Date   

Re: NVDA 2017.4 released

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Damien,

Can you give me a quick refresher please on your text field issue?  (steps to reproduce etc) and I'll look into it.

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Damien Sykes <damien@...> wrote:
Hi Quentin,
Unfortunately, I’m still seeing the text field related lags I mentioned after the release of 2017.3 (namely announcements of text highlighting, beginning/end of document/field messages etc). Luckily for me there was nothing seriously important for me to need to upgrade (both 2017.3 and 2017.4 seem to be concentrating on Braille and Windows 10, both of which are irrelevant for me at present), but I felt it important to mention it again in case others are still having these issues.
I would post it as an issue on GitHub, except that as far as I’m concerned, that site seems to have made its way down from heaven on Mars. Forget the programming elements and integrations with Git (which is an aeroplane cockpit in and of itself), even posting issues seems to be a full day’s work for me.
Cheers.
Damien.
 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:13 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2017.4 released
 

NV Access is pleased to announce that version 2017.4 of NVDA, the free screen reader for Microsoft Windows, has now been released.

 

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nv-access-announces-availability-of-nvda-2017-4/

 

Highlights of this release include many fixes and enhancements to web support including browse mode for web dialogs by default, better reporting of field group labels in browse mode, support for new Windows 10 technologies such as Windows Defender Application Guard and Windows 10 on ARM64, and automatic reporting of screen orientation and battery status. Please note that this version of NVDA no longer supports Windows XP or Windows Vista. The minimum requirement for NVDA is now windows 7 with Service Pack 1.

 

This award-winning software has been changing the lives of thousands of blind and vision impaired people who can now independently use computers to produce written content, read news, socialise, shop and bank online, and, most importantly, actively participate in education and employment. Please consider helping NV Access to continue this important work by becoming a monthly donor.  Download or update today:

 

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nv-access-announces-availability-of-nvda-2017-4/

 

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Versioned Voice Dictionaries

 

I know the word for for, is now fur and not 4.

I know the word forbid is not 4 bid but furbid once is unce.

button is now buttung.

I think we should use older but faithfull espeak which doesn't have this issue or simply make something that doesn't rely on it.

Whoever develops this is clearly no longer english and is probably using google translate for everything.

On 7/12/2017 12:06 p.m., Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
Okay, opened my portable copy of 2017.3 and copied the replacements from
there. Things are mostly back on track, although the Japanese word the
ProTalker synth pronounces wrong in the hiragana couldn't be copy/pasted
into Jarte. It just came up as a line of question marks. But that's not
vitally important to me right now so I'll let that slide for the time being.


On a sort-of related note, though, Why was the pronunciation of the
phrase "for the" and the word "percent" changed in espeakNG? They sound
weird now...
On 7/12/2017 9:45 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
So I just updated to the latest NVDA, and I now have some issues thanks
to the changes with the voice dictionaries. I understand why since
languages in espeak have changed names, but I lost several voice
specific entries and don't remember what I did for them. I tried to fix
one instance and although the pronunciation sounded right in the
dictionary file, it didn't when I read the name in question somewhere
else, although it was apparent some change had been made. This behaviour
has never happened before, and the pronunciation of the replacement has
been consistent in all places. I'm concerned that I might never get this
name pronounced the way I want it again, and I've only tested this with
one entry!




Re: Be careful to Mandarin Espeak

 

Its unlikely espeak itself will actually die as a synth.

Its in android, and linux distros all over the technoverse, its unlikely that espeak itself will die.

However now we have said burger off to xp, and vista, we are also saying screw basically every single core system to.

And with this being done, I question the need for inbuilt synths.

After win7 finally dies, with the good voices out there I question the need especially with the stuff on win10 and faster system of us needing a good synth bar one that is a fallback if something internal fails.

Standard crappy espeak is fine for admin work, it may be crappy but its good if something totally falls over.

There are others, pico which is on android and linux, maybe that could be a default synth I don't know.

But you are right, nvaccess should actually work on its own synth, not based of espeak but its own synth for its own software.

Heck if they want to sell it for sapi at 20 or 30 bucks and maybe other oses I'll buy it but to be honest I do wander.

Espeak will! not! die though, not death as you know it but the devs are clearly not on here.

On 7/12/2017 10:48 a.m., Marco Oros wrote:
There were made some bad misstakes about Mandarin Espeak. I don't know, why, but I think, that some work of Espeak is at the begining.
It'll be maybe good to try create another speech synthesizer, because Espeak will soon be down. This is just my view on It.


.


Re: A Question about Obtaining NVDA:

 

Well any system from 2000 or 2001 up will have a card.

Any system from 1998-7 will have a card but as sepperate card maybe working on drivers maybe not.

I think as long as a system came in 2000 or as low as 99 then you should have cards of some sorts.

If earlier 1997 and higher should still have some sound maybe not multichannel but still sound.

Now any business system 1996 and lower probably doesn't even some machines to 1999 didn't have sound cards.

Or not have them on.

Any system from 1995-3 may or may not have a card at all but then they may it is hard to tell.

Anything lower than that doesn't.

But I wouldn't worry, however it depends on the button, if you can look at it, if its got a crt, and if you push in the button to turn it off and on and it clicks in and out, or there are internal speakers or there are more buttons on the front then maybe.

While gaming and home pcs had sound, way before business units after 2001 or 2002, all systems have on board cards.

Unless your system runs win xp or 2000 though or is quite old well.

Then again I  am sure there are systems without any soundcards at all.

On 7/12/2017 10:18 a.m., Lawrence Stoler wrote:
Thanks, Shaun.


It occurred to me after I sent the original message that many computers
have sound cards.


I've heard them used on other machines but it hasn't come up in my case
as I've been using a machine with one for several years.


Again thank you.


Lawrence Stoler



On 12/6/2017 4:06 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Most computers should have soundcards unless they are really old.

If in doubt atguys.com has a 15 dollar barebones one and you will need
some headphones for it but still.




On 7/12/2017 8:35 a.m., Lawrence Stoler wrote:
Dear NVDA Users Group,


I am one of the many blind people who are unemployed.


There is a place I might be working for on a temporary basis as the
agency here in Connecticut wants to do a work assessment on me since I
have been out of work for a long time.


I have been an Internet user for over 14 years.  I have used and enjoyed
NVDA since 2014 when I first became aware of it.


In addition to being able to download the latest version of NVDA, do I
need a sound card as it will be on a computer that has never been used
by a blind person or can I just download it from the website and go from
there?


Lawrence Stoler

?












Re: links on single line

Gene
 

I don't know why having multiple links read on a line if that is how they are presented on screen is the default.  But having links read on their own line should be the default because that is the one that would generally be used and because new NVDA users and inexperienced Windows users won't even know there is such a setting so it should be set in the way it would generally be used.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] links on single line

i agree! It's a case of someone other than the user trying to cram something down our throats because we should do things like a sighted person does.
 
Andy
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] links on single line

Just one more example of why having links read each link on a separate line should be the default, as I said two or three days ago.  The feature is in browse mode settings.  It's a check box that says use screen layout, if supported.  Uncheck this box and activate the ok button.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Don H
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] links on single line

I am running NVDA 2017-4 on a Win 10 64 bit machine.  I have a web site
where there are multiple links on a single line thus NVDA reads them
together.  If my memory is right there is a way to get NVDA to read this
multi link lines as if each link was separate.  Looked everywhere but
can't find it.
Thanks a




Re: How does NVDA read text boxes?

Quentin Christensen
 

When you write text in Word, or add in a table or many other items, they are placed "in line".  That is you can follow the caret through the document in a linear fashion from the first word through to the end.

Text boxes are placed (by default) outside this regular flow of the document.  The advantage of this (for sighted users) is that you can have a chunk of text which sits separately from the rest of the page.  Sometimes in a magazine for instance, you might have two columns of text on one page, but in between them (and taking up part of each) is a box with text in a different font containing a key quote out of the article.  If you were reading it visually, your eye might jump to that quote before reading the article and it might form part of your decision about whether to read the main article.  Or, you might read the quote in between paragraphs when you are next to it in the article itself, or at the end.  There is no right time to read it.  If you are reading that page with a screen reader, the screen reader doesn't see it in the normal flow of text.  Now, it's true we could possibly do more to look for such text boxes, but we would still need to make some arbitrary decision on when to either read or notify the user about them.

Word's accessibility checker will notify a document creator about non in-line text boxes.  Currently we will find text boxes which have been set in line and these are announced as "slash": https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6134

Overall, it's generally best to try to avoid using text boxes where possible.

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:44 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
I gave up and asked them to take them out, since nobody I knew no matter what screenreader they used seemed to be able to solve the problem either.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Byrne" <annakb@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] How does NVDA read text boxes?


I received a  word document that appeared to be blank.  Turns out it is a series of 15 text boxes of information.  How can I read stinkin' text boxes with NVDA???

Thanks











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Be careful to Mandarin Espeak

 

Well espeak ng this version has a lot more issues with things even in english.

I noticed people having issues with espeak on skype, tyler who is one of the addon devs simply said to report it to espeakng, which is actually just dumb since all espeak ng is is a github page, I don't think they have email I havn't looked, point is do they care exactly.

Its nvaccess that uses espeak ng, and as I said, even though there were good reasons to upgrade synths, unless it breaks we shouldn't fix it.

Espeak 2015 worked, and in some cases better than ng ever did.

Now ng is a lot better I guess once I got used to the word adjustments but really not everyone is going to be a total git, not everyone is going to be that much of a git to report that espeakng is a git and needs fixing.

I still think even if its not default, old espeak whatever version should be included as an extra synth at least an addon or as part of nvda install even if espeak is not developed anymore, even if it will remain as it is for all time, for those that don't like the new datasets, it would fix a lot of user bitchings.

Thing is, the espeak devs were on here.

I don't know if the ng ones are, but I suspect not since none of them have posted here and said as much.

On 7/12/2017 10:07 a.m., Marco Oros wrote:
My worries were confirmed about NVDA's New Espeak NG things. Mandarin is broken down in Espeak. I don't know, where to report It.

Thank You.

Marco Oros



.


Re: Can NVDA 2017.4 run on Windows IOT?

 

Hi,
Clarification: I do know that my previous message may sound harsh or
outright not helpful. But I think it is sometimes helpful to let folks
answer their own questions through careful reading and research. Thus, my
message below is intentional. Once people figure out the answer, I'll give
you the official answer.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph
Lee
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 4:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can NVDA 2017.4 run on Windows IOT?

Hi,
Let's try this method: can a car run without an engine? I want folks to find
out the answer on their own this time please.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pranav
Lal
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 4:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Can NVDA 2017.4 run on Windows IOT?

Hi all,

Given that NVDA now supports arm 64 windows, can it run on Windows IOT
running on a raspberry pi 3?

Pranav


Re: links on single line

Gene
 

I haven't worked with online discussion forums enough to say much but I've seen some comments that forums are easier to work with.  But in general, it's better to have links read on their own line.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Mary Otten
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] links on single line

This brings up the question of why preserving screen layout is a good idea. I mean, maybe that has to do with working with sighted colleagues? But if that's the only reason, then I'm definitely turning it off as of little to no use.


Mary


On 12/6/2017 4:43 PM, Gene wrote:
Just one more example of why having links read each link on a separate line should be the default, as I said two or three days ago.  The feature is in browse mode settings.  It's a check box that says use screen layout, if supported.  Uncheck this box and activate the ok button.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Don H
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] links on single line

I am running NVDA 2017-4 on a Win 10 64 bit machine.  I have a web site
where there are multiple links on a single line thus NVDA reads them
together.  If my memory is right there is a way to get NVDA to read this
multi link lines as if each link was separate.  Looked everywhere but
can't find it.
Thanks a





Re: Can NVDA 2017.4 run on Windows IOT?

 

Hi,
Let's try this method: can a car run without an engine? I want folks to find
out the answer on their own this time please.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pranav
Lal
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 4:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Can NVDA 2017.4 run on Windows IOT?

Hi all,

Given that NVDA now supports arm 64 windows, can it run on Windows IOT
running on a raspberry pi 3?

Pranav


Re: links on single line

Andy
 


i agree! It's a case of someone other than the user trying to cram something down our throats because we should do things like a sighted person does.
 
Andy
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] links on single line

Just one more example of why having links read each link on a separate line should be the default, as I said two or three days ago.  The feature is in browse mode settings.  It's a check box that says use screen layout, if supported.  Uncheck this box and activate the ok button.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Don H
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] links on single line

I am running NVDA 2017-4 on a Win 10 64 bit machine.  I have a web site
where there are multiple links on a single line thus NVDA reads them
together.  If my memory is right there is a way to get NVDA to read this
multi link lines as if each link was separate.  Looked everywhere but
can't find it.
Thanks a




Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Lenron
 

um what you can get a pretty nice 250 gb SSD for 80 bucks.

On 12/6/17, David Moore <jesusloves1966@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes LOL!
It is because SSD drives are pretty complicated when it comes to installing
software on the drive. Thumb drives, are just so much less complicated,
because you are not installing the OS on them.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Don H
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than
before

Never understood that you can buy a 128 Gig thumb drive for less than 30
bucks yet a 128 Gig SSD cost several hundred bucks.





--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762


Re: links on single line

Mary Otten
 

This brings up the question of why preserving screen layout is a good idea. I mean, maybe that has to do with working with sighted colleagues? But if that's the only reason, then I'm definitely turning it off as of little to no use.


Mary


On 12/6/2017 4:43 PM, Gene wrote:
Just one more example of why having links read each link on a separate line should be the default, as I said two or three days ago.  The feature is in browse mode settings.  It's a check box that says use screen layout, if supported.  Uncheck this box and activate the ok button.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Don H
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] links on single line

I am running NVDA 2017-4 on a Win 10 64 bit machine.  I have a web site
where there are multiple links on a single line thus NVDA reads them
together.  If my memory is right there is a way to get NVDA to read this
multi link lines as if each link was separate.  Looked everywhere but
can't find it.
Thanks a





Re: links on single line

Sam Taylor
 

Hi Don,

Toggle Preserve screen layout, NVDA+V.

Cheers

Sam       


On 7/12/2017 10:25 am, Don H wrote:
I am running NVDA 2017-4 on a Win 10 64 bit machine.  I have a web site where there are multiple links on a single line thus NVDA reads them together.  If my memory is right there is a way to get NVDA to read this multi link lines as if each link was separate.  Looked everywhere but can't find it.
Thanks a





Re: question re nvaccess site and training materials

Gene
 

Why does it skip?  That sounds like an NVDA problem to be corrected.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] question re nvaccess site and training materials

Hi Mary,

How are you moving around the site?

If you press down arrow from the top of the page, it will move to the "home" link, and from there directly to the "donate" button (skipping the rest of the navigation bar, which contains the shop link).  If you press TAB, K, or use the elements list dialog, the "shop" link should be after, Home, About, Download, Get Help, Services and Support Us.

That behaviour (for me) is consistent across Firefox (ESR), Chrome, Internet Explorer and Edge.

For your other question, this eBook version of the training module includes the following formats:
.epub: An electronic book format readable in many standalone book readers as well as book reading apps on smartphones and computers.
.html: A web page readable in any web browser
.docx: A Microsoft Word file
.kfx: Used in Amazon Kindle readers and the Kindle app for PC (version 1.19 or later required)

(That information is on the individual page for each module, the main shop page just has a shorter blurb for each item).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 2:34 AM, Mary Otten <maryotten@...> wrote:
I suppose this is mostly directed at Quenton. My experience with the access site is that I absolutely can't get to the "shop" link using firefox esr version, but with IE11, it is easy. Why might that be? I mean, I can't even find it with the find command when using ff.


also, with regard to the  ebooks for Word and the basic training materials, what format are those in? I didn't see that mentioned on the training materials page.


Thanks.


Mary







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: question re nvaccess site and training materials

Mary Otten
 

Hi Quenton,

I am pretty sure I was tabbing. I know that's what I did in ie, and I think that's how I started out in FF, but then also tried down arrow, which didn't work. I will try tab again, however. It seems like you've surely got all the formats covered for the e-books. BTW, any plans for something specific for Outlook? Or do you feel it isn't necessary?



On 12/6/2017 4:32 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
> Hi Mary, > > How are you moving around the site? > > If you press down arrow from the top of the page, it will move to the > "home" link, and from there directly to the "donate" button (skipping > the rest of the navigation bar, which contains the shop link). If > you press TAB, K, or use the elements list dialog, the "shop" link > should be after, Home, About, Download, Get Help, Services and > Support Us. > > That behaviour (for me) is consistent across Firefox (ESR), Chrome, > Internet Explorer and Edge. > > For your other question, this eBook version of the training module > includes the following formats: .epub: An electronic book format > readable in many standalone book readers as well as book reading apps > on smartphones and computers. .html: A web page readable in any web > browser .docx: A Microsoft Word file .kfx: Used in Amazon Kindle > readers and the Kindle app for PC (version 1.19 or later required) > > (That information is on the individual page for each module, the main > shop page just has a shorter blurb for each item). > > Kind regards > > Quentin. > > On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 2:34 AM, Mary Otten <maryotten@... > <mailto:maryotten@...>> wrote: > > I suppose this is mostly directed at Quenton. My experience with the > access site is that I absolutely can't get to the "shop" link using > firefox esr version, but with IE11, it is easy. Why might that be? I > mean, I can't even find it with the find command when using ff. > > > also, with regard to the ebooks for Word and the basic training > materials, what format are those in? I didn't see that mentioned on > the training materials page. > > > Thanks. > > > Mary > > > > > > > > -- Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager > > Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now > available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ > > www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/> Facebook: > http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Hi Quenton,

I think I started out in FF by tabbing. I know I also tried the find feature, and I tried arrowing. In ie, tab worked just fine. I will try tab again in FF.

It sounds like you have all the format bases covered for the training materials. Any thought of an Outlook module?

Mary


Re: links on single line

Gene
 

Just one more example of why having links read each link on a separate line should be the default, as I said two or three days ago.  The feature is in browse mode settings.  It's a check box that says use screen layout, if supported.  Uncheck this box and activate the ok button.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Don H
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] links on single line

I am running NVDA 2017-4 on a Win 10 64 bit machine.  I have a web site
where there are multiple links on a single line thus NVDA reads them
together.  If my memory is right there is a way to get NVDA to read this
multi link lines as if each link was separate.  Looked everywhere but
can't find it.
Thanks a




Re: Browsing hierarchical tree of comments

Gene
 

I ask a question in this message and make a few comments but the second half of the message discusses what might be a related command, at least in terms of how you would program it.  Perhaps if there is enough interest on the list, the developers will work on it soon. 
 
The review cursor by default if you are using object navigation follows the system cursor.  But what I'm saying is if you only want to read the top level comments, then don't you have to move to every comment and measure the distance?  My question is how that is better than reading a few words of each comment to see if you want to continue.  But maybe you have to read enough of each comment that it is slower enough to matter. 
 
Evidently, the speak position command has more functions than in the old version of NVDA I use.  So you are correct that to hear the numbers, you have to issue the command twice.
Also, the idea of being able to jump to the next occurrence of text starting a certain point from the left of the screen might be related to another feature NVDA should have.  If you have a page with two or three columns or more and you want to only read one column, you should be able to define a start point and an end point farther to the right.  Then you could read and only have that defineed column read.  ASAP had a read column feature in JAWS.  I seldo had to use it but I would imagine it was very useful to some people,  Consider one use with NVDA:
Suppose you got a poorly formatted PDF document where pages didn't decolumnize properly.  Rather than have decolumnization occur, if you could just have the page recognized with no decolumnization and set the columns yourself, you might be able to read such documents. 
 
Genea distance from the left of the screen

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments

I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works, but it works for me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in Google Chrome and Firefox. I don't have to press any extra buttons to route the review cursor, perhaps the review cursor just follows the system cursor in my case.


After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once, and it indeed speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I assume) pixels. After pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal offset in percentage of the screen width. So either way can be used.


I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump between paragraphs with the same offset. I might try to write such a plugin myself when I have some free time.


Tony



On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote:
I haven't tried this but I don't see how using the cursor location feature would help much.  You would still have to move to the beginning of each comment and check the distance.  If that would save you time in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know but having to move to the next comment and check the distance of each comment would seem to be cumbersome and perhaps not much easier than reading a bit of each comment to see if it’s a reply.  but those who try this may explain that I'm wrong and why. 
 
Perhaps what we need, if this can be done, is a feature or a plugin you can set to look for text that starts a certain distance from the left side of the screen and then be able to jump to the next text that starts at the same number of pixels from the left of the screen.  You could issue a next and a back command to move to these items.  So the idea may lead to a good solution if such a feature can be developed.
 
By the way, you don't have to issue the command twice.  It does the same thing if issued once or more times.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments

I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple solution: press
Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor location) and it will
tell you the distance from the left edge of the screen. The greater the
distance - the deeper the level of the comment.


I think in theory something can be done on the client side to make the
comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write a browser
plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the comment
explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge of
javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it myself.


Tony





On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill Dengler wrote:
> I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires changes on the site’s end.
>
> Bill
>
>> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Many websites have tree-like structure of comments. For
>> example, reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are
>> like this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for
>> example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not the
>> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the top-level
>> comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is there any way
>> to achieve this with NVDA?
>>
>> So, for example, I would like to have a key combination to jump to the
>> next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to the next comment
>> of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or something, that
>> appears next to every comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind
>> what level comment is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this way.
>>
>> Another way that might help me would be to figure out the level of the
>> current comment. At least I'd be able to move down through the
>> comments without reading them and without trying to deduce its level
>> from the contents.
>>
>> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE, so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these browsers.
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated!
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>





Re: Browsing hierarchical tree of comments

David Moore
 

Yes, the review cursor does follow the focus by default.

You have to turn that off if you do not want it.

If you go to the review cursor under the preferences menu, the first check box will be to check have review cursor follow the focus. If that is unchecked, you need to check that.

Have a great one!

That is why it works for you.

I am so happy you are using NVDA. Please ask any questions at all about add ons or anything.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Tony Malykh
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 7:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments

 

I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works, but it works for me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in Google Chrome and Firefox. I don't have to press any extra buttons to route the review cursor, perhaps the review cursor just follows the system cursor in my case.

 

After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once, and it indeed speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I assume) pixels. After pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal offset in percentage of the screen width. So either way can be used.

 

I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump between paragraphs with the same offset. I might try to write such a plugin myself when I have some free time.

 

Tony

 

 

On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote:

I haven't tried this but I don't see how using the cursor location feature would help much.  You would still have to move to the beginning of each comment and check the distance.  If that would save you time in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know but having to move to the next comment and check the distance of each comment would seem to be cumbersome and perhaps not much easier than reading a bit of each comment to see if it’s a reply.  but those who try this may explain that I'm wrong and why. 

 

Perhaps what we need, if this can be done, is a feature or a plugin you can set to look for text that starts a certain distance from the left side of the screen and then be able to jump to the next text that starts at the same number of pixels from the left of the screen.  You could issue a next and a back command to move to these items.  So the idea may lead to a good solution if such a feature can be developed.

 

By the way, you don't have to issue the command twice.  It does the same thing if issued once or more times.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments

 

I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple solution: press
Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor location) and it will
tell you the distance from the left edge of the screen. The greater the
distance - the deeper the level of the comment.


I think in theory something can be done on the client side to make the
comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write a browser
plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the comment
explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge of
javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it myself.


Tony





On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill Dengler wrote:
> I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires changes on the site’s end.
>
> Bill
>
>> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Many websites have tree-like structure of comments. For
>> example, reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are
>> like this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for
>> example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not the
>> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the top-level
>> comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is there any way
>> to achieve this with NVDA?
>>
>> So, for example, I would like to have a key combination to jump to the
>> next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to the next comment
>> of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or something, that
>> appears next to every comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind
>> what level comment is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this way.
>>
>> Another way that might help me would be to figure out the level of the
>> current comment. At least I'd be able to move down through the
>> comments without reading them and without trying to deduce its level
>> from the contents.
>>
>> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE, so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these browsers.
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated!
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>


 

 


Re: question re nvaccess site and training materials

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Mary,

How are you moving around the site?

If you press down arrow from the top of the page, it will move to the "home" link, and from there directly to the "donate" button (skipping the rest of the navigation bar, which contains the shop link).  If you press TAB, K, or use the elements list dialog, the "shop" link should be after, Home, About, Download, Get Help, Services and Support Us.

That behaviour (for me) is consistent across Firefox (ESR), Chrome, Internet Explorer and Edge.

For your other question, this eBook version of the training module includes the following formats:
.epub: An electronic book format readable in many standalone book readers as well as book reading apps on smartphones and computers.
.html: A web page readable in any web browser
.docx: A Microsoft Word file
.kfx: Used in Amazon Kindle readers and the Kindle app for PC (version 1.19 or later required)

(That information is on the individual page for each module, the main shop page just has a shorter blurb for each item).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 2:34 AM, Mary Otten <maryotten@...> wrote:
I suppose this is mostly directed at Quenton. My experience with the access site is that I absolutely can't get to the "shop" link using firefox esr version, but with IE11, it is easy. Why might that be? I mean, I can't even find it with the find command when using ff.


also, with regard to the  ebooks for Word and the basic training materials, what format are those in? I didn't see that mentioned on the training materials page.


Thanks.


Mary







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

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