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Re: Firefox 57 Update: My Analysis

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I am of the opinion that insufficient testing has been done and something is stopping it running on our machines when the previous version was fine. If this can be found and add ons found to do what we need fine, but I'm ducking out till the thing is reliably working on all systems. I have 8 gigs of memory on an i5 and really there should not be just a completely unknown screen straight out of the box as the accessibility system we all rely on is still on at the moment, obviously this is not being seen by my windows 7 system so somebody needs to find out what is going on here.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kwork" <istherelife@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 Update: My Analysis


Ron, very interesting read here, and thanks for your thoughtful testing with
various sites. While I know others' results will vary, another message right
above yours saying the new update had made their NVDA unusable on it, it
does make for an interesting read.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 7:56 AM
Subject: [nvda] Firefox 57 Update: My Analysis


Hi Group,


Well, it's finally here: the much talked about full release of Firefox
57. I opened Firefox shortly after 7:00 AM Eastern Time USA this
morning and got the update Firefox dialogue. I am now running Firefox 57.0.


Here are some of the conditions under which I am running Firefox 57.0
full release.

Windows 10 latest update version 17.09

8 core 64 bit Intel composite machine

12 GB RAM 13.8 GB Virtual memory.

Firefox 32 bit version.


Here is my basic analysis.


I first tried a run of the mill web page--an old still functional local
ISP that offers dial-up service and has low graphics and is not very
cluttered: The Blue Moon Internet System: http://www.bluemoon.net. The
navigation and overall performance was normal--I did not notice anything
different from earlier versions of Firefox.


Being somewhat encouraged, I next visited one of my favorite sites
espn.com and one of its sub pages for NFL articles:
https://espn.com/nfl. This site is fairly cluttered but usually very
simple to navigate. Again, I had no real issues. Navigational keys,
automatic reading and other basics operated normally.


I then got a little bolder. I visited the CNN website:
https://cnn.com. It might have taken a little longer time to load than
normal, but I don't visit that site very often, so I am really not
sure. It seemed relatively normal with perhaps a small lag--2 or 3
seconds maybe. Once the page loaded, I had no real issues. I was able
to click on various section: world, USA, sports, breaking news, ETC. I
chose to read the article about the coup in Zimbabwe--that deposed long
time and ailing President Robert Magobbi. Everything seemed to work
normally.


I then got real brave and visited the Yahoo sports page:
https://sports.yahoo.com. This site hasn't worked very well for years.
The page refreshes quite often--about every 30 seconds to a minute--even
moreso during active sports events. This site also has the habbit of
moving to the search field and activating forms/edit mode with every
page load. All these aspects of this page were evident with Firefox 57,
but they weren't any worse than with earlier versions of Firefox. I
really wish Yahoo would fix these pages. Even using JAWS 17, the
suppress web page refreshes hasn't worked in years and still
doesn't--but I digress.


I then visited various live streaming pages which had accessible
embedded players: Democracy Now: https://democracynow.org and AM 740
Toronto: https://zoomerradio.ca. Both these sites read normally and the
embedded players showed buttons and I could activate, play, pause and
control volumes as normal. There were no significant issues.


Finally, it has been reported that the downloads window does not read in
Firefox 57. I tried downloading a small fie of 11 MB in size from the
file storage site Send Space: https://www.sendspace.com. The download
window showed up normally and I saw the progress as usual. Again, there
was no significant difference from ealrier versions of Firefox.


Conclusion and possible causality:


I see very little difference using Firefox 57 with my current system.
There may be a bit of sluggishness on sum pages, but not very much. The
causes I am going to site are simply educated guesses--nothing more.
You will see that I am using the 32 bit version of Firefox. I believe
there is a 64 bit, but I have lways been warned off from using this
version. I have always used a 32 bit version and had very good
results. Maybe if some people are using the 64 bit version on a 64 bit
system, that could cause issue. In addition, my system is a reasonably
fast system. With 8 core and a lot of RAM and virtual memory, it is a
real speed demon. The system boots in about 25 seconds from a cold
boot. Programs launch rapidly and seldom lock up. Although Gene Asner
might bite me (we've had debates over fast VS slow systems and how they
affect other programs) I am wondering if my fast system mitigates issues
with Firefox sluggishness and bad performance that others are having.
(sorry Gene only kidding!) Again, this is simply an educated guess, but
there must be some intrinsic issue on more than a few systems running
Firefox 57 that are causing all these negative reports that I am
receiving on this and other mailing lists for the blind.


Hopefully, this analysis will induce others to give Firefox 57 a try and
allay some of the fear associated with it's installation.



--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"







Re: firefox updating and becoming unusable

Richard Kuzma
 

I download version 56 and it is fine now.
Also for anyone;s information
I called freedom scientific and they were aware, I was told they changed the
way their accessibility works with it, but who knows.
I also told firefox not to update before I installed the old version.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 11:13 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox updating and becoming unusable

Thank good ness somebody else has this issue. Everyone else is saying its
marginally slower and only no script and some add ons fail. In my and your
case its just not accessible and we need to discover the reason. I am using
32 bit Firefox and windows 7 64. If this is also you one of these might well

be the reason. I suggest downloading version 52esr and sticking to that
version until the situation is clearer. 57 is a bit of a mess since its half

way to being a completely different browser to 56.
If you read all the Firefox messages here and read some of the nvaccess
recent blogs, or the large item on the Jaws website you will find that this
is a serious issue, more for some than others and all in the name of making
it less hackable but in doing so making it hard for screenreaders to
actually use it at all, at least in its eventual finished state.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Kuzma via Groups.Io" <rmkuzma=aol.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:44 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox updating and becoming unusable


Can someone tell me what just happened.

I opened firefox and it says is updating to latest version and it updated.

Now it does not work with nvda or even jaws.

Please help.

Thanks






Re: firefox 57 not working / desperate

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

No it just says unknown here back on 52 now. Windows 7 64 32 bit ff.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Kuzma via Groups.Io" <rmkuzma=aol.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 3:28 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox 57 not working / desperate


Good morning,
I see you guys have firefox 57 working, mine is not
It installed and updated and now says something about information is not
displayable in tab view and to update screen reader and so on.
I tried with nvda and jaws,
Using windows seven, can someone help
Thanks


Re: Firefox 57 Update: My Analysis

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

No I use the 32 bit with windows 7 64 and nothing but the menus actually works at all.
Same with another person on this list. Can somebody try it with windows 7?
Brian

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Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:56 PM
Subject: [nvda] Firefox 57 Update: My Analysis


Hi Group,


Well, it's finally here: the much talked about full release of Firefox 57. I opened Firefox shortly after 7:00 AM Eastern Time USA this morning and got the update Firefox dialogue. I am now running Firefox 57.0.


Here are some of the conditions under which I am running Firefox 57.0 full release.

Windows 10 latest update version 17.09

8 core 64 bit Intel composite machine

12 GB RAM 13.8 GB Virtual memory.

Firefox 32 bit version.


Here is my basic analysis.


I first tried a run of the mill web page--an old still functional local ISP that offers dial-up service and has low graphics and is not very cluttered: The Blue Moon Internet System: http://www.bluemoon.net. The navigation and overall performance was normal--I did not notice anything different from earlier versions of Firefox.


Being somewhat encouraged, I next visited one of my favorite sites espn.com and one of its sub pages for NFL articles: https://espn.com/nfl. This site is fairly cluttered but usually very simple to navigate. Again, I had no real issues. Navigational keys, automatic reading and other basics operated normally.


I then got a little bolder. I visited the CNN website: https://cnn.com. It might have taken a little longer time to load than normal, but I don't visit that site very often, so I am really not sure. It seemed relatively normal with perhaps a small lag--2 or 3 seconds maybe. Once the page loaded, I had no real issues. I was able to click on various section: world, USA, sports, breaking news, ETC. I chose to read the article about the coup in Zimbabwe--that deposed long time and ailing President Robert Magobbi. Everything seemed to work normally.


I then got real brave and visited the Yahoo sports page: https://sports.yahoo.com. This site hasn't worked very well for years. The page refreshes quite often--about every 30 seconds to a minute--even moreso during active sports events. This site also has the habbit of moving to the search field and activating forms/edit mode with every page load. All these aspects of this page were evident with Firefox 57, but they weren't any worse than with earlier versions of Firefox. I really wish Yahoo would fix these pages. Even using JAWS 17, the suppress web page refreshes hasn't worked in years and still doesn't--but I digress.


I then visited various live streaming pages which had accessible embedded players: Democracy Now: https://democracynow.org and AM 740 Toronto: https://zoomerradio.ca. Both these sites read normally and the embedded players showed buttons and I could activate, play, pause and control volumes as normal. There were no significant issues.


Finally, it has been reported that the downloads window does not read in Firefox 57. I tried downloading a small fie of 11 MB in size from the file storage site Send Space: https://www.sendspace.com. The download window showed up normally and I saw the progress as usual. Again, there was no significant difference from ealrier versions of Firefox.


Conclusion and possible causality:


I see very little difference using Firefox 57 with my current system. There may be a bit of sluggishness on sum pages, but not very much. The causes I am going to site are simply educated guesses--nothing more. You will see that I am using the 32 bit version of Firefox. I believe there is a 64 bit, but I have lways been warned off from using this version. I have always used a 32 bit version and had very good results. Maybe if some people are using the 64 bit version on a 64 bit system, that could cause issue. In addition, my system is a reasonably fast system. With 8 core and a lot of RAM and virtual memory, it is a real speed demon. The system boots in about 25 seconds from a cold boot. Programs launch rapidly and seldom lock up. Although Gene Asner might bite me (we've had debates over fast VS slow systems and how they affect other programs) I am wondering if my fast system mitigates issues with Firefox sluggishness and bad performance that others are having. (sorry Gene only kidding!) Again, this is simply an educated guess, but there must be some intrinsic issue on more than a few systems running Firefox 57 that are causing all these negative reports that I am receiving on this and other mailing lists for the blind.


Hopefully, this analysis will induce others to give Firefox 57 a try and allay some of the fear associated with it's installation.



--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



Re: firefox updating and becoming unusable

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Thank good ness somebody else has this issue. Everyone else is saying its marginally slower and only no script and some add ons fail. In my and your case its just not accessible and we need to discover the reason. I am using 32 bit Firefox and windows 7 64. If this is also you one of these might well be the reason. I suggest downloading version 52esr and sticking to that version until the situation is clearer. 57 is a bit of a mess since its half way to being a completely different browser to 56.
If you read all the Firefox messages here and read some of the nvaccess recent blogs, or the large item on the Jaws website you will find that this is a serious issue, more for some than others and all in the name of making it less hackable but in doing so making it hard for screenreaders to actually use it at all, at least in its eventual finished state.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Kuzma via Groups.Io" <rmkuzma=aol.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:44 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox updating and becoming unusable


Can someone tell me what just happened.

I opened firefox and it says is updating to latest version and it updated.

Now it does not work with nvda or even jaws.

Please help.

Thanks






Re: can't use the letter K to get from link to link

Gene
 

Always use cursor keys to navigate within web pages is set properly for screen-reader use by default.  As I recall, its off.  Navigation by screen-readers is done in browser mode by the screen-reader, not by the browser. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: zahra
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link

hello.
did you test with firefox?
in firefox, tools, options, find the last item which is advance.
advance in options, has five parts.
the first part is general and the first item is Always use the cursor
keys to navigate within pages

press space on it to activate it!
hope that help, God bless you all!

On 11/15/17, Jacob Kruger <jacob@...> wrote:
> First thing is to just open something as simple as notepad, and, make
> sure all the normal key combinations work like they should - things like
> ' ", shift + number row keys, etc. - that's a common symptom if, for
> example, someone has switched over to UK english keyboard layout, but,
> is used to the US english layout.
>
>
> Then, think the easiest way to double-check is to find the control
> panel, find language, and, tab around the window that should come up,
> until you find something like a list of languages installed, and, for
> example, mine is there set to English (South Africa). Keyboard layout:
> US. Available for download
> Keyboard layout: US.
>
>
> But, this might not be relevant at all, if the keyboard operates
> normally in other contexts, and, would then just suggest trying it out
> in a different browser to see if it still misbehaves, since that would
> then point out that it might indeed be an NVDA configuration issue?
>
>
> Stay well
>
>
> Jacob Kruger
> Blind Biker
> Skype: BlindZA
> "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
>
> On 2017/11/15 09:13, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
>>
>> I'm using the latest version of windows 10 which is the fall creators
>> update.
>>
>> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of
>> *Jacob Kruger
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 11:06 PM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link
>>
>> Really depends on operating system version, and, honestly, it was just
>> a form of guess - if keyboard works fine in other contexts, then it's
>> somewhat unlikely?
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 2017/11/15 08:43, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
>>
>>     How do I change that?
>>
>>     *From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>     [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Jacob Kruger
>>     *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:19 PM
>>     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link
>>
>>     Makes me think that maybe your input language has been set to some
>>     language other than US english, and, so, your keyboard is behaving
>>     oddly?
>>
>>     Jacob Kruger
>>
>>     Blind Biker
>>
>>     Skype: BlindZA
>>
>>     "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>>     On 2017/11/15 04:39, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
>>
>>         The weird thing is that it happens in internet explorer. Not
>>         only that but if I'm trying to read a title bar in IE, I get
>>         "0 T" instead of the insert key. I don't have that problem in
>>         microsoft edge.
>>
>>         *From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>         [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Christopher-Mark
>>         Gilland
>>         *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 6:10 PM
>>         *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>         *Subject:* Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link
>>         to link
>>
>>         Aa, sounds like somehow your NVDA key got unmapped from the
>>         insert key. Go into the NVDA menu, then preferences, general,
>>         and make sure that the NVDA modifier for insert is checked. If
>>         you wind up having to check it, then be sure to save your
>>         configuration afterwards with NVDA+CTRL+C.
>>
>>         ---
>>         Christopher Gilland
>>         Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
>>
>>         http://www.gshministry.org
>>         (980) 500-9575
>>
>>             ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>             *From:* Rosemarie Chavarria <mailto:knitqueen2007@...>
>>
>>             *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>
>>             *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 5:27 PM
>>
>>             *Subject:* [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link
>>             to link
>>
>>             Hi, everyone,
>>
>>             Recently I had to have my computer repaired. Yesterday I
>>             brought it home from the shop but found that now I can't
>>             get to the links list with NVDA f-7 or the letter K.
>>             Whoever repaired my computer must have changed some
>>             settings on it. I have the proper boxes checked but don't
>>             know why this isn't working. Here is what I was trying to
>>             do. I wanted to go to the Gmail site to find out if I had
>>             messages in my spam folder that aren't spam. When I hit K
>>             to go from link to link, all I get is K and nothing else.
>>             When I hit NVDA f-7 to go to the links list, I get a
>>             message asking if I want to turn on caret browsing. What
>>             could bee causing this?
>>
>>             Thanks for your help in advance.
>>
>>             Rosemarie
>>
>>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org



Re: firefox what was the fuss exactly?

Gene
 

I was clarifying my position because I wasn't sure it was stated as clearly as it should have been or if it was being understood as well as it should have been.  And I think despite you evidently disagreeing, that the underlying poingt is worth considering.  Excessive dependence on optional features may lead to problems in certain contexts.  If its your computer, you can set it up as you wish.  If it's a friends computer or a work computer, or a library computer, you may not be able to and excessive dependence can make it harder to do things in various contexts than otherwise.
 
Gene. 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox what was the fuss exactly?

Since you are determined to have an argument about this, would you like a
five minute argument or a longer one we have arguments on offer this week!

Brian

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Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox what was the fuss exactly?


There are some sounds that are important because you can't get information
efficiently about something such as a USB connection in other ways.  I may
not have made it as clear as I should have in my first message, but I'm
talking specifically about sounds in contexts such as browser sounds, where
the information can be efficiently gotten in other ways.  There are
advantages and disadvantages in various browsers but making whether sounds
are available in a browser be a very important factor in determining whether
to use that browser is, in my opinion, emphasizing sounds that are optional
to a far more central position than they should be.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: brian
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox what was the fuss exactly?


            I think that the reason that some blind people like sounds is it
gives us a indacation of what's going on just like the sighted can see at
glance.  It's like windows sounds.  We have the windows music to let us know
that our computer is on.  We have other windows sounds like the sound we
hear when we plug a thumbdrive in or unplug it.  If we did not hear this
sound we would think that there is a problem but if there was no sound then
how would we know that there was a problem.  Sounds may not be necessary but
they can really help us greatly to know what is happening.  I don't have my
sounds on in my webie brouser but I would not fault somone if they did.  I
do think that it's important to a sound for down loads because if there is a
problem with your internet connection then you would know.  Again the
sighted can just look but we can't.  Alot of people don't have good internet
and it can and does loose connection quite frequently.

Brian Sackrider




On 11/14/2017 9:04 AM, Gene wrote:

  I want to make my position clear and discuss another aspect of the current
situation in this rather long message.

  If people want to use sounds, there is nothing wrong with that but you
don't need them and my position is that being so dependent on them that you
make that a major determining factor on what browser to use is being too
dependent.  That's my position.  I didn't say they are worthless nor that
people shouldn't use them.  I'm talking about being too dependent on one
aspect of a program when that aspect isn't central to the program and when
there may be better programs in general that don't have this specific
characteristic.
  I'm saying that if someone considers sounds in browsers to be so important
that that is a major factor in deciding what browser to use, I consider that
to be too dependent.  There are other efficient ways to tell things when
using a browser.  If a page hasn't loaded, you can't move around.  Tabbing
or down arrowing once or twice will tell you.  I'm not saying, as you said,
that they are pointless.  I'm saying that almost anything sounds do, can be
either efficiently inferred or checked by other methods and that changing
from one browser to another based either only or largely on sounds, is
making this one characteristic of a browser too important.

  I don't want my position to be misunderstood.  If people want to use
sounds, then that's fine;  I'm saying that dependence on them to an
excessive degree is not desirable if it leads to decisions on what programs
to use in a certain class when trying to decide between program a and b that
do roughly the same thing.  Browsers have various advantages and
disadvantages and sound is only one aspect of a program.
  Also, the changes being made in firefox, according to a review I've read,
make it even faster than Chrome.  It isn't much faster, at least now, and I
don't think it matters but if people read the article about these changes
posted last week from Marco's Accessibility blog, these changes may result
in screen-readers being far more capable to work on complex pages that have
embedded programs or where the pages are far more interactive than
traditional web pages, and that increasing numbers of web pages are, and
will be more complex over time.  Therefore, I find the attitude of blaming
Mozilla for what it says it intends to be only a temporary loss of
performance for blind users, and writing as though they are going to
permanently use a different browser without even seeing the results of the
work being done is disturbing.  At the moment, Chrome may be better than
Firefoxs in its latest version because of the changes.  But blind people may
be better served by what Mozilla is doing after the initial inconvenience.

  How often do sighted people complain about things like road construction
and repair, but would they never use the road again because of the temporary
inconvenience?  They may use a different road during the repairs and the
road may even be closed at times, but they return to it when it is in good
order again.

  Gene
  ----- Original Message -----

  From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
  Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 3:11 AM
  To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
  Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox what was the fuss exactly?


  Well the beta I tried simply refused to say anything but unknown on any
  page, though most of the menus still worked.

  I'm not inclined to update since I use the sound, particularly the one
when
  a page has fully loaded and the one that tells me a link has in fact
  activated and of course download complete


  I have seen elsewhere where people think these sounds are pointless. I
  dispute this as everyone is different and I really only use browsers where
I
  can actually hear that things are going on. for example I've always
noticed
  that screenreaders sometimes do not figure out the page has loaded, but
  navigational sounds does and hence allows me to re focus the screenreader.
   Also I would not know if a download had completed if the download pane
was
  hidden without a sound.
   Some links click but clickables do not so sometimes you can figure out
what
  is which sort of link on a page this way. In a way it would be even better
  if button link and clickable had different sounds to save one getting
  confused.

  I think the list of things some of us want in a browser is obviously going
  to be different to what the sighted want, so one will really need somebody
  at Mozilla etc to write blind specific add ons for a browser.
   Its far easier when trying to teach somebody how to use a browser to be
  able to say, if you do not hear x then its not worked.
   Brian

  bglists@...
  Sent via blueyonder.
  Please address personal email to:-
  briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
  in the display name field.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
  To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
  Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 6:42 PM
  Subject: [nvda] firefox what was the fuss exactly?


  > Hi.
  >
  > Well While brousing firefox ftp today I decided to try firefox 57 as it
  > was on releases today.
  >
  > What exactly was the fuss?
  >
  > Firefox interface loads fast, no lag, but I havn't tried big sites maybe
a
  > couple seconds for audiogames forum.
  >
  > Addons, noscript, aparently this will not work till actual release of
  > firefox.
  >
  > Navigational sounds.
  >
  > I am trying to find a replacement, the author of this said that because
  > the new interface doesn't allow for registry access one can't get the
list
  > of events to do things with.
  >
  > I tried 3 of them so far.
  >
  > Notification sound, noise and download sound.
  >
  > Download sound has no options or rather any way I can configure it to
  > suit.
  >
  > Noise has options but there are no default events set and I tried to add
  > what I wanted and define its sounds but I can't set values and going to
  > its website found that while there is a web version all features are
  > basically not there.
  >
  > Notification sound is another, but its got no options screen.
  >
  > Something like noise would be fine if it had an default event list which
  > just used the windows schemes directly to the files etc.
  >
  > I only need web navigation start and end, and download complete as a
  > start.
  >
  > If there was a way I could easily add events, or something that would be
  > good but I'd like a list for beginners I could import.
  >
  > Over those though, I did notice and turn on the extra privacy
protection,
  > I have left active the unwanted software protection but I heard from
some
  > that this can cause problems.
  >
  > I also read the article about accessibility services and how they can be
  > misused.
  >
  > It does say if you have a compatible jaws or nvda active on your system
  > that you should leave this active.
  >
  > This is interesting, dolphin stuff is not on this list it makes me
wander,
  > while I do use dolphin stuff myself for things their web stuff is only
for
  > ie and ie 6-8 mainly.
  >
  > Still its an observation only.
  >
  > I must say off the bat what I really like about firefox are the easy
  > option layouts, I just wish there was a way to extend them to well have
  > extras for addons rather than mucking about with the manager.
  >
  > I do like the fact you can have arrow navigation on.
  >
  > I did get noscript revived but when I hit a site with scripts on it
never
  > actually notified me at all.
  >
  > I guess I have to fiddle with it, I do hope thatnoscript does go out and
  > get released.
  >
  > Today is the 14th in nz and tomorrow it will be 14th in us and so, I am
  > probably going to have to keep firefox 57 loaded though I am tempted to
  > drop back to 56.02 for now and get my sounds back.
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >










Re: that dll message that I was geting with nvda

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Dynamic Link Library. Its code that contains windows program parts. They have what are called entry points, they do things to data and then return the modified data to whatever called it.

Hence the term Dynamic, as they do stuff depending on other stuff, Link, ie you have them as part of code linked together, and Library as most of the time the code block has many of the code routines in it each with known entry points to do specific things.
That is basically it. The problems start when something assumes this library will do something it fails to do as its out of date or changed or corrupted, or is not registered with the windows system, which many need to be for security reasons otherwise any old hacker could shove things in and play havoc with the system.
Brian
Apologies for the very basic description.


bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sakina" <sakina.gable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] that dll message that I was geting with nvda


Please pardon me for my ignorance. What does dll stand for?
With many regards Sakina
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Wolf
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 3:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] that dll message that I was geting with nvda

Hello I can confirm at least on my machine that when ever I install
jaws2018 I get that dll message that I was getting before when launching
nvda

I restored my machine to before I installed jaws2018 so all is ok but
thought that I would let the list know

I don't know what is going on but at this point I can't run jaws2018
with out it breaking nvda







Re: nvda tickets

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think I tried to find that once before, but maybe its working now, so why on earth would one not want this to occur?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda tickets


Apparently, according to this page, you can get e-mails for your own
activity now Brian:
https://github.com/blog/2203-email-updates-about-your-own-activity

If you go to: https://github.com/settings/notifications you can set what
notifications you receive and how, and one of the checkboxes is for
"Include your own updates", which is unchecked by default. If you check
that, it sounds like it should do exactly what you want.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 7:27 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

I think the point he is raising here is the one I've raised many many
times and been ignored.
That is, really there should be a setting in there so even your own
messages get sent to the email list it uses so you can follow a thread
correctly maybe months later on.
In my view this is a serious issue with gather or its the most well hidden
checbox on the web.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <
quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda tickets


It looks like you've done everything correct. I can see your issue here:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/7754.

It looks like no-one has commented on it or anything yet, so you likely
won't have received any e-mail about it yet.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Governor staten <govsta@gmail.com>
wrote:

I posted a ticket on the topic of Zoom yesterday. Do we see emails
corresponding to our own tickets before someone comments on them? I'm
just
curious. If I've done something wrong, I'd like to know. I filled it out
and then pressed the submit button.



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: can't use the letter K to get from link to link

Gene
 

After I sent my message yesterday, you said the problem doesn't occur in Edge.  Before you do anything else, test to see if this is a problem specifically and only in Internet Explorer.  You said it doesn't occur in Edge.  Try Firefox or Chrome and see if the problem is present.  If it isn't, then this is evidently a problem with Internet Explorer being corrupted in some way.  At that point, you can ask here about how to repair and/or reinstall Internet Explorer and see if either solution helps.   
If you can't solve the problem in either of those two ways, and if it only affects Internet Explorer, then, with Chrome and Firefox as options and Edge becoming increasingly accessible and Internet Explorer becoming increasingly old, the next question is whether it's worth solving the problem.  People may have other solutions to try but a reset, or whatever the correct term of Windows is may be something to try.  I don't know if you should do the reset that removes everything or the one that keeps your files and programs on the machine. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link

Hi, Gene,

 

I think he did a clean install of windows 10 so I lost all my files except for the music I have on my external hard drive.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 8:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link

 

What did you have repaired on the computer?  Did the tech do anything other than repair just what you asked?  Did he update anything or do any other work?

 

Also, and not necessarily related to the question, you might be able to reset, I'm not sure what the correct term is in Windows 10, Windows and tell the reset to leave all your programs.  But that would need discussion by others  because I don't know enough about that option to do more than suggest it as a possibility.

 

Gene

----- Original Message ------

Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link

 

That's the weirdest thing I've ever encountered. Wish I knew how to solve it.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 7:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link

 

Somehow, you're numlock then is getting turned on.

 

That's really weird!

---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:39 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link

 

The weird thing is that it happens in internet explorer. Not only that but if I'm trying to read a title bar in IE, I get "0 T" instead of the insert key. I don't have that problem in microsoft edge.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 6:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link

 

Aa, sounds like somehow your NVDA key got unmapped from the insert key. Go into the NVDA menu, then preferences, general, and make sure that the NVDA modifier for insert is checked. If you wind up having to check it, then be sure to save your configuration afterwards with NVDA+CTRL+C.

---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 5:27 PM

Subject: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link

 

Hi, everyone,

 

Recently I had to have my computer repaired. Yesterday I brought it home from the shop but found that now I can't get to the links list with NVDA f-7 or the letter K. Whoever repaired my computer must have changed some settings on it. I have the proper boxes checked but don't know why this isn't working. Here is what I was trying to do. I wanted to go to the Gmail site to find out if I had messages in my spam folder that aren't spam. When I hit K to go from link to link, all I get is K and nothing else. When I hit NVDA f-7 to go to the links list, I get a message asking if I want to turn on caret browsing. What could bee causing this?

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Rosemarie  


Re: Firefox 57 Update: My Analysis

Kwork
 

Ron, very interesting read here, and thanks for your thoughtful testing with
various sites. While I know others' results will vary, another message right
above yours saying the new update had made their NVDA unusable on it, it
does make for an interesting read.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 7:56 AM
Subject: [nvda] Firefox 57 Update: My Analysis


Hi Group,


Well, it's finally here: the much talked about full release of Firefox
57. I opened Firefox shortly after 7:00 AM Eastern Time USA this
morning and got the update Firefox dialogue. I am now running Firefox 57.0.


Here are some of the conditions under which I am running Firefox 57.0
full release.

Windows 10 latest update version 17.09

8 core 64 bit Intel composite machine

12 GB RAM 13.8 GB Virtual memory.

Firefox 32 bit version.


Here is my basic analysis.


I first tried a run of the mill web page--an old still functional local
ISP that offers dial-up service and has low graphics and is not very
cluttered: The Blue Moon Internet System: http://www.bluemoon.net. The
navigation and overall performance was normal--I did not notice anything
different from earlier versions of Firefox.


Being somewhat encouraged, I next visited one of my favorite sites
espn.com and one of its sub pages for NFL articles:
https://espn.com/nfl. This site is fairly cluttered but usually very
simple to navigate. Again, I had no real issues. Navigational keys,
automatic reading and other basics operated normally.


I then got a little bolder. I visited the CNN website:
https://cnn.com. It might have taken a little longer time to load than
normal, but I don't visit that site very often, so I am really not
sure. It seemed relatively normal with perhaps a small lag--2 or 3
seconds maybe. Once the page loaded, I had no real issues. I was able
to click on various section: world, USA, sports, breaking news, ETC. I
chose to read the article about the coup in Zimbabwe--that deposed long
time and ailing President Robert Magobbi. Everything seemed to work
normally.


I then got real brave and visited the Yahoo sports page:
https://sports.yahoo.com. This site hasn't worked very well for years.
The page refreshes quite often--about every 30 seconds to a minute--even
moreso during active sports events. This site also has the habbit of
moving to the search field and activating forms/edit mode with every
page load. All these aspects of this page were evident with Firefox 57,
but they weren't any worse than with earlier versions of Firefox. I
really wish Yahoo would fix these pages. Even using JAWS 17, the
suppress web page refreshes hasn't worked in years and still
doesn't--but I digress.


I then visited various live streaming pages which had accessible
embedded players: Democracy Now: https://democracynow.org and AM 740
Toronto: https://zoomerradio.ca. Both these sites read normally and the
embedded players showed buttons and I could activate, play, pause and
control volumes as normal. There were no significant issues.


Finally, it has been reported that the downloads window does not read in
Firefox 57. I tried downloading a small fie of 11 MB in size from the
file storage site Send Space: https://www.sendspace.com. The download
window showed up normally and I saw the progress as usual. Again, there
was no significant difference from ealrier versions of Firefox.


Conclusion and possible causality:


I see very little difference using Firefox 57 with my current system.
There may be a bit of sluggishness on sum pages, but not very much. The
causes I am going to site are simply educated guesses--nothing more.
You will see that I am using the 32 bit version of Firefox. I believe
there is a 64 bit, but I have lways been warned off from using this
version. I have always used a 32 bit version and had very good
results. Maybe if some people are using the 64 bit version on a 64 bit
system, that could cause issue. In addition, my system is a reasonably
fast system. With 8 core and a lot of RAM and virtual memory, it is a
real speed demon. The system boots in about 25 seconds from a cold
boot. Programs launch rapidly and seldom lock up. Although Gene Asner
might bite me (we've had debates over fast VS slow systems and how they
affect other programs) I am wondering if my fast system mitigates issues
with Firefox sluggishness and bad performance that others are having.
(sorry Gene only kidding!) Again, this is simply an educated guess, but
there must be some intrinsic issue on more than a few systems running
Firefox 57 that are causing all these negative reports that I am
receiving on this and other mailing lists for the blind.


Hopefully, this analysis will induce others to give Firefox 57 a try and
allay some of the fear associated with it's installation.



--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: nvda and chrome reader mode

Gene
 

Keep in mind that that is one person's experience and you need a good sample of experiences to generalize.  I see no difference in download speeds nor in items opening.  That , too, is one person's experience and neither report taken together or singly, is anything like a sample on which to draw conclusions.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda and chrome reader mode

Yes!

I have been using Chrome for two years, and I have always had all good things to say about it.

It is so fast, that is what I could not believe when I starting using it.

Downloads go almost twice as fast, and I can open web sites much faster.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 3:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda and chrome reader mode

 

Hi,

 

I’ve liked Chrome a lot better for a long while, and it’s faster too.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: 13 November 2017 23:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda and chrome reader mode

 

hi

If you use chrome. then you want an addon or extension obtained from chrome webstore, called

murcury reader.

and you activate it by pressing alt grave accent, sometimes called single quote. to the left of number 1 on the top number row. this brings up a new window with a close murcury reader at the top and the article nicely formatted without links and ads and video clutter is down below. I am really starting to like chrome more than I like firefox right now. It's really fast and the free murcury reader addon lets me read articles without clutter. murcury reader also has a button that lets you send any web article directly to an amazon kindle if you have one. It's quite nice. now if we get NVDA working good in chrome with google docs sheets and slides that would be good.

 

Josh

 

-- 
sent with mozilla thunderbird

 


firefox 57 not working / desperate

Richard Kuzma
 

Good morning,

I see you guys have firefox 57 working, mine is not

It installed and updated and now says something about information is not displayable in tab view and  to update screen reader and so on.

I tried with nvda and jaws,

Using windows seven, can someone help

Thanks

 


Re: nvda and chrome reader mode

Gene
 

Do you know that firefox has this feature built in? 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 5:38 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda and chrome reader mode

hi

If you use chrome. then you want an addon or extension obtained from chrome webstore, called

murcury reader.

and you activate it by pressing alt grave accent, sometimes called single quote. to the left of number 1 on the top number row. this brings up a new window with a close murcury reader at the top and the article nicely formatted without links and ads and video clutter is down below. I am really starting to like chrome more than I like firefox right now. It's really fast and the free murcury reader addon lets me read articles without clutter. murcury reader also has a button that lets you send any web article directly to an amazon kindle if you have one. It's quite nice. now if we get NVDA working good in chrome with google docs sheets and slides that would be good.


Josh


-- 
sent with mozilla thunderbird


Re: Firefox 57 Update: My Analysis

 

You have a beast of a machine. It runs well enough on mine. Due to processor in my netbook, there is probably more lag than should exist.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 15, 2017, at 9:56 AM, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Hi Group,


Well, it's finally here: the much talked about full release of Firefox 57. I opened Firefox shortly after 7:00 AM Eastern Time USA this morning and got the update Firefox dialogue. I am now running Firefox 57.0.


Here are some of the conditions under which I am running Firefox 57.0 full release.

Windows 10 latest update version 17.09

8 core 64 bit Intel composite machine

12 GB RAM 13.8 GB Virtual memory.

Firefox 32 bit version.


Here is my basic analysis.


I first tried a run of the mill web page--an old still functional local ISP that offers dial-up service and has low graphics and is not very cluttered: The Blue Moon Internet System: http://www.bluemoon.net. The navigation and overall performance was normal--I did not notice anything different from earlier versions of Firefox.


Being somewhat encouraged, I next visited one of my favorite sites espn.com and one of its sub pages for NFL articles: https://espn.com/nfl. This site is fairly cluttered but usually very simple to navigate. Again, I had no real issues. Navigational keys, automatic reading and other basics operated normally.


I then got a little bolder. I visited the CNN website: https://cnn.com. It might have taken a little longer time to load than normal, but I don't visit that site very often, so I am really not sure. It seemed relatively normal with perhaps a small lag--2 or 3 seconds maybe. Once the page loaded, I had no real issues. I was able to click on various section: world, USA, sports, breaking news, ETC. I chose to read the article about the coup in Zimbabwe--that deposed long time and ailing President Robert Magobbi. Everything seemed to work normally.


I then got real brave and visited the Yahoo sports page: https://sports.yahoo.com. This site hasn't worked very well for years. The page refreshes quite often--about every 30 seconds to a minute--even moreso during active sports events. This site also has the habbit of moving to the search field and activating forms/edit mode with every page load. All these aspects of this page were evident with Firefox 57, but they weren't any worse than with earlier versions of Firefox. I really wish Yahoo would fix these pages. Even using JAWS 17, the suppress web page refreshes hasn't worked in years and still doesn't--but I digress.


I then visited various live streaming pages which had accessible embedded players: Democracy Now: https://democracynow.org and AM 740 Toronto: https://zoomerradio.ca. Both these sites read normally and the embedded players showed buttons and I could activate, play, pause and control volumes as normal. There were no significant issues.


Finally, it has been reported that the downloads window does not read in Firefox 57. I tried downloading a small fie of 11 MB in size from the file storage site Send Space: https://www.sendspace.com. The download window showed up normally and I saw the progress as usual. Again, there was no significant difference from ealrier versions of Firefox.


Conclusion and possible causality:


I see very little difference using Firefox 57 with my current system. There may be a bit of sluggishness on sum pages, but not very much. The causes I am going to site are simply educated guesses--nothing more. You will see that I am using the 32 bit version of Firefox. I believe there is a 64 bit, but I have lways been warned off from using this version. I have always used a 32 bit version and had very good results. Maybe if some people are using the 64 bit version on a 64 bit system, that could cause issue. In addition, my system is a reasonably fast system. With 8 core and a lot of RAM and virtual memory, it is a real speed demon. The system boots in about 25 seconds from a cold boot. Programs launch rapidly and seldom lock up. Although Gene Asner might bite me (we've had debates over fast VS slow systems and how they affect other programs) I am wondering if my fast system mitigates issues with Firefox sluggishness and bad performance that others are having. (sorry Gene only kidding!) Again, this is simply an educated guess, but there must be some intrinsic issue on more than a few systems running Firefox 57 that are causing all these negative reports that I am receiving on this and other mailing lists for the blind.


Hopefully, this analysis will induce others to give Firefox 57 a try and allay some of the fear associated with it's installation.



--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




Firefox 57 Update: My Analysis

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,


Well, it's finally here: the much talked about full release of Firefox 57.  I opened Firefox shortly after 7:00 AM Eastern Time USA this morning and got the update Firefox dialogue.  I am now running Firefox 57.0.


Here are some of the conditions under which I am running Firefox 57.0 full release.

Windows 10 latest update version 17.09

8 core 64 bit Intel composite machine

12 GB RAM 13.8 GB Virtual memory.

Firefox 32 bit version.


Here is my basic analysis.


I first tried a run of the mill web page--an old still functional local ISP that offers dial-up service and has low graphics and is not very cluttered: The Blue Moon Internet System: http://www.bluemoon.net.  The navigation and overall performance was normal--I did not notice anything different from earlier versions of Firefox.


Being somewhat encouraged, I next visited one of my favorite sites espn.com and one of its sub pages for NFL articles: https://espn.com/nfl.  This site is fairly cluttered but usually very simple to navigate.  Again, I had no real issues. Navigational keys, automatic reading and other basics operated normally.


I then got a little bolder.  I visited the CNN website: https://cnn.com.  It might have taken a little longer time to load than normal, but I don't visit that site very often, so I am really not sure.  It seemed relatively normal with perhaps a small lag--2 or 3 seconds maybe.  Once the page loaded, I had no real issues.  I was able to click on various section: world, USA, sports, breaking news, ETC.  I chose to read the article about the coup in Zimbabwe--that deposed long time and ailing President Robert Magobbi.  Everything seemed to work normally.


I then got real brave and visited the Yahoo sports page: https://sports.yahoo.com.  This site hasn't worked very well for years.  The page refreshes quite often--about every 30 seconds to a minute--even moreso during active sports events.  This site also has the habbit of moving to the search field and activating forms/edit mode with every page load.  All these aspects of this page were evident with Firefox 57, but they weren't any worse than with earlier versions of Firefox.  I really wish Yahoo would fix these pages.  Even using JAWS 17, the suppress web page refreshes hasn't worked in years and still doesn't--but I digress.


I then visited various live streaming pages which had accessible embedded players: Democracy Now: https://democracynow.org and AM 740 Toronto: https://zoomerradio.ca.  Both these sites read normally and the embedded players showed buttons and I could activate, play, pause and control volumes as normal.  There were no significant issues.


Finally, it has been reported that the downloads window does not read in Firefox 57.  I tried downloading a small fie of 11 MB in size from the file storage site Send Space: https://www.sendspace.com.  The download window showed up normally and I saw the progress as usual.  Again, there was no significant difference from ealrier versions of Firefox.


Conclusion and possible causality:


I see very little difference using Firefox 57 with my current system. There may be a bit of sluggishness on sum pages, but not very much.  The causes I am going to site are simply educated guesses--nothing more.  You will see that I am using the 32 bit version of Firefox.  I believe there is a 64 bit, but I have lways been warned off from using this version.  I have always used a 32 bit version and had very good results.  Maybe if some people are using the 64 bit version on a 64 bit system, that could cause issue.  In addition, my system is a reasonably fast system. With 8 core and a lot of RAM and virtual memory, it is a real speed demon.  The system boots in about 25 seconds from a cold boot. Programs launch rapidly and seldom lock up.  Although Gene Asner might bite me (we've had debates over fast VS slow systems and how they affect other programs) I am wondering if my fast system mitigates issues with Firefox sluggishness and bad performance that others are having.  (sorry Gene only kidding!) Again, this is simply an educated guess, but there must be some intrinsic issue on more than a few systems running Firefox 57 that are causing all these negative reports that I am receiving on this and other mailing lists for the blind.


Hopefully, this analysis will induce others to give Firefox 57 a try and allay some of the fear associated with it's installation.



--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


firefox updating and becoming unusable

Richard Kuzma
 

Can someone tell me what just happened.

I opened firefox and it says is updating to latest version and it updated.

Now it does not work with nvda or even jaws.

Please help.

Thanks

 


Re: Fw: [Nvda-devel] This that and the other

 

To your third question, the originator of that thread has changed from using Firefox as his main browser to Chrome.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 15, 2017, at 3:46 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

1. I notice that the list is playing me up again, and older emails are coming in after the replies. I am thus feeling a little like Dr who in a time warp, so sorry if this makes some of my messages here a bit strange.
2. Firefox. So are we saying then, that the latest beta of 57 can be downloaded and installed on a windows 7 machine and the only casualty is going to be navigational sounds and the need to reload a new version of ublock origin?


Yes or no.
I ask as twice I tried recent versions and each time the32 bit version did not even manage to go into browse or focus mode just saying unknown whatever it did. However reload anything prior and it is back working albeit with trashed add ons. I'm now on 52 esr.
3. I can see lots of things in this list with Firefox is now Chrome but have not yet managed to find the first post so what does this refer to exactly?



Brian

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Re: Unveiling Braille Me - World's Most Affordable Smart Braille Display

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

The press release says six dots.

Best,

Erik

On November 14, 2017 10:06:43 PM "Angelo Sonnesso" <asonnesso@gmail.com> wrote:

There are 6 Braille keys, but are there only 6 dots on the Braille Me?.
The Braille Lite had 6 Braille keys, but it did have 8 Braille dots.

73 N2DYN Angelo

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 4:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Unveiling Braille Me - World's Most Affordable Smart Braille Display

Hi,

Ah I am with you now, cursor tracking would be essential for me too.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: 14 November 2017 15:22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Unveiling Braille Me - World's Most Affordable Smart Braille Display

Absolutely it does. But it doesn't have cursor tracking. At least I don't see how it can, since there are only six dots. DotsSeven and eight blink to show the position of the cursor in standard 8 dot Braille configurations. I could be totally wrong about this of course. Perhaps the entire letter blinks to show the position of the cursor. I feel pretty confident, but I suppose it was not safe to speculate without having seen the device in operation.


On November 14, 2017 10:12:33 AM "Angelo Sonnesso" <asonnesso@gmail.com> wrote:

It does have cursor routing buttons.

73 N2DYN Angelo

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 8:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Unveiling Braille Me - World's Most Affordable Smart Braille Display

I think you have to look at it like this. When a Perkins brailler costs $800, and a refreshable braille display costs $400, the Braille display becomes instantly attractive in learning environments.

Cursor tracking would be nice, but six dots is all you need to start teaching people how to use the code. We streamlined learning of Braille into technology. We substantially reduce paper waste. We slash both the upfront and long-term cost, and we make Braille relevant to Consumers who would otherwise wonder why they are taking the time to learn it.

For myself, I really need 8 dot Computer Braille, and cursor tracking in my classes. So, this device will not be great for me; however, I think it's great that one of these is actually going to hit the market. I hope when they start recovering some of their R&D costs, they will expand the size, add the cursor tracking feature is, and make it a little bit more relevant to Advanced Braille users.


On November 14, 2017 7:29:01 AM "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk> wrote:

Hi,

Yeah eight dots isn't there, which makes it a bit half-baked, but it will be nice to have a cheaper option.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 14 November 2017 09:16
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Unveiling Braille Me - World's Most Affordable Smart Braille Display

Is this going to be another one like the last el cheapo one that everyone is still waiting to get?

Wee only six dots, I thought 8 was needed for computer Braille to allow info like cursor position etc.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Cristóbal" <crismunoz54@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Unveiling Braille Me - World's Most Affordable Smart Braille Display


It literally says $399.00 in the original email message.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ann Byrne
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 5:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Unveiling Braille Me - World's Most Affordable
Smart Braille Display

How affordable is it???
At 07:17 AM 11/13/2017, you wrote:
Hi Josh,
I had been contacted by Shyam from Innovision a couple months ago with
regards to how adding support for a new Braille display driver works
in the case of NVDA. I had redirected Shyam to Jamie or Reef by
providing their e-mail addresses at that point in time. I am unaware
of whether or not he actually followed up with an NV Access staff
member, but what I can safely say is that supporting NVDA was very
much on their minds while developing this affordable Braille display.
Thanks.

On 11/13/17, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@gmail.com> wrote:
will this display work with NVDA also?




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Unveiling Braille Me - World's Most Affordable Smart
Braille
Display
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 03:10:09 -0800
From: Innovision <shyam@innovisiontech.co>
To: joshknnd1982@gmail.com



Greetings from Innovision!
This email is in reply to the Pre-order interest survey that you or
a representative from your firm submitted (link -
https://tinyurl.com/BrailleMe-Survey
<https://innovisiontech-dot-yamm-track.appspot.com/Redirect?ukey=1faNF
NvnKA_
4Ij1SFgAV4lloCizIP-yQHxS_P4iDZetA-0&key=YAMMID-71407346&link=https%3A%
2F%2Ft
inyurl.com%2FBrailleMe-Survey>).


Thank you for showing your interest in Innovision
(www.innovisiontech.co
<https://innovisiontech-dot-yamm-track.appspot.com/Redirect?ukey=1faN
F
NvnKA_4Ij1SFgAV4lloCizIP-yQHxS_P4iDZetA-0&key=YAMMID-71407346&link=ht
t
p%3A%2F%2Fwww.innovisiontech.co%2F>)

and our product, BrailleMe - a Smart Braille Display for the
visually impaired community.

I am excited to inform you that we are launching Braille Me,
world's most affordable smart braille display at USD 399/- on the
4th of January celebrating the World Braille Day. Let me give you
an overview of Braille Me.

About Braille Me -

Ever Since Louis Braille invented the wonderful script of Braille,
it has been adopted all across the globe empowering millions of
individuals. Today, after 200 years we are on the verge of a
revolution in Braille. Braille Me, is built to bring digital
braille to everyone immaterial of their geographical, economic or
lingual
background.

It has a six-dot 20-cell braille display, a Perkins-style keypad,
cursor routing buttons and few navigation keys. It has
capabilities to work as a stand-alone editor and also connect to
smartphones and computers via Bluetooth and USB. It is a balanced
device with core features of a complex notetaker while having the
simplicity of a braille
display.

Braille Me has become possible due to two breakthroughs in
Affordability and multi-language. Braille Me is designed with our
patented Braille cell technology which makes the device
cost-effective by an order of magnitude compared to existing
products and supports more than 40 languages spanning all across
the
globe.

To know more about Braille Me please check our demonstration video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz1cUZcf-1A
<https://innovisiontech-dot-yamm-track.appspot.com/Redirect?ukey=1faN
F
NvnKA_4Ij1SFgAV4lloCizIP-yQHxS_P4iDZetA-0&key=YAMMID-71407346&link=ht
t ps%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DFz1cUZcf-1A>

Also check out our facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/InnovisionTechnologies/
<https://innovisiontech-dot-yamm-track.appspot.com/Redirect?ukey=1faN
F
NvnKA_4Ij1SFgAV4lloCizIP-yQHxS_P4iDZetA-0&key=YAMMID-71407346&link=ht
t ps%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FInnovisionTechnologies%2F>

Reaching out:

We are eager to serve you and look forward to engaging with you.
Currently, we are looking for partners who can help us in the
distribution and training in your state/country. Please let us know
if you are part of or are in touch with any Institute for Visually
impaired, commercial distributors of disability aids or NGOs
working in your area.
Your help in identifying key partners would go a long way in
expediting distribution of Braille Me in your locality.

We hope you would join us in this effort to bring digital braille
to every student and professional in need.
In case you have any queries, please feel free to reach out to our
team at customercare@innovisiontech.co
<mailto:info@innovisiontech.co> We look forward to hearing from you.
--
Warm Regards
Shyam Shah
CEO & Co-founder
INNOVISION
www.innovisiontech.co
<https://innovisiontech-dot-yamm-track.appspot.com/Redirect?ukey=1faN
F
NvnKA_4Ij1SFgAV4lloCizIP-yQHxS_P4iDZetA-0&key=YAMMID-71407346&link=ht
t
p%3A%2F%2Fwww.innovisiontech.co%2F>



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Debug JavaScript for Developer

Alessandro Albano
 

Hi all,

I need to work, to debug the javascript code of some websites, add breackpoint and inspect a variable or obj.

I've tried embedded Google Developer Tools in Chrome, Firefox and Internet Explorer integrated ones.

All these tools are not accessible, or poorly  (little) accessible with all screen reader.

Do you have any solutions? Experiences?

Thank you!

-- 
Alessandro