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Re: Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app module won't work
You can download the classic version of Skype from: http://go.skype.com/classic.skypeThis link has OS detection, so if you try it from Windows it will redirect you to an exe file, and if you access it from MacOS it will redirect you to a DMG file. Both of the files are versions of 7.x branch. This is a temporary solution until Microsoft fixes usability problems and other issues pressent. Don't forget to, in order to keep in 7.x, disable automatic updates. Regards. Iván Novegil Cancelas Editor ivan.novegil@nvda.es Comunidad hispanohablante de NVDA | Proyecto NVDA.es - www.NVDA.es Usuario do NVDA en galego ***Note que a anterior mensaxe e/ou os seus adxuntos pode conter información privada ou confidencial. O emprego da información desta mensaxe e/ou dos seus adxuntos está reservado ao ámbito privado do destinatario agás autorización do remitente. Se recibiu esta mensaxe por erro comuníqueo por esta mesma vía e destrúa a mensaxe.*** O 14/12/2017 á(s) 10:05, Angela Delicata escribiu:
Hi Joseph,
Thank you so much for useful information: it was me who asked and am happy to have more details on the matter: anyway, if there was the possibility to build an add-on to make it more usable; please do it... It is a suggestion made by someone totally ignorant in the field, so excuse me if I say stupid things.
actually, I find Skype a bit clumsy.
Thanks again.
Stay well
Ciao
Angela from Italy
Il 14/12/2017 05:10, Joseph Lee ha scritto:
Dear NVDA community,
A few weeks ago someone asked me if I could take a look at the latest
incarnation of Skype for Desktop, nowadays known as Skype Preview (version
8.12). Preliminary results and the advisory is as follows:
Skype for Desktop has gone through a total redesign, borrowing UI (user
interface) elements from universal app version of Skype (Windows 10).
Instead of tabs and such, it is now a web interface. The following are
notable features:
* Contacts list is a combo box.
* Call, My Info and other elements are buttons.
* In order to type messages, you need to switch to focus mode from
chat edit box.
Thus, you need to be familiar with web navigation concepts and commands to
use Skype 8 for Desktop. Also, due to UI redesign, existing Skype app module
that ships with NVDA, nor the app module for Skype universal app that ships
with Windows 10 App Essentials add-on won't work.
Technical: developer info for Skype objects will return values for both
IAccessible and IAccessible2, usually seen with Firefox controls. Basically,
it is a web interface packaged as an app. Note that installation of Skype 8
for desktop will fail on Windows 10 because of preference for Skype
universal app.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Joseph
---
Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
http://www.avg.com
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Re: Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app module won't work
Hi Joseph,
Thank you so much for useful information: it was me who asked and am happy to have more details on the matter: anyway, if there was the possibility to build an add-on to make it more usable; please do it... It is a suggestion made by someone totally ignorant in the field, so excuse me if I say stupid things.
actually, I find Skype a bit clumsy.
Thanks again.
Stay well
Ciao
Angela from Italy
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Il 14/12/2017 05:10, Joseph Lee ha scritto: Dear NVDA community,
A few weeks ago someone asked me if I could take a look at the latest
incarnation of Skype for Desktop, nowadays known as Skype Preview (version
8.12). Preliminary results and the advisory is as follows:
Skype for Desktop has gone through a total redesign, borrowing UI (user
interface) elements from universal app version of Skype (Windows 10).
Instead of tabs and such, it is now a web interface. The following are
notable features:
* Contacts list is a combo box.
* Call, My Info and other elements are buttons.
* In order to type messages, you need to switch to focus mode from
chat edit box.
Thus, you need to be familiar with web navigation concepts and commands to
use Skype 8 for Desktop. Also, due to UI redesign, existing Skype app module
that ships with NVDA, nor the app module for Skype universal app that ships
with Windows 10 App Essentials add-on won't work.
Technical: developer info for Skype objects will return values for both
IAccessible and IAccessible2, usually seen with Firefox controls. Basically,
it is a web interface packaged as an app. Note that installation of Skype 8
for desktop will fail on Windows 10 because of preference for Skype
universal app.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Joseph
---
Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
http://www.avg.com
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Again, as I said in my previous message, you are
not disagreeing with me. I never said sites shouldn't be properly
accessible in their controls being accessible.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis
Hi,
Brian,
For
the most part, I can navigate most sites but there have been occasions where
I've had to have sighted help in filling surveys so I do disagree with Gene to a
point. Yes, we should learn our screen readers well but there are occasions
where a site might have buttons but there's no tag to tell you what those
buttons are.
Rosemarie
From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brian
Sent:
Wednesday, December 13, 2017 8:22 PM
To:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda]
Parenthesis
I disagreee with Gene here what about when we only hear
button or check box but there is no text to tell us what the button does or what
we are check box is for and what we are checking or not checking. Surveys
and patitions are good for doing this as well as vidios or we hearclick here
whear is here/ Also don't forget that not every one is an advanced screen
reader user there are always new people who are just learning. Full
accessability means that everything is spoken. A sighted user does not
need as much discriptive text as we who are blind do. Somthing that you
don't need somone else just might need. We all just don't all have the
same needs so you can't judge and make a statment we don't need somthing like
extra text.
Brian Sackrider
On 12/13/2017 1:39 PM, Gene wrote:
But I don't believe
in altering standard text for screen-readers on a site for the general
public. Maybe, on a site intended only or
almost exclusively for blind people. I
haven't given that any thought. But when we read books, if a
chapter title is in all capitals, we either learn how to deal with it if
it causes problems, or we don't. This sort of thing goes far beyond the
requirements of accessibility. Screen-reader users have a responsibility
to know something about the program they are using. If all caps did
cause me a problem, I would look at the line and spell what isn't being
pronounced correctly. You don't build a street so that people who don't
know how to drive can drive on it. You build a street for licensed
drivers. You shouldn't alter text under normal conditions because some
blind people may not know how to use their screen-readers.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December
13, 2017 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda]
Parenthesis
I disagree see my other post. A
lot depends on the synth though.
Brian
bglists@...
Sent
via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting
'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Devin Prater" <r.d.t.prater@...>
To:
<nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent:
Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda]
Parenthesis
All caps are not read any differently than any other
text.
Devin Prater
Assistive Technology instructor in training, JAWS
Sertified.
> On Dec 12, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Kwork <istherelife@...>
wrote:
>
> With my punctuation set to some, it pauses on either
side of the
> parenthesis. A comma does the same thing, so I would have
to guess which
> is a paren and which a comma. Not that big a deal for
me. If I really want
> to know, I'll investigate on my own. I don't
know about other punctuation
> levels as about all I use is some, so
others would be able to answer that
> better.
> ----- Original
Message -----
> From: tonea.ctr.morrow@...
>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Sent:
Tuesday, December 12, 2017 9:12 AM
> Subject: [nvda]
Parenthesis
>
> How does the software treat parenthesis (such as
this) when it does
> speech? How does it convey to the listener that
the comment (possibly
> unimportant) is an aside comment? I need to
know so I can understand how
> my audience will hear it, both literally
and figuratively.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
Tonea
>
>
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Re: sound when a web page is loaded
Since you can't navigate in a web page until it is
loaded and since web pages tart to read automatically after they load, you
already know in two efficient ways whether a page loads. I don't
particularly care if a sound is made available or not but my point is that the
more you pay atten to cues from the direct environment, the better a computer
user you will be. If people rely on such additional cues as sounds,
without knowing such things as I've stated, it makes them less knowledgeable and
they may have problems at times they wouldn't otherwise. If people want to
use sounds, that's fine but they should also know the underlying cues from the
environment as well.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 10:33 PM
Subject: [nvda] sound when a web page is loaded
Sound when a web page is loaded
I do think that it would be a good idea to
have a sound when a page has been loaded. Sighted people can see at a
glance when a page is loaded so why should we have to check the long way.
If you have internet that constantly drops out and comes you want to know if
your page is loading and when it's loaded. The webie brouser has this
feature. It plays a ticking sound when a page is loading and you hear a
ding when the page is loaded. You can turn this off in the options
menu. I don't always use it butit's there if I want to use it. Also
you could have nvda read the progress of pages loading this could be an option
in the preferences menu.
Brian Sackrider
On 12/13/2017 1:51 PM, Gene wrote:
You can't navigate a page until it fully
loads. Sounds may be nice but this is important for blind Internet users
to understand, with or without sounds. And if you move to the address
bar and tab around that area, you will see an item that tells you that a page
is loading if it still is. I have nothing against a sound that tells you
if a page is loading, but these are still things people should know. I
don't trust notifications to always be accurate. People should be able
to check what is going on aside from something like a sound if there is a
way.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web
page
This is exactly why I use Navigational sounds in the old
version of Firefox.
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via
blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian
Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From:
"Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December
12, 2017 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web
page
Well, I think I figured it out.
This site is sometimes
glitchy and loads slowly on my machine.
I tried it again just now. The page
loaded up and I am now able to
find the song lyrics just by navigating by
headings.
I think that before, I was trying to navigate to the lyrics
before
they were actually loaded on to the page.
When my wife was
looking, I guess maybe I didn't try headings at that
time.
Rusty
On 12/12/17, Rusty Perez <rustys.lists@...> wrote:
> Hey
Hermann,
> Thanks!
> the site is
>
frettie.com
>
>
> There will be songs available when you
first go to the page.
> Search for the word "play" and you should find
some songs to check
> out. Press enter on a song name to bring up a page
dedicated to the
> song. Then search for the "lyrics"
link.
>
> Thanks!
> Rusty
>
> On 12/12/17,
Hermann-Josef Kurzen <ymh005@...> wrote:
>> Hey
Rusty,
>>
>> to which site for songwriters are You
subscribed?
>> I am using NVDA as well.
>> I will have a try
on the site.
>>
>>
>> Greetings -
Hermann
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
■■■
>>
>>
>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Dezember
2017 um 18:05 Uhr
>>> Von: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
>>> An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Betreff: [nvda]
how to read a popup window on a web page
>>>
>>> Hey
folks,
>>> I am subscribed to a site for songwriters. Part of the
site allows one
>>> to read the song lyrics to a song that is
playing. The lyrics come up
>>> in an overlay or window of some
sort and I can't figure out how to
>>> read it with
NVDA.
>>> If my wife runs the mouse over the lyrics, NVDA does
read them, but I
>>> can't figure out how to get to this lyrics
window on my own.
>>> Any thoughts or
suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
Rusty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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I didn't say things shouldn't be properly
accessible and that information shouldn't be read properly. I said that,
when text is on a web site, it shouldn't be modified from standard practices, in
terms of how it is presented to sighted people, such as using all capitals where
this is usually done. This has nothing to do with whether information is
presented to the screen-reader in a properly accessible form, such as text being
read that explains buttons or check boxes. They are separate issues.
However, since there are millions of web sites all over the world, blind people
need to know how to find such information if it is not automatically read but is
present. At times, you need to manually look above or below a control to
find and read the text associated with it. You can't function on the
Internet if you do more than just read articles without knowing such
things. Some people know about accessibility and design proper
sites. Most site designers don't. If you do things online like fill
out forms or work with surveys, you must know how to function on sites that
aren't properly designed. There are sites where such information isn't
presented in a form a screen-reader can read, but much of the time, knowing such
things can make a site useable when not knowing them might mean a blind person
can't use it.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis
I disagreee with Gene here what about when we only hear
button or check box but there is no text to tell us what the button does or what
we are check box is for and what we are checking or not checking. Surveys
and patitions are good for doing this as well as vidios or we hearclick here
whear is here/ Also don't forget that not every one is an advanced screen
reader user there are always new people who are just learning. Full
accessability means that everything is spoken. A sighted user does not
need as much discriptive text as we who are blind do. Somthing that you
don't need somone else just might need. We all just don't all have the
same needs so you can't judge and make a statment we don't need somthing like
extra text.
Brian Sackrider
On 12/13/2017 1:39 PM, Gene wrote:
But I don't believe in altering standard text for
screen-readers on a site for the general public. Maybe, on a site
intended only or almost exclusively for blind
people. I haven't given that any thought. But when we read books,
if a chapter title is in all capitals, we either learn how to deal with
it if it causes problems, or we don't. This sort of thing goes far
beyond the requirements of accessibility. Screen-reader users have a
responsibility to know something about the program they are using. If
all caps did cause me a problem, I would look at the line and spell what isn't
being pronounced correctly. You don't build a street so that people who
don't know how to drive can drive on it. You build a street for licensed
drivers. You shouldn't alter text under normal conditions because some
blind people may not know how to use their screen-readers.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis
I disagree see my other post. A lot depends on the synth
though.
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via
blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian
Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From:
"Devin Prater" <r.d.t.prater@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December
12, 2017 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis
All caps are
not read any differently than any other text.
Devin Prater
Assistive
Technology instructor in training, JAWS Sertified.
> On Dec 12,
2017, at 12:29 PM, Kwork <istherelife@...> wrote:
>
>
With my punctuation set to some, it pauses on either side of the
>
parenthesis. A comma does the same thing, so I would have to guess which
> is a paren and which a comma. Not that big a deal for me. If I really
want
> to know, I'll investigate on my own. I don't know about other
punctuation
> levels as about all I use is some, so others would be
able to answer that
> better.
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: tonea.ctr.morrow@...
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Sent: Tuesday, December
12, 2017 9:12 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Parenthesis
>
> How does
the software treat parenthesis (such as this) when it does
> speech?
How does it convey to the listener that the comment (possibly
>
unimportant) is an aside comment? I need to know so I can understand how
> my audience will hear it, both literally and
figuratively.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
Tonea
>
>
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|
Re: sound when a web page is loaded
Hello, the problem with this feature is that, given the dynamic nature of the web, there is no good definition for "fully loaded." In the Appleverse I find that often times the ticking continues in spite of the fact that the page is, for all intents and purposes, loaded and ready to be used. So any solution to this problem would be, at present, a hack. Kind regards, Felix
If you're loading a page in firefox, NVDA will say "busy"after a page is done loading. I just wait for the page to finish loading. Rosemarie Sound when a web page is loaded I do think that it would be a good idea to have a sound when a page has been loaded. Sighted people can see at a glance when a page is loaded so why should we have to check the long way. If you have internet that constantly drops out and comes you want to know if your page is loading and when it's loaded. The webie brouser has this feature. It plays a ticking sound when a page is loading and you hear a ding when the page is loaded. You can turn this off in the options menu. I don't always use it butit's there if I want to use it. Also you could have nvda read the progress of pages loading this could be an option in the preferences menu. Brian Sackrider On 12/13/2017 1:51 PM, Gene wrote: You can't navigate a page until it fully loads. Sounds may be nice but this is important for blind Internet users to understand, with or without sounds. And if you move to the address bar and tab around that area, you will see an item that tells you that a page is loading if it still is. I have nothing against a sound that tells you if a page is loading, but these are still things people should know. I don't trust notifications to always be accurate. People should be able to check what is going on aside from something like a sound if there is a way. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page This is exactly why I use Navigational sounds in the old version of Firefox.
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page
Well, I think I figured it out.
This site is sometimes glitchy and loads slowly on my machine.
I tried it again just now. The page loaded up and I am now able to
find the song lyrics just by navigating by headings.
I think that before, I was trying to navigate to the lyrics before
they were actually loaded on to the page.
When my wife was looking, I guess maybe I didn't try headings at that time.
Rusty
On 12/12/17, Rusty Perez <rustys.lists@...> wrote:
> Hey Hermann,
> Thanks!
> the site is
> frettie.com
>
>
> There will be songs available when you first go to the page.
> Search for the word "play" and you should find some songs to check
> out. Press enter on a song name to bring up a page dedicated to the
> song. Then search for the "lyrics" link.
>
> Thanks!
> Rusty
>
> On 12/12/17, Hermann-Josef Kurzen <ymh005@...> wrote:
>> Hey Rusty,
>>
>> to which site for songwriters are You subscribed?
>> I am using NVDA as well.
>> I will have a try on the site.
>>
>>
>> Greetings - Hermann
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ■■■
>>
>>
>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Dezember 2017 um 18:05 Uhr
>>> Von: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
>>> An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Betreff: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page
>>>
>>> Hey folks,
>>> I am subscribed to a site for songwriters. Part of the site allows one
>>> to read the song lyrics to a song that is playing. The lyrics come up
>>> in an overlay or window of some sort and I can't figure out how to
>>> read it with NVDA.
>>> If my wife runs the mouse over the lyrics, NVDA does read them, but I
>>> can't figure out how to get to this lyrics window on my own.
>>> Any thoughts or suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Rusty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: I can't get NVDA's synthesizer to read Mexican currency as
I have no objection to NVDA not interpreting
abbreviations but how numbers are read should be able to be set, as numbers, as
digits, or as pairs, as you illustrated. I thought these choices were
going to be added.
Gene
----- Original Message
-----
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't get NVDA's synthesizer to read Mexican
currency as
To be honest, the potential for incorrect context is one reason
NVDA itself doesn't try to process the intended meaning of text, but leave
it to the synthesizer if it wants. Eg when should "dr" be Doctor, and when
should it be "drive"? Is "st" Saint, or Street? And when should
"1234" be "One, two, three, four" and when should it be "One thousand, two
hundred and thirty-four"?
--
Quentin
Christensen
Training and Support Manager
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Re: In-Process 13th December 2017
Hi Gene,
I think they are counted separately. From memory, I think Mick mentioned there were about 300 people on snapshot builds a little while ago.
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:45 AM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:
Hi Quentin.
Just a quick curiosity question about downloads of NVDa and or releases.
Is either the next or master snapshots counted in the number of downloads?
The reason i ask this is i have a stable version of nvda on the computer but test snapshots mostly master and i know from the master the stable will come when you do a release.
You noted numbers of downloads in the blog and wondered.
the reason I ask this if they are are they counted on a separate server or section?
The number of downloads for each stable release I know they are counted weather it be from the site or from the check for updatefeature.
but does that include master? or next or not?
Gene nz
On 12/14/2017 12:57 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Dear Gerardo,
Thank you very much for your support and amazing advocacy! All the best for Christmas and the new year!
Quentin.
--
![Image NVDA
certified expert]()
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at
http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers.
To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA
expert exam.
-- Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
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Re: In-Process 13th December 2017
Hi Robert,
I just checked that myself and you are right, it does say 1.49.1 dev. I'll find out for you what's going on there.
Quentin.
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@...> wrote:
Hi, Quentin
Out of curiosity and to compare the version of the eSpeak ng I
install new fresh stable nvda 2017.4 without any addons to my
machine.
After viewing the log file here is the details I've got.
Using eSpeak NG version 1.49.1 dev
INFO -
speechDictHandler.dictFormatUpgrade._doSynthVoiceDictBackupAndMove
(10:20:34.279):
Upgrading voice dictionaries for espeak
INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (10:20:34.436):
Loaded synthDriver espeak
Not sure if this is the same you've mentioned that eSpeak ng is
updated to 1.49.2?
Or, perhaps to correct me about my analysis. Thanks.
Robert Mendoza
On 12/14/2017 8:28 AM, Robert Mendoza
wrote:
Hi, Quentin
qNot sure if I missed out or something mixed up here but, I
downloded the master snapshot into this link.
https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/
If I look into the log file still the eSpeak ng version is
Using eSpeak NG version 1.49.1 dev
I am currently testing the said version below:
NVDA version master-14715,94bc05be
I appreciate if you could further shed some information for this
matter, or perhaps to clarify this in your diligent respond in
later message. Thanks
Robert Mendoza
On 12/14/2017 7:46 AM, Quentin
Christensen wrote:
Hi Robert,
The short answer is yes, Master since I think September
has also used the newer build of eSpeak NG. Looking at the
what's new, it reads:
" Espeak-ng has been
updated to 1.49.2, resolving some issues with producing
release builds. (#7385, #7583)"
Those two numbers at the end
indicate the pull requests to make that update, which are
dated September 11 and November 1.
In one of the comments, Reef
also noted: "Locking the comments on this
PR, since this is expected to be a long running PR. The
goal is to regularly integrate the newest espeak-ng
changes into the next branch. When espeak-ng
reaches the next release, merge to master. This allows espeak-ng to be
tested more regularly by users of next.
If you
encounter a problem with espeak-ng or this PR, please raise
a separate issue."
The number of
comments we've had since releasing 2017.4 and the last
couple of RC builds indicates that Reef was right and we do
ideally need more people checking snapshot builds for these
issues earlier.
If you are
seeing different behaviour from eSpeak from 2017.4 to the
Master builds, do let me know though.
Kind regards
Quentin.
-- Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
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Re: sound when a web page is loaded
If you're loading a page in firefox, NVDA will say "busy"after a page is done loading. I just wait for the page to finish loading. Rosemarie
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brian
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 8:33 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] sound when a web page is loaded Sound when a web page is loaded I do think that it would be a good idea to have a sound when a page has been loaded. Sighted people can see at a glance when a page is loaded so why should we have to check the long way. If you have internet that constantly drops out and comes you want to know if your page is loading and when it's loaded. The webie brouser has this feature. It plays a ticking sound when a page is loading and you hear a ding when the page is loaded. You can turn this off in the options menu. I don't always use it butit's there if I want to use it. Also you could have nvda read the progress of pages loading this could be an option in the preferences menu. Brian Sackrider On 12/13/2017 1:51 PM, Gene wrote: You can't navigate a page until it fully loads. Sounds may be nice but this is important for blind Internet users to understand, with or without sounds. And if you move to the address bar and tab around that area, you will see an item that tells you that a page is loading if it still is. I have nothing against a sound that tells you if a page is loading, but these are still things people should know. I don't trust notifications to always be accurate. People should be able to check what is going on aside from something like a sound if there is a way. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page This is exactly why I use Navigational sounds in the old version of Firefox.
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page
Well, I think I figured it out.
This site is sometimes glitchy and loads slowly on my machine.
I tried it again just now. The page loaded up and I am now able to
find the song lyrics just by navigating by headings.
I think that before, I was trying to navigate to the lyrics before
they were actually loaded on to the page.
When my wife was looking, I guess maybe I didn't try headings at that time.
Rusty
On 12/12/17, Rusty Perez <rustys.lists@...> wrote:
> Hey Hermann,
> Thanks!
> the site is
> frettie.com
>
>
> There will be songs available when you first go to the page.
> Search for the word "play" and you should find some songs to check
> out. Press enter on a song name to bring up a page dedicated to the
> song. Then search for the "lyrics" link.
>
> Thanks!
> Rusty
>
> On 12/12/17, Hermann-Josef Kurzen <ymh005@...> wrote:
>> Hey Rusty,
>>
>> to which site for songwriters are You subscribed?
>> I am using NVDA as well.
>> I will have a try on the site.
>>
>>
>> Greetings - Hermann
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ■■■
>>
>>
>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Dezember 2017 um 18:05 Uhr
>>> Von: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
>>> An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Betreff: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page
>>>
>>> Hey folks,
>>> I am subscribed to a site for songwriters. Part of the site allows one
>>> to read the song lyrics to a song that is playing. The lyrics come up
>>> in an overlay or window of some sort and I can't figure out how to
>>> read it with NVDA.
>>> If my wife runs the mouse over the lyrics, NVDA does read them, but I
>>> can't figure out how to get to this lyrics window on my own.
>>> Any thoughts or suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Rusty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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Hi, Brian, For the most part, I can navigate most sites but there have been occasions where I've had to have sighted help in filling surveys so I do disagree with Gene to a point. Yes, we should learn our screen readers well but there are occasions where a site might have buttons but there's no tag to tell you what those buttons are. Rosemarie
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brian
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 8:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis I disagreee with Gene here what about when we only hear button or check box but there is no text to tell us what the button does or what we are check box is for and what we are checking or not checking. Surveys and patitions are good for doing this as well as vidios or we hearclick here whear is here/ Also don't forget that not every one is an advanced screen reader user there are always new people who are just learning. Full accessability means that everything is spoken. A sighted user does not need as much discriptive text as we who are blind do. Somthing that you don't need somone else just might need. We all just don't all have the same needs so you can't judge and make a statment we don't need somthing like extra text. Brian Sackrider On 12/13/2017 1:39 PM, Gene wrote: But I don't believe in altering standard text for screen-readers on a site for the general public. Maybe, on a site intended only or almost exclusively for blind people. I haven't given that any thought. But when we read books, if a chapter title is in all capitals, we either learn how to deal with it if it causes problems, or we don't. This sort of thing goes far beyond the requirements of accessibility. Screen-reader users have a responsibility to know something about the program they are using. If all caps did cause me a problem, I would look at the line and spell what isn't being pronounced correctly. You don't build a street so that people who don't know how to drive can drive on it. You build a street for licensed drivers. You shouldn't alter text under normal conditions because some blind people may not know how to use their screen-readers. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis I disagree see my other post. A lot depends on the synth though.
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Devin Prater" <r.d.t.prater@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis
All caps are not read any differently than any other text.
Devin Prater
Assistive Technology instructor in training, JAWS Sertified.
> On Dec 12, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Kwork <istherelife@...> wrote:
>
> With my punctuation set to some, it pauses on either side of the
> parenthesis. A comma does the same thing, so I would have to guess which
> is a paren and which a comma. Not that big a deal for me. If I really want
> to know, I'll investigate on my own. I don't know about other punctuation
> levels as about all I use is some, so others would be able to answer that
> better.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tonea.ctr.morrow@...
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 9:12 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Parenthesis
>
> How does the software treat parenthesis (such as this) when it does
> speech? How does it convey to the listener that the comment (possibly
> unimportant) is an aside comment? I need to know so I can understand how
> my audience will hear it, both literally and figuratively.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tonea
>
>
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sound when a web page is loaded
brian <sackriderbrian45@...>
Sound when a web page is loaded I do think that it
would be a good idea to have a sound when a page has been loaded.
Sighted people can see at a glance when a page is loaded so why
should we have to check the long way. If you have internet that
constantly drops out and comes you want to know if your page is
loading and when it's loaded. The webie brouser has this
feature. It plays a ticking sound when a page is loading and you
hear a ding when the page is loaded. You can turn this off in the
options menu. I don't always use it butit's there if I want to
use it. Also you could have nvda read the progress of pages
loading this could be an option in the preferences menu.
Brian Sackrider
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 12/13/2017 1:51 PM, Gene wrote:
You can't navigate a page until
it fully loads. Sounds may be nice but this is important for
blind Internet users to understand, with or without sounds.
And if you move to the address bar and tab around that area,
you will see an item that tells you that a page is loading if
it still is. I have nothing against a sound that tells you if
a page is loading, but these are still things people should
know. I don't trust notifications to always be accurate.
People should be able to check what is going on aside from
something like a sound if there is a way.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on
a web page
This is exactly why I use Navigational sounds in the old version
of Firefox.
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@...,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page
Well, I think I figured it out.
This site is sometimes glitchy and loads slowly on my machine.
I tried it again just now. The page loaded up and I am now able to
find the song lyrics just by navigating by headings.
I think that before, I was trying to navigate to the lyrics before
they were actually loaded on to the page.
When my wife was looking, I guess maybe I didn't try headings at
that time.
Rusty
On 12/12/17, Rusty Perez <rustys.lists@...>
wrote:
> Hey Hermann,
> Thanks!
> the site is
> frettie.com
>
>
> There will be songs available when you first go to the page.
> Search for the word "play" and you should find some songs to
check
> out. Press enter on a song name to bring up a page dedicated
to the
> song. Then search for the "lyrics" link.
>
> Thanks!
> Rusty
>
> On 12/12/17, Hermann-Josef Kurzen <ymh005@...>
wrote:
>> Hey Rusty,
>>
>> to which site for songwriters are You subscribed?
>> I am using NVDA as well.
>> I will have a try on the site.
>>
>>
>> Greetings - Hermann
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ■■■
>>
>>
>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Dezember 2017 um 18:05 Uhr
>>> Von: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
>>> An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Betreff: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web
page
>>>
>>> Hey folks,
>>> I am subscribed to a site for songwriters. Part of
the site allows one
>>> to read the song lyrics to a song that is playing.
The lyrics come up
>>> in an overlay or window of some sort and I can't
figure out how to
>>> read it with NVDA.
>>> If my wife runs the mouse over the lyrics, NVDA does
read them, but I
>>> can't figure out how to get to this lyrics window on
my own.
>>> Any thoughts or suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Rusty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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brian <sackriderbrian45@...>
I disagreee with Gene here what about when we only hear
button or check box but there is no text to tell us what the
button does or what we are check box is for and what we are
checking or not checking. Surveys and patitions are good for
doing this as well as vidios or we hearclick here whear is here/
Also don't forget that not every one is an advanced screen reader
user there are always new people who are just learning. Full
accessability means that everything is spoken. A sighted user
does not need as much discriptive text as we who are blind do.
Somthing that you don't need somone else just might need. We all
just don't all have the same needs so you can't judge and make a
statment we don't need somthing like extra text.
Brian Sackrider
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 12/13/2017 1:39 PM, Gene wrote:
But I don't believe in altering
standard text for screen-readers on a site for the general
public. Maybe, on a site intended only or
almost exclusively for blind people. I haven't given that
any thought. But when we read books, if a chapter title is in
all capitals, we either learn how to deal with it if it causes
problems, or we don't. This sort of thing goes far beyond the
requirements of accessibility. Screen-reader users have a
responsibility to know something about the program they are
using. If all caps did cause me a problem, I would look at
the line and spell what isn't being pronounced correctly. You
don't build a street so that people who don't know how to
drive can drive on it. You build a street for licensed
drivers. You shouldn't alter text under normal conditions
because some blind people may not know how to use their
screen-readers.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis
I disagree see my other post. A lot depends on the synth though.
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@...,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Devin Prater" <r.d.t.prater@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis
All caps are not read any differently than any other text.
Devin Prater
Assistive Technology instructor in training, JAWS Sertified.
> On Dec 12, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Kwork <istherelife@...>
wrote:
>
> With my punctuation set to some, it pauses on either side of
the
> parenthesis. A comma does the same thing, so I would have to
guess which
> is a paren and which a comma. Not that big a deal for me. If
I really want
> to know, I'll investigate on my own. I don't know about other
punctuation
> levels as about all I use is some, so others would be able to
answer that
> better.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tonea.ctr.morrow@...
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 9:12 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Parenthesis
>
> How does the software treat parenthesis (such as this) when
it does
> speech? How does it convey to the listener that the comment
(possibly
> unimportant) is an aside comment? I need to know so I can
understand how
> my audience will hear it, both literally and figuratively.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tonea
>
>
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Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app module won't work
Dear NVDA community, A few weeks ago someone asked me if I could take a look at the latest incarnation of Skype for Desktop, nowadays known as Skype Preview (version 8.12). Preliminary results and the advisory is as follows: Skype for Desktop has gone through a total redesign, borrowing UI (user interface) elements from universal app version of Skype (Windows 10). Instead of tabs and such, it is now a web interface. The following are notable features: - Contacts list is a combo box.
- Call, My Info and other elements are buttons.
- In order to type messages, you need to switch to focus mode from chat edit box.
Thus, you need to be familiar with web navigation concepts and commands to use Skype 8 for Desktop. Also, due to UI redesign, existing Skype app module that ships with NVDA, nor the app module for Skype universal app that ships with Windows 10 App Essentials add-on won’t work. Technical: developer info for Skype objects will return values for both IAccessible and IAccessible2, usually seen with Firefox controls. Basically, it is a web interface packaged as an app. Note that installation of Skype 8 for desktop will fail on Windows 10 because of preference for Skype universal app. Thanks. Cheers, Joseph
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Re: In-Process 13th December 2017
Hi, Quentin
Out of curiosity and to compare the version of the eSpeak ng I
install new fresh stable nvda 2017.4 without any addons to my
machine.
After viewing the log file here is the details I've got.
Using eSpeak NG version 1.49.1 dev
INFO -
speechDictHandler.dictFormatUpgrade._doSynthVoiceDictBackupAndMove
(10:20:34.279):
Upgrading voice dictionaries for espeak
INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (10:20:34.436):
Loaded synthDriver espeak
Not sure if this is the same you've mentioned that eSpeak ng is
updated to 1.49.2?
Or, perhaps to correct me about my analysis. Thanks.
Robert Mendoza
On 12/14/2017 8:28 AM, Robert Mendoza
wrote:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Hi, Quentin
qNot sure if I missed out or something mixed up here but, I
downloded the master snapshot into this link.
https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/
If I look into the log file still the eSpeak ng version is
Using eSpeak NG version 1.49.1 dev
I am currently testing the said version below:
NVDA version master-14715,94bc05be
I appreciate if you could further shed some information for this
matter, or perhaps to clarify this in your diligent respond in
later message. Thanks
Robert Mendoza
On 12/14/2017 7:46 AM, Quentin
Christensen wrote:
Hi Robert,
The short answer is yes, Master since I think September
has also used the newer build of eSpeak NG. Looking at the
what's new, it reads:
" Espeak-ng has been
updated to 1.49.2, resolving some issues with producing
release builds. (#7385, #7583)"
Those two numbers at the end
indicate the pull requests to make that update, which are
dated September 11 and November 1.
In one of the comments, Reef
also noted: "Locking the comments on this
PR, since this is expected to be a long running PR. The
goal is to regularly integrate the newest espeak-ng
changes into the next branch. When espeak-ng
reaches the next release, merge to master. This allows espeak-ng to be
tested more regularly by users of next.
If you
encounter a problem with espeak-ng or this PR, please raise
a separate issue."
The number of
comments we've had since releasing 2017.4 and the last
couple of RC builds indicates that Reef was right and we do
ideally need more people checking snapshot builds for these
issues earlier.
If you are
seeing different behaviour from eSpeak from 2017.4 to the
Master builds, do let me know though.
Kind regards
Quentin.
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Re: In-Process 13th December 2017
Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
Hi Quentin.
Just a quick curiosity question about downloads of NVDa and or releases.
Is either the next or master snapshots counted in the number of downloads?
The reason i ask this is i have a stable version of nvda on the computer but test snapshots mostly master and i know from the master the stable will come when you do a release.
You noted numbers of downloads in the blog and wondered.
the reason I ask this if they are are they counted on a separate server or section?
The number of downloads for each stable release I know they are counted weather it be from the site or from the check for updatefeature.
but does that include master? or next or not?
Gene nz
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 12/14/2017 12:57 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Dear Gerardo,
Thank you very much for your support and amazing advocacy! All the best for Christmas and the new year!
Quentin.
--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at
http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers.
To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA
expert exam.
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Re: In-Process 13th December 2017
Hi, Quentin
Not sure if I missed out or something mixed up here but, I
downloded the master snapshot into this link.
https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/
If I look into the log file still the eSpeak ng version is
Using eSpeak NG version 1.49.1 dev
I am currently testing the said version below:
NVDA version master-14715,94bc05be
I appreciate if you could further shed some information for this
matter, or perhaps to clarify this in your diligent respond in
later message. Thanks
Robert Mendoza
On 12/14/2017 7:46 AM, Quentin
Christensen wrote:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Hi Robert,
The short answer is yes, Master since I think September has
also used the newer build of eSpeak NG. Looking at the what's
new, it reads:
" Espeak-ng has been updated to
1.49.2, resolving some issues with producing release builds.
(#7385, #7583)"
Those two numbers at the end
indicate the pull requests to make that update, which are
dated September 11 and November 1.
In one of the comments, Reef
also noted: "Locking the comments on this
PR, since this is expected to be a long running PR. The goal
is to regularly integrate the newest espeak-ng changes into
the next branch. When espeak-ng reaches
the next release, merge to master. This allows espeak-ng to be
tested more regularly by users of next.
If you
encounter a problem with espeak-ng or this PR, please raise a
separate issue."
The number of
comments we've had since releasing 2017.4 and the last couple
of RC builds indicates that Reef was right and we do ideally
need more people checking snapshot builds for these issues
earlier.
If you are
seeing different behaviour from eSpeak from 2017.4 to the
Master builds, do let me know though.
Kind regards
Quentin.
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No, that do not make any difference...
Rui
Às 22:04 de 13/12/2017, George McCoy
escreveu:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thanks for the help, John. No, they are running different
synthesizers. I'll see if that makes a difference.
George
-----Original Message----- From: John Isige
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] remote 2.0 issue
Are you running the same synth on both computers? I think it'll
try to
deal with it if you're not, but the ideal is to have both copies
of NVDA
set to use the same synth.
On 12/13/2017 15:38, George McCoy wrote:
I am trying to control another computer
using the remote 2.0
add-on. I have control of the other computer but I get no
speech on my end. It acts like it does when the remote computer
is
muted but that is not the case.
My computer is running windows 7 home premium. My friend’s
computer
is running windows 7 ultimate. Both machines are running NVDA
2017.1.
I get the same behavior when I try to control my friend’s
computer
with my HP running windows 10 professional and NvDA 2017.3.
I’ve tried everything I can think of. Does anyone have any
suggestions?
Thanks very much,
George
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Re: I can't get NVDA's synthesizer to read Mexican currency as
To be honest, the potential for incorrect context is one reason NVDA itself doesn't try to process the intended meaning of text, but leave it to the synthesizer if it wants. Eg when should "dr" be Doctor, and when should it be "drive"? Is "st" Saint, or Street? And when should "1234" be "One, two, three, four" and when should it be "One thousand, two hundred and thirty-four"?
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 5:03 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote: Hmm we had the inverse of this in another synth not long ago I believe i4e things that were not Mexican were being read as such.
I hate this sort of abbreviation extension, the probability that it will malfunction somewhere is very good!
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Corripio" <gera1027@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 4:22 PM
Subject: [nvda] I can't get NVDA's synthesizer to read Mexican currency as
Using NVDA's Vocalizer, where or how would I make NVDA to read this Mxn$3800 as 3800 Mexican pesos? I ask this because when typing in for instance USD$230 it reads exactly right as I'd like for the Mexican currency to read. I tried putting into the pronounciation dictionary but it didn't work. any ideas?
--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird
-- Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
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Re: In-Process 13th December 2017
Dear Gerardo,
Thank you very much for your support and amazing advocacy! All the best for Christmas and the new year!
Quentin.
On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Gerardo Corripio <gera1027@...> wrote:
Indeed! Thanks for all you guys do at NVAccess! You're definitely
changing lives thorughout Mexico and Latin America, in having a
viable alternative than the regularly-used Jaws, especially
because of Jaws being so expensive, thus with NVDA you're
reopening doors for so many blind people who otherwise wouldn't
have been able to use computers. Also over at Ciberaprendiendo
(the Blindness tech podcast over at www.eiberoamerica.com) I'm
doing my promoting of NVDA via podcasts episodes dedicated to it,
hoping that even more resistant users of the Shark, might take the
plunge and switch. And lastly, my promoting NVDA has brought me to
create a Whatsapp Spanish group "NVDA Access para Todos" in which
we're already about 40 or 50 participants throughout Latin
America, in which we discuss NVDA experiences, answer questions
etc. So it's all of us's job to in our countries and/or areas,
continue spreading by example, all that NVDA has to offer in our
path towards integration with the sighted computer users. Graet
work! and may 2018 bring inspiration for you guys in implementing
features, and for us in suggestions, and mainly to continue
spreading the benefits of NVDA.
El 12/12/2017 a las 09:09 p.m.,
Rosemarie Chavarria escribió:
Hi,
Quentin,
I'd
like to thank you and everyone at NV Access for everything
you've done to make NVDA the great screen reader that it is
today. I've really enjoyed reading the blogs for this year
and look forward to reading them again in 2018.
Rosemarie
From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On
Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] In-Process 13th December 2017
Hi everyone,
Well it's that time of year, the last
In-Process blog for the year! Here it is:
Thanks for being so supportive and
enthusiastic of the blog this year. It's been fun and
I look forward to bringing it to you again regularly in
2018!
Quentin.
--
Quentin
Christensen
Training and Support Manager
--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird
-- Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
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