Date   

Using Slack?

 

Hello,

Are there any good clients to use NVDA with Slack?

My school has a lot of activity that goes on using Slack and I have the hardest time navigating through the different channels and figuring out what is what.

Thanks,



Re: can't access my messages in seamonkey

Brian's Mail list account
 

I always turn this off as it seems to be a menace rather than a feature, what they seem to mean is that unless you use their online system it might not work.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Griffith" <daj.griffith@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't access my messages in seamonkey


Just a thought but do you have the allow less secure apps turned on in your Gmail settings?
I am not sure apps like Sea Monkey will be allowed to access your Gmail unless you specifically allow it. You may have to go to the Gmail website and check your settings/notifications.
David Griffit
My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: 05 November 2017 02:52
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] can't access my messages in seamonkey

Hi, everyone,

I can't find any of my messages in seamonkey. What could I be doing wrong? I tried signing in to my gmail account but seamonkey wouldn't accept the information when I know it's correct. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for your help in advance.

Rosemarie


Re: Firefox 57 etc

Brian's Mail list account
 

Remember many do not use windows 10.

So if you all say it works but it does not work here, is there a further bug on windows 7 and firefox 57.
A friend with windows 10 tells me its very very sluggish at times compared to 55 his last version.

I'm suspecting a problem with it on windows 7, but instead of point scoring between the two camps and I know I'm as guilty of being in the stupid people putting it out half baked camp, could somebpody install it on windows 7, and tell us exactly how to stop it not working at all.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 4:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi John,


Boy, you really like to press home a point. I didn't fundamentally disagree with you on any of that. In fact, according to beta testers, Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different than earlier versions. In addition, I have begun to use Edge for many things. The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a bit erratic in forms mode. For example on the Send Space page where you have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired, NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail this one down either later this year or early next year. I can use Edge for anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some difficulty.


I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind people who raised questions about changes in accessibility.



On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:
Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/


And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/


The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change, whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting hacked
proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/



Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day, but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all been
here before, sadly.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "никита тарасов"
<ntarasov29@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's fully
available to NVDA.
Отправлено из Почты для Windows 10

От: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Отправлено: 3 ноября 2017 г. в 21:17
Кому: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered, I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda, and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.















--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



Re: Firefox 57 etc

Brian's Mail list account
 

This is clearly not the case when I tried it as only the menus worked.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long as you don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I don't know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by something is when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting hacked proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years. Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/


Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day, but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all been
here before, sadly.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "никита тарасов"
<ntarasov29@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's fully
available to NVDA.
Отправлено из Почты для Windows 10

От: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Отправлено: 3 ноября 2017 г. в 21:17
Кому: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some fixing for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I put the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the reason why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered, I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda, and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.












--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



Re: Firefox 57 etc

Brian's Mail list account
 

All very well, but you forget all the masses of exploits used in other software. I'm also saying this, if somebody said that this' ere screen dis[play is a way in to Firefox lets make it invisible then it would not be changed to stop the exploit. That is the thrust I'm going for.
Unfortunately it is a known fact that any code will have ways to get in and exploit it. Everything man or woman does has an up side and a down side as there are always crooks around.
However these issues have been around for years and years and nobody did sod all about it, till recently, and now its a mess because they did not actually think about it they simply did a fix and we have to take the left overs till they fix it for us.

Lets hope that checkbox does end up unchecked in the release version as I could not even find it so how con one alter it, I know! Hack the registry!
grin.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Isige" <gwynn@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/


And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/


The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change, whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting hacked
proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/



Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day, but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all been
here before, sadly.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "никита тарасов"
<ntarasov29@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's fully
available to NVDA.
Отправлено из Почты для Windows 10

От: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Отправлено: 3 ноября 2017 г. в 21:17
Кому: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered, I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda, and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.














Re: can't access my messages in seamonkey

 

To be honest, I had the same issue with my pop/imap accounts imap does not notify me in thunderbird for some reason when all the mail is done.

So one of my accounts used pop, I had another work one I don't use, in the end I set it to imap at first, then deleted and reinstalled thunderbird, then deleted all accounts and made the other one come back up and a few other things.

Its happened twice in the last month and I have no idea why, the issue seems resolved now though.

On 5/11/2017 7:51 p.m., David Griffith wrote:
Just a thought but do you have the allow less secure apps turned on in your Gmail settings?
I am not sure apps like Sea Monkey will be allowed to access your Gmail unless you specifically allow it. You may have to go to the Gmail website and check your settings/notifications.
David Griffit
My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: 05 November 2017 02:52
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] can't access my messages in seamonkey

Hi, everyone,

I can't find any of my messages in seamonkey. What could I be doing wrong? I tried signing in to my gmail account but seamonkey wouldn't accept the information when I know it's correct. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for your help in advance.

Rosemarie





Re: Firefox 57 etc

Brian's Mail list account
 

Well how does one actually get it to work then, I cannot get to anything I can read in order to check if the option is set wrongly, I was under the impression that it was supposed to be off by default. this has not been my experience, either that or there are more serious issues on the 32 bit version or it has problems in windows 7.
No My thrust and that of several others I know is that it has been sprung on people. IE if there was a version of firefox that by default could not be used by the sighted it would never leave the developers.
My point is that I'm sick and tired of being a second class citizen simply because I'm blind, and its about time these people got their fingers out of their ears or wherever they put them, not wanting to be rude and embraced accessibility at the start of a new concept not half way through it.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Isige" <gwynn@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


My apologies, I misunderstood your rhetoric comment. That's what comes
of trying to do two things at once. Also to be clear, I'm not saying we
shouldn't question changes. I think it's fine and valuable to ask what
changes are being made and why they're being made. But there are some
people who seem to assume they're almost always bad and are the start
down a path for changes for the worst, it seems to me, and that's what I
object to. As you say, and a few others have reported this here as well,
the new Firefox with the option set correctly seems to be mostly fine,
if slow. And if not, as you've also pointed out, we have other browsers
to use until it gets straightened out.


I also think it's valuable to point out that these aren't ham-fisted
sledgehammer changes, they are perhaps fairly large changes sure, but
they're not being done just because, they're being done for a perfectly
valid security reason. I figured I'd better provide examples instead of
just telling people it's an issue, now we can all see the potential
problems with code injection. I should add, I'm really glad the new
update is mostly fine, though I might use the extended release myself. I
use Firefox as my daily browser and haven't really found any of the
others to my liking for various reasons, though I need to play with them
some more because of course accessibility keeps improving for them.


Man I remember the days of IE 6 or 7 when JFW's Firefox support wasn't
that great, and IE updated and JFW hadn't caught up yet. Called tech
support and they insisted I couldn't be running the new version of IE
because the new version of IE didn't work with JFW. At least we've got
some pretty decent alternatives nowadays. I'm not even sure if Firefox
was supported yet, it was ages ago when this happened, but I remember I
had all kinds of issues browsing until it got updated eventually. And
that line will stick in my head forever, "you can't be running that",
I'm like "dude it's right here on my machine"! I think I even cranked
speech up over the speakers and made it read the version number. Fun times!


On 11/4/2017 23:45, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Boy, you really like to press home a point. I didn't fundamentally
disagree with you on any of that. In fact, according to beta testers,
Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different
than earlier versions. In addition, I have begun to use Edge for many
things. The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a bit
erratic in forms mode. For example on the Send Space page where you
have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired,
NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail this one
down either later this year or early next year. I can use Edge for
anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some
difficulty.


I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind people who
raised questions about changes in accessibility.



On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:
Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/



And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/



The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change, whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all
crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting hacked
proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/




Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and
also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day, but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be
done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are
actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand
scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation
takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not
sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed
neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all been
here before, sadly.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "никита тарасов"
<ntarasov29@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's
fully
available to NVDA.
Отправлено из Почты для Windows 10

От: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Отправлено: 3 ноября 2017 г. в 21:17
Кому: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in
again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one
set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it
wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for
now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I
could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just
here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered,
I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda, and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a
machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

















Re: Weather Plus 4.6 03.11.2017 update available

Brian's Mail list account
 

In the general settings on the nvda menu, its a combo box.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Akbar S. Currim" <raahzam@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Weather Plus 4.6 03.11.2017 update available


How do I select the debug level of logging?
Akbar


On 11/4/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...> wrote:
That is what happens when you mis spell and let it put in what it thinks you

meaean.
select the debug level of logging before you show the errors.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Akbar S. Currim" <raahzam@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2017 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Weather Plus 4.6 03.11.2017 update available


Hi,

What is taste debug?

Akbar


On 11/4/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...> wrote:
I don't think that log is any help I think you need taste debug to debug

not

just info first, then install a version of the add on then use it and
take
those bits of the log out and send them to the author.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Akbar S. Currim" <raahzam@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2017 6:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Weather Plus 4.6 03.11.2017 update available


Hi,

I get exactly the same resultwith this version also. It only instals
version of 25-10-2017 and not the new one although I have downloaded
the new version from the links provided by you in your message and
installed the same. I give below the log message which may assist you
in figuring out why this is happening. Hope you can help.

Thanks,

Akbar

Log:
INFO - __main__ (12:01:50.063):
Starting NVDA
INFO - core.main (12:01:50.201):
Config dir: C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda
INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (12:01:50.201):
Loading config: C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.ini
INFO - core.main (12:01:50.334):
NVDA version 2017.3
INFO - core.main (12:01:50.334):
Using Windows version 10.0.15063 workstation
INFO - core.main (12:01:50.334):
Using Python version 2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016,
20:42:59) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
INFO - core.main (12:01:50.334):
Using comtypes version 0.6.2
INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (12:01:50.615):
Loaded synthDriver eloquence
INFO - core.main (12:01:50.615):
Using wx version 3.0.2.0 msw (classic)
INFO - brailleInput.initialize (12:01:50.621):
Braille input initialized
INFO - braille.initialize (12:01:50.621):
Using liblouis version 3.2.0
INFO - braille.BrailleHandler.setDisplayByName (12:01:50.622):
Loaded braille display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.
WARNING - core.main (12:01:50.660):
Java Access Bridge not available
INFO - _UIAHandler.UIAHandler.MTAThreadFunc (12:01:50.664):
UIAutomation: IUIAutomation3
INFO - core.main (12:01:52.484):
NVDA initialized


On 11/3/17, Adriano Barbieri via Groups.Io
<adrianobarb@...> wrote:
Hi to every one,
Changes in this version:
* Improved the reading of current local time; search keys are more
accurate.

Weather Plus can update alone, however, it is possible to download
manually from the following links:
http://www.nvda.it/files/plugin/weather_plus4.6.nvda-addon
or from page:
http://www.nvda.it/weather-plus/
or from page:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/weatherPlus.en.html

Cheers
Adriano









Re: can't access my messages in seamonkey

David Griffith
 

Just a thought but do you have the allow less secure  apps turned on in your Gmail settings?

I am not sure apps like Sea Monkey will be allowed to access your Gmail unless you specifically allow it. You may have to go to the Gmail website and check your settings/notifications.

David Griffit

My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

 

From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: 05 November 2017 02:52
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] can't access my messages in seamonkey

 

Hi, everyone,

 

I can't find any of my messages in seamonkey. What could I be doing wrong? I tried signing in to my gmail account but seamonkey wouldn't accept the information when I know it's correct. What am I doing wrong?

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 


Re: Firefox 57 etc

John Isige
 

My apologies, I misunderstood your rhetoric comment. That's what comes
of trying to do two things at once. Also to be clear, I'm not saying we
shouldn't question changes. I think it's fine and valuable to ask what
changes are being made and why they're being made. But there are some
people who seem to assume they're almost always bad and are the start
down a path for changes for the worst, it seems to me, and that's what I
object to. As you say, and a few others have reported this here as well,
the new Firefox with the option set correctly seems to be mostly fine,
if slow. And if not, as you've also pointed out, we have other browsers
to use until it gets straightened out.


I also think it's valuable to point out that these aren't ham-fisted
sledgehammer changes, they are perhaps fairly large changes sure, but
they're not being done just because, they're being done for a perfectly
valid security reason. I figured I'd better provide examples instead of
just telling people it's an issue, now we can all see the potential
problems with code injection. I should add, I'm really glad the new
update is mostly fine, though I might use the extended release myself. I
use Firefox as my daily browser and haven't really found any of the
others to my liking for various reasons, though I need to play with them
some more because of course accessibility keeps improving for them.


Man I remember the days of IE 6 or 7 when JFW's Firefox support wasn't
that great, and IE updated and JFW hadn't caught up yet. Called tech
support and they insisted I couldn't be running the new version of IE
because the new version of IE didn't work with JFW. At least we've got
some pretty decent alternatives nowadays. I'm not even sure if Firefox
was supported yet, it was ages ago when this happened, but I remember I
had all kinds of issues browsing until it got updated eventually. And
that line will stick in my head forever, "you can't be running that",
I'm like "dude it's right here on my machine"! I think I even cranked
speech up over the speakers and made it read the version number. Fun times!

On 11/4/2017 23:45, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Boy, you really like to press home a point.  I didn't fundamentally
disagree with you on any of that.  In fact, according to beta testers,
Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different
than earlier versions.  In addition, I have begun to use Edge for many
things.  The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a bit
erratic in forms mode.  For example on the Send Space page where you
have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired,
NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail this one
down either later this year or early next year.  I can use Edge for
anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some
difficulty.


I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind people who
raised questions about changes in accessibility.



On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:
Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/



And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/



The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change, whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all
crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default.  As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting hacked
proportionately than sighted folks.  Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/




Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and
also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day, but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened.  Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be
done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are
actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand
scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about their
policy toward the  VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation
takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not
sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed
neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all been
here before, sadly.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "никита тарасов"
<ntarasov29@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's
fully
available to NVDA.
Отправлено из Почты для Windows 10

От: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Отправлено: 3 ноября 2017 г. в 21:17
Кому: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit  firefox completely and go back in
again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one
set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it
wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for
now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I
could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just
here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered,
I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda, and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a
machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

















Re: Weather Plus 4.6 03.11.2017 update available

Akbar S. Currim <raahzam@...>
 

How do I select the debug level of logging?
Akbar


On 11/4/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...> wrote:
That is what happens when you mis spell and let it put in what it thinks you

meaean.
select the debug level of logging before you show the errors.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Akbar S. Currim" <raahzam@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2017 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Weather Plus 4.6 03.11.2017 update available


Hi,

What is taste debug?

Akbar


On 11/4/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...> wrote:
I don't think that log is any help I think you need taste debug to debug

not

just info first, then install a version of the add on then use it and
take
those bits of the log out and send them to the author.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Akbar S. Currim" <raahzam@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2017 6:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Weather Plus 4.6 03.11.2017 update available


Hi,

I get exactly the same resultwith this version also. It only instals
version of 25-10-2017 and not the new one although I have downloaded
the new version from the links provided by you in your message and
installed the same. I give below the log message which may assist you
in figuring out why this is happening. Hope you can help.

Thanks,

Akbar

Log:
INFO - __main__ (12:01:50.063):
Starting NVDA
INFO - core.main (12:01:50.201):
Config dir: C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda
INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (12:01:50.201):
Loading config: C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.ini
INFO - core.main (12:01:50.334):
NVDA version 2017.3
INFO - core.main (12:01:50.334):
Using Windows version 10.0.15063 workstation
INFO - core.main (12:01:50.334):
Using Python version 2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016,
20:42:59) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
INFO - core.main (12:01:50.334):
Using comtypes version 0.6.2
INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (12:01:50.615):
Loaded synthDriver eloquence
INFO - core.main (12:01:50.615):
Using wx version 3.0.2.0 msw (classic)
INFO - brailleInput.initialize (12:01:50.621):
Braille input initialized
INFO - braille.initialize (12:01:50.621):
Using liblouis version 3.2.0
INFO - braille.BrailleHandler.setDisplayByName (12:01:50.622):
Loaded braille display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.
WARNING - core.main (12:01:50.660):
Java Access Bridge not available
INFO - _UIAHandler.UIAHandler.MTAThreadFunc (12:01:50.664):
UIAutomation: IUIAutomation3
INFO - core.main (12:01:52.484):
NVDA initialized


On 11/3/17, Adriano Barbieri via Groups.Io
<adrianobarb@...> wrote:
Hi to every one,
Changes in this version:
* Improved the reading of current local time; search keys are more
accurate.

Weather Plus can update alone, however, it is possible to download
manually from the following links:
http://www.nvda.it/files/plugin/weather_plus4.6.nvda-addon
or from page:
http://www.nvda.it/weather-plus/
or from page:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/weatherPlus.en.html

Cheers
Adriano









Re: Firefox 57 etc

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi John,


Boy, you really like to press home a point.  I didn't fundamentally disagree with you on any of that.  In fact, according to beta testers, Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different than earlier versions.  In addition, I have begun to use Edge for many things.  The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a bit erratic in forms mode.  For example on the Send Space page where you have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired, NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail this one down either later this year or early next year.  I can use Edge for anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some difficulty.


I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind people who raised questions about changes in accessibility.

On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:
Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/


And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/


The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change, whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default.  As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting hacked
proportionately than sighted folks.  Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/



Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day, but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened.  Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about their
policy toward the  VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all been
here before, sadly.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "никита тарасов"
<ntarasov29@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's fully
available to NVDA.
Отправлено из Почты для Windows 10

От: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Отправлено: 3 ноября 2017 г. в 21:17
Кому: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit  firefox completely and go back in again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered, I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda, and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.















--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


can't access my messages in seamonkey

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, everyone,

 

I can't find any of my messages in seamonkey. What could I be doing wrong? I tried signing in to my gmail account but seamonkey wouldn't accept the information when I know it's correct. What am I doing wrong?

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Rosemarie

 

 


Re: Firefox 57 etc

 

To be honest I am sure once the kinks are ironed out it will be good uia when its not being a real pain works quite nicely.

However, if the old access services are bad lets hope mozilla gets the new system up quickly and we have a nice experience.

But if all else fails, I will be using chrome or ie 11 I guess.

On 5/11/2017 2:57 p.m., John Isige wrote:
Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/


And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/


The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change, whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default.  As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting hacked
proportionately than sighted folks.  Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/



Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day, but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened.  Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about their
policy toward the  VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all been
here before, sadly.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "никита тарасов"
<ntarasov29@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's fully
available to NVDA.
Отправлено из Почты для Windows 10

От: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Отправлено: 3 ноября 2017 г. в 21:17
Кому: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit  firefox completely and go back in again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered, I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda, and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
















Re: Firefox 57 etc

John Isige
 

Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/


And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/


The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change, whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all crewed.

On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting hacked
proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/



Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day, but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all been
here before, sadly.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "никита тарасов"
<ntarasov29@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's fully
available to NVDA.
Отправлено из Почты для Windows 10

От: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Отправлено: 3 ноября 2017 г. в 21:17
Кому: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered, I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda, and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.














Re: Firefox 57 etc

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Tony,

I just grabed seamonkey but it's asking me for my credentials for my gmail acount. It's not accepting my info. What do I do now?

Thanks.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 6:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Thanks. I'm gonna grab it right now.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 6:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi Rose Marie,


Here ya go!


https://www.dropbox.com/s/g72irjtipcgpn3t/SeaMonkey%20Setup%202.46.exe?dl=0


Tony



On 11/4/2017 9:11 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Thanks. I'd love it.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Tony Ballou
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 6:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi rose Marie,


Interesting, if you're not able to grab it, I have a copy that I can drop box you.


Tony


On 11/4/2017 5:33 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi again, Tony,

I just went on the site and they're fixing the problem for the new update. I'll try again later.

Rosemarie



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 2:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi, Tony,

I just tried to download seamonkey and got an error message saying 400 error not found. What could I be doing wrong?

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Tony Ballou
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 5:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi,


Another alternative to possibly ponder here, in recent months I've been using sea monkey with NVDA and it works great. For those who are not aware, this is an online suite of programs from Mozilla, which combine an HTML editor, web browser, and Email client. It is accessible with NVDA has a myriad of keyboard shortcuts, and if you know Firefox and Thunderbird, you've basically got the game won. Just a thought.


Tony


On 11/3/2017 6:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average
unaware updater found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered, I do
not know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find any option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost
half of my bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda, and I
am up to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off
auto updates. I have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my
bookmarks back as well as functionality. To my mind the makers of
Firefox at the current state of play should be able to see if
screenreading software is on a machine in a similar way to Adobe
reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from updating to an unworkable
version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.















Re: Firefox 57 etc

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Thanks. I'm gonna grab it right now.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 6:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi Rose Marie,


Here ya go!


https://www.dropbox.com/s/g72irjtipcgpn3t/SeaMonkey%20Setup%202.46.exe?dl=0


Tony



On 11/4/2017 9:11 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Thanks. I'd love it.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Tony Ballou
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 6:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi rose Marie,


Interesting, if you're not able to grab it, I have a copy that I can drop box you.


Tony


On 11/4/2017 5:33 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi again, Tony,

I just went on the site and they're fixing the problem for the new update. I'll try again later.

Rosemarie



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 2:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi, Tony,

I just tried to download seamonkey and got an error message saying 400 error not found. What could I be doing wrong?

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Tony Ballou
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 5:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi,


Another alternative to possibly ponder here, in recent months I've been using sea monkey with NVDA and it works great. For those who are not aware, this is an online suite of programs from Mozilla, which combine an HTML editor, web browser, and Email client. It is accessible with NVDA has a myriad of keyboard shortcuts, and if you know Firefox and Thunderbird, you've basically got the game won. Just a thought.


Tony


On 11/3/2017 6:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average
unaware updater found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered, I do
not know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find any option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost
half of my bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda, and I
am up to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off
auto updates. I have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my
bookmarks back as well as functionality. To my mind the makers of
Firefox at the current state of play should be able to see if
screenreading software is on a machine in a similar way to Adobe
reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from updating to an unworkable
version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.















Re: Firefox 57 etc

Tony Ballou
 

On 11/4/2017 9:11 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Thanks. I'd love it.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 6:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi rose Marie,


Interesting, if you're not able to grab it, I have a copy that I can drop box you.


Tony


On 11/4/2017 5:33 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi again, Tony,

I just went on the site and they're fixing the problem for the new update. I'll try again later.

Rosemarie



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 2:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi, Tony,

I just tried to download seamonkey and got an error message saying 400 error not found. What could I be doing wrong?

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 5:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi,


Another alternative to possibly ponder here, in recent months I've been using sea monkey with NVDA and it works great. For those who are not aware, this is an online suite of programs from Mozilla, which combine an HTML editor, web browser, and Email client. It is accessible with NVDA has a myriad of keyboard shortcuts, and if you know Firefox and Thunderbird, you've basically got the game won. Just a thought.


Tony


On 11/3/2017 6:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered, I do
not know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find any option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost
half of my bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda, and I am
up to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off
auto updates. I have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my
bookmarks back as well as functionality. To my mind the makers of
Firefox at the current state of play should be able to see if
screenreading software is on a machine in a similar way to Adobe
reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from updating to an unworkable
version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.















Re: Firefox 57 etc

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Thanks. I'd love it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 6:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi rose Marie,


Interesting, if you're not able to grab it, I have a copy that I can drop box you.


Tony


On 11/4/2017 5:33 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi again, Tony,

I just went on the site and they're fixing the problem for the new update. I'll try again later.

Rosemarie



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 2:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi, Tony,

I just tried to download seamonkey and got an error message saying 400 error not found. What could I be doing wrong?

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 5:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi,


Another alternative to possibly ponder here, in recent months I've been using sea monkey with NVDA and it works great. For those who are not aware, this is an online suite of programs from Mozilla, which combine an HTML editor, web browser, and Email client. It is accessible with NVDA has a myriad of keyboard shortcuts, and if you know Firefox and Thunderbird, you've basically got the game won. Just a thought.


Tony


On 11/3/2017 6:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered, I do
not know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find any option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost
half of my bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda, and I am
up to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off
auto updates. I have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my
bookmarks back as well as functionality. To my mind the makers of
Firefox at the current state of play should be able to see if
screenreading software is on a machine in a similar way to Adobe
reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from updating to an unworkable
version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.











Re: Firefox 57 etc

Tony Ballou
 

Hi rose Marie,


 Interesting,  if you're not able to grab it, I have a copy that I can
drop box you.


Tony

On 11/4/2017 5:33 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi again, Tony,

I just went on the site and they're fixing the problem for the new update. I'll try again later.

Rosemarie



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 2:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi, Tony,

I just tried to download seamonkey and got an error message saying 400 error not found. What could I be doing wrong?

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 5:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi,


Another alternative to possibly ponder here, in recent months I've been using sea monkey with NVDA and it works great. For those who are not aware, this is an online suite of programs from Mozilla, which combine an HTML editor, web browser, and Email client. It is accessible with NVDA has a myriad of keyboard shortcuts, and if you know Firefox and Thunderbird, you've basically got the game won. Just a thought.


Tony


On 11/3/2017 6:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered, I do
not know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find any option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost
half of my bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda, and I am
up to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off
auto updates. I have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my
bookmarks back as well as functionality. To my mind the makers of
Firefox at the current state of play should be able to see if
screenreading software is on a machine in a similar way to Adobe
reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from updating to an unworkable
version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.