Date   

Re: accessible ftp vlient

Tony Ballou
 

Hi,


Try Filezilla. It works great with NVDA. 


Tony

On 9/30/2017 6:33 PM, Richard Kuzma via Groups.Io wrote:

Does anyone know of an accessible ftp client for accessing your website.

Thanks

 



Re: FW: [win10] Audio guide: Windows Insider Preview build 16232 guide posted

Tony Ballou
 

Hi Joseph,


Thanks for this preview.  I recently signed up to the windows insiders group, and am looking to get a copy of the fall creators update. I  went to the install link on the website, and I guess it installs in the background because I can seem to find out if it is installing or not is there a way to tell that you are getting it?  I have several clients that will be upgraded on the 17th when it comes out,  and I kind of want to get the jump on things so that I can be ready for their questions about new changes and what effects they will have on their use of windows 10 with the latest version of NVDA. All help and guidance appreciated my friend. Thanks much.


Tony 


On 7/9/2017 4:07 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi NVDA community,

In case you want to know what’s happening in Windows 10 development (and a treat for those who’d like to hear what Windows OneCore voices sound like), here’s an overview of things included in latest Windows 10 preview build. Enjoy.

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, July 9, 2017 1:01 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] Audio guide: Windows Insider Preview build 16232 guide posted

 

Hi all,

 

Another item in Windows 10 build progression series, this time on build 16232 is now up:

http://www.josephsl.net/files/WinTen%2016232.mp3

 

Topics covered include:

  • My People
  • GPU activity tracking in Task Manager
  • Narrator user guide
  • Brief overview of new braille support improvements
  • Cloud-based image recognition service
  • Always on scan mode
  • Control+Windows+N to open Settings/Ease of Access/Narrator
  • Settings/Cortana category and other changes
  • Settings/System/About and Remote Desktop configuration changes
  • Status messages for individual updates in Windows Update
  • Settings/Privacy/App requested downloads
  • Full screen mode in Edge
  • Changing URL’s of favorites
  • Volume mixer and universal apps
  • Dictating text in edit fields such as Notepad
  • Emoji panel and keyboard-based emoji entry and search
  • Controlled folder access in Windows Defender Security Center

 

Briefly mentioned:

  • Windows Subsystem for Linux does not require developer mode
  • Grouping app windows in Task Manager
  • Fluent design system
  • Mixed reality and teleportation
  • Video playback settings in Settings app
  • Windows 10 Mobile in maintenance mode
  • Windows Insider Program for Windows Server
  • Changes to branch names (e.g. Current Branch is Semi-Annual Pilot)

 

In addition, the following topics could not be covered due to time constraints (today’s audio guide is an hour long one):

  • Input learning in Narrator (Caps lock+1)
  • Full extent of braille options in Narrator
  • Cortana interaction changes
  • OneDrive files on demand
  • Windows Sonic for Headphones (mostly dealing with hardware setup required)
  • Pinning websites in Edge to taskbar
  • Read aloud in PDF’s and books in Edge
  • Power throttling (hardware setup required)
  • Windows Hello (hardware setup required)
  • Beam/Mixer broadcasting (don’t have an active Xbox Live account)

 

Corrections:

  • In the beginning of the guide I state that the last guide was on build 15048, but it was 15042.
  • I wanted to give a word about my impression of Fall Creators Update but ran out of time. Similarly, I could not include upgrade advice for same reasons.

 

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph



Re: Getting Better Sounding Voices For NVDA

Tony Ballou
 

Hi James,


I think it's code factory which offers both eloquence and vocalizer
expressive voices. Go to

http://www.codefactoryglobal.com and see what's available.

Tony

On 10/3/2017 3:20 PM, James Robinson wrote:
Hello!

I once saw a link on this list showing where NVDA users could purchase
Eloquence voices to be used on one or three machines. I would like to know
how to get these voices and want to know their cost, as I have trouble
listening to the voices that come with NVDA. Thanks very much for your
help.

Sincerely,

James Robinson




Re: starting automatically

Tony Ballou
 

Hi Howard,


Go to the NVDA menu and select the preferences sub-menu, and select general.  A dialog box will open, tab to the check box to automatically start NVDA after I log on to windows and hit space on it.  Then tab to the OK button, hit space on that, and that should do it.


Tony

On 10/4/2017 10:27 AM, Howard Traxler wrote:
I'm using NVDA 2017.3, but the user guide says 2017.1.  Updating didn't seem to update the user guide.
 
In the Preferences, general menu dialog, there is no automatic startup checkbox as described in the manual.  How can I get NVDA to start up when windows comes up?
 
Thanks, anybody.
 
Howard


Re: windows 10 ocr?

Tony Ballou
 

Hi there,


If you are running the most recent version of windows, which is the windows creators update version 1703, and have the current version of nvda

which is 17.3, section 9 of the users guide gives detailed instructions about the windows 10 OCR feature and how to set things up. If you are running an earlier version of windows such as 1607, or NVDA version 17.2 or prior, I believe there's a tutorial on how to use the NVDA OCR add on at
 Http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
Hope this helps.

Tony 

On 10/3/2017 1:29 PM, mattias wrote:

I see a menu value in NVDA settings menu

Windows 10 ocr

? how to use?

 

Skickades från E-post för Windows 10

 



Re: NVDA features

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Oh yes set it to none and turn the monitor off, that is the way I work. Screen savers only are worth it if you have a screen to save!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA features


hi.
if you also use speech and need sayAll, just desable screen saver to
sayAll completely works and does not stop reading nvda because
activating of screen saver.
God bless you all.

On 9/30/17, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
HI,

Following on from what others have said, while NVDA itself only does speech
and / or braille output, it does work with the Windows magnifier which is
built into Windows 7. Press WINDOWS+PLUS to start or increase
magnification, WINDOWS+MINUS to decrease magnification, CONTROL+ALT+i to
toggle invert colours and WINDOWS+ESCAPE to exit magnifier.

NVDA can be run in Aero or classic modes of Windows, although if you are
using Windows Magnifier, you will need to be in Aero to get full screen.

Another magnification option is Glass Brick: http://www.glassbrick.org/ it
is built over the Windows magnifier but offers a lot more features and
customisation.

For the mouse pointer, I developed some extra large ones a couple of years
ago you might find useful: http://22point.com.au/cursors.html

One more thing as a low vision user you might find useful with NVDA, is the
"Focus Highlight" addon. It draws a box around whatever control or item
has focus. See:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/focusHighlight.en.html

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 8:10 AM, <ingez@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I am looking into using the software but have couple of questions :



- Does it support full screen magnification ?





- Can I change size of the mouse pointer ?


- Do I have to use Aero theme (under Win 7) or can I continue
using Basic ? If I can use Basic theme will I lose all customizations
(fonts, colors, etc) ?



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: NVDA AND CCleaner No speech on win 7 after clean issue.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well I'm using it on windows 7. Could I ask if its the 64 bit or 32 bit portable version?
I find the 64 bit one actually more reliable, andas long as you do not change the defaults its not mucking anything screenreader like up. I did of course download the version without the malware when prompted.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John from Woodside Apps via Groups.Io" <jjsturt=googlemail.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 12:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA AND CCleaner No speech on win 7 after clean issue.


Hi All
As per subject line suggests I get no speech after a clean
with the CCleaner program.
I have to restart the machine to get the speech back.

NVDA 2017.3
Win 7 Pro 64bit
CCleaner 5. a clean version

I run the cleaner on the default settings.

Any help?
--
John from Woodside Apps. - Accessible Apps and games for mobile devices.
Twitter
https://twitter.com/woodside_apps

Our new game Super Tile Smash
Now available on the App Store!
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/super-tile-smash/id1196714817?mt=8&ign-mpt=uo%3D4
Android FREE version
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=wa.supertilesmash.free
Android PRO version
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=wa.supertilesmash.pro


Re: NVDA AND CCleaner

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

No it can affect speech platform if you go at it too aggressively, but by default its fine. Obviously we have to assume that the original poster did not download an use the release with the embedded malware put in by some disgruntled employee after Avast took them over!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacob Kruger" <jacob@blindza.co.za>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA AND CCleaner


John, what TTS engine/synth are you generally working with?


Ask since CCleaner will, at times, try clean up unnecessary files under %appData%, but, it's never given me any hassles working with eSpeak-ng, etc.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2017/10/04 13:19, John from Woodside Apps via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi All
As per subject line suggests I get no speech after a clean
with the CCleaner program.
I have to restart the machine to get the speech back.

NVDA 2017.3
Win 7 Pro 64bit
CCleaner 5. a clean version

I run the cleaner on the default settings.

Any help?


Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized voice pack cost

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

He last one had plain text at the start actually. I do know that sometimes if you use some company's web mail platforms, they often 'forget' to make a plain text version.

Normally its fine though. I do on old machines read email in plain text as it renders faster and I don't need the links most of the time.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized voice pack cost


It appears that you are sending HTML only versions but I wouldn’t worry about it unless someone complains. My e-mail program reads the messages correctly and since no one has complained, we can assume that others don't have problems reading your messages. If anyone complains, we can address the problem then.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: zahra
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 3:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized voice pack cost


hi gene.
is the way that i send my emails correct?
do i send my emails in the correct way that all people can see?
thanks for your reply.
God bless you!

On 10/2/17, Steve Nutt <steve@comproom.co.uk> wrote:
Not you by the way, Windows 98 machines. Such discussions are a bit moot
now, you can’t compare features like that from a Windows 98 machine, to
Windows 10.



All the best



Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: 02 October 2017 16:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized
voice pack cost



Blimey, talk about dinosaurs. <Smile>.



All the best



Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 02 October 2017 05:53
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized
voice pack cost



I may have been running the feature on a really old Windows 98 machine at
the time so my results may not be relevant. But I hope an interesting
discussion results.



Gene



From: Kwork <mailto:istherelife@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 11:22 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized
voice pack cost



Interesting to know. I would wonder if the lag is still there in this age of
speedier processors, etc. I don't know if it would be worth the trade-off if
it would slow things down too much for on-the-fly filtering.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 8:40 PM

Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized
voice pack cost



That is a useful feature if someone's program uses greater than signs for
quoted material. I don't know how many programs don't use such signs.
Windows Live Mail doesn't and I wonder if Outlook does. If neither of these
programs use such signs, then a good deal of the usefulness of the feature
is defeated. Also, I played with the feature many years ago. I don't
recall if this might have been because I was using a very slow old computer
at the time or not, but my recollection is that it moved through lines
slowly, and thus caused annoying delays while waiting for the unfiltered
material to be found.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Kwork <mailto:istherelife@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 12:46 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized
voice pack cost



For me, it's simple. If there are greater than signs at the top of a
message, or some sort of header indicating that the originally quoted
message is first, I've already lost interest in what the reply is, so I've
already deleted and moved on. If I only got a few emails a day, and/or it
was on a group I would be a moderator of, that would be different. I agree
that a feature like this would be good for NVDA. I never knew WinEyes had
such a feature, and I've never heard of any JFW users talking about it, so
doubt it's there for them.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk <mailto:steve@comproom.co.uk> >
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized
voice pack cost


Hi Sean,

Window-Eyes has a great feature called Line Filter. You can tell it to
ignore all lines with a string of chars at the beginning of the line. So
when anyone bottom posts, I just switch on line filtering and it ignores
lines beginning with the greater than sign.

I don't know if JAWS has it, but it would be nice to have it in NVDA too.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: 28 September 2017 21:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized
voice pack cost

Well I really do wander if they find it easier to bottem post.

Its not blind vs sighted as such its probably the way they like their
screens.

For example I have family which really like their threaded messages
threaded.

They like to see the old messages first so they know what they have sent and

they can't remember what they typed previously.

For us, I guess that would work, except we can't scroll to the start of the

new content as such like this because our software just won't do it in a
easy way.

For the sighted its a quick mouse wheel flip my family do it all the time,
they do it without thinking just like breathing.

For us, we rely on our keyboards and screen readers, and to be honest I
never look at what is below if I don't need to which could be a
disadvantage.

We also have to get used to the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> signs the lower
and lower down we get down the message tree.

So for us top posting is the most accessible.

However we probably do lose some info over what was before.

I can't say I have responded to a message without reading below first.

I never do so I loose things.

For me I respond to something if I know what it is or if its 1-2 days old
maybe but I could be out of thread by the time I respond to a huge email
list.

A lot of techs I know thread and folder cluster their mail.

A few friends don't do this, for myself coming from dos, I read and delete
all my mail.

If its important I save it in a text file with the message in it and
whatever.

If the email database corrupts or the system crashes or something I reformat

and move on.

My data is mostly backed up, it includes text of important files and the
like.

I realise I will get bit in the ass one day but I barely have to deal with
important stuf and now with dropbox it means I can continue as I am till the

world ends.

On the other hand, rarely have I needed the net during a system outage that

is critical.

Or at a critical point.

But I guess I am lucky.

Being a freelance tester means I just don't get the work I usually get and
that means I have time to waste if I so choose which wouldn't be if I had to

bother with critical data all the time.




On 29/09/2017 5:13 a.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I know I have been shoved off the talking newspaper list for this
crime. They are all doo gooders and ex mayors an aldermen trying for
obes I think. grin.
Their loss.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> , putting
'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis Siegel"
<tsiegel@softcon.com <mailto:tsiegel@softcon.com> >
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and
vocalized voice pack cost


Nah, I think it's more related to vi vs. sighted. On all vi lists,
top posting is the thing, on most sighted lists, bottom posting is
it. I've seen folks yelled at multiple times for not bottom posting
on several sighted lists. But on at least one list I'm on,
(thankfully, one I don't post on very often), folks get all bent out
of shape if you top post. It's bottom post, or not at all in their
opinion. A complete waste of time in my opinion, but nobody asked me.

<shrug>



On 9/28/2017 3:32 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I think the problem is, in them older days most lists and Usenet
groups wanted you to bottom post, but that was when people sat down
and edited the quilted threads. There was an RFC about it, but
nowadays, things have gone the other way since most people are low
on time.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> , putting
'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com
<mailto:gsasner@ripco.com> >
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and
vocalized voice pack cost


Please don’t bottom post. Post at the top of the messages. If you
bottom post, people won’t see your reply. They won’t wade through
five or more messages to finally find yours and many people think
you mistakenly sent a blank message.

If you need help in how to top post, ask here.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Amber Gilmore
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 11:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and
vocalized voice pack cost



Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 27, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@comproom.co.uk
<mailto:steve@comproom.co.uk> > wrote:

Hi Amber,

Here you go:-

http://www.comproom.co.uk/product/eloquence-and-vocalizer-expressiv
e-add-on-for-nvda/


By the way, for every copy sold, 10 Euros which is about 8 UK
pounds, or about 15 US dollars, gets donated to NVAccess. Which is
why I'm proud to sell it.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Amber Gilmore
Sent: 27 September 2017 14:50
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and
vocalized voice pack cost

This is to Steve how much are you asking for your nvda and
elouenqecincd elinquence i am in oklahoma he please get back to me,
amber

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 25, 2017, at 4:33 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@comproom.co.uk
<mailto:steve@comproom.co.uk> > wrote:

Hi Jim,

Yes there is a legal add on from Code Factory that comes with both
Eloquence and Vocalizer. Disclaimer: We do sell it. Please feel
free to contact me privately if interested.

We also have SAPI 5 voices for both, again, both perfectly legal.

Thanks.

All the best

Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf
Of The Gamages
Sent: 20 September 2017 08:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and
vocalized voice pack cost

Hello,

Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but surely there cannot be a
genuine NVDA add on for the voices which I wil not mention as they
are a banned topic? Code factory Vocaliser may be legal, but not
the other, I had to pay for my Vocaliser voices and they cost me
about "£70 years ago, these are now available as a stand alone
item and not tied to NVDA.
For those who just cannot afford extra voices, the Microsoft ones
are quite good and are, of course, free with the Microsoft system.

As to the illegal subject, why anyone would want these outdated
voices beats me.
Take care.



Best Regards, Jim.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and
vocalized voice pack cost

Hi,
As the owner of the NVDA add-ons list, I'm considering enacting
address ban if I hear reports of the moderated person jumping over
to the add-ons list to vent frustrations.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Laz
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 11:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and
vocalized voice pack cost

As I stated in an email a few weeks ago when this person started
posting on the list, he will continue posting nonsensical
messages, off topic messages, and violate list rules until he is
removed. He apparently doesn't pay much attentionn to messages in
reply to his questions and will continue repeating things over and
over until stopped. Moderation is the least of possible solutions
to this situation.

Good luck Nimer and Gene!

Laz

On 9/19/17, mr. Chikodinaka Nickarandidum Oguledo
<ochikodinaka@gmail.com <mailto:ochikodinaka@gmail.com> > wrote:
when is the next update for NVDA

On 9/19/17, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@gmail.com
<mailto:nimerjaber1@gmail.com> > wrote:
I will just reiterate that Gene has my full and unqualified
support in this matter and I will be keeping an eye for any
future messages from this individual.

Thanks.

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 1:17 PM Gene <gsasner@ripco.com
<mailto:gsasner@ripco.com> > wrote:

From the moderator:

I don't know why he is doing it and we have no basis to assume
anything.
I doubt it is intentional rudeness. I would say that people
should simply not comment on any post by Mr. Chikodinaka
Nickarandidum Oguledo unless he asks a new and useful question.
Repetitive questions, the same question four times in a month
or even twice in a month or six months, should simply be
ignored.

It is not useful to have a debate on list about Chikodinaka
Nickarandidum Oguledo or his posts. If such unproductive
debates continue, I shall lock all threads where such debates
begin.

If Mr. Chikodinaka Nickarandidum Oguledo is too outrageous, I
shall moderate him. Moderation means that I shall see every
post from him and have to approve each post before it reaches
the list. If I do that, I shall simply not approve repetitive
questions nor questions that in any way, promote sites where
illegal activity occurs. .

I'm explaining all this because Mr. Chikodinaka Nickarandidum
Oguledo sent a post yesterday in which he seemed to indicate
that he didn't know what being moderated means and because
there may be other list members who don't know.

I am not the list owner and if he wishes to deal with this
matter differently, that is what he will do as list owner. I've
stated what I will do unless the owner wishes something
different to be done.

Also, on further consideration, I've changed my mind about how
long moderation will last. It will last at least two months and
whether it is lifted will depend on the kinds of posts Mr.
Chikodinaka Nickarandidum Oguledo sends for approval.


Gene

--
Cordially,

Nimer Jaber

My mission is to bring love and peace to everyone around me with
all tools available to me.
My core values are integrity, innovation, loyalty, excellence,
and 100% personal responsibility.

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
recipient, please notify me via reply email and destroy all
copies of this correspondence. Action taken as a result of this
email or its contents by anyone other than the intended
recipient(s) may result in civil or criminal charges. I have
checked this email and all corresponding attachments for
security threats. However, security of your machine is up to
you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
XP and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(218-606-0475) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!

--
for if you persavear. you will conker never fear. try try try
again





















It gives diffferent prides can you tell me whitch on is my prise,
amber and i did a trial on another site with the same voices
frommmm code factory will the link you sent me let me do it again
cause when i started the trial befor my computer crashed and it was
down so i missed it. Thanks, amber
























--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: starting automatically

Howard Traxler <howard@...>
 


OK, Well, sorry for all this.  I got 2017.3 and now the start automatically boxes are there.  Sure wish it hadn't taken away my addons and configguration.  But all is well now.  And thanks anyway.
 
Howard

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] starting automatically

My mistake.  I thought I updated but the "about" button tells me I'm still in version 1.  I'll try the update again.
Howard
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 9:27 AM
Subject: [nvda] starting automatically

I'm using NVDA 2017.3, but the user guide says 2017.1.  Updating didn't seem to update the user guide.
 
In the Preferences, general menu dialog, there is no automatic startup checkbox as described in the manual.  How can I get NVDA to start up when windows comes up?
 
Thanks, anybody.
 
Howard


Re: starting automatically

Howard Traxler <howard@...>
 


My mistake.  I thought I updated but the "about" button tells me I'm still in version 1.  I'll try the update again.
Howard

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 9:27 AM
Subject: [nvda] starting automatically

I'm using NVDA 2017.3, but the user guide says 2017.1.  Updating didn't seem to update the user guide.
 
In the Preferences, general menu dialog, there is no automatic startup checkbox as described in the manual.  How can I get NVDA to start up when windows comes up?
 
Thanks, anybody.
 
Howard


starting automatically

Howard Traxler <howard@...>
 


I'm using NVDA 2017.3, but the user guide says 2017.1.  Updating didn't seem to update the user guide.
 
In the Preferences, general menu dialog, there is no automatic startup checkbox as described in the manual.  How can I get NVDA to start up when windows comes up?
 
Thanks, anybody.
 
Howard


Re: Braille, how many use it?

brian <sackriderbrian45@...>
 

        Your right Gene buthaving braille would help pass the time.

Brian Sackrider


On 10/3/2017 6:41 PM, Gene wrote:
If all of our technology goes down, youl'll have a lot more to worry about than reading.  You'll be worried about surviving, where to find food and water and how to avoid being attacked if you do have some.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: brian
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

    This argument that we don't need braille is like the argument that
we don't need ham radio or even broadcast radio anymore because of
technology.  Well what if there was a major hak or a disaster that took
out the power grid.  Think about the recient heracanes and radio was
still viable when all other technology was not available.  This could
also be the case for braille.  If all of our high technology goes down
for what ever reason and you don't braille what will you do then/  I
think that every blind person who is able should know grade 2 braille no
exceptions unless you do have a medical condition that prevents you from
being able to read braille.

Brian Sackrider


On 10/3/2017 3:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
> I agree, braille could be used better, its still a good medium as a
> way for the blind to read like the sighted.
>
> But take it out of school if that now, and the fact is you don't need
> to use it generally.
>
> I'd like to see it on menus or places where you would read it more
> naturally rather than taking out my device and looking different.
>
> We also need to learn how to get devices where you can type quieter.
>
> At some university classes and school I had to type in another room
> because of it being to loud.
>
> And even when I was allowed, the fact is the noise is like a dot
> matrix I know its my right to be able to use it but at convenience of
> others.
>
> I am entitled because I am blind but later on I do wander at what they
> had to put up with.
>
> But you never think about that when you are a kid.
>
>
>
>
> On 4/10/2017 3:06 a.m., Damien Sykes-Lindley wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for
>> technology. That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had
>> no need to read it, so I never did. Only recently when trying to play
>> a game I realised just how screwed my braille skills actually are.
>> In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas
>> of work, programming and large calculations being two such areas. On
>> the other hand, try asking for a disability/assistive technology
>> grant over here and see if you can break the record for the longest
>> fight and largest number of letdowns... I've just about given up hope
>> on both the government and the RNIB. Bleh.
>> Cheers.
>> Damien.
>> -----Original Message----- From: Nevzat Adil
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?
>>
>> Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
>> can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
>> print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
>> making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
>> expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
>> to come down and many get those devices the government or private
>> programs, anyway.
>>
>> On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@...> wrote:
>>> Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
>>> expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
>>> selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.
>>>
>>> Robert Mendoza
>>>
>>> On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
>>>> In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the
>>>> health
>>>> insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
>>>> person
>>>> gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
>>>> payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>> Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
>>>> Mallard
>>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
>>>> An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?
>>>>
>>>> I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
>>>> braille
>>>> displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service
>>>> itself, or
>>>> partly - depending on the cost of the device.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
>>>> but
>>>> on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
>>>> position of my workstation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
>>>> support was introduced.
>>>>
>>>> Ciao,
>>>>
>>>> Ollie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha
>>>> scritto:
>>>>> Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
>>>>> development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
>>>>> more intuitive and better.
>>>>> I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille
>>>>> display
>>>>> on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
>>>>> getting out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
>>>>> a second mortgage to buy them!
>>>>>
>>>>> Just musing that was all.
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>> bglists@...
>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>





Re: bug in browsemode

Martin Thomas Swaton
 

Gene,


yeah, I absolutely second all your ideas how to come arround such problems.

sadly to stay with my example, there is really nothing  that repeats and nothing you could search for. just links and non-linked text after eachother


but the reason why I wrote - that I think the block should be read and not "blank" or the first line (which is interchanging) is not the main problem anymore.

At least it should be relyable that non-linked text really is read and not skipped

as otherwise the key "n" is completely useless, as you never know if text will be read or not and you could miss a lot of information this way


cheers

Martin



Am 04.10.2017 um 14:23 schrieb Gene:

I'm not talking about just an element.  I'm saying that often, on web pages, there are words or an uncommon word that appears before the text you want that you can search and repeat search for. 
 
Also, at times, if you search for a word like the, followed by a space, it will take you to the first or second line of text you are looking for.  Perhaps searching for the word a followed by a space might work as well or better at times.  Experimentation may help you decide which to try first.  Then, moving by paragraph may be another alternative.  Before screen-readers could move in all the ways they can now, I experimented with various techniques such as I am discussing and they were very useful.  Such techniques aren't taught now and that is a real detriment, making people dependent, with no alternative, on web designers following good design.  The more some designers use accessibility practices and the less people are taught how not to navigate if such are not present, the worse people will do on unfriendly pages.  I don't have much opinion about the changes you want except that perhaps, if they are made available, the user should be able to configure them.  But for now, I'm presenting alternativbes in case they help you or others.  If NVDA puts out a document specifically on INternet use, I think suggestions such as mine should be incorporated to help with unfriendly pages.
 
A responsible mobility teacher would never teach people how to travel only in areas where stop lights have signals.  A lot don't and the same applies to the Internet. 
Gene
----- Original M3essage -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode

hi everybody,


@gene the skipped block was exactly the one I mentioned in my example
"haha and the next line with just now and so on"

so it is not a really short block, as it has two lines and some words in
the second line.


this block must not be skipped


@brian yes I guess it is. firefox did update some days ago and made me
switch over from my old screenreader to nvda for every day use. until
now i was switching between the two screenreaders regularly. now i am
using nvda all the time and because of that try to improve the workflow.

:-)


@zahra thanks again, I guess there are more than we, that would like
this behaviour and more users that are facing that "blank" problem when
using "n" but did not realice it really.


@gene it is not possible to use some other shortcut in many cases,
because pages often only have link and non-linked text and no other
elements that could be used  to jump to the next object/area of interest.


e.g. in the example of the facebook messages page I gave. But also on
many other webpages or rss feeds to read news, where the non-linked text
block is the only block that exists after the links above it.


so a relyable jumping to non-linked text would be really important.

As I missed a lot of text in the last few days because of this bug, that
nvda is not reading every unlinked txt


cheers

Martin



Am 04.10.2017 um 09:23 schrieb zahra:
> hello martin i completely agree with you i also love to hear all of
> the content of one object not only the first line.
>
> i also agree with you in your sentences
>
> if this is nothing everyone sees this way and wants to have to be able
> to read more comfortable, why not add a checkbox in the settings:
> "read whole object when jumped to"
> then everybody could decide to hear only the first line, as it works
> now, or the whole textblock/list/...
>
> i tried n twice and nvda only says blank in the messages which i
> recieve in my gmail.
> i cant understand the reason for my problem.
>
> God bless you.
>
> On 10/4/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> <bglists@...> wrote:
>> Is this the new 64 bit version of Firefox by any chance?
>>   Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Martin Thomas Swaton" <list@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 4:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode
>>
>>
>> Hi once more
>>
>>
>> no I found out that there not even have to be special characters in the
>> non-linked-textblock and nvda still does ignore/skip some blocks.
>>
>>
>> currently I had a conversation that looked like that:
>>
>>
>> link name1
>>
>> textline1
>>
>> Just now
>> link name2
>>
>> haha
>> Just nowSent from Web
>> link name1
>>
>> textline2
>>
>>
>> where textline 1 and 2 are read by pressing "n" and the "haha" block is
>> simply ignored allthough it is placed between two link lines.
>>
>> I think this is not as expected.
>>
>> cheers
>> Martin
>>
>> Am 03.10.2017 um 00:19 schrieb Martin Thomas Swaton:
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 03.10.2017 um 00:04 schrieb Quentin Christensen:
>>>> Just to clarify, is it treating the smiley emoticon as a graphc (and
>>>> therefore the text before is one nonlinked text element, then the
>>>> graphic element, then another nonlinked text element)?
>>>>
>>> no, it really is just text.
>>> but I am not sure how consistent this behaves.
>>>
>>> had the same with "hm..."
>>> but only further down in the thread, when it got up in the thread it
>>> was recognized as text (non linked)
>>>
>>> so there might be a second trigger, that I could not figure out until
>>> now.
>>>
>>> so fact is, if there are some special characters (not grafical items,
>>> just text) it may be handled as something else than "not linked text".
>>>
>>>
>>> cheers
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Gene <gsasner@...
>>>> <mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>      Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.
>>>>      How does n know what you want? You often intentionally want to
>>>>      use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want
>>>>      to hear the block you have used the command to skip to. You can
>>>>      make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n
>>>>      should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading. But
>>>>      having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed
>>>>      again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea. N does one
>>>>      thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.
>>>>      Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered
>>>>      as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
>>>>      Gene
>>>>      ----- Original Message -----
>>>>      *From:* Martin Thomas Swaton <mailto:list@...>
>>>>      *Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
>>>>      *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>      *Subject:* [nvda] bug in browsemode
>>>>
>>>>      Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the
>>>>      browsemode.
>>>>
>>>>      using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a
>>>>      website
>>>>      does not work correctly when there are special characters in a
>>>>      text line.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      steps to reproduce:
>>>>
>>>>      e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name
>>>>
>>>>      to open a thread.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      if you type "*smile*"
>>>>
>>>>      or similar on a line
>>>>
>>>>      this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to
>>>>      the next
>>>>      "normal" textline.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text
>>>>      because
>>>>      of this bug.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is
>>>>      read on
>>>>      this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of
>>>>      text
>>>>      and does not read the rest of the current block
>>>>
>>>>      because of this second block you always only hear the first line
>>>>      of a
>>>>      textblock when using "n"
>>>>
>>>>      so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
>>>>      line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts
>>>>      to read
>>>>      on, which does not make any sense.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      cheers
>>>>
>>>>      Martin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Quentin Christensen
>>>> Training and Support Manager
>>>>
>>>> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
>>>> available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>
>>>> www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>






Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Hi Randy,

On October 3, 2017 11:54:34 PM "Randy Barnett" <randy@...> wrote:

Jaws has gone down in price over the years.


I'll give you this.  Looking at the freedom scientific website, I can see that the home edition stands at $900, and the professional stands at $1100.  These prices are about 2 or 3 hundred dollars cheeper than when I last had ocasion to keep track some four years ago.  I guess that's about a 20% nock off.  If it doesn't seem like much, that's because 9 c's is far out of reach of the home user.  IE, government is still the primary target market for this product and I believe all my former arguments to retain validity. 
FS has been fairly competative on hardware pricing I will give them that.  I don't like most of their hardware, but I know many people who do and the price points make it attractive to both those who use it and those who pay.  Of course, people who use fs hardware naturally tend to gravitate to fs software and vice versa.  This is certainly not always the case, but I see it often. 

Even more if you figure in
inflation. It has not gone up at all. Nor is it likely too.

No, I don't buy the inflation bit either, not considering the take home of the top brass at VFO.  The pricing includes all overhead including reasonable inflation, so no.  Plus, we're still debunking the research and development argument.  Each release of jaws does not require the scratch construction of a new speech synthesizer, video display chain driver, and accessibility api among other core functions.  Programmers are talented people who diserve to be paid accordingly, but the scale of the research required to maintain jaws now is nowhere near on the scale it would have been in the late 90's when there were no such things as accessibility standards.

Also, Gene touched on it and others may have too.  They're not just selling jaws.  They're selling training at a premium.  I've seen quotes for scripting ranging from $150 per work hour, to $150 per code line.  I'm working on a human rights employment case right now and just to get an audit of what needs to be fixed in this one company from an accessibility consultant is going to cost $15000.  Just to find out what's wrong.  Now, VFO owns one of the supposed leading consulting firms in this area, which means they can test with only jaws, and tout scripting at a premium.  Also, you notice, they don't tell you how much it costs for remote access anymore?  The ominous, "call for pricing".  Let's not waste any clean-x on VFO's proffit margin shall we.

I am not a


big fan of VFO and criticize it often but they are like any other
specialized software. Have you ever price CAD, Audio design, CNC
mapping  and other similar software? they far exceed the cost of Jaws.

Nop, Gene tried this one too, and I didn't have the time to address it but lets just say... No.  If I buy jaws,  it's money spent playing catch up.  There is no doubt the benefits of hiring blind employees.  It's the law, and I need to comply.  There are lots of perripheral benefits, but no direct cost recovery.  I mearly pay to supplement what I already have.  IE, I have a great employee and an inaccessible workplace and jaws glues the two together.  But I might be able to find another great employee who doesn't need jaws, and unless I'm planning to start a sideline in some area of accessibility work, I'm not seeing  a direct return on my jaws or ansilary services like scripting.

The argument holds less water in the case of retirees who go blind later in life or other home based use cases.  How many regular people have autocad in their house in case they want to doodle?

If I'm an engineer, I buy autocad.  It is crutial to my job.  It accellerates my workflow and directly earnes me money.  If I had a professional recording studio, I'd pay top dollar for protools.  Thousands or 10's of thousands of dollars for a licence is nothing, because knowledge and use of these tools generates direct return on investment in the millians or greater.  Jaws does not offer anything close to that, so there's no comparison to be made at all.

Do I want cheaper Jaws? Of course who wants to pay more for anything!
Dont forget Jaws was providing access long before anyone else and it was
very good access at that. It has taken over 20years for someone to
provide a no cost alternative for the PC.

On 10/3/2017 7:58 PM, Gene wrote:
> It should be pointed out that System Access isn't at all equivalent to
> JAWS or Window-eyes. It cost less because it was much less capable and
> didn't have to work with nearly as many programs.  And it was often
> purchased, not as a standalone product, but with the SAM Network.  I
> don't know if I have the name just right.  But it could be purchased
> either alone or as an integrated product and I wouldn't be surprised
> if a lot or most purchasers purchased the whole package, which may
> have further led to lowering costs.  Agencies wouldn't have purchased
> it in general because their thrust was employment and System Access
> wasn't intended as an employment product.
> It was intended to give Internet Access, access to certain e-mail
> programs and to simple word processing.  It cost about half as much as
> JAWS and Window-eyes and it was perhaps one-third as powerful.
> Around 2000, whoever owned JAWS at that time attempted to address the
> affordability problem by making a product, Connect Outloud.  I believe
> you could buy it and it also came, bundled for free with Openbook. 
> What I heard when it was discontinued after perhaps two or three years
> was that there wasn't enough demand to justify continuing it.
> It provided Internet access, access to Winamp, Outlook Express,
> Wordpad, and it may have provided access to one or two other programs.
> I'm not sure why it wasn't popular at the time, given the number of
> home users who didn't need a powerful screen-reader and the price of
> JAWS and Window-eyes and, as I recall, it was before System Access.
> But those who insist on viewing whoever owns JAWS throughout its
> history as predators, perhaps they should consider this information.
> As far as whether HJAWs developers do enough work to justify the price
> currently, I don't know.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@...>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 6:08 PM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The
> Word Out About NVDA
>
> Great post Eric. I wasn't around in the 70's or didn't know jack horse
> maneur about AT. Viva la NVDA!
>
>
> On 10/2/2017 5:50 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>>
>> Lots of for proffit companies made free or low cost screen readers.
>> Serotek for one.  Apple for another.  I'd say both companies were
>> successful to one degree or another.  So, why didn't we see
>> governments lining up to pay for system access?  Well, to a lesser
>> extent some did, but if screen readers cost less, then the funding
>> becomes less and the portfoleos of nondisabled people making big
>> money from accessibility legislation shrink.  We certainly don't want
>> that.  But even at that, system access and the system access network
>> lasted for a very long time, largely on consumer driven support.
>>
>> NVDA didn't succeed because it was not for proffit.  It succeded
>> because of the dedication of the people who started it, and the
>> following those founders were able to inspire. It's sustainable
>> because of the people who work on it. The fact that it is non for
>> proffit gives it certain advantages such as the fact that it can't be
>> subsumed by a for proffit.  Lots of free windows screen readers
>> entered and left the market in the past 10 years.  NVDA is the only
>> one to thrive, much less survive, and it's because of the talendt,
>> and the management.
>>
>> Then again, the fact that NVDA itself is non for proffit hasn't
>> prevented the organization from accepting grants and sponsorships
>> from for proffit companies, and whatever I may think of those
>> companies individually, the output from those grants contributed to
>> the general effectiveness of NVDA, which lead to more adoption which
>> lead to donation revinue, which lead to more improvements until we
>> have the body of work which now is viable enough to stand up to a
>> commercial product in the vast majority of situations.
>>
>> So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.  I've heard all the
>> arguments for nearly as long as you have.  I'll allow there was a
>> time when they may have made sense to one degree or another. 
>> Certainly the first opticon and kurzweil reading machine costed
>> enormously more in terms of research and development than say the
>> knfb reader mobile app.  In fact, vast commercial uses for scanning,
>> ocr, text to speech, dictation, and other technologies developed for
>> disability communities are prevailant and highly intergrated into
>> modern society.  Accessibility legislation is between 25 and 50 years
>> old.  Commercial standards for developing things to be accessible are
>> well established and supported by legislation.  Time and talent still
>> cost money, but we stand on the shoulders of giants.  It's not what
>> it was in the late 70's and early 80's.  Completely different situation.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>> On October 2, 2017 5:25:39 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:
>>
>>> That is not correct and I've seen that argument many times.  JAWS is
>>> expensive because it is a specialized product with a tiny market. 
>>> If Windows had the number of users JAWS has, it would be 
>>> exorbitantly expensive as well.  It's mass production with enormous
>>> customer bases that makes most manufactured products we use
>>> inexpensive. You can argue about whether institutions could cause
>>> the price of JAWS to be lower by negotiating, I don't know if the
>>> owners of JAWS charge more than they need to to make a product.  But
>>> anyone on this list who purchases or has purchased a sophisticated
>>> computer program that sells to a very small audience will confirm
>>> that such products are very expensive. Institutions may be
>>> bureaucratic but they aren't fools.  Entrepreneurs are creative and
>>> inventive.  If it were possible to have a screen-reader with the
>>> power and sophistication of JAWS for significantly less, someone
>>> would have entered the market at a cheaper price.  They've had more
>>> than two decades to do so in the case of Windows screen-readers. 
>>> Where are they, or even one?
>>> The only way a powerful screen-reader has been developed that is
>>> within the reach of a lot of blind people is to completely work
>>> outside of the for profit model.  NVDA is free because it is not a
>>> for profit product and relies on people working for about minimum
>>> wage, grants, and volunteers to develop and create add ons.  Which
>>> proves my point.  Someone else did fill the need for a screen-reader
>>> for people who can't afford a for profit screen--reader but it was
>>> outside of the for profit model.  Entrepreneurs are creative and
>>> motivated enough that, as I said, if a for profit screen-reader
>>> could be developed  for a significantly cheaper price, it would have
>>> been long ago.
>>> Gene
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* erik burggraaf <mailto:erik@...>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 4:03 PM
>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting
>>> The Word Out About NVDA
>>>
>>> Accessibility laws change the game.  The market for jaws is
>>> different from the market of most other products. The primary target
>>> market doesn't actually use the product.  The reason commercial
>>> screen readers are sustainable is that governments in developed
>>> countrys have legislated that the government must accept the
>>> financial cost of communication aids for people with print
>>> disabilities as a means of leveling the playing field.  That is why
>>> the cost of the tecchnologies has always been out of reach for most
>>> blind consumers, and very little to do with the development cost and
>>> comparitive small size of the market as most commercial access
>>> technologists claim.
>>>
>>> So, there's no evidence to suggest that vfo or any company is
>>> planning to jack up prices even higher than they already are, but
>>> there are legislative hooks that might allow them to if they wanted.
>>>
>>> I really think though that they are battoning down and preparing to
>>> ride out the end times with what they have.  The consolidation has
>>> pretty much taken place.  A few straglers haven't bought in or bowed
>>> out, but they have unique markets of their own.
>>>
>>> The government funding that constitutes the primary support for
>>> products like jaws is on the severe decline as the use cases for the
>>> products over cheeper less specialized alternatives growes less and
>>> less by the day.  If the size of the market dictated the price as
>>> they always claimed, then considering the dwindling share of the
>>> market controlled by commercial AT, it makes sense that the price
>>> would go up, especially in the case of VFO's new exclusivity
>>> agreements in geographic regions that were either not controlled or
>>> controlled by companies that are no more.  The odd thing is, with
>>> NVDA distributed free as a noncommercial product, I doubt it falls
>>> under the commercial exclusivity agreements anyhow.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>> On October 2, 2017 4:24:22 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why would the owners of JAWS commit suicide or strongly encourage
>>>> purchasers not to use their product by doing something ridiculous,
>>>> as you suggest? They won't.  I don't know if they will try
>>>> different prices as time goes on to get the most profit from the
>>>> most or optimum number of sales, but that is different from
>>>> behaving irrationally.  Is this part of the JAWS is greedy and can
>>>> charge anything it wants argument?  It doesn't matter in the
>>>> context of this argument, that I've heard for two decades with no
>>>> meaningful proof given, whether JAWS is greedy or not.  What
>>>> matters is that JAWS doesn't exist in a vacuum.  It may charge what
>>>> the market will bear but it still operates in a market.  If
>>>> institutions are willing to pay a price, JAWS may decide to charge
>>>> it.  But that doesn't mean that institutions are irrational. They
>>>> aren't going to accept a thousand percent price rise of a product
>>>> just because JAWS owners decide to try to charge it.
>>>> Gene
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* Sky Mundell <mailto:skyt@...>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 3:00 PM
>>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting
>>>> The Word Out About NVDA
>>>>
>>>> I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions that
>>>> deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and here
>>>> in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them
>>>> embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS always saw
>>>> its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main
>>>> competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the price of
>>>> JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force
>>>> educational institutions to go with NVDA.
>>>>
>>>> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf
>>>> Of *erik burggraaf
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
>>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting
>>>> The Word Out About NVDA
>>>>
>>>> The sample size is very small in these surveys,  but they
>>>> definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised at all
>>>> to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws useage
>>>> down.  Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the
>>>> product is discontinued.  This will help slow the skid of jaws, but
>>>> I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to NVDA as
>>>> to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for Many
>>>> window-eyes users.
>>>>
>>>> Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal
>>>> playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support
>>>> moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that blind
>>>> users want it more and more.  I have thought for years that 2021 is
>>>> about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs,
>>>> particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of
>>>> tradition going by the board by then.  This is all good for us, and
>>>> it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we
>>>> can all see happening around us.
>>>>
>>>> Have fun,
>>>>
>>>> Erik
>>>>
>>>> On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami"
>>>> <marrie12@... <mailto:marrie12@...>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see
>>>>     this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or
>>>>     android and or voiceover.
>>>>
>>>>     Take care
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand
>>>>     <hurrikennyandopo@...
>>>>     <mailto:hurrikennyandopo@...>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     hi Bhavya
>>>>
>>>>     I have been following the surveys after they  survey  has finished.
>>>>
>>>>     I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have
>>>>     been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users
>>>>     and magnifiers etc.
>>>>
>>>>     Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of
>>>>     android and apple devices that can go portable.
>>>>
>>>>     For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if
>>>>     mobile a android device.
>>>>
>>>>     Gene nz
>>>>
>>>>     On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         Dear all,
>>>>
>>>>         Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web accessibility
>>>>
>>>>         consultancy organisation, has been conducting an annual
>>>>         (sometimes
>>>>
>>>>         biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts to
>>>>         gather
>>>>
>>>>         statistics about the usage share of different screen readers,
>>>>
>>>>         technology (particularly Internet) accessibility trends,
>>>>         etc. so as to
>>>>
>>>>         aid analysts, researchers, accessibility consultants, sighted
>>>>
>>>>         developers, and mainstream companies to get a quantified
>>>>         picture of
>>>>
>>>>         the state of the AT industry.
>>>>
>>>>         While this survey features participation from varied
>>>>         geographies,
>>>>
>>>>         NVDA’s user base, at least in my personal view, has always been
>>>>
>>>>         understated. While 8% respondents of the first December
>>>>         2008 WebAim
>>>>
>>>>         survey reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only
>>>>         increased to
>>>>
>>>>         14% of respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use
>>>>         NVDA as
>>>>
>>>>         their primary screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a
>>>>         usage share
>>>>
>>>>         substantially lower than NVDA’s commercial and more
>>>>         expensive screen
>>>>
>>>>         reading alternatives.
>>>>
>>>>         I think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in
>>>>         getting
>>>>
>>>>         the word out about NVDA’s viability and competency  if all NVDA
>>>>
>>>>         community members, users, testers and other related parties,
>>>>
>>>>         particularly from second and third world developing regions
>>>>         which
>>>>
>>>>         often remain silent for such surveys but where free and
>>>>         open source
>>>>
>>>>         NVDA makes a prominent impact, take this survey and
>>>>         contribute to
>>>>
>>>>         letting the world know about the size and standing of the
>>>>         NVDA user
>>>>
>>>>         base.
>>>>
>>>>         The URL of said survey is
>>>>         https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/
>>>>
>>>>         .
>>>>
>>>>         It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and the
>>>>         form was
>>>>
>>>>         extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but
>>>>         filling such
>>>>
>>>>         surveys always brings out useful and reflective data,
>>>>         which, in turn,
>>>>
>>>>         betters AT as a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take
>>>>         some time
>>>>
>>>>         out for this survey so that we can make the data truly
>>>>         reflective of
>>>>
>>>>         the actualities.
>>>>
>>>>         Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>         P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my
>>>>         intention to merely
>>>>
>>>>         promote this survey.
>>>>
>>>>     --
>>>>     Image NVDA certified expert
>>>>
>>>>     Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness
>>>>     related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
>>>>     <http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/> Regardless of where you
>>>>     are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you
>>>>     can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their
>>>>     computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to
>>>>     you please visit
>>>>     http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
>>>>     (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified
>>>>     expert near you, please visit the following link
>>>>     https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page
>>>>     contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from
>>>>     around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA
>>>>     expert exam.
>>>>
>
>

--
Sincereley: Randy Barnett
Owner of Soundtique.
707-502-5575
1897 SE Dr.
Grants Pass, Or. 97526


Re: Managing Servers Remotely

helenc317@...
 

Thanks for the responses. They are all running windows server 2016, and I use remote desktop to connect to them.

Sarah, interesting thought. I'll look into ssh as an option.


Re: bug in browsemode

Gene
 

I'm not talking about just an element.  I'm saying that often, on web pages, there are words or an uncommon word that appears before the text you want that you can search and repeat search for. 
 
Also, at times, if you search for a word like the, followed by a space, it will take you to the first or second line of text you are looking for.  Perhaps searching for the word a followed by a space might work as well or better at times.  Experimentation may help you decide which to try first.  Then, moving by paragraph may be another alternative.  Before screen-readers could move in all the ways they can now, I experimented with various techniques such as I am discussing and they were very useful.  Such techniques aren't taught now and that is a real detriment, making people dependent, with no alternative, on web designers following good design.  The more some designers use accessibility practices and the less people are taught how not to navigate if such are not present, the worse people will do on unfriendly pages.  I don't have much opinion about the changes you want except that perhaps, if they are made available, the user should be able to configure them.  But for now, I'm presenting alternativbes in case they help you or others.  If NVDA puts out a document specifically on INternet use, I think suggestions such as mine should be incorporated to help with unfriendly pages.
 
A responsible mobility teacher would never teach people how to travel only in areas where stop lights have signals.  A lot don't and the same applies to the Internet. 
Gene
----- Original M3essage -----

Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode

hi everybody,


@gene the skipped block was exactly the one I mentioned in my example
"haha and the next line with just now and so on"

so it is not a really short block, as it has two lines and some words in
the second line.


this block must not be skipped


@brian yes I guess it is. firefox did update some days ago and made me
switch over from my old screenreader to nvda for every day use. until
now i was switching between the two screenreaders regularly. now i am
using nvda all the time and because of that try to improve the workflow.

:-)


@zahra thanks again, I guess there are more than we, that would like
this behaviour and more users that are facing that "blank" problem when
using "n" but did not realice it really.


@gene it is not possible to use some other shortcut in many cases,
because pages often only have link and non-linked text and no other
elements that could be used  to jump to the next object/area of interest.


e.g. in the example of the facebook messages page I gave. But also on
many other webpages or rss feeds to read news, where the non-linked text
block is the only block that exists after the links above it.


so a relyable jumping to non-linked text would be really important.

As I missed a lot of text in the last few days because of this bug, that
nvda is not reading every unlinked txt


cheers

Martin



Am 04.10.2017 um 09:23 schrieb zahra:
> hello martin i completely agree with you i also love to hear all of
> the content of one object not only the first line.
>
> i also agree with you in your sentences
>
> if this is nothing everyone sees this way and wants to have to be able
> to read more comfortable, why not add a checkbox in the settings:
> "read whole object when jumped to"
> then everybody could decide to hear only the first line, as it works
> now, or the whole textblock/list/...
>
> i tried n twice and nvda only says blank in the messages which i
> recieve in my gmail.
> i cant understand the reason for my problem.
>
> God bless you.
>
> On 10/4/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> <bglists@...> wrote:
>> Is this the new 64 bit version of Firefox by any chance?
>>   Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Martin Thomas Swaton" <list@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 4:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode
>>
>>
>> Hi once more
>>
>>
>> no I found out that there not even have to be special characters in the
>> non-linked-textblock and nvda still does ignore/skip some blocks.
>>
>>
>> currently I had a conversation that looked like that:
>>
>>
>> link name1
>>
>> textline1
>>
>> Just now
>> link name2
>>
>> haha
>> Just nowSent from Web
>> link name1
>>
>> textline2
>>
>>
>> where textline 1 and 2 are read by pressing "n" and the "haha" block is
>> simply ignored allthough it is placed between two link lines.
>>
>> I think this is not as expected.
>>
>> cheers
>> Martin
>>
>> Am 03.10.2017 um 00:19 schrieb Martin Thomas Swaton:
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 03.10.2017 um 00:04 schrieb Quentin Christensen:
>>>> Just to clarify, is it treating the smiley emoticon as a graphc (and
>>>> therefore the text before is one nonlinked text element, then the
>>>> graphic element, then another nonlinked text element)?
>>>>
>>> no, it really is just text.
>>> but I am not sure how consistent this behaves.
>>>
>>> had the same with "hm..."
>>> but only further down in the thread, when it got up in the thread it
>>> was recognized as text (non linked)
>>>
>>> so there might be a second trigger, that I could not figure out until
>>> now.
>>>
>>> so fact is, if there are some special characters (not grafical items,
>>> just text) it may be handled as something else than "not linked text".
>>>
>>>
>>> cheers
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Gene <gsasner@...
>>>> <mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>      Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.
>>>>      How does n know what you want? You often intentionally want to
>>>>      use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want
>>>>      to hear the block you have used the command to skip to. You can
>>>>      make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n
>>>>      should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading. But
>>>>      having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed
>>>>      again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea. N does one
>>>>      thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.
>>>>      Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered
>>>>      as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
>>>>      Gene
>>>>      ----- Original Message -----
>>>>      *From:* Martin Thomas Swaton <mailto:list@...>
>>>>      *Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
>>>>      *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>      *Subject:* [nvda] bug in browsemode
>>>>
>>>>      Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the
>>>>      browsemode.
>>>>
>>>>      using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a
>>>>      website
>>>>      does not work correctly when there are special characters in a
>>>>      text line.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      steps to reproduce:
>>>>
>>>>      e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name
>>>>
>>>>      to open a thread.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      if you type "*smile*"
>>>>
>>>>      or similar on a line
>>>>
>>>>      this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to
>>>>      the next
>>>>      "normal" textline.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text
>>>>      because
>>>>      of this bug.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is
>>>>      read on
>>>>      this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of
>>>>      text
>>>>      and does not read the rest of the current block
>>>>
>>>>      because of this second block you always only hear the first line
>>>>      of a
>>>>      textblock when using "n"
>>>>
>>>>      so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
>>>>      line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts
>>>>      to read
>>>>      on, which does not make any sense.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      cheers
>>>>
>>>>      Martin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Quentin Christensen
>>>> Training and Support Manager
>>>>
>>>> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
>>>> available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>
>>>> www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>





Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized voice pack cost

Gene
 

It appears that you are sending HTML only versions but I wouldn’t worry about it unless someone complains.  My e-mail program reads the messages correctly and since no one has complained, we can assume that others don't have problems reading your messages.  If anyone complains, we can address the problem then.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: zahra
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 3:15 AM
Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized voice pack cost

hi gene.
is the way that i send my emails correct?
do i send my emails in the correct way that all people can see?
thanks for your reply.
God bless you!

On 10/2/17, Steve Nutt <steve@...> wrote:
> Not you by the way, Windows 98 machines.  Such discussions are a bit moot
> now, you can’t compare features like that from a Windows 98 machine, to
> Windows 10.
>
>
>
> All the best
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
> Nutt
> Sent: 02 October 2017 16:45
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized
> voice pack cost
>
>
>
> Blimey, talk about dinosaurs. <Smile>.
>
>
>
> All the best
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
> Sent: 02 October 2017 05:53
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized
> voice pack cost
>
>
>
> I may have been running the feature on a really old Windows 98 machine at
> the time so my results may not be relevant.  But I hope an interesting
> discussion results.
>
>
>
> Gene
>
>
>
> From: Kwork <mailto:istherelife@...>
>
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 11:22 PM
>
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>
> Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized
> voice pack cost
>
>
>
> Interesting to know. I would wonder if the lag is still there in this age of
> speedier processors, etc. I don't know if it would be worth the trade-off if
> it would slow things down too much for on-the-fly filtering.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
>
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 8:40 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized
> voice pack cost
>
>
>
> That is a useful feature if someone's program uses greater than signs for
> quoted material.  I don't know how many programs don't use such signs.
> Windows Live Mail doesn't and I wonder if Outlook does.  If neither of these
> programs use such signs, then a good deal of the usefulness of the feature
> is defeated.  Also, I played with the feature many years ago.  I don't
> recall if this might have been because I was using a very slow old computer
> at the time or not, but my recollection is that it moved through lines
> slowly, and thus caused annoying delays while waiting for the unfiltered
> material to be found.
>
>
>
> Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Kwork <mailto:istherelife@...>
>
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 12:46 PM
>
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>
> Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized
> voice pack cost
>
>
>
> For me, it's simple. If there are greater than signs at the top of a
> message, or some sort of header indicating that the originally quoted
> message is first, I've already lost interest in what the reply is, so I've
> already deleted and moved on. If I only got a few emails a day, and/or it
> was on a group I would be a moderator of, that would be different. I agree
> that a feature like this would be good for NVDA. I never knew WinEyes had
> such a feature, and I've never heard of any JFW users talking about it, so
> doubt it's there for them.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@... <mailto:steve@...> >
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 9:22 AM
> Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized
> voice pack cost
>
>
> Hi Sean,
>
> Window-Eyes has a great feature called Line Filter.  You can tell it to
> ignore all lines with a string of chars at the beginning of the line.  So
> when anyone bottom posts, I just switch on line filtering and it ignores
> lines beginning with the greater than sign.
>
> I don't know if JAWS has it, but it would be nice to have it in NVDA too.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun
> Everiss
> Sent: 28 September 2017 21:35
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and vocalized
> voice pack cost
>
> Well I really do wander if they find it easier to bottem post.
>
> Its not blind vs sighted as such its probably the way they like their
> screens.
>
> For example I have family which really like their threaded messages
> threaded.
>
> They like to see the old messages first so they know what they have sent and
>
> they can't remember what they typed previously.
>
> For us, I guess that would work, except we can't scroll to the start of the
>
> new content as such like this because our software just won't do it in a
> easy way.
>
> For the sighted its a quick mouse wheel flip my family do it all the time,
> they do it without thinking just like breathing.
>
> For us, we rely on our keyboards and screen readers, and to be honest I
> never look at what is below if I don't need to which could be a
> disadvantage.
>
> We also have to get used to the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> signs the lower
> and lower down we get down the message tree.
>
> So for us top posting is the most accessible.
>
> However we probably do lose some info over what was before.
>
> I can't say I have responded to a message without reading below first.
>
> I never do so I loose things.
>
> For me I respond to something if I know what it is or if its 1-2 days old
> maybe but I could be out of thread by the time I respond to a huge email
> list.
>
> A lot of techs I know thread and folder cluster their mail.
>
> A few friends don't do this, for myself coming from dos, I read and delete
> all my mail.
>
> If its important I save it in a text file with the message in it and
> whatever.
>
> If the email database corrupts or the system crashes or something I reformat
>
> and move on.
>
> My data is mostly backed up, it includes text of important files and the
> like.
>
> I realise I will get bit in the ass one day but I barely have to deal with
> important stuf and now with dropbox it means I can continue as I am till the
>
> world ends.
>
> On the other hand, rarely have I needed the net during a system outage that
>
> is critical.
>
> Or at a  critical point.
>
> But I guess I am lucky.
>
> Being a freelance tester means I just don't get the work I usually get and
> that means I have time to waste if I so choose which wouldn't be if I had to
>
> bother with critical data all the time.
>
>
>
>
> On 29/09/2017 5:13 a.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
>> I know I have been shoved off the talking newspaper list for this
>> crime. They are all doo gooders and ex mayors an aldermen trying for
>> obes I think. grin.
>> Their loss.
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...> , putting
>> 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis Siegel"
>> <tsiegel@... <mailto:tsiegel@...> >
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >
>> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 4:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and
>> vocalized voice pack cost
>>
>>
>>> Nah, I think it's more related to vi vs. sighted. On all vi lists,
>>> top posting is the thing, on most sighted lists, bottom posting is
>>> it. I've seen folks yelled at multiple times for not bottom posting
>>> on several sighted lists. But on at least one list I'm on,
>>> (thankfully, one I don't post on very often), folks get all bent out
>>> of shape if you top post. It's bottom post, or not at all in their
>>> opinion. A complete waste of time in my opinion, but nobody asked me.
>>>
>>> <shrug>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/28/2017 3:32 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
>>>> I think the problem is, in them older days most lists and Usenet
>>>> groups wanted you to bottom post, but that was when people sat down
>>>> and edited the quilted threads. There was an RFC about it, but
>>>> nowadays, things have gone the other way since most people are low
>>>> on time.
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>> bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>> briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...> , putting
>>>> 'Brian Gaff'
>>>> in the display name field.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@...
>>>> <mailto:gsasner@...> >
>>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 6:38 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and
>>>> vocalized voice pack cost
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please don’t bottom post. Post at the top of the messages. If you
>>>> bottom post, people won’t see your reply. They won’t wade through
>>>> five or more messages to finally find yours and many people think
>>>> you mistakenly sent a blank message.
>>>>
>>>> If you need help in how to top post, ask here.
>>>>
>>>> Gene
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Amber Gilmore
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 11:47 AM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>> Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and
>>>> vocalized voice pack cost
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@...
>>>>> <mailto:steve@...> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Amber,
>>>>>
>>>>> Here you go:-
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.comproom.co.uk/product/eloquence-and-vocalizer-expressiv
>>>>> e-add-on-for-nvda/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, for every copy sold, 10 Euros which is about 8 UK
>>>>> pounds, or about 15 US dollars, gets donated to NVAccess. Which is
>>>>> why I'm proud to sell it.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the best
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Amber Gilmore
>>>>> Sent: 27 September 2017 14:50
>>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and
>>>>> vocalized voice pack cost
>>>>>
>>>>> This is to Steve how much are you asking for your nvda and
>>>>> elouenqecincd elinquence i am in oklahoma he please get back to me,
>>>>> amber
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 25, 2017, at 4:33 AM, Steve Nutt <steve@...
>>>>>> <mailto:steve@...> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jim,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes there is a legal add on from Code Factory that comes with both
>>>>>> Eloquence and Vocalizer. Disclaimer: We do sell it. Please feel
>>>>>> free to contact me privately if interested.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We also have SAPI 5 voices for both, again, both perfectly legal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the best
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf
>>>>>> Of The Gamages
>>>>>> Sent: 20 September 2017 08:58
>>>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and
>>>>>> vocalized voice pack cost
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but surely there cannot be a
>>>>>> genuine NVDA add on for the voices which I wil not mention as they
>>>>>> are a banned topic? Code factory Vocaliser may be legal, but not
>>>>>> the other, I had to pay for my Vocaliser voices and they cost me
>>>>>> about "£70 years ago, these are now available as a stand alone
>>>>>> item and not tied to NVDA.
>>>>>> For those who just cannot afford extra voices, the Microsoft ones
>>>>>> are quite good and are, of course, free with the Microsoft system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As to the illegal subject, why anyone would want these outdated
>>>>>> voices beats me.
>>>>>> Take care.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards, Jim.
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Joseph Lee
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 8:24 PM
>>>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and
>>>>>> vocalized voice pack cost
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> As the owner of the NVDA add-ons list, I'm considering enacting
>>>>>> address ban if I hear reports of the moderated person jumping over
>>>>>> to the add-ons list to vent frustrations.
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf
>>>>>> Of Laz
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 11:58 AM
>>>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Admin: Re: [nvda] How much does the eloquence and
>>>>>> vocalized voice pack cost
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I stated in an email a few weeks ago when this person started
>>>>>> posting on the list, he will continue posting nonsensical
>>>>>> messages, off topic messages, and violate list rules until he is
>>>>>> removed. He apparently doesn't pay much attentionn to messages in
>>>>>> reply to his questions and will continue repeating things over and
>>>>>> over until stopped. Moderation is the least of possible solutions
>>>>>> to this situation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good luck Nimer and Gene!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Laz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/19/17, mr. Chikodinaka Nickarandidum Oguledo
>>>>>> <ochikodinaka@... <mailto:ochikodinaka@...> > wrote:
>>>>>>> when is the next update for NVDA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/19/17, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...
>>>>>>>> <mailto:nimerjaber1@...> > wrote:
>>>>>>>> I will just reiterate that Gene has my full and unqualified
>>>>>>>> support in this matter and I will be keeping an eye for any
>>>>>>>> future messages from this individual.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 1:17 PM Gene <gsasner@...
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:gsasner@...> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From the moderator:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't know why he is doing it and we have no basis to assume
>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>> I doubt it is intentional rudeness. I would say that people
>>>>>>>>> should simply not comment on any post by Mr. Chikodinaka
>>>>>>>>> Nickarandidum Oguledo unless he asks a new and useful question.
>>>>>>>>> Repetitive questions, the same question four times in a month
>>>>>>>>> or even twice in a month or six months, should simply be
>>>>>>>>> ignored.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is not useful to have a debate on list about Chikodinaka
>>>>>>>>> Nickarandidum Oguledo or his posts. If such unproductive
>>>>>>>>> debates continue, I shall lock all threads where such debates
>>>>>>>>> begin.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If Mr. Chikodinaka Nickarandidum Oguledo is too outrageous, I
>>>>>>>>> shall moderate him. Moderation means that I shall see every
>>>>>>>>> post from him and have to approve each post before it reaches
>>>>>>>>> the list. If I do that, I shall simply not approve repetitive
>>>>>>>>> questions nor questions that in any way, promote sites where
>>>>>>>>> illegal activity occurs. .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm explaining all this because Mr. Chikodinaka Nickarandidum
>>>>>>>>> Oguledo sent a post yesterday in which he seemed to indicate
>>>>>>>>> that he didn't know what being moderated means and because
>>>>>>>>> there may be other list members who don't know.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am not the list owner and if he wishes to deal with this
>>>>>>>>> matter differently, that is what he will do as list owner. I've
>>>>>>>>> stated what I will do unless the owner wishes something
>>>>>>>>> different to be done.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, on further consideration, I've changed my mind about how
>>>>>>>>> long moderation will last. It will last at least two months and
>>>>>>>>> whether it is lifted will depend on the kinds of posts Mr.
>>>>>>>>> Chikodinaka Nickarandidum Oguledo sends for approval.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Gene
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Cordially,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My mission is to bring love and peace to everyone around me with
>>>>>>>> all tools available to me.
>>>>>>>> My core values are integrity, innovation, loyalty, excellence,
>>>>>>>> and 100% personal responsibility.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient, please notify me via reply email and destroy all
>>>>>>>> copies of this correspondence. Action taken as a result of this
>>>>>>>> email or its contents by anyone other than the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient(s) may result in civil or criminal charges. I have
>>>>>>>> checked this email and all corresponding attachments for
>>>>>>>> security threats. However, security of your machine is up to
>>>>>>>> you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>> XP and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (218-606-0475) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>> Thank you, and have a great day!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> for if you persavear. you will conker never fear. try try try
>>>>>>> again
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It gives diffferent prides can you tell me whitch on is my prise,
>>>>> amber and i did a trial on another site with the same voices
>>>>> frommmm code factory will the link you sent me let me do it again
>>>>> cause when i started the trial befor my computer crashed and it was
>>>>> down so i missed it. Thanks, amber
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




Re: NVDA AND CCleaner

Jacob Kruger
 

John, what TTS engine/synth are you generally working with?


Ask since CCleaner will, at times, try clean up unnecessary files under %appData%, but, it's never given me any hassles working with eSpeak-ng, etc.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2017/10/04 13:19, John from Woodside Apps via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi All
As per subject line suggests I get no speech after a clean
with the CCleaner program.
I have to restart the machine to get the speech back.

NVDA 2017.3
Win 7 Pro 64bit
CCleaner 5. a clean version

I run the cleaner on the default settings.

Any help?


NVDA AND CCleaner No speech on win 7 after clean issue.

 

Hi All
As per subject line suggests I get no speech after a clean
with the CCleaner program.
I have to restart the machine to get the speech back.

NVDA 2017.3
Win 7 Pro 64bit
CCleaner 5. a clean version

I run the cleaner on the default settings.

Any help?
--
John from Woodside Apps. - Accessible Apps and games for mobile devices.
Twitter
https://twitter.com/woodside_apps

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