Date   

Re: firefox question

Clare Page <clare.page@...>
 

Hi!
It's not true that the browser won't work if you don't use the version with the samed bits, so to speak. I have used 32-bit Firefox on this 64-bit Windows 7 computer for a long time and it has worked well. It's possible that 64-bit programs won't work on 32-bit computers, but I can't test that. In the case of Firefox, I've never tried the 64-bit version, partly because I kept updating my 32-bit version to avoid having to do a complete reinstall, partly because some posts on this list have said that 64-bit Firefox doesn't always work as well as 32-bit. I use plenty of other 32-bit programs on this computer which also work fine.
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Darren Tomblin
Sent: mardi 21 novembre 2017 00:59
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox question

i'm asking because some people have been saying on here that if the bit versions are different the broswer won't work.


On 11/20/2017 6:50 PM, JM Casey wrote:
You have a choice whether you want the 64 or 32 bit version. If you completely remove your copy, there won't be anything to automatically update anyway, so you can just go to Mozilla and download the version of the browser you want.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Darren Tomblin
Sent: November 20, 2017 6:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] firefox question

hi, I have a question asbout firefox. I currently have fiefox 56 32-bit running on a windows 10 64-bit computer. If I completely remove my current version and install a new copy will I get a 64-bit version.
i'm wondering this because I don't want to lose access to another browser since I can't get ie11 to work with nvda. thanks

--
73,
Darren Tomblin(KC9JJJ)







--
73,
Darren Tomblin(KC9JJJ)


A few comments on recent threads

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

1. tutorials. Several issues here, where are they, are they up to date, who is doing them and in what format are they?

I'd suggest if anyone wants to do audio ones the first thing to do is to use a slowed down voice. As we are talking to people starting out, it takes time and maybe even never will get to a point where they can hear as fast as you do. Also the voice should be something understandable and something available in all flavours of windows with no additional downloads.
Do not assume anything, and be clear about the intention when you are demonstrating things.
Of course it gets more complicated if you are also talking about tutorials in other languages than English, and sometimes the demo will need to be significantly different given the complexity of none Latin based languages.
2 Ribbons, the eternal war of words on these has broken out yet again.
To my mind there will always be this problem. Some are simply not able to grasp the conventions, and I hold my hands up to being in this group. The best course I think is to simply point people at explanations and files to maybe try to make them go away wherever you can for those like me who are obviously thick in this area! Certainly lets not argue about them ad infinitum every couple of months.

3. Bugs you think you have discovered in nvda.
Firstly ask here, it could be a bug or it could be an issue with the machine or software on it. Once you have exhausted the alternatives, at least try to get an account on github. (Is there a tutorial for this too?) and report your findings there.Although some developers do watch here, they can miss things just posted here amongst the noise of everyday queries. If you cannot actually figure out the issues reporting section of Github, and it can be a bit daunting if you do not use online forms a lot, then subscribe to one of the lists such as the developers one. These seem to be all listed with their subscription details on the nv access web site. Then if you are baffled by github, and it being a relatively low traffic list, ask somebody to help you report it there. Do not clutter that list with questions or crospost the posts here over there though, as they will not be as tolerant of it as it seems they are here.
Always read up on an issue first if you can.
4. Testing nvda new features. In the main for most who just want to use nvda, then use the release version, but always have a back up portable version that you can run in an emergency from a keyboard shortcut.
This is especially needed if you want to test snapshot builds, and RC releases, of course as if there are bugs its far easier to reboot to a known good version and them try to figure out what went wrong!
Remember, next snaps are very much untested ideas, Master are beta releases and mostly work but occasionally do contain regressions that can trap the unwary. RC release candidate builds come in two flavours. Thos on the snapshot pages which are basically the same as the release but still contain error sounds enabled and those often flagged up in messages to the various lists which are more or less full versions complete with error sounds removed.

5. If somebody here annoys you. go and take a walk before writing any reply to the list. Often the words may sound critical or harsh, but most often this is because of the lack of human intonation. it might be slightly sarcastic or just a joke. Best ignored if its obviously badly meant, as flame wars can occur and nobody wins.
Debate is fine but if you are not willing to listen then don't bother getting involved.

6. On a personal note, although I do try to read back through the days messages and make one reply, I am often thwarted by the time warp in email delivery from mailing lists, which can delay things by up to a day, meaning one has to reply again to take account of new info. This is not uncommon so don't jump on people unless its clear they are responding to each and every message in a thread all the time. always read back a bit in the list before posting a question, as it could well be that its been asked before.this is evident in the many threads on at the moment about Firefox 57, craptum.
grin. I suppose we all make mistakes and do not add to threads or indeed not change the sub line when the meaning alters.
Anyway, just needed to say some stuff, I'm off for a lie down now.
Brian



bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


Re: firefox question

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

You can obviously force it to download what you like but the 64 in the link seemed a bit of a giveaway, and he already stated he had a 64 bit system and was pointed to the 32 bi5t one for reliability.
It has been my experience that this is the case at least for us blind folk. I had all manner of issues with the 64 bit one.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher-Mark Gilland" <clgilland07@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox question


No, not if you're on a 32 bit system. It should then download the X86 version instead.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575
----- Original Message -----
From: Darren Tomblin
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 6:35 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox question


hi, I have a question asbout firefox. I currently have fiefox 56
32-bit running on a windows 10 64-bit computer. If I completely remove
my current version and install a new copy will I get a 64-bit version.
i'm wondering this because I don't want to lose access to another
browser since I can't get ie11 to work with nvda. thanks

--
73,
Darren Tomblin(KC9JJJ)


Re: FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


You would not want to much off those menus if they were in the help section only the relevant stuff. there is also under the add on manager a button that takes you to the add on page so will not be needed in the help menus. Really if you look at the other 2 screen readers windows eyes and jaws you will get the idea of what would go there.


Why would a new user of nvda need source code etc there they would not in those menus


but if referring to the website just see how it is sorted.


gene nz



On 11/21/2017 6:31 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Well not just newby info advanced stuff, even some of the dev information or where to go.

Now I know if you know where you are going then you know where to go but I'd like a centralised location for every document and maybe a faq.

In the old days before it fell out of updates, the hafaq was part of the old hal users list and had all the questions we the users asked especially the ones that angered the mods so much.

It was supposed to be upgraded but eventually those that maintained it left to do other tasks and no one came forward to replace them so it was never done.

It wasn't just user questions, it went into what a dll was, where the dolphin, orpheus and hal names originated etc a lot of usefull info and a lot of useless info for entertainment.

It didn't last long but it was a nice document.

So for us all the basic to advanced to dev, to whatever, tutorials manuals, reviews,, the program accessibility list of things that work with nvda.

A list of all the speech synths updated or links to usefull resources, the list goes on.




On 21/11/2017 2:29 p.m., Cristóbal wrote:
This is one of the complaints often heard about NVDA. More so for folks who want to dip their toes into this screen reader. Better/well organized access to support info such as this would likely make the newbie experience go a whole lot smoother. Not to mention appreciated by everyone as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi Quentin,
Any thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:05 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi.

It seems to me with all the drama going on on here that a few things need to happen.

Firstly if there isn't a tutorials page on the nvda wiki maybe it needs to be visible, maybe as part of the support page  or download page or even main pages you should have links to the user guide, audio demos of features, audio and text tutorials maybe some sort of faq to.

It would really cut down on all the drama on here if someone wants to fine a tutorial that we can give a centralised location where all links to tutorials on and off site are placed.

Its only a suggestion, I am unsure how to make it a formal proposal but it would be a good way to make most of this stuff go away and would be generally good.

If this stuff exists deep down somewhere maybe it could be brought together somewhere and if someone has a lot of it somewhere else then it should be linked in this central location to.












.






--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: NVDA tablet, touchscreen access

Adriani Botez
 

Hello,


You can ofcourse use it by touch gestures.
You can find in your NVDA menu / help, all keystrokes for laptop and desktop layout as well as all gesture which correspond to the functions of the keystrokes.
And there is an addon called enhanced touch gestures. You should install it. It brings you much more productivity.

Best
Adriani


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 21.11.2017 um 07:10 schrieb David Mehler <dave.mehler@gmail.com>:

Hello,

I'm not sure if this is a win10 question, a tablet question, or an
NVDA question.

I've got win10 1709 on a tablet, and have NVDA 2017.3 installed on it.
I am wanting to know how/if it's possible to use the touchscreen
without the keyboard so if I detach the keyboard I can still use the
tablet.

Thanks.
Dave.



NVDA tablet, touchscreen access

David Mehler
 

Hello,

I'm not sure if this is a win10 question, a tablet question, or an
NVDA question.

I've got win10 1709 on a tablet, and have NVDA 2017.3 installed on it.
I am wanting to know how/if it's possible to use the touchscreen
without the keyboard so if I detach the keyboard I can still use the
tablet.

Thanks.
Dave.


Re: FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

 

Well off the top of my head.

All the scattered user tutorials that are scattered about for start, edge, ribbons, all the extra junk that is loaded here  in usefull but useless non linked and easy loosable content without a big search that is.

A place to link directly to the shop to buy guides like the 22 point win10 guide, the nvda training guide, the addon dev guide.

Resources for devs, resources for users.

The accessibility programs list, the list of speech and braille devices.

The addons repo or repos that are good.

There is probably more information and such, maybe a history of the reader and the nvaccess itself.

There is probably more that I can add, but that will do for now.

On 21/11/2017 6:31 p.m., Gene New Zealand wrote:
Hi


I guess maybe i might have to do some re linking sooner or later off my main pages. Hopefully not over the christmas period


I was hoping a long while back some thing like that might of been done but i think now maybe a ticket might of had to be done.



I just looked under our own help menu there to see how it can be re shuffled.


Food for thought for the community and the project what material would go there as pointing people in the right direction.


Will it happen i would vote yes but see what others say plus the project.


Gene nz





On 11/21/2017 3:10 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Gene and everyone,

An FAQ that automatically gets sent to new members on the list with answers to some of these questions is a good idea (if one doesn't exist already, I must admit, I joined awhile ago and can't recall). Maybe a link to it in the signature?

Re the web site, as many know, we are in a process which has ended up being longer than anticipated, of refreshing the site, or basically rolling out a whole new site, and once that is live or available to preview, I'll be sure to post here to get your feedback on it.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com<mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>> wrote:
This is a long message containing my suggestions for organizing the web site for the benefit of new or not very knowledgeable users. There may be a little repetition about how to find or get certain information but that may be helpful to those looking.

I haven't looked at the web site to any extent for awhile but the last time I looked, I thought it was poorly organized. It should be very clear how to get important kinds of information from the home page, including a link to the extra voices page, sihnce, like it or not, the default voice is one of the things many people strongly object to and want to change immediately, a link to a discussion of how to use the built-in Windows Voices so that those who want to do so may do so as soon after installation as possible. a link to some sort of tutorial collection, such as the other Gene's, and a link to an NVDA tutorial such as Joseph Lees, a link to the add ons page, and a link to the support page with the explanation that information about how to join a users' group is available on that page.
There may be other things that should be there but those are the things that come to mind.

I said that these links should be on the home page, but if that is undesirable, there could be something like a link on the home page that says something like information for beginners and, when this link is followed, information such as I've discussed would be in that section.

Also, those switching to NVDA often have a certain number of specific questions that are repeated by a lot of people who are trying NVDA on lists. It might be a good idea to have one distinct article for beginners with answers to a small number of very common questions such as how do I shut down NVDA, how to I get to the user manual, how do I change the voice and the voice speed and other parameters, and, although I don't recall seeing this asked, where is there a list of keyboard commands.

I would also suggest giving a link to the User Guide online so that those who want to look at it with their old screen-reader may do so and not have to be using NVDA and getting used to it at the same time as looking at the first few sections of the user Guide.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal<mailto:crismunoz54@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 7:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

This is one of the complaints often heard about NVDA. More so for folks who want to dip their toes into this screen reader. Better/well organized access to support info such as this would likely make the newbie experience go a whole lot smoother. Not to mention appreciated by everyone as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi Quentin,
Any thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io<mailto:win10@win10.groups.io> [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io<mailto:win10@win10.groups.io>] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:05 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io<mailto:win10@win10.groups.io>
Subject: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi.

It seems to me with all the drama going on on here that a few things need to happen.

Firstly if there isn't a tutorials page on the nvda wiki maybe it needs to be visible, maybe as part of the support page or download page or even main pages you should have links to the user guide, audio demos of features, audio and text tutorials maybe some sort of faq to.

It would really cut down on all the drama on here if someone wants to fine a tutorial that we can give a centralised location where all links to tutorials on and off site are placed.

Its only a suggestion, I am unsure how to make it a formal proposal but it would be a good way to make most of this stuff go away and would be generally good.

If this stuff exists deep down somewhere maybe it could be brought together somewhere and if someone has a lot of it somewhere else then it should be linked in this central location to.















--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org<http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


--
[Image NVDA certified expert]
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

 

Well a faq was the suggestion I put, but this was in the old days before you really had much choice, a link to information properly indexed and marked up and updated would be fine.

Also the ability to download bits of the info for offline viewing and maybe a zip with all the information or bits of the information depending on what is chosen.

Again suggestions.

Its just something does need doing, to often I have seen lists enter what was a usefull topic then degrade into a useless topic, in the middle people bitterly complain about what are probably justified at the time but degenerate into well mud slinging etc.

Eventually on other lists I have been on the worst trouble makers are banned, the list guidelines are rewritten with more blocked words on them, the subject is never properly resolved.

Eventually it gets so bad that people like me rage quit the lists or if I don't or we don't the lists die themselves.

It seems that there are opertunities that shouldn't be missed here is all.

The last mud sling did actually generate some good reason to moan, and the fact is we have a chance to address these where we can.

As for the website I honestly havn't visited the thing or read to much into it, but if people says things need to be done I will believe it, the addons and the main download page as well as some of the wikis for synths I visit but I havn't needed to look at that site for ages now.

On 21/11/2017 3:23 p.m., Gene wrote:
I don't know of such a FAQ, but rather than have a FAQ and separate information on the web site, I think the information should be on the web site and a link be given in a welcome message with an explanation of the kinds of information available on the page.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 8:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials


Hi Gene and everyone,


An FAQ that automatically gets sent to new members on the list with answers to some of these questions is a good idea (if one doesn't exist already, I must admit, I joined awhile ago and can't recall). Maybe a link to it in the signature?


Re the web site, as many know, we are in a process which has ended up being longer than anticipated, of refreshing the site, or basically rolling out a whole new site, and once that is live or available to preview, I'll be sure to post here to get your feedback on it.


On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

This is a long message containing my suggestions for organizing the web site for the benefit of new or not very knowledgeable users. There may be a little repetition about how to find or get certain information but that may be helpful to those looking.

I haven't looked at the web site to any extent for awhile but the last time I looked, I thought it was poorly organized. It should be very clear how to get important kinds of information from the home page, including a link to the extra voices page, sihnce, like it or not, the default voice is one of the things many people strongly object to and want to change immediately, a link to a discussion of how to use the built-in Windows Voices so that those who want to do so may do so as soon after installation as possible. a link to some sort of tutorial collection, such as the other Gene's, and a link to an NVDA tutorial such as Joseph Lees, a link to the add ons page, and a link to the support page with the explanation that information about how to join a users' group is available on that page.

There may be other things that should be there but those are the things that come to mind.

I said that these links should be on the home page, but if that is undesirable, there could be something like a link on the home page that says something like information for beginners and, when this link is followed, information such as I've discussed would be in that section.

Also, those switching to NVDA often have a certain number of specific questions that are repeated by a lot of people who are trying NVDA on lists. It might be a good idea to have one distinct article for beginners with answers to a small number of very common questions such as how do I shut down NVDA, how to I get to the user manual, how do I change the voice and the voice speed and other parameters, and, although I don't recall seeing this asked, where is there a list of keyboard commands.

I would also suggest giving a link to the User Guide online so that those who want to look at it with their old screen-reader may do so and not have to be using NVDA and getting used to it at the same time as looking at the first few sections of the user Guide.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 7:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials


This is one of the complaints often heard about NVDA. More so for folks who want to dip their toes into this screen reader. Better/well organized access to support info such as this would likely make the newbie experience go a whole lot smoother. Not to mention appreciated by everyone as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi Quentin,
Any thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:05 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi.

It seems to me with all the drama going on on here that a few things need to happen.

Firstly if there isn't a tutorials page on the nvda wiki maybe it needs to be visible, maybe as part of the support page or download page or even main pages you should have links to the user guide, audio demos of features, audio and text tutorials maybe some sort of faq to.

It would really cut down on all the drama on here if someone wants to fine a tutorial that we can give a centralised location where all links to tutorials on and off site are placed.

Its only a suggestion, I am unsure how to make it a formal proposal but it would be a good way to make most of this stuff go away and would be generally good.

If this stuff exists deep down somewhere maybe it could be brought together somewhere and if someone has a lot of it somewhere else then it should be linked in this central location to.




















Re: FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

 

I object to beeing sent a faq, a link to download a faq fine, the issue with this is once I have read the guidelines or any reminders unless I actually need them they usually are junked /deleted.

As a user I really would prefur something other than an extra email which I will find not usefull to me and then delete.

On 21/11/2017 3:10 p.m., Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Gene and everyone,

An FAQ that automatically gets sent to new members on the list with answers
to some of these questions is a good idea (if one doesn't exist already, I
must admit, I joined awhile ago and can't recall). Maybe a link to it in
the signature?

Re the web site, as many know, we are in a process which has ended up being
longer than anticipated, of refreshing the site, or basically rolling out a
whole new site, and once that is live or available to preview, I'll be sure
to post here to get your feedback on it.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

This is a long message containing my suggestions for organizing the web
site for the benefit of new or not very knowledgeable users. There may be
a little repetition about how to find or get certain information but that
may be helpful to those looking.

I haven't looked at the web site to any extent for awhile but the last
time I looked, I thought it was poorly organized. It should be very clear
how to get important kinds of information from the home page, including a
link to the extra voices page, sihnce, like it or not, the default voice is
one of the things many people strongly object to and want to change
immediately, a link to a discussion of how to use the built-in Windows
Voices so that those who want to do so may do so as soon after installation
as possible. a link to some sort of tutorial collection, such as the other
Gene's, and a link to an NVDA tutorial such as Joseph Lees, a link to the
add ons page, and a link to the support page with the explanation that
information about how to join a users' group is available on that page.
There may be other things that should be there but those are the things
that come to mind.

I said that these links should be on the home page, but if that is
undesirable, there could be something like a link on the home page that
says something like information for beginners and, when this link is
followed, information such as I've discussed would be in that section.

Also, those switching to NVDA often have a certain number of specific
questions that are repeated by a lot of people who are trying NVDA on
lists. It might be a good idea to have one distinct article for beginners
with answers to a small number of very common questions such as how do I
shut down NVDA, how to I get to the user manual, how do I change the voice
and the voice speed and other parameters, and, although I don't recall
seeing this asked, where is there a list of keyboard commands.

I would also suggest giving a link to the User Guide online so that those
who want to look at it with their old screen-reader may do so and not have
to be using NVDA and getting used to it at the same time as looking at the
first few sections of the user Guide.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Cristóbal <crismunoz54@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 7:29 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

This is one of the complaints often heard about NVDA. More so for folks
who want to dip their toes into this screen reader. Better/well organized
access to support info such as this would likely make the newbie experience
go a whole lot smoother. Not to mention appreciated by everyone as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi Quentin,
Any thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:05 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi.

It seems to me with all the drama going on on here that a few things need
to happen.

Firstly if there isn't a tutorials page on the nvda wiki maybe it needs to
be visible, maybe as part of the support page or download page or even
main pages you should have links to the user guide, audio demos of
features, audio and text tutorials maybe some sort of faq to.

It would really cut down on all the drama on here if someone wants to fine
a tutorial that we can give a centralised location where all links to
tutorials on and off site are placed.

Its only a suggestion, I am unsure how to make it a formal proposal but it
would be a good way to make most of this stuff go away and would be
generally good.

If this stuff exists deep down somewhere maybe it could be brought
together somewhere and if someone has a lot of it somewhere else then it
should be linked in this central location to.















Re: FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

 

Well not just newby info advanced stuff, even some of the dev information or where to go.

Now I know if you know where you are going then you know where to go but I'd like a centralised location for every document and maybe a faq.

In the old days before it fell out of updates, the hafaq was part of the old hal users list and had all the questions we the users asked especially the ones that angered the mods so much.

It was supposed to be upgraded but eventually those that maintained it left to do other tasks and no one came forward to replace them so it was never done.

It wasn't just user questions, it went into what a dll was, where the dolphin, orpheus and hal names originated etc a lot of usefull info and a lot of useless info for entertainment.

It didn't last long but it was a nice document.

So for us all the basic to advanced to dev, to whatever, tutorials manuals, reviews,, the program accessibility list of things that work with nvda.

A list of all the speech synths updated or links to usefull resources, the list goes on.

On 21/11/2017 2:29 p.m., Cristóbal wrote:
This is one of the complaints often heard about NVDA. More so for folks who want to dip their toes into this screen reader. Better/well organized access to support info such as this would likely make the newbie experience go a whole lot smoother. Not to mention appreciated by everyone as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi Quentin,
Any thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:05 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi.

It seems to me with all the drama going on on here that a few things need to happen.

Firstly if there isn't a tutorials page on the nvda wiki maybe it needs to be visible, maybe as part of the support page or download page or even main pages you should have links to the user guide, audio demos of features, audio and text tutorials maybe some sort of faq to.

It would really cut down on all the drama on here if someone wants to fine a tutorial that we can give a centralised location where all links to tutorials on and off site are placed.

Its only a suggestion, I am unsure how to make it a formal proposal but it would be a good way to make most of this stuff go away and would be generally good.

If this stuff exists deep down somewhere maybe it could be brought together somewhere and if someone has a lot of it somewhere else then it should be linked in this central location to.











.


Re: FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


I guess maybe i might have to do some re linking sooner or later off my main pages. Hopefully not over the christmas period


I was hoping a long while back some thing like that might of been done but i think now maybe a ticket might of had to be done.



I just looked under our own help menu there to see how it can be re shuffled.


Food for thought for the community and the project what material would go there as pointing people in the right direction.


Will it happen i would vote yes but see what others say plus the project.


Gene nz



 


On 11/21/2017 3:10 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Gene and everyone,

An FAQ that automatically gets sent to new members on the list with answers to some of these questions is a good idea (if one doesn't exist already, I must admit, I joined awhile ago and can't recall).  Maybe a link to it in the signature?

Re the web site, as many know, we are in a process which has ended up being longer than anticipated, of refreshing the site, or basically rolling out a whole new site, and once that is live or available to preview, I'll be sure to post here to get your feedback on it.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
This is a long message containing my suggestions for organizing the web site for the benefit of new or not very knowledgeable users.  There may be a little repetition about how to find or get certain information but that may be helpful to those looking.
 
I haven't looked at the web site to any extent for awhile but the last time I looked, I thought it was poorly organized.  It should be very clear how to get important kinds of information from the home page, including a link to the extra voices page, sihnce, like it or not, the default voice is one of the things many people strongly object to and want to change immediately, a link to a discussion of how to use the built-in Windows Voices so that those who want to do so may do so as soon after installation as possible. a link to some sort of tutorial collection, such as the other Gene's, and a link to an NVDA tutorial such as Joseph Lees, a link to the add ons page, and a link to the support page with the explanation that information about how to join a users' group is available on that page. 
There may be other things that should be there but those are the things that come to mind.
 
I said that these links should be on the home page, but if that is undesirable, there could be something like a link on the home page that says something like information for beginners and, when this link is followed, information such as I've discussed would be in that section.
 
Also, those switching to NVDA often have a certain number of specific questions that are repeated by a lot of people who are trying NVDA on lists.  It might be a good idea to have one distinct article for beginners with answers to a small number of very common questions such as how do I shut down NVDA, how to I get to the user manual, how do I change the voice and the voice speed and other parameters, and, although I don't recall seeing this asked, where is there a list of keyboard commands. 
 
I would also suggest giving a link to the User Guide online so that those who want to look at it with their old screen-reader may do so and not have to be using NVDA and getting used to it at the same time as looking at the first few sections of the user Guide.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

This is one of the complaints often heard about NVDA. More so for folks who want to dip their toes into this screen reader. Better/well organized access to support info such as this would likely make the newbie experience go a whole lot smoother. Not to mention appreciated by everyone as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi Quentin,
Any thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:05 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi.

It seems to me with all the drama going on on here that a few things need to happen.

Firstly if there isn't a tutorials page on the nvda wiki maybe it needs to be visible, maybe as part of the support page  or download page or even main pages you should have links to the user guide, audio demos of features, audio and text tutorials maybe some sort of faq to.

It would really cut down on all the drama on here if someone wants to fine a tutorial that we can give a centralised location where all links to tutorials on and off site are placed.

Its only a suggestion, I am unsure how to make it a formal proposal but it would be a good way to make most of this stuff go away and would be generally good.

If this stuff exists deep down somewhere maybe it could be brought together somewhere and if someone has a lot of it somewhere else then it should be linked in this central location to.















--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

 

Thanks for the forward joseph wasn't sure where appropriate things should go, figured if you got it on one list well.

On 21/11/2017 2:07 p.m., Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi Quentin,
Any thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:05 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi.

It seems to me with all the drama going on on here that a few things need to happen.

Firstly if there isn't a tutorials page on the nvda wiki maybe it needs to be visible, maybe as part of the support page or download page or even main pages you should have links to the user guide, audio demos of features, audio and text tutorials maybe some sort of faq to.

It would really cut down on all the drama on here if someone wants to fine a tutorial that we can give a centralised location where all links to tutorials on and off site are placed.

Its only a suggestion, I am unsure how to make it a formal proposal but it would be a good way to make most of this stuff go away and would be generally good.

If this stuff exists deep down somewhere maybe it could be brought together somewhere and if someone has a lot of it somewhere else then it should be linked in this central location to.







.


Re: FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi

I just had a look at another screen reader  and i think it would be the same for the second. The first screen reader under the help section had a section called documentation and a sub menu off that for the user manual, readme and training resources.

I have not the other screen reader installed but guess it will be a similar idea.

I as a user would rather be pointed in the right direction for resources etc which makes sense coming from the nvda screen readder its self.

so like under the help section there could be the user manual, maybe the whats new, a link to the training material or the shop as it is called., the guides people have done on the wicki page. Maybe even the FAQ wicki I did also see there was a part there for remote help but in that case they had the application there where we do not.


But you get the idea.

Part of the reason i put in those sections that i linked to my website was to make it easier for others to find the same material where it probably is harder to find at present.

I know where some of it is or most.

I was thinking even a link to the email user lists as well to join.

I guess if it was part of nvda i guess when i look at the numbers of nvda users over 45 thousand max and still going up that is alot of people to point in the right direction if needed.


Gene nz
  

On 11/21/2017 3:10 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Gene and everyone,

An FAQ that automatically gets sent to new members on the list with answers to some of these questions is a good idea (if one doesn't exist already, I must admit, I joined awhile ago and can't recall).  Maybe a link to it in the signature?

Re the web site, as many know, we are in a process which has ended up being longer than anticipated, of refreshing the site, or basically rolling out a whole new site, and once that is live or available to preview, I'll be sure to post here to get your feedback on it.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
This is a long message containing my suggestions for organizing the web site for the benefit of new or not very knowledgeable users.  There may be a little repetition about how to find or get certain information but that may be helpful to those looking.
 
I haven't looked at the web site to any extent for awhile but the last time I looked, I thought it was poorly organized.  It should be very clear how to get important kinds of information from the home page, including a link to the extra voices page, sihnce, like it or not, the default voice is one of the things many people strongly object to and want to change immediately, a link to a discussion of how to use the built-in Windows Voices so that those who want to do so may do so as soon after installation as possible. a link to some sort of tutorial collection, such as the other Gene's, and a link to an NVDA tutorial such as Joseph Lees, a link to the add ons page, and a link to the support page with the explanation that information about how to join a users' group is available on that page. 
There may be other things that should be there but those are the things that come to mind.
 
I said that these links should be on the home page, but if that is undesirable, there could be something like a link on the home page that says something like information for beginners and, when this link is followed, information such as I've discussed would be in that section.
 
Also, those switching to NVDA often have a certain number of specific questions that are repeated by a lot of people who are trying NVDA on lists.  It might be a good idea to have one distinct article for beginners with answers to a small number of very common questions such as how do I shut down NVDA, how to I get to the user manual, how do I change the voice and the voice speed and other parameters, and, although I don't recall seeing this asked, where is there a list of keyboard commands. 
 
I would also suggest giving a link to the User Guide online so that those who want to look at it with their old screen-reader may do so and not have to be using NVDA and getting used to it at the same time as looking at the first few sections of the user Guide.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

This is one of the complaints often heard about NVDA. More so for folks who want to dip their toes into this screen reader. Better/well organized access to support info such as this would likely make the newbie experience go a whole lot smoother. Not to mention appreciated by everyone as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi Quentin,
Any thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:05 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi.

It seems to me with all the drama going on on here that a few things need to happen.

Firstly if there isn't a tutorials page on the nvda wiki maybe it needs to be visible, maybe as part of the support page  or download page or even main pages you should have links to the user guide, audio demos of features, audio and text tutorials maybe some sort of faq to.

It would really cut down on all the drama on here if someone wants to fine a tutorial that we can give a centralised location where all links to tutorials on and off site are placed.

Its only a suggestion, I am unsure how to make it a formal proposal but it would be a good way to make most of this stuff go away and would be generally good.

If this stuff exists deep down somewhere maybe it could be brought together somewhere and if someone has a lot of it somewhere else then it should be linked in this central location to.















--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


I can see what i have done. There were 2 unnamed files on the desktop with pretty much the same file name and named the wrong file.


The other file was for ripping cdes with windows media player 12 which is the one that got sent with the wrong file name. any how it is renamed and that file was most probably going up there along with a written tutorial.


the file now named correctly is https://www.dropbox.com/s/hjym0u6nzgyqpgl/navigating%20ribbons%20in%20word%20pad.MP3?dl=0

hopefully all the bases got covered.


Gene nz

 


On 11/21/2017 4:02 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

I noticed that too.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA

 

Gene

 

The link you gave is incorrect, or the file you sent to Drop Box and linked to is not correct.  It is about ripping with Media Player.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 3:45 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA

 

Hi guys

 

If you are interested I have just done a quick audio tutorial on navigating ribbons in word pad. Hopefully it gives you a rough idea on navigating the ribbons in word pad. It is the same idea for other parts of windows. there will also be another written tutorial from the other Gene going up to the website later on tonight.

I will let the list know when they are posted any how.

 

The page they will go to now which may make more sence is nvda tutorials learning the basics instead of nvda tutorials for other programs page.

 

The audio tutorial i will post now to the list and hopefully you can follow ok.

 

 

The link to the drop box account is https://www.dropbox.com/s/enl013uq5rwvxbo/navigating%20ribbons%20in%20wordpad.MP3?dl=0

Hopefully i covered what you need to know.

You will just need to know some of the basics of interacting with buttons etc.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 11/21/2017 3:57 AM, Gene wrote:

Here is the ribbon tutorial, below my signature.

 

Gene

 

I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons. 

 

I've added a little to it here.

 

I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10 but this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or any other ribbons, and see how things are organized. 

 

First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button. 
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example. 
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus. 

 

So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If you think about this, it makes sense.  If you are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.  So you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.  In a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right arrowing will move you to the next item in the tool bar.  So you down arrow when on the split button to cause it to display more options.  But some tool bars run up and down the screen, as menus do.  And at times, you may not be sure which way a structure extends on screen.  So, as I said, if you are not sure or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display more options.  Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow. 
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.

 

Now, to ribbons themselves.

 

Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.  There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.

 

Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.  Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine.  Wordpad provides a good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.  

 

The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc. 
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.

 

For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.  

 

Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon. 

 

In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.  Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow. 

 

Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.

 

Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item. 
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.

 

Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.

 

Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.  Now, open the ribbons again with alt. 
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.  Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action.  When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as.  Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.

 

Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu. 
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.  You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon. 
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly. 
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through. 
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back. 

 

Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it. 
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category. 

 

Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.  

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I noticed that too.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA

 

Gene

 

The link you gave is incorrect, or the file you sent to Drop Box and linked to is not correct.  It is about ripping with Media Player.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 3:45 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA

 

Hi guys

 

If you are interested I have just done a quick audio tutorial on navigating ribbons in word pad. Hopefully it gives you a rough idea on navigating the ribbons in word pad. It is the same idea for other parts of windows. there will also be another written tutorial from the other Gene going up to the website later on tonight.

I will let the list know when they are posted any how.

 

The page they will go to now which may make more sence is nvda tutorials learning the basics instead of nvda tutorials for other programs page.

 

The audio tutorial i will post now to the list and hopefully you can follow ok.

 

 

The link to the drop box account is https://www.dropbox.com/s/enl013uq5rwvxbo/navigating%20ribbons%20in%20wordpad.MP3?dl=0

Hopefully i covered what you need to know.

You will just need to know some of the basics of interacting with buttons etc.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 11/21/2017 3:57 AM, Gene wrote:

Here is the ribbon tutorial, below my signature.

 

Gene

 

I'll provide a brief tutorial based on what I wrote years ago of how to work with ribbons. 

 

I've added a little to it here.

 

I don't know how the organization of Windows has changed in Windows 10 but this description should allow you to look through the Windows ribbons, or any other ribbons, and see how things are organized. 

 

First, I'll discuss a structure found in later versions of Windows that you need to know about-- the split button. 
One thing you will see as you look around ribbons and in other places in Windows are split buttons. A split button often allows you to see more options than just the default action.  Let's take an example. 
Let's say you come across a split button that says shut down Windows.  If you press enter on that button, Windows will shut down.  That is the default action.  Split buttons often show more options if you either right arrow while on the button or down arrow.  As an example, if you are on the shut down split button, you can right arrow and a list of options will open.  the items in the list include sleep, hibernate, restart, and others.  You up or down arrow through the list or use the short cut commands you hear announced as you move through the list.  the letter shortcuts often take actions without pressing enter so be careful when using them, just as you are in menus. 

 

So, let's review.  You find a split button that says shut down.  If you press enter, the computer will shut down. If you right arrow, other options may be displayed.  Or if you down arrow, other options may be displayed.  A split button won't work with both methods.  One method, either right arrowing or down arrowing will do so if it can be done with the button.  Try both methods if you don't know which one might work.  If you are on a tool bar which extends across the screen from left to right, down arrowing will open additional options.  If you think about this, it makes sense.  If you are in a menu, down arrowing will move you to the next item in the menu.  So you right arrow on the split button to cause it to display more options.  In a tool bar that extends across the screen from left to right, right arrowing will move you to the next item in the tool bar.  So you down arrow when on the split button to cause it to display more options.  But some tool bars run up and down the screen, as menus do.  And at times, you may not be sure which way a structure extends on screen.  So, as I said, if you are not sure or don't know, try both methods of causing the split button to display more options.  Often, one of them will work. If you open the options a split button offers and don't want to work with them, arrow in the opposite direction to move out of them.  For example, if you right arrowed to open more options, left arrow. 
Some split buttons don't do anything when you right arrow or down arrow.  In that case, open them with alt down arrow.  Then tab through the additional options.  I've almost never worked in this way with split buttons but if you want to close a split button, try alt up arrow if you've used alt down arrow to open it.

 

Now, to ribbons themselves.

 

Regarding ribbons, much of the complaining about them is not warranted if you understand how they work and how to use short cut commands effectively and efficiently.  and I would strongly recommend against using the JAWS virtual menus, no matter what the JAWS training material says about ribbons being difficult to use.  the training material is just plain wrong and using virtual menus, you will be unnecessarily dependent on one screen-reader.  There are other disadvantages to using them which I won't go into here.

 

Try looking at ribbons and doing what is described below in wordpad.  Everyone with Windows 7 has Wordpad on their machine.  Wordpad provides a good environment to look at and practice working with ribbons.  

 

The essence of working with ribbons is this:
Press alt to move to the upper ribbon.
You will probably be on an item that says home tab. Items on the upper ribbon are announced as tabs such as home tab, view tab, etc. 
To see what ribbons are available, right or left arrow repeatedly to move through the ribbons.  Move in one
direction to move through all of them, just as you would to move through all the menus.

 

For this demonstration, just so we are all doing the same thing, move with the right arrow. When you get back to where you started, you can keep right arrowing to move through the items again, if you wish.  You can move through all the items as many times as you want. Or you can move with the left arrow whenever you want to move in the opposite direction.  

 

Stop on view.  Then start tabbing.  You will move through all items in what is called the lower ribbon that are in the view ribbon. 

 

In other words you tab to see the items in a ribbon once you move to it.  Tab moves you forward through the items, shift tab moves you backword.
So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow. 

 

Many items in the lower ribbon are buttons.  Use either the space bar or enter to activate the button. You may find a button that opens a menu and if you press enter or the space bar, you will then be in a menu.

 

Each time you move to an item, you will hear the short cut command to work with that item. 
But JAWS has a bug and you often won't.  To hear the short cut, use the command JAWS key tab.  If you are using the default JAWS key, it is either insert.

 

Try tabbing to an item in a Wordpad ribbon and using the command insert tab.  You will hear some extraneous information.  The last thing you will hear is the short cut sequence.  You can repeat the information by repeating the command as often as you want.

 

Let's look at an item which is usually called the application menu.  Return to the main program window in wordpad by closing the ribbons.  You can either press escape repeatedly, if necessary, or you can press alt once.  Now, open the ribbons again with alt. 
Start right arrowing until you get to the application menu.
You will hear application menu and then something like button drop down grid.  Never mind drop down grid.  It's a description you don't have to worry about.  The important things are that you are on a button and at the application menu.  Press enter or the space bar to activate the button.  Activating the button opens the menu.  Start down arrowing. you will hear all the short cut commands necessary to open an item or take an action.  When you got to the menu item, you heard alt f.  When you open the menu and move through it, you will hear all the letters announced.  for example, if you down arrow to save as, you will hear alt f a.  that means that, when you are in the main program window, you open the menu as you always did, alt f, then type a.  Alt f opens the menau and a then opens save as.  Ribbon programs have one menu and you should look through it.  Many important and common commands and interfaces such as options may be there.  By options, I mean the kind of options interface you used to find in the tools menu.

 

Now the we have seen the menu, let's look at the ribbons structure some more.
To review, and add more information, as you have seen, you can move to the ribbon interface with alt.  Then right and left arrow, just as you would move from menu to menu. 
You can also move to a ribbon using alt and a letter.  So, alt h takes you to the home ribbon.  Alt v takes you to the view ribbon, etc.  Once you are on the ribbon you want to work with, tab to move forward through the items in a ribbon.  Shift tab to move back through the items.  So tab and shift tab are used instead of up and down arrow.
Ribbons are divided into categories which you will hear announced as you tab.  for example, in an e-mail program, a ribbon may have a category named respond.  You may hear this announced as respond tool bar.  As you tab, you will hear commands such as reply and forward in the respond category.  When you hear a category announced, don't tab until you hear everything spoken.  You will miss the first command in the category if you do.  I'm talking about working with an unfamiliar ribbon. 
there are often many more commands and items in a ribbon than in a menu.  So memorize command sequences for items you know you will use regularly. 
As I said, there are different categories in ribbons to help organize items.  You can quickly jump from category to category in a ribbon to help you see if there is a category you want to look through. 
Move to a ribbon in Wordpad.  For example, alt h for hhome or alt v for view.
Then repeatedly issue the command control right arrow to move forward from category to category and control left arrow to move back.  When you get to a category you want to hear the items in, start tabbing.  Of course, you can shift tab to move back. 

 

Open a ribbon in Wordpad and tab through it to see how it is organized by moving through it. 
Then use control right arrow to move by category and tab to see what is in a category. 

 

Commands such as control o, control n, control s, control r, etc. are mostly retained in programs
that use ribbons, though you won't hear them announced. If you don't already know them, you'll have to find them in ways such as by looking at a list of keyboard commands for the program.  Such lists are often available in the help for the program. If you already know the commands from having used an older version of the program, most or perhaps even all of the commands you know will work.  

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Gene
 

I don't know of such a FAQ, but rather than have a FAQ and separate information on the web site, I think the information should be on the web site and a link be given in a welcome message with an explanation of the kinds of information available on the page.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi Gene and everyone,

An FAQ that automatically gets sent to new members on the list with answers to some of these questions is a good idea (if one doesn't exist already, I must admit, I joined awhile ago and can't recall).  Maybe a link to it in the signature?

Re the web site, as many know, we are in a process which has ended up being longer than anticipated, of refreshing the site, or basically rolling out a whole new site, and once that is live or available to preview, I'll be sure to post here to get your feedback on it.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
This is a long message containing my suggestions for organizing the web site for the benefit of new or not very knowledgeable users.  There may be a little repetition about how to find or get certain information but that may be helpful to those looking.
 
I haven't looked at the web site to any extent for awhile but the last time I looked, I thought it was poorly organized.  It should be very clear how to get important kinds of information from the home page, including a link to the extra voices page, sihnce, like it or not, the default voice is one of the things many people strongly object to and want to change immediately, a link to a discussion of how to use the built-in Windows Voices so that those who want to do so may do so as soon after installation as possible. a link to some sort of tutorial collection, such as the other Gene's, and a link to an NVDA tutorial such as Joseph Lees, a link to the add ons page, and a link to the support page with the explanation that information about how to join a users' group is available on that page. 
There may be other things that should be there but those are the things that come to mind.
 
I said that these links should be on the home page, but if that is undesirable, there could be something like a link on the home page that says something like information for beginners and, when this link is followed, information such as I've discussed would be in that section.
 
Also, those switching to NVDA often have a certain number of specific questions that are repeated by a lot of people who are trying NVDA on lists.  It might be a good idea to have one distinct article for beginners with answers to a small number of very common questions such as how do I shut down NVDA, how to I get to the user manual, how do I change the voice and the voice speed and other parameters, and, although I don't recall seeing this asked, where is there a list of keyboard commands. 
 
I would also suggest giving a link to the User Guide online so that those who want to look at it with their old screen-reader may do so and not have to be using NVDA and getting used to it at the same time as looking at the first few sections of the user Guide.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

This is one of the complaints often heard about NVDA. More so for folks who want to dip their toes into this screen reader. Better/well organized access to support info such as this would likely make the newbie experience go a whole lot smoother. Not to mention appreciated by everyone as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi Quentin,
Any thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:05 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi.

It seems to me with all the drama going on on here that a few things need to happen.

Firstly if there isn't a tutorials page on the nvda wiki maybe it needs to be visible, maybe as part of the support page  or download page or even main pages you should have links to the user guide, audio demos of features, audio and text tutorials maybe some sort of faq to.

It would really cut down on all the drama on here if someone wants to fine a tutorial that we can give a centralised location where all links to tutorials on and off site are placed.

Its only a suggestion, I am unsure how to make it a formal proposal but it would be a good way to make most of this stuff go away and would be generally good.

If this stuff exists deep down somewhere maybe it could be brought together somewhere and if someone has a lot of it somewhere else then it should be linked in this central location to.















--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Gene and everyone,

An FAQ that automatically gets sent to new members on the list with answers to some of these questions is a good idea (if one doesn't exist already, I must admit, I joined awhile ago and can't recall).  Maybe a link to it in the signature?

Re the web site, as many know, we are in a process which has ended up being longer than anticipated, of refreshing the site, or basically rolling out a whole new site, and once that is live or available to preview, I'll be sure to post here to get your feedback on it.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
This is a long message containing my suggestions for organizing the web site for the benefit of new or not very knowledgeable users.  There may be a little repetition about how to find or get certain information but that may be helpful to those looking.
 
I haven't looked at the web site to any extent for awhile but the last time I looked, I thought it was poorly organized.  It should be very clear how to get important kinds of information from the home page, including a link to the extra voices page, sihnce, like it or not, the default voice is one of the things many people strongly object to and want to change immediately, a link to a discussion of how to use the built-in Windows Voices so that those who want to do so may do so as soon after installation as possible. a link to some sort of tutorial collection, such as the other Gene's, and a link to an NVDA tutorial such as Joseph Lees, a link to the add ons page, and a link to the support page with the explanation that information about how to join a users' group is available on that page. 
There may be other things that should be there but those are the things that come to mind.
 
I said that these links should be on the home page, but if that is undesirable, there could be something like a link on the home page that says something like information for beginners and, when this link is followed, information such as I've discussed would be in that section.
 
Also, those switching to NVDA often have a certain number of specific questions that are repeated by a lot of people who are trying NVDA on lists.  It might be a good idea to have one distinct article for beginners with answers to a small number of very common questions such as how do I shut down NVDA, how to I get to the user manual, how do I change the voice and the voice speed and other parameters, and, although I don't recall seeing this asked, where is there a list of keyboard commands. 
 
I would also suggest giving a link to the User Guide online so that those who want to look at it with their old screen-reader may do so and not have to be using NVDA and getting used to it at the same time as looking at the first few sections of the user Guide.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

This is one of the complaints often heard about NVDA. More so for folks who want to dip their toes into this screen reader. Better/well organized access to support info such as this would likely make the newbie experience go a whole lot smoother. Not to mention appreciated by everyone as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FW: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi Quentin,
Any thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 5:05 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: [win10] nvda, and tutorials

Hi.

It seems to me with all the drama going on on here that a few things need to happen.

Firstly if there isn't a tutorials page on the nvda wiki maybe it needs to be visible, maybe as part of the support page  or download page or even main pages you should have links to the user guide, audio demos of features, audio and text tutorials maybe some sort of faq to.

It would really cut down on all the drama on here if someone wants to fine a tutorial that we can give a centralised location where all links to tutorials on and off site are placed.

Its only a suggestion, I am unsure how to make it a formal proposal but it would be a good way to make most of this stuff go away and would be generally good.

If this stuff exists deep down somewhere maybe it could be brought together somewhere and if someone has a lot of it somewhere else then it should be linked in this central location to.















--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Office: why is it so slow with NVDA?

Sally Kiebdaj
 

Not sure if this will only muddy the waters but....

When I was a Window-Eyes user, I found that any word document that contained tables would crash if I tried to select more than one cell in the table. GW Micro folks were never able to reproduce this problem or fix it but it consistently made MS word lag or crash. Not sure if that is in any way comparable to what people experience with NVDA.

It was a work computer and documents that I no longer use so unfortunatley I cannot test to see if the problem persists with NVDA.

Does anyone see problems with imbedded tables in MS word when using NVDA?

Please ignore if this is a red herring.

Cheers,
Sally

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
Things like lots of annotations (comments, track changes etc) and footnotes / endnotes can at times be problematic.

I can't immediately see a log from you David, but I'll have another look through my e-mail.

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater@...> wrote:
For me, any document does it, but particularly if there is a blank line, or when at the end of the file. I believe I sent a log file a month or so ago.
Devin Prater
Assistive Technology Instructor in Training
JAWS, Microsoft Outlook, Excel, Word, and Powerpoint certified by World Services for the Blind



On Nov 20, 2017, at 6:39 PM, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:

hi quentin,

I would be willing to help you track down the issue. However, I can't figure out exactly what triggers it iether. Office seems to be generally slow. However, a complex document seems to do it.


On 11/21/2017 2:29 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I haven't read all the other threads in the group, but can anyone having these issues please go into Office, get it to go sluggish (do you need to do anything?  Does it happen from the moment you open Word / Excel / whatever or does something seem to trigger it?)  Does it happen with small files / blank files or only large files?  And send me a log please?  https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps

I appreciate it's really frustrating, but as others have noted, it's not happening for everyone (it's not happening for me, so I need you to tell me what it's doing), so we need to get as much info as possible from those affected.

Simone mentioned it was a big problem for the Italian community - could it be from having multiple languages installed?  Is anyone having the slowdown and they only have English installed?

Also, are there any tickets yet on GitHub? I just had a look and couldn't find any.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 7:17 AM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater@...> wrote:
I agree as well. I’ll stick with the Mac until this issue is resolved, either by me downgrading to a 32-bit version of Office, or by NV-Access, or even Microsoft, with Narrator.
Devin Prater
Assistive Technology Instructor in Training
JAWS, Microsoft Outlook, Excel, Word, and Powerpoint certified by World Services for the Blind



On Nov 20, 2017, at 2:10 PM, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:


I agree on that one.

On 20/11/2017 9:29 p.m., Simone Dal Maso wrote:
Ok, but this is not acceptable, because we can-t say that NVDA is ok with office and when you use it you go into the lag/world.
I don-t know how to justify it, but I think this should be mentioned on main documentation.


Il 20/11/2017 05:05, Devin Prater ha scritto:
Oh, I have a threaded quad core CPU, 1 TB spinning drive, and 8 gigs of ram. But Narrator is slow with Office as well. The only Screen Reader that I know isn’t slow with Office is JAWS, and I’d rather not let the shark take the arm and a leg to buy it.
Devin Prater
Assistive Technology Instructor in Training
JAWS, Microsoft Outlook, Excel, Word, and Powerpoint certified by World Services for the Blind



On Nov 19, 2017, at 3:28 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io <mailto:bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>> wrote:

There a number of people who get slowness and a number who do not and this seems to be a bit of a mystery. The only thing I can advise is that you all get involved in the relevant github issues being created and hopefully some sense will emerge by looking at hardware and software involved. My gut feeling is that its the multicore processors that are suffering uneven loadings due to many parts of windows, including nvda being run in a single core and maxing it out. The multi processor issue has always been a problem as obviously many tasks rely on the output from others for their data and hence if  its taking longer things will slow down. Its not just simply a case of lets make nvda 64 bit as we still have the dependent outcome issues.
Brian

bglists@... <mailto:bglists@....uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Nika Tsiklauri" <ntsiklauri2@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2017 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Office: why is it so slow with NVDA?


I do have a latest office and latest NVDA. It  also lacks there too.  it
was the same on windows seven.


















--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



Re: Office: why is it so slow with NVDA?

Quentin Christensen
 

Things like lots of annotations (comments, track changes etc) and footnotes / endnotes can at times be problematic.

I can't immediately see a log from you David, but I'll have another look through my e-mail.

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater@...> wrote:
For me, any document does it, but particularly if there is a blank line, or when at the end of the file. I believe I sent a log file a month or so ago.
Devin Prater
Assistive Technology Instructor in Training
JAWS, Microsoft Outlook, Excel, Word, and Powerpoint certified by World Services for the Blind



On Nov 20, 2017, at 6:39 PM, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:

hi quentin,

I would be willing to help you track down the issue. However, I can't figure out exactly what triggers it iether. Office seems to be generally slow. However, a complex document seems to do it.


On 11/21/2017 2:29 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I haven't read all the other threads in the group, but can anyone having these issues please go into Office, get it to go sluggish (do you need to do anything?  Does it happen from the moment you open Word / Excel / whatever or does something seem to trigger it?)  Does it happen with small files / blank files or only large files?  And send me a log please?  https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps

I appreciate it's really frustrating, but as others have noted, it's not happening for everyone (it's not happening for me, so I need you to tell me what it's doing), so we need to get as much info as possible from those affected.

Simone mentioned it was a big problem for the Italian community - could it be from having multiple languages installed?  Is anyone having the slowdown and they only have English installed?

Also, are there any tickets yet on GitHub? I just had a look and couldn't find any.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 7:17 AM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater@...> wrote:
I agree as well. I’ll stick with the Mac until this issue is resolved, either by me downgrading to a 32-bit version of Office, or by NV-Access, or even Microsoft, with Narrator.
Devin Prater
Assistive Technology Instructor in Training
JAWS, Microsoft Outlook, Excel, Word, and Powerpoint certified by World Services for the Blind



On Nov 20, 2017, at 2:10 PM, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:


I agree on that one.

On 20/11/2017 9:29 p.m., Simone Dal Maso wrote:
Ok, but this is not acceptable, because we can-t say that NVDA is ok with office and when you use it you go into the lag/world.
I don-t know how to justify it, but I think this should be mentioned on main documentation.


Il 20/11/2017 05:05, Devin Prater ha scritto:
Oh, I have a threaded quad core CPU, 1 TB spinning drive, and 8 gigs of ram. But Narrator is slow with Office as well. The only Screen Reader that I know isn’t slow with Office is JAWS, and I’d rather not let the shark take the arm and a leg to buy it.
Devin Prater
Assistive Technology Instructor in Training
JAWS, Microsoft Outlook, Excel, Word, and Powerpoint certified by World Services for the Blind



On Nov 19, 2017, at 3:28 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io <mailto:bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>> wrote:

There a number of people who get slowness and a number who do not and this seems to be a bit of a mystery. The only thing I can advise is that you all get involved in the relevant github issues being created and hopefully some sense will emerge by looking at hardware and software involved. My gut feeling is that its the multicore processors that are suffering uneven loadings due to many parts of windows, including nvda being run in a single core and maxing it out. The multi processor issue has always been a problem as obviously many tasks rely on the output from others for their data and hence if  its taking longer things will slow down. Its not just simply a case of lets make nvda 64 bit as we still have the dependent outcome issues.
Brian

bglists@... <mailto:bglists@....uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Nika Tsiklauri" <ntsiklauri2@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2017 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Office: why is it so slow with NVDA?


I do have a latest office and latest NVDA. It  also lacks there too.  it
was the same on windows seven.


















--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: need a virtual ribben addon for NVDA

 

Gene nz,

         Sure, feel free to add the stuff I wrote.  I would appreciate attribution, but that's the total cost.  I write these things to help people out, so getting the information out there is what matters most.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr