Date   

Re: NVDA and Citrix XenApp

Adriani Botez
 

Dear Quinn,

 

it’s a pleasure to have someone from Citrix on this group. I think it will be a huge benefit for blind and visually impaired users. For me it is like a milestone being reached at this point. Other representants of related parties should follow your example.

 

To describe the importance of citrix for us, it has to be said that lots of blind and visually impaired people world wide try to work in citrix environments since data security gets more important and most companies change their systems accordingly. Unfortunately there are lots of blind and visually impaired people who either lost their jobs because of productivity issues regarding to citrix and screen reader compatibility or they switched to alternative tasks which actually are not part of their original domain. In my situation my company (DEG - subsidiary of KFW Bank in Germany) installed a local fadclient which is connected through vpn to their servers. This was necessary because it is to complicated to install the screen reader on every server and on every thin client to be able to work in Citrix. Additionally, as of now, I cannot use their laptops because the policy does not allow vpn connectivity from a laptop, you are forced to work in Citrix which is highly inaccessible for me because the client extracts his information from different servers at the same time. The screen reader should be installed on every server. Now at KFW we have more than 200 servers. So in conclusion, I cannot be as flexible as other workers. And it is not possible for me to access the network of our company from abroad since I would have to carry the fadclient with me which is highly unconfortable.

 

There are indeed several issues with citrix, but this is related to every screenreader. In fact, the screenreaders from server and client communicate with each other and so bring the information to the user on client. Due to several technical restrictions there is a significant speech latency compared to the usual case when you just work locally. NVDA provides an Addon for remote support which somehow works in Citrix but as I said the latency is quite high, especially in complex tasks.

 

But here is the good part:

NVDA is an open source screen reader. It provides a control client as well, so that Citrix could implement the API in the app itself. You can also download the whole code of NVDA and this API and could integrate the screen reader in the core system so that Citrix xen App comes directly equipped with a screenreader out of the box. I think this would solve many many problems. NV Access is surely open to discuss with you the technical part of implementation, updating process and so on.

 

Here is the link to the NVDA repository on Github including the Control Client API:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda

 

 

Would Citrix be open to do this in the near future?

 

 

Best

Adriani Botez

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Quinn Bailey
Gesendet: Samstag, 11. November 2017 01:01
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] NVDA and Citrix XenApp

 

Hello folks,


I am an SE at Citrix systems and a customer of ours was curious to know if there were any known issues or gotchas with running NVDA in a Citrix XenApp (Remote Desktop Services) environment?

 

Thank you.

 

Quinn Bailey

Systems Engineer

U.S. Enterprise West

M. 415.314.6795

quinn.bailey@...

 


Re: NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

Gene
 

If you don't have something load at login and after login, you may miss error messages.  You should have something start and if you don't want to use it, you can unload it and run something else.  But having a machine be silent at the login screen and silent after you log in is a bad idea.  Also, I'm not sure what is occurring but it may have been a mistake to take the computer to the store rather than discuss the problem here first.  E-Speak comes with NVDA but it just doesn't speak.  It speaks at times when NVDA is running.  Something is occurring and we don't know what yet.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Mary Otten
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2017 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

OK. But he doesn’t have an account on the machine. So far as I know, I am the only one, administrator. And I do not have NVDA set to load either at logon or at start up or I should say after start up. I have a couple of screen readers on the machine. And I don’t want any of them loading until I say which one, or maybe I just want to load kurzweil. So nothing like that is loading and I am the only account.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 11, 2017, at 2:57 PM, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@...> wrote:
>
> There are 2 settings related to NVDA, when a log-on/secure screen is displayed and after a user logs into Windows.  If any NVDA user has a profile in which the setting for log-on/secure screens is selected, those screens will be spoken irrespective of whether a particular user has NVDA loaded when working in their own Windows user account or not.  For example if both you and your husband have a user account on the computer, you are an an NVDA user but your husband is not.  If your husband logs into his account, NVDA is not loaded but if he logs out, Windows will load NVDA so the log in screen will be spoken to enable you to log-in if you so wish.
>
> Cheers
> Chris
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: 11 November 2017 22:15
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down
>
> OK, but why would it talk if it’s not loaded? If it’s never been started up, shouldn’t it stay silent?
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 11, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>> When the Windows log-in and lock screen come into play, a Different NVDA profile is used to the one related to your user-id and it may be this that is providing speech during the shut-down process.  Unless you specifically copy a modified profile across for system usage, it will use the default synth which is E-speak.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>> Mary Otten
>> Sent: 11 November 2017 19:56
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: [nvda] NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a
>> problem with shut down
>>
>> I have this new machine and it has NVDA on it. But in Vda  does not load at start up. We are having some problems with the machine, and my husband thought he had narrowed it down to stuff screwing up when you restart rather than shutting down the machine. Anyway, with NVDA not loaded when the machine is shutting down, occasionally will hang up and e speak will start talking. That is not the synthesizer I have selected. But it does talk. And it is happened on a few occasions. When he took it back to the store to let the tech look at it, it did that once, and now the tech is blaming the whole thing on NVDA. I’m sure that’s not correct, but I don’t know what to tell them.
>> Mary
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>




Re: Beware latest CD Burner XP

 

The vile practice of bundling is gaining steam and I am under no illusion it will slow down, ever.

That's why I use Unchecky, even though I try to assiduously catch this stuff manually, it has sometimes slipped by.

For those interested in Unchecky:  http://unchecky.com and the changelog for their releases:  https://unchecky.com/changelog 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: a new browser to talk about

Arlene
 

Does it work for windows ten too?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert Mendoza
Sent: November-10-17 11:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] a new browser to talk about

Waterfox runs only for Windows 7 or later with 64-bit.

Robert Mendoza

On 11/11/2017 2:34 PM, zahra wrote:
do you mean that it only supports windows 64bit?
i have windows xp 32bit and i was curious to test different programs.
what should i do?

On 11/11/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@...> wrote:
no, it runs to all the 64 bit variants of Windows 7 or later.

Robert Mendoza

On 11/11/2017 12:06 PM, Arlene wrote:
Hi, does it only work for windows ten?

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf
Of *Bobby Vinton
*Sent:* November-10-17 6:26 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] a new browser to talk about

No this is not a tweek at all butt it works like fire fox. You can
get water fox at www.filehorse.com <http://www.filehorse.com>. I
don’t know what water foxes home page is. I hope you enjoy it. s

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

*From: *David <mailto:trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Friday, November 10, 2017 9:13 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] a new browser to talk about

Where would you get the WaterFox?

Is it just as safe as Firefox, or is this a tweaked, hacked and "we
keep all doors open" version of the firefox core? Anyone knows who
develop or maintain the product, and what intentions are behind the
product?

On 11/10/2017 11:02 PM, Florian Ionașcu wrote:

Hello, I am interested to try it. I wanna see if it's quite
accessible with NVDA. If yes, I'll recomend it to the Romanian
community members.

La 10.11.2017 23:32, Joseph Weakland a scris:

have you tried to see if wweb visum works on it?

On 11/10/2017 2:34 PM, Bobby Vinton wrote:

Hay I am using this browser called water fox. Just to let
you all know water fox is just like fire fox so you don’t
have to learn any thing new. You can use fire fox add ons
so you don’t have to worry about finding new add ons that
will work with the water fox browser

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

--

email

josephweakland@... <mailto:josephweakland@...>

sent from thunderbird


Re: NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

Mary Otten <motten53@...>
 

OK. But he doesn’t have an account on the machine. So far as I know, I am the only one, administrator. And I do not have NVDA set to load either at logon or at start up or I should say after start up. I have a couple of screen readers on the machine. And I don’t want any of them loading until I say which one, or maybe I just want to load kurzweil. So nothing like that is loading and I am the only account.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2017, at 2:57 PM, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@...> wrote:

There are 2 settings related to NVDA, when a log-on/secure screen is displayed and after a user logs into Windows. If any NVDA user has a profile in which the setting for log-on/secure screens is selected, those screens will be spoken irrespective of whether a particular user has NVDA loaded when working in their own Windows user account or not. For example if both you and your husband have a user account on the computer, you are an an NVDA user but your husband is not. If your husband logs into his account, NVDA is not loaded but if he logs out, Windows will load NVDA so the log in screen will be spoken to enable you to log-in if you so wish.

Cheers
Chris



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: 11 November 2017 22:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

OK, but why would it talk if it’s not loaded? If it’s never been started up, shouldn’t it stay silent?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@...> wrote:

Hi
When the Windows log-in and lock screen come into play, a Different NVDA profile is used to the one related to your user-id and it may be this that is providing speech during the shut-down process. Unless you specifically copy a modified profile across for system usage, it will use the default synth which is E-speak.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Mary Otten
Sent: 11 November 2017 19:56
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a
problem with shut down

I have this new machine and it has NVDA on it. But in Vda does not load at start up. We are having some problems with the machine, and my husband thought he had narrowed it down to stuff screwing up when you restart rather than shutting down the machine. Anyway, with NVDA not loaded when the machine is shutting down, occasionally will hang up and e speak will start talking. That is not the synthesizer I have selected. But it does talk. And it is happened on a few occasions. When he took it back to the store to let the tech look at it, it did that once, and now the tech is blaming the whole thing on NVDA. I’m sure that’s not correct, but I don’t know what to tell them.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone









Re: NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

Gene
 

Most of the time, UAC doesn't cause problems.  All you have to do if you hear a UAC message is issue the command alt y because you are in a dialog and you are saying yes to the question being asked.  Why, in today's security environment, would you turn off UAC when responding is so simple?
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: The Wolf
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2017 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

start iac

rather start minue

type in uiac and set slider to 0


On 11/11/2017 2:35 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
> Speaking of uac, it used to be possible to disable that. I don’t know if that’s still true with windows 10. It saves a lot of hassle. I suppose there are security implications of coarse.
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 11, 2017, at 1:21 PM, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>>
>> Well the uac can be.
>>
>> To be honest when I get a system like this I just do a reformat and load things myself and test, test, test.
>>
>> Usually when I load my configs it doesn't do that.
>>
>> If it does its bios, drivers or both.
>>
>> The issue is when I have to deal with user software which gets in the way.
>>
>> I can do it that way but it takes longer, and costs the client and myself more time.
>>
>> I'd prefur to just reformat and reinstall windows and then I have an easier time.
>>
>> Ofcause after that loading each bit of software at a time will eventually yeald the error.
>>
>> 9 times out of 10 at that stage its new or updated software.
>>
>> And if it gets to that state I use google.
>>
>> Sometimes a user needs a function and then just cracks software that needs it or installs malware full software to get it working.
>>
>> At that point I just ask them for the function and then I can google that.
>>
>> There is enough free opensource or low cost software that I either find the entire package or the modules I need and if I am lucky a wrapper front end to put them together.
>>
>> The issue is then to convince the user to use said software.
>>
>> I would to be honest ask the tech what stuff is on there.
>>
>> ANd just get it reformatted and ask to get its hardware tested the unit cleaned, sure its going to cost a bit but you have already got it in the shop and are generating costs so get it done.
>>
>> I have just had a system revived that stopped working the entire os crashed, the system died.
>>
>> Regreasing the syncs, clearing the dust and replacing the power supply and all small fans and its up.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 12/11/2017 8:55 a.m., Mary Otten wrote:
>>> I have this new machine and it has NVDA on it. But in Vda  does not load at start up. We are having some problems with the machine, and my husband thought he had narrowed it down to stuff screwing up when you restart rather than shutting down the machine. Anyway, with NVDA not loaded when the machine is shutting down, occasionally will hang up and e speak will start talking. That is not the synthesizer I have selected. But it does talk. And it is happened on a few occasions. When he took it back to the store to let the tech look at it, it did that once, and now the tech is blaming the whole thing on NVDA. I’m sure that’s not correct, but I don’t know what to tell them.
>>> Mary
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>




Re: come to my rescue

David <trailerdavid@...>
 

Well-known issue on modern HP machines. Do a search on the net, and see how much pepper they've got for the behavior. And that is even from sighted people who disagree in this change.


Short answer to your query:

You will need two eyes, and go into the BIOS - before yur computer really starts up. The behavior cannot be reverted, except from changing a setting in the BIOS. And BIOS is not accessible, once Windows has loaded, hence no dice for blind users on their own.


Complete instructions on how to get into BIOS, and which setting to change, will be found on the net. Search for something like:

    HP change behavior of function keys.

David
On 11/11/2017 7:43 PM, Marisane Moruthanyana wrote:

Evening gentlemen

 

I recently bought an HP laptop running win10.

 

I'm, however confused by the behaviour of the function keys.

 

All the F1-12 keys are inverted. I mean the following:

 

All the F-keys have a symbol on it. Normally you would press Fn + your to use it. On this laptop, it's reversed. The symbol is what you get when you press the button normally and you have to press Fn + F-key to get the usual action and sometimes even after pressing the fn key, nothing does what one knows.

 

The function keys with this laptop either mute or unmute the system with function key F6, for instance, and other function keys just do what one would not want them to do.

 

So, if I want to refresh a webpage, instead of just F5, I have to do Fn + F5

 

I want to change this to regular behavior. Would you please help?

 

Thanking you in advance.

 

Marisane from SA



Re: NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

Chris Mullins
 

There are 2 settings related to NVDA, when a log-on/secure screen is displayed and after a user logs into Windows. If any NVDA user has a profile in which the setting for log-on/secure screens is selected, those screens will be spoken irrespective of whether a particular user has NVDA loaded when working in their own Windows user account or not. For example if both you and your husband have a user account on the computer, you are an an NVDA user but your husband is not. If your husband logs into his account, NVDA is not loaded but if he logs out, Windows will load NVDA so the log in screen will be spoken to enable you to log-in if you so wish.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: 11 November 2017 22:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

OK, but why would it talk if it’s not loaded? If it’s never been started up, shouldn’t it stay silent?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@...> wrote:

Hi
When the Windows log-in and lock screen come into play, a Different NVDA profile is used to the one related to your user-id and it may be this that is providing speech during the shut-down process. Unless you specifically copy a modified profile across for system usage, it will use the default synth which is E-speak.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Mary Otten
Sent: 11 November 2017 19:56
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a
problem with shut down

I have this new machine and it has NVDA on it. But in Vda does not load at start up. We are having some problems with the machine, and my husband thought he had narrowed it down to stuff screwing up when you restart rather than shutting down the machine. Anyway, with NVDA not loaded when the machine is shutting down, occasionally will hang up and e speak will start talking. That is not the synthesizer I have selected. But it does talk. And it is happened on a few occasions. When he took it back to the store to let the tech look at it, it did that once, and now the tech is blaming the whole thing on NVDA. I’m sure that’s not correct, but I don’t know what to tell them.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone





Re: NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

 

start iac

rather start minue

type in uiac and set slider to 0

On 11/11/2017 2:35 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
Speaking of uac, it used to be possible to disable that. I don’t know if that’s still true with windows 10. It saves a lot of hassle. I suppose there are security implications of coarse.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2017, at 1:21 PM, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:

Well the uac can be.

To be honest when I get a system like this I just do a reformat and load things myself and test, test, test.

Usually when I load my configs it doesn't do that.

If it does its bios, drivers or both.

The issue is when I have to deal with user software which gets in the way.

I can do it that way but it takes longer, and costs the client and myself more time.

I'd prefur to just reformat and reinstall windows and then I have an easier time.

Ofcause after that loading each bit of software at a time will eventually yeald the error.

9 times out of 10 at that stage its new or updated software.

And if it gets to that state I use google.

Sometimes a user needs a function and then just cracks software that needs it or installs malware full software to get it working.

At that point I just ask them for the function and then I can google that.

There is enough free opensource or low cost software that I either find the entire package or the modules I need and if I am lucky a wrapper front end to put them together.

The issue is then to convince the user to use said software.

I would to be honest ask the tech what stuff is on there.

ANd just get it reformatted and ask to get its hardware tested the unit cleaned, sure its going to cost a bit but you have already got it in the shop and are generating costs so get it done.

I have just had a system revived that stopped working the entire os crashed, the system died.

Regreasing the syncs, clearing the dust and replacing the power supply and all small fans and its up.




On 12/11/2017 8:55 a.m., Mary Otten wrote:
I have this new machine and it has NVDA on it. But in Vda does not load at start up. We are having some problems with the machine, and my husband thought he had narrowed it down to stuff screwing up when you restart rather than shutting down the machine. Anyway, with NVDA not loaded when the machine is shutting down, occasionally will hang up and e speak will start talking. That is not the synthesizer I have selected. But it does talk. And it is happened on a few occasions. When he took it back to the store to let the tech look at it, it did that once, and now the tech is blaming the whole thing on NVDA. I’m sure that’s not correct, but I don’t know what to tell them.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

.


Re: NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

Mary Otten <motten53@...>
 

OK, but why would it talk if it’s not loaded? If it’s never been started up, shouldn’t it stay silent?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@...> wrote:

Hi
When the Windows log-in and lock screen come into play, a Different NVDA profile is used to the one related to your user-id and it may be this that is providing speech during the shut-down process. Unless you specifically copy a modified profile across for system usage, it will use the default synth which is E-speak.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: 11 November 2017 19:56
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

I have this new machine and it has NVDA on it. But in Vda does not load at start up. We are having some problems with the machine, and my husband thought he had narrowed it down to stuff screwing up when you restart rather than shutting down the machine. Anyway, with NVDA not loaded when the machine is shutting down, occasionally will hang up and e speak will start talking. That is not the synthesizer I have selected. But it does talk. And it is happened on a few occasions. When he took it back to the store to let the tech look at it, it did that once, and now the tech is blaming the whole thing on NVDA. I’m sure that’s not correct, but I don’t know what to tell them.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone





Re: NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

Chris Mullins
 

Hi
When the Windows log-in and lock screen come into play, a Different NVDA profile is used to the one related to your user-id and it may be this that is providing speech during the shut-down process. Unless you specifically copy a modified profile across for system usage, it will use the default synth which is E-speak.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: 11 November 2017 19:56
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

I have this new machine and it has NVDA on it. But in Vda does not load at start up. We are having some problems with the machine, and my husband thought he had narrowed it down to stuff screwing up when you restart rather than shutting down the machine. Anyway, with NVDA not loaded when the machine is shutting down, occasionally will hang up and e speak will start talking. That is not the synthesizer I have selected. But it does talk. And it is happened on a few occasions. When he took it back to the store to let the tech look at it, it did that once, and now the tech is blaming the whole thing on NVDA. I’m sure that’s not correct, but I don’t know what to tell them.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


Re: Beware latest CD Burner XP

 

What a load of bull! Damn! I hate how software companies push unwanted bloatware on us without any recourse. Disgusting and unbelievably wrong. I will be writing them an email shortly!

On 11/11/2017 04:42, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
It of course does run on later systems and is a very easy to use bit of software, but they just pushed the latest version to me, and it wants to install Avast anti virus. You have to use Screen navigation to find the boxes to check and uncheck to stop this and one little error will install avast and as we are all probably aware, it is inaccessible and hard to remove without sighted help and in some cases extra software. My advice is to not let it do anything. they had assured me that this interface on installing extra software was accessible, indeed it has been for some  of the recent updates but for some unknown reason they seem to have reverted to the old installer with the inaccessible boxes and text. I only noticed it when nothing would work so I did an nvda/b and heard the text. Its a real swine also to try and get object or screen nav to see this text. Hit and miss.

So beware, if you do click something, it will install avast and you will be stuffed. Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


Re: come to my rescue

Chris Mullins
 

Hi Marisane

I have a HP laptop, it’s about 5 years old now but I had the same  situation.  I had  to get sighted help as you need to access the bios to change the key behaviour.  It’s a one-time change, so all works well once it’s done.  BTW, there are several ladies who contribute to this list!

 

Cheers

Chris  

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Marisane Moruthanyana
Sent: 11 November 2017 18:44
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] come to my rescue

 

Evening gentlemen

 

I recently bought an HP laptop running win10.

 

I'm, however confused by the behaviour of the function keys.

 

All the F1-12 keys are inverted. I mean the following:

 

All the F-keys have a symbol on it. Normally you would press Fn + your to use it. On this laptop, it's reversed. The symbol is what you get when you press the button normally and you have to press Fn + F-key to get the usual action and sometimes even after pressing the fn key, nothing does what one knows.

 

The function keys with this laptop either mute or unmute the system with function key F6, for instance, and other function keys just do what one would not want them to do.

 

So, if I want to refresh a webpage, instead of just F5, I have to do Fn + F5

 

I want to change this to regular behavior. Would you please help?

 

Thanking you in advance.

 

Marisane from SA


Re: NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

Mary Otten <motten53@...>
 

Speaking of uac, it used to be possible to disable that. I don’t know if that’s still true with windows 10. It saves a lot of hassle. I suppose there are security implications of coarse.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2017, at 1:21 PM, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:

Well the uac can be.

To be honest when I get a system like this I just do a reformat and load things myself and test, test, test.

Usually when I load my configs it doesn't do that.

If it does its bios, drivers or both.

The issue is when I have to deal with user software which gets in the way.

I can do it that way but it takes longer, and costs the client and myself more time.

I'd prefur to just reformat and reinstall windows and then I have an easier time.

Ofcause after that loading each bit of software at a time will eventually yeald the error.

9 times out of 10 at that stage its new or updated software.

And if it gets to that state I use google.

Sometimes a user needs a function and then just cracks software that needs it or installs malware full software to get it working.

At that point I just ask them for the function and then I can google that.

There is enough free opensource or low cost software that I either find the entire package or the modules I need and if I am lucky a wrapper front end to put them together.

The issue is then to convince the user to use said software.

I would to be honest ask the tech what stuff is on there.

ANd just get it reformatted and ask to get its hardware tested the unit cleaned, sure its going to cost a bit but you have already got it in the shop and are generating costs so get it done.

I have just had a system revived that stopped working the entire os crashed, the system died.

Regreasing the syncs, clearing the dust and replacing the power supply and all small fans and its up.




On 12/11/2017 8:55 a.m., Mary Otten wrote:
I have this new machine and it has NVDA on it. But in Vda does not load at start up. We are having some problems with the machine, and my husband thought he had narrowed it down to stuff screwing up when you restart rather than shutting down the machine. Anyway, with NVDA not loaded when the machine is shutting down, occasionally will hang up and e speak will start talking. That is not the synthesizer I have selected. But it does talk. And it is happened on a few occasions. When he took it back to the store to let the tech look at it, it did that once, and now the tech is blaming the whole thing on NVDA. I’m sure that’s not correct, but I don’t know what to tell them.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

.



Re: NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

Mary Otten <motten53@...>
 

Well, this is a new machine. I have 15 days to send it back no problem. So if they don’t get it up and running and let me have it home by the time I 15 days are done, I will except it. I already told them in the store to take off all the crap where including the virus trials etc. and make it look like nice pure clean windows. They said they would do it. And it look like they had, but there is this funky little problem. So we shall see. But so far, I’m not generating any cost, because I still have a week before it’s mine so to speak. Should be back on Tuesday. If problems arise again by next weekend, it’s gone for good.

Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2017, at 1:21 PM, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:

Well the uac can be.

To be honest when I get a system like this I just do a reformat and load things myself and test, test, test.

Usually when I load my configs it doesn't do that.

If it does its bios, drivers or both.

The issue is when I have to deal with user software which gets in the way.

I can do it that way but it takes longer, and costs the client and myself more time.

I'd prefur to just reformat and reinstall windows and then I have an easier time.

Ofcause after that loading each bit of software at a time will eventually yeald the error.

9 times out of 10 at that stage its new or updated software.

And if it gets to that state I use google.

Sometimes a user needs a function and then just cracks software that needs it or installs malware full software to get it working.

At that point I just ask them for the function and then I can google that.

There is enough free opensource or low cost software that I either find the entire package or the modules I need and if I am lucky a wrapper front end to put them together.

The issue is then to convince the user to use said software.

I would to be honest ask the tech what stuff is on there.

ANd just get it reformatted and ask to get its hardware tested the unit cleaned, sure its going to cost a bit but you have already got it in the shop and are generating costs so get it done.

I have just had a system revived that stopped working the entire os crashed, the system died.

Regreasing the syncs, clearing the dust and replacing the power supply and all small fans and its up.




On 12/11/2017 8:55 a.m., Mary Otten wrote:
I have this new machine and it has NVDA on it. But in Vda does not load at start up. We are having some problems with the machine, and my husband thought he had narrowed it down to stuff screwing up when you restart rather than shutting down the machine. Anyway, with NVDA not loaded when the machine is shutting down, occasionally will hang up and e speak will start talking. That is not the synthesizer I have selected. But it does talk. And it is happened on a few occasions. When he took it back to the store to let the tech look at it, it did that once, and now the tech is blaming the whole thing on NVDA. I’m sure that’s not correct, but I don’t know what to tell them.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

.



Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

On a lot of machines I do some business stuff on a semi perminant basis I do load free software which is not necessarily part of that business.

I am ofcaused asked about x software version, and x program.

My responce is, its for my use when doing admin work and servicing.

It aint yours, you are free to run it, but if you don't don't I'll even make it so you can't access it by accident.

For me on all systems 7zip, java, a codec pack from klite and ccleaner are the main ones.

And a lot of extra runtimes and the like, some pcpitstop web software and thats about it.

Not all of it is for those to use its just there for example, I need to make a cd, or extract a file.

Or check a config or clear junk files.

Nothing is set to autorun, if they say anything I just say I can't do my job without it and its not like its licenced anyway and just leave it alone and thats worked for me.

On 12/11/2017 10:14 a.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:
Hi,

It has nothing to do with the laws at all. They are like that with all
software. I've worked with the tresurary board who sets the standards.
However what you run into is each department has its own IT rules that it
runs on. My wife could get a phone threw work however they only offer
blackberrys and will not let her get an apple phone. It is all about them
being legally able to get clearance bby the government for their software.
That's like I have seen their software catalog and they offer 7zip but no
other open source software.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik
burggraaf
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2017 1:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Mike, I live in Ontario. I am not a lawyer, or a legislature, however, I
think I'm pretty familiar with the accessibility legislation we have here.
There is nothing as far as I know in the accessibility legislation that says
that accommodations need to be insured. I could be wrong. Feel free to
correct me.

Dolphin maybe trying to move itself in, but right now, we are looking at an
accessibility situation here that involves Freedom Scientific Jaws for
Windows, and non-visual desktop access nvda. The people who own and develop
Jaws are motivated by money. As soon as Jaws stops being a financially
viable product, it will cease to be developed and produced. At that point,
the government will not be able to purchase it, because it won't be
available for sale. Government offices will probably be the final holdouts
in the great switch, but at some point technology will force them to do the
right thing, even if they manage to hold out against employee and user
demands.
Although government is ridiculously slow to change, governments were the
first early adopters of the mobile platforms in the late 90s and early 2000.
Mobile technologies and their accessibility Solutions are the way of the
future. Because of what first Apple, and then Google have done, governments
are already issuing devices to their employees with disabilities where
accessibility already comes standard. In fact, Windows is currently the only
platform where accessibility does not come standard.
At some point, accessible procurement may be a factor in governments finally
switching either to a different desktop platform, or two entire mobile
platforms. Of course, they will resist this change, but there are two
inexorable factors. First, user demand. Accommodation legislation is usually
worded in such a way that if a user asks for a specific accommodation, that
has to be taken into consideration. Second, you can't buy something that
isn't on the market. As demand for Windows decreases, so too will the demand
for Jaws for Windows, and as I said, they will not continue to produce
something they can't sell. Come talk to me in another 3 or 4 years.



On November 11, 2017 1:08:23 PM "Mike and Jenna" <schwaltze@...>
wrote:

Lol You better have a long talk with the top guys at the government as they
do not follow your logic. They want software that comes from insured
companys and other things like that nvda could never afford to be insured
like that here in Canada or the use. There is many reasons that nvda will
not be part of the government unless somethings changes and money is raised
to get them insured over here. Also that still wouldn't work as they need to
be insured every year. There is nothing that holds nvda labial if something
goes wrong like there is with freedom.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik
burggraaf
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 11:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Steve, anyone can alter the code of an open source project, true. a what
I fail to understand is, how is this an inherent ecurity concern? The
altered code must be installed in order to do what you author it to do. You
can blow up the code five ways from Sunday, but if you are installing
official builds, no one will ever see your damaged code. In theory, I
suppose someone could hack the update server, place a damaged update into
the update queue, and roll it out to other computers. I have to say though,
I think that's a very very miniscule risk.

Administrators of public computer systems generally lock things down, so
that users cannot get access to the program files folder, the windows
folder, and other critical system functions. Users can not simply walk up
and install anything they want, regardless of whether it is open source or
not. If your systems are secure, and the Distribution Systems for the
software are secure, and the policies you operate under are secure, then
regardless of whether the software is open source or not, the entire
procedure should be secure.

If you are a foolish administrator, allowing users to install things
willy-nilly on public computers, then there is a very high risk of that
someone will go to virusladengames.com, and download a bunch of crap to the
computer. I would consider this a much greater risk, then securely
installing open source software to provide accessibility.

Unless I am greatly missing something, I submit that installing code from an
unknown source is a security risk, but the innate ability to modify code is
not.



On November 10, 2017 10:42:26 AM "Steve Nutt" <steve@...> wrote:

Hi,

I would have thought the security aspect is obvious. Since it is open
source, anyone has access to the code, and anyone can alter it. So I can
understand workplace concerns.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya
shah
Sent: 09 November 2017 06:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of
the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this
assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has
the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to
substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security
vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above
questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss
such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could
give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.




--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
@BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
7506221750


























Re: NVDA speaking even when it’s not loaded when there’s a problem with shut down

 

Well the uac can be.

To be honest when I get a system like this I just do a reformat and load things myself and test, test, test.

Usually when I load my configs it doesn't do that.

If it does its bios, drivers or both.

The issue is when I have to deal with user software which gets in the way.

I can do it that way but it takes longer, and costs the client and myself more time.

I'd prefur to just reformat and reinstall windows and then I have an easier time.

Ofcause after that loading each bit of software at a time will eventually yeald the error.

9 times out of 10 at that stage its new or updated software.

And if it gets to that state I use google.

Sometimes a user needs a function and then just cracks software that needs it or installs malware full software to get it working.

At that point I just ask them for the function and then I can google that.

There is enough free opensource or low cost software that I either find the entire package or the modules I need and if I am lucky a wrapper front end to put them together.

The issue is then to convince the user to use said software.

I would to be honest ask the tech what stuff is on there.

ANd just get it reformatted and ask to get its hardware tested the unit cleaned, sure its going to cost a bit but you have already got it in the shop and are generating costs so get it done.

I have just had a system revived that stopped working the entire os crashed, the system died.

Regreasing the syncs, clearing the dust and replacing the power supply and all small fans and its up.

On 12/11/2017 8:55 a.m., Mary Otten wrote:
I have this new machine and it has NVDA on it. But in Vda does not load at start up. We are having some problems with the machine, and my husband thought he had narrowed it down to stuff screwing up when you restart rather than shutting down the machine. Anyway, with NVDA not loaded when the machine is shutting down, occasionally will hang up and e speak will start talking. That is not the synthesizer I have selected. But it does talk. And it is happened on a few occasions. When he took it back to the store to let the tech look at it, it did that once, and now the tech is blaming the whole thing on NVDA. I’m sure that’s not correct, but I don’t know what to tell them.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

.


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Mike and Jenna <schwaltze@...>
 

Hi,

It has nothing to do with the laws at all. They are like that with all
software. I've worked with the tresurary board who sets the standards.
However what you run into is each department has its own IT rules that it
runs on. My wife could get a phone threw work however they only offer
blackberrys and will not let her get an apple phone. It is all about them
being legally able to get clearance bby the government for their software.
That's like I have seen their software catalog and they offer 7zip but no
other open source software.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik
burggraaf
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2017 1:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Mike, I live in Ontario. I am not a lawyer, or a legislature, however, I
think I'm pretty familiar with the accessibility legislation we have here.
There is nothing as far as I know in the accessibility legislation that says
that accommodations need to be insured. I could be wrong. Feel free to
correct me.

Dolphin maybe trying to move itself in, but right now, we are looking at an
accessibility situation here that involves Freedom Scientific Jaws for
Windows, and non-visual desktop access nvda. The people who own and develop
Jaws are motivated by money. As soon as Jaws stops being a financially
viable product, it will cease to be developed and produced. At that point,
the government will not be able to purchase it, because it won't be
available for sale. Government offices will probably be the final holdouts
in the great switch, but at some point technology will force them to do the
right thing, even if they manage to hold out against employee and user
demands.
Although government is ridiculously slow to change, governments were the
first early adopters of the mobile platforms in the late 90s and early 2000.
Mobile technologies and their accessibility Solutions are the way of the
future. Because of what first Apple, and then Google have done, governments
are already issuing devices to their employees with disabilities where
accessibility already comes standard. In fact, Windows is currently the only
platform where accessibility does not come standard.
At some point, accessible procurement may be a factor in governments finally
switching either to a different desktop platform, or two entire mobile
platforms. Of course, they will resist this change, but there are two
inexorable factors. First, user demand. Accommodation legislation is usually
worded in such a way that if a user asks for a specific accommodation, that
has to be taken into consideration. Second, you can't buy something that
isn't on the market. As demand for Windows decreases, so too will the demand
for Jaws for Windows, and as I said, they will not continue to produce
something they can't sell. Come talk to me in another 3 or 4 years.



On November 11, 2017 1:08:23 PM "Mike and Jenna" <schwaltze@...>
wrote:

Lol You better have a long talk with the top guys at the government as they
do not follow your logic. They want software that comes from insured
companys and other things like that nvda could never afford to be insured
like that here in Canada or the use. There is many reasons that nvda will
not be part of the government unless somethings changes and money is raised
to get them insured over here. Also that still wouldn't work as they need to
be insured every year. There is nothing that holds nvda labial if something
goes wrong like there is with freedom.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik
burggraaf
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 11:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Steve, anyone can alter the code of an open source project, true. a what
I fail to understand is, how is this an inherent ecurity concern? The
altered code must be installed in order to do what you author it to do. You
can blow up the code five ways from Sunday, but if you are installing
official builds, no one will ever see your damaged code. In theory, I
suppose someone could hack the update server, place a damaged update into
the update queue, and roll it out to other computers. I have to say though,
I think that's a very very miniscule risk.

Administrators of public computer systems generally lock things down, so
that users cannot get access to the program files folder, the windows
folder, and other critical system functions. Users can not simply walk up
and install anything they want, regardless of whether it is open source or
not. If your systems are secure, and the Distribution Systems for the
software are secure, and the policies you operate under are secure, then
regardless of whether the software is open source or not, the entire
procedure should be secure.

If you are a foolish administrator, allowing users to install things
willy-nilly on public computers, then there is a very high risk of that
someone will go to virusladengames.com, and download a bunch of crap to the
computer. I would consider this a much greater risk, then securely
installing open source software to provide accessibility.

Unless I am greatly missing something, I submit that installing code from an
unknown source is a security risk, but the innate ability to modify code is
not.



On November 10, 2017 10:42:26 AM "Steve Nutt" <steve@...> wrote:

Hi,

I would have thought the security aspect is obvious. Since it is open
source, anyone has access to the code, and anyone can alter it. So I can
understand workplace concerns.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya
shah
Sent: 09 November 2017 06:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of
the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this
assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has
the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to
substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security
vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above
questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss
such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could
give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.





--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
@BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
7506221750


Re: come to my rescue

 

It does the keys are called action keys.

On 12/11/2017 8:40 a.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Often this behaviour can be changed in a control panel app or in the bios but often it needs sighted help to fix it as default.

I am going to ask this specific question of anyone trying to sell me a laptop as unless its obvious how to fix it you can get into a right mess.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark" <mark@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2017 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] come to my rescue


Hi yes this is normal  on lots of laptops now
For example if you press f6 and F7 on a  acer laptop it will turn the volume up and down you have to press fn key to get F6 on its one
Mark.

Tune in to the number one station on the web TAFN radio
http://listen.tafn.org.uk:8000/listen
Or to find out more and more ways of listening go to
www.tafn.org.uk/radio
part of the accessible friends network
www.tafn.org.uk
Registered UK Charity: #1108043.

From: Marisane Moruthanyana
Sent: 11 November 2017 18:43
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] come to my rescue

Evening gentlemen

I recently bought an HP laptop running win10.

I'm, however confused by the behaviour of the function keys.

All the F1-12 keys are inverted. I mean the following:

All the F-keys have a symbol on it. Normally you would press Fn + your to use it. On this laptop, it's reversed. The symbol is what you get when you press the button normally and you have to press Fn + F-key to get the usual action and sometimes even after pressing the fn key, nothing does what one knows.

The function keys with this laptop either mute or unmute the system with function key F6, for instance, and other function keys just do what one would not want them to do.

So, if I want to refresh a webpage, instead of just F5, I have to do Fn + F5

I want to change this to regular behavior. Would you please help?

Thanking you in advance.

Marisane from SA






Re: do you know one accessible, simple to use and free audio recorder?

 

I have all 3 of them, what I like about goldwave is it uses cddb which is what nero uses I think it uses gracenote to.

The thing is its also fast.

On 12/11/2017 8:37 a.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Depends what you call simple. Many do record but as often when you do this you next need to edit the files, then I'd still use a program like audacity or if you can afford a little beit Goldwave.
There is virtual recorder but not tested it on XP as I think its aimed at those with sound cards that you cannot record streams from etc.

If you have a mobile phone, just press record is your thing.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2017 6:46 PM
Subject: [nvda] do you know one accessible, simple to use and free audio recorder?


hello every one.
i need one program which can record mp3, be freeware or opensource,
safe, reliable, simple to use, supports all windows versions since xp,
accessible and if possible, without extra software offering.
except jetaudio that i realy cant use, please help me.
God bless you all!

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




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