Date   

Re: Power Point presentation access

ely.r@...
 

Knowing this, I will use your suggestions and see how it works. I have a totally blind friend who is a JAWS user and who will be teaching a course at a local community college and wants to use the previous instructors Power Point presentations. I have not had access to these, so who knows what is on the slides. I’ll see if she will send me a sample. Not sure if she would want to try NVDA, but sounds like the one way she may have that access.

Again, thanks

Rick

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Power Point presentation access

 

Which version of Office are you using?  Certainly in recent versions, NVDA should work fine in presentation mode.  One big trick to look out for however, is when creating a slideshow, you can set bullet point "animations" where each bullet point (or other object on a slide) only appears as you press enter / right arrow etc.  This works visually, but NVDA reads the whole slide as soon as it loads.  The best workaround at this stage is ideally to not use animations for now (slide transitions are a separate thing - they control how each slide appears or replaces the last, and they are fine) or to use them consistently, press control as soon as each slide loads, and then as you press enter to load each bullet, press down arrow to have NVDA read you the line.

 

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 1:37 AM, <ely.r@...> wrote:

Thanks for this. I was in touch with the Microsoft Accessibility Team. They sent suggestions along using Narrator. However, even in the overview of that process, it was stated that Narrator would not work in presentation mode.

I will give this a try,
Rick


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Domingos de Oliveira via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Power Point presentation access

Hi,

if you change into the presentation Mode with F5, NVDA reads the whole slide. You then have to press Return to turn to the next slide.

HTH

2017-12-06 1:34 GMT+01:00, Pranav Lal <pranav.lal@...>:
> Rick,
>
>
>
> I am able to read presentations including alternative text tags in
> Powerpoint with NVDA without problems. No third party program needed.
>
>
>
> Pranav
>
>


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Telefon: 017632245129
Web: www.oliveira-online.net
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Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Rui Fontes
 

Yah, it is the only thing to know if it is working or not!


Rui



Às 01:24 de 07/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

Well another thing you can do is get a light probe aparently this works and can tell if something is active or not but I have never needed to use one but still I have heard it be done.




On 7/12/2017 12:17 p.m., David Moore wrote:
Hi!
With my SSD computer with no fan, If I have no speech, and I think it should be running, I do the following.
I press CTRL+Windows+enter to see if Narrator comes on.
If it does not, than I check to see if my computer is muted by pressing the correct function key. If I still get no speech, then I press Windows + D that puts you on the desktop. Then, I press Alt+F4 to bring up the power menu. I arrow to the last choice, which is restart. I press enter and wait just a minute. If still no action, then I hold down the power button for a few seconds, which is a very last resort. Then, I just tap the power button to turn the computer back on.
In two years, I have only had to do all of that twice.
Usually, one screen reader will freeze up, and you can turn on Narrator. When you do that, the other screen reader will start working. Narrator is such a big help, because it will start with CTRL+Windows+Enter when other screen readers like NVDA or JAWS will not start for some reason.
You just have to go by your screen reader if it responds or not, most of the time, to see if it is running or not. I love the SSD drive. I get so impatient when I go back to my laptop using a regular Hard drive, because it is so slow compared to having the SSD drive!
Take care, guys!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 1:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

No. You do'thear it but if you detect anythig odd you just now it might be the drive. You can also do a scan o the disk as well. My ssd has ben going for 3 years on my mac and it's still pretty good. A bit slower but still pretty good.

On Dec 5, 2017, at 1:59 PM, tina sohl <tinabir@...> wrote:

How do you know when a pc with and ssd drive is running? If you can't see it, is there still something you can hear? Both our pcs still have regular drives so we're curious.
Original message:
Once you go SSD you don't want to ever go back. You can if needed but
you really don't want to techy or no techy. I might hate the size of
the SSD on my Mac book pro but I love   that it has one. My windows
10 custom built Machine flies because of this SSD and the fact it does
have a pretty nice processor.
On 12/4/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
well, lets say you opened 5000 documents a year. With a time save of 3
seconds, you save about 15000 seconds a year, which is alot. And believe
me, it is much more than that. I have probably saved hours of my life
with my ssd. Some of these things, like an ssd can only be experienced,
not described. The benchmarks only hint at the performance improvement.
So my suggestion gene, is for you to someday try using a system with an
ssd for just 5 minutes, and I garantee you you will never want to go
back to a normal harddrive.

On 12/4/2017 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before
Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a
mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a mechanical
drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that means anything?  If I
open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the
program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the
document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty
minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight
seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two programs
opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Lenron <mailto:lenron93@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before
Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just
facts.
On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...
<mailto:enes.saribas@...>> wrote:
hi,
I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get
an ssd.

On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed
matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do
things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want
everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If
they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
computers, cars, or anywhere else.
There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to
use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
or  important.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before
I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
information
about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.
The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
was to get
all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
(fragmented)
across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
larger
ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file
together in
one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
spread
around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
and find
all the different parts).
With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
nothing
needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
efficient
to read than complete ones.

Antony.
On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
Hello,
Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
these in
that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
nothing
further can be writtten into it.
I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
is a
large capacity, it may never be an issue.
I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
consequences of this.
I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
fragment
a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
writable if
it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of
drive.
Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..
Best Regards, Jim.
From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than
before
Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
that
should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 =
intel i3,
ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
computer. If
you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up,
go for
something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again.
Even a
cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks
off of
that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
solid
state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can
get
by
with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even
with
headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
with
them in the store using narrator.
--
"In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
realise that
the job was already taken."
  - Douglas Adams
                                                    Please reply to the
list;
please
*don't* CC me.







--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762







--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762















Re: Navigating Text since NVDA 2017.3

Quentin Christensen
 

Damien,

Well tracked down :)

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Damien Sykes <damien@...> wrote:
Hi guys,
For anyone like me who has noticed the text lag and wonders why. The following came from Tyler Spivey, who helped me resolve this strange conundrum.
It actually appears that NVDA has always had some reason or other to have to wait a predetermined amount of time for the cursor to move in order to read whatever new information is under the cursor, or to inform of highlighted text, or if no change has occurred, to state the fact that we are at the beginning or end of the field. Until 2017.3, this was 30 milliseconds, a time so short that you would hardly notice it.
 
An entry in the change log for 2017.3 reads:
• In editable text, when moving the caret (e.g. with the cursor keys or backspace), NVDA's spoken feedback is now more accurate in many cases, particularly in Chrome and terminal applications.
 
In fact, one of the ways this seems to have been resolved was to increase the cursor wait time from 30 to 100 milliseconds, which may not seem much but is in fact a 230% increase. This means that people who are well tuned in to how NVDA read data previously, and perhaps more importantly rely on speed, will notice this change.
This is all apparently covered on GitHub, which, as far as I’m concerned isn’t really a user-friendly platform (that’s to say it’s meant for developers, and expert ones at that, which means you’re going to see a lot of technical jargon). Some may argue that this issue is a very fine line between a development technicality and usability, and since I seem to have been the only one who cared or even noticed this, I’m inclined to agree. But at least it’s out there now.
So, to summarise:
1. This is actually intended behaviour.
2. You can change it, but you have to know how and where it’s stored. It’s not in the configuration dialogs. Some may not even find it worth the effort – I only did because it ground straight through my sensitive teeth and pounded through my skull.
3. If you change it, be aware that you may not get the improved accuracy stated in the change log entry quoted above.
Cheers.
Damien.
 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: NVDA 2017.4 released

Quentin Christensen
 

Damien,

Sorry, I see your other message outlining your issue ("Navigating text since NVDA 2017.3").

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
Hi Damien,

Can you give me a quick refresher please on your text field issue?  (steps to reproduce etc) and I'll look into it.

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Damien Sykes <damien@...> wrote:
Hi Quentin,
Unfortunately, I’m still seeing the text field related lags I mentioned after the release of 2017.3 (namely announcements of text highlighting, beginning/end of document/field messages etc). Luckily for me there was nothing seriously important for me to need to upgrade (both 2017.3 and 2017.4 seem to be concentrating on Braille and Windows 10, both of which are irrelevant for me at present), but I felt it important to mention it again in case others are still having these issues.
I would post it as an issue on GitHub, except that as far as I’m concerned, that site seems to have made its way down from heaven on Mars. Forget the programming elements and integrations with Git (which is an aeroplane cockpit in and of itself), even posting issues seems to be a full day’s work for me.
Cheers.
Damien.
 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:13 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2017.4 released
 

NV Access is pleased to announce that version 2017.4 of NVDA, the free screen reader for Microsoft Windows, has now been released.

 

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nv-access-announces-availability-of-nvda-2017-4/

 

Highlights of this release include many fixes and enhancements to web support including browse mode for web dialogs by default, better reporting of field group labels in browse mode, support for new Windows 10 technologies such as Windows Defender Application Guard and Windows 10 on ARM64, and automatic reporting of screen orientation and battery status. Please note that this version of NVDA no longer supports Windows XP or Windows Vista. The minimum requirement for NVDA is now windows 7 with Service Pack 1.

 

This award-winning software has been changing the lives of thousands of blind and vision impaired people who can now independently use computers to produce written content, read news, socialise, shop and bank online, and, most importantly, actively participate in education and employment. Please consider helping NV Access to continue this important work by becoming a monthly donor.  Download or update today:

 

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nv-access-announces-availability-of-nvda-2017-4/

 

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

 

Well another thing you can do is get a light probe aparently this works and can tell if something is active or not but I have never needed to use one but still I have heard it be done.

On 7/12/2017 12:17 p.m., David Moore wrote:
Hi!
With my SSD computer with no fan, If I have no speech, and I think it should be running, I do the following.
I press CTRL+Windows+enter to see if Narrator comes on.
If it does not, than I check to see if my computer is muted by pressing the correct function key. If I still get no speech, then I press Windows + D that puts you on the desktop. Then, I press Alt+F4 to bring up the power menu. I arrow to the last choice, which is restart. I press enter and wait just a minute. If still no action, then I hold down the power button for a few seconds, which is a very last resort. Then, I just tap the power button to turn the computer back on.
In two years, I have only had to do all of that twice.
Usually, one screen reader will freeze up, and you can turn on Narrator. When you do that, the other screen reader will start working. Narrator is such a big help, because it will start with CTRL+Windows+Enter when other screen readers like NVDA or JAWS will not start for some reason.
You just have to go by your screen reader if it responds or not, most of the time, to see if it is running or not. I love the SSD drive. I get so impatient when I go back to my laptop using a regular Hard drive, because it is so slow compared to having the SSD drive!
Take care, guys!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 1:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

No. You do'thear it but if you detect anythig odd you just now it might be the drive. You can also do a scan o the disk as well. My ssd has ben going for 3 years on my mac and it's still pretty good. A bit slower but still pretty good.

On Dec 5, 2017, at 1:59 PM, tina sohl <tinabir@samobile.net> wrote:

How do you know when a pc with and ssd drive is running? If you can't see it, is there still something you can hear? Both our pcs still have regular drives so we're curious.
Original message:
Once you go SSD you don't want to ever go back. You can if needed but
you really don't want to techy or no techy. I might hate the size of
the SSD on my Mac book pro but I love that it has one. My windows
10 custom built Machine flies because of this SSD and the fact it does
have a pretty nice processor.
On 12/4/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@gmail.com> wrote:
well, lets say you opened 5000 documents a year. With a time save of 3
seconds, you save about 15000 seconds a year, which is alot. And believe
me, it is much more than that. I have probably saved hours of my life
with my ssd. Some of these things, like an ssd can only be experienced,
not described. The benchmarks only hint at the performance improvement.
So my suggestion gene, is for you to someday try using a system with an
ssd for just 5 minutes, and I garantee you you will never want to go
back to a normal harddrive.
On 12/4/2017 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
*Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before
Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a
mechanical drive. let's say it takes one second using a mechanical
drive. How have I saved any amount of time that means anything? If I
open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the
program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the
document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty
minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight
seconds a meaningful amount of time? I can leave one or two programs
opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Lenron <mailto:lenron93@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before
Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just
facts.
On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@gmail.com
<mailto:enes.saribas@gmail.com>> wrote:
hi,
I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get
an ssd.
On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
far too prescriptive and overgeneral. If you do things where speed
matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
while at the moment, then it would make sense. but if you mainly do
things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
don't consider it important. there are some people who just want
everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly. If
they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
computers, cars, or anywhere else.
There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
others may wish to comment. If you have a laptop, and are going to
use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
or important.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
*Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before
I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
information
about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.
The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
was to get
all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
(fragmented)
across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
larger
ones are written into the gaps afterwards. Having the entire file
together in
one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
spread
around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
and find
all the different parts).
With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
nothing
needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
efficient
to read than complete ones.
Antony.
On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
Hello,
Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
these in
that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
nothing
further can be writtten into it.
I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
is a
large capacity, it may never be an issue.
I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
consequences of this.
I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
fragment
a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
writable if
it is done regularly and is not really necessary on this sort of
drive.
Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..
Best Regards, Jim.
From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than
before
Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
that
should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 =
intel i3,
ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
computer. If
you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up,
go for
something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again.
Even a
cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks
off of
that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
solid
state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can
get
by
with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even
with
headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
with
them in the store using narrator.
--
"In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
realise that
the job was already taken."
- Douglas Adams
Please reply to the
list;
please
*don't* CC me.






--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762






--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762





Re: NVDA 2017.4 released

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Damien,

Can you give me a quick refresher please on your text field issue?  (steps to reproduce etc) and I'll look into it.

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Damien Sykes <damien@...> wrote:
Hi Quentin,
Unfortunately, I’m still seeing the text field related lags I mentioned after the release of 2017.3 (namely announcements of text highlighting, beginning/end of document/field messages etc). Luckily for me there was nothing seriously important for me to need to upgrade (both 2017.3 and 2017.4 seem to be concentrating on Braille and Windows 10, both of which are irrelevant for me at present), but I felt it important to mention it again in case others are still having these issues.
I would post it as an issue on GitHub, except that as far as I’m concerned, that site seems to have made its way down from heaven on Mars. Forget the programming elements and integrations with Git (which is an aeroplane cockpit in and of itself), even posting issues seems to be a full day’s work for me.
Cheers.
Damien.
 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:13 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2017.4 released
 

NV Access is pleased to announce that version 2017.4 of NVDA, the free screen reader for Microsoft Windows, has now been released.

 

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nv-access-announces-availability-of-nvda-2017-4/

 

Highlights of this release include many fixes and enhancements to web support including browse mode for web dialogs by default, better reporting of field group labels in browse mode, support for new Windows 10 technologies such as Windows Defender Application Guard and Windows 10 on ARM64, and automatic reporting of screen orientation and battery status. Please note that this version of NVDA no longer supports Windows XP or Windows Vista. The minimum requirement for NVDA is now windows 7 with Service Pack 1.

 

This award-winning software has been changing the lives of thousands of blind and vision impaired people who can now independently use computers to produce written content, read news, socialise, shop and bank online, and, most importantly, actively participate in education and employment. Please consider helping NV Access to continue this important work by becoming a monthly donor.  Download or update today:

 

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nv-access-announces-availability-of-nvda-2017-4/

 

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Versioned Voice Dictionaries

 

I know the word for for, is now fur and not 4.

I know the word forbid is not 4 bid but furbid once is unce.

button is now buttung.

I think we should use older but faithfull espeak which doesn't have this issue or simply make something that doesn't rely on it.

Whoever develops this is clearly no longer english and is probably using google translate for everything.

On 7/12/2017 12:06 p.m., Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Okay, opened my portable copy of 2017.3 and copied the replacements from
there. Things are mostly back on track, although the Japanese word the
ProTalker synth pronounces wrong in the hiragana couldn't be copy/pasted
into Jarte. It just came up as a line of question marks. But that's not
vitally important to me right now so I'll let that slide for the time being.


On a sort-of related note, though, Why was the pronunciation of the
phrase "for the" and the word "percent" changed in espeakNG? They sound
weird now...
On 7/12/2017 9:45 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
So I just updated to the latest NVDA, and I now have some issues thanks
to the changes with the voice dictionaries. I understand why since
languages in espeak have changed names, but I lost several voice
specific entries and don't remember what I did for them. I tried to fix
one instance and although the pronunciation sounded right in the
dictionary file, it didn't when I read the name in question somewhere
else, although it was apparent some change had been made. This behaviour
has never happened before, and the pronunciation of the replacement has
been consistent in all places. I'm concerned that I might never get this
name pronounced the way I want it again, and I've only tested this with
one entry!




Re: Be careful to Mandarin Espeak

 

Its unlikely espeak itself will actually die as a synth.

Its in android, and linux distros all over the technoverse, its unlikely that espeak itself will die.

However now we have said burger off to xp, and vista, we are also saying screw basically every single core system to.

And with this being done, I question the need for inbuilt synths.

After win7 finally dies, with the good voices out there I question the need especially with the stuff on win10 and faster system of us needing a good synth bar one that is a fallback if something internal fails.

Standard crappy espeak is fine for admin work, it may be crappy but its good if something totally falls over.

There are others, pico which is on android and linux, maybe that could be a default synth I don't know.

But you are right, nvaccess should actually work on its own synth, not based of espeak but its own synth for its own software.

Heck if they want to sell it for sapi at 20 or 30 bucks and maybe other oses I'll buy it but to be honest I do wander.

Espeak will! not! die though, not death as you know it but the devs are clearly not on here.

On 7/12/2017 10:48 a.m., Marco Oros wrote:
There were made some bad misstakes about Mandarin Espeak. I don't know, why, but I think, that some work of Espeak is at the begining.
It'll be maybe good to try create another speech synthesizer, because Espeak will soon be down. This is just my view on It.


.


Re: A Question about Obtaining NVDA:

 

Well any system from 2000 or 2001 up will have a card.

Any system from 1998-7 will have a card but as sepperate card maybe working on drivers maybe not.

I think as long as a system came in 2000 or as low as 99 then you should have cards of some sorts.

If earlier 1997 and higher should still have some sound maybe not multichannel but still sound.

Now any business system 1996 and lower probably doesn't even some machines to 1999 didn't have sound cards.

Or not have them on.

Any system from 1995-3 may or may not have a card at all but then they may it is hard to tell.

Anything lower than that doesn't.

But I wouldn't worry, however it depends on the button, if you can look at it, if its got a crt, and if you push in the button to turn it off and on and it clicks in and out, or there are internal speakers or there are more buttons on the front then maybe.

While gaming and home pcs had sound, way before business units after 2001 or 2002, all systems have on board cards.

Unless your system runs win xp or 2000 though or is quite old well.

Then again I  am sure there are systems without any soundcards at all.

On 7/12/2017 10:18 a.m., Lawrence Stoler wrote:
Thanks, Shaun.


It occurred to me after I sent the original message that many computers
have sound cards.


I've heard them used on other machines but it hasn't come up in my case
as I've been using a machine with one for several years.


Again thank you.


Lawrence Stoler



On 12/6/2017 4:06 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Most computers should have soundcards unless they are really old.

If in doubt atguys.com has a 15 dollar barebones one and you will need
some headphones for it but still.




On 7/12/2017 8:35 a.m., Lawrence Stoler wrote:
Dear NVDA Users Group,


I am one of the many blind people who are unemployed.


There is a place I might be working for on a temporary basis as the
agency here in Connecticut wants to do a work assessment on me since I
have been out of work for a long time.


I have been an Internet user for over 14 years.  I have used and enjoyed
NVDA since 2014 when I first became aware of it.


In addition to being able to download the latest version of NVDA, do I
need a sound card as it will be on a computer that has never been used
by a blind person or can I just download it from the website and go from
there?


Lawrence Stoler

?












Re: links on single line

Gene
 

I don't know why having multiple links read on a line if that is how they are presented on screen is the default.  But having links read on their own line should be the default because that is the one that would generally be used and because new NVDA users and inexperienced Windows users won't even know there is such a setting so it should be set in the way it would generally be used.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] links on single line

i agree! It's a case of someone other than the user trying to cram something down our throats because we should do things like a sighted person does.
 
Andy
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] links on single line

Just one more example of why having links read each link on a separate line should be the default, as I said two or three days ago.  The feature is in browse mode settings.  It's a check box that says use screen layout, if supported.  Uncheck this box and activate the ok button.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Don H
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] links on single line

I am running NVDA 2017-4 on a Win 10 64 bit machine.  I have a web site
where there are multiple links on a single line thus NVDA reads them
together.  If my memory is right there is a way to get NVDA to read this
multi link lines as if each link was separate.  Looked everywhere but
can't find it.
Thanks a




Re: How does NVDA read text boxes?

Quentin Christensen
 

When you write text in Word, or add in a table or many other items, they are placed "in line".  That is you can follow the caret through the document in a linear fashion from the first word through to the end.

Text boxes are placed (by default) outside this regular flow of the document.  The advantage of this (for sighted users) is that you can have a chunk of text which sits separately from the rest of the page.  Sometimes in a magazine for instance, you might have two columns of text on one page, but in between them (and taking up part of each) is a box with text in a different font containing a key quote out of the article.  If you were reading it visually, your eye might jump to that quote before reading the article and it might form part of your decision about whether to read the main article.  Or, you might read the quote in between paragraphs when you are next to it in the article itself, or at the end.  There is no right time to read it.  If you are reading that page with a screen reader, the screen reader doesn't see it in the normal flow of text.  Now, it's true we could possibly do more to look for such text boxes, but we would still need to make some arbitrary decision on when to either read or notify the user about them.

Word's accessibility checker will notify a document creator about non in-line text boxes.  Currently we will find text boxes which have been set in line and these are announced as "slash": https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6134

Overall, it's generally best to try to avoid using text boxes where possible.

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:44 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
I gave up and asked them to take them out, since nobody I knew no matter what screenreader they used seemed to be able to solve the problem either.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Byrne" <annakb@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] How does NVDA read text boxes?


I received a  word document that appeared to be blank.  Turns out it is a series of 15 text boxes of information.  How can I read stinkin' text boxes with NVDA???

Thanks











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Be careful to Mandarin Espeak

 

Well espeak ng this version has a lot more issues with things even in english.

I noticed people having issues with espeak on skype, tyler who is one of the addon devs simply said to report it to espeakng, which is actually just dumb since all espeak ng is is a github page, I don't think they have email I havn't looked, point is do they care exactly.

Its nvaccess that uses espeak ng, and as I said, even though there were good reasons to upgrade synths, unless it breaks we shouldn't fix it.

Espeak 2015 worked, and in some cases better than ng ever did.

Now ng is a lot better I guess once I got used to the word adjustments but really not everyone is going to be a total git, not everyone is going to be that much of a git to report that espeakng is a git and needs fixing.

I still think even if its not default, old espeak whatever version should be included as an extra synth at least an addon or as part of nvda install even if espeak is not developed anymore, even if it will remain as it is for all time, for those that don't like the new datasets, it would fix a lot of user bitchings.

Thing is, the espeak devs were on here.

I don't know if the ng ones are, but I suspect not since none of them have posted here and said as much.

On 7/12/2017 10:07 a.m., Marco Oros wrote:
My worries were confirmed about NVDA's New Espeak NG things. Mandarin is broken down in Espeak. I don't know, where to report It.

Thank You.

Marco Oros



.


Re: Can NVDA 2017.4 run on Windows IOT?

 

Hi,
Clarification: I do know that my previous message may sound harsh or
outright not helpful. But I think it is sometimes helpful to let folks
answer their own questions through careful reading and research. Thus, my
message below is intentional. Once people figure out the answer, I'll give
you the official answer.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph
Lee
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 4:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can NVDA 2017.4 run on Windows IOT?

Hi,
Let's try this method: can a car run without an engine? I want folks to find
out the answer on their own this time please.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pranav
Lal
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 4:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Can NVDA 2017.4 run on Windows IOT?

Hi all,

Given that NVDA now supports arm 64 windows, can it run on Windows IOT
running on a raspberry pi 3?

Pranav


Re: links on single line

Gene
 

I haven't worked with online discussion forums enough to say much but I've seen some comments that forums are easier to work with.  But in general, it's better to have links read on their own line.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Mary Otten
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] links on single line

This brings up the question of why preserving screen layout is a good idea. I mean, maybe that has to do with working with sighted colleagues? But if that's the only reason, then I'm definitely turning it off as of little to no use.


Mary


On 12/6/2017 4:43 PM, Gene wrote:
Just one more example of why having links read each link on a separate line should be the default, as I said two or three days ago.  The feature is in browse mode settings.  It's a check box that says use screen layout, if supported.  Uncheck this box and activate the ok button.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Don H
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] links on single line

I am running NVDA 2017-4 on a Win 10 64 bit machine.  I have a web site
where there are multiple links on a single line thus NVDA reads them
together.  If my memory is right there is a way to get NVDA to read this
multi link lines as if each link was separate.  Looked everywhere but
can't find it.
Thanks a





Re: Can NVDA 2017.4 run on Windows IOT?

 

Hi,
Let's try this method: can a car run without an engine? I want folks to find
out the answer on their own this time please.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pranav
Lal
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 4:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Can NVDA 2017.4 run on Windows IOT?

Hi all,

Given that NVDA now supports arm 64 windows, can it run on Windows IOT
running on a raspberry pi 3?

Pranav


Re: links on single line

Andy
 


i agree! It's a case of someone other than the user trying to cram something down our throats because we should do things like a sighted person does.
 
Andy
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] links on single line

Just one more example of why having links read each link on a separate line should be the default, as I said two or three days ago.  The feature is in browse mode settings.  It's a check box that says use screen layout, if supported.  Uncheck this box and activate the ok button.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Don H
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] links on single line

I am running NVDA 2017-4 on a Win 10 64 bit machine.  I have a web site
where there are multiple links on a single line thus NVDA reads them
together.  If my memory is right there is a way to get NVDA to read this
multi link lines as if each link was separate.  Looked everywhere but
can't find it.
Thanks a




Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Lenron
 

um what you can get a pretty nice 250 gb SSD for 80 bucks.

On 12/6/17, David Moore <jesusloves1966@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes LOL!
It is because SSD drives are pretty complicated when it comes to installing
software on the drive. Thumb drives, are just so much less complicated,
because you are not installing the OS on them.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Don H
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than
before

Never understood that you can buy a 128 Gig thumb drive for less than 30
bucks yet a 128 Gig SSD cost several hundred bucks.





--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762


Re: links on single line

Mary Otten
 

This brings up the question of why preserving screen layout is a good idea. I mean, maybe that has to do with working with sighted colleagues? But if that's the only reason, then I'm definitely turning it off as of little to no use.


Mary


On 12/6/2017 4:43 PM, Gene wrote:
Just one more example of why having links read each link on a separate line should be the default, as I said two or three days ago.  The feature is in browse mode settings.  It's a check box that says use screen layout, if supported.  Uncheck this box and activate the ok button.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Don H
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] links on single line

I am running NVDA 2017-4 on a Win 10 64 bit machine.  I have a web site
where there are multiple links on a single line thus NVDA reads them
together.  If my memory is right there is a way to get NVDA to read this
multi link lines as if each link was separate.  Looked everywhere but
can't find it.
Thanks a





Re: links on single line

Sam Taylor
 

Hi Don,

Toggle Preserve screen layout, NVDA+V.

Cheers

Sam       


On 7/12/2017 10:25 am, Don H wrote:
I am running NVDA 2017-4 on a Win 10 64 bit machine.  I have a web site where there are multiple links on a single line thus NVDA reads them together.  If my memory is right there is a way to get NVDA to read this multi link lines as if each link was separate.  Looked everywhere but can't find it.
Thanks a





Re: question re nvaccess site and training materials

Gene
 

Why does it skip?  That sounds like an NVDA problem to be corrected.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] question re nvaccess site and training materials

Hi Mary,

How are you moving around the site?

If you press down arrow from the top of the page, it will move to the "home" link, and from there directly to the "donate" button (skipping the rest of the navigation bar, which contains the shop link).  If you press TAB, K, or use the elements list dialog, the "shop" link should be after, Home, About, Download, Get Help, Services and Support Us.

That behaviour (for me) is consistent across Firefox (ESR), Chrome, Internet Explorer and Edge.

For your other question, this eBook version of the training module includes the following formats:
.epub: An electronic book format readable in many standalone book readers as well as book reading apps on smartphones and computers.
.html: A web page readable in any web browser
.docx: A Microsoft Word file
.kfx: Used in Amazon Kindle readers and the Kindle app for PC (version 1.19 or later required)

(That information is on the individual page for each module, the main shop page just has a shorter blurb for each item).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 2:34 AM, Mary Otten <maryotten@...> wrote:
I suppose this is mostly directed at Quenton. My experience with the access site is that I absolutely can't get to the "shop" link using firefox esr version, but with IE11, it is easy. Why might that be? I mean, I can't even find it with the find command when using ff.


also, with regard to the  ebooks for Word and the basic training materials, what format are those in? I didn't see that mentioned on the training materials page.


Thanks.


Mary







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess