Date   

Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

I agree, braille could be used better, its still a good medium as a way for the blind to read like the sighted.

But take it out of school if that now, and the fact is you don't need to use it generally.

I'd like to see it on menus or places where you would read it more naturally rather than taking out my device and looking different.

We also need to learn how to get devices where you can type quieter.

At some university classes and school I had to type in another room because of it being to loud.

And even when I was allowed, the fact is the noise is like a dot matrix I know its my right to be able to use it but at convenience of others.

I am entitled because I am blind but later on I do wander at what they had to put up with.

But you never think about that when you are a kid.

On 4/10/2017 3:06 a.m., Damien Sykes-Lindley wrote:
Hi,
I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for technology. That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had no need to read it, so I never did. Only recently when trying to play a game I realised just how screwed my braille skills actually are.
In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas of work, programming and large calculations being two such areas. On the other hand, try asking for a disability/assistive technology grant over here and see if you can break the record for the longest fight and largest number of letdowns... I've just about given up hope on both the government and the RNIB. Bleh.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message----- From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
to come down and many get those devices the government or private
programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@gmail.com> wrote:
Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the health
insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
person
gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
braille
displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service itself, or
partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
but
on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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Re: Braille, how many use it?

Roger Stewart
 

I'd gladly use a braille display if I could afford one. If the Orbit display had come out as advertised, I might have one of those but that just isn't happening. There's no one here who will pay for anything like this as I'm 70 years old and not a client of any rehab agency or anything like that. Maybe the Chinese will come up with a functioning and affordable display someday.

Roger

On 10/3/2017 8:14 AM, Damien Sykes-Lindley wrote:
Hi,
Braille displays are super expensive. So expensive, in fact, that I'm surprised they're still on the market!
As for me, very naughty me, especially being total, I haven't touched Braille in ten years. Consequently, I've forgotten most of it! I'm a speech user all the way.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message----- From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,

I wouldn't be without Braille personally. You can only tell so much with
speech, unless you turn on formatting and all that jazz.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 03 October 2017 12:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the development
front to make these displays and the entering of the code more intuitive and
better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display on
their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues getting
out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need a second
mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.











.


Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

No and now there has been a user that is selling it because they said it was not for them.

I was going to buy this but it seems to use a simple os, and I am unsure what to do about that.

I was thinking like something like the l braille though to be honest  what I'd like would be a braille keyboard and or querty keyboard and a braille screen you could put on to any computer that could have a ssd in it.

You can get up to 1tb drives with 256-500 being all a standard user would need.

Ofcause thats probably going to sort of cost as much as a good computer but even though that may be expensive.

The future is in mainstream oses or as extra hardware for those.

Using a pc after using my limited keynote in dos and other braille systems it opened my eyes to what I was missing software wise.

The issue I see with a lot of blind accessible special hardware is you can only run software that is accessible.

And while thats fine for the average user if like me you are not and I bet a lot of us are not, we want to fiddle about with our systems, destroy them, screw ourselves over and be free.

Blindy spaciffic devices don't allow us to be free.

Because we are helpless and they need to hold our blind hands.

Thats fine to a point, but you will eventually exhaust the limited featureset and once thats done you may wander is that all.

Its true you can do some gaming, email, and other things but you can't just load a general windows program or whatever on a standard old style device.

At the time I did training with my now dead keynote 18, you got told the basics, the general wordprocessing app, the dos reader, and the extra programs to use for braille translation and wordperfect and that was it.

Fortunately there was dos, I was able to fiddle but I do believe some devices are more restricted than that.

Unless you had an eurika that was which was in unix and could program it and or the bns or something it was still restricted.

If we hope to move forward as a people then we need to make devices that are mainstreamed or at least be able to connect to mainstream tech like a laptop for extra functions.

On 4/10/2017 2:43 a.m., Adriani Botez wrote:
How about orbit reader? It is the cheapest braille display. Did they manage
to start shipping?


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Antony
Stone
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 15:28
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille displays are indeed very expensive to buy new, but they remain
manufactured and available because the majority of purchases are by
employers or government education departments who are required to provide
funding for disabled people under many countries' anti-discrimination laws.

That said, I have had good success buying second-hand displays on eBay,
because no employer or education funder will consider supplying a
second-hand device, but they can still be passed on in a good working
condition after someone leaves their job or comes to the end of their
training.

I do wish lower-cost new Braille displays were available, but so long as the
majority of the customers are organisations which can afford them and don't
question the price, they will continue to pay current prices for them in
just the same way as they pay for Jaws licences, instead of funding the
development of NVDA and then getting as many copies as they like for free
afterwards.


Antony.

On Tuesday 03 October 2017 at 15:14:41, Damien Sykes-Lindley wrote:

Hi,
Braille displays are super expensive. So expensive, in fact, that I'm
surprised they're still on the market!
As for me, very naughty me, especially being total, I haven't touched
Braille in ten years. Consequently, I've forgotten most of it! I'm a
speech user all the way.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,

I wouldn't be without Braille personally. You can only tell so much
with speech, unless you turn on formatting and all that jazz.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 03 October 2017 12:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian
--
"Life is just a lot better if you feel you're having 10 [small] wins a day
rather than a [big] win every 10 years or so."

- Chris Hadfield, former skiing (and ski racing) instructor

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC
me.







Re: Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Of course it is still not working on Open or Libra Office unfortunately. Does anyone know if these programs have scroll bars? I did wonder whether a ascreen reader could check these and try to scroll them in some way to keep it reading.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Thompson" <dmt031073@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA


Yes, I thought that was it and that's what I am using. Thanks for your help.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 5:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA

No, if you are using desktop keyboard layout, it's NVDA+down arrow. NVDA being a modifier key which can be one or all of capslock, insert and extended insert key depending on your personal configuration of keyboard settings.

Cheers

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Thompson
Sent: 3 October 2017 01:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Thank you very very much. What if you are using a desktop. Can you use caplocks plus A?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 7:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA

Do you have selected the laptop keyboard sheme?
If so, the keystroke is CapsLock+A.

Rui


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Dan Thompson
Data: 3 de outubro de 2017 01:18
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: [nvda] Read to end of document not working in NVDA



HI All,

I use to be able to press one of the nvda keys along with down arrow and
text would be read from the cursor’s location to the end of the document.
This stopped a few upgrades ago. I thought it would come back but has not
yet. I explored the menus but can’t find a setting except unchecking
“simple review mode” to try. So I did uncheck the box and nothing really
changed. Does any have any idea how to get the read to end back?



Thanks very much in advance.

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Re: Rumola

 

can I please fet the link fore portable firefox with webvism?

On 10/3/2017 9:40 AM, Mallard wrote:
That never worked for me.


I use Webvisum, but it no longer works with Firefox as of version 53. For this reason, I've kept a portable of version 52, which I use when I need to solve Captchas with Webvisum.


The add-on is still there; it's Firefox that no longer lets us use it.


Should anyone choose to go tthe way I go, I can provide a link to my dropbox with a version of Webvisum that works.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 17:59, Nevzat Adil ha scritto:
Hi everyone,
Do any of you use Rumola, the addon to Firefox that automatically
reads the captia?
I noticed today that mine no longer works.
I went to rumola.com and tried to sign into my account and see if I
can reactivate but that did not work, either.
It has not been updated since 2014 according to their website.
It was a nice little helpful software when encountering captias.
  I would appreciate any comments.
Nevzat





.


Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

As long as braille  output  devices remain out of reach braille will decline in use.

Its important you are right, to your generation and to mine, but I see the time when it will be replaced if we don't watch it.

Even writing styles are changing, we need to make sure that doesn't die to.

Typing is faster than brailling, its faster than writing.

And while the sighted may need to write from time to time.

I can't imagine brailling on my heavy aquard brailler when I can use a computer.

As well as that braille units just braille mostly and no more.

Having used the computer I want to run all my programs, email, cloud, torrents, music, games, and what I want without specialised and limited software.

If we can get more displays on android, apple, windows 10 full, etc then I am all for that.

But not on its own.

I want to be normal as I can.

Spaciffic solutions are fine for the blind up to a point.

However even with the latest smart phones, keynote devices, etc there are still some limits.

On 4/10/2017 2:29 a.m., Nevzat Adil wrote:
Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
to come down and many get those devices the government or private
programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@gmail.com> wrote:
Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the health
insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
person
gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
braille
displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service itself, or
partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
but
on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.










Re: Getting Better Sounding Voices For NVDA

Sarah k Alawami
 

I believe code factory sells them. They are $60 or there abouts.

On Oct 3, 2017, at 12:20 PM, James Robinson <jardatalearningcenter@jardata.biz> wrote:

Hello!

I once saw a link on this list showing where NVDA users could purchase
Eloquence voices to be used on one or three machines. I would like to know
how to get these voices and want to know their cost, as I have trouble
listening to the voices that come with NVDA. Thanks very much for your
help.

Sincerely,

James Robinson




Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

Well I have a boss I do work for in psycology and he worries about braille.

The fact is, well there are 3 facts.

THe major one ofcause well 2 is.

1.  while we can print braille on paper bulky as it is easy enough, we still need the old style analog pins and the like to drive the dots and such.

Eventually something needs to be done.

The other fact is sad but true.

Braille is so yesteryear.

You don't need braille at all, in fact the blind never need braille as long as they have speech and power for devices.

If your deff or loose power for things for a long period its another matter.

Braille books are bulky in paper form.

I do read braille and have been using it since school as well as reading the odd book from time to time.

But braille isn't much use to me anymore.

If we got things working in a modernised environment, fine.

But we need to do it quickly else braille will go the way of the 386 computer, windows xp, win98, and a lot of the manual equipment of yesteryear.

Its not relivent in todays world allready.

If it became as good as say well updated to todays standards for output and input then maybe its got a chance.

On 4/10/2017 2:14 a.m., Damien Sykes-Lindley wrote:
Hi,
Braille displays are super expensive. So expensive, in fact, that I'm surprised they're still on the market!
As for me, very naughty me, especially being total, I haven't touched Braille in ten years. Consequently, I've forgotten most of it! I'm a speech user all the way.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message----- From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,

I wouldn't be without Braille personally.  You can only tell so much with
speech, unless you turn on formatting and all that jazz.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 03 October 2017 12:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the development
front to make these displays and the entering of the code more intuitive and
better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display on
their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues getting
out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need a second
mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.












Getting Better Sounding Voices For NVDA

James Robinson
 

Hello!

I once saw a link on this list showing where NVDA users could purchase
Eloquence voices to be used on one or three machines. I would like to know
how to get these voices and want to know their cost, as I have trouble
listening to the voices that come with NVDA. Thanks very much for your
help.

Sincerely,

James Robinson


Re: Weather Plus Latest Add On doesn't read weather information With Insert + W Key Press On 64 Bit Windows 7 System

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Adriano,


You were correct.  On this old Windows 7 system, I had previously installed Storm Dragon's Weather Add On.  It used the insert + W keystroke to give the current weather conditions.  I disabled this add on and now your more extensive add on works perfectly again.

On 10/3/2017 9:34 AM, Adriano Barbieri via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Ron,

It is not that nvda+w is used by another addon or program?
and the other quick keys work?
Notifies you of any error in the log?

Cheers
Adriano

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 9:56 PM
Subject: [nvda] Weather Plus Latest Add On doesn't read weather information With Insert + W Key Press On 64 Bit Windows 7 System


Hi Group,


I updated the Weather Plus add on for my Windows 7 64 bit machine (my newer system bit the dust and is being repaired) and the insert + W keystroke renders no speech. I can access the add on with the various keystrokes to make changes, but nothing is spoken. All my settings from the previous installation are present, but no speech occurs.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




.


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Update issues on snapshots again

 

I have had this happen with msse and other antivirus, the issue is that so many things are in the background that you don't know when a bit of software decides to do a function.

I get this often with external hard drives.

On my personal win10 devices I just disable autoplay entirely because I can't get to the visual controls and I don't need it.

On the family and networked stations users use it and I need it up.

With the flash sticks I just roodly pull them.

I may damage a stick but so what.

Ofcause thats fine with the small sticks but bigger ones and my hdds I really don't want to just pull.

In most cases I wait for them to eventually stop being used.

But that can take to half an hour at times sometimes accessing them then exiting the file explorer window will solve it.

For files, usually its stuff that can't be deleted, in most cases I just restart the ystem and then you can do it.

Technically there are utilities which can delete things before windows shell starts which seems to be a big issue.

Before windows starts all files have no links to them and can be easily killed, obviously for security and such a user just can't g et access to this, it needs to be done just after the kernal loads but before the shell does.

On 4/10/2017 12:28 a.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Its getting even more complicated now as the same is happening on the portable installs. It seems to me that files in nvda are being held as un renamable even when a different copy of nvda is running, thus when the temp copy of the installer on next or master attempts to rename the old files before deleting them after replacement it simply cannot do so unless its straight after a system restart.

Is this something peculiar to windows 7, is there anything you can think of that might be doing this or what? As it seems to affect this and the other machine in different locations then it looks to me like something is keeping files as in use when they are not.
I'm at a loss to know wheere to proceed with this as onther software that updates behaves as it always used to and if it were a windows issue it would show up elsewhere one would have thought.


I have now restored working by doing resets and running  a third copy to run the instalations of both master and next to make the appropriate versions carefully making sure not to have had that version I'm installing or copying over in that windows session. this unfortunately really means manual download of the installed branch, Master so one can control the  session.
Is there any way to tell which files windows treats as in use?
I did notice a change about when this started by Mick of changing file names to stop the old copies from being used in the new version so that Firefox would not become unusable when nvda updates if it happened to be running at that time. It was around this time things started to misbehave.


Before that could it have been handled differently so that the problem was not noticed?
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues on snapshots again


May be too late to get the original log back, but per
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps if you look in
%temp%, you should find any recent logs which still exist and there may be
something in there.


On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:09 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Further to this, the same problems have occurred today updating to the one
with the slight documentation changes, so the problem still exists.
I had to restart windows to get the  installer to run. It is, as I say not
allowing things to be deleted. Any ideas on what to try in nvda?
Its obibviously a recent issue.

I could completely reinstall but that would be impractical at the moment
due to work.

Besides if its affecting me then when the new version comes out there is
going to be a lot of problems.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io" <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 8:17 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues on snapshots again


Yes this reboot is fine but its hard to replicate the exact conditions you
had the first time certainly not just by reinstalling old version and
updating again seems not to create the issue. it is obviously something
going on which still leaves some files locked. Could the log somehow tell
us which the files are which are causing it. That might suggest the issue
to be fixed. IE could there be circumstances in nvda with another program
running that means the system cannot unhook the files it needs to change?
That was muy feeling when I saw the log but without knowing the files its
a bit like a game of battleships!
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <
quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues on snapshots again


I just installed 14463 on Windows 7, 64-bit, then ran that copy and
upgraded to 14473 and it seems to be working fine for me.

How is yours after a reboot?

Quentin.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Anyone running master having update issues today?

Windows 7 64 just did an update as flagged and it deleted the main files
then fell over with  file in use errors leaving it completely brokeen,
Luckily I do have a bckup portable but that won't install either. I
seem to
feel that something that told NVDA to stop using some old files seems to
have failed.
I will need to reboot the computer and then do a clean install I
suspect.
Info nobody running master as an installed copy is having this issue
then
one has to say its an anomaly here, but I cannot see why it would happen
when the last few updates have gone fine.
Brian

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--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


.


Re: NVDA Country Subgroups

 

Hello Adriani, Vlad and others.
The Romanian community has already a mailing list. This is NVDA-Romanian-comunity@.... We also have a facebook group and a website, www.ro-nvda.tk.
Question for Vlad Dragomir, it's just a curiosity. Are you Romanian? Your name sounds like a Romanian one.
Cheers,
Florian


Re: Braille, how many use it?

Bernd Dorer
 

Hi Brian,

in Germany there are many braille readers so we are happy and look forward to the next nvda releases.

best regards

Bernd Dorer

Am 03.10.2017 um 13:41 schrieb Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io:

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the development front to make these displays and the entering of the code more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues getting out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

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Re: NVDA Country Subgroups

Bernd Dorer
 

Hi Adriani,

there is allready a German nvda mailinglist on ml4free.de

hth Bernd
Am 01.10.2017 um 21:18 schrieb adriani.botez via Groups.Io:

Dear all,

What do you think about the idea of creating subgroups of this NVDA group for each country which has many active users? As of now there are lots of mail lists and platforms worldwide where NVDA users and developers discuss. At a point when there will be an NVDA Add-on store for everyone, does it not make sense to try to bring users and developers worldwide more next to each other? Even though those subgroups would not solve the language problem, they would somehow make people more aware about the international importance of NVDA. I came to this idea because we have a network in germany but not everyone speaks englisch to be able to read anything in the main group. But I am sure that here are also people who speak other languages and would like to talk to NVDA users from those countries.
And in fact, you would have a big platform for discussion instead of hundreeds of mail lists and such.


Best
Adriani


Re: Braille, how many use it?

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Hi Gene,

As a child, my experience was similar to yours.  I found braille slow and uncomfortable.  I was a one handed braille reader which slowed me down further.

As an adult, I'm very greatful for my braille skills such as they are, and refreshable braille I find much more comfortable than paper braille. 

The evidence to support the use of braille as a direct visual medium for the blind has been dresearched, ocumented, and pretty well quantified.  We can always do more to understand the brain, but numerous studies measuring cortexes of blind people in verious situations overwelmingly shows that the visual cortex of people who are blind of all ages and regardless of whether they began sighted or blind  reacts to braille in the same way that that of a sighted person does to print.

The scholarly articles on this abound, but they don't make for great reading unless you're a nuroscientist.  Start with this overview.
https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/brail.html

It's a science article for kids, but it's professionally written, won't insult your inteligence, and makes for more interesting reading than articles from medical and scientific journals.  A lot of the scholarly writings came up for me in a search of "braille visual cortex".  Of course, most of the older ones are at the top, probably because they are sited more often.  Even the abstracts are a snore, but they are all pretty clear that braille has a direct impact on nural vision centres.

Enjoy,

Erik

On October 3, 2017 12:25:17 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

It is a good idea for people who are blinded as adults to learn enough Braille, grade one, to be specific, to label things and organize things.  Children should learn Braille just as sighted children learn print.  But I am unconvinced that the argument that Braille is just like print in terms of everyone who is blind learning it.  That is not a proper analogy. 
 
For one thing, and I haven't seen any research on this but, despite what Braille proponents say, I remain unconvinced that Braille is nearly as good a medium as speech for many blind people in terms of ongoing general use.  I was always annoyingly slow at reading Braille.  Even in my early adult years, I learned Braille as a child, and in my early adult years, I would read about 300 Braille pages a month, I never got faster than about between 180 and 200 words a minute.  Considering that I can listen to speech at between 350 and 400 words a minute with good comprehension, the contrast in efficiency is obvious.  And why didn't my speed increase over time, reading as much Braille as I did for about ten years?  Why do so many blind people I hear read Braille read only about as fast as they speak, resulting in pauses and stumbling over words as they read? 
 
Some people can read Braille very quickly.  My observations and experience cause me to be skeptical that most blind people read faster than about 180 or 200 words per minute. I'm talking about people who learn to read Braille as children at the age sighted children learn to read print.  
 
And reading Braille was always more work and more tiring and fatiguing for me than listening to speech, a lot more so.  Yet I have been innundated with the you should read Braille and with the implied message that if I don't, I am somehow using an inferior medium.  If that's true, then let's get substantive information, real studies of some sort showing that I am wrong in my observations.
 
I said earlier that blind children should learn Braille and they should.  They should use it in school, at least in grammar school so they learn proper spelling, punctuation, and learn to distinguish between words that sound similar or alike and mean different things and are spelled differently.  How many times have I seen blind people write wander instead of wonder?  Just one example. 
 
And obviously, Braille is of vital importance in technical fields.  But the general assumption that Braille is better for blind people as an unqualified generalization for daily and general use, has not been demonstrated to be correct in my observations and experience.  
 
We are blind and, like it or not, being blind means that the analogical equivalent to something sighted people do, Braille to print, is not necessarily better or as good as a specifically blind oriented solution for many uses. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,
I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for technology.
That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had no need to read it,
so I never did. Only recently when trying to play a game I realised just how
screwed my braille skills actually are.
In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas of work,
programming and large calculations being two such areas. On the other hand,
try asking for a disability/assistive technology grant over here and see if
you can break the record for the longest fight and largest number of
letdowns... I've just about given up hope on both the government and the
RNIB. Bleh.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
to come down and many get those devices the government or private
programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@...> wrote:
> Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
> expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
> selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.
>
> Robert Mendoza
>
> On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
>> In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the health
>> insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
>> person
>> gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
>> payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.
>>
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
>> Mallard
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
>> An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?
>>
>> I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
>> braille
>> displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service itself, or
>> partly - depending on the cost of the device.
>>
>>
>> I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
>> but
>> on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
>> position of my workstation.
>>
>>
>> I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
>> support was introduced.
>>
>> Ciao,
>>
>> Ollie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
>>> Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
>>> development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
>>> more intuitive and better.
>>> I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
>>> on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
>>> getting out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
>>> a second mortgage to buy them!
>>>
>>> Just musing that was all.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> bglists@...
>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>> in the display name field.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

 




Re: Braille, how many use it?

Sarah k Alawami
 

I don't have a braille display to set up, but how is NVDA with braille coming along anyway? I heard it was quite good.

On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Moty Azrad <motiaz@...> wrote:

Hi,

I must say that Braille is very very important for me and for everyone who
reads Braille books or other material.
Don't forget blind users that have hearing lost and they must use Braille.
When I read another language, like English that is not my mother tongue - I
enjoy and understand what I read with Braille and I can see the spelling of
each word because this point, is very important for me.
So, I say thanks for NVDA developments that continue to improve support for
the Braille users.

Thanks

moti azrad

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Damien
Sykes-Lindley
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 16:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,
Braille displays are super expensive. So expensive, in fact, that I'm
surprised they're still on the market!
As for me, very naughty me, especially being total, I haven't touched
Braille in ten years. Consequently, I've forgotten most of it! I'm a speech
user all the way.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,

I wouldn't be without Braille personally.  You can only tell so much with
speech, unless you turn on formatting and all that jazz.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 03 October 2017 12:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the development
front to make these displays and the entering of the code more intuitive and
better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display on
their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues getting
out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need a second
mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
















Re: Braille, how many use it?

Moti Azrad
 

Hi,

I must say that Braille is very very important for me and for everyone who
reads Braille books or other material.
Don't forget blind users that have hearing lost and they must use Braille.
When I read another language, like English that is not my mother tongue - I
enjoy and understand what I read with Braille and I can see the spelling of
each word because this point, is very important for me.
So, I say thanks for NVDA developments that continue to improve support for
the Braille users.

Thanks

moti azrad

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Damien
Sykes-Lindley
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 16:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,
Braille displays are super expensive. So expensive, in fact, that I'm
surprised they're still on the market!
As for me, very naughty me, especially being total, I haven't touched
Braille in ten years. Consequently, I've forgotten most of it! I'm a speech
user all the way.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,

I wouldn't be without Braille personally. You can only tell so much with
speech, unless you turn on formatting and all that jazz.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 03 October 2017 12:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the development
front to make these displays and the entering of the code more intuitive and
better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display on
their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues getting
out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need a second
mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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windows 10 ocr?

mattias
 

I see a menu value in NVDA settings menu

Windows 10 ocr

? how to use?

 

Skickades från E-post för Windows 10

 


Re: Rumola

Damien Sykes-Lindley <damien@...>
 

Hi Ollie,
Clarification: The addon perhaps hasn't disappeared, but, at least for me, CAPTCHA solving stopped working even before my account did. Then when I contacted them to ask about my account, the message bounced multiple times, so I assumed that they were closing up shop for whatever reason.
Cheers.
Damien.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mallard
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 5:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Rumola

That never worked for me.


I use Webvisum, but it no longer works with Firefox as of version 53.
For this reason, I've kept a portable of version 52, which I use when I
need to solve Captchas with Webvisum.


The add-on is still there; it's Firefox that no longer lets us use it.


Should anyone choose to go tthe way I go, I can provide a link to my
dropbox with a version of Webvisum that works.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 17:59, Nevzat Adil ha scritto:
Hi everyone,
Do any of you use Rumola, the addon to Firefox that automatically
reads the captia?
I noticed today that mine no longer works.
I went to rumola.com and tried to sign into my account and see if I
can reactivate but that did not work, either.
It has not been updated since 2014 according to their website.
It was a nice little helpful software when encountering captias.
I would appreciate any comments.
Nevzat




Re: Rumola

Chris
 

Still works for me ok

 

Try logging in through the rumola extension rather than the website

 

And If you have any credit, bear in mind that it expires after a certain amount of time regardless of how many credits you have left

That’s all I got good luck

 

 

 

From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: 03 October 2017 16:59
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Rumola

 

Hi everyone,

Do any of you use Rumola, the addon to Firefox that automatically

reads the captia?

I noticed today that mine no longer works.

I went to rumola.com and tried to sign into my account and see if I

can reactivate but that did not work, either.

It has not been updated since 2014 according to their website.

It was a nice little helpful software when encountering captias.

I would appreciate any comments.

Nevzat