for profit product and relies on people working for about minimum wage, grants, and volunteers to develop and create add ons.  Which proves my point.  Someone else did fill the need for a screen-reader for people who can't afford a for profit screen--reader but it was outside of the for profit model.  Entrepreneurs are creative and motivated enough that, as I said, if a for profit screen-reader could be developed  for a significantly cheaper price, it would have been long ago.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 4:03 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

Accessibility laws change the game.  The market for jaws is different from the market of most other products.  The primary target market doesn't actually use the product.  The reason commercial screen readers are sustainable is that governments in developed countrys have legislated that the government must accept the financial cost of communication aids for people with print disabilities as a means of leveling the playing field.  That is why the cost of the tecchnologies has always been out of reach for most blind consumers, and very little to do with the development cost and comparitive small size of the market as most commercial access technologists claim. 

So, there's no evidence to suggest that vfo or any company is planning to jack up prices even higher than they already are, but there are legislative hooks that might allow them to if they wanted.

I really think though that they are battoning down and preparing to ride out the end times with what they have.  The consolidation has pretty much taken place.  A few straglers haven't bought in or bowed out, but they have unique markets of their own.

The government funding that constitutes the primary support for products like jaws is on the severe decline as the use cases for the products over cheeper less specialized alternatives growes less and less by the day.  If the size of the market dictated the price as they always claimed, then considering the dwindling share of the market controlled by commercial AT, it makes sense that the price would go up, especially in the case of VFO's new exclusivity agreements in geographic regions that were either not controlled or controlled by companies that are no more.  The odd thing is, with NVDA distributed free as a noncommercial product, I doubt it falls under the commercial exclusivity agreements anyhow. 

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 4:24:22 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

Why would the owners of JAWS commit suicide or strongly encourage purchasers not to use their product by doing something ridiculous, as you suggest?  They won't.  I don't know if they will try different prices as time goes on to get the most profit from the most or optimum number of sales, but that is different from behaving irrationally.  Is this part of the JAWS is greedy and can charge anything it wants argument?  It doesn't matter in the context of this argument, that I've heard for two decades with no meaningful proof given, whether JAWS is greedy or not.  What matters is that JAWS doesn't exist in a vacuum.  It may charge what the market will bear but it still operates in a market.  If institutions are willing to pay a price, JAWS may decide to charge it.  But that doesn't mean that institutions are irrational.  They aren't going to accept a thousand percent price rise of a product just because JAWS owners decide to try to charge it. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 3:00 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions that deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and here in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS always saw its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the price of JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force educational institutions to go with NVDA.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

The sample size is very small in these surveys,  but they definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised at all to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws useage down.  Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the product is discontinued.  This will help slow the skid of jaws, but I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to NVDA as to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for Many window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that blind users want it more and more.  I have thought for years that 2021 is about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs, particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of tradition going by the board by then.  This is all good for us, and it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or android and or voiceover.

 

Take care




On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

 

hi Bhavya

 

I have been following the surveys after they  survey  has finished.

 

I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users and magnifiers etc.

 

Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of android and apple devices that can go portable.

 

For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if mobile a android device.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,
Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web
accessibility
consultancy organisation, has been conducting an
annual (sometimes
biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts
to gather
statistics
about the usage share of different screen
readers,
technology
(particularly Internet) accessibility trends, etc. so as
to
aid analysts,
researchers, accessibility consultants,
sighted
developers,
and mainstream companies to get a quantified picture
of
the state of the
AT industry.
While
this survey features participation from varied
geographies,
NVDA’s
user base, at least in my personal view, has always
been
understated.
While 8% respondents of the first December 2008
WebAim
survey
reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only increased
to
14% of
respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use NVDA
as
their primary
screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a usage
share
substantially
lower than NVDA’s commercial and more expensive
screen
reading
alternatives.
I
think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in
getting
the word out
about NVDA’s viability and competency  if all
NVDA
community
members, users, testers and other related
parties,
particularly from second and third world developing
regions which
often
remain silent for such surveys but where free and open
source
NVDA makes a
prominent impact, take this survey and contribute
to
letting the world
know about the size and standing of the NVDA
user
base.
The URL of said survey is  https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/
.
It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and
the form was
extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but
filling such
surveys
always brings out useful and reflective data, which, in
turn,
betters AT as
a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take some
time
out for this
survey so that we can make the data truly reflective
of
the
actualities.
Thanks.
P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my
intention to merely
promote this survey.
 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.