Date   

Re: Submenu expantion on website

Adriani Botez
 

When you activate focus mode and pres tab and then enter, the menu will expand and you will have some additional links. For example our community contains Alumni, Staff and so on. Jaws seems not to recognize the new links. NVDA recognizes them only in focus mode but not in browse mode. I will create an issue for that.

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Jonathan Milam
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. November 2017 18:00
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Submenu expantion on website

 

Hi All,

 

When I visit:

http://help.wfu.edu

and attempt to expand the submenus for Help, explore services, WFU Community, and About Us, the menu doesn’t expand with enter or space, or even using the number pad  to left click it.  I have tested with Firefox, IE and Chrome.  However, JAWS expands them without difficulty.  Are there any ideas for what the developer can try to make these expand properly?  When expanded, the body of the web page changes and the content appears under the next heading.

 

Thanks,

Jonathan


Re: Submenu expantion on website

Gene
 

I don't know why you see things I don't see.  I see no menus.  Are you logged on somehow or is the site different in some way depending on some sort of conditions such as membership?
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Submenu expantion on website

Can you contact the developer and ask them to test the site wiht nvda and give the steps to reproduce? If you did contact the dev what  did they say?

On Nov 22, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote:

Hi All,


 

When I visit:

http://help.wfu.edu

and attempt to expand the submenus for Help, explore services, WFU Community, and About Us, the menu doesn’t expand with enter or space, or even using the number pad  to left click it.  I have tested with Firefox, IE and Chrome.  However, JAWS expands them without difficulty.  Are there any ideas for what the developer can try to make these expand properly?  When expanded, the body of the web page changes and the content appears under the next heading.


 

Thanks,

Jonathan



Re: Submenu expantion on website

Adriani Botez
 

I can reproduce it with NVDA 2017.3 on windows 10 and firefox , google crome, IE and Edge. It seems that NVDA does not recognize them as usual submenus. However, it works when you activate focus mode by pressing NVDA + space, then navigate with tab to the link you want to expand and press enter to expand it.

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Jonathan Milam
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. November 2017 18:00
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Submenu expantion on website

 

Hi All,

 

When I visit:

http://help.wfu.edu

and attempt to expand the submenus for Help, explore services, WFU Community, and About Us, the menu doesn’t expand with enter or space, or even using the number pad  to left click it.  I have tested with Firefox, IE and Chrome.  However, JAWS expands them without difficulty.  Are there any ideas for what the developer can try to make these expand properly?  When expanded, the body of the web page changes and the content appears under the next heading.

 

Thanks,

Jonathan


Re: Submenu expantion on website

Sarah k Alawami
 

Can you contact the developer and ask them to test the site wiht nvda and give the steps to reproduce? If you did contact the dev what  did they say?

On Nov 22, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote:

Hi All,

 

When I visit:

http://help.wfu.edu

and attempt to expand the submenus for Help, explore services, WFU Community, and About Us, the menu doesn’t expand with enter or space, or even using the number pad  to left click it.  I have tested with Firefox, IE and Chrome.  However, JAWS expands them without difficulty.  Are there any ideas for what the developer can try to make these expand properly?  When expanded, the body of the web page changes and the content appears under the next heading.

 

Thanks,

Jonathan



Submenu expantion on website

Jonathan Milam
 

Hi All,

 

When I visit:

http://help.wfu.edu

and attempt to expand the submenus for Help, explore services, WFU Community, and About Us, the menu doesn’t expand with enter or space, or even using the number pad  to left click it.  I have tested with Firefox, IE and Chrome.  However, JAWS expands them without difficulty.  Are there any ideas for what the developer can try to make these expand properly?  When expanded, the body of the web page changes and the content appears under the next heading.

 

Thanks,

Jonathan


Re: How to interact with a pop-up window in Chrome

Gene
 

There are cases in which sound is useful.  But new computer users will be better ones and more competent if they are taught without sound first or at least, with sound accompanying the speech, if that combination is an option.  And there are times when using sounds as the default is a really bad idea as in the change from browse to forms mode.  You need to hear those words so the names of the modes are reinforced for learning.  If someone has a problem they are trying to have solved and is describing it, they should know proper terminology.  A default sound doesn't expose them to the words adequately, in my opinion.  Also, the student, concentrating on other far more important things, such as learning efficient web page navigation and how to navigate a form and not miss information, should not also have to try to remember which of two sounds means what. 
 
Defaults should be set for new or inexperienced users.  For example, Screen layout is a setting for more advanced users.  Displaying links one on a line should be the default. 
 
and one more note regarding how sounds may impede learning, of course, having a sound when a download has finished is convenient.  But one way to teach students the ways and benefits of doing various things such as switching from one opened window in a program to another or from one tab to another, however it is displayed, is to have the student open the library and see the actual download information, estimated time and speed.  Just telling the student, wait for the sound, is not good teaching.  If the sound is already an automatic part of the function of the browser, that's one thing.  It's better, in my opinion, to have the student check manually from time to time when becoming more comfortable with switching windows or tabs and then closing one tab or window and leaving another opened in the same program. 
 
And in the case of Internet Explorer, where download progress is displayed as information you look at using screen review or object navigation, that is an excellent opportunity to teach or reinforce those skills.  Having a download sound may cause some instructors not to teach this as much or as well in this context.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 4:53 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to interact with a pop-up window in Chrome

If you get used to which sound means what, like the one when firefox pops up
an alert, say about redirection, and sometimes nvda seems not to read the
message, you can key blindly and get to where you are going.
 Likewise when you do not have the download window open you can here when
its completed.
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to interact with a pop-up window in Chrome


If you just hear a sound, all that tells you is that something changed
somewhere and that you should look for it.  It doesn't tell you what to look
for in terms of structure, a frame, a new tab, a new window, all you know is
that something changed.  Or, if the sound could be specialized enough to
tell you that something changed on the page and you know that it is on the
same page, that doesn't tell you what you want to look for.  I consider it
much more important that the screen-reader interrupt what it is doing and
read what has changed on the screen.  Then, regardless of what kind of
structure it is, the person can find it by using the screen-reader find or
can experiment by other methods.  Messages a browser displays are handled in
this way, such as a message that asks you if you want to remember a password
or other browser messages such as uhnresponsive script messages.  A sound
isn't played.

Gene


From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to interact with a pop-up window in Chrome


Is this not the job of the browser either through sound or via some kind of
focus change event?
 This is precisely why I like sounds for Firefox.
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to interact with a pop-up window in Chrome


But a related question is how to know something has come up.  It appears
from your comment that you get no indication that this has occurred.  I
don't know if this is the same structure on different web pages.  If you had
an indication that something had come up and if that something were read
automatically, you could move to it as you would anything on a page, with
the find command, or if it contains a form using various quick navigation
commands, etc.  But it appears the most important question is whether and
how you get notices of such occurrences.  If NVDA doesn't give any, this is
something that should be considered.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Crabtree
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 8:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to interact with a pop-up window in Chrome


The pop-up is in the same tab as the original web page, not a new tab. The
original web page is shaded and the pop-up sits centrally.

The pop-up is triggered when trying to view a video, which is available only
to those with paid accounts.

I have a paid account and would expect the fact that I was already signed in
to stop the pop-up showing, but they seem to want to verify my eligibility.

However, we shouldn't focus too much on Racing UK, as a number of other
sites display similar pop-ups when you try to do something with your account
or where they feel you should be asked something - for instance, about
saving settings or user preferences.

I just wondered if someone had a simple means of focussing on a pop-up,
rather than me having to ask a sighted person if there is an unusual word on
it, so I can search on that.







Re: Kudos to the Microsoft disability desk

Tony Ballou
 

Hey Brian,


Lol!  Cheers mate!  Back in the day, and even now from time to time,
Without a doubt, I certainly have! Many times I have had to come to the
rescue of clients who have allowed what you are talking about to take
place and clean up their left behind messes grins! My advice has always
been, try your best to leave well enough alone, and if there's a problem
you can't figure out, call me and I'll show you how to take care of it,
or if it's to advanced for you I'll come round and straighten it out
myself. Glad we have a Microsoft answer desk, it's helped me with all
kinds a stuff, and at the same time taken quite a bit of trouble off my
back.


Tony

On 11/22/2017 5:34 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
You have not had any problems compared to those who first invite in a
sighted person who knows very little about computers let alone blind
access and then when I get there I have to not only fix the problem
but the problems created by a mouse clicking user who sets everything
how they are used to it not how it works with a screenreader grr.
Brian

bglists@...
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Kudos to the Microsoft disability desk


Actually its not all the tech's fault over the last little while I have
been having an issue between my dad refered here as the user and me the
admin of the network with the winmail.dat issue.

I have always handled this issue.

Suddenly ms rings me as I expected quoting the case number.

Fine, but suddenly the user is there he wants to make sure its microsoft
and not a spammer.

Can I please handle this.

My mistake was getting up.

So he hogs the call to the tech and handles the issue instead of asking
me for things he handles it all.

He wants my case number which I just handed him.

He takes control of the issue which while I know not much more than him
he knows almost nothing about exactly what is going on he can't even
follow what is going on.

Suddenly its over, the call is over.

I come back, and check right away I see logging is on and a few other
things.

After completing a office repair and a few other things searching on the
net and hoping its all gone I come back in and well the issue is still
there.

While this was a small problem I now have no idea on the problem's
status and the user is no help in that reguard.

I have had worse issues than that, once my brother wanted to convert a
file and well, instead of looking for me he decides to randomly do it.

After a reformat to get rid of all the spyware the issue is still not
resolved.

Eventually he gives me the file and I do it and give the right one back.

Further a field in at least 3 sepperate occasions 2 of my remote users
have decided to take issues complex enough on their own for me to solve
and tried to do it themselves.

One of them took it on himself to copy his user account straight into
another folder without following the correct procedure.

This same user then tried to get a skype recording program that was free.

I had to remove and recreate his user account and then after a lot of
cleaning and reformatting was able to finally get down to the problems
and fix them which were quite simple.

In another instance, the same guy had a problem, something on his system
or online said his system was not secure.

He had had a lot of icons that were popping up which he assumed were
viruses.

I spent most of the night clearing spyware off the system and recreating
the account.

The icons were in fact his various programs with updates and other
things wanting his attention.

I have also had the case where people have got a virus and instead of
getting the right amount of tools to clear it, take a nuke, a sledge
hammer and a bulldoser to do it all for them.

The virus is gone.

Most of the system is gone, guess who has to remove all the software,
install a single tool and clear off the junk taking off the hard drive,
defrag the drive, update the os and make it work.

Guess who has the job of staying up all night fixing things, not to
mention everything needs code authorisation again, and after that
windows was alegal, I had to ring ms to get key resets to.

So yeah as a tech myself I really do wish the users don't but in when I
am trying to handle issues they pass on to us.




On 22/11/2017 10:54 a.m., Tony Ballou wrote:
Hi Mary,


Lol! Absolutely! And as a tech who calls the answer desk a lot when he
doesn't understand some of the stuff that the sighted world techs do to
systems in the name of troubleshooting, there best job is indeed taking
the box to the car.


Tony


On 11/18/2017 4:12 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
A week or so ago, there were a lot of messages on a topic I started
regarding my new windows 10 PC and it’s inability to sometimes shut
down completely or be unresponsive after restarts, where settings
wouldn’t open etc. Also there was this thing where nVDA was talking
even after it had not been loaded when the machine was trying and
failing to shut down. I had the machine back in the shop again, and
the unskilled workers who work there, at least I hope that’s what
they are rather than competent technicians, said there was nothing
wrong with it. So we brought it home again, and it exhibited the
same unfortunate behaviors. Before giving up completely and just
turning the machine back in before my 15 day return with no
questions asked Time limit Ran out, I called the Microsoft
disability helpdesk. The first guy I talked to was on the phone and
remoted in to my computer trying to do different things for well
over an hour. He finally decided that the only solution was a
reinstallation/repair of windows. That necessitated a long download.
And here I thought my Internet connection was faster than it
apparently is. Anyway, following long download, I called back, spoke
to another technician, who initiated the installation and repair
process, which went fine. The machine is now working as it should.
Amazing what real technicians who know what they’re doing and do.
Moral: never pay the so-called technicians in a big box store to do
anything but carry your box to your car.

Sent from my iPhone










Re: nvda and alternative email client and chromeandbankingwebsite

David Griffith
 

I do not know of any capacity to use newsgroups in Windows Mail.  Ihave  not  personally used Newsgroups for years but it is interesting to hear that they are still going in the face of the social media blizzard.

I think mail pretty much does what it says on the tin- that is handle email with easy links to the People and Calendar app. As i say it is short of some advanced features but I must say I personally would trade this for the speed and ease of use Mail provides.

Like another poster rather than use rules I have simply used different email addresses for different purposes.  This email  address for example is my computer email list email.  I use another email for personal use.

I do keep  Outlook 2010 on my system but only use it very occasionally now as I find its slutggishness annoying.

 

My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

 

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 22 November 2017 11:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda and alternative email client and chromeandbankingwebsite

 

The question I'd like answering is this. Does it do usenet newsgroups a

function I use a lot in Outlook express. OK so I know OE with the patch

works in 10, but when windows do a major update it gets trashed.

 

Also are some of the shrotcuts as in OE and live mail?

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal email to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 5:39 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda and alternative email client and chrome

andbankingwebsite

 

 

I'd love to have it. I used to have it but when my computer was repaired, I

lost everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David

Moore

Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 9:27 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda and alternative email client and chrome

andbankingwebsite

 

 

 

Hi!

 

Yes, I am the same way!

 

Even with the few quarks in the mail app, I still find it the best by far.

 

Pressing F7 in a message you are typing, will spell check a word at a time.

You have to just press F7 to find the next misspelled word. When it can’t

find any, it says spellcheck complete.

 

Each conversation is opened when you down arrow to it. I have to keep

pressing left arrow to close the conversation before pressing delete to

delete the entire conversation.

 

I did a good text tutorial on using the Mail, Calendar, and People apps if

anyone wants it!

 

David Moore

 

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows

10

 

 

 

From: David Griffith <mailto:daj.griffith@...>

Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 6:29 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda and alternative email client and chrome

andbankingwebsite

 

 

 

I increasingly find I am using Windows Mail  with NVDA for the vast bulk of

my email usage.

 

I have not installed the Windows 10 essentials addon as I found I was having

problems with this and Mail seems to work even faster without  it.

 

There are a few oddities bukt they are workd around and I do the work

arounds now without conscious thought but with muscle memory.

 

I find it is easily the fasterst and most efficient email system with NVDA.

Certainly is is vastly snappier and efficient compared to my Outlook 2010

which although it undeniably has more features but is far more sluggish.

 

I do not use rules and have not investigated whether these are  possible

with Windows Mail. I suspect not.

 

Windows Mail appears to be able to pull in at least some of your Outlook

contacts automatically.

 

Although there is no formal spell checking that I know of there is by

default in Mail automatic typing spelling  correction.

 

Some of the oddities.

 

Firstly if you reply to an email NVDA will not  immediately focus in the

edit field ready for typing. Alt tabbing away and alt tabbing back will

restore focus in the edit field ready for you to start typing.

 

Secondly Mail will occasionally shift focus from the message list to the

navigation Bar with NVDA. Shift tab every time you hear Navigation and you

will be placed straight back in the message list.

 

Thirdly you will occasionallly lose focus from the message list and hear the

message loading as new messatges are pulled down. Again shift tabbing once

will return you straight back to the message list.

 

In practice this lis less of a hassle than it sounds – I do it without

thinking now.

 

If you get emails coming in whilst you are reviewing your message list your

focus on a particular email in the list may slip and when you pres enter you

may open the wrong email.  – mormally one just below the one you intended.

Pressing escape to go back to the message list and re-selecting the desired

email normally fixes this.

 

However I often do not   bother to open emails.

 

The Message llist works with a preview feature which I really like as I can

often delete short  list emails without having to open them.

 

Placing attachments in a Windows Mail email is really easy. Go to file

explorer, copy the file or files want to attach, open a new email and then

press control V to paste in the files as attachments.

 

Virtually all the traditional Outlook  keyboard shortcuts work.

 

So control Y to bring up the folder list.

 

Control enter to send an email.

 

Control N for new email.

 

Control R for reply etc etc.

 

Pressing delete key in message list will delete an email – doing the same in

the reading pane will also delete the message.

 

Occasionally windows Mail will not respond at all with NVDA. Closing the

program and restarting it normally fixes this immediately. As the program is

so fast at loading this does not concern me overmuch.

 

Finally the threading feature is automatic, not customisable as far as I am

aware,  and takes a little  getting used to. Threads automatically open when

you cursor down the message list. To collapse  any thread you simply focus

on any message in the thread and press left arrow twice. When you hear

collapsed you can also then press the delete key to delete the whole thread.

 

So in summary if you want a highly customisable  email program with lost of

features mail is probably not for you.

 

If you want fast quick simple review of emails  I personally no of no

combination on any platform which works as well as NVDA and Mail.

 

David Griffith

 

My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog

http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/

My Blind hammer Blog

https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

 

 

 

From: Josh Kennedy <mailto:joshknnd1982@...>

Sent: 21 November 2017 15:55

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: [nvda] nvda and alternative email client and chrome and

bankingwebsite

 

 

 

hi

 

 

 

I have two problems with nvda 2017.4RC1. first, it seems like mozilla

 

thunderbird beta2 is unstable and is crashing. I went back to

 

thunderbird 52.4 i even uninstalled and reinstalled thunderbird and it

 

still crashes and is sluggish when writing emails and sometimes now when

 

reading emails. so I have a question. is the mail app in windows10

 

accessible? is it fast and responsive? if so I will get rid of

 

thunderbird and use the windows10 mail app or another alternative you

 

recommend. yes I have the app essentials addon installed. and my win10

 

home is all up to date. my next question is in google chrome on the

 

santander bank login website just google search santander bank login.

 

the login is a clickable elemtn. it brings up a dialog box that seems to

 

work in firefox but i can't seem to get to this dialog box in chrome.

 

can someone check that out with the latest chrome?

 

 

 

 

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

 

Josh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Urgent help needed NVDA remote me

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

I was able to figure it out on my own. I keep the mouse in the tray if I need sighted help which is 0 at this point. I have limited storage space in this crotchity old desk or else I'd put it up.

On 11/22/2017 5:36 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Rule 1 of blind access. Remove mouse plug before booting up!
Do you have a restore point set?
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Lino Morales" <linomorales001@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 9:33 PM
Subject: [nvda] Urgent help needed NVDA remote me


Hi. I accidently bumped my mouse and I have no idea what language iTunes is set to. I uninstalled everything and reinstalled everything and its in the same language even though I chose English US. Email me at:

lino.jr@...

Thanks.





Re: How to interact with a pop-up window in Chrome

Gene
 

If there is no speech when the popup comes up, there may not be a way except to read most of the page, but there may be ways you can find it quickly.  If the popup has one or more buttons, you can move to the top of the page and use the letter b to move down the page.  If you see a button that looks as though it might be relevant, you can look around that area.  You could try methods like move by heading but I have no idea if they might show any new content, it would depend how it was formatted.  You could try the letter m for move by frame but again, I have no idea if the popup would be a frame.  As I said, you can, if necessary, read most of the page.  You can probably skip the navigation links.  You may be able to save time by reading the first number of words on a line and then down arrowing to the next line and you may find the new information that way in considerably less time. 
 
If you want, you can experiment on the page we are discussing and see what happens. 
 
You could also try a JAWS demo and see if it reads the new text automatically, especially if you change the screen echo to all before you follow the link. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to interact with a pop-up window in Chrome

The Racing UK issue occurs when I have navigated to a graphic using G in browse mode, then pressed enter to activate it. The graphic in question is a video, which used to play with no problems. All I now hear is "Loading", but the video never loads because the site has displayed the re-authentication pop-up and wants me to input my password then click the re-authenticte button to prove it is me.

I can use a find dialogue to get to the pop-up in this case, because the word "reauthenticate" (which I discovered only through a sighted friend reading it) does not appear anywhere on the original page. My question was whether there is any more generalised method of working with pop-ups, which would work where the pop-up wording is not unique and which I can use without first having to ask a sighted person to interpret it.

Gene mentions using find or experimenting by other methods. What might these other methods be? Brian


Re: nvda and alternative email client and chrome andbankingwebsite

Brian's Mail list account
 

The question I'd like answering is this. Does it do usenet newsgroups a function I use a lot in Outlook express. OK so I know OE with the patch works in 10, but when windows do a major update it gets trashed.

Also are some of the shrotcuts as in OE and live mail?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 5:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda and alternative email client and chrome andbankingwebsite


I'd love to have it. I used to have it but when my computer was repaired, I lost everything.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 9:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda and alternative email client and chrome andbankingwebsite



Hi!

Yes, I am the same way!

Even with the few quarks in the mail app, I still find it the best by far.

Pressing F7 in a message you are typing, will spell check a word at a time. You have to just press F7 to find the next misspelled word. When it can’t find any, it says spellcheck complete.

Each conversation is opened when you down arrow to it. I have to keep pressing left arrow to close the conversation before pressing delete to delete the entire conversation.

I did a good text tutorial on using the Mail, Calendar, and People apps if anyone wants it!

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



From: David Griffith <mailto:daj.griffith@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 6:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda and alternative email client and chrome andbankingwebsite



I increasingly find I am using Windows Mail with NVDA for the vast bulk of my email usage.

I have not installed the Windows 10 essentials addon as I found I was having problems with this and Mail seems to work even faster without it.

There are a few oddities bukt they are workd around and I do the work arounds now without conscious thought but with muscle memory.

I find it is easily the fasterst and most efficient email system with NVDA. Certainly is is vastly snappier and efficient compared to my Outlook 2010 which although it undeniably has more features but is far more sluggish.

I do not use rules and have not investigated whether these are possible with Windows Mail. I suspect not.

Windows Mail appears to be able to pull in at least some of your Outlook contacts automatically.

Although there is no formal spell checking that I know of there is by default in Mail automatic typing spelling correction.

Some of the oddities.

Firstly if you reply to an email NVDA will not immediately focus in the edit field ready for typing. Alt tabbing away and alt tabbing back will restore focus in the edit field ready for you to start typing.

Secondly Mail will occasionally shift focus from the message list to the navigation Bar with NVDA. Shift tab every time you hear Navigation and you will be placed straight back in the message list.

Thirdly you will occasionallly lose focus from the message list and hear the message loading as new messatges are pulled down. Again shift tabbing once will return you straight back to the message list.

In practice this lis less of a hassle than it sounds – I do it without thinking now.

If you get emails coming in whilst you are reviewing your message list your focus on a particular email in the list may slip and when you pres enter you may open the wrong email. – mormally one just below the one you intended. Pressing escape to go back to the message list and re-selecting the desired email normally fixes this.

However I often do not bother to open emails.

The Message llist works with a preview feature which I really like as I can often delete short list emails without having to open them.

Placing attachments in a Windows Mail email is really easy. Go to file explorer, copy the file or files want to attach, open a new email and then press control V to paste in the files as attachments.

Virtually all the traditional Outlook keyboard shortcuts work.

So control Y to bring up the folder list.

Control enter to send an email.

Control N for new email.

Control R for reply etc etc.

Pressing delete key in message list will delete an email – doing the same in the reading pane will also delete the message.

Occasionally windows Mail will not respond at all with NVDA. Closing the program and restarting it normally fixes this immediately. As the program is so fast at loading this does not concern me overmuch.

Finally the threading feature is automatic, not customisable as far as I am aware, and takes a little getting used to. Threads automatically open when you cursor down the message list. To collapse any thread you simply focus on any message in the thread and press left arrow twice. When you hear collapsed you can also then press the delete key to delete the whole thread.

So in summary if you want a highly customisable email program with lost of features mail is probably not for you.

If you want fast quick simple review of emails I personally no of no combination on any platform which works as well as NVDA and Mail.

David Griffith

My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts



From: Josh Kennedy <mailto:joshknnd1982@...>
Sent: 21 November 2017 15:55
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] nvda and alternative email client and chrome and bankingwebsite



hi



I have two problems with nvda 2017.4RC1. first, it seems like mozilla

thunderbird beta2 is unstable and is crashing. I went back to

thunderbird 52.4 i even uninstalled and reinstalled thunderbird and it

still crashes and is sluggish when writing emails and sometimes now when

reading emails. so I have a question. is the mail app in windows10

accessible? is it fast and responsive? if so I will get rid of

thunderbird and use the windows10 mail app or another alternative you

recommend. yes I have the app essentials addon installed. and my win10

home is all up to date. my next question is in google chrome on the

santander bank login website just google search santander bank login.

the login is a clickable elemtn. it brings up a dialog box that seems to

work in firefox but i can't seem to get to this dialog box in chrome.

can someone check that out with the latest chrome?





thanks





Josh


Re: Now that I've got Firefox ESR, there's a problem with links not activating

Brian's Mail list account
 

It s a seperate download.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Mendoza" <lowvisiontek@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now that I've got Firefox ESR, there's a problem with links not activating


Hi, Gene!


Sorry to interfere the discussion. But, curious how to create portable
copy of ESR of Firefox. The reason why I am asking this is because is
that it is very convenient when moving or shifting to other computer
specially if I go out and use it anytime. I was looking at the setup
preferences but could not even look an option to create portable copy to
my flash drive. Did I miss something or needs to do in order to make
this done effectively with ease. Thanks.

On 11/22/2017 7:45 AM, Gene wrote:
You can try uninstalling the program and reinstalling it. or you can
get the portable ESR version and use that. it does everything the
installed version does, you can even set it as the default, and you
won't have to worry about any remnants from the installed program
causing problems.
I use firefox Portable because I can just copy the entire program
somewhere else as a backup. then if something becomes corrupted, I can
just delete the copy I'm using and copy the backup to the same
location I was running the program from. And I can copy the program
to any machine I wish.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* JM Casey <mailto:crystallogic@...>
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2017 5:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Now that I've got Firefox ESR, there's a problem
with links not activating

Hello everyone. Really sorry about this as it's not strictly speaking
an nVDA question, but I know Firefox has been a hot topic round these
parts for quite some time, so it doesn't seem entirely inappropriate.
As I said in a previous message, I was using FF 57 and it was working
-- ok. But as other users pointed out, it was kind of slow and weird.
And as much as I'm growing to really like nVDA, it did annoy me that I
could not use it with JAWS at all. So, I went and got Firefox ESR, as
many on this list have also done, and installed it. But now I have a
weird issue, and it's one I seem to remember coming up against with
firefox before, but I can't recall for the life of me what I had to do
to correct it.

Basically, links will not activate as they normally do. I go to a site
with ctrl-l, and can maybe click on one link as I normally would, with
the enter key. Goodreads.com is an example of a site I visit
frequently which now does this. I can search for a book title and get
a list of results, but then clicking on that item appears to do
absolutely nothing. The mobile facebook site is doing the same thing,
as have other sites, so I know it isn't site-specific, but something
on my end. The links *will* activate if I select "open in new tab"
from the context menu, but I don't want to have to do this every time,
obviously. My only thought is that something got changed when I
installed ESR over 57, a setting or something. This certainly wasn't
happening before yesterday. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks.







Re: Now that I've got Firefox ESR, there's a problem with links not activating

Brian's Mail list account
 

I seem to remember you used to get a choice on this, but if you do want to start clean the old version of revo will uninstall the 32 bit version of Firefox utterly.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now that I've got Firefox ESR, there's a problem with links not activating


I don't thik uninstalling the browser removes book marks. it probably just uninstalls the program itself. You can probably easily check this with a Google search for something like Does uninstalling Firefox remove book marks and since I'm not sure, I wouldn't uninstall the program until you know or have backed them up, as I shall discuss below.

You can back up bookmarks in firefox and then restore them in exactly the same organization as they were if you ever lose them for some reason. They should be backed up as anything you don't want to lose should be. I can describe how to do it if you want. You may want to do so before uninstalling firefox. Or, if you get the portable version, you can back them up and then restore them in the portable version.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: JM Casey
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 5:47 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now that I've got Firefox ESR, there's a problem with links not activating


Good advice. I should probably have installed the ESR fresh. I just wanted to keep my bookmarks and wasn’t sure off-hand where firefox stored them.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: November 21, 2017 6:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now that I've got Firefox ESR, there's a problem with links not activating



You can try uninstalling the program and reinstalling it. or you can get the portable ESR version and use that. it does everything the installed version does, you can even set it as the default, and you won't have to worry about any remnants from the installed program causing problems.



I use firefox Portable because I can just copy the entire program somewhere else as a backup. then if something becomes corrupted, I can just delete the copy I'm using and copy the backup to the same location I was running the program from. And I can copy the program to any machine I wish.



Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: JM Casey

Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 5:08 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Now that I've got Firefox ESR, there's a problem with links not activating



Hello everyone. Really sorry about this as it's not strictly speaking an nVDA question, but I know Firefox has been a hot topic round these parts for quite some time, so it doesn't seem entirely inappropriate. As I said in a previous message, I was using FF 57 and it was working -- ok. But as other users pointed out, it was kind of slow and weird. And as much as I'm growing to really like nVDA, it did annoy me that I could not use it with JAWS at all. So, I went and got Firefox ESR, as many on this list have also done, and installed it. But now I have a weird issue, and it's one I seem to remember coming up against with firefox before, but I can't recall for the life of me what I had to do to correct it.

Basically, links will not activate as they normally do. I go to a site with ctrl-l, and can maybe click on one link as I normally would, with the enter key. Goodreads.com is an example of a site I visit frequently which now does this. I can search for a book title and get a list of results, but then clicking on that item appears to do absolutely nothing. The mobile facebook site is doing the same thing, as have other sites, so I know it isn't site-specific, but something on my end. The links *will* activate if I select "open in new tab" from the context menu, but I don't want to have to do this every time, obviously. My only thought is that something got changed when I installed ESR over 57, a setting or something. This certainly wasn't happening before yesterday. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks.


Re: Now that I've got Firefox ESR, there's a problem with links not activating

Brian's Mail list account
 

And are you saying this affects nvda and other screenreaders?


After all if a link works and then does not work that would suggest that the page you are reading is not actually in focus for the reader or has something transparent over it. I assume toggling the focus and browse mode still work and that single letter nav ie k will still work? If you cursor along a line do you hear the word link at any point and will it then operate?

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "JM Casey" <crystallogic@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 11:08 PM
Subject: [nvda] Now that I've got Firefox ESR, there's a problem with links not activating


Hello everyone. Really sorry about this as it's not strictly speaking an nVDA question, but I know Firefox has been a hot topic round these parts for quite some time, so it doesn't seem entirely inappropriate. As I said in a previous message, I was using FF 57 and it was working -- ok. But as other users pointed out, it was kind of slow and weird. And as much as I'm growing to really like nVDA, it did annoy me that I could not use it with JAWS at all. So, I went and got Firefox ESR, as many on this list have also done, and installed it. But now I have a weird issue, and it's one I seem to remember coming up against with firefox before, but I can't recall for the life of me what I had to do to correct it.

Basically, links will not activate as they normally do. I go to a site with ctrl-l, and can maybe click on one link as I normally would, with the enter key. Goodreads.com is an example of a site I visit frequently which now does this. I can search for a book title and get a list of results, but then clicking on that item appears to do absolutely nothing. The mobile facebook site is doing the same thing, as have other sites, so I know it isn't site-specific, but something on my end. The links *will* activate if I select "open in new tab" from the context menu, but I don't want to have to do this every time, obviously. My only thought is that something got changed when I installed ESR over 57, a setting or something. This certainly wasn't happening before yesterday. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks.


Re: How to interact with a pop-up window in Chrome

Brian's Mail list account
 

If you get used to which sound means what, like the one when firefox pops up an alert, say about redirection, and sometimes nvda seems not to read the message, you can key blindly and get to where you are going.
Likewise when you do not have the download window open you can here when its completed.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to interact with a pop-up window in Chrome


If you just hear a sound, all that tells you is that something changed somewhere and that you should look for it. It doesn't tell you what to look for in terms of structure, a frame, a new tab, a new window, all you know is that something changed. Or, if the sound could be specialized enough to tell you that something changed on the page and you know that it is on the same page, that doesn't tell you what you want to look for. I consider it much more important that the screen-reader interrupt what it is doing and read what has changed on the screen. Then, regardless of what kind of structure it is, the person can find it by using the screen-reader find or can experiment by other methods. Messages a browser displays are handled in this way, such as a message that asks you if you want to remember a password or other browser messages such as uhnresponsive script messages. A sound isn't played.

Gene


From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to interact with a pop-up window in Chrome


Is this not the job of the browser either through sound or via some kind of
focus change event?
This is precisely why I like sounds for Firefox.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to interact with a pop-up window in Chrome


But a related question is how to know something has come up. It appears
from your comment that you get no indication that this has occurred. I
don't know if this is the same structure on different web pages. If you had
an indication that something had come up and if that something were read
automatically, you could move to it as you would anything on a page, with
the find command, or if it contains a form using various quick navigation
commands, etc. But it appears the most important question is whether and
how you get notices of such occurrences. If NVDA doesn't give any, this is
something that should be considered.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Crabtree
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 8:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to interact with a pop-up window in Chrome


The pop-up is in the same tab as the original web page, not a new tab. The
original web page is shaded and the pop-up sits centrally.

The pop-up is triggered when trying to view a video, which is available only
to those with paid accounts.

I have a paid account and would expect the fact that I was already signed in
to stop the pop-up showing, but they seem to want to verify my eligibility.

However, we shouldn't focus too much on Racing UK, as a number of other
sites display similar pop-ups when you try to do something with your account
or where they feel you should be asked something - for instance, about
saving settings or user preferences.

I just wondered if someone had a simple means of focussing on a pop-up,
rather than me having to ask a sighted person if there is an unusual word on
it, so I can search on that.


Re: Firefox ESR Success

Brian's Mail list account
 

Well yes you and me both I suspect something has changed over the years as some were still there, the newer ones but the others did not make it, yet when I reinstalled the 32 bit one it all came back.
I never investigated as I just did not like the feel of the 64 bit version it seemed jerky and erratic to me.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox ESR Success


That's odd. I wonder why that happened. I'm surprised that profile in %appdata% or where ever it is located now a days did not port over.

On Nov 21, 2017, at 10:23 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:

Well whatever works for you is fine of course. I lost many of my bookmarks when I tried to use the 64 bit version.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "David Russell" <david.sonofhashem@... <mailto:david.sonofhashem@...>>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 4:14 PM
Subject: [nvda] Firefox ESR Success


Hi NVDA Group!

I'm very happy to tell you that the ESR Version of Firefox 64-bit US
English is on my computer now, and things are working very well!

Yes, I know Gene counseled the 32-bit would be fine and so on, but
until understanding is better on my end, I prefer to match what was
recommended with what is had.

I am glad in all this to discover the online newsletter from Australia
called, Entopia. It seems to come out once a week, features a short
notice about NVDA, and I did subscribe. By the way, good luck to those
of you from Australia with your forthcoming elections.. I heard your
national radio service on tunein.com.

All the Best,

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@...
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!


Re: A few comments on recent threads

Brian's Mail list account
 

Of course if you use html you could easily have links to demos in audio, but as has been said one needs to keep the speech rate slower than you probably use and also how do you decide on a voice?
I know that sometimes the person giving the presentation can have an accent that is often hard for some to understand depending on their life experiences. Joseph is mostly good but now and aain as we all tend to do, he can gabble a bit and that is when I struggle. I even do this myself when talking about things I know about and its only when you listen to it later on that you realise you have done it!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "JM Casey" <crystallogic@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few comments on recent threads


Hi.

Not checked out too many tutorials but I thought I could weigh in.

Yes, wordpad will handle rtfs just fine. But I have to ask: isn't html all-round the best format for these sorts of things? You can't put links in a text file, and html is pretty much cross-platform, so as long as someone has some sort of browser or viewer, they should not only be able to read the file, but effectively use a table of contents as well.

I don't have much of an opinion on audio. I know a lot of people like them but personally I would much rather just read something. But yes, I'd think a well-recorded file, converted to mp3, would be best for most people. You could keep the bit-rate down pretty low so long as the actual recording was of a decent quality (minimum ambient noise, etc). Even the rather expensive training materials from Freedom Scientific, when I reviewed them for my old work, were full of artifacts and crap that made them irritating to listen to. I know some people could do better, but, again, I highly prefer a simple html document containing text.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 21, 2017 3:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few comments on recent threads

Well for the central location all tutorials unless spacifically meant for outside viewing and for easy access should be in html, with a text download in txt extention.

Yes people would have to be added to update their own tutorials I am not sure how that would work.

As for audios, there would have to be some rules for them.

Language, and voice, the hardware, etc.

I can see audio accompanying a standard tutorial but I wouldn't want an audio tutorial on its own.

There would have to be rules on what formats were used.

Bunches of tutorials could be zipped I could see links to 7zip, even adobe for those viewing pdfs.

Over that though pdfs would have to be straight text and not scanned text if allowed.

Here is the cludge, not everyone is going to have or want an office program to view a tutorial, I think wordpad can handle rtf but don't quote me on this.

So your formats sould be txt and probably html with maybe audio.

In terms of audio, most players can play mp3s.

Not everyone will be able to play ogg and or flack files.

One thing that will have to be stopped immediately is for those that do tutorials posting them in wav files or if they do someone is going to have to convert those to mp3 files befor posting them.

Also unless high quality is needed 128-192 kbps files are probably ok, we don't want people to use lots of their internet especially since we don't know how stable x person's net could be especially outside standard developed countries.

I am not sure about language, there is no way everyone could post in every language and or that sort of thing either.

English would have to be the commen language used I am not sure how translations of tutorials would be handled I could see you selecting a language and maybe the tutorials could be translated by those that knew a language but its tedius if there was a lot of them.

That may be doable if slow.

But what we absolutely don't want is a tutorial written in another language first posted without an english translation, and it would be better if tutorials were in english first otherwise that could become a problem.

Then again if the person doing this is not good in english such as it would have to be edited to make sence if they feel that they are comfortable writing in their own language and as long as someone can translate into english and is good at both then thats probably ok.

When I wrote the proposal yesterday on the back of the last drama session I never fully thought about what I was fully meaning till I read this message, the poster is right.

Now once set up I do think the resource if kept updated will be a really good idea but it really needs to be set up properly.

Sadly google translate is not always the best to translate anything into english unless that is all you want is a general meaning.




On 21/11/2017 11:04 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

1. tutorials. Several issues here, where are they, are they up to
date, who is doing them and in what format are they?

I'd suggest if anyone wants to do audio ones the first thing to do is
to use a slowed down voice. As we are talking to people starting out,
it takes time and maybe even never will get to a point where they can
hear as fast as you do. Also the voice should be something
understandable and something available in all flavours of windows with
no additional downloads.
Do not assume anything, and be clear about the intention when you are
demonstrating things.
Of course it gets more complicated if you are also talking about
tutorials in other languages than English, and sometimes the demo will
need to be significantly different given the complexity of none Latin
based languages.
2 Ribbons, the eternal war of words on these has broken out yet again.
To my mind there will always be this problem. Some are simply not able
to grasp the conventions, and I hold my hands up to being in this
group. The best course I think is to simply point people at
explanations and files to maybe try to make them go away wherever you
can for those like me who are obviously thick in this area! Certainly
lets not argue about them ad infinitum every couple of months.

3. Bugs you think you have discovered in nvda.
Firstly ask here, it could be a bug or it could be an issue with the
machine or software on it. Once you have exhausted the alternatives,
at least try to get an account on github. (Is there a tutorial for
this too?) and report your findings there.Although some developers do
watch here, they can miss things just posted here amongst the noise of
everyday queries. If you cannot actually figure out the issues
reporting section of Github, and it can be a bit daunting if you do
not use online forms a lot, then subscribe to one of the lists such as
the developers one. These seem to be all listed with their
subscription details on the nv access web site. Then if you are
baffled by github, and it being a relatively low traffic list, ask
somebody to help you report it there. Do not clutter that list with
questions or crospost the posts here over there though, as they will
not be as tolerant of it as it seems they are here.
Always read up on an issue first if you can.
4. Testing nvda new features. In the main for most who just want to
use nvda, then use the release version, but always have a back up
portable version that you can run in an emergency from a keyboard
shortcut.
This is especially needed if you want to test snapshot builds, and RC
releases, of course as if there are bugs its far easier to reboot to a
known good version and them try to figure out what went wrong!
Remember, next snaps are very much untested ideas, Master are beta
releases and mostly work but occasionally do contain regressions that
can trap the unwary. RC release candidate builds come in two flavours.
Thos on the snapshot pages which are basically the same as the release
but still contain error sounds enabled and those often flagged up in
messages to the various lists which are more or less full versions
complete with error sounds removed.

5. If somebody here annoys you. go and take a walk before writing any
reply to the list. Often the words may sound critical or harsh, but
most often this is because of the lack of human intonation. it might
be slightly sarcastic or just a joke. Best ignored if its obviously
badly meant, as flame wars can occur and nobody wins.
Debate is fine but if you are not willing to listen then don't bother
getting involved.

6. On a personal note, although I do try to read back through the days
messages and make one reply, I am often thwarted by the time warp in
email delivery from mailing lists, which can delay things by up to a
day, meaning one has to reply again to take account of new info. This
is not uncommon so don't jump on people unless its clear they are
responding to each and every message in a thread all the time. always
read back a bit in the list before posting a question, as it could
well be that its been asked before.this is evident in the many threads
on at the moment about Firefox 57, craptum.
grin. I suppose we all make mistakes and do not add to threads or
indeed not change the sub line when the meaning alters.
Anyway, just needed to say some stuff, I'm off for a lie down now.
Brian



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Re: A few comments on recent threads

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I've had no issues with goldwave and restoring records. the trick is not to use internal sound hardware or perhaps in one case to use a very old soundblaster which seems capable of smoothing out the digital crap on the power lines better than modern on the motherboard sound cardds are.
Tips for tape restoration. If tape is mono and crappy, if you can get a player with an azimuth adjustmeent use it to get good mono or simply record one channel the best one. Then use the noise reduction sparingly ie not as the default says up the fft size.
It can sound a little faffy as all these noise reduction systems only mask it or use a voiceprint to get rid of stuff but that watermarks the frequency response with the hiss profile as filters.

On records use the smallest setting on click removal first. Use selective filtering for rumble and cutter noise. You cannot remove swishes and oher noises If a record is mono make it mono on the recording or combine the left and right afterwards a lot of noise and crackleand wear goes away.
brian


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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few comments on recent threads


To be honest for once I am probably on the side of fs which isn't usual.

Firstly if you use windows media player native formats and don't use a real high quality format the digital noise stream is encoded in the file to, and you hear it.

A lot of radio stations that were in windows media and even low quality real media had this issue, always sounded like an old radio in a shed with all the digital chatter.

The other thing is that a lot of tutorials especially the first manuals that came online especially if they were the same, for ages and ages were simply transposed from tapes.

Now I know now you can get reasonable recording restoration software but tapes to get your data off especially in those days even if they were good quality tapes would get a lot of hiss and machine noise.

You can fix this some what, but if you try to restore a record and yes I hav tried to cleanup a record with goldwave and really made it where I really made it sound normal all I got was the same digital signal clutter unless in stereo then it wasn't so bad.

Another thing, a lot of tapes were mono, and a lot of the tutorials these days are stereo.

And while a mono sound while a bit crappy in itself is just that, if you don't care the signal never was a real issue.

Make that stereo or even think of converting then you have a problem.

While you can probably split a digital mono signal to stereo, if that was a mono device like a tape to digital, with all the stuff I mentioned about tapes previously, well tapes are just not ideal to record off of unless they are stereo tapes or you just don't care.

I did recordings of tapes not from tape to computer, but actually played the tapes and taped to a digital device via a microphone.

Now I realise that this is or can be a problem if the environment aint right but its probably better if you can do it, Since you are dealing with a digital file hearing the audio from a tape.

And the environment sadly but oh well.

You can't exactly use that for production as such but you could edit a file and do that.

But I was dealing with stereo tape recordings on good tapes and dictaphones.

Its actually worse when you go digital to tape, fine for music but still.




On 22/11/2017 9:34 a.m., JM Casey wrote:
Hi.

Not checked out too many tutorials but I thought I could weigh in.

Yes, wordpad will handle rtfs just fine. But I have to ask: isn't html all-round the best format for these sorts of things? You can't put links in a text file, and html is pretty much cross-platform, so as long as someone has some sort of browser or viewer, they should not only be able to read the file, but effectively use a table of contents as well.

I don't have much of an opinion on audio. I know a lot of people like them but personally I would much rather just read something. But yes, I'd think a well-recorded file, converted to mp3, would be best for most people. You could keep the bit-rate down pretty low so long as the actual recording was of a decent quality (minimum ambient noise, etc). Even the rather expensive training materials from Freedom Scientific, when I reviewed them for my old work, were full of artifacts and crap that made them irritating to listen to. I know some people could do better, but, again, I highly prefer a simple html document containing text.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 21, 2017 3:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few comments on recent threads

Well for the central location all tutorials unless spacifically meant for outside viewing and for easy access should be in html, with a text download in txt extention.

Yes people would have to be added to update their own tutorials I am not sure how that would work.

As for audios, there would have to be some rules for them.

Language, and voice, the hardware, etc.

I can see audio accompanying a standard tutorial but I wouldn't want an audio tutorial on its own.

There would have to be rules on what formats were used.

Bunches of tutorials could be zipped I could see links to 7zip, even adobe for those viewing pdfs.

Over that though pdfs would have to be straight text and not scanned text if allowed.

Here is the cludge, not everyone is going to have or want an office program to view a tutorial, I think wordpad can handle rtf but don't quote me on this.

So your formats sould be txt and probably html with maybe audio.

In terms of audio, most players can play mp3s.

Not everyone will be able to play ogg and or flack files.

One thing that will have to be stopped immediately is for those that do tutorials posting them in wav files or if they do someone is going to have to convert those to mp3 files befor posting them.

Also unless high quality is needed 128-192 kbps files are probably ok, we don't want people to use lots of their internet especially since we don't know how stable x person's net could be especially outside standard developed countries.

I am not sure about language, there is no way everyone could post in every language and or that sort of thing either.

English would have to be the commen language used I am not sure how translations of tutorials would be handled I could see you selecting a language and maybe the tutorials could be translated by those that knew a language but its tedius if there was a lot of them.

That may be doable if slow.

But what we absolutely don't want is a tutorial written in another language first posted without an english translation, and it would be better if tutorials were in english first otherwise that could become a problem.

Then again if the person doing this is not good in english such as it would have to be edited to make sence if they feel that they are comfortable writing in their own language and as long as someone can translate into english and is good at both then thats probably ok.

When I wrote the proposal yesterday on the back of the last drama session I never fully thought about what I was fully meaning till I read this message, the poster is right.

Now once set up I do think the resource if kept updated will be a really good idea but it really needs to be set up properly.

Sadly google translate is not always the best to translate anything into english unless that is all you want is a general meaning.




On 21/11/2017 11:04 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
1. tutorials. Several issues here, where are they, are they up to
date, who is doing them and in what format are they?

I'd suggest if anyone wants to do audio ones the first thing to do is
to use a slowed down voice. As we are talking to people starting out,
it takes time and maybe even never will get to a point where they can
hear as fast as you do. Also the voice should be something
understandable and something available in all flavours of windows with
no additional downloads.
Do not assume anything, and be clear about the intention when you are
demonstrating things.
Of course it gets more complicated if you are also talking about
tutorials in other languages than English, and sometimes the demo will
need to be significantly different given the complexity of none Latin
based languages.
2 Ribbons, the eternal war of words on these has broken out yet again.
To my mind there will always be this problem. Some are simply not able
to grasp the conventions, and I hold my hands up to being in this
group. The best course I think is to simply point people at
explanations and files to maybe try to make them go away wherever you
can for those like me who are obviously thick in this area! Certainly
lets not argue about them ad infinitum every couple of months.

3. Bugs you think you have discovered in nvda.
Firstly ask here, it could be a bug or it could be an issue with the
machine or software on it. Once you have exhausted the alternatives,
at least try to get an account on github. (Is there a tutorial for
this too?) and report your findings there.Although some developers do
watch here, they can miss things just posted here amongst the noise of
everyday queries. If you cannot actually figure out the issues
reporting section of Github, and it can be a bit daunting if you do
not use online forms a lot, then subscribe to one of the lists such as
the developers one. These seem to be all listed with their
subscription details on the nv access web site. Then if you are
baffled by github, and it being a relatively low traffic list, ask
somebody to help you report it there. Do not clutter that list with
questions or crospost the posts here over there though, as they will
not be as tolerant of it as it seems they are here.
Always read up on an issue first if you can.
4. Testing nvda new features. In the main for most who just want to
use nvda, then use the release version, but always have a back up
portable version that you can run in an emergency from a keyboard
shortcut.
This is especially needed if you want to test snapshot builds, and RC
releases, of course as if there are bugs its far easier to reboot to a
known good version and them try to figure out what went wrong!
Remember, next snaps are very much untested ideas, Master are beta
releases and mostly work but occasionally do contain regressions that
can trap the unwary. RC release candidate builds come in two flavours.
Thos on the snapshot pages which are basically the same as the release
but still contain error sounds enabled and those often flagged up in
messages to the various lists which are more or less full versions
complete with error sounds removed.

5. If somebody here annoys you. go and take a walk before writing any
reply to the list. Often the words may sound critical or harsh, but
most often this is because of the lack of human intonation. it might
be slightly sarcastic or just a joke. Best ignored if its obviously
badly meant, as flame wars can occur and nobody wins.
Debate is fine but if you are not willing to listen then don't bother
getting involved.

6. On a personal note, although I do try to read back through the days
messages and make one reply, I am often thwarted by the time warp in
email delivery from mailing lists, which can delay things by up to a
day, meaning one has to reply again to take account of new info. This
is not uncommon so don't jump on people unless its clear they are
responding to each and every message in a thread all the time. always
read back a bit in the list before posting a question, as it could
well be that its been asked before.this is evident in the many threads
on at the moment about Firefox 57, craptum.
grin. I suppose we all make mistakes and do not add to threads or
indeed not change the sub line when the meaning alters.
Anyway, just needed to say some stuff, I'm off for a lie down now.
Brian



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Re: Urgent help needed NVDA remote me

Brian's Mail list account
 

Rule 1 of blind access. Remove mouse plug before booting up!
Do you have a restore point set?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Lino Morales" <linomorales001@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 9:33 PM
Subject: [nvda] Urgent help needed NVDA remote me


Hi. I accidently bumped my mouse and I have no idea what language iTunes is set to. I uninstalled everything and reinstalled everything and its in the same language even though I chose English US. Email me at:

lino.jr@...

Thanks.



Re: nvda 2017.4rc1 and thunderbird version 52.4.0 (32-bit)

Brian's Mail list account
 

What are your experiences with the portable version of Tbird?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io" <the.big.white.shepherd@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda 2017.4rc1 and thunderbird version 52.4.0 (32-bit)


Hi, did the same but it did not read the save bit. anyway fixed as did a reinstall and all is well now thanks.

On 20/11/2017 23:37, Jacob Kruger wrote:
I use the message menu, attachments sub-menu to save/open attachments easily enough, working with thunderbird 52.4 on my windows 10 64 bit fall creators machine, and working with either NVDA 2017.3, or latest RC of 2017.4?


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2017/11/20 23:56, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:
anyone having problems with tb 5240 and attachments I can't get to the save button only using Narrator could I do this.

On 19/11/2017 23:58, Robert Mendoza wrote:
Hi, Shaun! there is a beta version you may try it. the response for the nvda 2017.4 RC1 works fine and seemingly fast.

On 11/20/2017 3:48 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
What I want to know is when thunderbird will actually get a release, there hasn't been one since 52 and while I don't mind as such as I use no addons at all, I would really like to see some improvements eventually.

win7 works but still I don't always watch it.




On 20/11/2017 7:47 a.m., Lino Morales wrote:
Try T Bird 57 beta. Its fast.

On 11/18/2017 5:00 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

also in windows10 home 64bit latest updated windows10 the very latest without being on the insider build. NVDA is sluggish when composing emails in thunderbird. Its very sluggish. When I hit backspace or any of the arrow keys when composing or writing emails NVDA takes one whole entire second to give me speech feedback on where the cursor is at. But on the web in google chrome and firefox and in microsoft wordpad, notepad and so on NVDA is fast and snappy when arrowing around. Has anyone noticed this and can this cursor lag with NVDA please be fixed?


Josh


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