Gee--how come the rest of us haven't heard of this so-called bug?




On 11/6/2017 2:31 AM, zahra wrote:

i read maintenance service has many bugs and problems.
i never install it, i choose custom installation and unchecke its checkbox.
i never update my firefox and so, set it to never update and also
changed many uptions in about:config to be sure anythings never be
updated for me!
maintenance service is just for updating firefox without users
interaction and silently updates firefox without any notification!

On 11/6/17, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

All the update options are obvious. There is an automatically update
option, an option to notify you when an update is available and an option to
never update. I don't know if you are saying not all the update options are
obviouls or not all the options available in the entire options dialog are
obvious.

If somene doesn't know how or has problems finding the update settings, how
to find them can be explained and once explained, it shouldn't be difficult
to find them. But remopving the actual service itself is a really terrible
idea.

Gene


From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 3:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


That is a bit of a sledgehammer way. You can set it in the options, but
quite what all the choices do is not instantly obvious, except the one to
say never update of course!
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


just delete maintainance service in your control panel, i mean
uninstall it and go to options, advance, update and set your desires.

On 11/6/17, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

How can I make sure Firefox won't update? I don't want my go-to browser
to be unusable!


On 6/11/2017 10:17 AM, Stephen wrote:

I thought that was why there were beta versions before the main
release, to get these issues ironed out in the first place?
At 07:47 PM 11/5/2017, you wrote:

Well how does one actually get it to work then, I cannot get to
anything I can read in order to check if the option is set wrongly, I
was under the impression that it was supposed to be off by default.
this has not been my experience, either that or there are more
serious issues on the 32 bit version or it has problems in windows 7.
No My thrust and that of several others I know is that it has been
sprung on people. IE if there was a version of firefox that by
default could not be used by the sighted it would never leave the
developers.
My point is that I'm sick and tired of being a second class citizen
simply because I'm blind, and its about time these people got their
fingers out of their ears or wherever they put them, not wanting to
be rude and embraced accessibility at the start of a new concept not
half way through it.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Isige" <gwynn@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


My apologies, I misunderstood your rhetoric comment. That's what comes
of trying to do two things at once. Also to be clear, I'm not saying we
shouldn't question changes. I think it's fine and valuable to ask what
changes are being made and why they're being made. But there are some
people who seem to assume they're almost always bad and are the start
down a path for changes for the worst, it seems to me, and that's what
I
object to. As you say, and a few others have reported this here as
well,
the new Firefox with the option set correctly seems to be mostly fine,
if slow. And if not, as you've also pointed out, we have other browsers
to use until it gets straightened out.


I also think it's valuable to point out that these aren't ham-fisted
sledgehammer changes, they are perhaps fairly large changes sure, but
they're not being done just because, they're being done for a perfectly
valid security reason. I figured I'd better provide examples instead of
just telling people it's an issue, now we can all see the potential
problems with code injection. I should add, I'm really glad the new
update is mostly fine, though I might use the extended release myself.
I
use Firefox as my daily browser and haven't really found any of the
others to my liking for various reasons, though I need to play with
them
some more because of course accessibility keeps improving for them.


Man I remember the days of IE 6 or 7 when JFW's Firefox support wasn't
that great, and IE updated and JFW hadn't caught up yet. Called tech
support and they insisted I couldn't be running the new version of IE
because the new version of IE didn't work with JFW. At least we've got
some pretty decent alternatives nowadays. I'm not even sure if Firefox
was supported yet, it was ages ago when this happened, but I remember I
had all kinds of issues browsing until it got updated eventually. And
that line will stick in my head forever, "you can't be running that",
I'm like "dude it's right here on my machine"! I think I even cranked
speech up over the speakers and made it read the version number. Fun
times!


On 11/4/2017 23:45, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi John,


Boy, you really like to press home a point. I didn't fundamentally
disagree with you on any of that. In fact, according to beta testers,
Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different
than earlier versions. In addition, I have begun to use Edge for many
things. The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a bit
erratic in forms mode. For example on the Send Space page where you
have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired,
NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail this one
down either later this year or early next year. I can use Edge for
anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some
difficulty.


I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind people who
raised questions about changes in accessibility.



On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:

Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/





And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/





The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are
complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using
something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number
written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it
could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is
another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change,
whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just
rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's
also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve
code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge
because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why
everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't
materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain
things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of
alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of
Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or
Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked
out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the
road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all
crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I
don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by
something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting
hacked
proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:

If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you
would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/






Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and
also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day,
but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should
have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and
it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be
done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I
get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are
actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition
happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand
scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its
not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about
their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation
takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not
sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going
down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop
hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed
neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all
been
here before, sadly.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "никиÑ,а Ñ,аÑ?Ð°Ñ Ð¾Ð²"
<ntarasov29@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's
fully
available to NVDA.
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено из ÐYоÑ?Ñ,Ñ< Ð´Ð»Ñ Windows 10

ÐzÑ,: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено: 3 Ð½Ð¾Ñ Ð±Ñ?Ñ 2017 г. в 21:17
ÐsомÑf: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some
fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently
unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially
where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I
put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install
them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the
screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in
again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case
prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one
set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it
wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the
reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for
now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I
could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:

With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page
is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just
here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered,
I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying
to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda,
and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a
machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org

i read maintenance service has many bugs and problems.
i never install it, i choose custom installation and unchecke its checkbox.
i never update my firefox and so, set it to never update and also
changed many uptions in about:config to be sure anythings never be
updated for me!
maintenance service is just for updating firefox without users
interaction and silently updates firefox without any notification!

On 11/6/17, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

All the update options are obvious. There is an automatically update
option, an option to notify you when an update is available and an option to
never update. I don't know if you are saying not all the update options are
obviouls or not all the options available in the entire options dialog are
obvious.

If somene doesn't know how or has problems finding the update settings, how
to find them can be explained and once explained, it shouldn't be difficult
to find them. But remopving the actual service itself is a really terrible
idea.

Gene


From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 3:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


That is a bit of a sledgehammer way. You can set it in the options, but
quite what all the choices do is not instantly obvious, except the one to
say never update of course!
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


just delete maintainance service in your control panel, i mean
uninstall it and go to options, advance, update and set your desires.

On 11/6/17, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

How can I make sure Firefox won't update? I don't want my go-to browser
to be unusable!


On 6/11/2017 10:17 AM, Stephen wrote:

I thought that was why there were beta versions before the main
release, to get these issues ironed out in the first place?
At 07:47 PM 11/5/2017, you wrote:

Well how does one actually get it to work then, I cannot get to
anything I can read in order to check if the option is set wrongly, I
was under the impression that it was supposed to be off by default.
this has not been my experience, either that or there are more
serious issues on the 32 bit version or it has problems in windows 7.
No My thrust and that of several others I know is that it has been
sprung on people. IE if there was a version of firefox that by
default could not be used by the sighted it would never leave the
developers.
My point is that I'm sick and tired of being a second class citizen
simply because I'm blind, and its about time these people got their
fingers out of their ears or wherever they put them, not wanting to
be rude and embraced accessibility at the start of a new concept not
half way through it.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Isige" <gwynn@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


My apologies, I misunderstood your rhetoric comment. That's what comes
of trying to do two things at once. Also to be clear, I'm not saying we
shouldn't question changes. I think it's fine and valuable to ask what
changes are being made and why they're being made. But there are some
people who seem to assume they're almost always bad and are the start
down a path for changes for the worst, it seems to me, and that's what
I
object to. As you say, and a few others have reported this here as
well,
the new Firefox with the option set correctly seems to be mostly fine,
if slow. And if not, as you've also pointed out, we have other browsers
to use until it gets straightened out.


I also think it's valuable to point out that these aren't ham-fisted
sledgehammer changes, they are perhaps fairly large changes sure, but
they're not being done just because, they're being done for a perfectly
valid security reason. I figured I'd better provide examples instead of
just telling people it's an issue, now we can all see the potential
problems with code injection. I should add, I'm really glad the new
update is mostly fine, though I might use the extended release myself.
I
use Firefox as my daily browser and haven't really found any of the
others to my liking for various reasons, though I need to play with
them
some more because of course accessibility keeps improving for them.


Man I remember the days of IE 6 or 7 when JFW's Firefox support wasn't
that great, and IE updated and JFW hadn't caught up yet. Called tech
support and they insisted I couldn't be running the new version of IE
because the new version of IE didn't work with JFW. At least we've got
some pretty decent alternatives nowadays. I'm not even sure if Firefox
was supported yet, it was ages ago when this happened, but I remember I
had all kinds of issues browsing until it got updated eventually. And
that line will stick in my head forever, "you can't be running that",
I'm like "dude it's right here on my machine"! I think I even cranked
speech up over the speakers and made it read the version number. Fun
times!


On 11/4/2017 23:45, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi John,


Boy, you really like to press home a point. I didn't fundamentally
disagree with you on any of that. In fact, according to beta testers,
Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different
than earlier versions. In addition, I have begun to use Edge for many
things. The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a bit
erratic in forms mode. For example on the Send Space page where you
have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired,
NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail this one
down either later this year or early next year. I can use Edge for
anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some
difficulty.


I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind people who
raised questions about changes in accessibility.



On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:

Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/





And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/





The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are
complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using
something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number
written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it
could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is
another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change,
whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just
rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's
also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve
code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge
because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why
everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't
materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain
things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of
alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of
Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or
Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked
out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the
road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all
crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I
don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by
something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting
hacked
proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:

If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you
would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/






Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and
also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day,
but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should
have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and
it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be
done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I
get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are
actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition
happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand
scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its
not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about
their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation
takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not
sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going
down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop
hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed
neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all
been
here before, sadly.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "никиÑ,а Ñ,аÑ?Ð°Ñ Ð¾Ð²"
<ntarasov29@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's
fully
available to NVDA.
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено из ÐYоÑ?Ñ,Ñ< Ð´Ð»Ñ Windows 10

ÐzÑ,: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено: 3 Ð½Ð¾Ñ Ð±Ñ?Ñ 2017 г. в 21:17
ÐsомÑf: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some
fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently
unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially
where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I
put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install
them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the
screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in
again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case
prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one
set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it
wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the
reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for
now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I
could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:

With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page
is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just
here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered,
I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying
to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda,
and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a
machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

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--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org

All the update options are obvious. There is an automatically update
option, an option to notify you when an update is available and an option to
never update. I don't know if you are saying not all the update options are
obviouls or not all the options available in the entire options dialog are
obvious.

If somene doesn't know how or has problems finding the update settings, how
to find them can be explained and once explained, it shouldn't be difficult
to find them. But remopving the actual service itself is a really terrible
idea.

Gene


From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 3:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


That is a bit of a sledgehammer way. You can set it in the options, but
quite what all the choices do is not instantly obvious, except the one to
say never update of course!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


just delete maintainance service in your control panel, i mean
uninstall it and go to options, advance, update and set your desires.

On 11/6/17, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

How can I make sure Firefox won't update? I don't want my go-to browser
to be unusable!


On 6/11/2017 10:17 AM, Stephen wrote:

I thought that was why there were beta versions before the main
release, to get these issues ironed out in the first place?
At 07:47 PM 11/5/2017, you wrote:

Well how does one actually get it to work then, I cannot get to
anything I can read in order to check if the option is set wrongly, I
was under the impression that it was supposed to be off by default.
this has not been my experience, either that or there are more
serious issues on the 32 bit version or it has problems in windows 7.
No My thrust and that of several others I know is that it has been
sprung on people. IE if there was a version of firefox that by
default could not be used by the sighted it would never leave the
developers.
My point is that I'm sick and tired of being a second class citizen
simply because I'm blind, and its about time these people got their
fingers out of their ears or wherever they put them, not wanting to
be rude and embraced accessibility at the start of a new concept not
half way through it.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "John Isige" <gwynn@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


My apologies, I misunderstood your rhetoric comment. That's what comes
of trying to do two things at once. Also to be clear, I'm not saying we
shouldn't question changes. I think it's fine and valuable to ask what
changes are being made and why they're being made. But there are some
people who seem to assume they're almost always bad and are the start
down a path for changes for the worst, it seems to me, and that's what
I
object to. As you say, and a few others have reported this here as
well,
the new Firefox with the option set correctly seems to be mostly fine,
if slow. And if not, as you've also pointed out, we have other browsers
to use until it gets straightened out.


I also think it's valuable to point out that these aren't ham-fisted
sledgehammer changes, they are perhaps fairly large changes sure, but
they're not being done just because, they're being done for a perfectly
valid security reason. I figured I'd better provide examples instead of
just telling people it's an issue, now we can all see the potential
problems with code injection. I should add, I'm really glad the new
update is mostly fine, though I might use the extended release myself.
I
use Firefox as my daily browser and haven't really found any of the
others to my liking for various reasons, though I need to play with
them
some more because of course accessibility keeps improving for them.


Man I remember the days of IE 6 or 7 when JFW's Firefox support wasn't
that great, and IE updated and JFW hadn't caught up yet. Called tech
support and they insisted I couldn't be running the new version of IE
because the new version of IE didn't work with JFW. At least we've got
some pretty decent alternatives nowadays. I'm not even sure if Firefox
was supported yet, it was ages ago when this happened, but I remember I
had all kinds of issues browsing until it got updated eventually. And
that line will stick in my head forever, "you can't be running that",
I'm like "dude it's right here on my machine"! I think I even cranked
speech up over the speakers and made it read the version number. Fun
times!


On 11/4/2017 23:45, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi John,


Boy, you really like to press home a point. I didn't fundamentally
disagree with you on any of that. In fact, according to beta testers,
Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different
than earlier versions. In addition, I have begun to use Edge for many
things. The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a bit
erratic in forms mode. For example on the Send Space page where you
have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired,
NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail this one
down either later this year or early next year. I can use Edge for
anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some
difficulty.


I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind people who
raised questions about changes in accessibility.



On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:

Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/





And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/





The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are
complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using
something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number
written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it
could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is
another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change,
whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just
rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's
also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve
code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge
because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why
everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't
materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain
things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of
alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of
Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or
Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked
out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the
road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all
crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I
don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by
something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting
hacked
proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:

If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you
would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/






Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and
also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day,
but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should
have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and
it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be
done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I
get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are
actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition
happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand
scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its
not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about
their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation
takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not
sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going
down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop
hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed
neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all
been
here before, sadly.
Brian

bglists@...
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----- Original Message ----- From: "никиÑ,а Ñ,аÑ?Ð°Ñ Ð¾Ð²"
<ntarasov29@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's
fully
available to NVDA.
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено из ÐYоÑ?Ñ,Ñ< Ð´Ð»Ñ Windows 10

ÐzÑ,: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено: 3 Ð½Ð¾Ñ Ð±Ñ?Ñ 2017 г. в 21:17
ÐsомÑf: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some
fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently
unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially
where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I
put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install
them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the
screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in
again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case
prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one
set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it
wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the
reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for
now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I
could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:

With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page
is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just
here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered,
I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying
to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda,
and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a
machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org

Dear Mary

NVDA works better I find than Jaws with iTunes in general.

Personally I am resisting the upgrade to 12.7 for the time being.

The secret with iTunes on Windows is pretty uch similar to that on the Mac.

You need to have your library sorted by songs and then you need to enable column browser withing the View Menu and check the categories you want in the column vbiew browser. I do not personally use Genre. I have columns for artist albums and songs. For music playing this works very nicely with NVDA and you have the added bonus of all the shortcut keys working. Unlike in jaws you can use control alt arrow keys to fast forward and backwards. Jaws annoyingly just says not in a table. .

Arguably iTunes on Windows is marginally easier to utilise than iTunes on the Mac as generally there is less need for interaction,   and use of the F6 key and tabbing and cursor keys will get you to where you want to go pretty easily. Certainly I think that with column view properly enable iTunes provides the most accessible and easy music playing on Windows. With other layouts though I agree it is a nightmare.

Like on the Mac using the Find command, control F on windows will jump you to the area of iTunes where you can tab and easily  move between the different parts of iTunes such as Music Library, Podcasts  Video Store etc.

 

Personally I find the experience of playing Music better on Windows iTunes than on the Mac but I do find NVDA is more sluggish in the actual store and if you retain use of your Mac I would ;personally still  tend to purchase Music on the Mac side.

The only other area in which NVDA can be sluggish is where you are defining Songs as your Library layout in the library sidebar view options. I think the default is albums, Normally I just focus on where it says Albums and press S for Songs and this should eventually change.

David Griffith

My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

 

From: Mary Otten
Sent: 06 November 2017 16:16
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and iTunes

 

I have been using a Mac for a long time, but as I’m sure most of you know by now, having  seen my several messages on this list, I’m getting a new machine and will be using NVDA as my primary screen reader. I’m wondering about NVDA with iTunes. Latest release is 12.7, although I noticed they also have a 12.63, at least for the Mac. How is NVDA or narrator, but that’s for another list I guess, with iTunes? At some point, I could consider moving my iTunes library off of my Mac onto windows, since iTunes is still one of the big uses I have for the Mac.

Mary

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

 

I have been using a Mac for a long time, but as I’m sure most of you know by now, having seen my several messages on this list, I’m getting a new machine and will be using NVDA as my primary screen reader. I’m wondering about NVDA with iTunes. Latest release is 12.7, although I noticed they also have a 12.63, at least for the Mac. How is NVDA or narrator, but that’s for another list I guess, with iTunes? At some point, I could consider moving my iTunes library off of my Mac onto windows, since iTunes is still one of the big uses I have for the Mac.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

I have been using a Mac for a long time, but as I’m sure most of you know by now, having  seen my several messages on this list, I’m getting a new machine and will be using NVDA as my primary screen reader. I’m wondering about NVDA with iTunes. Latest release is 12.7, although I noticed they also have a 12.63, at least for the Mac. How is NVDA or narrator, but that’s for another list I guess, with iTunes? At some point, I could consider moving my iTunes library off of my Mac onto windows, since iTunes is still one of the big uses I have for the Mac.

Mary

Sent from my iPhone

i read maintenance service has many bugs and problems.
i never install it, i choose custom installation and unchecke its checkbox.
i never update my firefox and so, set it to never update and also
changed many uptions in about:config to be sure anythings never be
updated for me!
maintenance service is just for updating firefox without users
interaction and silently updates firefox without any notification!

On 11/6/17, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

All the update options are obvious. There is an automatically update
option, an option to notify you when an update is available and an option to
never update. I don't know if you are saying not all the update options are
obviouls or not all the options available in the entire options dialog are
obvious.

If somene doesn't know how or has problems finding the update settings, how
to find them can be explained and once explained, it shouldn't be difficult
to find them. But remopving the actual service itself is a really terrible
idea.

Gene


From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 3:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


That is a bit of a sledgehammer way. You can set it in the options, but
quite what all the choices do is not instantly obvious, except the one to
say never update of course!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


just delete maintainance service in your control panel, i mean
uninstall it and go to options, advance, update and set your desires.

On 11/6/17, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:

How can I make sure Firefox won't update? I don't want my go-to browser
to be unusable!


On 6/11/2017 10:17 AM, Stephen wrote:

I thought that was why there were beta versions before the main
release, to get these issues ironed out in the first place?
At 07:47 PM 11/5/2017, you wrote:

Well how does one actually get it to work then, I cannot get to
anything I can read in order to check if the option is set wrongly, I
was under the impression that it was supposed to be off by default.
this has not been my experience, either that or there are more
serious issues on the 32 bit version or it has problems in windows 7.
No My thrust and that of several others I know is that it has been
sprung on people. IE if there was a version of firefox that by
default could not be used by the sighted it would never leave the
developers.
My point is that I'm sick and tired of being a second class citizen
simply because I'm blind, and its about time these people got their
fingers out of their ears or wherever they put them, not wanting to
be rude and embraced accessibility at the start of a new concept not
half way through it.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "John Isige" <gwynn@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


My apologies, I misunderstood your rhetoric comment. That's what comes
of trying to do two things at once. Also to be clear, I'm not saying we
shouldn't question changes. I think it's fine and valuable to ask what
changes are being made and why they're being made. But there are some
people who seem to assume they're almost always bad and are the start
down a path for changes for the worst, it seems to me, and that's what
I
object to. As you say, and a few others have reported this here as
well,
the new Firefox with the option set correctly seems to be mostly fine,
if slow. And if not, as you've also pointed out, we have other browsers
to use until it gets straightened out.


I also think it's valuable to point out that these aren't ham-fisted
sledgehammer changes, they are perhaps fairly large changes sure, but
they're not being done just because, they're being done for a perfectly
valid security reason. I figured I'd better provide examples instead of
just telling people it's an issue, now we can all see the potential
problems with code injection. I should add, I'm really glad the new
update is mostly fine, though I might use the extended release myself.
I
use Firefox as my daily browser and haven't really found any of the
others to my liking for various reasons, though I need to play with
them
some more because of course accessibility keeps improving for them.


Man I remember the days of IE 6 or 7 when JFW's Firefox support wasn't
that great, and IE updated and JFW hadn't caught up yet. Called tech
support and they insisted I couldn't be running the new version of IE
because the new version of IE didn't work with JFW. At least we've got
some pretty decent alternatives nowadays. I'm not even sure if Firefox
was supported yet, it was ages ago when this happened, but I remember I
had all kinds of issues browsing until it got updated eventually. And
that line will stick in my head forever, "you can't be running that",
I'm like "dude it's right here on my machine"! I think I even cranked
speech up over the speakers and made it read the version number. Fun
times!


On 11/4/2017 23:45, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi John,


Boy, you really like to press home a point. I didn't fundamentally
disagree with you on any of that. In fact, according to beta testers,
Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different
than earlier versions. In addition, I have begun to use Edge for many
things. The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a bit
erratic in forms mode. For example on the Send Space page where you
have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired,
NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail this one
down either later this year or early next year. I can use Edge for
anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some
difficulty.


I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind people who
raised questions about changes in accessibility.



On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:

Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/





And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/





The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are
complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using
something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number
written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it
could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is
another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change,
whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just
rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's
also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve
code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge
because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why
everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't
materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain
things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of
alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of
Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or
Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked
out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the
road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all
crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I
don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by
something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting
hacked
proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:

If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you
would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/






Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and
also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day,
but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should
have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and
it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be
done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I
get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are
actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition
happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand
scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its
not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about
their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation
takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not
sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going
down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop
hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed
neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all
been
here before, sadly.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "никиÑ,а Ñ,аÑ?Ð°Ñ Ð¾Ð²"
<ntarasov29@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's
fully
available to NVDA.
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено из ÐYоÑ?Ñ,Ñ< Ð´Ð»Ñ Windows 10

ÐzÑ,: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено: 3 Ð½Ð¾Ñ Ð±Ñ?Ñ 2017 г. в 21:17
ÐsомÑf: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some
fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently
unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially
where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I
put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install
them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the
screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in
again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case
prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one
set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it
wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the
reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for
now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I
could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:

With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page
is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just
here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered,
I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying
to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda,
and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a
machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org

Hi,
WIth all the trouble with Firefox, I'm considering switching to GoogleChrome. How well does NVDA work with that web brouser?

Hi,

Here is what I did.

First, I removed Weather Plus from the list of addons. I then
restarted NVDA. I checked the addon list after that and even tried
using WP key NVDA W and only got it saying "W".

Being satisfied that WP was truly gone I installed it again after
downloading from the link provided by you. It asked for alt y to
install and after to restart NVDA. Note that it did not ask to
overwrite and update any existing other earlier version thus
signifying that WP earlier version was actually gone. I then
restarted NVDA and on restart I got a message that there was an update
available despite having just installed the downloaded file. I
checked the addon list after that and found that freshly installed WP
was version 25.10.17. Now where did I go wrong?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Regards,

Akbar


On 11/6/17, Adriano Barbieri via Groups.Io
<adrianobarb@...> wrote:

Hi,

Apparently, this problem happens only to you.
For some reason your installation is not successful.
The fact is detected, a "installTasks" is significant, because the Weather
Plus not using it anymore, by a lot.
There seems to be a conflict with the old version not deleted.

I repeat:
1. You need to uninstall Weather Plus, and then restart nvda.
2. Make sure that Weather Plus is no longer in the list of add-ons, test it
from tools, Manage addons...
3. Only if it's ok, install the new version.
http://www.nvda.it/files/plugin/weather_plus4.6.nvda-addon
Once you have restarted nvda, open the menu tools, Manage addons... and
verify the
new version

Cheers
Adriano


----- Original Message -----
From: "Akbar S. Currim" <raahzam@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Weather Plus 4.6 03.11.2017 update available

Hi,

Here is the log after selecting the debug level. Please do help.
Thanks,
Akbar

INFO - __main__ (19:16:21.479):
Starting NVDA
INFO - core.main (19:16:21.986):
Config dir: C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda
INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (19:16:21.987):
Loading config: C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.ini
INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (19:16:22.000):
Config loaded (after upgrade, and in the state it will be used by NVDA):
{u'schemaVersion': u'2', u'upgrade': {}, u'update': {u'autoCheck':
u'True'}, u'general': {u'showWelcomeDialogAtStartup': u'False',
u'language': u'Windows', u'saveConfigurationOnExit': u'True',
u'askToExit': u'True', u'playStartAndExitSounds': u'True',
u'loggingLevel': u'DEBUG'}, u'speech': {u'synth': u'eloquence',
u'outputDevice': u'Speakers (Realtek High Definiti',
u'autoDialectSwitching': u'False', u'symbolLevel': u'100',
u'autoLanguageSwitching': u'False', u'espeak': {u'voice': u'en',
u'variant': u'max', u'rate': u'20', u'pitch': u'40', u'inflection':
u'75', u'volume': u'100'}, u'eloquence': {u'voice': u'65536',
u'variant': u'1', u'pitch': u'62', u'inflection': u'30', u'volume':
u'92', u'rate': u'29', u'useSpellingFunctionality': u'False'},
u'sapi5': {u'voice':
u'HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\Speech\\Voices\\Tokens\\TTS_MS_EN-US_DAVID_11.0',
u'volume': u'100', u'rate': u'55', u'useSpellingFunctionality':
u'False', u'capPitchChange': u'40'}, u'vocalizer_expressive2':
{u'voice': u'Oliver', u'variant': u'premium-high', u'volume': u'92',
u'pitch': u'68', u'rate': u'60', u'capPitchChange': u'40'}, u'sv':
{u'variant': u'0', u'voice': u'1', u'pitch': u'4', u'inflection':
u'25', u'perturb': u'0', u'vfactor': u'20', u'avbias': u'45',
u'afbias': u'45', u'ahbias': u'45', u'intstyle': u'0', u'vmode': u'0',
u'gender': u'0', u'glot': u'0', u'smode': u'0'}}, u'braille':
{u'noBraille': {u'port': u''}}, u'keyboard':
{u'useCapsLockAsNVDAModifierKey': u'True', u'keyboardLayout':
u'laptop', u'speakCommandKeys': u'False', u'alertForSpellingErrors':
u'False', u'speakTypedCharacters': u'True', u'speakTypedWords':
u'False'}, u'mouse': {u'enableMouseTracking': u'False'},
u'documentFormatting': {u'autoLanguageSwitching': u'False',
u'reportSpellingErrors': u'False', u'reportLineIndentation': u'False',
u'reportLineIndentationWithTones': u'False', u'reportClickable':
u'False', u'reportLandmarks': u'True'}, u'speechViewer': {u'x': u'85',
u'y': u'55', u'width': u'500', u'height': u'500', u'displays':
[u'(3200, 1800)'], u'autoPositionWindow': u'False'}, u'presentation':
{u'guessObjectPositionInformationWhenUnavailable': u'True',
u'reportDynamicContentChanges': u'False', u'reportObjectDescriptions':
u'True', u'reportTooltips': u'True', u'progressBarUpdates':
{u'progressBarOutputMode': u'both', u'reportBackgroundProgressBars':
u'True'}}, u'virtualBuffers': {u'useScreenLayout': u'False'},
u'audio': {u'audioDuckingMode': u'0'}, u'uwpOcr': {u'language':
u'en-GB'}, u'wintenApps': {u'updateCheckTime': u'1510302132'}}
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:22.125):
setting language to Windows
INFO - core.main (19:16:22.125):
NVDA version 2017.3
INFO - core.main (19:16:22.127):
Using Windows version 10.0.15063 workstation
INFO - core.main (19:16:22.127):
Using Python version 2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016,
20:42:59) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
INFO - core.main (19:16:22.127):
Using comtypes version 0.6.2
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:22.160):
Initializing add-ons system
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.loadModule (19:16:22.163):
Importing module installTasks from plugin Weather Plus
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.332):
Listing add-ons from C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.332):
Loading add-on from C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\bitChe
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.338):
Found add-on bitChe
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.338):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\clipContentsDesigner
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.342):
Found add-on clipContentsDesigner
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.342):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\dayOfTheWeek
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.348):
Found add-on dayOfTheWeek
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.348):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\easyTableNavigator
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.352):
Found add-on easyTableNavigator
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.352):
Loading add-on from C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Eloquence
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.358):
Found add-on Eloquence
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.358):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\instantTranslate
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.362):
Found add-on instantTranslate
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.364):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\mp3DirectCut
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.368):
Found add-on mp3DirectCut
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.368):
Loading add-on from C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\ocr
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.372):
Found add-on ocr
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.372):
Disabling add-on ocr
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.374):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\placeMarkers
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.378):
Found add-on placeMarkers
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.378):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\reportSymbols
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.384):
Found add-on reportSymbols
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.384):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\reviewCursorCopier
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.388):
Found add-on reviewCursorCopier
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.388):
Loading add-on from C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Softvoice
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.394):
Found add-on Softvoice
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.394):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\speakPasswords
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.398):
Found add-on speakPasswords
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.398):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\systrayList
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.404):
Found add-on systrayList
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.404):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\tipOfTheDay
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.408):
Found add-on tipOfTheDay
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.408):
Disabling add-on tipOfTheDay
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.408):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Daniel-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.414):
Found add-on vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Daniel-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.414):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Kate-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.418):
Found add-on vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Kate-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.418):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Malcolm-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.424):
Found add-on vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Malcolm-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.426):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Oliver-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.430):
Found add-on vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Oliver-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.430):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Serena-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.434):
Found add-on vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Serena-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.436):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Ava-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.440):
Found add-on vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Ava-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.440):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Nathan-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.444):
Found add-on vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Nathan-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.444):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Samantha-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.450):
Found add-on vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Samantha-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.450):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Susan-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.454):
Found add-on vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Susan-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.454):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Tom-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.460):
Found add-on vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Tom-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.460):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Zoe-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.464):
Found add-on vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Zoe-PremiumHigh
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.466):
Loading add-on from
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive2_driver
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.470):
Found add-on vocalizer_expressive2_driver
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.470):
Loading add-on from C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.470):
Found add-on Weather Plus
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.470):
Loading add-on from C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\wintenApps
DEBUG - addonHandler._getAvailableAddonsFromPath (19:16:22.476):
Found add-on wintenApps
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:22.717):
Initializing appModule Handler
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:22.717):
Addon bitChe added to appModules package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:22.717):
Addon mp3DirectCut added to appModules package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:22.719):
Addon wintenApps added to appModules package path
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:22.719):
Initializing NVDAHelper
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:22.749):
Speech Dictionary processing
DEBUG - speechDictHandler.SpeechDict.load (19:16:22.749):
Loading speech dictionary
'C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\speechDicts\default.dic'...
DEBUG - speechDictHandler.SpeechDict.load (19:16:22.759):
35 loaded records.
DEBUG - speechDictHandler.SpeechDict.load (19:16:22.759):
Loading speech dictionary 'builtin.dic'...
DEBUG - speechDictHandler.SpeechDict.load (19:16:22.766):
3 loaded records.
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:22.767):
Initializing speech
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:22.767):
Addon Eloquence added to synthDrivers package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:22.767):
Addon Softvoice added to synthDrivers package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:22.769):
Addon vocalizer_expressive2_driver added to synthDrivers package path
DEBUG - external:synthDrivers.eloquence.SynthDriver.__init__
(19:16:22.920):
Using Eloquence version 6.1.0.0
DEBUG - speechDictHandler.SpeechDict.load (19:16:22.924):
Loading speech dictionary
'C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\speechDicts\eloquence-American
English.dic'...
DEBUG - speechDictHandler.SpeechDict.load (19:16:22.924):
file 'C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\speechDicts\eloquence-American
English.dic' not found.
INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (19:16:22.926):
Loaded synthDriver eloquence
INFO - core.main (19:16:22.926):
Using wx version 3.0.2.0 msw (classic)
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:22.927):
Initializing braille input
INFO - brailleInput.initialize (19:16:22.927):
Braille input initialized
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:22.927):
Initializing braille
INFO - braille.initialize (19:16:22.928):
Using liblouis version 3.2.0
INFO - braille.BrailleHandler.setDisplayByName (19:16:22.930):
Loaded braille display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:22.930):
Initializing displayModel
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:22.930):
Initializing GUI
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:22.976):
initializing Java Access Bridge support
WARNING - core.main (19:16:22.976):
Java Access Bridge not available
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:22.977):
Initializing winConsole support
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:22.977):
Initializing UIA support
INFO - _UIAHandler.UIAHandler.MTAThreadFunc (19:16:22.980):
UIAutomation: IUIAutomation3
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:23.246):
Initializing IAccessible support
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:23.246):
Initializing input core
DEBUGWARNING - inputCore.InputManager.loadLocaleGestureMap
(19:16:23.246):
No locale gesture map for language en
DEBUGWARNING - inputCore.InputManager.loadUserGestureMap (19:16:23.246):
No user gesture map
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:23.246):
Initializing keyboard handler
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:23.247):
initializing mouse handler
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:23.279):
Initializing touchHandler
DEBUGWARNING - touchHandler.initialize (19:16:23.279):
No touch devices found
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:23.279):
Initializing global plugin handler
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:23.279):
Addon clipContentsDesigner added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:23.279):
Addon dayOfTheWeek added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:23.279):
Addon easyTableNavigator added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:23.280):
Addon instantTranslate added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:23.280):
Addon mp3DirectCut added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:23.280):
Addon placeMarkers added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:23.280):
Addon reportSymbols added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:23.280):
Addon reviewCursorCopier added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:23.282):
Addon speakPasswords added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:23.282):
Addon systrayList added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:23.282):
Addon vocalizer_expressive2_driver added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:23.282):
Addon Weather Plus added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUG - addonHandler.Addon.addToPackagePath (19:16:23.282):
Addon wintenApps added to globalPlugins package path
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.342):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:67: SyntaxWarning: name
'samplesvolumes_dic' is assigned to before global declaration
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.342):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:228: SyntaxWarning: name
'volume' is assigned to before global declaration
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.342):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:228: SyntaxWarning: name
'samplesvolumes_dic' is assigned to before global declaration
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.342):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:380: SyntaxWarning: name
'_addonBaseUrl' is assigned to before global declaration
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.344):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:851: SyntaxWarning: name
'curSample' is assigned to before global declaration
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.344):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:870: SyntaxWarning: name
'handle' is assigned to before global declaration
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.344):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:968: SyntaxWarning: name
'handle' is assigned to before global declaration
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.344):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:968: SyntaxWarning: name
'curSample' is assigned to before global declaration
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.344):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:968: SyntaxWarning: name
'volume' is assigned to before global declaration
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.344):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:1012: SyntaxWarning: name
'handle' is assigned to before global declaration
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.344):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:1012: SyntaxWarning: name
'curSample' is assigned to before global declaration
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.344):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:1012: SyntaxWarning: name
'volume' is assigned to before global declaration
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.345):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:2310: SyntaxWarning: name
'samplesvolumes_dic' is used prior to global declaration
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.345):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:2317: SyntaxWarning: name
'volume' is assigned to before global declaration
DEBUGWARNING - Python warning (19:16:23.345):
C:\Users\raahz\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\Weather
Plus\globalPlugins\weather plus\__init__.py:2542: SyntaxWarning: name
'_addonBaseUrl' is assigned to before global declaration
DEBUG -
external:synthDrivers.vocalizer_expressive2._vocalizer.preInitialize
(19:16:24.802):
installed voice add-ons:
[u'vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Daniel-PremiumHigh',
u'vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Kate-PremiumHigh',
u'vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Malcolm-PremiumHigh',
u'vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Oliver-PremiumHigh',
u'vocalizer-expressive2-voice-eng-Serena-PremiumHigh',
u'vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Ava-PremiumHigh',
u'vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Nathan-PremiumHigh',
u'vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Samantha-PremiumHigh',
u'vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Susan-PremiumHigh',
u'vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Tom-PremiumHigh',
u'vocalizer-expressive2-voice-enu-Zoe-PremiumHigh']
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:25.250):
Initializing core pump
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:25.252):
Initializing watchdog
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:25.253):
initializing updateCheck
INFO - core.main (19:16:25.253):
NVDA initialized
DEBUG - core.main (19:16:25.253):
entering wx application main loop
IO - speech.speak (19:16:25.312):
Speaking [u'Notice! dialog An upgrade is available for Weather
Plus.\r\nClick on the Check for upgrades menu to download it.']
IO - speech.speak (19:16:25.336):
Speaking [u'OK button']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (19:16:26.977):
Input: kb(laptop):enter
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(19:16:26.996):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None,
None, None, 0, None))
IO - speech.speak (19:16:27.052):
Speaking [u'English (United States) - US']
IO - speech.speak (19:16:27.128):
Speaking [u'Downloads window']
IO - speech.speak (19:16:27.138):
Speaking [u'Items View list']
IO - speech.speak (19:16:27.145):
Speaking [u'weather_plus4.6(1).nvda-addon 2 of 86']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (19:16:35.911):
Input: kb(laptop):NVDA+n
IO - speech.speak (19:16:35.996):
Speaking [u'NVDA menu']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (19:16:36.888):
Input: kb(laptop):downArrow
IO - speech.speak (19:16:36.915):
Speaking [u'Preferences subMenu p']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (19:16:37.921):
Input: kb(laptop):downArrow
IO - speech.speak (19:16:37.936):
Speaking [u'Tools subMenu t']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (19:16:39.007):
Input: kb(laptop):enter
IO - speech.speak (19:16:39.036):
Speaking [u'View log v 1 of 7']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (19:16:39.654):
Input: kb(laptop):downArrow
IO - speech.speak (19:16:39.680):
Speaking [u'Speech viewer s 2 of 7']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (19:16:40.430):
Input: kb(laptop):upArrow
IO - speech.speak (19:16:40.464):
Speaking [u'View log v 1 of 7']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (19:16:40.979):
Input: kb(laptop):enter


On 11/3/17, Adriano Barbieri via Groups.Io
<adrianobarb@...> wrote:

Hi to every one,
Changes in this version:
* Improved the reading of current local time; search keys are more
accurate.

Weather Plus can update alone, however, it is possible to download
manually from the following links:
http://www.nvda.it/files/plugin/weather_plus4.6.nvda-addon
or from page:
http://www.nvda.it/weather-plus/
or from page:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/weatherPlus.en.html

Cheers
Adriano

Hello all,
I use Slakc with the iPhone app, which is rather accessible and with Chrome and Firefox.
NV access has developed a script making slack work with tampermonkey (a script manager for Firefox, Chrome, and other browsers).
I was able to activate notifications with a sound tone. I can go from one channel to another in pressing the go to next or previous link command (n and shift+n).
I can reach the list of recent messages by pressing h to next headings.
Each statement is structured in a bulleted list that you can browse from one statement to another by pressing i and shift+i.
You are informed when someone is writing and who is writing.
The url for all of this with all explanations is:
https://github.com/nvaccess/axSGrease
Best
Sylvie
Le 05/11/2017 à 15:43, Arthur BREUNEVAL via Groups.Io a écrit :

Hello,
I find the desktop app has been improved since the last year. It was not
usable at all before, but now I'm able to use it. I met some
difficulties to connect to the workspace, but playing with tab, arrow
keys and such, I was able to connect. When it was done, the navigation
is acceptable, I find. I've seen better accessibility in applications,
of course, but it still acceptable. I don't use the web app now, it is
quite slow for me in Firefox and I was not able to enable notifications.
Finallx, Slack offers a lot of shortcuts to navigate ùith the keyboard.
You can, for example, hit Alt + T to place the cursor into the text area
to type messages. You can review all keyboard shortcuts by hitting Alt +
A in Slack (at least, in the desktop app) : an accessible menu will pop
on, and here you can browse until you find "Keyboard Shortcuts...", or such.

Regards.



Arthur BREUNEVAL
Sent with Mozilla Thunderbird.

Le 05/11/2017 à 14:55, Bhavya shah a écrit :

Hi Brandon,
Slack with NVDA and Chrome is an accessible experience. What problems
are you facing specifically?
Thanks.

On 11/5/17, Robert Kingett <kingettr@...> wrote:

Get them to enable IRC support and get them to give you the IRC
information. I would suggest Miranda NG, Not Miranda IM, for an
accessible IRC client. That is the only way to use slack accessibly on
the desktop as of now. Slack says they have an accessibility team but
they are taking their sweet time to make accessibility changes. 2 years
now and they just added a colorblind theme. Compared to, say, Microsoft.