Date   

Re: Firefox Links

Gene
 

Most programs you run are 32 bit programs.  64 bit programs may perform better if they have a lot of data they need to work with such as a data-base program.  But home users who don't use such programs should notice little, if any, difference between 32 and 64 bit programs.  64 bit Windows can run 64 bit programs and 32 bit programs. 
 
And NVDA is a 32 bit program which is another demonstration of what I'm saying.  You should run antivirus programs that are 64 bit if you are using 64 bit Windows for technical reasons that I don't know.  Also, drivers are different and you need to run 64 bit versions of drivers.  But for programs in general, there is no need to match the bit version of Windows with the programs.
I sent the link to the page itself so you can find lots of download links.  I don't know if you are receiving mail as a digest and if you are, I don't know when you will see my message. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 9:53 AM
Subject: [nvda] Firefox Links

Hello Group,

Gene, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but pressing on the links
provided by you in both digests result in NVDA saying, Insecure
connection., just moments after enter key is pressed. I'm interested
in your recommend to download the 32-bit version of the ESR version,
though I have a 645  64-bit windows. My understanding is that one
should download the version that fits with their windows system
designation. Please say more about that when time permits.

The tutorial found from the American Foundation for the Blind website
is both a video and text version. I read the text version so I could
jot down in braille what to do.

Is alt r for run, no longer a used step in downloading things online? Thanks.


--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@...
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!



locked off topic: my farewell message for at least ten days:

 

hello every one.
two days later, we are going to the holy shrine of imams in iraq which
i mentioned one of them who are ark of salvation and mercy for entire
creation in my digital signiture.
so, i cant access internet in these days.
after my return, i am ready to help people again and also have Good
news for you by grace of Allah and blessings of prophet Mohammad and
his progeny (blessings of allah upon them!
i dont forget praying for you.
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you!
till then, goodbye and God bless you all!

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA

 

i use interface of gmail on firefox, i dont have any program for emails.

On 11/20/17, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
Please simply copy it to the clipboard and paste it into Notepad and save it
wherever you want. Or learn how to move mail in your e-mail program. If
you don't know, ask on list. It isn't a good idea to let mail accumulate in
the inbox and it would be far better to save the message outside of the
program.

Gene


From: zahra
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 9:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA


i recieve your message, but i want to have your tutorial in my inbox.

On 11/20/17, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
Since you see the e-mails on this list, and since I've sent the tutorial
twice in the last ten minutes, you should see it, especially since the
subject line of one message states that it is the tutorial. If you don't
receive it, let me know.

I didn't say that there is a ribbon interface in the new version of
Firefox.
I said that in the options dialog, a ribbon-like interface has been
used,
but it isn't a ribbon interface. You work with the options dialog as you
did previously but the use of fewer items in the list, such as general,
security, etc. and the use of category names as you tab along with the
much
larger amount of items you tab through, makes this far more like working
with a ribbon.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: zahra
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 9:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA


do you say that new firefox quantom has ribbon interface instead of
previous classic menu?
can you please send me your tutorial off list?
please sen me via my gmail address directly.
God bless you!

On 11/20/17, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
Here is the ribbon tutorial, below my signature.

Gene

I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to
work
with ribbons.

I've added a little to it here.

I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10
but
this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons,
or
any other ribbons, and see how things are organized.

First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that
you
need to know about-- the split button.
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in
Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more
options than just the default action. Let's take an example.
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.
If
you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down. That is the
default
action. Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow
while on the button or down arrow. As an example, if you are on the
shut
down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.
the
items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others. You up
or
down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear
announced
as you move through the list. the letter shortcuts often take actions
without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in
menus.

So, let's review. You find a split button that says shut down. If you
press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other
options
may be displayed. Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.
A
split button won't work with both methods. One method, either right
arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.
Try
both methods if you don't know which one might work. If you are on a
tool
bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing
will
open additional options. If you think about this, it makes sense. If
you
are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.
So
you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.
In
a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right
arrowing
will move you to the next item in the tool bar. So you down arrow when
on
the split button to cause it to display more options. But some tool
bars
run up and down the screen, as menus do. And at times, you may not be
sure
which way a structure extends on screen. So, as I said, if you are not
sure
or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display
more
options. Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split
button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite
direction to move out of them. For example, if you right arrowed to
open
more options, left arrow.
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.
In
that case, open them with alt down arrow. Then tab through the
additional
options. I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if
you
want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down
arrow
to open it.

Now, to ribbons themselves.

Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted
if
you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands
effectively
and efficiently. and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS
virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about
ribbons
being difficult to use. the training material is just plain wrong and
using
virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.
There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.

Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.
Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine. Wordpad provides
a
good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.

The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper
ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc.
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to
move
through the ribbons. Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through
all
the menus.

For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move
with
the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep
right
arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish. You can move
through
all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left
arrow
whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.

Stop on view. Then start tabbing. You will move through all items in
what
is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon.

In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.
Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.

Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons. Use either the space bar or
enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu
and
if
you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.

Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to
work
with that item.
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't. To hear the short cut, use the
command JAWS key tab. If you are using the default JAWS key, it is
either
insert.

Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert
tab.
You will hear some extraneous information. The last thing you will
hear
is
the short cut sequence. You can repeat the information by repeating the
command as often as you want.

Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.
Return
to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons. You can
either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.
Now, open the ribbons again with alt.
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down
grid. Never mind drop down grid. It's a description you don't have to
worry about. The important things are that you are on a button and at
the
application menu. Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.
Activating the button opens the menu. Start down arrowing. you will
hear
all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action.
When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f. When you open the menu
and
move through it, you will hear all the letters announced. for example,
if
you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a. that means that, when
you
are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt
f,
then type a. Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as. Ribbon
programs have one menu and you should look through it. Many important
and
common commands and interfaces such as options may be there. By
options,
I
mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.

Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some
more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to
the
ribbon interface with alt. Then right and left arrow, just as you would
move from menu to menu.
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter. So, alt h takes
you
to the home ribbon. Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc. Once you
are
on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the
items
in a ribbon. Shift tab to move back through the items. So tab and
shift
tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you
tab. for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category
named
respond. You may hear this announced as respond tool bar. As you tab,
you
will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.
When
you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything
spoken.
You will miss the first command in the category if you do. I'm talking
about working with an unfamiliar ribbon.
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.
So
memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly.
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize
items.
You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you
see
if there is a category you want to look through.
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad. For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for
view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward
from
category to category and control left arrow to move back. When you get
to
a
category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing. Of course, you
can
shift tab to move back.

Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized
by
moving through it.
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is
in
a
category.

Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are
mostly
retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't
already
know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list
of
keyboard commands for the program. Such lists are often available in
the
help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used
an
older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands
you
know will work.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: Firefox Links

 

hello again.
whats the reason that you did not try my link?
its 32bit version of firefox esr.
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/52.5.0esr/win32/en-US/Firefox%20Setup%2052.5.0esr.exe

On 11/20/17, David Russell <david.sonofhashem@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Group,

Gene, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but pressing on the links
provided by you in both digests result in NVDA saying, Insecure
connection., just moments after enter key is pressed. I'm interested
in your recommend to download the 32-bit version of the ESR version,
though I have a 645 64-bit windows. My understanding is that one
should download the version that fits with their windows system
designation. Please say more about that when time permits.

The tutorial found from the American Foundation for the Blind website
is both a video and text version. I read the text version so I could
jot down in braille what to do.

Is alt r for run, no longer a used step in downloading things online?
Thanks.


--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: The Firefox 57 Saga

Sky Mundell
 

Hello David. If your using Internet explorer, then, press alt and the letter N to get to the notification bar, then press the alt and the letter R key to run. The program.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Russell
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 7:22 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] The Firefox 57 Saga

Hello Group,

I found a tutorial from 2015 produced by the American Foundation for the Blind, which provided a step by sptep on how to download and install Firefox.

At the point of finding the ESR version for US English 64-bit version I pressed the enter key. Then, I was told the download was opening, bla bla bla, and then asked if I wanted to save it?

The tutorial instructed to run it, which I did by pressing the alt key and letter r. Nothing happened.

I repeated this twice with the same result, nothing happening, so tabbed to cancel.

The ESR version seems to be for groups and not individuals. What is the way around this for blind users?

How do I get the damn thing to run?


--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!


Firefox Links

David Russell
 

Hello Group,

Gene, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but pressing on the links
provided by you in both digests result in NVDA saying, Insecure
connection., just moments after enter key is pressed. I'm interested
in your recommend to download the 32-bit version of the ESR version,
though I have a 645 64-bit windows. My understanding is that one
should download the version that fits with their windows system
designation. Please say more about that when time permits.

The tutorial found from the American Foundation for the Blind website
is both a video and text version. I read the text version so I could
jot down in braille what to do.

Is alt r for run, no longer a used step in downloading things online? Thanks.


--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!


Re: Options Please?

Gene
 

Here is another link that won't have this problem:
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Options Please?

I just checked and the American link yields an insecure connection message.  This is on the Mozilla site so if you want to report it to Mozilla, that may be helpful.  There are, as I said, a lot of download links on the actual page that lists the different language versions so you may try any other you wish.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Options Please?

The link is the direct download link to download the program.  When you use it, the download procedure your browser uses should begin.  I tried the American link, you didn't specify which you trued, and it works properly in Firefox.  There are several download links on the main page for every language category, presumably mirrors. 
the links came directly from the Mozilla site so they are either Mozilla links or officially approved links. 
To try other links, go to
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Options Please?

Gene,


I tried using the link you gave and Chrome gave me a security warning page.  It says it isnt secure.  Are you sure that is a valid Mozilla site?


Thanks.


Dan Beaver


On 11/20/2017 9:51 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what the writer of the article was saying or had in mind.  Old versions of firefox have and will continue to be available but it makes no sense to use anything other than the ESR version at this time.  Anything you saw regarding Thunderbird doesn't apply.  I don't know if it matters, but I would suggest using the 32 bit version of the ESR program.  that ensures that you wont have problems with add ons that may only run in the 32 bit version.  Also, I suspect the 32 bit version may be at least a little less demanding on processor power, though I don't know that.  There is either nothing, or nothing that matters, that you can't do with the 32 bit ESR program than with the 64 bit ESR program. 
 
This has nothing to do with NVDA.  Download the program from Mozilla. 
Here is a download link for the American version. 

Dear Group,

I am having help this evening in about 12 hours, to download and
install something to replace Firefox 57 as my processor cannot meet
the demand ot the new Quantum. That was supposed to read, of the new
Quantum.

I have a windows 7 machine.

I notice someone asked for NVDA 17.4, 32-bit version link to be sent
them. I have a 64-bit machine, but notice the link said Firefox 57
Thunderbird. Yet there was a number 52.4 somewhere in the email or
request. I understand about the ESR Version, or going with Firefox 56
as an option. However, I read an article stating that unless one
downloaded previous versions by November 10, they now have to resort
to the ESR Version; the article is by one Sarah Pulis. I don't recall
the publication title, but it comes from Australia online.

I live in the US and wonder is Thunderbird something NVDA produces
that comes loaded with a user-friendly version of Mozilla for blind
users working with windows computers pre Windows 10?

Should I go to the nvaccess.org link to download the ESR version or to
Mozilla? I did see the notice posted on October 31. A link was
provided.

Finally, is there a tutorial somewhere instructing blind users on
steps to downloading and installing a program to the computer via
keyboard?

Thanks for bearing with my lengthy message.

All the Best,


--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@...
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!




Re: need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA

Gene
 

Please simply copy it to the clipboard and paste it into Notepad and save it wherever you want.  Or learn how to move mail in your e-mail program.  If you don't know, ask on list.  It isn't a good idea to let mail accumulate in the inbox and it would be far better to save the message outside of the program. 
 
Gene

From: zahra
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA

i recieve your message, but i want to have your tutorial in my inbox.

On 11/20/17, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> Since you see the e-mails on this list, and since I've sent the tutorial
> twice in the last ten minutes, you should see it, especially since the
> subject line of one message states that it is the tutorial.  If you don't
> receive it, let me know.
>
> I didn't say that there is a ribbon interface in the new version of Firefox.
>  I said that in the options dialog, a ribbon-like interface has been used,
> but it isn't a ribbon interface.  You work with the options dialog as you
> did previously but the use of fewer items in the list, such as general,
> security, etc. and the use of category names as you tab along with the much
> larger amount of items you tab through, makes this far more like working
> with a ribbon.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: zahra
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 9:08 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA
>
>
> do you say that new firefox quantom has ribbon interface instead of
> previous classic menu?
> can you please send me your tutorial off list?
> please sen me via my gmail address directly.
> God bless you!
>
> On 11/20/17, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
>> Here is the ribbon tutorial, below my signature.
>>
>> Gene
>>
>> I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to
>> work
>> with ribbons.
>>
>> I've added a little to it here.
>>
>> I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10
>> but
>> this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or
>> any other ribbons, and see how things are organized.
>>
>> First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that
>> you
>> need to know about-- the split button.
>> One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in
>> Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more
>> options than just the default action.  Let's take an example.
>> Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If
>> you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the
>> default
>> action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow
>> while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut
>> down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.
>> the
>> items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up
>> or
>> down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear
>> announced
>> as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions
>> without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in
>> menus.
>>
>> So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you
>> press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other
>> options
>> may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.
>> A
>> split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right
>> arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.
>> Try
>> both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a
>> tool
>> bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing
>> will
>> open additional options.  If you think about this, it makes sense.  If
>> you
>> are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.
>> So
>> you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.
>> In
>> a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right
>> arrowing
>> will move you to the next item in the tool bar.  So you down arrow when
>> on
>> the split button to cause it to display more options.  But some tool bars
>> run up and down the screen, as menus do.  And at times, you may not be
>> sure
>> which way a structure extends on screen.  So, as I said, if you are not
>> sure
>> or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display
>> more
>> options.  Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split
>> button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite
>> direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open
>> more options, left arrow.
>> Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.
>> In
>> that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the
>> additional
>> options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if
>> you
>> want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down
>> arrow
>> to open it.
>>
>> Now, to ribbons themselves.
>>
>> Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if
>> you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands
>> effectively
>> and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS
>> virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about
>> ribbons
>> being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and
>> using
>> virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.
>> There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.
>>
>> Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.
>> Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine.  Wordpad provides a
>> good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.
>>
>> The essence of working with ribbons is this:
>> Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
>> You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper
>> ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc.
>> To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move
>> through the ribbons.  Move in one
>> direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through
>> all
>> the menus.
>>
>> For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move
>> with
>> the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep
>> right
>> arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move
>> through
>> all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left
>> arrow
>> whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.
>>
>> Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in
>> what
>> is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon.
>>
>> In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.
>> Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
>> So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
>>
>> Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or
>> enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and
>> if
>> you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.
>>
>> Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to
>> work
>> with that item.
>> But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the
>> command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is
>> either
>> insert.
>>
>> Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert
>> tab.
>>  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear
>> is
>> the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the
>> command as often as you want.
>>
>> Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.
>> Return
>> to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can
>> either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.
>> Now, open the ribbons again with alt.
>> Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
>> You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down
>> grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to
>> worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at
>> the
>> application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.
>> Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear
>> all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action.
>> When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f.  When you open the menu
>> and
>> move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example,
>> if
>> you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when
>> you
>> are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt
>> f,
>> then type a.  Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as.  Ribbon
>> programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important
>> and
>> common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options,
>> I
>> mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.
>>
>> Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some
>> more.
>> To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to
>> the
>> ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would
>> move from menu to menu.
>> You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes
>> you
>> to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you
>> are
>> on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the
>> items
>> in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift
>> tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
>> Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you
>> tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category
>> named
>> respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab,
>> you
>> will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.
>> When
>> you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything
>> spoken.
>> You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking
>> about working with an unfamiliar ribbon.
>> there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.
>> So
>> memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly.
>> As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize
>> items.
>>  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you
>> see
>> if there is a category you want to look through.
>> Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for
>> view.
>> Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward
>> from
>> category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to
>> a
>> category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you
>> can
>> shift tab to move back.
>>
>> Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by
>> moving through it.
>> Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in
>> a
>> category.
>>
>> Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are
>> mostly
>> retained in programs
>> that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't
>> already
>> know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list
>> of
>> keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the
>> help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used
>> an
>> older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands
>> you
>> know will work.
>>
>
>
> --
> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
> in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
> indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
> www.al-islam.org
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org



Re: The Firefox 57 Saga

Gene
 

The tutorial is for Internet Explorer.  Download the file and run it.  Firefox, as I recall, doesn't have the run option and that is more protection against running something without thinking for the user.  Also, it's better to download things so that you can keep them in case you need them later.  You should save every file you run that you get from the Internet because something you install may become corrupted at some point and the file you downloaded may no longer be available or it will save you time and trouble to already have it if it is. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 9:22 AM
Subject: [nvda] The Firefox 57 Saga

Hello Group,

I found a tutorial from 2015 produced by the American Foundation for
the Blind, which provided a step by sptep on how to download and
install Firefox.

At the point of finding the ESR version for US English 64-bit version
I pressed the enter key. Then, I was told the download was opening,
bla bla bla, and then asked if I wanted to save it?

The tutorial instructed to run it, which I did by pressing the alt key
and letter r.  Nothing happened.

I repeated this twice with the same result, nothing happening, so
tabbed to cancel.

The ESR version seems to be for groups and not individuals. What is
the way around this for blind users?

How do I get the damn thing to run?


--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@...
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!



Re: need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA

 

i recieve your message, but i want to have your tutorial in my inbox.

On 11/20/17, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
Since you see the e-mails on this list, and since I've sent the tutorial
twice in the last ten minutes, you should see it, especially since the
subject line of one message states that it is the tutorial. If you don't
receive it, let me know.

I didn't say that there is a ribbon interface in the new version of Firefox.
I said that in the options dialog, a ribbon-like interface has been used,
but it isn't a ribbon interface. You work with the options dialog as you
did previously but the use of fewer items in the list, such as general,
security, etc. and the use of category names as you tab along with the much
larger amount of items you tab through, makes this far more like working
with a ribbon.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: zahra
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 9:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA


do you say that new firefox quantom has ribbon interface instead of
previous classic menu?
can you please send me your tutorial off list?
please sen me via my gmail address directly.
God bless you!

On 11/20/17, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
Here is the ribbon tutorial, below my signature.

Gene

I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to
work
with ribbons.

I've added a little to it here.

I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10
but
this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or
any other ribbons, and see how things are organized.

First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that
you
need to know about-- the split button.
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in
Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more
options than just the default action. Let's take an example.
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows. If
you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down. That is the
default
action. Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow
while on the button or down arrow. As an example, if you are on the shut
down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.
the
items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others. You up
or
down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear
announced
as you move through the list. the letter shortcuts often take actions
without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in
menus.

So, let's review. You find a split button that says shut down. If you
press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other
options
may be displayed. Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.
A
split button won't work with both methods. One method, either right
arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.
Try
both methods if you don't know which one might work. If you are on a
tool
bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing
will
open additional options. If you think about this, it makes sense. If
you
are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.
So
you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.
In
a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right
arrowing
will move you to the next item in the tool bar. So you down arrow when
on
the split button to cause it to display more options. But some tool bars
run up and down the screen, as menus do. And at times, you may not be
sure
which way a structure extends on screen. So, as I said, if you are not
sure
or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display
more
options. Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split
button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite
direction to move out of them. For example, if you right arrowed to open
more options, left arrow.
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.
In
that case, open them with alt down arrow. Then tab through the
additional
options. I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if
you
want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down
arrow
to open it.

Now, to ribbons themselves.

Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if
you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands
effectively
and efficiently. and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS
virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about
ribbons
being difficult to use. the training material is just plain wrong and
using
virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.
There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.

Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.
Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine. Wordpad provides a
good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.

The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper
ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc.
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move
through the ribbons. Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through
all
the menus.

For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move
with
the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep
right
arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish. You can move
through
all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left
arrow
whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.

Stop on view. Then start tabbing. You will move through all items in
what
is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon.

In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.
Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.

Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons. Use either the space bar or
enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and
if
you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.

Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to
work
with that item.
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't. To hear the short cut, use the
command JAWS key tab. If you are using the default JAWS key, it is
either
insert.

Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert
tab.
You will hear some extraneous information. The last thing you will hear
is
the short cut sequence. You can repeat the information by repeating the
command as often as you want.

Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.
Return
to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons. You can
either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.
Now, open the ribbons again with alt.
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down
grid. Never mind drop down grid. It's a description you don't have to
worry about. The important things are that you are on a button and at
the
application menu. Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.
Activating the button opens the menu. Start down arrowing. you will hear
all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action.
When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f. When you open the menu
and
move through it, you will hear all the letters announced. for example,
if
you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a. that means that, when
you
are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt
f,
then type a. Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as. Ribbon
programs have one menu and you should look through it. Many important
and
common commands and interfaces such as options may be there. By options,
I
mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.

Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some
more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to
the
ribbon interface with alt. Then right and left arrow, just as you would
move from menu to menu.
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter. So, alt h takes
you
to the home ribbon. Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc. Once you
are
on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the
items
in a ribbon. Shift tab to move back through the items. So tab and shift
tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you
tab. for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category
named
respond. You may hear this announced as respond tool bar. As you tab,
you
will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.
When
you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything
spoken.
You will miss the first command in the category if you do. I'm talking
about working with an unfamiliar ribbon.
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.
So
memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly.
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize
items.
You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you
see
if there is a category you want to look through.
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad. For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for
view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward
from
category to category and control left arrow to move back. When you get to
a
category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing. Of course, you
can
shift tab to move back.

Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by
moving through it.
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in
a
category.

Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are
mostly
retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't
already
know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list
of
keyboard commands for the program. Such lists are often available in the
help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used
an
older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands
you
know will work.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: Options Please?

 

hello.
firefox since version 52, considers this link insecure.
but for me (who decided never update my firefox from 51), dont recieve
this error.

hear you are the direct link which i sent it before for latest firefox
esr version.

https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/52.5.0esr/win32/en-US/Firefox%20Setup%2052.5.0esr.exe

On 11/20/17, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
The link is the direct download link to download the program. When you use
it, the download procedure your browser uses should begin. I tried the
American link, you didn't specify which you trued, and it works properly in
Firefox. There are several download links on the main page for every
language category, presumably mirrors.
the links came directly from the Mozilla site so they are either Mozilla
links or officially approved links.
To try other links, go to
https://download-sha1.allizom.org/?product=firefox-esr-latest-ssl&os=win&lang=en-US

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 8:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Options Please?


Gene,




I tried using the link you gave and Chrome gave me a security warning page.
It says it isnt secure. Are you sure that is a valid Mozilla site?





Thanks.




Dan Beaver




On 11/20/2017 9:51 AM, Gene wrote:

I don't know what the writer of the article was saying or had in mind.
Old versions of firefox have and will continue to be available but it makes
no sense to use anything other than the ESR version at this time. Anything
you saw regarding Thunderbird doesn't apply. I don't know if it matters,
but I would suggest using the 32 bit version of the ESR program. that
ensures that you wont have problems with add ons that may only run in the 32
bit version. Also, I suspect the 32 bit version may be at least a little
less demanding on processor power, though I don't know that. There is
either nothing, or nothing that matters, that you can't do with the 32 bit
ESR program than with the 64 bit ESR program.

This has nothing to do with NVDA. Download the program from Mozilla.
Here is a download link for the American version.

https://download-sha1.allizom.org/?product=firefox-esr-latest-ssl&os=win&lang=en-US
Here is the Brittish version:

https://download-sha1.allizom.org/?product=firefox-esr-latest-ssl&os=win&lang=en-GB
And the South African version is:

https://download-sha1.allizom.org/?product=firefox-esr-latest-ssl&os=win&lang=en-ZA

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: David Russell
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 7:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Options Please?


Dear Group,

I am having help this evening in about 12 hours, to download and
install something to replace Firefox 57 as my processor cannot meet
the demand ot the new Quantum. That was supposed to read, of the new
Quantum.

I have a windows 7 machine.

I notice someone asked for NVDA 17.4, 32-bit version link to be sent
them. I have a 64-bit machine, but notice the link said Firefox 57
Thunderbird. Yet there was a number 52.4 somewhere in the email or
request. I understand about the ESR Version, or going with Firefox 56
as an option. However, I read an article stating that unless one
downloaded previous versions by November 10, they now have to resort
to the ESR Version; the article is by one Sarah Pulis. I don't recall
the publication title, but it comes from Australia online.

I live in the US and wonder is Thunderbird something NVDA produces
that comes loaded with a user-friendly version of Mozilla for blind
users working with windows computers pre Windows 10?

Should I go to the nvaccess.org link to download the ESR version or to
Mozilla? I did see the notice posted on October 31. A link was
provided.

Finally, is there a tutorial somewhere instructing blind users on
steps to downloading and installing a program to the computer via
keyboard?

Thanks for bearing with my lengthy message.

All the Best,


--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!





--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA

Gene
 

Since you see the e-mails on this list, and since I've sent the tutorial twice in the last ten minutes, you should see it, especially since the subject line of one message states that it is the tutorial.  If you don't receive it, let me know.
 
I didn't say that there is a ribbon interface in the new version of Firefox.  I said that in the options dialog, a ribbon-like interface has been used, but it isn't a ribbon interface.  You work with the options dialog as you did previously but the use of fewer items in the list, such as general, security, etc. and the use of category names as you tab along with the much larger amount of items you tab through, makes this far more like working with a ribbon.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: zahra
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA

do you say that new firefox quantom has ribbon interface instead of
previous classic menu?
can you please send me your tutorial off list?
please sen me via my gmail address directly.
God bless you!

On 11/20/17, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> Here is the ribbon tutorial, below my signature.
>
> Gene
>
> I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work
> with ribbons.
>
> I've added a little to it here.
>
> I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10 but
> this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or
> any other ribbons, and see how things are organized.
>
> First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you
> need to know about-- the split button.
> One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in
> Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more
> options than just the default action.  Let's take an example.
> Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If
> you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default
> action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow
> while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut
> down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the
> items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or
> down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced
> as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions
> without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in
> menus.
>
> So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you
> press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options
> may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A
> split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right
> arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try
> both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool
> bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will
> open additional options.  If you think about this, it makes sense.  If you
> are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.  So
> you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.  In
> a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right arrowing
> will move you to the next item in the tool bar.  So you down arrow when on
> the split button to cause it to display more options.  But some tool bars
> run up and down the screen, as menus do.  And at times, you may not be sure
> which way a structure extends on screen.  So, as I said, if you are not sure
> or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display more
> options.  Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split
> button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite
> direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open
> more options, left arrow.
> Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In
> that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional
> options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you
> want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow
> to open it.
>
> Now, to ribbons themselves.
>
> Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if
> you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively
> and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS
> virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons
> being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and using
> virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.
> There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.
>
> Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.
> Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine.  Wordpad provides a
> good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.
>
> The essence of working with ribbons is this:
> Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
> You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper
> ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc.
> To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move
> through the ribbons.  Move in one
> direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all
> the menus.
>
> For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with
> the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right
> arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through
> all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow
> whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.
>
> Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what
> is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon.
>
> In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.
> Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
> So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
>
> Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or
> enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if
> you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.
>
> Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work
> with that item.
> But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the
> command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either
> insert.
>
> Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.
>  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is
> the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the
> command as often as you want.
>
> Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return
> to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can
> either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.
> Now, open the ribbons again with alt.
> Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
> You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down
> grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to
> worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the
> application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.
> Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear
> all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action.
> When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f.  When you open the menu and
> move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if
> you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you
> are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt f,
> then type a.  Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as.  Ribbon
> programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and
> common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I
> mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.
>
> Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some
> more.
> To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the
> ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would
> move from menu to menu.
> You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you
> to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are
> on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items
> in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift
> tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
> Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you
> tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named
> respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you
> will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When
> you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.
> You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking
> about working with an unfamiliar ribbon.
> there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So
> memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly.
> As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.
>  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see
> if there is a category you want to look through.
> Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for
> view.
> Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from
> category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a
> category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can
> shift tab to move back.
>
> Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by
> moving through it.
> Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a
> category.
>
> Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly
> retained in programs
> that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already
> know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of
> keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the
> help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an
> older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you
> know will work.
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org



The Firefox 57 Saga

David Russell
 

Hello Group,

I found a tutorial from 2015 produced by the American Foundation for
the Blind, which provided a step by sptep on how to download and
install Firefox.

At the point of finding the ESR version for US English 64-bit version
I pressed the enter key. Then, I was told the download was opening,
bla bla bla, and then asked if I wanted to save it?

The tutorial instructed to run it, which I did by pressing the alt key
and letter r. Nothing happened.

I repeated this twice with the same result, nothing happening, so
tabbed to cancel.

The ESR version seems to be for groups and not individuals. What is
the way around this for blind users?

How do I get the damn thing to run?


--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!


Re: Options Please?

Gene
 

I just checked and the American link yields an insecure connection message.  This is on the Mozilla site so if you want to report it to Mozilla, that may be helpful.  There are, as I said, a lot of download links on the actual page that lists the different language versions so you may try any other you wish.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Options Please?

The link is the direct download link to download the program.  When you use it, the download procedure your browser uses should begin.  I tried the American link, you didn't specify which you trued, and it works properly in Firefox.  There are several download links on the main page for every language category, presumably mirrors. 
the links came directly from the Mozilla site so they are either Mozilla links or officially approved links. 
To try other links, go to
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Options Please?

Gene,


I tried using the link you gave and Chrome gave me a security warning page.  It says it isnt secure.  Are you sure that is a valid Mozilla site?


Thanks.


Dan Beaver


On 11/20/2017 9:51 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what the writer of the article was saying or had in mind.  Old versions of firefox have and will continue to be available but it makes no sense to use anything other than the ESR version at this time.  Anything you saw regarding Thunderbird doesn't apply.  I don't know if it matters, but I would suggest using the 32 bit version of the ESR program.  that ensures that you wont have problems with add ons that may only run in the 32 bit version.  Also, I suspect the 32 bit version may be at least a little less demanding on processor power, though I don't know that.  There is either nothing, or nothing that matters, that you can't do with the 32 bit ESR program than with the 64 bit ESR program. 
 
This has nothing to do with NVDA.  Download the program from Mozilla. 
Here is a download link for the American version. 

Dear Group,

I am having help this evening in about 12 hours, to download and
install something to replace Firefox 57 as my processor cannot meet
the demand ot the new Quantum. That was supposed to read, of the new
Quantum.

I have a windows 7 machine.

I notice someone asked for NVDA 17.4, 32-bit version link to be sent
them. I have a 64-bit machine, but notice the link said Firefox 57
Thunderbird. Yet there was a number 52.4 somewhere in the email or
request. I understand about the ESR Version, or going with Firefox 56
as an option. However, I read an article stating that unless one
downloaded previous versions by November 10, they now have to resort
to the ESR Version; the article is by one Sarah Pulis. I don't recall
the publication title, but it comes from Australia online.

I live in the US and wonder is Thunderbird something NVDA produces
that comes loaded with a user-friendly version of Mozilla for blind
users working with windows computers pre Windows 10?

Should I go to the nvaccess.org link to download the ESR version or to
Mozilla? I did see the notice posted on October 31. A link was
provided.

Finally, is there a tutorial somewhere instructing blind users on
steps to downloading and installing a program to the computer via
keyboard?

Thanks for bearing with my lengthy message.

All the Best,


--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@...
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!




Re: Options Please?

Dan Beaver
 

Hi,


I tried the American link when I got the error.


I just tried the link in this posting and used Firefox this time and it gave me a unsecured site warning too.


I think I will just forget about it for now.


Thanks anyway.


Dan Beaver


On 11/20/2017 10:08 AM, Gene wrote:
The link is the direct download link to download the program.  When you use it, the download procedure your browser uses should begin.  I tried the American link, you didn't specify which you trued, and it works properly in Firefox.  There are several download links on the main page for every language category, presumably mirrors. 
the links came directly from the Mozilla site so they are either Mozilla links or officially approved links. 
To try other links, go to
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Options Please?

Gene,


I tried using the link you gave and Chrome gave me a security warning page.  It says it isnt secure.  Are you sure that is a valid Mozilla site?


Thanks.


Dan Beaver


On 11/20/2017 9:51 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what the writer of the article was saying or had in mind.  Old versions of firefox have and will continue to be available but it makes no sense to use anything other than the ESR version at this time.  Anything you saw regarding Thunderbird doesn't apply.  I don't know if it matters, but I would suggest using the 32 bit version of the ESR program.  that ensures that you wont have problems with add ons that may only run in the 32 bit version.  Also, I suspect the 32 bit version may be at least a little less demanding on processor power, though I don't know that.  There is either nothing, or nothing that matters, that you can't do with the 32 bit ESR program than with the 64 bit ESR program. 
 
This has nothing to do with NVDA.  Download the program from Mozilla. 
Here is a download link for the American version. 
And the South African version is:
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 7:51 AM
Subject: [nvda] Options Please?

Dear Group,

I am having help this evening in about 12 hours, to download and
install something to replace Firefox 57 as my processor cannot meet
the demand ot the new Quantum. That was supposed to read, of the new
Quantum.

I have a windows 7 machine.

I notice someone asked for NVDA 17.4, 32-bit version link to be sent
them. I have a 64-bit machine, but notice the link said Firefox 57
Thunderbird. Yet there was a number 52.4 somewhere in the email or
request. I understand about the ESR Version, or going with Firefox 56
as an option. However, I read an article stating that unless one
downloaded previous versions by November 10, they now have to resort
to the ESR Version; the article is by one Sarah Pulis. I don't recall
the publication title, but it comes from Australia online.

I live in the US and wonder is Thunderbird something NVDA produces
that comes loaded with a user-friendly version of Mozilla for blind
users working with windows computers pre Windows 10?

Should I go to the nvaccess.org link to download the ESR version or to
Mozilla? I did see the notice posted on October 31. A link was
provided.

Finally, is there a tutorial somewhere instructing blind users on
steps to downloading and installing a program to the computer via
keyboard?

Thanks for bearing with my lengthy message.

All the Best,


--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@...
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!





Re: need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA

 

do you say that new firefox quantom has ribbon interface instead of
previous classic menu?
can you please send me your tutorial off list?
please sen me via my gmail address directly.
God bless you!

On 11/20/17, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
Here is the ribbon tutorial, below my signature.

Gene

I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work
with ribbons.

I've added a little to it here.

I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10 but
this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or
any other ribbons, and see how things are organized.

First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you
need to know about-- the split button.
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in
Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more
options than just the default action. Let's take an example.
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows. If
you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down. That is the default
action. Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow
while on the button or down arrow. As an example, if you are on the shut
down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open. the
items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others. You up or
down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced
as you move through the list. the letter shortcuts often take actions
without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in
menus.

So, let's review. You find a split button that says shut down. If you
press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options
may be displayed. Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed. A
split button won't work with both methods. One method, either right
arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button. Try
both methods if you don't know which one might work. If you are on a tool
bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will
open additional options. If you think about this, it makes sense. If you
are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu. So
you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options. In
a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right arrowing
will move you to the next item in the tool bar. So you down arrow when on
the split button to cause it to display more options. But some tool bars
run up and down the screen, as menus do. And at times, you may not be sure
which way a structure extends on screen. So, as I said, if you are not sure
or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display more
options. Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split
button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite
direction to move out of them. For example, if you right arrowed to open
more options, left arrow.
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow. In
that case, open them with alt down arrow. Then tab through the additional
options. I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you
want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow
to open it.

Now, to ribbons themselves.

Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if
you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively
and efficiently. and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS
virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons
being difficult to use. the training material is just plain wrong and using
virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.
There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.

Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.
Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine. Wordpad provides a
good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.

The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper
ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc.
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move
through the ribbons. Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all
the menus.

For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with
the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right
arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish. You can move through
all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow
whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.

Stop on view. Then start tabbing. You will move through all items in what
is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon.

In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.
Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.

Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons. Use either the space bar or
enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if
you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.

Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work
with that item.
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't. To hear the short cut, use the
command JAWS key tab. If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either
insert.

Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.
You will hear some extraneous information. The last thing you will hear is
the short cut sequence. You can repeat the information by repeating the
command as often as you want.

Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu. Return
to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons. You can
either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.
Now, open the ribbons again with alt.
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down
grid. Never mind drop down grid. It's a description you don't have to
worry about. The important things are that you are on a button and at the
application menu. Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.
Activating the button opens the menu. Start down arrowing. you will hear
all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action.
When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f. When you open the menu and
move through it, you will hear all the letters announced. for example, if
you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a. that means that, when you
are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt f,
then type a. Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as. Ribbon
programs have one menu and you should look through it. Many important and
common commands and interfaces such as options may be there. By options, I
mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.

Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some
more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the
ribbon interface with alt. Then right and left arrow, just as you would
move from menu to menu.
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter. So, alt h takes you
to the home ribbon. Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc. Once you are
on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items
in a ribbon. Shift tab to move back through the items. So tab and shift
tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you
tab. for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named
respond. You may hear this announced as respond tool bar. As you tab, you
will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category. When
you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.
You will miss the first command in the category if you do. I'm talking
about working with an unfamiliar ribbon.
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu. So
memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly.
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.
You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see
if there is a category you want to look through.
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad. For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for
view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from
category to category and control left arrow to move back. When you get to a
category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing. Of course, you can
shift tab to move back.

Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by
moving through it.
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a
category.

Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly
retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already
know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of
keyboard commands for the program. Such lists are often available in the
help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an
older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you
know will work.
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: Options Please?

Gene
 

The link is the direct download link to download the program.  When you use it, the download procedure your browser uses should begin.  I tried the American link, you didn't specify which you trued, and it works properly in Firefox.  There are several download links on the main page for every language category, presumably mirrors. 
the links came directly from the Mozilla site so they are either Mozilla links or officially approved links. 
To try other links, go to

----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Options Please?

Gene,


I tried using the link you gave and Chrome gave me a security warning page.  It says it isnt secure.  Are you sure that is a valid Mozilla site?


Thanks.


Dan Beaver


On 11/20/2017 9:51 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what the writer of the article was saying or had in mind.  Old versions of firefox have and will continue to be available but it makes no sense to use anything other than the ESR version at this time.  Anything you saw regarding Thunderbird doesn't apply.  I don't know if it matters, but I would suggest using the 32 bit version of the ESR program.  that ensures that you wont have problems with add ons that may only run in the 32 bit version.  Also, I suspect the 32 bit version may be at least a little less demanding on processor power, though I don't know that.  There is either nothing, or nothing that matters, that you can't do with the 32 bit ESR program than with the 64 bit ESR program. 
 
This has nothing to do with NVDA.  Download the program from Mozilla. 
Here is a download link for the American version. 

Dear Group,

I am having help this evening in about 12 hours, to download and
install something to replace Firefox 57 as my processor cannot meet
the demand ot the new Quantum. That was supposed to read, of the new
Quantum.

I have a windows 7 machine.

I notice someone asked for NVDA 17.4, 32-bit version link to be sent
them. I have a 64-bit machine, but notice the link said Firefox 57
Thunderbird. Yet there was a number 52.4 somewhere in the email or
request. I understand about the ESR Version, or going with Firefox 56
as an option. However, I read an article stating that unless one
downloaded previous versions by November 10, they now have to resort
to the ESR Version; the article is by one Sarah Pulis. I don't recall
the publication title, but it comes from Australia online.

I live in the US and wonder is Thunderbird something NVDA produces
that comes loaded with a user-friendly version of Mozilla for blind
users working with windows computers pre Windows 10?

Should I go to the nvaccess.org link to download the ESR version or to
Mozilla? I did see the notice posted on October 31. A link was
provided.

Finally, is there a tutorial somewhere instructing blind users on
steps to downloading and installing a program to the computer via
keyboard?

Thanks for bearing with my lengthy message.

All the Best,


--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@...
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!




Re: Options Please?

Casey <cwollner@...>
 

Hi when you go to the American link to down load this program that you sent.

It gives you an error and tells you something about that the sirtifacit isn't valid or something like that.

So you may want to look in to this.




On 11/20/2017 8:51 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what the writer of the article was saying or had in mind.  Old versions of firefox have and will continue to be available but it makes no sense to use anything other than the ESR version at this time.  Anything you saw regarding Thunderbird doesn't apply.  I don't know if it matters, but I would suggest using the 32 bit version of the ESR program.  that ensures that you wont have problems with add ons that may only run in the 32 bit version.  Also, I suspect the 32 bit version may be at least a little less demanding on processor power, though I don't know that.  There is either nothing, or nothing that matters, that you can't do with the 32 bit ESR program than with the 64 bit ESR program. 
 
This has nothing to do with NVDA.  Download the program from Mozilla. 
Here is a download link for the American version. 
And the South African version is:
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 7:51 AM
Subject: [nvda] Options Please?

Dear Group,

I am having help this evening in about 12 hours, to download and
install something to replace Firefox 57 as my processor cannot meet
the demand ot the new Quantum. That was supposed to read, of the new
Quantum.

I have a windows 7 machine.

I notice someone asked for NVDA 17.4, 32-bit version link to be sent
them. I have a 64-bit machine, but notice the link said Firefox 57
Thunderbird. Yet there was a number 52.4 somewhere in the email or
request. I understand about the ESR Version, or going with Firefox 56
as an option. However, I read an article stating that unless one
downloaded previous versions by November 10, they now have to resort
to the ESR Version; the article is by one Sarah Pulis. I don't recall
the publication title, but it comes from Australia online.

I live in the US and wonder is Thunderbird something NVDA produces
that comes loaded with a user-friendly version of Mozilla for blind
users working with windows computers pre Windows 10?

Should I go to the nvaccess.org link to download the ESR version or to
Mozilla? I did see the notice posted on October 31. A link was
provided.

Finally, is there a tutorial somewhere instructing blind users on
steps to downloading and installing a program to the computer via
keyboard?

Thanks for bearing with my lengthy message.

All the Best,


--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@...
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!



-- 

Casey


Re: Options Please?

Dan Beaver
 

Gene,


I tried using the link you gave and Chrome gave me a security warning page.  It says it isnt secure.  Are you sure that is a valid Mozilla site?


Thanks.


Dan Beaver


On 11/20/2017 9:51 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what the writer of the article was saying or had in mind.  Old versions of firefox have and will continue to be available but it makes no sense to use anything other than the ESR version at this time.  Anything you saw regarding Thunderbird doesn't apply.  I don't know if it matters, but I would suggest using the 32 bit version of the ESR program.  that ensures that you wont have problems with add ons that may only run in the 32 bit version.  Also, I suspect the 32 bit version may be at least a little less demanding on processor power, though I don't know that.  There is either nothing, or nothing that matters, that you can't do with the 32 bit ESR program than with the 64 bit ESR program. 
 
This has nothing to do with NVDA.  Download the program from Mozilla. 
Here is a download link for the American version. 
And the South African version is:
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 7:51 AM
Subject: [nvda] Options Please?

Dear Group,

I am having help this evening in about 12 hours, to download and
install something to replace Firefox 57 as my processor cannot meet
the demand ot the new Quantum. That was supposed to read, of the new
Quantum.

I have a windows 7 machine.

I notice someone asked for NVDA 17.4, 32-bit version link to be sent
them. I have a 64-bit machine, but notice the link said Firefox 57
Thunderbird. Yet there was a number 52.4 somewhere in the email or
request. I understand about the ESR Version, or going with Firefox 56
as an option. However, I read an article stating that unless one
downloaded previous versions by November 10, they now have to resort
to the ESR Version; the article is by one Sarah Pulis. I don't recall
the publication title, but it comes from Australia online.

I live in the US and wonder is Thunderbird something NVDA produces
that comes loaded with a user-friendly version of Mozilla for blind
users working with windows computers pre Windows 10?

Should I go to the nvaccess.org link to download the ESR version or to
Mozilla? I did see the notice posted on October 31. A link was
provided.

Finally, is there a tutorial somewhere instructing blind users on
steps to downloading and installing a program to the computer via
keyboard?

Thanks for bearing with my lengthy message.

All the Best,


--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@...
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!




The ribbons tutorial

Gene
 

I sent the ribbon tutorial under the subject of the thread in which it was being discussed.  Here is the same tutorial sent again, for those who may not be following the other thread.  It is under my signature.
 
Gene
I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons. 
 
I've added a little to it here.
 
I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10 but this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or any other ribbons, and see how things are organized. 
 
First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button. 
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example. 
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus. 
 
So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If you think about this, it makes sense.  If you are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.  So you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.  In a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right arrowing will move you to the next item in the tool bar.  So you down arrow when on the split button to cause it to display more options.  But some tool bars run up and down the screen, as menus do.  And at times, you may not be sure which way a structure extends on screen.  So, as I said, if you are not sure or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display more options.  Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow. 
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.
 
Now, to ribbons themselves.
 
Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.  There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.
 
Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.  Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine.  Wordpad provides a good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.  
 
The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc. 
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.
 
For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.  
 
Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon. 
 
In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.  Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow. 
 
Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.
 
Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item. 
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.
 
Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.
 
Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.  Now, open the ribbons again with alt. 
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.  Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action.  When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as.  Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.
 
Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu. 
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.  You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon. 
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly. 
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through. 
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back. 
 
Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it. 
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category. 
 
Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.