Date   

Re: [atig-nz] Important notices re software updates

 

Hi.

This came from another list about the firefox 57 roadmap.

The new system is coming and its going to be slow and will remain like that to 58, then get better on 59.

At least mozilla deem it necessary to release a comprihensive report at users.

While a little slower waterfox uses the same engine and so I may just use that though I am adicted to the mozilla suite so would much rather stay with that.




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: [atig-nz] Important notices re software updates
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 20:10:13 +0000
From: Kenny Dog hurrikennyandopo@... [atig-nz] <atig-nz@...>
Reply-To: atig-nz@...
To: atig-nz@... <atig-nz@...>


Hi guys


If you are wondering also where NVDA is up to regarding fire fox 57 and where we might be at from a users prospective the following blog may give you a idea at https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/11/07/firefox-57-nvda-users-perspective/


If you decide to go down to the fire fox version 52 that is mentioned please do.

If you decide to ride the changes and test please report any bugs so they can be fixed quicker.

We can also use other compatible browsers like chrome, edge etc until it is sorted out.

Gene nz

On 10/26/2017 11:25 AM, Michael Law mlaw@...<mailto:mlaw@...> [atig-nz] wrote:

A couple of notes to be aware of regarding software updates:

Windows 10 upgrade –

Microsoft have now officially announced that the free upgrade to Windows
10 for people who are using adaptive technology will come to an end at
the end of this year. So your choice is to either upgrade to Windows 10
for free before the end of this year or if you aren't in a hurry to
upgrade to Windows 10 you can pay for the upgrade at some stage after
the end of this year. This announcement and other details about the Fall
Creators' Update to Windows 10 that has just been released can be found at

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2017/10/17/windows-10-accessibility-update/



Mozilla Firefox –

See the below post for detailed information, but the “in a nutshell” version, the forthcoming Firefox version, while being compatible with your latest version of JAWS (or any screen reader for that matter), will be much slower than you would be used to. Your options are to install a different Firefox version that will forestall the update, or switch to something else like chrome. Details in the following blog post:

http://blog.freedomscientific.com/2017/10/25/important-information-for-users-of-mozilla-firefox/

Michael Law
Adaptive Technology Specialist
Blind Foundation
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Hamilton
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Blindfoundation.org.nz<https://blindfoundation.org.nz>


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Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Help please with NVDA and Microsoft office 2017 spell checker

Jo Collingwood
 

The layout is different from 2010 and it doesn’t read which word comes up to check the spelling. Also number pad 5 read current word/ spell current word doesn’t work in this spell check


Re: Oddity With NVDA, Other Screen Readers and BJ's Wholesale Web Page

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Brian,


Now this is getting to be really weird.  I tried the page in The Edge browser with the same results.  I tried it in Internet Explorer and it seems to read normally--except when you review each character in the prices, you get a figure without a decimal point.  Somehow, Internet Explorer is seeing some sort of hidden code and the screen readers are reading the price correctly, but individual characters show no decimal point.  If anyone doubts what I'm saying, do the comparison yourself with the 3 browsers: Firefox, Edge and Internet Explorer.

On 11/7/2017 4:45 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Seems to be a firefox thing, prices are said differently in IE11.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 8:51 AM
Subject: [nvda] Oddity With NVDA, Other Screen Readers and BJ's Wholesale Web Page


Hi Group,


If you visit the web address for BJ's Wholesale Black Friday preview:

http://www.bjs.com/blackfriday.content.minisite_blackfriday2017.B#/bflist/Week


you will swee the prices on some of the items read very strangely.


I tried with the E-Speak synthesizer, the SAPI 5 Eloquence voice, the Microsoft Core Voices and with JAWS and they all read the same.


What is causing this? Is it really a massive misprint? Or is it just an oddity with the way numbers and dollars expressions are rendered to screen readers on this particular page?

lry strange. for example, the televsions like Samsung have a listed price of $99999

--
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--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: firefox thing fixed maybe

 

AAh, well that will explain then why people have addons that do not work anymore.

Its a pitty some of these are not updated anymore.

However if ff is that bad I will be switching to waterfox which still uses the old gecco engine however its not mozilla though it still gets updates.

Its good to know that if mozilla doesn't play ball I can switch to another brouser that will.

Ofcause this thing may be lagging behind so eventually it may upgrade to the newer interface.

On 7/11/2017 10:50 p.m., zahra wrote:
hello.
there are alternative for legacy addons in firefox 57 or newer as i heard!
God bless you all!

On 11/7/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi.

I have noticed on firefox that a lot of addons I use say legacy though
they work including navigation sounds, better privacy and noscript, does
this mean they are not being maintained or something.

However on that note, has anyone tried to use waterfox instead of firefox.

I tried it for a bit, and it seems to be a likely choice with all addons
working if mozilla doesn't get its a into g then it maybe another option
for us at least for the moment unless those guys upgrade to the crazy
engine mozilla is going to do.

From pages it appears they use the old style firefox engine and
interfaces from 55x maybe they are a port.

addons and settings from firefox should work on there.

It may be an option.







Re: Firefox 57 etc

 

I agree, and sometimes updaters lie through their teeth.

I updated my aunt's hp ay laptop 2 weeks back to win10.

The support software told me that at the current time I had updated drivers and everything was ready.

I got it updated and working, but shortly afterward, unless connected to my desk fan, the system would not start at all and when it started normally it beeped and gave an error though it did run the os.

The screen was also really bright.

I then got sighted help and was told the display driver was not loading, then I reinstalled that.

Checking the support program found updates to wmi and display.

Since the support app is so slow downloading anything I always get the right info from the app and go online.

To my utter shock, there were updates to the display and wmi engine, bios, hard drive, and 99.9% of all internal components but the support app only notified me of 2 of the 30 or so that should have been on the update list to do.

They included the system startup program for windows.

I updated all these and the system then started normally without issue.

It took me 3 hours of work to get all the updates installed so yeah they can jump on you quickly and sometimes you need to put things in manually to get the result..

On 7/11/2017 10:10 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
There are updates, and there are updates, so to speak, by which I mean that for example windows does small updates each month and mostly they have no issues, but if you completely update a package, for example like Revo uninstaller did and make it no  use to us then these are to be avoided. the crucial thing is to get advised of any updates and decide on what you find.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 6:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


hi gene again.
i followed bugzilla.mozilla.org and realized that in many versions
have security fixes for maintenance service.
as i also realy hate update, the first thing that i do is turning off
any update of any softwares that i use!

On 11/6/17, Tony Ballou <cyberpro224@outlook.com> wrote:
Hi Rose Marie,


I wouldn't worry about this. It's something that I've also never heard of.


Tony


On 11/6/2017 11:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Gee--how come the rest of us haven't heard of this so-called bug?




On 11/6/2017 2:31 AM, zahra wrote:
i read maintenance service has many bugs and problems.
i never install it, i choose custom installation and unchecke its
checkbox.
i never update my firefox and so, set it to never update and also
changed many uptions in about:config to be sure anythings never be
updated for me!
maintenance service is just for updating firefox without users
interaction and silently updates firefox without any notification!

On 11/6/17, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
All the update options are obvious. There is an automatically update
option, an option to notify you when an update is available and an
option to
never update. I don't know if you are saying not all the update
options are
obviouls or not all the options available in the entire options
dialog are
obvious.

If somene doesn't know how or has problems finding the update
settings, how
to find them can be explained and once explained, it shouldn't be
difficult
to find them. But remopving the actual service itself is a really
terrible
idea.

Gene


From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 3:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


That is a bit of a sledgehammer way. You can set it in the options, but
quite what all the choices do is not instantly obvious, except the
one to
say never update of course!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


just delete maintainance service in your control panel, i mean
uninstall it and go to options, advance, update and set your desires.

On 11/6/17, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@hotmail.com> wrote:
How can I make sure Firefox won't update? I don't want my go-to
browser
to be unusable!


On 6/11/2017 10:17 AM, Stephen wrote:
I thought that was why there were beta versions before the main
release, to get these issues ironed out in the first place?
At 07:47 PM 11/5/2017, you wrote:
Well how does one actually get it to work then, I cannot get to
anything I can read in order to check if the option is set
wrongly, I
was under the impression that it was supposed to be off by default.
this has not been my experience, either that or there are more
serious issues on the 32 bit version or it has problems in
windows 7.
No My thrust and that of several others I know is that it has been
sprung on people. IE if there was a version of firefox that by
default could not be used by the sighted it would never leave the
developers.
My point is that I'm sick and tired of being a second class citizen
simply because I'm blind, and its about time these people got their
fingers out of their ears or wherever they put them, not wanting to
be rude and embraced accessibility at the start of a new concept not
half way through it.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


My apologies, I misunderstood your rhetoric comment. That's what
comes
of trying to do two things at once. Also to be clear, I'm not
saying we
shouldn't question changes. I think it's fine and valuable to ask
what
changes are being made and why they're being made. But there are
some
people who seem to assume they're almost always bad and are the
start
down a path for changes for the worst, it seems to me, and that's
what
I
object to. As you say, and a few others have reported this here as
well,
the new Firefox with the option set correctly seems to be mostly
fine,
if slow. And if not, as you've also pointed out, we have other
browsers
to use until it gets straightened out.


I also think it's valuable to point out that these aren't ham-fisted
sledgehammer changes, they are perhaps fairly large changes sure,
but
they're not being done just because, they're being done for a
perfectly
valid security reason. I figured I'd better provide examples
instead of
just telling people it's an issue, now we can all see the potential
problems with code injection. I should add, I'm really glad the new
update is mostly fine, though I might use the extended release
myself.
I
use Firefox as my daily browser and haven't really found any of the
others to my liking for various reasons, though I need to play with
them
some more because of course accessibility keeps improving for them.


Man I remember the days of IE 6 or 7 when JFW's Firefox support
wasn't
that great, and IE updated and JFW hadn't caught up yet. Called tech
support and they insisted I couldn't be running the new version
of IE
because the new version of IE didn't work with JFW. At least
we've got
some pretty decent alternatives nowadays. I'm not even sure if
Firefox
was supported yet, it was ages ago when this happened, but I
remember I
had all kinds of issues browsing until it got updated eventually.
And
that line will stick in my head forever, "you can't be running
that",
I'm like "dude it's right here on my machine"! I think I even
cranked
speech up over the speakers and made it read the version number. Fun
times!


On 11/4/2017 23:45, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Boy, you really like to press home a point. I didn't fundamentally
disagree with you on any of that. In fact, according to beta
testers,
Firefox 57 without the check box checked isn't very much different
than earlier versions. In addition, I have begun to use Edge for
many
things. The only major issue I see with Edge and NVDA is it is a
bit
erratic in forms mode. For example on the Send Space page where you
have to click on buttons and make descriptive editions if desired,
NVDA keeps slipping in and out of forms mode. I bet they nail
this one
down either later this year or early next year. I can use Edge for
anything now including forms and similar editable pages--with some
difficulty.


I only objected to your wholesale condemnation of all blind
people who
raised questions about changes in accessibility.



On 11/4/2017 9:57 PM, John Isige wrote:
Ah. Rhetoric. Like this.


http://blog.trendmicro.com/mozilla-firefox-exploit-enlists-pcs-advanced-botnet/







And this:


https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/08/11/firefox-under-fire-anatomy-of-latest-0-day-attack/







The reason you're not hacked any more than other people is because
Firefox updates for security, i.e. the very thing people are
complaining
about now because it's updating in a way that happens to mess with
screen readers. It's true that, so far as I know, neither of these
injection attacks are the kind of code injection screen readers
do.
That's because screen readers are local though and not using
something
like JavaScript, but that's about the only difference. And you
should
particularly note from the second link that the particular code
injection attack being discussed there allows reading and
writing of
local files as well as uploading them. Have a credit card number
written
down somewhere for easy access? Get infected by that thing and it
could
very well be uploaded to a site for somebody else to try and use.


My point is, injection attacks happen, they're bad, and this is
another
way to try and stop them. There's a real purpose to this change,
whether
or not anybody happens to like or agree with it. It's not just
rhetoric,
there are real examples of it, as I've just demonstrated. There's
also a
way for screen readers to deal with browsers that doesn't involve
code
injection, I believe this is how NVDA deals with Microsoft Edge
because
Edge doesn't allow code injection. That's also part of why
everybody's
still working on Edge accessibility, sure, that way doesn't
materialize
overnight, it has to be implemented and I'm sure issues have to be
worked out with it, e.g. if a browser needs to expose certain
things it
doesn't currently.


I get that the change Firefox is making isn't ideal for us, I'm
just
saying, there's a reason for it, and there are a lot of
alternatives to
using the new Firefox, including an older accessible version of
Firefox
if you don't feel like trying to change browsers and use Chrome or
Edge
until better accessibility for the new version of Firefox is
worked
out.
There's no reason to assume that the sky is falling and that
nothing
will ever get better because clearly, Firefox is going down the
road of
hating blind people and ignoring them entirely and thus we're all
crewed.


On 11/4/2017 19:13, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi John,


Besides all that rhetoric, Mozilla has set the 'disable all
accessibility features' item to unchecked by default. As long
as you
don't turn it on by accident, there shouldn't be any problem. I
don't
know what the chance of you getting infected or hacked by
something is
when this item is turned off, but I would imagine it isn't
very high
because I don't see any greater number of blind people getting
hacked
proportionately than sighted folks. Still there is an issue with
security now of days and it probably won't get any better for
years.
Some people have already tested 57 with screen readers and were
careful not to check the box and things seem reasonably good.



On 11/4/2017 6:08 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you'd read all of the stuff in Freedom Scientific's post, you
would
have seen this link.


https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/








Code injection is a horrible idea from a security standpoint and
also a
coding one. It was something that was necessary back in the day,
but
probably isn't anymore. So that was a change that probably
should
have
happened long before now anyway. It makes sense as a change and
it was
going to cause this issue whenever it happened. Not only do
we have
several accessible browsers to choose from, we have an
accessible
version of the one with the problem and one assumes work will be
done to
make the current version accessible. Seriously, do you people do
anything other than bitch about stuff? I'm beginning to
wonder. I
get
that the transition is annoying, sure. but some times there are
actually
good reasons to change things, however annoying the transition
happens
to be, and honestly, this one isn't all that bad in the grand
scheme of
things.


On 11/4/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:
Indeed, However I am critical of Mozillas handling of this. Its
not
often that the makers of Jaws put up a page about the
pitfalls and
also criticise a particular company for being unthinking about
their
policy toward the VI community.

Let us hope that somebody in the management at that
organisation
takes
us more seriously, however I'm not holding my breath, and
I'm not
sure
if jamie working for them will help much if the culture is
going
down
the road toward making all software inaccessible to stop
hacking. He
is probably not the most tactful person in the world as indeed
neither
am I. I can now afford to grow old disgracefully. Age has its
advantages as history does tend to repeat itself and we have
all
been
here before, sadly.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "никиÑ,а Ñ,аÑ?аÑ
ов"
<ntarasov29@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc



Hello. I don't think it's worth installing Mozila 57 until
she's
fully
available to NVDA.
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено из ÐYоÑ?Ñ,Ñ< Ð´Ð»Ñ Windows 10

ÐzÑ,: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено: 3 Ð½Ð¾Ñ Ð±Ñ?Ñ 2017 г. в 21:17
ÐsомÑf: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Тема: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc

Yes I saw a message on the issues list from James, about some
fixing
for
version 58, so maybe it will get resolved from the currently
unusable
state.
Its new users of any screenreader I feel sorry for, especially
where
its a
shared machine and the sighted member just lets firefox update.
There are a couple of other issues. It disabled both my add
ons,
navigational sounds and Ublock Origin ad blocker and even
when I
put
the
version 52 back on I had to re download both add ons and
install
them
again.
Not only that but nvda after the update could not read the
screen of
the add
ons manager, I had to exit firefox completely and go back in
again to
see
if they had installed correctly, I'm sure this was not the case
prior
to up
and down dating the version I had, which was 55. How also
does one
set
52 to
get security updates without letting it update to 57 as I
see it
wants
to do
till I set updates to no, ie not recommended.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza"
<lowvisiontek@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 etc


Hi, Brian


I have the same issue on the other machine, and that is the
reason
why I
keep to shift instead to use the Firefox ESR version 52 but
for
now I
will
stick to this version because there is likely more stable in
performance
and never has a problem. And, once the issue has fix maybe I
could go
for
to use and test it again.


Robert Mendoza

On 11/3/2017 6:00 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:
With regard to this version of Firefox, and in addition to
what
Joseph
posted about it. Here is what me acting as the average
unaware
updater
found.
After installation only the menus work, no content on the
page
is
readable, you cannot go into any browse or focus mode. You
just
here
unknown.
Now there may well be some kind of setting that can be
altered,
I do
not
know, to achieve what he got, slow but functioning. I
could not
find
any
option for this. Not only that but it seemed to lose
almost half
of my
bookmarks as well.

So unless they fix this on the release version anyone trying
to use
Firefox 57 when it comes out with the latest version of nvda,
and I
am up
to date with the master branch here, will not be able to
do so
unless
they know how to make it work.
If these people are employees then they will probably need
the
permission
of an admin to reinstall a version like 55, and turn off auto
updates. I
have reinstalled 52 in actual fact and got my bookmarks
back as
well as
functionality. To my mind the makers of Firefox at the
current
state of
play should be able to see if screenreading software is on a
machine
in a
similar way to Adobe reader or Jarte does, and prevent it
from
updating
to an unworkable version.
I cannot understand why they have not done this.

Anyone care to comment?
Brian

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Re: Does anymone have experience with editing google docs on the web with NVDA?

Gene
 

The shortcut command for opening NVDA is a Windows command as are all short cuts.  The bypass command will bypass actual screen-reader commands that are intefeering but not shortcuts.  I would suggest changing the shortcut key.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Does anymone have experience with editing google docs on the web with NVDA?

Hi Sylvie,


Not sure if this will work but before executing the command you want in
google docs hit insert-f2 which will tell NVDA to pass the next string
of commands directly to the application that you are working in then try
the command again. Hope this helps.


Tony



On 11/7/2017 6:08 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:
> Hello all,
> I am actually working with somebody on a good structured google doc.
> The short cuts list says that you can reach the next heading by
> pressing ctrl+alt, then n then h.
> This is conflicting with the shortcut for starting NVDA.
> Going on browse mode and hitting h just goes to the next heading but
> not to the following.
> Do you have any hints on this?
> Second, if a document contains a table of content, is there a way to
> jump to one specific section? Activating a link to this section does
> not work for me.
> thank you for your help.
> Best
> Sylvie
>
>
>





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Re: Another NVDA question

Gene
 

It's not just in Windows 10.  Now and then, I see times when Windows b reads something that other methods won't read and I also see times when other techniques read something that Windows b doesn't read.  I don't see this often, but I see it now and then and if I can't find something on screen I think should be there, I try all methods until I find one that works, if any do.  Also, because of the complexities of looking at all the layers using object navigation in some programs, it's simpler and easier to just use Windows b and let everything read at times, until it gets to what I want.  Then, if I stop reading very quickly, object navigation, which follows what Windows b is reading, is in the right place or just about the right place. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Another NVDA question

There are still some bits of software where nvda b will read stuff that
neither screen nor object nav can venture though. That seems to be a bit of
an issue on soome windows 10 screens.
 Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Another NVDA question


Gene,



What a strange thing to assert!



As I speak, I can use browse mode on this message and look around at areas
that the live cursor cannot get to. I can also use this feature reading Word
documents. I can, in fact, use it everywhere that the JAWS cursor moves to.



Would you like to clarify your statement?



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 10:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Another NVDA question



Browse mode doesn't apply.  It is used in web browsing and reading PDF
documents.  It is a specific feature that certain browsers and PDF readers
support.  The JAWS cursor equivalent is what is being asked about.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cearbhall O'Meadhra <mailto:cearbhall.omeadhra@...>

Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 4:40 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] Another NVDA question



Hi, Howard,
You will need NVDA's browse mode to move freely around the screen.
NVDA + space bar toggles between focus mode and browse mode. You can tell
you are in browse mode when you hear a high  "pip" sound. When you are in
focus mode you will hear a dropping "chopping" sound. A good idea is to turn
on keyboard help with NVDA +1 Then try NVDA+ space bar and listen to what it
describes as you repeat it a few times.

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
<mailto:cearbhall.omeadhra@...>


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 10:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Another NVDA question

NVDA-b reads a dialogue. NVDA-numpad 7 changes review modes, sometimes
screen review will read things, sometimes it won't. The next thing to look
into, if neither of those work for you, is object navigation.


On 11/6/2017 14:48, Howard Traxler wrote:
> Could someone please tell me--or tell me where in the manual to find:
>
> Back when I was using jaws, I could turn on the "JAWS Cursor" and look
> all over the screen--or maybe the current window.  How can I get that
> effect in NVDA.  Many times  programs will give me a screen full of
> info and then just let me tab around a two or three button dialog:
> "yes, no, or cancel".  I'd sometimes like to read the question before
> I answer it.
>
> Thanks, anybody.
> Howard
>
>
>














Re: Does anymone have experience with editing google docs on the web with NVDA?

Michal Rada
 

And, sure, there are answers to your questions:


1) - try combinations ALT+SHIFT+A, then H, then N - it works. It calls command separratelly by menu levels (Accessibility menu, then Headings, then Next).


2) Try ALT+ENTER - it works for me. But as I say before, try to use headings list by ALT+SHIFT+T, then O. This displays tree with navigation, you can move by arrows up and down and ENTER to jump to heading in document.


Helps?



Dne 7.11.2017 v 17:34 Michal Rada napsal(a):

Hi,

Yes, i working with google office in my office :-D

Documents, Slides and Sheets are fully accessible with Jaws, you must enable accessibility support by keystroke ALT+CTRL+Z, but, it works only in Mozilla Firefox. Other browsers does not work properly.

There are some tips for using documents.

* Moving classical by arrow keys, but CTRL+arrows works too.

* There are many keyboard shortcuts for navigation and using these apps, look here https://support.google.com/docs/answer/179738?co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop&hl=en

* There are basic tips and guides - look here https://support.google.com/docs/answer/1632201?hl=en

* Verry usefull tip is moving by headings - it works with keystrokes ALT+SHIFT+T and O

* Menus are accessible with ALT+SHIFT+letter - for example ALT+SHIFT+F for File menu, etc.

* And, if yoy focussed menu, try TAB and SHIFT+TAB to move to other important controls, tool bars, quick document bar, etc.


Try it, with Firefox its great.

Michal



Dne 7.11.2017 v 12:08 Sylvie Duchateau napsal(a):
Hello all,
I am actually working with somebody on a good structured google doc.
The short cuts list says that you can reach the next heading by pressing ctrl+alt, then n then h.
This is conflicting with the shortcut for starting NVDA.
Going on browse mode and hitting h just goes to the next heading but not to the following.
Do you have any hints on this?
Second, if a document contains a table of content, is there a way to jump to one specific section? Activating a link to this section does not work for me.
thank you for your help.
Best
Sylvie




Re: Does anymone have experience with editing google docs on the web with NVDA?

Michal Rada
 

ooooooh, sorry,

with NVDA. But, it may work with Jaws too.

M


Dne 7.11.2017 v 17:34 Michal Rada napsal(a):

Hi,

Yes, i working with google office in my office :-D

Documents, Slides and Sheets are fully accessible with Jaws, you must enable accessibility support by keystroke ALT+CTRL+Z, but, it works only in Mozilla Firefox. Other browsers does not work properly.

There are some tips for using documents.

* Moving classical by arrow keys, but CTRL+arrows works too.

* There are many keyboard shortcuts for navigation and using these apps, look here https://support.google.com/docs/answer/179738?co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop&hl=en

* There are basic tips and guides - look here https://support.google.com/docs/answer/1632201?hl=en

* Verry usefull tip is moving by headings - it works with keystrokes ALT+SHIFT+T and O

* Menus are accessible with ALT+SHIFT+letter - for example ALT+SHIFT+F for File menu, etc.

* And, if yoy focussed menu, try TAB and SHIFT+TAB to move to other important controls, tool bars, quick document bar, etc.


Try it, with Firefox its great.

Michal



Dne 7.11.2017 v 12:08 Sylvie Duchateau napsal(a):
Hello all,
I am actually working with somebody on a good structured google doc.
The short cuts list says that you can reach the next heading by pressing ctrl+alt, then n then h.
This is conflicting with the shortcut for starting NVDA.
Going on browse mode and hitting h just goes to the next heading but not to the following.
Do you have any hints on this?
Second, if a document contains a table of content, is there a way to jump to one specific section? Activating a link to this section does not work for me.
thank you for your help.
Best
Sylvie




Re: Does anymone have experience with editing google docs on the web with NVDA?

Michal Rada
 

Hi,

Yes, i working with google office in my office :-D

Documents, Slides and Sheets are fully accessible with Jaws, you must enable accessibility support by keystroke ALT+CTRL+Z, but, it works only in Mozilla Firefox. Other browsers does not work properly.

There are some tips for using documents.

* Moving classical by arrow keys, but CTRL+arrows works too.

* There are many keyboard shortcuts for navigation and using these apps, look here https://support.google.com/docs/answer/179738?co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop&hl=en


* There are basic tips and guides - look here https://support.google.com/docs/answer/1632201?hl=en

* Verry usefull tip is moving by headings - it works with keystrokes ALT+SHIFT+T and O

* Menus are accessible with ALT+SHIFT+letter - for example ALT+SHIFT+F for File menu, etc.

* And, if yoy focussed menu, try TAB and SHIFT+TAB to move to other important controls, tool bars, quick document bar, etc.


Try it, with Firefox its great.

Michal



Dne 7.11.2017 v 12:08 Sylvie Duchateau napsal(a):

Hello all,
I am actually working with somebody on a good structured google doc.
The short cuts list says that you can reach the next heading by pressing ctrl+alt, then n then h.
This is conflicting with the shortcut for starting NVDA.
Going on browse mode and hitting h just goes to the next heading but not to the following.
Do you have any hints on this?
Second, if a document contains a table of content, is there a way to jump to one specific section? Activating a link to this section does not work for me.
thank you for your help.
Best
Sylvie


Re: Does anymone have experience with editing google docs on the web with NVDA?

Sylvie Duchateau
 

Hi Tony and all,

The problem is that this shortcut is not a NVDA command but a windows shortcut.

So nvda+F2 cannot and does not work.

But thank you for trying to help!

Sylvie

Le 07/11/2017 à 17:15, Tony Ballou a écrit :

Hi Sylvie,


Not sure if this will work but before executing the command you want in
google docs hit insert-f2 which will tell NVDA to pass the next string
of commands directly to the application that you are working in then try
the command again. Hope this helps.


Tony



On 11/7/2017 6:08 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:
Hello all,
I am actually working with somebody on a good structured google doc.
The short cuts list says that you can reach the next heading by
pressing ctrl+alt, then n then h.
This is conflicting with the shortcut for starting NVDA.
Going on browse mode and hitting h just goes to the next heading but
not to the following.
Do you have any hints on this?
Second, if a document contains a table of content, is there a way to
jump to one specific section? Activating a link to this section does
not work for me.
thank you for your help.
Best
Sylvie



Re: Does anymone have experience with editing google docs on the web with NVDA?

Tony Ballou
 

Hi Sylvie,


Not sure if this will work but before executing the command you want in
google docs hit insert-f2 which will tell NVDA to pass the next string
of commands directly to the application that you are working in then try
the command again. Hope this helps.


Tony

On 11/7/2017 6:08 AM, Sylvie Duchateau wrote:
Hello all,
I am actually working with somebody on a good structured google doc.
The short cuts list says that you can reach the next heading by
pressing ctrl+alt, then n then h.
This is conflicting with the shortcut for starting NVDA.
Going on browse mode and hitting h just goes to the next heading but
not to the following.
Do you have any hints on this?
Second, if a document contains a table of content, is there a way to
jump to one specific section? Activating a link to this section does
not work for me.
thank you for your help.
Best
Sylvie



Firefox 57 from an NVDA user's perspective - Marco's Accessibility Blog

Michel Such
 


Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] GPII DeveloperSpace for a11y technology - useful resource?

 

In terms of accessibility, yes, but LibreOffice is a far better working product than OO.


On 11/7/2017 9:09 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Are you saying Open Office is better than Libra Office? I've not seen much activity on Open office recently but there does seem to be some on Libra Office.
 Ideally nvda should offer in both of these the same level of access that you get in Microsoft Office, but just now there are several show stoppers stopping it adding a browse mode or a read to end of doc function very easily to name but two things.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Kingett" <kingettr@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] [libreoffice-accessibility] GPII DeveloperSpace for a11y technology - useful resource?


I think this is great! I was also wondering, since OpenOffice is
extremely, incredibly, accessible, and since LO can take code from
OpenOffice, can't LO just take the accessibility information OO gives
and kind of port it over?


On 11/6/2017 7:04 PM, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
Hi,

just came across https://ds.gpii.net/ - self-describing as the
"one-stop place to find resources, components and people to conceive,
develop, test and market novel accessible solutions".

Anyway, perhaps a useful place to network, and/or find some
inspirations? They also have mailing lists
(https://wiki.gpii.net/index.php/Mailing_Lists), this one looks worth
monitoring: http://lists.gpii.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vendors

Cheers,

-- Thorsten









Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] GPII DeveloperSpace for a11y technology - useful resource?

V Stuart Foote
 

Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice share the same IAccessible2 API (ia2) originally developed by IBM for the Symphony suite. NVDA python modules support it directly.

LibreOffice's implementation has continued to be developed while Apache OpenOffice effort with a11y --ia2/ATK/NSaccessibility-- stalled some time ago.


Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] GPII DeveloperSpace for a11y technology - useful resource?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Are you saying Open Office is better than Libra Office? I've not seen much activity on Open office recently but there does seem to be some on Libra Office.
Ideally nvda should offer in both of these the same level of access that you get in Microsoft Office, but just now there are several show stoppers stopping it adding a browse mode or a read to end of doc function very easily to name but two things.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Kingett" <kingettr@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] [libreoffice-accessibility] GPII DeveloperSpace for a11y technology - useful resource?


I think this is great! I was also wondering, since OpenOffice is
extremely, incredibly, accessible, and since LO can take code from
OpenOffice, can't LO just take the accessibility information OO gives
and kind of port it over?


On 11/6/2017 7:04 PM, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
Hi,

just came across https://ds.gpii.net/ - self-describing as the
"one-stop place to find resources, components and people to conceive,
develop, test and market novel accessible solutions".

Anyway, perhaps a useful place to network, and/or find some
inspirations? They also have mailing lists
(https://wiki.gpii.net/index.php/Mailing_Lists), this one looks worth
monitoring: http://lists.gpii.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vendors

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


Re: firefox thing fixed maybe

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Maybe but will they be as accessible that is the thing.
I'd certainly not want to lose the sounds or the ublock origin add on as these two make browsing more intuitive.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox thing fixed maybe


hello.
there are alternative for legacy addons in firefox 57 or newer as i heard!
God bless you all!

On 11/7/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi.

I have noticed on firefox that a lot of addons I use say legacy though
they work including navigation sounds, better privacy and noscript, does
this mean they are not being maintained or something.

However on that note, has anyone tried to use waterfox instead of firefox.

I tried it for a bit, and it seems to be a likely choice with all addons
working if mozilla doesn't get its a into g then it maybe another option
for us at least for the moment unless those guys upgrade to the crazy
engine mozilla is going to do.

From pages it appears they use the old style firefox engine and
interfaces from 55x maybe they are a port.

addons and settings from firefox should work on there.

It may be an option.







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: firefox thing fixed maybe

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

What is that other one called, Vivaldi?
I've not heard of Waterfox, is this for use on underwater computers?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 9:11 AM
Subject: [nvda] firefox thing fixed maybe


Hi.

I have noticed on firefox that a lot of addons I use say legacy though they work including navigation sounds, better privacy and noscript, does this mean they are not being maintained or something.

However on that note, has anyone tried to use waterfox instead of firefox.

I tried it for a bit, and it seems to be a likely choice with all addons working if mozilla doesn't get its a into g then it maybe another option for us at least for the moment unless those guys upgrade to the crazy engine mozilla is going to do.

From pages it appears they use the old style firefox engine and interfaces from 55x maybe they are a port.

addons and settings from firefox should work on there.

It may be an option.





Re: Another NVDA question

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

There are still some bits of software where nvda b will read stuff that neither screen nor object nav can venture though. That seems to be a bit of an issue on soome windows 10 screens.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Another NVDA question


Gene,



What a strange thing to assert!



As I speak, I can use browse mode on this message and look around at areas that the live cursor cannot get to. I can also use this feature reading Word documents. I can, in fact, use it everywhere that the JAWS cursor moves to.



Would you like to clarify your statement?



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 10:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Another NVDA question



Browse mode doesn't apply. It is used in web browsing and reading PDF documents. It is a specific feature that certain browsers and PDF readers support. The JAWS cursor equivalent is what is being asked about.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cearbhall O'Meadhra <mailto:cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie>

Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 4:40 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] Another NVDA question



Hi, Howard,
You will need NVDA's browse mode to move freely around the screen.
NVDA + space bar toggles between focus mode and browse mode. You can tell you are in browse mode when you hear a high "pip" sound. When you are in focus mode you will hear a dropping "chopping" sound. A good idea is to turn on keyboard help with NVDA +1 Then try NVDA+ space bar and listen to what it describes as you repeat it a few times.

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie <mailto:cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie>


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 10:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Another NVDA question

NVDA-b reads a dialogue. NVDA-numpad 7 changes review modes, sometimes screen review will read things, sometimes it won't. The next thing to look into, if neither of those work for you, is object navigation.


On 11/6/2017 14:48, Howard Traxler wrote:
Could someone please tell me--or tell me where in the manual to find:

Back when I was using jaws, I could turn on the "JAWS Cursor" and look
all over the screen--or maybe the current window. How can I get that
effect in NVDA. Many times programs will give me a screen full of
info and then just let me tab around a two or three button dialog:
"yes, no, or cancel". I'd sometimes like to read the question before
I answer it.

Thanks, anybody.
Howard