I updated NVDA this morning and have been periodically jarred out of my
reading by things being pronounced differently, and in my opinion,
unnecessarily so. For example, the phrases "for the" and "for a" are
pronounced with unnecessary emphasis on the first word in them, the "i"
in possible is annunciated more clearly than I feel it should be, the
word "fantasy" has more emphasis on the first syllable than it needs and
sounds slower as a result, words like "latest" sound like they end with
"ist" instead of "est" (I don't understand this one at all, as they were
pronounced just fine before), and words that end with n or an n sound
followed by a word beginning with a hard c or g sound as if they're
being smushed together ("in games" comes out sounding like "ing games").
Also, words like "they're" and "our" are more drawn out than they should
be. It's honestly distracting and I don't think I'll ever get used to
most of them to be perfectly frank.

Well, to those who need the answer, that you got the information out there
is as important a part of the process as Tyler in tracking it down. A team
effort :)

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Damien Sykes <damien@...>
wrote:

Hi,
Actually, Tyler did all the tracking down, I simply put it out here for
people to understand what was going on. I still don’t quite understand
the
magnitude of the issue myself. I noticed the issue, Tyler told me what it
was and how to change it, I changed it and verified that it worked, I
“published”, if you will, the results.
Cheers.
Damien.

*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 07, 2017 1:27 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Navigating Text since NVDA 2017.3

Damien,

Well tracked down :)

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Damien Sykes
<damien@...

wrote:

Hi guys,
For anyone like me who has noticed the text lag and wonders why. The
following came from Tyler Spivey, who helped me resolve this strange
conundrum.
It actually appears that NVDA has always had some reason or other to
have
to wait a predetermined amount of time for the cursor to move in order
to
read whatever new information is under the cursor, or to inform of
highlighted text, or if no change has occurred, to state the fact that
we
are at the beginning or end of the field. Until 2017.3, this was 30
milliseconds, a time so short that you would hardly notice it.

An entry in the change log for 2017.3 reads:
• In editable text, when moving the caret (e.g. with the cursor keys or
backspace), NVDA's spoken feedback is now more accurate in many cases,
particularly in Chrome and terminal applications.

In fact, one of the ways this seems to have been resolved was to
increase
the cursor wait time from 30 to 100 milliseconds, which may not seem
much
but is in fact a 230% increase. This means that people who are well
tuned
in to how NVDA read data previously, and perhaps more importantly rely
on
speed, will notice this change.
This is all apparently covered on GitHub, which, as far as I’m concerned
isn’t really a user-friendly platform (that’s to say it’s meant for
developers, and expert ones at that, which means you’re going to see a
lot
of technical jargon). Some may argue that this issue is a very fine line
between a development technicality and usability, and since I seem to
have
been the only one who cared or even noticed this, I’m inclined to agree.
But at least it’s out there now.
So, to summarise:
1. This is actually intended behaviour.
2. You can change it, but you have to know how and where it’s stored.
It’s not in the configuration dialogs. Some may not even find it worth
the
effort – I only did because it ground straight through my sensitive
teeth
and pounded through my skull.
3. If you change it, be aware that you may not get the improved accuracy
stated in the change log entry quoted above.
Cheers.
Damien.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

Well, to those who need the answer, that you got the information out there
is as important a part of the process as Tyler in tracking it down. A team
effort :)

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Damien Sykes <damien@...>
wrote:

Hi,
Actually, Tyler did all the tracking down, I simply put it out here for
people to understand what was going on. I still don’t quite understand
the
magnitude of the issue myself. I noticed the issue, Tyler told me what it
was and how to change it, I changed it and verified that it worked, I
“published”, if you will, the results.
Cheers.
Damien.

*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 07, 2017 1:27 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Navigating Text since NVDA 2017.3

Damien,

Well tracked down :)

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Damien Sykes
<damien@...

wrote:

Hi guys,
For anyone like me who has noticed the text lag and wonders why. The
following came from Tyler Spivey, who helped me resolve this strange
conundrum.
It actually appears that NVDA has always had some reason or other to
have
to wait a predetermined amount of time for the cursor to move in order
to
read whatever new information is under the cursor, or to inform of
highlighted text, or if no change has occurred, to state the fact that
we
are at the beginning or end of the field. Until 2017.3, this was 30
milliseconds, a time so short that you would hardly notice it.

An entry in the change log for 2017.3 reads:
• In editable text, when moving the caret (e.g. with the cursor keys or
backspace), NVDA's spoken feedback is now more accurate in many cases,
particularly in Chrome and terminal applications.

In fact, one of the ways this seems to have been resolved was to
increase
the cursor wait time from 30 to 100 milliseconds, which may not seem
much
but is in fact a 230% increase. This means that people who are well
tuned
in to how NVDA read data previously, and perhaps more importantly rely
on
speed, will notice this change.
This is all apparently covered on GitHub, which, as far as I’m concerned
isn’t really a user-friendly platform (that’s to say it’s meant for
developers, and expert ones at that, which means you’re going to see a
lot
of technical jargon). Some may argue that this issue is a very fine line
between a development technicality and usability, and since I seem to
have
been the only one who cared or even noticed this, I’m inclined to agree.
But at least it’s out there now.
So, to summarise:
1. This is actually intended behaviour.
2. You can change it, but you have to know how and where it’s stored.
It’s not in the configuration dialogs. Some may not even find it worth
the
effort – I only did because it ground straight through my sensitive
teeth
and pounded through my skull.
3. If you change it, be aware that you may not get the improved accuracy
stated in the change log entry quoted above.
Cheers.
Damien.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

just curious, why would you want to run a snap shot?
i typically tell people to run the stable versions.

-----Original Message----- From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 12:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] updating to the latest snap, but still waiting for the update to finish

Ok, I retarted my computer using the command prompt and all worked. I have no clue what happened, or why but I hoep what ever happened does not happen again. Any clue as to what went on? The update worked this time.

Take care

On Dec 6, 2017, at 9:55 PM, Sarah Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I think I have a very broken nvda update. I followed the directions. The update downloaded, however  I still hear the beeps saying it's updating etc et etc. I tried to close out but no joy. Narrator is not telling me much either. Running nvda latest snap on windows 10 pro..

Take care all.

They mostly use that chip in tablets and some low end laptops.

On Dec 6, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Gene New Zealand
<hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

Hi Joseph



What are these ram thing you are talking about? Is it like the
processor that they used on the RT versions of windows but modified?



Are they the ones found on window phones etc?



Gene nz




On 12/7/2017 7:30 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

Another advisory/directive, this time a notice concerning a new
technology in Windows 10:

If you come across Windows 10 on ARM (always connected PC’s) and
wish to use NVDA on it, you need to install 2017.4 or later. NVDA
2017.4 will recognize these PC’s as running Windows 10 64-bit,
though performance won’t be as smooth as Windows 10 on x64 processors for now.

Cheers,
Joseph

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related
material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
<http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/> Regardless of where you are in
New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy
of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out
which locations (or location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
<http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries>
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert
near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/
<https://certification.nvaccess.org/>. The certification page
contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around
the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

On Dec 6, 2017, at 9:55 PM, Sarah Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I think I have a very broken nvda update. I followed the directions. The update downloaded, however I still hear the beeps saying it's updating etc et etc. I tried to close out but no joy. Narrator is not telling me much either. Running nvda latest snap on windows 10 pro..

Take care all.

On Dec 6, 2017, at 9:55 PM, Sarah Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I think I have a very broken nvda update. I followed the directions. The update downloaded, however I still hear the beeps saying it's updating etc et etc. I tried to close out but no joy. Narrator is not telling me much either. Running nvda latest snap on windows 10 pro..

Take care all.

They mostly use that chip in tablets and some low end laptops.

On Dec 6, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Gene New Zealand
<hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

Hi Joseph



What are these ram thing you are talking about? Is it like the processor
that they used on the RT versions of windows but modified?



Are they the ones found on window phones etc?



Gene nz




On 12/7/2017 7:30 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

Another advisory/directive, this time a notice concerning a new
technology in Windows 10:

If you come across Windows 10 on ARM (always connected PC’s) and wish to
use NVDA on it, you need to install 2017.4 or later. NVDA 2017.4 will
recognize these PC’s as running Windows 10 64-bit, though performance
won’t be as smooth as Windows 10 on x64 processors for now.

Cheers,
Joseph

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related
material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
<http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/> Regardless of where you are in New
Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the
NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations
(or location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
<http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries>
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near
you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/
<https://certification.nvaccess.org/>. The certification page contains the
official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who
have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

I ask a question in this message and make a few comments but the second half of the message discusses what might be a related command, at least in terms of how you would program it.  Perhaps if there is enough interest on the list, the developers will work on it soon. 

 

The review cursor by default if you are using object navigation follows the system cursor.  But what I'm saying is if you only want to read the top level comments, then don't you have to move to every comment and measure the distance?  My question is how that is better than reading a few words of each comment to see if you want to continue.  But maybe you have to read enough of each comment that it is slower enough to matter. 

 

Evidently, the speak position command has more functions than in the old version of NVDA I use.  So you are correct that to hear the numbers, you have to issue the command twice.

Also, the idea of being able to jump to the next occurrence of text starting a certain point from the left of the screen might be related to another feature NVDA should have.  If you have a page with two or three columns or more and you want to only read one column, you should be able to define a start point and an end point farther to the right.  Then you could read and only have that defineed column read.  ASAP had a read column feature in JAWS.  I seldo had to use it but I would imagine it was very useful to some people,  Consider one use with NVDA:

Suppose you got a poorly formatted PDF document where pages didn't decolumnize properly.  Rather than have decolumnization occur, if you could just have the page recognized with no decolumnization and set the columns yourself, you might be able to read such documents. 

 

Genea distance from the left of the screen
----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Malykh

Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:22 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments

I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works, but it works for me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in Google Chrome and Firefox. I don't have to press any extra buttons to route the review cursor, perhaps the review cursor just follows the system cursor in my case.

After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once, and it indeed speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I assume) pixels. After pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal offset in percentage of the screen width. So either way can be used.

I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump between paragraphs with the same offset. I might try to write such a plugin myself when I have some free time.

Tony

On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote:

I haven't tried this but I don't see how using the cursor location feature would help much.  You would still have to move to the beginning of each comment and check the distance.  If that would save you time in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know but having to move to the next comment and check the distance of each comment would seem to be cumbersome and perhaps not much easier than reading a bit of each comment to see if it’s a reply.  but those who try this may explain that I'm wrong and why. 

 

Perhaps what we need, if this can be done, is a feature or a plugin you can set to look for text that starts a certain distance from the left side of the screen and then be able to jump to the next text that starts at the same number of pixels from the left of the screen.  You could issue a next and a back command to move to these items.  So the idea may lead to a good solution if such a feature can be developed.

 

By the way, you don't have to issue the command twice.  It does the same thing if issued once or more times.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Malykh

Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments

I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple solution: press
Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor location) and it will
tell you the distance from the left edge of the screen. The greater the
distance - the deeper the level of the comment.


I think in theory something can be done on the client side to make the
comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write a browser
plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the comment
explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge of
javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it myself.


Tony





On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill Dengler wrote:
> I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires changes on the site’s end.
>
> Bill
>
>> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Many websites have tree-like structure of comments. For
>> example, reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are
>> like this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for
>> example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not the
>> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the top-level
>> comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is there any way
>> to achieve this with NVDA?
>>
>> So, for example, I would like to have a key combination to jump to the
>> next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to the next comment
>> of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or something, that
>> appears next to every comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind
>> what level comment is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this way.
>>
>> Another way that might help me would be to figure out the level of the
>> current comment. At least I'd be able to move down through the
>> comments without reading them and without trying to deduce its level
>> from the contents.
>>
>> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE, so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these browsers.
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated!
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Hello,

I'm a current user of the latest build of JAWS 2018. Using Eloquence as my software synth.

Well the time has come that I can no longer afford to pay the Freedom Scientific SMA JAWS upgrades (Been using JAWS for over 20 years), so I'm turning to NVDA.

My first two questions:

Does NVDA use a keyboard navigation system similar to JAWS? If not, is there a way I can configure it to work this way?

Also can I configure NVDA to use the Eloquence module currently installed on my PC (Thanks to JAWS?) If not, is there a NVDA software synth available that's just as good to use?

Thanks for any help.

On Dec 6, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

Hi Joseph

What are these ram thing you are talking about? Is it like the processor that they used on the RT versions of windows but modified?

Are they the ones found on window phones etc?

Gene nz

On 12/7/2017 7:30 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

 

Another advisory/directive, this time a notice concerning a new technology in Windows 10:

 

If you come across Windows 10 on ARM (always connected PC’s) and wish to use NVDA on it, you need to install 2017.4 or later. NVDA 2017.4 will recognize these PC’s as running Windows 10 64-bit, though performance won’t be as smooth as Windows 10 on x64 processors for now.

 

Cheers,

Joseph

-- 

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam. 

On 07-Dec-2017, at 6:28 AM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,
Let's try this method: can a car run without an engine? I want folks
to find out the answer on their own this time please.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Pranav Lal
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 4:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Can NVDA 2017.4 run on Windows IOT?

Hi all,

Given that NVDA now supports arm 64 windows, can it run on Windows IOT
running on a raspberry pi 3?

Pranav

On 07-Dec-2017, at 6:28 AM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,
Let's try this method: can a car run without an engine? I want folks to find
out the answer on their own this time please.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pranav
Lal
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 4:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Can NVDA 2017.4 run on Windows IOT?

Hi all,

Given that NVDA now supports arm 64 windows, can it run on Windows IOT
running on a raspberry pi 3?

Pranav