Date   

Weather Plus 4.6 06.11.2017 update available

Adriano Barbieri
 

Hi to every one,

Changes in this version:
* Fixed a small bug during the reading of the current time;
The separator ":" not being removed during conversion to integer.

Weather Plus can update alone, however, it is possible to download
manually from the following links:
http://www.nvda.it/files/plugin/weather_plus4.6.nvda-addon
or from page:
http://www.nvda.it/weather-plus/
or from page:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/weatherPlus.en.html

Cheers
Adriano Barbieri


Re: NVDA and iTunes

Chris Shook <chris0309@...>
 

I don't use narrator, but in my experience, NVDA works pretty well with this release. I can search for content, preview it, and buy just fine. I can also navigate Apple music, so that's no problem either. I haven't had any issues with NVDA and iTunes for a long time.


Another NVDA question

Howard Traxler <howard@...>
 

Could someone please tell me--or tell me where in the manual to find:

Back when I was using jaws, I could turn on the "JAWS Cursor" and look all over the screen--or maybe the current window. How can I get that effect in NVDA. Many times programs will give me a screen full of info and then just let me tab around a two or three button dialog: "yes, no, or cancel". I'd sometimes like to read the question before I answer it.

Thanks, anybody.
Howard


Re: EXTRA ANNOUNCEMENTS

Howard Traxler <howard@...>
 

Thanks Rob. That did it. I have never seen that dialog; didn't know it was there. Guess I should study this NVDA a bit more.

Howard

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Hudson" <rob_hudson_3182@gmx.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] EXTRA ANNOUNCEMENTS


Howard Traxler <howard@traxlerenterprises.com> wrote:
When going through my list of emails, NVDA announces "From", "subject", and
"received". As these things are quite obvious and these are just extra
sylables that slow things down, is there a way to turn off these
announcements?
Go into document formatting with control+NVDA+D and uncheck
"Row/Column Headers"
That will fix your extra verbiage.


Re: Firefox 57 etc

Tony Ballou
 

Hi Rose Marie,


I wouldn't worry about this.  It's something that I've also never heard of.


Tony

On 11/6/2017 11:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Gee--how come the rest of us haven't heard of this so-called bug?




On 11/6/2017 2:31 AM, zahra wrote:
i read maintenance service has many bugs and problems.
i never install it, i choose custom installation and unchecke its
checkbox.
i never update my firefox and so, set it to never update and also
changed many uptions in about:config to be sure anythings never be
updated for me!
maintenance service is just for updating firefox without users
interaction and silently updates firefox without any notification!

On 11/6/17, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
All the update options are obvious. There is an automatically update
option, an option to notify you when an update is available and an
option to
never update.  I don't know if you are saying not all the update
options are
obviouls or not all the options available in the entire options
dialog are
obvious.

If somene doesn't know how or has problems finding the update
settings, how
to find them can be explained and once explained, it shouldn't be
difficult
to find them.  But remopving the actual service itself is a really
terrible
idea.

Gene


From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 3:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


That is a bit of a sledgehammer way. You can set it in the options, but
quite what all the choices do is not instantly obvious, except the
one to
say never update of course!
  Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


just delete maintainance service in your control panel, i mean
uninstall it and go to options, advance, update and set your desires.

On 11/6/17, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com> wrote:
How can I make sure Firefox won't update? I don't want my go-to
browser
to be unusable!


On 6/11/2017 10:17 AM, Stephen wrote:
I thought that was why there were beta versions before the main
release, to get these issues ironed out in the first place?
At 07:47 PM 11/5/2017, you wrote:
Well how does one actually get it to work then, I cannot get to
anything I can read in order to check if the option is set
wrongly, I
was under the impression that it was supposed to be off by default.
this has not been my experience, either that or there are more
serious issues on the 32 bit version or it has problems in
windows 7.
No My thrust and that of several others I know is that it has been
sprung on people. IE if there was a version of firefox that by
default could not be used by the sighted it would never leave the
developers.
My point is that I'm sick and tired of being a second class citizen
simply because I'm blind, and its about time these people got their
fingers out of their ears or wherever they put them, not wanting to
be rude and embraced accessibility at the start of a new concept not
half way through it.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


My apologies, I misunderstood your rhetoric comment. That's what
comes
of trying to do two things at once. Also to be clear, I'm not
saying we
shouldn't question changes. I think it's fine and valuable to ask
what
changes are being made and why they're being made. But there are
some
people who seem to assume they're almost always bad and are the
start
down a path for changes for the worst, it seems to me, and that's
what
I
object to. As you say, and a few others have reported this here as
well,
the new Firefox with the option set correctly seems to be mostly
fine,
if slow. And if not, as you've also pointed out, we have other
browsers
to use until it gets straightened out.


I also think it's valuable to point out that these aren't ham-fisted
sledgehammer changes, they are perhaps fairly large changes sure,
but
they're not being done just because, they're being done for a
perfectly
valid security reason. I figured I'd better provide examples
instead of
just telling people it's an issue, now we can all see the potential
problems with code injection. I should add, I'm really glad the new
update is mostly fine, though I might use the extended release
myself.
I
use Firefox as my daily browser and haven't really found any of the
others to my liking for various reasons, though I need to play with
them
some more because of course accessibility keeps improving for them.


Man I remember the days of IE 6 or 7 when JFW's Firefox support
wasn't
that great, and IE updated and JFW hadn't caught up yet. Called tech
support and they insisted I couldn't be running the new version
of IE
because the new version of IE didn't work with JFW. At least
we've got
some pretty decent alternatives nowadays. I'm not even sure if
Firefox
was supported yet, it was ages ago when this happened, but I
remember I
had all kinds of issues browsing until it got updated eventually.
And
that line will stick in my head forever, "you can't be running
that",
I'm like "dude it's right here on my machine"! I think I even
cranked
speech up over the speakers and made it read the version number. Fun
times!


On 11/4/2017 23:45, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Boy, you really like to press home a point. I didn't fundamentally
disagree with you on any of that. In fact, according to beta
testers,
Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different
than earlier versions. In addition, I have begun to use Edge for
many
things. The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a
bit
erratic in forms mode. For example on the Send Space page where you
have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired,
NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail
this one
down either later this year or early next year. I can use Edge for
anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some
difficulty.


I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind
people who
raised questions about changes in accessibility.



On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:
Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/






And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/






The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are
complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers
do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using
something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you
should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and
writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number
written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it
could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is
another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change,
whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just
rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's
also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve
code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge
because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why
everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't
materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain
things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm
just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of
alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of
Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or
Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is
worked
out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that
nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the
road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all
crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long
as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I
don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by
something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't
very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting
hacked
proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for
years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you
would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/







Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and
also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day,
but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably
should
have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and
it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do
we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an
accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be
done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to
wonder. I
get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are
actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition
happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand
scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:
Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its
not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the
pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about
their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that
organisation
takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and
I'm not
sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is
going
down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop
hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed
neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have
all
been
here before, sadly.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "никиÑ,а Ñ,аÑ?аÑ
ов"
<ntarasov29@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until
she's
fully
available to NVDA.
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено из ÐYоÑ?Ñ,Ñ< Ð´Ð»Ñ Windows 10

ÐzÑ,: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено: 3 Ð½Ð¾Ñ Ð±Ñ?Ñ  2017 г. в 21:17
ÐsомÑf: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some
fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently
unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially
where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add
ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even
when I
put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and
install
them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the
screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in
again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case
prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also
does one
set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I
see it
wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the
reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but
for
now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I
could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to
what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average
unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the
page
is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You
just
here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be
altered,
I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I
could not
find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose
almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying
to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda,
and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to
do so
unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need
the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks
back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the
current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a
machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it
from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

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--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org








Re: NVDA and iTunes

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I have no reason to have Itunes, but they do have a history of when fixing one thing they break something else!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Otten" <motten53@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and iTunes


Thanks, David. I suppose the best I will be able to do in that regard is try to find the 12.63 version, since the current version is now 12.7. So if you go to get iTunes for the first time, 12.7 is going to be what they like to offer.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 6, 2017, at 8:56 AM, David Griffith <daj.griffith@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mary
NVDA works better I find than Jaws with iTunes in general.
Personally I am resisting the upgrade to 12.7 for the time being.
The secret with iTunes on Windows is pretty uch similar to that on the Mac.
You need to have your library sorted by songs and then you need to enable column browser withing the View Menu and check the categories you want in the column vbiew browser. I do not personally use Genre. I have columns for artist albums and songs. For music playing this works very nicely with NVDA and you have the added bonus of all the shortcut keys working. Unlike in jaws you can use control alt arrow keys to fast forward and backwards. Jaws annoyingly just says not in a table. .
Arguably iTunes on Windows is marginally easier to utilise than iTunes on the Mac as generally there is less need for interaction, and use of the F6 key and tabbing and cursor keys will get you to where you want to go pretty easily. Certainly I think that with column view properly enable iTunes provides the most accessible and easy music playing on Windows. With other layouts though I agree it is a nightmare.
Like on the Mac using the Find command, control F on windows will jump you to the area of iTunes where you can tab and easily move between the different parts of iTunes such as Music Library, Podcasts Video Store etc.

Personally I find the experience of playing Music better on Windows iTunes than on the Mac but I do find NVDA is more sluggish in the actual store and if you retain use of your Mac I would ;personally still tend to purchase Music on the Mac side.
The only other area in which NVDA can be sluggish is where you are defining Songs as your Library layout in the library sidebar view options. I think the default is albums, Normally I just focus on where it says Albums and press S for Songs and this should eventually change.
David Griffith
My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

From: Mary Otten
Sent: 06 November 2017 16:16
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and iTunes

I have been using a Mac for a long time, but as I’m sure most of you know by now, having seen my several messages on this list, I’m getting a new machine and will be using NVDA as my primary screen reader. I’m wondering about NVDA with iTunes. Latest release is 12.7, although I noticed they also have a 12.63, at least for the Mac. How is NVDA or narrator, but that’s for another list I guess, with iTunes? At some point, I could consider moving my iTunes library off of my Mac onto windows, since iTunes is still one of the big uses I have for the Mac.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone



Re: Firefox 57 etc

Tony Ballou
 

Hi Gene,


I've never  heard of this either, and we've been at this a long time, and when would you need to or want to do something like that anyway. To me it makes no sense. 


Tony 


On 11/6/2017 6:00 AM, Gene wrote:
If maihntenance service has bugs and problems, then why have we never heard a word about it before on the list?  I don't know where you saw this but without knowing where, I would be very skeptical of information from that source.  Firefox has been around, I believe, for over a decade yet I've never heard anything about the maintenance service not working properly. 
 
If you want to use an old vulnerable browser, that's your choice. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: zahra
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 4:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

i read maintenance service has many bugs and problems.
i never install it, i choose custom installation and unchecke its checkbox.
i never update my firefox and so, set it to never update and also
changed many uptions in about:config to be sure anythings never be
updated for me!
maintenance service is just for updating firefox without users
interaction and silently updates firefox without any notification!

On 11/6/17, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> All the update options are obvious.  There is an automatically update
> option, an option to notify you when an update is available and an option to
> never update.  I don't know if you are saying not all the update options are
> obviouls or not all the options available in the entire options dialog are
> obvious.
>
> If somene doesn't know how or has problems finding the update settings, how
> to find them can be explained and once explained, it shouldn't be difficult
> to find them.  But remopving the actual service itself is a really terrible
> idea.
>
> Gene
>
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 3:53 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc
>
>
> That is a bit of a sledgehammer way. You can set it in the options, but
> quite what all the choices do is not instantly obvious, except the one to
> say never update of course!
>  Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 6:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc
>
>
> just delete maintainance service in your control panel, i mean
> uninstall it and go to options, advance, update and set your desires.
>
> On 11/6/17, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:
>> How can I make sure Firefox won't update? I don't want my go-to browser
>> to be unusable!
>>
>>
>> On 6/11/2017 10:17 AM, Stephen wrote:
>>> I thought that was why there were beta versions before the main
>>> release, to get these issues ironed out in the first place?
>>> At 07:47 PM 11/5/2017, you wrote:
>>>> Well how does one actually get it to work then, I cannot get to
>>>> anything I can read in order to check if the option is set wrongly, I
>>>> was under the impression that it was supposed to be off by default.
>>>> this has not been my experience, either that or there are more
>>>> serious issues on the 32 bit version or it has problems in windows 7.
>>>> No My thrust and that of several others I know is that it has been
>>>> sprung on people. IE if there was a version of firefox that by
>>>> default could not be used by the sighted it would never leave the
>>>> developers.
>>>> My point is that I'm sick and tired of being a second class citizen
>>>> simply because I'm blind, and its about time these people got their
>>>> fingers out of their ears or wherever they put them, not wanting to
>>>> be rude and embraced accessibility at the start of a new concept not
>>>> half way through it.
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>> bglists@...
>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>> in the display name field.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Isige" <gwynn@...>
>>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 5:42 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My apologies, I misunderstood your rhetoric comment. That's what comes
>>>> of trying to do two things at once. Also to be clear, I'm not saying we
>>>> shouldn't question changes. I think it's fine and valuable to ask what
>>>> changes are being made and why they're being made. But there are some
>>>> people who seem to assume they're almost always bad and are the start
>>>> down a path for changes for the worst, it seems to me, and that's what
>>>> I
>>>> object to. As you say, and a few others have reported this here as
>>>> well,
>>>> the new Firefox with the option set correctly seems to be mostly fine,
>>>> if slow. And if not, as you've also pointed out, we have other browsers
>>>> to use until it gets straightened out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I also think it's valuable to point out that these aren't ham-fisted
>>>> sledgehammer changes, they are perhaps fairly large changes sure, but
>>>> they're not being done just because, they're being done for a perfectly
>>>> valid security reason. I figured I'd better provide examples instead of
>>>> just telling people it's an issue, now we can all see the potential
>>>> problems with code injection. I should add, I'm really glad the new
>>>> update is mostly fine, though I might use the extended release myself.
>>>> I
>>>> use Firefox as my daily browser and haven't really found any of the
>>>> others to my liking for various reasons, though I need to play with
>>>> them
>>>> some more because of course accessibility keeps improving for them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Man I remember the days of IE 6 or 7 when JFW's Firefox support wasn't
>>>> that great, and IE updated and JFW hadn't caught up yet. Called tech
>>>> support and they insisted I couldn't be running the new version of IE
>>>> because the new version of IE didn't work with JFW. At least we've got
>>>> some pretty decent alternatives nowadays. I'm not even sure if Firefox
>>>> was supported yet, it was ages ago when this happened, but I remember I
>>>> had all kinds of issues browsing until it got updated eventually. And
>>>> that line will stick in my head forever, "you can't be running that",
>>>> I'm like "dude it's right here on my machine"! I think I even cranked
>>>> speech up over the speakers and made it read the version number. Fun
>>>> times!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/4/2017 23:45, Ron Canazzi wrote:
>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Boy, you really like to press home a point. I didn't fundamentally
>>>>> disagree with you on any of that. In fact, according to beta testers,
>>>>> Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different
>>>>> than earlier versions. In addition, I have begun to use Edge for many
>>>>> things. The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a bit
>>>>> erratic in forms mode. For example on the Send Space page where you
>>>>> have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired,
>>>>> NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail this one
>>>>> down either later this year or early next year. I can use Edge for
>>>>> anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some
>>>>> difficulty.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind people who
>>>>> raised questions about changes in accessibility.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:
>>>>>> Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
>>>>>> Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are
>>>>>> complaining
>>>>>> about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
>>>>>> screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
>>>>>> injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
>>>>>> That's because screen readers are local though and not using
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
>>>>>> particularly note from the second link that the particular code
>>>>>> injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
>>>>>> local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number
>>>>>> written
>>>>>> down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is
>>>>>> another
>>>>>> way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change,
>>>>>> whether
>>>>>> or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just
>>>>>> rhetoric,
>>>>>> there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's
>>>>>> also a
>>>>>> way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve
>>>>>> code
>>>>>> injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why
>>>>>> everybody's
>>>>>> still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't
>>>>>> materialize
>>>>>> overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
>>>>>> worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain
>>>>>> things it
>>>>>> doesn't currently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
>>>>>> saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of
>>>>>> alternatives to
>>>>>> using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of
>>>>>> Firefox
>>>>>> if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or
>>>>>> Edge
>>>>>> until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked
>>>>>> out.
>>>>>> There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
>>>>>> will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the
>>>>>> road of
>>>>>> hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all
>>>>>> crewed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
>>>>>>> accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long as you
>>>>>>> don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by
>>>>>>> something is
>>>>>>> when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
>>>>>>> because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting
>>>>>>> hacked
>>>>>>> proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
>>>>>>> security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
>>>>>>> Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
>>>>>>> careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
>>>>>>>> If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> have seen this link.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and
>>>>>>>> also a
>>>>>>>> coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and
>>>>>>>> it was
>>>>>>>> going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do we have
>>>>>>>> several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
>>>>>>>> version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be
>>>>>>>> done to
>>>>>>>> make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
>>>>>>>> anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are
>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>> good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition
>>>>>>>> happens
>>>>>>>> to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand
>>>>>>>> scheme of
>>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
>>>>>>>>> also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> policy toward the VI community.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation
>>>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>>>> us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not
>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>> if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going
>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>> the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop
>>>>>>>>> hacking. He
>>>>>>>>> is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed
>>>>>>>>> neither
>>>>>>>>> am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
>>>>>>>>> advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all
>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>> here before, sadly.
>>>>>>>>> Brian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> bglists@...
>>>>>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>>>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>>>>>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "никиÑ,а Ñ,аÑ?Ð°Ñ Ð¾Ð²"
>>>>>>>>> <ntarasov29@...>
>>>>>>>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's
>>>>>>>>> fully
>>>>>>>>> available to NVDA.
>>>>>>>>> ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено из ÐYоÑ?Ñ,Ñ< длѠ Windows 10
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ÐzÑ,: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
>>>>>>>>> ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено: 3 Ð½Ð¾Ñ Ð±Ñ?Ñ  2017 г. в 21:17
>>>>>>>>> ÐsомÑf: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>>>>>> Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some
>>>>>>>>> fixing
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently
>>>>>>>>> unusable
>>>>>>>>> state.
>>>>>>>>> Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially
>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>> its a
>>>>>>>>> shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
>>>>>>>>> There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
>>>>>>>>> navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I
>>>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>> Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the
>>>>>>>>> screen of
>>>>>>>>> the add
>>>>>>>>> ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in
>>>>>>>>> again to
>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>> if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case
>>>>>>>>> prior
>>>>>>>>> to up
>>>>>>>>> and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one
>>>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>>>> 52 to
>>>>>>>>> get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it
>>>>>>>>> wants
>>>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>>>> till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
>>>>>>>>> Brian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> bglists@...
>>>>>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>>>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>>>>>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
>>>>>>>>> <lowvisiontek@...>
>>>>>>>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi, Brian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the
>>>>>>>>>> reason
>>>>>>>>>> why I
>>>>>>>>>> keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for
>>>>>>>>>> now I
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
>>>>>>>>>> performance
>>>>>>>>>> and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I
>>>>>>>>>> could go
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> to use and test it again.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Robert Mendoza
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>>>>>> posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
>>>>>>>>>>> updater
>>>>>>>>>>> found.
>>>>>>>>>>> After installation only the menus work, no content on the page
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just
>>>>>>>>>>> here
>>>>>>>>>>> unknown.
>>>>>>>>>>> Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered,
>>>>>>>>>>> I do
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>> option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
>>>>>>>>>>> of my
>>>>>>>>>>> bookmarks as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying
>>>>>>>>>>> to use
>>>>>>>>>>> Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda,
>>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>>> am up
>>>>>>>>>>> to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
>>>>>>>>>>> unless
>>>>>>>>>>> they know how to make it work.
>>>>>>>>>>> If these people are employees then they will probably need the
>>>>>>>>>>> permission
>>>>>>>>>>> of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
>>>>>>>>>>> updates. I
>>>>>>>>>>> have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
>>>>>>>>>>> well as
>>>>>>>>>>> functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
>>>>>>>>>>> state of
>>>>>>>>>>> play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a
>>>>>>>>>>> machine
>>>>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>>>>> similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
>>>>>>>>>>> updating
>>>>>>>>>>> to an unworkable version.
>>>>>>>>>>> I cannot understand why they have not done this.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone care to comment?
>>>>>>>>>>> Brian
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> bglists@...
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>>>>>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>>>>>>>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>>>>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
> in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
> indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
> www.al-islam.org
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org





Re: Firefox 57 etc

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I agree, but some people will be a little suspicious of anything able to update their system unannounced. although I have a certain sympathy with this, I do feel it might be a little unfair in this instance as long as you set it to only update when i agree in the settings.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Gee--how come the rest of us haven't heard of this so-called bug?




On 11/6/2017 2:31 AM, zahra wrote:
i read maintenance service has many bugs and problems.
i never install it, i choose custom installation and unchecke its checkbox.
i never update my firefox and so, set it to never update and also
changed many uptions in about:config to be sure anythings never be
updated for me!
maintenance service is just for updating firefox without users
interaction and silently updates firefox without any notification!

On 11/6/17, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
All the update options are obvious. There is an automatically update
option, an option to notify you when an update is available and an option to
never update. I don't know if you are saying not all the update options are
obviouls or not all the options available in the entire options dialog are
obvious.

If somene doesn't know how or has problems finding the update settings, how
to find them can be explained and once explained, it shouldn't be difficult
to find them. But remopving the actual service itself is a really terrible
idea.

Gene


From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 3:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


That is a bit of a sledgehammer way. You can set it in the options, but
quite what all the choices do is not instantly obvious, except the one to
say never update of course!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


just delete maintainance service in your control panel, i mean
uninstall it and go to options, advance, update and set your desires.

On 11/6/17, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com> wrote:
How can I make sure Firefox won't update? I don't want my go-to browser
to be unusable!


On 6/11/2017 10:17 AM, Stephen wrote:
I thought that was why there were beta versions before the main
release, to get these issues ironed out in the first place?
At 07:47 PM 11/5/2017, you wrote:
Well how does one actually get it to work then, I cannot get to
anything I can read in order to check if the option is set wrongly, I
was under the impression that it was supposed to be off by default.
this has not been my experience, either that or there are more
serious issues on the 32 bit version or it has problems in windows 7.
No My thrust and that of several others I know is that it has been
sprung on people. IE if there was a version of firefox that by
default could not be used by the sighted it would never leave the
developers.
My point is that I'm sick and tired of being a second class citizen
simply because I'm blind, and its about time these people got their
fingers out of their ears or wherever they put them, not wanting to
be rude and embraced accessibility at the start of a new concept not
half way through it.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


My apologies, I misunderstood your rhetoric comment. That's what comes
of trying to do two things at once. Also to be clear, I'm not saying we
shouldn't question changes. I think it's fine and valuable to ask what
changes are being made and why they're being made. But there are some
people who seem to assume they're almost always bad and are the start
down a path for changes for the worst, it seems to me, and that's what
I
object to. As you say, and a few others have reported this here as
well,
the new Firefox with the option set correctly seems to be mostly fine,
if slow. And if not, as you've also pointed out, we have other browsers
to use until it gets straightened out.


I also think it's valuable to point out that these aren't ham-fisted
sledgehammer changes, they are perhaps fairly large changes sure, but
they're not being done just because, they're being done for a perfectly
valid security reason. I figured I'd better provide examples instead of
just telling people it's an issue, now we can all see the potential
problems with code injection. I should add, I'm really glad the new
update is mostly fine, though I might use the extended release myself.
I
use Firefox as my daily browser and haven't really found any of the
others to my liking for various reasons, though I need to play with
them
some more because of course accessibility keeps improving for them.


Man I remember the days of IE 6 or 7 when JFW's Firefox support wasn't
that great, and IE updated and JFW hadn't caught up yet. Called tech
support and they insisted I couldn't be running the new version of IE
because the new version of IE didn't work with JFW. At least we've got
some pretty decent alternatives nowadays. I'm not even sure if Firefox
was supported yet, it was ages ago when this happened, but I remember I
had all kinds of issues browsing until it got updated eventually. And
that line will stick in my head forever, "you can't be running that",
I'm like "dude it's right here on my machine"! I think I even cranked
speech up over the speakers and made it read the version number. Fun
times!


On 11/4/2017 23:45, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Boy, you really like to press home a point. I didn't fundamentally
disagree with you on any of that. In fact, according to beta testers,
Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different
than earlier versions. In addition, I have begun to use Edge for many
things. The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a bit
erratic in forms mode. For example on the Send Space page where you
have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired,
NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail this one
down either later this year or early next year. I can use Edge for
anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some
difficulty.


I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind people who
raised questions about changes in accessibility.



On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:
Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/





And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/





The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are
complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using
something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number
written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it
could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is
another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change,
whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just
rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's
also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve
code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge
because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why
everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't
materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain
things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of
alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of
Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or
Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked
out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the
road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all
crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I
don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by
something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting
hacked
proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you
would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/






Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and
also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day,
but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should
have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and
it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be
done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I
get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are
actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition
happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand
scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its
not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about
their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation
takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not
sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going
down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop
hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed
neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all
been
here before, sadly.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message ----- From: "никиÑ,а Ñ,аÑ?Ð°Ñ Ð¾Ð²"
<ntarasov29@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's
fully
available to NVDA.
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено из ÐYоÑ?Ñ,Ñ< Ð´Ð»Ñ Windows 10

ÐzÑ,: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено: 3 Ð½Ð¾Ñ Ð±Ñ?Ñ 2017 г. в 21:17
ÐsомÑf: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some
fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently
unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially
where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I
put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install
them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the
screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in
again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case
prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one
set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it
wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the
reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for
now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I
could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page
is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just
here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered,
I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying
to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda,
and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a
machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

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we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org







Re: Problem with my screen

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

If you get a sighted person to disable nvda or turn it off does the screen then work. I guess what I'm saying is, is this a driver issue or an nvda issue. I have noted that for example the place you are reading in a web page is often not on screen as nvda is working from its own buffer, but not whole programs being hidden.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: <prem.translator@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with my screen


I use Windows 7, 32 bit with NVDA 2017.1

The situation always happens when I open many things at the same time and go to each of them using Alt + Tab. When I back to WordPad, nothing appear on my screen, but everything works well with screen reader.


Re: Issue with Outlook crashing

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

To be honest I've read messages about any Outlook from 2003 to current crashing in various ways with nvda and 10 etc, and wondered what they are going to do. Looks to me like Office versions still in life cycle will get a fix but not the older ones.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Robinson" <ian228@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issue with Outlook crashing


Hi,

Apparently Microsoft have fixed the issue, but the fix won't be released until December.
Here's a link where the issue was discussed.


https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/7556

Regards.

Ian


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Amos Miller via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 November 2017 07:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Issue with Outlook crashing

Hi there I'm new to NVDA and love it. Using the latest version and desktop Outlook on Office2016. If I switch from mail to calendar using CTRL+2 which is the shortcut key, Outlook crashes. This issue doesn't happen if I tab to the navigation pane and move to Calendar there. This only happens with NVDA, not with JAWS or Narrator. Any thoughts?

Amos


Re: Firefox 57 etc

Tony Ballou
 

Hi,


Since when?  I've Never heard of such anywhere on any email list whether
it be related to assistive technology or the mainstream I T based, ones.
and have been using Firefox going back to the early days of windows XP.
Like Gene, I'm also not sold on this.


Tony

On 11/6/2017 5:31 AM, zahra wrote:
i read maintenance service has many bugs and problems.
i never install it, i choose custom installation and unchecke its checkbox.
i never update my firefox and so, set it to never update and also
changed many uptions in about:config to be sure anythings never be
updated for me!
maintenance service is just for updating firefox without users
interaction and silently updates firefox without any notification!

On 11/6/17, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
All the update options are obvious. There is an automatically update
option, an option to notify you when an update is available and an option to
never update. I don't know if you are saying not all the update options are
obviouls or not all the options available in the entire options dialog are
obvious.

If somene doesn't know how or has problems finding the update settings, how
to find them can be explained and once explained, it shouldn't be difficult
to find them. But remopving the actual service itself is a really terrible
idea.

Gene


From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 3:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


That is a bit of a sledgehammer way. You can set it in the options, but
quite what all the choices do is not instantly obvious, except the one to
say never update of course!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


just delete maintainance service in your control panel, i mean
uninstall it and go to options, advance, update and set your desires.

On 11/6/17, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com> wrote:
How can I make sure Firefox won't update? I don't want my go-to browser
to be unusable!


On 6/11/2017 10:17 AM, Stephen wrote:
I thought that was why there were beta versions before the main
release, to get these issues ironed out in the first place?
At 07:47 PM 11/5/2017, you wrote:
Well how does one actually get it to work then, I cannot get to
anything I can read in order to check if the option is set wrongly, I
was under the impression that it was supposed to be off by default.
this has not been my experience, either that or there are more
serious issues on the 32 bit version or it has problems in windows 7.
No My thrust and that of several others I know is that it has been
sprung on people. IE if there was a version of firefox that by
default could not be used by the sighted it would never leave the
developers.
My point is that I'm sick and tired of being a second class citizen
simply because I'm blind, and its about time these people got their
fingers out of their ears or wherever they put them, not wanting to
be rude and embraced accessibility at the start of a new concept not
half way through it.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


My apologies, I misunderstood your rhetoric comment. That's what comes
of trying to do two things at once. Also to be clear, I'm not saying we
shouldn't question changes. I think it's fine and valuable to ask what
changes are being made and why they're being made. But there are some
people who seem to assume they're almost always bad and are the start
down a path for changes for the worst, it seems to me, and that's what
I
object to. As you say, and a few others have reported this here as
well,
the new Firefox with the option set correctly seems to be mostly fine,
if slow. And if not, as you've also pointed out, we have other browsers
to use until it gets straightened out.


I also think it's valuable to point out that these aren't ham-fisted
sledgehammer changes, they are perhaps fairly large changes sure, but
they're not being done just because, they're being done for a perfectly
valid security reason. I figured I'd better provide examples instead of
just telling people it's an issue, now we can all see the potential
problems with code injection. I should add, I'm really glad the new
update is mostly fine, though I might use the extended release myself.
I
use Firefox as my daily browser and haven't really found any of the
others to my liking for various reasons, though I need to play with
them
some more because of course accessibility keeps improving for them.


Man I remember the days of IE 6 or 7 when JFW's Firefox support wasn't
that great, and IE updated and JFW hadn't caught up yet. Called tech
support and they insisted I couldn't be running the new version of IE
because the new version of IE didn't work with JFW. At least we've got
some pretty decent alternatives nowadays. I'm not even sure if Firefox
was supported yet, it was ages ago when this happened, but I remember I
had all kinds of issues browsing until it got updated eventually. And
that line will stick in my head forever, "you can't be running that",
I'm like "dude it's right here on my machine"! I think I even cranked
speech up over the speakers and made it read the version number. Fun
times!


On 11/4/2017 23:45, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Boy, you really like to press home a point. I didn't fundamentally
disagree with you on any of that. In fact, according to beta testers,
Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different
than earlier versions. In addition, I have begun to use Edge for many
things. The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a bit
erratic in forms mode. For example on the Send Space page where you
have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired,
NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail this one
down either later this year or early next year. I can use Edge for
anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some
difficulty.


I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind people who
raised questions about changes in accessibility.



On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:
Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/





And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/





The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are
complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using
something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number
written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it
could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is
another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change,
whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just
rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's
also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve
code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge
because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why
everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't
materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain
things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of
alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of
Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or
Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked
out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the
road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all
crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I
don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by
something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting
hacked
proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you
would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/






Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and
also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day,
but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should
have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and
it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be
done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I
get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are
actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition
happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand
scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its
not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about
their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation
takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not
sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going
down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop
hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed
neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all
been
here before, sadly.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "никиÑ,а Ñ,аÑ?Ð°Ñ Ð¾Ð²"
<ntarasov29@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's
fully
available to NVDA.
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено из ÐYоÑ?Ñ,Ñ< Ð´Ð»Ñ Windows 10

ÐzÑ,: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено: 3 Ð½Ð¾Ñ Ð±Ñ?Ñ 2017 г. в 21:17
ÐsомÑf: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some
fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently
unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially
where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I
put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install
them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the
screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in
again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case
prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one
set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it
wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the
reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for
now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I
could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page
is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just
here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered,
I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying
to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda,
and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a
machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

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--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org






Re: Firefox 57 etc

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well yes, to a point but you do want any security updates, but do not want the newest version if it does give you grief, without that service no updates will happen and when you do update manually it will reinstall that service so you need to keep unchecking it which seems an awful lot of trouble to go to if an alternative way of allowing just the updates you want is available to me.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


i read maintenance service has many bugs and problems.
i never install it, i choose custom installation and unchecke its checkbox.
i never update my firefox and so, set it to never update and also
changed many uptions in about:config to be sure anythings never be
updated for me!
maintenance service is just for updating firefox without users
interaction and silently updates firefox without any notification!

On 11/6/17, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
All the update options are obvious. There is an automatically update
option, an option to notify you when an update is available and an option to
never update. I don't know if you are saying not all the update options are
obviouls or not all the options available in the entire options dialog are
obvious.

If somene doesn't know how or has problems finding the update settings, how
to find them can be explained and once explained, it shouldn't be difficult
to find them. But remopving the actual service itself is a really terrible
idea.

Gene


From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 3:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


That is a bit of a sledgehammer way. You can set it in the options, but
quite what all the choices do is not instantly obvious, except the one to
say never update of course!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


just delete maintainance service in your control panel, i mean
uninstall it and go to options, advance, update and set your desires.

On 11/6/17, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com> wrote:
How can I make sure Firefox won't update? I don't want my go-to browser
to be unusable!


On 6/11/2017 10:17 AM, Stephen wrote:
I thought that was why there were beta versions before the main
release, to get these issues ironed out in the first place?
At 07:47 PM 11/5/2017, you wrote:
Well how does one actually get it to work then, I cannot get to
anything I can read in order to check if the option is set wrongly, I
was under the impression that it was supposed to be off by default.
this has not been my experience, either that or there are more
serious issues on the 32 bit version or it has problems in windows 7.
No My thrust and that of several others I know is that it has been
sprung on people. IE if there was a version of firefox that by
default could not be used by the sighted it would never leave the
developers.
My point is that I'm sick and tired of being a second class citizen
simply because I'm blind, and its about time these people got their
fingers out of their ears or wherever they put them, not wanting to
be rude and embraced accessibility at the start of a new concept not
half way through it.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


My apologies, I misunderstood your rhetoric comment. That's what comes
of trying to do two things at once. Also to be clear, I'm not saying we
shouldn't question changes. I think it's fine and valuable to ask what
changes are being made and why they're being made. But there are some
people who seem to assume they're almost always bad and are the start
down a path for changes for the worst, it seems to me, and that's what
I
object to. As you say, and a few others have reported this here as
well,
the new Firefox with the option set correctly seems to be mostly fine,
if slow. And if not, as you've also pointed out, we have other browsers
to use until it gets straightened out.


I also think it's valuable to point out that these aren't ham-fisted
sledgehammer changes, they are perhaps fairly large changes sure, but
they're not being done just because, they're being done for a perfectly
valid security reason. I figured I'd better provide examples instead of
just telling people it's an issue, now we can all see the potential
problems with code injection. I should add, I'm really glad the new
update is mostly fine, though I might use the extended release myself.
I
use Firefox as my daily browser and haven't really found any of the
others to my liking for various reasons, though I need to play with
them
some more because of course accessibility keeps improving for them.


Man I remember the days of IE 6 or 7 when JFW's Firefox support wasn't
that great, and IE updated and JFW hadn't caught up yet. Called tech
support and they insisted I couldn't be running the new version of IE
because the new version of IE didn't work with JFW. At least we've got
some pretty decent alternatives nowadays. I'm not even sure if Firefox
was supported yet, it was ages ago when this happened, but I remember I
had all kinds of issues browsing until it got updated eventually. And
that line will stick in my head forever, "you can't be running that",
I'm like "dude it's right here on my machine"! I think I even cranked
speech up over the speakers and made it read the version number. Fun
times!


On 11/4/2017 23:45, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Boy, you really like to press home a point. I didn't fundamentally
disagree with you on any of that. In fact, according to beta testers,
Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different
than earlier versions. In addition, I have begun to use Edge for many
things. The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a bit
erratic in forms mode. For example on the Send Space page where you
have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired,
NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail this one
down either later this year or early next year. I can use Edge for
anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some
difficulty.


I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind people who
raised questions about changes in accessibility.



On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:
Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/





And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/





The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are
complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using
something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number
written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it
could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is
another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change,
whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just
rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's
also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve
code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge
because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why
everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't
materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain
things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of
alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of
Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or
Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked
out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the
road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all
crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I
don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by
something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting
hacked
proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you
would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/






Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and
also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day,
but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should
have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and
it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be
done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I
get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are
actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition
happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand
scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its
not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about
their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation
takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not
sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going
down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop
hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed
neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all
been
here before, sadly.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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----- Original Message ----- From: "никиÑ,а Ñ,аÑ?Ð°Ñ Ð¾Ð²"
<ntarasov29@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's
fully
available to NVDA.
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено из ÐYоÑ?Ñ,Ñ< Ð´Ð»Ñ Windows 10

ÐzÑ,: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено: 3 Ð½Ð¾Ñ Ð±Ñ?Ñ 2017 г. в 21:17
ÐsомÑf: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some
fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently
unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially
where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I
put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install
them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the
screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in
again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case
prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one
set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it
wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the
reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for
now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I
could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page
is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just
here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered,
I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying
to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda,
and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a
machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

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--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org






--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: EXTRA ANNOUNCEMENTS

Rob Hudson
 

Howard Traxler <howard@traxlerenterprises.com> wrote:
When going through my list of emails, NVDA announces "From", "subject", and
"received". As these things are quite obvious and these are just extra
sylables that slow things down, is there a way to turn off these
announcements?
Go into document formatting with control+NVDA+D and uncheck
"Row/Column Headers"
That will fix your extra verbiage.


Re: NVDA and iTunes

Mary Otten <motten53@...>
 

Thanks, David. I suppose the best I will be able to do in that regard is try to find the 12.63 version, since the current version is now 12.7. So if you go to get iTunes for the first time, 12.7 is going to be what they like to offer.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 6, 2017, at 8:56 AM, David Griffith <daj.griffith@...> wrote:

Dear Mary

NVDA works better I find than Jaws with iTunes in general.

Personally I am resisting the upgrade to 12.7 for the time being.

The secret with iTunes on Windows is pretty uch similar to that on the Mac.

You need to have your library sorted by songs and then you need to enable column browser withing the View Menu and check the categories you want in the column vbiew browser. I do not personally use Genre. I have columns for artist albums and songs. For music playing this works very nicely with NVDA and you have the added bonus of all the shortcut keys working. Unlike in jaws you can use control alt arrow keys to fast forward and backwards. Jaws annoyingly just says not in a table. .

Arguably iTunes on Windows is marginally easier to utilise than iTunes on the Mac as generally there is less need for interaction,   and use of the F6 key and tabbing and cursor keys will get you to where you want to go pretty easily. Certainly I think that with column view properly enable iTunes provides the most accessible and easy music playing on Windows. With other layouts though I agree it is a nightmare.

Like on the Mac using the Find command, control F on windows will jump you to the area of iTunes where you can tab and easily  move between the different parts of iTunes such as Music Library, Podcasts  Video Store etc.

 

Personally I find the experience of playing Music better on Windows iTunes than on the Mac but I do find NVDA is more sluggish in the actual store and if you retain use of your Mac I would ;personally still  tend to purchase Music on the Mac side.

The only other area in which NVDA can be sluggish is where you are defining Songs as your Library layout in the library sidebar view options. I think the default is albums, Normally I just focus on where it says Albums and press S for Songs and this should eventually change.

David Griffith

My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

 

From: Mary Otten
Sent: 06 November 2017 16:16
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and iTunes

 

I have been using a Mac for a long time, but as I’m sure most of you know by now, having  seen my several messages on this list, I’m getting a new machine and will be using NVDA as my primary screen reader. I’m wondering about NVDA with iTunes. Latest release is 12.7, although I noticed they also have a 12.63, at least for the Mac. How is NVDA or narrator, but that’s for another list I guess, with iTunes? At some point, I could consider moving my iTunes library off of my Mac onto windows, since iTunes is still one of the big uses I have for the Mac.

Mary

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

 


Re: NVDA and GooglrChrome

Gene
 

There is no trouble.  You can just use the portable version that is the ESR version.  It's a good idea to have more than one browser available because at times, one browser works better on a site or does something another browser doesn't do.  But switching at this time is very premature if the only reason is because of the accessibility problems in the upcoming version.  The ESR (extended release) version is current until June of next year and will receive security updates until then.  If you use the portable ESR version, you can leave the installed version installed and use the portable version until it becomes evident whether the accessibility problems will be solved by the time the ESR version is no longer current. 
 
Chrome is pretty accessible these days and browsing is either as good from an accessibility standpoint or almost as good as with Firefox.  The actual interface isn't as convenient to use and you have to manually switch between browse mode and forms mode, depending on the screen-reader, when working with settings and perhaps history.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 9:29 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and GooglrChrome

Hi,
WIth all the trouble with Firefox, I'm considering switching to
GoogleChrome. How well does NVDA work with that web brouser?



Re: NVDA and iTunes

Michal Rada
 

Most elements are regularly spoken, unfortunatelly in some cases, for example in some dynamic lists of songs in album, NVDA feel litle fool. :-) But, itunes is most accessible, for basic using. You can focus elements by using TAB and SHIFT+TAB and using all buttons, checkboxes, etc. But, there are many issues in dynamic HTML areas in itunes (for example in Store).

Michal


Dne 6.11.2017 v 17:16 Mary Otten napsal(a):

I have been using a Mac for a long time, but as I’m sure most of you know by now, having seen my several messages on this list, I’m getting a new machine and will be using NVDA as my primary screen reader. I’m wondering about NVDA with iTunes. Latest release is 12.7, although I noticed they also have a 12.63, at least for the Mac. How is NVDA or narrator, but that’s for another list I guess, with iTunes? At some point, I could consider moving my iTunes library off of my Mac onto windows, since iTunes is still one of the big uses I have for the Mac.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


Re: NVDA and iTunes

David Griffith
 

Dear Mary

NVDA works better I find than Jaws with iTunes in general.

Personally I am resisting the upgrade to 12.7 for the time being.

The secret with iTunes on Windows is pretty uch similar to that on the Mac.

You need to have your library sorted by songs and then you need to enable column browser withing the View Menu and check the categories you want in the column vbiew browser. I do not personally use Genre. I have columns for artist albums and songs. For music playing this works very nicely with NVDA and you have the added bonus of all the shortcut keys working. Unlike in jaws you can use control alt arrow keys to fast forward and backwards. Jaws annoyingly just says not in a table. .

Arguably iTunes on Windows is marginally easier to utilise than iTunes on the Mac as generally there is less need for interaction,   and use of the F6 key and tabbing and cursor keys will get you to where you want to go pretty easily. Certainly I think that with column view properly enable iTunes provides the most accessible and easy music playing on Windows. With other layouts though I agree it is a nightmare.

Like on the Mac using the Find command, control F on windows will jump you to the area of iTunes where you can tab and easily  move between the different parts of iTunes such as Music Library, Podcasts  Video Store etc.

 

Personally I find the experience of playing Music better on Windows iTunes than on the Mac but I do find NVDA is more sluggish in the actual store and if you retain use of your Mac I would ;personally still  tend to purchase Music on the Mac side.

The only other area in which NVDA can be sluggish is where you are defining Songs as your Library layout in the library sidebar view options. I think the default is albums, Normally I just focus on where it says Albums and press S for Songs and this should eventually change.

David Griffith

My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

 

From: Mary Otten
Sent: 06 November 2017 16:16
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and iTunes

 

I have been using a Mac for a long time, but as I’m sure most of you know by now, having  seen my several messages on this list, I’m getting a new machine and will be using NVDA as my primary screen reader. I’m wondering about NVDA with iTunes. Latest release is 12.7, although I noticed they also have a 12.63, at least for the Mac. How is NVDA or narrator, but that’s for another list I guess, with iTunes? At some point, I could consider moving my iTunes library off of my Mac onto windows, since iTunes is still one of the big uses I have for the Mac.

Mary

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

 


Re: Firefox 57 etc

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Gee--how come the rest of us haven't heard of this so-called bug?

On 11/6/2017 2:31 AM, zahra wrote:
i read maintenance service has many bugs and problems.
i never install it, i choose custom installation and unchecke its checkbox.
i never update my firefox and so, set it to never update and also
changed many uptions in about:config to be sure anythings never be
updated for me!
maintenance service is just for updating firefox without users
interaction and silently updates firefox without any notification!

On 11/6/17, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
All the update options are obvious. There is an automatically update
option, an option to notify you when an update is available and an option to
never update. I don't know if you are saying not all the update options are
obviouls or not all the options available in the entire options dialog are
obvious.

If somene doesn't know how or has problems finding the update settings, how
to find them can be explained and once explained, it shouldn't be difficult
to find them. But remopving the actual service itself is a really terrible
idea.

Gene


From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 3:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


That is a bit of a sledgehammer way. You can set it in the options, but
quite what all the choices do is not instantly obvious, except the one to
say never update of course!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


just delete maintainance service in your control panel, i mean
uninstall it and go to options, advance, update and set your desires.

On 11/6/17, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com> wrote:
How can I make sure Firefox won't update? I don't want my go-to browser
to be unusable!


On 6/11/2017 10:17 AM, Stephen wrote:
I thought that was why there were beta versions before the main
release, to get these issues ironed out in the first place?
At 07:47 PM 11/5/2017, you wrote:
Well how does one actually get it to work then, I cannot get to
anything I can read in order to check if the option is set wrongly, I
was under the impression that it was supposed to be off by default.
this has not been my experience, either that or there are more
serious issues on the 32 bit version or it has problems in windows 7.
No My thrust and that of several others I know is that it has been
sprung on people. IE if there was a version of firefox that by
default could not be used by the sighted it would never leave the
developers.
My point is that I'm sick and tired of being a second class citizen
simply because I'm blind, and its about time these people got their
fingers out of their ears or wherever they put them, not wanting to
be rude and embraced accessibility at the start of a new concept not
half way through it.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


My apologies, I misunderstood your rhetoric comment. That's what comes
of trying to do two things at once. Also to be clear, I'm not saying we
shouldn't question changes. I think it's fine and valuable to ask what
changes are being made and why they're being made. But there are some
people who seem to assume they're almost always bad and are the start
down a path for changes for the worst, it seems to me, and that's what
I
object to. As you say, and a few others have reported this here as
well,
the new Firefox with the option set correctly seems to be mostly fine,
if slow. And if not, as you've also pointed out, we have other browsers
to use until it gets straightened out.


I also think it's valuable to point out that these aren't ham-fisted
sledgehammer changes, they are perhaps fairly large changes sure, but
they're not being done just because, they're being done for a perfectly
valid security reason. I figured I'd better provide examples instead of
just telling people it's an issue, now we can all see the potential
problems with code injection. I should add, I'm really glad the new
update is mostly fine, though I might use the extended release myself.
I
use Firefox as my daily browser and haven't really found any of the
others to my liking for various reasons, though I need to play with
them
some more because of course accessibility keeps improving for them.


Man I remember the days of IE 6 or 7 when JFW's Firefox support wasn't
that great, and IE updated and JFW hadn't caught up yet. Called tech
support and they insisted I couldn't be running the new version of IE
because the new version of IE didn't work with JFW. At least we've got
some pretty decent alternatives nowadays. I'm not even sure if Firefox
was supported yet, it was ages ago when this happened, but I remember I
had all kinds of issues browsing until it got updated eventually. And
that line will stick in my head forever, "you can't be running that",
I'm like "dude it's right here on my machine"! I think I even cranked
speech up over the speakers and made it read the version number. Fun
times!


On 11/4/2017 23:45, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Boy, you really like to press home a point. I didn't fundamentally
disagree with you on any of that. In fact, according to beta testers,
Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different
than earlier versions. In addition, I have begun to use Edge for many
things. The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a bit
erratic in forms mode. For example on the Send Space page where you
have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired,
NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail this one
down either later this year or early next year. I can use Edge for
anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some
difficulty.


I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind people who
raised questions about changes in accessibility.



On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:
Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/





And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/





The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are
complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using
something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number
written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it
could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is
another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change,
whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just
rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's
also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve
code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge
because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why
everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't
materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain
things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of
alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of
Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or
Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is worked
out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the
road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all
crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I
don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by
something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting
hacked
proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you
would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/






Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and
also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day,
but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably should
have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and
it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be
done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to wonder. I
get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are
actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition
happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand
scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its
not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about
their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that organisation
takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not
sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is going
down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop
hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed
neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have all
been
here before, sadly.
Brian

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Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message ----- From: "никиÑ,а Ñ,аÑ?Ð°Ñ Ð¾Ð²"
<ntarasov29@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until she's
fully
available to NVDA.
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено из ÐYоÑ?Ñ,Ñ< Ð´Ð»Ñ Windows 10

ÐzÑ,: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено: 3 Ð½Ð¾Ñ Ð±Ñ?Ñ 2017 г. в 21:17
ÐsомÑf: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some
fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently
unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially
where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even when I
put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and install
them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the
screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in
again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case
prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also does one
set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I see it
wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the
reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but for
now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I
could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the page
is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You just
here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be altered,
I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I could not
find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying
to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda,
and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to do so
unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a
machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

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NVDA and iTunes

Mary Otten <motten53@...>
 

I have been using a Mac for a long time, but as I’m sure most of you know by now, having seen my several messages on this list, I’m getting a new machine and will be using NVDA as my primary screen reader. I’m wondering about NVDA with iTunes. Latest release is 12.7, although I noticed they also have a 12.63, at least for the Mac. How is NVDA or narrator, but that’s for another list I guess, with iTunes? At some point, I could consider moving my iTunes library off of my Mac onto windows, since iTunes is still one of the big uses I have for the Mac.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


Re: NVDA and GooglrChrome

Don H
 

My primary screen reader is NVDA and my primary browser is Chrome and they work well together.

On 11/6/2017 9:29 AM, Chris Shook wrote:
Hi,
WIth all the trouble with Firefox, I'm considering switching to GoogleChrome. How well does NVDA work with that web brouser?