Date   

Re: that dll message that I was geting with nvda

Sakina
 

Thank you always my friend Brian for the explanation.
Regards always
Sakina

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 4:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] that dll message that I was geting with nvda

Dynamic Link Library. Its code that contains windows program parts. They
have what are called entry points, they do things to data and then return
the modified data to whatever called it.

Hence the term Dynamic, as they do stuff depending on other stuff, Link, ie
you have them as part of code linked together, and Library as most of the
time the code block has many of the code routines in it each with known
entry points to do specific things.
That is basically it. The problems start when something assumes this
library will do something it fails to do as its out of date or changed or
corrupted, or is not registered with the windows system, which many need to
be for security reasons otherwise any old hacker could shove things in and
play havoc with the system.
Brian
Apologies for the very basic description.


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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sakina" <sakina.gable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] that dll message that I was geting with nvda


Please pardon me for my ignorance. What does dll stand for?
With many regards Sakina
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The
Wolf
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 3:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] that dll message that I was geting with nvda

Hello I can confirm at least on my machine that when ever I install
jaws2018 I get that dll message that I was getting before when launching
nvda

I restored my machine to before I installed jaws2018 so all is ok but
thought that I would let the list know

I don't know what is going on but at this point I can't run jaws2018
with out it breaking nvda








Re: Fw: [Nvda-devel] This that and the other

 

Well navigational sounds is gone better privacy and classic theme restorer, ublock, https everywhere, privacy badger those are up.

Noscript is gone but being upgraded by its makers and should be out in the next week or 2.

Everything else is fine unless you use bt sync service, all the time that can be a bit slow running May have to doodle about with things.

Then again I can disable firefox bits I shouldn't from ccleaner so I could disable multiprocesses and see what it does.

I could also limit ff to a couple cpus while doing sync but who knows.

Its really to complex for that.

I think for now I will use ie for the sync box, later on, if there is a way I can have a bare bones brouser with no real security loaded just to access local connections that may be another option.

It doesn't need to much security as all the address I access that would be local ones, the router, the printer and the bt sync all of which are network only devices.

On 15/11/2017 9:46 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
1. I notice that the list is playing me up again, and older emails are coming in after the replies. I am thus feeling a little like Dr who in a time warp, so sorry if this makes some of my messages here a bit strange.
2. Firefox. So are we saying then, that the latest beta of 57 can be downloaded and installed on a windows 7 machine and the only casualty is going to be navigational sounds and the need to reload a new version of ublock origin?


Yes or no.
I ask as twice I tried recent versions and each time the32 bit version did not even manage to go into browse or focus mode just saying  unknown whatever it did. However reload anything prior and it is back working albeit with trashed add ons. I'm now on 52 esr.
3. I can see lots of things in this list with  Firefox is now Chrome but have not yet managed to find the first post so what does this refer to exactly?



Brian

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Re: the new firefox quanttum

 

To be honest brian, if it were more than the options screens I would go back to 56.02 and not update it.

I still don't understand why all this upheaval for the users, I had all my addons running and ff just worked.

Its a lot faster certainly a bit more faster than chrome and I like layouts of some pages like twitter a bit better than chrome.

Ofcause where chrome was an issue for me was security dialogs and since I interact with these quite a lot in my admin work its sort of a show stopper for me if it does it.

As for 56, The fact is if I need to I can go back to any version of ff I have.

At least till next year when noscript dies off for the older versions.

Noscript will be back sooner or later maybe this week or next, but point is everything else is, I don't have the entire load of sounds for chrome I did have but I just need the download one and I have that and well what can I say, I still do like the interface for ff even though ftp and download lists don't focus right.

On 15/11/2017 9:09 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I still cannot get 57 to actually work at all here, so I'm avoiding it. I don't have time to fiddle and nothing really should need to be altered to get it to work albeit slower or whatever. There are obviously issues with some systems as yet unexplained and until they are resolved its not worth my time attempting to figure it out, there are cleverer people than I and I have nearly a year of 52 updates to let them play with their new toy.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott VanDeWalle" <scottvandewalle2@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:43 PM
Subject: [nvda] the new firefox quanttum


Hello all.

I just installed the new firefox.
The only thing wrong with it as far as I’m concerned is that it is slower.
So for now I’ll either use google chrome or edge as my default browser.
I’m using the new nightly firefox 58, and it is not much better, as promised it would be.
Just my opinions though.
Have a good da y.

Scott



.


Re: NVDA and GoogleChrome

Chris Mullins
 

I use Chrome and as far as I am aware, the Download folder is where the
downloaded file is placed after activating "Download" on a web page. In
Chrome, when you activate a download, you can either set Chrome to do the
download with or without prompting the user to activate a save button.
This setting can be found in the Crome advanced settings

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris
Shook
Sent: 15 November 2017 16:40
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and GoogleChrome

Hi,
Is there anyway to get downloads to start automatically in GoogleChrome
using NVDA or JAWS?
Right now, after clicking on a file I want to download, I have to go into
the downloads folder and click on the appropriate link.
Thanks in advance.
Chris


Re: firefox what was the fuss exactly?

 

I agree, the world online is as dangerous as the world offline.

The only difference is it never closes, and its always day, never sleeps.

Then again as it is in the real world even in parts of the globe where people do sleep at night, and yes in europe there are places where people are always up, even in places where people do regularly sleep someone is always up, and in some cases normal people are still up at nights.

For me bar resilio sync server, firefox has been as fast as it ever was.

And the layout of some pages is nicer than chrome.

I have gotten used to a download sound addon I use and don't need anything else.

So the biggest gripe for me is that forms in addon options do not work I also find the options page a bit slow to navigate and do anything in.

But as long as I don't have to adjust settings of any sort then its not going to be an issue.

On 15/11/2017 9:03 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Its no less secure today than yesterday. There are people out there who will find a way to hack into everything. The game everyone is playing to try to close every conceivable loop hole or way to exploit windows and other systems  will carry on no matter what of course.
Unfortunately if correct checks ad balances were carried out in the code to see if it really is a screenreader then why worry? In my view some of the dirty ways screenreaders have to use to get proper access to the data point toward those designing APIs for screenreader use as poor at their job. No hooking in and fiddling should be needed if they knew what we needed access to in a secure way.Sadly the world does not revolve around minority users and so we get the  last dregs of the cup of tea. Protecting idiots from their own bad practices is more important. users need to actually learn to be more careful and stop trying to pretend the world on line is more safe than off. There are some areas of town I'd not go after dark, and I do not expect a line of police there to stop me being foolish enough to do it.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox what was the fuss exactly?


Well if it comes to that, then as a blind person I will have to use an unsecured brouser.

Firefox 56 with noscript can be secure enough its a pitty that it will be not secure but well.

Lets hope that both makers and access tech upgrades to the new technologies and can use them.

Chrome is allready using web extentions the only issue I have with chrome are some dialogs for their security screens.

I also don't care for the multiple clickables meaning I have to just not do anything about that.




On 15/11/2017 7:19 a.m., Gene wrote:
It isn't just a question of security and I don't know enough about the technical aspects of security to comment on that regarding screen-readers.

But the statement from Mozilla, reproduced in Marco's Accessibility Blog, makes it clear that many changes are to deal efficiently with web pages that are increasingly interactive and complex.  An important reason changes are being made regarding accessibility is because of the changes in web page design that have and are occurring as the Internet takes on more complex functions.  Indeed, it looks to me as though Chrome will have to do the same sorts of things at some point and that one reason Edge was inaccessible after its release is because these sorts of changes are already built into the browser, although someone who knows more than my very slight bit of reading on the subject I did may correct or modify what I'm saying.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 12:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox what was the fuss exactly?


Well for security reasons you may have to but to be honest, I agree, the
new firefox engine secure as it is means a lot of stuff we are used to
is gone and a few more niggles.

I'd actually prefur if they just kept 56.x secured as it is.

Chrome was the quickest way for me to stay secure and in business.

However if I didn't care firefox 56 would have been what I do.

Ofcause if I could fine a way without doodling with complex addons to
make my ff 52 broadcast a firefox 56 or higher on some sites then I'd
have no issue with it.

I still prefur firefox to chrome for its ease of use but they are going
to make it newer so.

To be honest if mozilla do what they say they are doing I do hope
something comes up next year, if firefox gets better then maybe I switch
back to firefox.




On 14/11/2017 10:11 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Well the beta I tried simply refused to say anything but unknown on
any page, though most of the menus still worked.

I'm not inclined to update since I use the sound, particularly the one
when a page has fully loaded and the one that tells me a link has in
fact activated and of course download complete


I have seen elsewhere where people think these sounds are pointless. I
dispute this as everyone is different and I really only use browsers
where I can actually hear that things are going on. for example I've
always noticed that screenreaders sometimes do not figure out the page
has loaded, but navigational sounds does and hence allows me to re
focus the screenreader.
Also I would not know if a download had completed if the download pane
was hidden without a sound.
Some links click but clickables do not so sometimes you can figure out
what is which sort of link on a page this way. In a way it would be
even better if button link and clickable had different sounds to save
one getting confused.

I think the list of things some of us want in a browser is obviously
going to be different to what the sighted want, so one will really
need somebody at Mozilla etc to write blind specific add ons for a
browser.
Its far easier when trying to teach somebody how to use a browser to
be able to say, if you do not hear x then its not worked.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 6:42 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox what was the fuss exactly?


Hi.

Well While brousing firefox ftp today I decided to try firefox 57 as
it was on releases today.

What exactly was the fuss?

Firefox interface loads fast, no lag, but I havn't tried big sites
maybe a couple seconds for audiogames forum.

Addons, noscript, aparently this will not work till actual release of
firefox.

Navigational sounds.

I am trying to find a replacement, the author of this said that
because the new interface doesn't allow for registry access one can't
get the list of events to do things with.

I tried 3 of them so far.

Notification sound, noise and download sound.

Download sound has no options or rather any way I can configure it to
suit.

Noise has options but there are no default events set and I tried to
add what I wanted and define its sounds but I can't set values and
going to its website found that while there is a web version all
features are basically not there.

Notification sound is another, but its got no options screen.

Something like noise would be fine if it had an default event list
which just used the windows schemes directly to the files etc.

I only need web navigation start and end, and download complete as a
start.

If there was a way I could easily add events, or something that would
be good but I'd like a list for beginners I could import.

Over those though, I did notice and turn on the extra privacy
protection, I have left active the unwanted software protection but I
heard from some that this can cause problems.

I also read the article about accessibility services and how they can
be misused.

It does say if you have a compatible jaws or nvda active on your
system that you should leave this active.

This is interesting, dolphin stuff is not on this list it makes me
wander, while I do use dolphin stuff myself for things their web
stuff is only for ie and ie 6-8 mainly.

Still its an observation only.

I must say off the bat what I really like about firefox are the easy
option layouts, I just wish there was a way to extend them to well
have extras for addons rather than mucking about with the manager.

I do like the fact you can have arrow navigation on.

I did get noscript revived but when I hit a site with scripts on it
never actually notified me at all.

I guess I have to fiddle with it, I do hope thatnoscript does go out
and get released.

Today is the 14th in nz and tomorrow it will be 14th in us and so, I
am probably going to have to keep firefox 57 loaded though I am
tempted to drop back to 56.02 for now and get my sounds back.






.





.


ccleaner install instructions

 

Hi.

Well it looks like they are trying it again and now its on 64 bit systems to so lets hope we are not hit with more malware.

Here is how I got round avast installing.

start ccleaner, tab once, you will get a ding alt tab out and in, move past customise installer and you will get a message about avast, hit space on that.

press tab, there is a checkbox, hit space.

Now remember after you hit tab again thats gone for good and if you didn''t kill it you will have to hit  the  close button and go back in.

It then should install right.

There is a lot of bad press from sites over theinstalling of malware for previous things some av programs still report the program is having malware in it.

And ofcause being that a supposed security maker has been hit badly its still going on.

They seem to deem it needing to try again.

My vote would to not bother trying to bundle at all.

Rumors out say that avasts chain of supply is not secured right.

For us users it means that while we can still have our cake and eat it we better not be eating half asleep in our chairs.

In other news I reran firefox again, the only time its really slow is when running resilio server but it works otherwise.\


Re: can't use the letter K to get from link to link

Chris Mullins
 

In W10 try alt+shift to cycle through available keyboard language formats.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jacob Kruger
Sent: 15 November 2017 07:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link

 

Really depends on operating system version, and, honestly, it was just a form of guess - if keyboard works fine in other contexts, then it's somewhat unlikely?

 

Stay well

 

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2017/11/15 08:43, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

How do I change that?

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jacob Kruger
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link

 

Makes me think that maybe your input language has been set to some language other than US english, and, so, your keyboard is behaving oddly?

 

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2017/11/15 04:39, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

The weird thing is that it happens in internet explorer. Not only that but if I'm trying to read a title bar in IE, I get "0 T" instead of the insert key. I don't have that problem in microsoft edge.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 6:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link

 

Aa, sounds like somehow your NVDA key got unmapped from the insert key. Go into the NVDA menu, then preferences, general, and make sure that the NVDA modifier for insert is checked. If you wind up having to check it, then be sure to save your configuration afterwards with NVDA+CTRL+C.

---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 5:27 PM

Subject: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link

 

Hi, everyone,

 

Recently I had to have my computer repaired. Yesterday I brought it home from the shop but found that now I can't get to the links list with NVDA f-7 or the letter K. Whoever repaired my computer must have changed some settings on it. I have the proper boxes checked but don't know why this isn't working. Here is what I was trying to do. I wanted to go to the Gmail site to find out if I had messages in my spam folder that aren't spam. When I hit K to go from link to link, all I get is K and nothing else. When I hit NVDA f-7 to go to the links list, I get a message asking if I want to turn on caret browsing. What could bee causing this?

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Rosemarie  

 

 


Re: can't use the letter K to get from link to link

Lino Morales
 

That's weird Rosie Marie. I'm using FF 58 beta 3 and works fine here. If you really wanted to you could use Thunderbird or whatever you use for mail and use IMAP instead of having to go to Gmail to check for spam. Take care.

On 11/14/2017 5:27 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, everyone,

 

Recently I had to have my computer repaired. Yesterday I brought it home from the shop but found that now I can't get to the links list with NVDA f-7 or the letter K. Whoever repaired my computer must have changed some settings on it. I have the proper boxes checked but don't know why this isn't working. Here is what I was trying to do. I wanted to go to the Gmail site to find out if I had messages in my spam folder that aren't spam. When I hit K to go from link to link, all I get is K and nothing else. When I hit NVDA f-7 to go to the links list, I get a message asking if I want to turn on caret browsing. What could bee causing this?

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Rosemarie  


Re: the new firefox quanttum

Lino Morales
 

Yeah Marco Z said you could do that. In his words its "bleeding edge". Have fun.

On 11/14/2017 5:16 PM, Chris wrote:

                                Well I’m using nightly 59.01 and that seems ok

 

So maybe try the later one

 

 

From: Scott VanDeWalle
Sent: 14 November 2017 21:43
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] the new firefox quanttum

 

Hello all.

 

I just installed the new firefox.

The only thing wrong with it as far as I’m concerned is that it is slower.

So for now I’ll either use google chrome or edge as my default browser.

I’m using the new nightly firefox 58, and it is not much better, as promised it would be.

Just my opinions though.

Have a good da y.

 

Scott

 


Re: NVDA and GoogleChrome

 

it usually does it automaticly at least it does fore me.

On 11/15/2017 9:40 AM, Chris Shook wrote:
Hi,
Is there anyway to get downloads to start automatically in GoogleChrome using NVDA or JAWS?
Right now, after clicking on a file I want to download, I have to go into the downloads folder and click on the appropriate link.
Thanks in advance.
Chris



NVDA and GoogleChrome

Chris Shook <chris0309@...>
 

Hi,
Is there anyway to get downloads to start automatically in GoogleChrome using NVDA or JAWS?
Right now, after clicking on a file I want to download, I have to go into the downloads folder and click on the appropriate link.
Thanks in advance.
Chris


Re: can't use the letter K to get from link to link

 

hi gene.
do you mean that there is no difference between activating of
deactivating Always use cursor keys to navigate within web pages?
i activated it, but did not feel any difference and did not understand
what this option actually does.

On 11/15/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
There was another message about outlook html not working either, and one is

forced to wonder if there is a common link here.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link


After I sent my message yesterday, you said the problem doesn't occur in
Edge. Before you do anything else, test to see if this is a problem
specifically and only in Internet Explorer. You said it doesn't occur in
Edge. Try Firefox or Chrome and see if the problem is present. If it
isn't, then this is evidently a problem with Internet Explorer being
corrupted in some way. At that point, you can ask here about how to repair

and/or reinstall Internet Explorer and see if either solution helps.

If you can't solve the problem in either of those two ways, and if it only
affects Internet Explorer, then, with Chrome and Firefox as options and Edge

becoming increasingly accessible and Internet Explorer becoming increasingly

old, the next question is whether it's worth solving the problem. People
may have other solutions to try but a reset, or whatever the correct term of

Windows is may be something to try. I don't know if you should do the reset

that removes everything or the one that keeps your files and programs on the

machine.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link


Hi, Gene,



I think he did a clean install of windows 10 so I lost all my files except
for the music I have on my external hard drive.



Rosemarie







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 8:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link



What did you have repaired on the computer? Did the tech do anything other

than repair just what you asked? Did he update anything or do any other
work?



Also, and not necessarily related to the question, you might be able to
reset, I'm not sure what the correct term is in Windows 10, Windows and tell

the reset to leave all your programs. But that would need discussion by
others because I don't know enough about that option to do more than
suggest it as a possibility.



Gene

----- Original Message ------

From: Rosemarie Chavarria

Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:32 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link



That's the weirdest thing I've ever encountered. Wish I knew how to solve
it.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 7:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link



Somehow, you're numlock then is getting turned on.



That's really weird!

---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries



http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie Chavarria

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:39 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link



The weird thing is that it happens in internet explorer. Not only that but

if I'm trying to read a title bar in IE, I get "0 T" instead of the insert
key. I don't have that problem in microsoft edge.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 6:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link



Aa, sounds like somehow your NVDA key got unmapped from the insert key. Go

into the NVDA menu, then preferences, general, and make sure that the NVDA
modifier for insert is checked. If you wind up having to check it, then be
sure to save your configuration afterwards with NVDA+CTRL+C.

---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries



http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie Chavarria

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 5:27 PM

Subject: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link



Hi, everyone,



Recently I had to have my computer repaired. Yesterday I brought it home

from the shop but found that now I can't get to the links list with NVDA f-7

or the letter K. Whoever repaired my computer must have changed some
settings on it. I have the proper boxes checked but don't know why this
isn't working. Here is what I was trying to do. I wanted to go to the Gmail

site to find out if I had messages in my spam folder that aren't spam. When

I hit K to go from link to link, all I get is K and nothing else. When I hit

NVDA f-7 to go to the links list, I get a message asking if I want to turn
on caret browsing. What could bee causing this?



Thanks for your help in advance.



Rosemarie







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: can't use the letter K to get from link to link

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

There was another message about outlook html not working either, and one is forced to wonder if there is a common link here.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link


After I sent my message yesterday, you said the problem doesn't occur in Edge. Before you do anything else, test to see if this is a problem specifically and only in Internet Explorer. You said it doesn't occur in Edge. Try Firefox or Chrome and see if the problem is present. If it isn't, then this is evidently a problem with Internet Explorer being corrupted in some way. At that point, you can ask here about how to repair and/or reinstall Internet Explorer and see if either solution helps.

If you can't solve the problem in either of those two ways, and if it only affects Internet Explorer, then, with Chrome and Firefox as options and Edge becoming increasingly accessible and Internet Explorer becoming increasingly old, the next question is whether it's worth solving the problem. People may have other solutions to try but a reset, or whatever the correct term of Windows is may be something to try. I don't know if you should do the reset that removes everything or the one that keeps your files and programs on the machine.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link


Hi, Gene,



I think he did a clean install of windows 10 so I lost all my files except for the music I have on my external hard drive.



Rosemarie







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 8:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link



What did you have repaired on the computer? Did the tech do anything other than repair just what you asked? Did he update anything or do any other work?



Also, and not necessarily related to the question, you might be able to reset, I'm not sure what the correct term is in Windows 10, Windows and tell the reset to leave all your programs. But that would need discussion by others because I don't know enough about that option to do more than suggest it as a possibility.



Gene

----- Original Message ------

From: Rosemarie Chavarria

Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:32 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link



That's the weirdest thing I've ever encountered. Wish I knew how to solve it.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 7:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link



Somehow, you're numlock then is getting turned on.



That's really weird!

---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries



http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie Chavarria

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:39 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link



The weird thing is that it happens in internet explorer. Not only that but if I'm trying to read a title bar in IE, I get "0 T" instead of the insert key. I don't have that problem in microsoft edge.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 6:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link



Aa, sounds like somehow your NVDA key got unmapped from the insert key. Go into the NVDA menu, then preferences, general, and make sure that the NVDA modifier for insert is checked. If you wind up having to check it, then be sure to save your configuration afterwards with NVDA+CTRL+C.

---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries



http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575

----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie Chavarria

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 5:27 PM

Subject: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link



Hi, everyone,



Recently I had to have my computer repaired. Yesterday I brought it home from the shop but found that now I can't get to the links list with NVDA f-7 or the letter K. Whoever repaired my computer must have changed some settings on it. I have the proper boxes checked but don't know why this isn't working. Here is what I was trying to do. I wanted to go to the Gmail site to find out if I had messages in my spam folder that aren't spam. When I hit K to go from link to link, all I get is K and nothing else. When I hit NVDA f-7 to go to the links list, I get a message asking if I want to turn on caret browsing. What could bee causing this?



Thanks for your help in advance.



Rosemarie


Re: Firefox 57 Update: My Analysis

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I am of the opinion that insufficient testing has been done and something is stopping it running on our machines when the previous version was fine. If this can be found and add ons found to do what we need fine, but I'm ducking out till the thing is reliably working on all systems. I have 8 gigs of memory on an i5 and really there should not be just a completely unknown screen straight out of the box as the accessibility system we all rely on is still on at the moment, obviously this is not being seen by my windows 7 system so somebody needs to find out what is going on here.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kwork" <istherelife@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 57 Update: My Analysis


Ron, very interesting read here, and thanks for your thoughtful testing with
various sites. While I know others' results will vary, another message right
above yours saying the new update had made their NVDA unusable on it, it
does make for an interesting read.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 7:56 AM
Subject: [nvda] Firefox 57 Update: My Analysis


Hi Group,


Well, it's finally here: the much talked about full release of Firefox
57. I opened Firefox shortly after 7:00 AM Eastern Time USA this
morning and got the update Firefox dialogue. I am now running Firefox 57.0.


Here are some of the conditions under which I am running Firefox 57.0
full release.

Windows 10 latest update version 17.09

8 core 64 bit Intel composite machine

12 GB RAM 13.8 GB Virtual memory.

Firefox 32 bit version.


Here is my basic analysis.


I first tried a run of the mill web page--an old still functional local
ISP that offers dial-up service and has low graphics and is not very
cluttered: The Blue Moon Internet System: http://www.bluemoon.net. The
navigation and overall performance was normal--I did not notice anything
different from earlier versions of Firefox.


Being somewhat encouraged, I next visited one of my favorite sites
espn.com and one of its sub pages for NFL articles:
https://espn.com/nfl. This site is fairly cluttered but usually very
simple to navigate. Again, I had no real issues. Navigational keys,
automatic reading and other basics operated normally.


I then got a little bolder. I visited the CNN website:
https://cnn.com. It might have taken a little longer time to load than
normal, but I don't visit that site very often, so I am really not
sure. It seemed relatively normal with perhaps a small lag--2 or 3
seconds maybe. Once the page loaded, I had no real issues. I was able
to click on various section: world, USA, sports, breaking news, ETC. I
chose to read the article about the coup in Zimbabwe--that deposed long
time and ailing President Robert Magobbi. Everything seemed to work
normally.


I then got real brave and visited the Yahoo sports page:
https://sports.yahoo.com. This site hasn't worked very well for years.
The page refreshes quite often--about every 30 seconds to a minute--even
moreso during active sports events. This site also has the habbit of
moving to the search field and activating forms/edit mode with every
page load. All these aspects of this page were evident with Firefox 57,
but they weren't any worse than with earlier versions of Firefox. I
really wish Yahoo would fix these pages. Even using JAWS 17, the
suppress web page refreshes hasn't worked in years and still
doesn't--but I digress.


I then visited various live streaming pages which had accessible
embedded players: Democracy Now: https://democracynow.org and AM 740
Toronto: https://zoomerradio.ca. Both these sites read normally and the
embedded players showed buttons and I could activate, play, pause and
control volumes as normal. There were no significant issues.


Finally, it has been reported that the downloads window does not read in
Firefox 57. I tried downloading a small fie of 11 MB in size from the
file storage site Send Space: https://www.sendspace.com. The download
window showed up normally and I saw the progress as usual. Again, there
was no significant difference from ealrier versions of Firefox.


Conclusion and possible causality:


I see very little difference using Firefox 57 with my current system.
There may be a bit of sluggishness on sum pages, but not very much. The
causes I am going to site are simply educated guesses--nothing more.
You will see that I am using the 32 bit version of Firefox. I believe
there is a 64 bit, but I have lways been warned off from using this
version. I have always used a 32 bit version and had very good
results. Maybe if some people are using the 64 bit version on a 64 bit
system, that could cause issue. In addition, my system is a reasonably
fast system. With 8 core and a lot of RAM and virtual memory, it is a
real speed demon. The system boots in about 25 seconds from a cold
boot. Programs launch rapidly and seldom lock up. Although Gene Asner
might bite me (we've had debates over fast VS slow systems and how they
affect other programs) I am wondering if my fast system mitigates issues
with Firefox sluggishness and bad performance that others are having.
(sorry Gene only kidding!) Again, this is simply an educated guess, but
there must be some intrinsic issue on more than a few systems running
Firefox 57 that are causing all these negative reports that I am
receiving on this and other mailing lists for the blind.


Hopefully, this analysis will induce others to give Firefox 57 a try and
allay some of the fear associated with it's installation.



--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"







Re: firefox updating and becoming unusable

Richard Kuzma
 

I download version 56 and it is fine now.
Also for anyone;s information
I called freedom scientific and they were aware, I was told they changed the
way their accessibility works with it, but who knows.
I also told firefox not to update before I installed the old version.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 11:13 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox updating and becoming unusable

Thank good ness somebody else has this issue. Everyone else is saying its
marginally slower and only no script and some add ons fail. In my and your
case its just not accessible and we need to discover the reason. I am using
32 bit Firefox and windows 7 64. If this is also you one of these might well

be the reason. I suggest downloading version 52esr and sticking to that
version until the situation is clearer. 57 is a bit of a mess since its half

way to being a completely different browser to 56.
If you read all the Firefox messages here and read some of the nvaccess
recent blogs, or the large item on the Jaws website you will find that this
is a serious issue, more for some than others and all in the name of making
it less hackable but in doing so making it hard for screenreaders to
actually use it at all, at least in its eventual finished state.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Kuzma via Groups.Io" <rmkuzma=aol.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:44 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox updating and becoming unusable


Can someone tell me what just happened.

I opened firefox and it says is updating to latest version and it updated.

Now it does not work with nvda or even jaws.

Please help.

Thanks






Re: firefox 57 not working / desperate

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

No it just says unknown here back on 52 now. Windows 7 64 32 bit ff.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Kuzma via Groups.Io" <rmkuzma=aol.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 3:28 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox 57 not working / desperate


Good morning,
I see you guys have firefox 57 working, mine is not
It installed and updated and now says something about information is not
displayable in tab view and to update screen reader and so on.
I tried with nvda and jaws,
Using windows seven, can someone help
Thanks


Re: Firefox 57 Update: My Analysis

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

No I use the 32 bit with windows 7 64 and nothing but the menus actually works at all.
Same with another person on this list. Can somebody try it with windows 7?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:56 PM
Subject: [nvda] Firefox 57 Update: My Analysis


Hi Group,


Well, it's finally here: the much talked about full release of Firefox 57. I opened Firefox shortly after 7:00 AM Eastern Time USA this morning and got the update Firefox dialogue. I am now running Firefox 57.0.


Here are some of the conditions under which I am running Firefox 57.0 full release.

Windows 10 latest update version 17.09

8 core 64 bit Intel composite machine

12 GB RAM 13.8 GB Virtual memory.

Firefox 32 bit version.


Here is my basic analysis.


I first tried a run of the mill web page--an old still functional local ISP that offers dial-up service and has low graphics and is not very cluttered: The Blue Moon Internet System: http://www.bluemoon.net. The navigation and overall performance was normal--I did not notice anything different from earlier versions of Firefox.


Being somewhat encouraged, I next visited one of my favorite sites espn.com and one of its sub pages for NFL articles: https://espn.com/nfl. This site is fairly cluttered but usually very simple to navigate. Again, I had no real issues. Navigational keys, automatic reading and other basics operated normally.


I then got a little bolder. I visited the CNN website: https://cnn.com. It might have taken a little longer time to load than normal, but I don't visit that site very often, so I am really not sure. It seemed relatively normal with perhaps a small lag--2 or 3 seconds maybe. Once the page loaded, I had no real issues. I was able to click on various section: world, USA, sports, breaking news, ETC. I chose to read the article about the coup in Zimbabwe--that deposed long time and ailing President Robert Magobbi. Everything seemed to work normally.


I then got real brave and visited the Yahoo sports page: https://sports.yahoo.com. This site hasn't worked very well for years. The page refreshes quite often--about every 30 seconds to a minute--even moreso during active sports events. This site also has the habbit of moving to the search field and activating forms/edit mode with every page load. All these aspects of this page were evident with Firefox 57, but they weren't any worse than with earlier versions of Firefox. I really wish Yahoo would fix these pages. Even using JAWS 17, the suppress web page refreshes hasn't worked in years and still doesn't--but I digress.


I then visited various live streaming pages which had accessible embedded players: Democracy Now: https://democracynow.org and AM 740 Toronto: https://zoomerradio.ca. Both these sites read normally and the embedded players showed buttons and I could activate, play, pause and control volumes as normal. There were no significant issues.


Finally, it has been reported that the downloads window does not read in Firefox 57. I tried downloading a small fie of 11 MB in size from the file storage site Send Space: https://www.sendspace.com. The download window showed up normally and I saw the progress as usual. Again, there was no significant difference from ealrier versions of Firefox.


Conclusion and possible causality:


I see very little difference using Firefox 57 with my current system. There may be a bit of sluggishness on sum pages, but not very much. The causes I am going to site are simply educated guesses--nothing more. You will see that I am using the 32 bit version of Firefox. I believe there is a 64 bit, but I have lways been warned off from using this version. I have always used a 32 bit version and had very good results. Maybe if some people are using the 64 bit version on a 64 bit system, that could cause issue. In addition, my system is a reasonably fast system. With 8 core and a lot of RAM and virtual memory, it is a real speed demon. The system boots in about 25 seconds from a cold boot. Programs launch rapidly and seldom lock up. Although Gene Asner might bite me (we've had debates over fast VS slow systems and how they affect other programs) I am wondering if my fast system mitigates issues with Firefox sluggishness and bad performance that others are having. (sorry Gene only kidding!) Again, this is simply an educated guess, but there must be some intrinsic issue on more than a few systems running Firefox 57 that are causing all these negative reports that I am receiving on this and other mailing lists for the blind.


Hopefully, this analysis will induce others to give Firefox 57 a try and allay some of the fear associated with it's installation.



--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



Re: firefox updating and becoming unusable

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Thank good ness somebody else has this issue. Everyone else is saying its marginally slower and only no script and some add ons fail. In my and your case its just not accessible and we need to discover the reason. I am using 32 bit Firefox and windows 7 64. If this is also you one of these might well be the reason. I suggest downloading version 52esr and sticking to that version until the situation is clearer. 57 is a bit of a mess since its half way to being a completely different browser to 56.
If you read all the Firefox messages here and read some of the nvaccess recent blogs, or the large item on the Jaws website you will find that this is a serious issue, more for some than others and all in the name of making it less hackable but in doing so making it hard for screenreaders to actually use it at all, at least in its eventual finished state.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Kuzma via Groups.Io" <rmkuzma=aol.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:44 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox updating and becoming unusable


Can someone tell me what just happened.

I opened firefox and it says is updating to latest version and it updated.

Now it does not work with nvda or even jaws.

Please help.

Thanks






Re: can't use the letter K to get from link to link

Gene
 

Always use cursor keys to navigate within web pages is set properly for screen-reader use by default.  As I recall, its off.  Navigation by screen-readers is done in browser mode by the screen-reader, not by the browser. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: zahra
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link

hello.
did you test with firefox?
in firefox, tools, options, find the last item which is advance.
advance in options, has five parts.
the first part is general and the first item is Always use the cursor
keys to navigate within pages

press space on it to activate it!
hope that help, God bless you all!

On 11/15/17, Jacob Kruger <jacob@...> wrote:
> First thing is to just open something as simple as notepad, and, make
> sure all the normal key combinations work like they should - things like
> ' ", shift + number row keys, etc. - that's a common symptom if, for
> example, someone has switched over to UK english keyboard layout, but,
> is used to the US english layout.
>
>
> Then, think the easiest way to double-check is to find the control
> panel, find language, and, tab around the window that should come up,
> until you find something like a list of languages installed, and, for
> example, mine is there set to English (South Africa). Keyboard layout:
> US. Available for download
> Keyboard layout: US.
>
>
> But, this might not be relevant at all, if the keyboard operates
> normally in other contexts, and, would then just suggest trying it out
> in a different browser to see if it still misbehaves, since that would
> then point out that it might indeed be an NVDA configuration issue?
>
>
> Stay well
>
>
> Jacob Kruger
> Blind Biker
> Skype: BlindZA
> "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
>
> On 2017/11/15 09:13, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
>>
>> I'm using the latest version of windows 10 which is the fall creators
>> update.
>>
>> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of
>> *Jacob Kruger
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 11:06 PM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link
>>
>> Really depends on operating system version, and, honestly, it was just
>> a form of guess - if keyboard works fine in other contexts, then it's
>> somewhat unlikely?
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 2017/11/15 08:43, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
>>
>>     How do I change that?
>>
>>     *From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>     [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Jacob Kruger
>>     *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:19 PM
>>     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link to link
>>
>>     Makes me think that maybe your input language has been set to some
>>     language other than US english, and, so, your keyboard is behaving
>>     oddly?
>>
>>     Jacob Kruger
>>
>>     Blind Biker
>>
>>     Skype: BlindZA
>>
>>     "Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>>     On 2017/11/15 04:39, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
>>
>>         The weird thing is that it happens in internet explorer. Not
>>         only that but if I'm trying to read a title bar in IE, I get
>>         "0 T" instead of the insert key. I don't have that problem in
>>         microsoft edge.
>>
>>         *From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>         [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Christopher-Mark
>>         Gilland
>>         *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 6:10 PM
>>         *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>         *Subject:* Re: [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link
>>         to link
>>
>>         Aa, sounds like somehow your NVDA key got unmapped from the
>>         insert key. Go into the NVDA menu, then preferences, general,
>>         and make sure that the NVDA modifier for insert is checked. If
>>         you wind up having to check it, then be sure to save your
>>         configuration afterwards with NVDA+CTRL+C.
>>
>>         ---
>>         Christopher Gilland
>>         Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
>>
>>         http://www.gshministry.org
>>         (980) 500-9575
>>
>>             ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>             *From:* Rosemarie Chavarria <mailto:knitqueen2007@...>
>>
>>             *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>
>>             *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 5:27 PM
>>
>>             *Subject:* [nvda] can't use the letter K to get from link
>>             to link
>>
>>             Hi, everyone,
>>
>>             Recently I had to have my computer repaired. Yesterday I
>>             brought it home from the shop but found that now I can't
>>             get to the links list with NVDA f-7 or the letter K.
>>             Whoever repaired my computer must have changed some
>>             settings on it. I have the proper boxes checked but don't
>>             know why this isn't working. Here is what I was trying to
>>             do. I wanted to go to the Gmail site to find out if I had
>>             messages in my spam folder that aren't spam. When I hit K
>>             to go from link to link, all I get is K and nothing else.
>>             When I hit NVDA f-7 to go to the links list, I get a
>>             message asking if I want to turn on caret browsing. What
>>             could bee causing this?
>>
>>             Thanks for your help in advance.
>>
>>             Rosemarie
>>
>>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org



Re: firefox what was the fuss exactly?

Gene
 

I was clarifying my position because I wasn't sure it was stated as clearly as it should have been or if it was being understood as well as it should have been.  And I think despite you evidently disagreeing, that the underlying poingt is worth considering.  Excessive dependence on optional features may lead to problems in certain contexts.  If its your computer, you can set it up as you wish.  If it's a friends computer or a work computer, or a library computer, you may not be able to and excessive dependence can make it harder to do things in various contexts than otherwise.
 
Gene. 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox what was the fuss exactly?

Since you are determined to have an argument about this, would you like a
five minute argument or a longer one we have arguments on offer this week!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox what was the fuss exactly?


There are some sounds that are important because you can't get information
efficiently about something such as a USB connection in other ways.  I may
not have made it as clear as I should have in my first message, but I'm
talking specifically about sounds in contexts such as browser sounds, where
the information can be efficiently gotten in other ways.  There are
advantages and disadvantages in various browsers but making whether sounds
are available in a browser be a very important factor in determining whether
to use that browser is, in my opinion, emphasizing sounds that are optional
to a far more central position than they should be.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: brian
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox what was the fuss exactly?


            I think that the reason that some blind people like sounds is it
gives us a indacation of what's going on just like the sighted can see at
glance.  It's like windows sounds.  We have the windows music to let us know
that our computer is on.  We have other windows sounds like the sound we
hear when we plug a thumbdrive in or unplug it.  If we did not hear this
sound we would think that there is a problem but if there was no sound then
how would we know that there was a problem.  Sounds may not be necessary but
they can really help us greatly to know what is happening.  I don't have my
sounds on in my webie brouser but I would not fault somone if they did.  I
do think that it's important to a sound for down loads because if there is a
problem with your internet connection then you would know.  Again the
sighted can just look but we can't.  Alot of people don't have good internet
and it can and does loose connection quite frequently.

Brian Sackrider




On 11/14/2017 9:04 AM, Gene wrote:

  I want to make my position clear and discuss another aspect of the current
situation in this rather long message.

  If people want to use sounds, there is nothing wrong with that but you
don't need them and my position is that being so dependent on them that you
make that a major determining factor on what browser to use is being too
dependent.  That's my position.  I didn't say they are worthless nor that
people shouldn't use them.  I'm talking about being too dependent on one
aspect of a program when that aspect isn't central to the program and when
there may be better programs in general that don't have this specific
characteristic.
  I'm saying that if someone considers sounds in browsers to be so important
that that is a major factor in deciding what browser to use, I consider that
to be too dependent.  There are other efficient ways to tell things when
using a browser.  If a page hasn't loaded, you can't move around.  Tabbing
or down arrowing once or twice will tell you.  I'm not saying, as you said,
that they are pointless.  I'm saying that almost anything sounds do, can be
either efficiently inferred or checked by other methods and that changing
from one browser to another based either only or largely on sounds, is
making this one characteristic of a browser too important.

  I don't want my position to be misunderstood.  If people want to use
sounds, then that's fine;  I'm saying that dependence on them to an
excessive degree is not desirable if it leads to decisions on what programs
to use in a certain class when trying to decide between program a and b that
do roughly the same thing.  Browsers have various advantages and
disadvantages and sound is only one aspect of a program.
  Also, the changes being made in firefox, according to a review I've read,
make it even faster than Chrome.  It isn't much faster, at least now, and I
don't think it matters but if people read the article about these changes
posted last week from Marco's Accessibility blog, these changes may result
in screen-readers being far more capable to work on complex pages that have
embedded programs or where the pages are far more interactive than
traditional web pages, and that increasing numbers of web pages are, and
will be more complex over time.  Therefore, I find the attitude of blaming
Mozilla for what it says it intends to be only a temporary loss of
performance for blind users, and writing as though they are going to
permanently use a different browser without even seeing the results of the
work being done is disturbing.  At the moment, Chrome may be better than
Firefoxs in its latest version because of the changes.  But blind people may
be better served by what Mozilla is doing after the initial inconvenience.

  How often do sighted people complain about things like road construction
and repair, but would they never use the road again because of the temporary
inconvenience?  They may use a different road during the repairs and the
road may even be closed at times, but they return to it when it is in good
order again.

  Gene
  ----- Original Message -----

  From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
  Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 3:11 AM
  To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
  Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox what was the fuss exactly?


  Well the beta I tried simply refused to say anything but unknown on any
  page, though most of the menus still worked.

  I'm not inclined to update since I use the sound, particularly the one
when
  a page has fully loaded and the one that tells me a link has in fact
  activated and of course download complete


  I have seen elsewhere where people think these sounds are pointless. I
  dispute this as everyone is different and I really only use browsers where
I
  can actually hear that things are going on. for example I've always
noticed
  that screenreaders sometimes do not figure out the page has loaded, but
  navigational sounds does and hence allows me to re focus the screenreader.
   Also I would not know if a download had completed if the download pane
was
  hidden without a sound.
   Some links click but clickables do not so sometimes you can figure out
what
  is which sort of link on a page this way. In a way it would be even better
  if button link and clickable had different sounds to save one getting
  confused.

  I think the list of things some of us want in a browser is obviously going
  to be different to what the sighted want, so one will really need somebody
  at Mozilla etc to write blind specific add ons for a browser.
   Its far easier when trying to teach somebody how to use a browser to be
  able to say, if you do not hear x then its not worked.
   Brian

  bglists@...
  Sent via blueyonder.
  Please address personal email to:-
  briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
  in the display name field.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
  To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
  Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 6:42 PM
  Subject: [nvda] firefox what was the fuss exactly?


  > Hi.
  >
  > Well While brousing firefox ftp today I decided to try firefox 57 as it
  > was on releases today.
  >
  > What exactly was the fuss?
  >
  > Firefox interface loads fast, no lag, but I havn't tried big sites maybe
a
  > couple seconds for audiogames forum.
  >
  > Addons, noscript, aparently this will not work till actual release of
  > firefox.
  >
  > Navigational sounds.
  >
  > I am trying to find a replacement, the author of this said that because
  > the new interface doesn't allow for registry access one can't get the
list
  > of events to do things with.
  >
  > I tried 3 of them so far.
  >
  > Notification sound, noise and download sound.
  >
  > Download sound has no options or rather any way I can configure it to
  > suit.
  >
  > Noise has options but there are no default events set and I tried to add
  > what I wanted and define its sounds but I can't set values and going to
  > its website found that while there is a web version all features are
  > basically not there.
  >
  > Notification sound is another, but its got no options screen.
  >
  > Something like noise would be fine if it had an default event list which
  > just used the windows schemes directly to the files etc.
  >
  > I only need web navigation start and end, and download complete as a
  > start.
  >
  > If there was a way I could easily add events, or something that would be
  > good but I'd like a list for beginners I could import.
  >
  > Over those though, I did notice and turn on the extra privacy
protection,
  > I have left active the unwanted software protection but I heard from
some
  > that this can cause problems.
  >
  > I also read the article about accessibility services and how they can be
  > misused.
  >
  > It does say if you have a compatible jaws or nvda active on your system
  > that you should leave this active.
  >
  > This is interesting, dolphin stuff is not on this list it makes me
wander,
  > while I do use dolphin stuff myself for things their web stuff is only
for
  > ie and ie 6-8 mainly.
  >
  > Still its an observation only.
  >
  > I must say off the bat what I really like about firefox are the easy
  > option layouts, I just wish there was a way to extend them to well have
  > extras for addons rather than mucking about with the manager.
  >
  > I do like the fact you can have arrow navigation on.
  >
  > I did get noscript revived but when I hit a site with scripts on it
never
  > actually notified me at all.
  >
  > I guess I have to fiddle with it, I do hope thatnoscript does go out and
  > get released.
  >
  > Today is the 14th in nz and tomorrow it will be 14th in us and so, I am
  > probably going to have to keep firefox 57 loaded though I am tempted to
  > drop back to 56.02 for now and get my sounds back.
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >