Date   

Re: Caption location

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

They are very blinkered if its not approved. Its open source so they can check that its not a virus. Besides, they should have enough security on their system to be able to use software which major organisations use without problems, heaven forbid there are gaping holes in Adobe and Java and they have been around since the stone age.



Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: <tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location


I went through the approved list of software and found JAWS and Window Eyes and Zoom Text. I know I won't get JAWS because it is too expensive. You really, really have to justify that much money.



I did put in a request for NVDA on the chance that my copy of approved software is outdated. If it isn't approved, it doesn't matter if it is free.



We'll see what comes of things.



Tonea



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location



If the texts are to be packaged as PDF it becomes even more important to have a screenreader as tagging the reading order through a document is very very important.

Brian


Re: How does it treat symbols in quotes?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I thought it was going to be just a web page in one window. If you are saying characters the a bit to say without the quotes would be of help I've seen this elsewhere. * and ? are pretty standard wildcards meaning respectively anything of any length up to here or from here onward, and ? is one char at this position is anything.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: <tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 6:49 PM
Subject: [nvda] How does it treat symbols in quotes?


Okay, based on feedback I am designing my help files for HTML format. This does support a frame setup: the top or header frame has navigation buttons and the logo that links back to the main page. Left frame has the table of contents, index, and search. Right frame is the display window.

Here is my question--on the search frame, I have the following sentence:

Enter one or more keywords to search (the wildcards supported are '*' for one or more unknown characters and '?' for a single unknown character):

If you have punctuation turned off, do I need to rewrite that sentence to something like this:

Enter one or more keywords to search (the wildcards supported are '*' asterisk for one or more unknown characters and '?' question mark for a single unknown character):

Also, any comments you want to make about frames is fine too!

Thanks!

Tonea Morrow

Technical Writer
MCSG/SAIC | Desk: 405-954-7152
MMAC: Base Maintenance Building 15
Enterprise Services Center (ESC)
6500 S. MacArthur Blvd, OKC, OK 73169
tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov | www.esc.gov

Availability (appointments outside these)
Mo

7a - 5 p

If I take a lunch, I'll be here later. If I take a kid to a doctor, I'll be here later on Friday.

Tu

7:30 a - 3:30p

We

7:30 a - 3p

Th

7:30 a - 3:30p

Fr

7:30 a - 2p


Re: Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app module won't work

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well why am I not surprised? Ever since I can remember Skype has been changing their interface on apparently any whim of the programmers, and even when they fix issues they usually created more issues.
I do feel that the biggest problem these days is that nobody seems to want to find something that works and stick with it. In this day and age when designing front ends seems to be all that changes, why not let the user have a selection and they can use the one they like?
It cannot be that hard after all, in the case of Sskype most of the guts of the software has to now be pretty much the same.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 4:10 AM
Subject: [nvda] Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app module won't work


Dear NVDA community,



A few weeks ago someone asked me if I could take a look at the latest
incarnation of Skype for Desktop, nowadays known as Skype Preview (version
8.12). Preliminary results and the advisory is as follows:



Skype for Desktop has gone through a total redesign, borrowing UI (user
interface) elements from universal app version of Skype (Windows 10).
Instead of tabs and such, it is now a web interface. The following are
notable features:



* Contacts list is a combo box.
* Call, My Info and other elements are buttons.
* In order to type messages, you need to switch to focus mode from
chat edit box.



Thus, you need to be familiar with web navigation concepts and commands to
use Skype 8 for Desktop. Also, due to UI redesign, existing Skype app module
that ships with NVDA, nor the app module for Skype universal app that ships
with Windows 10 App Essentials add-on won't work.



Technical: developer info for Skype objects will return values for both
IAccessible and IAccessible2, usually seen with Firefox controls. Basically,
it is a web interface packaged as an app. Note that installation of Skype 8
for desktop will fail on Windows 10 because of preference for Skype
universal app.



Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Firefox Accessibility (was Re: Avg was Re: [nvda] malware bites question)

 

Well after the issue with the web controls, the fact they got rid of a lot of old things and no I'm not refuring to the navigational sounds addon, noscript can no longer have its menu and its all buttons those are not accessible.

Multiprocesser slows down the system causes it to crash on youtube and other sites.

Removal of xul support and adding of the poor implimentation of web extentions means I can't access options dialogs.

The fact they wrote that accessibility software like screenreaders could be used as malware while part of that is true the way I read the article is that they think all accessibility software is malware.

Just like when avg became bad norton and other things I no longer trust them.

I miss the extra extentions for associations but thats all.

On 14/12/2017 5:24 a.m., Kevin Huber wrote:
Hi Shaun:

I think I read somewhere that the Mozilla people are working on an
accessibility fix for the next version that comes out, or the
following one. Whether you can take them at their word or not remains
to be seen, but I wouldn't count them out completely yet. Meanwhile,
Google Chrome seems to work well with both NVDA and JAWS. Granted,
there a few things that you have to get used to, but the learning
curve doesn't seem to steep.

Kevin Huber

On 12/13/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
To be honest thats why I like.

1. a pc with a data drive as well as a system drive.

2. backups.

I have had security programs muck me about.

But thats not a problem, all my data is double backed up on spining
drives, the important stuff is on solid state drives and the cloud.

If something screws up, just reformat and don't do it again.

A reformat always fixes it.

I know it will take me about 2 days to install and several days to
reconfigure things.

Sadly I do not have a 2 drive system, the next powerbox I get will have
one even though the weight will be more.

My dad and brother both have this system.

That technically means that if I have a place to store configs of
things, and my data, if it screws up, in theory I can cut the restore
time in half.

It may take you days to resolve the issue.

It may take a week or 2 to fully restore but at least you know where you
go.

I use msse, and malwarebytes if something stupid goes up at me.

I do have ublock and noscript 5x on my side, still sore about what
mozilla did to firefox and web extentions, it appears they don't care
about accessibility anymore.

Its not spread to thunderbird yet and I have waterfox, that at least runs.

And thats all I care about.

I know thats selfish but I have been there and done that.

Avg was good once.

But then norton was darn good bar a few niggles from 1995-2003, after
that it went downhill.

Which was just sad, I still respect old nav, ndd, norton speed, and
windoctor for their ease of use.

Its all gone baa humbug!


Now we must use crap software just to use our systems and not even then
is it always safe to use your programs even with that but at least you
can control it.

If you switch to something better there is no garantee that it will stay
that way.

Now I want to be protected.

Its just I really don't want to worry about program x suddenly being
marked as bad even though it was good for ages.

I don't need to reformat every couple weeks because things get deleted.

I don't want to search for things or check things were working and I
really don't care about babysitting.

In the early days I did that.

For whatever reason when I was 10 years yunger I enjoyed that.

Not so much now.

When msse first came out I realised how much time I was wasting.

I havn't found anything to compair, not that win defender is safe, false
alarms on a lot of blind games and programs not as much as other
software but still means I have to keep watch.

Even so I can still use my computer most of the time.




On 11/12/2017 11:09 p.m., Angela Delicata wrote:
Hi,

I tried avg remover, but it is impossible to use with screen readers.

So, in the end, I suppose i have to wait till some sighted helps me.

thank you anyway and if you ave more suggestions they will be very
welcome.

ciao!



Il 11/12/2017 10:42, Ian Blackburn ha scritto:
If it’s like a vast then you need to use a clear program from the
website completely in accessible

The vast clear program makes the computer boot up into a special Mode
that you must use the mouse to operate that will clear your avast

Sent from my iPhone

On 11 Dec 2017, at 5:40 pm, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Is Avg a 64 bit install? if not then the old version of Revo will do
it or always used to.
I'd have thought that their site would give some kind of help on
removal but it may well involve the sighted. The problem is as they
now seem to belong to the same outfit as Avast they are probably
prohibiting screenreaders from hooking in to their code as well.


Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Delicata"
<angeladelicata@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] malware bites question


Hi,

Please excuse me if the question is not close related to nvda, but
as you are talking about antivirus program, I thought I would try to
ask,

I installed avg antivirus, but as it is not so accessible, I would
like to remove it completely. it is impossible to do so because it
seems it has some problems removing itself.

does any one know how to do? If you can, please help me.

Even after installing Windows 10 avg is still here!
I really have no idea on how to handle it.
Thank you in advance.
Ciao.
Angela from Italy

Il 11/12/2017 02:05, Gary Metzler ha scritto:
Hi Anthony,

The threat is from bible seeker. I hope this helps.

-----Original Message----- From: Antony Stone
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] malware bites question

What problem did it report?

Without knowing what the "threat" is, we can't usefully advise on
what to do
about it.

Antony.

On Sunday 10 December 2017 at 17:39:02, Gary Metzler wrote:

Hi All,

I ran the free trial of malware bites and it found a threat. How do I
delete it? I am using the latest windows and nvda. Thanks for any
help.Regards, Gary kn4ox sendto: gmtravel@comcast.net






---
Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
http://www.avg.com




.


Re: Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app module won't work

Angela Delicata
 

Hi,

Thank you  for the information: I think I will install it because the version I have  is hard for me to cope with.

Angela from Italy

Il 14/12/2017 10:31, iván Novegil ha scritto:
You can download the classic version of Skype from:

http://go.skype.com/classic.skype

This link has OS detection, so if you try it from Windows it will redirect you to an exe file, and if you access it from MacOS it will redirect you to a DMG file. Both of the files are versions of 7.x branch.

This is a temporary solution until Microsoft fixes usability problems and other issues pressent. Don't forget to, in order to keep in 7.x, disable automatic updates.


Regards.

Iván Novegil Cancelas
Editor
ivan.novegil@nvda.es

Comunidad hispanohablante de NVDA | Proyecto NVDA.es
- www.NVDA.es

Usuario do NVDA en galego

***Note que a anterior mensaxe e/ou os seus adxuntos pode conter información privada ou confidencial. O emprego da información desta mensaxe e/ou dos seus adxuntos está reservado ao ámbito privado do destinatario agás autorización do remitente. Se recibiu esta mensaxe por erro comuníqueo por esta mesma vía e destrúa a mensaxe.***

O 14/12/2017 á(s) 10:05, Angela Delicata escribiu:
Hi Joseph,

Thank you so much for useful information: it was me who asked and am happy to have more details on the matter: anyway, if there was the possibility to build an add-on to make it more usable; please do it... It is  a suggestion made by  someone totally ignorant in the field, so  excuse me if I say  stupid things.

actually, I find Skype a bit clumsy.


Thanks again.

Stay well

Ciao

Angela from Italy



Il 14/12/2017 05:10, Joseph Lee ha scritto:
Dear NVDA community,


A few weeks ago someone asked me if I could take a look at the latest
incarnation of Skype for Desktop, nowadays known as Skype Preview (version
8.12). Preliminary results and the advisory is as follows:


Skype for Desktop has gone through a total redesign, borrowing UI (user
interface) elements from universal app version of Skype (Windows 10).
Instead of tabs and such, it is now a web interface. The following are
notable features:


*    Contacts list is a combo box.
*    Call, My Info and other elements are buttons.
*    In order to type messages, you need to switch to focus mode from
chat edit box.


Thus, you need to be familiar with web navigation concepts and commands to
use Skype 8 for Desktop. Also, due to UI redesign, existing Skype app module
that ships with NVDA, nor the app module for Skype universal app that ships
with Windows 10 App Essentials add-on won't work.


Technical: developer info for Skype objects will return values for both
IAccessible and IAccessible2, usually seen with Firefox controls. Basically,
it is a web interface packaged as an app. Note that installation of Skype 8
for desktop will fail on Windows 10 because of preference for Skype
universal app.


Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph



---
Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
http://www.avg.com





Re: sound when a web page is loaded

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well all I can say is that in navigational sounds, with auto read all on, you hear a little peep just before it starts to read the page, so one supposes that the system has detected the page has loaded. Of course if the page is one of those annoying dynamic ones you normally also hear clicking as the other junk changes which is also useful to know. In Firefox 58 beta the sounds add on does not work any more and hence I'd not be able to know what the xxx is going on.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] sound when a web page is loaded


Hello,
the problem with this feature is that, given the dynamic nature of the web,
there is no good definition for "fully loaded." In the Appleverse I find
that often times the ticking continues in spite of the fact that the page
is, for all intents and purposes, loaded and ready to be used. So any
solution to this problem would be, at present, a hack.
Kind regards,
Felix

Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> schrieb am Do., 14. Dez. 2017
um 06:04 Uhr:

If you're loading a page in firefox, NVDA will say "busy"after a page is
done loading. I just wait for the page to finish loading.



Rosemarie







*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *
brian
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 13, 2017 8:33 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* [nvda] sound when a web page is loaded



Sound when a web page is loaded I do think that it would be
a good idea to have a sound when a page has been loaded. Sighted people
can see at a glance when a page is loaded so why should we have to check
the long way. If you have internet that constantly drops out and comes you
want to know if your page is loading and when it's loaded. The webie
brouser has this feature. It plays a ticking sound when a page is loading
and you hear a ding when the page is loaded. You can turn this off in the
options menu. I don't always use it butit's there if I want to use it.
Also you could have nvda read the progress of pages loading this could be
an option in the preferences menu.

Brian Sackrider



On 12/13/2017 1:51 PM, Gene wrote:

You can't navigate a page until it fully loads. Sounds may be nice but
this is important for blind Internet users to understand, with or without
sounds. And if you move to the address bar and tab around that area, you
will see an item that tells you that a page is loading if it still is. I
have nothing against a sound that tells you if a page is loading, but these
are still things people should know. I don't trust notifications to always
be accurate. People should be able to check what is going on aside from
something like a sound if there is a way.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:* Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>

*Sent:* Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:20 PM

*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io

*Subject:* Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page



This is exactly why I use Navigational sounds in the old version of
Firefox.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page


Well, I think I figured it out.
This site is sometimes glitchy and loads slowly on my machine.
I tried it again just now. The page loaded up and I am now able to
find the song lyrics just by navigating by headings.
I think that before, I was trying to navigate to the lyrics before
they were actually loaded on to the page.
When my wife was looking, I guess maybe I didn't try headings at that time.

Rusty



On 12/12/17, Rusty Perez <rustys.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Hermann,
Thanks!
the site is
frettie.com


There will be songs available when you first go to the page.
Search for the word "play" and you should find some songs to check
out. Press enter on a song name to bring up a page dedicated to the
song. Then search for the "lyrics" link.

Thanks!
Rusty

On 12/12/17, Hermann-Josef Kurzen <ymh005@gmx.net> wrote:
Hey Rusty,

to which site for songwriters are You subscribed?
I am using NVDA as well.
I will have a try on the site.


Greetings - Hermann





■■■


Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Dezember 2017 um 18:05 Uhr
Von: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@gmail.com>
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page

Hey folks,
I am subscribed to a site for songwriters. Part of the site allows one
to read the song lyrics to a song that is playing. The lyrics come up
in an overlay or window of some sort and I can't figure out how to
read it with NVDA.
If my wife runs the mouse over the lyrics, NVDA does read them, but I
can't figure out how to get to this lyrics window on my own.
Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks!
Rusty














Re: Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app module won't work

Iván Novegil
 

You can download the classic version of Skype from:

http://go.skype.com/classic.skype

This link has OS detection, so if you try it from Windows it will redirect you to an exe file, and if you access it from MacOS it will redirect you to a DMG file. Both of the files are versions of 7.x branch.

This is a temporary solution until Microsoft fixes usability problems and other issues pressent. Don't forget to, in order to keep in 7.x, disable automatic updates.


Regards.

Iván Novegil Cancelas
Editor
ivan.novegil@nvda.es

Comunidad hispanohablante de NVDA | Proyecto NVDA.es
- www.NVDA.es

Usuario do NVDA en galego

***Note que a anterior mensaxe e/ou os seus adxuntos pode conter información privada ou confidencial. O emprego da información desta mensaxe e/ou dos seus adxuntos está reservado ao ámbito privado do destinatario agás autorización do remitente. Se recibiu esta mensaxe por erro comuníqueo por esta mesma vía e destrúa a mensaxe.***

O 14/12/2017 á(s) 10:05, Angela Delicata escribiu:

Hi Joseph,

Thank you so much for useful information: it was me who asked and am happy to have more details on the matter: anyway, if there was the possibility to build an add-on to make it more usable; please do it... It is  a suggestion made by  someone totally ignorant in the field, so  excuse me if I say  stupid things.

actually, I find Skype a bit clumsy.


Thanks again.

Stay well

Ciao

Angela from Italy



Il 14/12/2017 05:10, Joseph Lee ha scritto:
Dear NVDA community,


A few weeks ago someone asked me if I could take a look at the latest
incarnation of Skype for Desktop, nowadays known as Skype Preview (version
8.12). Preliminary results and the advisory is as follows:


Skype for Desktop has gone through a total redesign, borrowing UI (user
interface) elements from universal app version of Skype (Windows 10).
Instead of tabs and such, it is now a web interface. The following are
notable features:


*    Contacts list is a combo box.
*    Call, My Info and other elements are buttons.
*    In order to type messages, you need to switch to focus mode from
chat edit box.


Thus, you need to be familiar with web navigation concepts and commands to
use Skype 8 for Desktop. Also, due to UI redesign, existing Skype app module
that ships with NVDA, nor the app module for Skype universal app that ships
with Windows 10 App Essentials add-on won't work.


Technical: developer info for Skype objects will return values for both
IAccessible and IAccessible2, usually seen with Firefox controls. Basically,
it is a web interface packaged as an app. Note that installation of Skype 8
for desktop will fail on Windows 10 because of preference for Skype
universal app.


Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph



---
Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
http://www.avg.com


Re: Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app module won't work

Angela Delicata
 

Hi Joseph,

Thank you so much for useful information: it was me who asked and am happy to have more details on the matter: anyway, if there was the possibility to build an add-on to make it more usable; please do it... It is  a suggestion made by  someone totally ignorant in the field, so  excuse me if I say  stupid things.

actually, I find Skype a bit clumsy.


Thanks again.

Stay well

Ciao

Angela from Italy

Il 14/12/2017 05:10, Joseph Lee ha scritto:
Dear NVDA community,


A few weeks ago someone asked me if I could take a look at the latest
incarnation of Skype for Desktop, nowadays known as Skype Preview (version
8.12). Preliminary results and the advisory is as follows:


Skype for Desktop has gone through a total redesign, borrowing UI (user
interface) elements from universal app version of Skype (Windows 10).
Instead of tabs and such, it is now a web interface. The following are
notable features:


* Contacts list is a combo box.
* Call, My Info and other elements are buttons.
* In order to type messages, you need to switch to focus mode from
chat edit box.


Thus, you need to be familiar with web navigation concepts and commands to
use Skype 8 for Desktop. Also, due to UI redesign, existing Skype app module
that ships with NVDA, nor the app module for Skype universal app that ships
with Windows 10 App Essentials add-on won't work.


Technical: developer info for Skype objects will return values for both
IAccessible and IAccessible2, usually seen with Firefox controls. Basically,
it is a web interface packaged as an app. Note that installation of Skype 8
for desktop will fail on Windows 10 because of preference for Skype
universal app.


Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph



---
Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
http://www.avg.com


Re: Parenthesis

Gene
 

Again, as I said in my previous message, you are not disagreeing with me.  I never said sites shouldn't be properly accessible in their controls being accessible.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis

Hi, Brian,

 

For the most part, I can navigate most sites but there have been occasions where I've had to have sighted help in filling surveys so I do disagree with Gene to a point. Yes, we should learn our screen readers well but there are occasions where a site might have buttons but there's no tag to tell you what those buttons are.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brian
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 8:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis

 

    I disagreee with Gene here what about when we only hear button or check box but there is no text to tell us what the button does or what we are check box is for and what we are checking or not checking.  Surveys and patitions are good for doing this as well as vidios or we hearclick here whear is here/  Also don't forget that not every one is an advanced screen reader user there are always new people who are just learning.  Full accessability means that everything is spoken.  A sighted user does not need as much discriptive text as we who are blind do.  Somthing that you don't need somone else just might need.  We all just don't all have the same needs so you can't judge and make a statment we don't need somthing like extra text.

Brian Sackrider

 

On 12/13/2017 1:39 PM, Gene wrote:

But I don't believe in altering standard text for screen-readers on a site for the general public.  Maybe, on a site intended only or almost     exclusively for blind people.  I haven't given that any thought.  But when we read books, if a chapter title is in all capitals, we either learn how to deal with it if it causes problems, or we don't.  This sort of thing goes far beyond the requirements of accessibility.  Screen-reader users have a responsibility to know something about the program they are using.  If all caps did cause me a problem, I would look at the line and spell what isn't being pronounced correctly.  You don't build a street so that people who don't know how to drive can drive on it.  You build a street for licensed drivers.  You shouldn't alter text under normal conditions because some blind people may not know how to use their screen-readers. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:19 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis

 

I disagree see my other post. A lot depends on the synth though.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Devin Prater" <r.d.t.prater@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis


All caps are not read any differently than any other text.

Devin Prater
Assistive Technology instructor in training, JAWS Sertified.

> On Dec 12, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Kwork <istherelife@...> wrote:
>
> With my punctuation set to some, it pauses on either side of the
> parenthesis. A comma does the same thing, so I would have to guess which
> is a paren and which a comma. Not that big a deal for me. If I really want
> to know, I'll investigate on my own. I don't know about other punctuation
> levels as about all I use is some, so others would be able to answer that
> better.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tonea.ctr.morrow@...
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 9:12 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Parenthesis
>
> How does the software treat parenthesis (such as this) when it does
> speech? How does it convey to the listener that the comment (possibly
> unimportant) is an aside comment? I need to know so I can understand how
> my audience will hear it, both literally and figuratively.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tonea
>
>


 


Re: sound when a web page is loaded

Gene
 

Since you can't navigate in a web page until it is loaded and since web pages tart to read automatically after they load, you already know in two efficient ways whether a page loads.  I don't particularly care if a sound is made available or not but my point is that the more you pay atten to cues from the direct environment, the better a computer user you will be.  If people rely on such additional cues as sounds, without knowing such things as I've stated, it makes them less knowledgeable and they may have problems at times they wouldn't otherwise.  If people want to use sounds, that's fine but they should also know the underlying cues from the environment as well.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: brian
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 10:33 PM
Subject: [nvda] sound when a web page is loaded

    Sound when a web page is loaded            I do think that it would be a good idea to have a sound when a page has been loaded.  Sighted people can see at a glance when a page is loaded so why should we have to check the long way.  If you have internet that constantly drops out and comes you want to know if your page is loading and when it's loaded.  The webie brouser has this feature.  It plays a ticking sound when a page is loading and you hear a ding when the page is loaded.  You can turn this off in the options menu.  I don't always use it butit's there if I want to use it.  Also you could have nvda read the progress of pages loading this could be an option in the preferences menu.

Brian Sackrider


On 12/13/2017 1:51 PM, Gene wrote:
You can't navigate a page until it fully loads.  Sounds may be nice but this is important for blind Internet users to understand, with or without sounds.  And if you move to the address bar and tab around that area, you will see an item that tells you that a page is loading if it still is.  I have nothing against a sound that tells you if a page is loading, but these are still things people should know.  I don't trust notifications to always be accurate.  People should be able to check what is going on aside from something like a sound if there is a way.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page

This is exactly why I use Navigational sounds in the old version of Firefox.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page


Well, I think I figured it out.
This site is sometimes glitchy and loads slowly on my machine.
I tried it again just now. The page loaded up and I am now able to
find the song lyrics just by navigating by headings.
I think that before, I was trying to navigate to the lyrics before
they were actually loaded on to the page.
When my wife was looking, I guess maybe I didn't try headings at that time.

Rusty



On 12/12/17, Rusty Perez <rustys.lists@...> wrote:
> Hey Hermann,
> Thanks!
> the site is
> frettie.com
>
>
> There will be songs available when you first go to the page.
> Search for the word "play" and you should find some songs to check
> out. Press enter on a song name to bring up a page dedicated to the
> song. Then search for the "lyrics" link.
>
> Thanks!
> Rusty
>
> On 12/12/17, Hermann-Josef Kurzen <ymh005@...> wrote:
>> Hey Rusty,
>>
>> to which site for songwriters are You subscribed?
>> I am using NVDA as well.
>> I will have a try on the site.
>>
>>
>> Greetings - Hermann
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ■■■
>>
>>
>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Dezember 2017 um 18:05 Uhr
>>> Von: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
>>> An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Betreff: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page
>>>
>>> Hey folks,
>>> I am subscribed to a site for songwriters. Part of the site allows one
>>> to read the song lyrics to a song that is playing. The lyrics come up
>>> in an overlay or window of some sort and I can't figure out how to
>>> read it with NVDA.
>>> If my wife runs the mouse over the lyrics, NVDA does read them, but I
>>> can't figure out how to get to this lyrics window on my own.
>>> Any thoughts or suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Rusty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>







Re: Parenthesis

Gene
 

I didn't say things shouldn't be properly accessible and that information shouldn't be read properly.  I said that, when text is on a web site, it shouldn't be modified from standard practices, in terms of how it is presented to sighted people, such as using all capitals where this is usually done.  This has nothing to do with whether information is presented to the screen-reader in a properly accessible form, such as text being read that explains buttons or check boxes.  They are separate issues.  However, since there are millions of web sites all over the world, blind people need to know how to find such information if it is not automatically read but is present.  At times, you need to manually look above or below a control to find and read the text associated with it.  You can't function on the Internet if you do more than just read articles without knowing such things.  Some people know about accessibility and design proper sites.  Most site designers don't.  If you do things online like fill out forms or work with surveys, you must know how to function on sites that aren't properly designed.  There are sites where such information isn't presented in a form a screen-reader can read, but much of the time, knowing such things can make a site useable when not knowing them might mean a blind person can't use it. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: brian
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis

    I disagreee with Gene here what about when we only hear button or check box but there is no text to tell us what the button does or what we are check box is for and what we are checking or not checking.  Surveys and patitions are good for doing this as well as vidios or we hearclick here whear is here/  Also don't forget that not every one is an advanced screen reader user there are always new people who are just learning.  Full accessability means that everything is spoken.  A sighted user does not need as much discriptive text as we who are blind do.  Somthing that you don't need somone else just might need.  We all just don't all have the same needs so you can't judge and make a statment we don't need somthing like extra text.

Brian Sackrider


On 12/13/2017 1:39 PM, Gene wrote:
But I don't believe in altering standard text for screen-readers on a site for the general public.  Maybe, on a site intended only or almost     exclusively for blind people.  I haven't given that any thought.  But when we read books, if a chapter title is in all capitals, we either learn how to deal with it if it causes problems, or we don't.  This sort of thing goes far beyond the requirements of accessibility.  Screen-reader users have a responsibility to know something about the program they are using.  If all caps did cause me a problem, I would look at the line and spell what isn't being pronounced correctly.  You don't build a street so that people who don't know how to drive can drive on it.  You build a street for licensed drivers.  You shouldn't alter text under normal conditions because some blind people may not know how to use their screen-readers. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis

I disagree see my other post. A lot depends on the synth though.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Devin Prater" <r.d.t.prater@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis


All caps are not read any differently than any other text.

Devin Prater
Assistive Technology instructor in training, JAWS Sertified.

> On Dec 12, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Kwork <istherelife@...> wrote:
>
> With my punctuation set to some, it pauses on either side of the
> parenthesis. A comma does the same thing, so I would have to guess which
> is a paren and which a comma. Not that big a deal for me. If I really want
> to know, I'll investigate on my own. I don't know about other punctuation
> levels as about all I use is some, so others would be able to answer that
> better.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tonea.ctr.morrow@...
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 9:12 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Parenthesis
>
> How does the software treat parenthesis (such as this) when it does
> speech? How does it convey to the listener that the comment (possibly
> unimportant) is an aside comment? I need to know so I can understand how
> my audience will hear it, both literally and figuratively.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tonea
>
>





Re: sound when a web page is loaded

Felix G.
 

Hello,
the problem with this feature is that, given the dynamic nature of the web, there is no good definition for "fully loaded." In the Appleverse I find that often times the ticking continues in spite of the fact that the page is, for all intents and purposes, loaded and ready to be used. So any solution to this problem would be, at present, a hack.
Kind regards,
Felix

Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> schrieb am Do., 14. Dez. 2017 um 06:04 Uhr:

If you're loading a page in firefox, NVDA will say "busy"after a page is done loading. I just wait for the page to finish loading.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brian
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 8:33 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] sound when a web page is loaded

 

    Sound when a web page is loaded            I do think that it would be a good idea to have a sound when a page has been loaded.  Sighted people can see at a glance when a page is loaded so why should we have to check the long way.  If you have internet that constantly drops out and comes you want to know if your page is loading and when it's loaded.  The webie brouser has this feature.  It plays a ticking sound when a page is loading and you hear a ding when the page is loaded.  You can turn this off in the options menu.  I don't always use it butit's there if I want to use it.  Also you could have nvda read the progress of pages loading this could be an option in the preferences menu.

Brian Sackrider

 

On 12/13/2017 1:51 PM, Gene wrote:

You can't navigate a page until it fully loads.  Sounds may be nice but this is important for blind Internet users to understand, with or without sounds.  And if you move to the address bar and tab around that area, you will see an item that tells you that a page is loading if it still is.  I have nothing against a sound that tells you if a page is loading, but these are still things people should know.  I don't trust notifications to always be accurate.  People should be able to check what is going on aside from something like a sound if there is a way.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page

 

This is exactly why I use Navigational sounds in the old version of Firefox.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page


Well, I think I figured it out.
This site is sometimes glitchy and loads slowly on my machine.
I tried it again just now. The page loaded up and I am now able to
find the song lyrics just by navigating by headings.
I think that before, I was trying to navigate to the lyrics before
they were actually loaded on to the page.
When my wife was looking, I guess maybe I didn't try headings at that time.

Rusty



On 12/12/17, Rusty Perez <rustys.lists@...> wrote:
> Hey Hermann,
> Thanks!
> the site is
> frettie.com
>
>
> There will be songs available when you first go to the page.
> Search for the word "play" and you should find some songs to check
> out. Press enter on a song name to bring up a page dedicated to the
> song. Then search for the "lyrics" link.
>
> Thanks!
> Rusty
>
> On 12/12/17, Hermann-Josef Kurzen <ymh005@...> wrote:
>> Hey Rusty,
>>
>> to which site for songwriters are You subscribed?
>> I am using NVDA as well.
>> I will have a try on the site.
>>
>>
>> Greetings - Hermann
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ■■■
>>
>>
>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Dezember 2017 um 18:05 Uhr
>>> Von: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
>>> An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Betreff: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page
>>>
>>> Hey folks,
>>> I am subscribed to a site for songwriters. Part of the site allows one
>>> to read the song lyrics to a song that is playing. The lyrics come up
>>> in an overlay or window of some sort and I can't figure out how to
>>> read it with NVDA.
>>> If my wife runs the mouse over the lyrics, NVDA does read them, but I
>>> can't figure out how to get to this lyrics window on my own.
>>> Any thoughts or suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Rusty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




 


Re: I can't get NVDA's synthesizer to read Mexican currency as

Gene
 

I have no objection to NVDA not interpreting abbreviations but how numbers are read should be able to be set, as numbers, as digits, or as pairs, as you illustrated.  I thought these choices were going to be added.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I can't get NVDA's synthesizer to read Mexican currency as

To be honest, the potential for incorrect context is one reason NVDA itself doesn't try to process the intended meaning of text, but leave it to the synthesizer if it wants.  Eg when should "dr" be Doctor, and when should it be "drive"?  Is "st" Saint, or Street?  And when should "1234" be "One, two, three, four" and when should it be "One thousand, two hundred and thirty-four"?

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 5:03 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
Hmm we had the inverse of this in another synth not long ago I believe i4e things that were not Mexican were being read as  such.
I hate this sort of abbreviation extension, the  probability that it will malfunction somewhere is very good!
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Corripio" <gera1027@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 4:22 PM
Subject: [nvda] I can't get NVDA's synthesizer to read Mexican currency as


Using NVDA's Vocalizer, where or how would I make NVDA to read this Mxn$3800 as 3800 Mexican pesos? I ask this because when typing in for instance USD$230 it reads exactly right as I'd like for the Mexican currency to read. I tried putting into the pronounciation dictionary but it didn't work. any ideas?

--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: In-Process 13th December 2017

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Gene,

I think they are counted separately.  From memory, I think Mick mentioned there were about 300 people on snapshot builds a little while ago.

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:45 AM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

Hi Quentin.


Just a quick curiosity question about downloads of NVDa and or releases.


Is either the next or master snapshots counted in the number of downloads?

The reason i ask this is i have a stable version of nvda on the computer but test snapshots mostly master and i know from the master the stable will come when you do a release.

You noted numbers of downloads in the blog and wondered.


the reason I ask this if they are are they counted on a separate server or section?


The number of downloads for each stable release I know they are counted weather it be from the site or from the check for updatefeature.


but does that include master? or next or not?


Gene nz







On 12/14/2017 12:57 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Dear Gerardo,

Thank you very much for your support and amazing advocacy!  All the best for Christmas and the new year!

Quentin.

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Gerardo Corripio <gera1027@...> wrote:

Indeed! Thanks for all you guys do at NVAccess! You're definitely changing lives thorughout Mexico and Latin America, in having a viable alternative than the regularly-used Jaws, especially because of Jaws being so expensive, thus with NVDA you're reopening doors for so many blind people who otherwise wouldn't have been able to use computers. Also over at Ciberaprendiendo (the Blindness tech podcast over at www.eiberoamerica.com) I'm doing my promoting of NVDA via podcasts episodes dedicated to it, hoping that even more resistant users of the Shark, might take the plunge and switch. And lastly, my promoting NVDA has brought me to create a Whatsapp Spanish group "NVDA Access para Todos" in which we're already about 40 or 50 participants throughout Latin America, in which we discuss NVDA experiences, answer questions etc. So it's all of us's job to in our countries and/or areas, continue spreading by example, all that NVDA has to offer in our path towards integration with the sighted computer users. Graet work! and may 2018 bring inspiration for you guys in implementing features, and for us in suggestions, and mainly to continue spreading the benefits of NVDA.


El 12/12/2017 a las 09:09 p.m., Rosemarie Chavarria escribió:

Hi, Quentin,

 

I'd like to thank you and everyone at NV Access for everything you've done to make NVDA the great screen reader that it is today. I've really enjoyed reading the blogs for this year and look forward to reading them again in 2018.

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] In-Process 13th December 2017

 

Hi everyone,

 

Well it's that time of year, the last In-Process blog for the year!  Here it is:

 

 

Thanks for being so supportive and enthusiastic of the blog this year.  It's been fun and I look forward to bringing it to you again regularly in 2018!

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


-- 
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


--
Image NVDA
        certified expert
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: In-Process 13th December 2017

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Robert,

I just checked that myself and you are right, it does say 1.49.1 dev. I'll find out for you what's going on there.

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@...> wrote:

Hi, Quentin


Out of curiosity and to compare the version of the eSpeak ng I install new fresh stable nvda 2017.4 without any addons to my machine.

After viewing the log file here is the details I've got.

Using eSpeak NG version 1.49.1 dev
INFO - speechDictHandler.dictFormatUpgrade._doSynthVoiceDictBackupAndMove (10:20:34.279):
Upgrading voice dictionaries for espeak
INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (10:20:34.436):
Loaded synthDriver espeak

Not sure if this is the same you've mentioned that eSpeak ng is updated to 1.49.2?

Or, perhaps to correct me about my analysis. Thanks.


Robert Mendoza
On 12/14/2017 8:28 AM, Robert Mendoza wrote:

Hi, Quentin

qNot sure if I missed out or something mixed up here but, I downloded the master snapshot into this link.
https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/
If I look into the log file still the eSpeak ng version is
Using eSpeak NG version 1.49.1 dev
I am currently testing the said version below:
NVDA version master-14715,94bc05be
I appreciate if you could further shed some information for this matter, or perhaps to clarify this in your diligent respond in later message. Thanks

Robert Mendoza
On 12/14/2017 7:46 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Robert,

The short answer is yes, Master since I think September has also used the newer build of eSpeak NG.  Looking at the what's new, it reads:

"Espeak-ng has been updated to 1.49.2, resolving some issues with producing release builds. (#7385#7583)"

Those two numbers at the end indicate the pull requests to make that update, which are dated September 11 and November 1.

In one of the comments, Reef also noted: "Locking the comments on this PR, since this is expected to be a long running PR. The goal is to regularly integrate the newest espeak-ng changes into the next branch. When espeak-ng reaches the next release, merge to master. This allows espeak-ng to be tested more regularly by users of next.

If you encounter a problem with espeak-ng or this PR, please raise a separate issue."


The number of comments we've had since releasing 2017.4 and the last couple of RC builds indicates that Reef was right and we do ideally need more people checking snapshot builds for these issues earlier.


If you are seeing different behaviour from eSpeak from 2017.4 to the Master builds, do let me know though.


Kind regards


Quentin.



On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 3:21 PM, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@...> wrote:

Hi, Quentin

Thanks for the update. But, one thing I noticed from the blogsite it was mentioned that eSpeak ng is update to 1.49.2. My question is that this also been for the master snapshot as well or this is specifically for the stable version 2017.4?

Robert Mendoza
On 12/13/2017 10:57 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi everyone,

Well it's that time of year, the last In-Process blog for the year!  Here it is:


Thanks for being so supportive and enthusiastic of the blog this year.  It's been fun and I look forward to bringing it to you again regularly in 2018!

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: sound when a web page is loaded

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

If you're loading a page in firefox, NVDA will say "busy"after a page is done loading. I just wait for the page to finish loading.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brian
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 8:33 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] sound when a web page is loaded

 

    Sound when a web page is loaded            I do think that it would be a good idea to have a sound when a page has been loaded.  Sighted people can see at a glance when a page is loaded so why should we have to check the long way.  If you have internet that constantly drops out and comes you want to know if your page is loading and when it's loaded.  The webie brouser has this feature.  It plays a ticking sound when a page is loading and you hear a ding when the page is loaded.  You can turn this off in the options menu.  I don't always use it butit's there if I want to use it.  Also you could have nvda read the progress of pages loading this could be an option in the preferences menu.

Brian Sackrider

 

On 12/13/2017 1:51 PM, Gene wrote:

You can't navigate a page until it fully loads.  Sounds may be nice but this is important for blind Internet users to understand, with or without sounds.  And if you move to the address bar and tab around that area, you will see an item that tells you that a page is loading if it still is.  I have nothing against a sound that tells you if a page is loading, but these are still things people should know.  I don't trust notifications to always be accurate.  People should be able to check what is going on aside from something like a sound if there is a way.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page

 

This is exactly why I use Navigational sounds in the old version of Firefox.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page


Well, I think I figured it out.
This site is sometimes glitchy and loads slowly on my machine.
I tried it again just now. The page loaded up and I am now able to
find the song lyrics just by navigating by headings.
I think that before, I was trying to navigate to the lyrics before
they were actually loaded on to the page.
When my wife was looking, I guess maybe I didn't try headings at that time.

Rusty



On 12/12/17, Rusty Perez <rustys.lists@...> wrote:
> Hey Hermann,
> Thanks!
> the site is
> frettie.com
>
>
> There will be songs available when you first go to the page.
> Search for the word "play" and you should find some songs to check
> out. Press enter on a song name to bring up a page dedicated to the
> song. Then search for the "lyrics" link.
>
> Thanks!
> Rusty
>
> On 12/12/17, Hermann-Josef Kurzen <ymh005@...> wrote:
>> Hey Rusty,
>>
>> to which site for songwriters are You subscribed?
>> I am using NVDA as well.
>> I will have a try on the site.
>>
>>
>> Greetings - Hermann
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ■■■
>>
>>
>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Dezember 2017 um 18:05 Uhr
>>> Von: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
>>> An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Betreff: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page
>>>
>>> Hey folks,
>>> I am subscribed to a site for songwriters. Part of the site allows one
>>> to read the song lyrics to a song that is playing. The lyrics come up
>>> in an overlay or window of some sort and I can't figure out how to
>>> read it with NVDA.
>>> If my wife runs the mouse over the lyrics, NVDA does read them, but I
>>> can't figure out how to get to this lyrics window on my own.
>>> Any thoughts or suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Rusty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




 


Re: Parenthesis

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Brian,

 

For the most part, I can navigate most sites but there have been occasions where I've had to have sighted help in filling surveys so I do disagree with Gene to a point. Yes, we should learn our screen readers well but there are occasions where a site might have buttons but there's no tag to tell you what those buttons are.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brian
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 8:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis

 

    I disagreee with Gene here what about when we only hear button or check box but there is no text to tell us what the button does or what we are check box is for and what we are checking or not checking.  Surveys and patitions are good for doing this as well as vidios or we hearclick here whear is here/  Also don't forget that not every one is an advanced screen reader user there are always new people who are just learning.  Full accessability means that everything is spoken.  A sighted user does not need as much discriptive text as we who are blind do.  Somthing that you don't need somone else just might need.  We all just don't all have the same needs so you can't judge and make a statment we don't need somthing like extra text.

Brian Sackrider

 

On 12/13/2017 1:39 PM, Gene wrote:

But I don't believe in altering standard text for screen-readers on a site for the general public.  Maybe, on a site intended only or almost     exclusively for blind people.  I haven't given that any thought.  But when we read books, if a chapter title is in all capitals, we either learn how to deal with it if it causes problems, or we don't.  This sort of thing goes far beyond the requirements of accessibility.  Screen-reader users have a responsibility to know something about the program they are using.  If all caps did cause me a problem, I would look at the line and spell what isn't being pronounced correctly.  You don't build a street so that people who don't know how to drive can drive on it.  You build a street for licensed drivers.  You shouldn't alter text under normal conditions because some blind people may not know how to use their screen-readers. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:19 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis

 

I disagree see my other post. A lot depends on the synth though.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Devin Prater" <r.d.t.prater@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis


All caps are not read any differently than any other text.

Devin Prater
Assistive Technology instructor in training, JAWS Sertified.

> On Dec 12, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Kwork <istherelife@...> wrote:
>
> With my punctuation set to some, it pauses on either side of the
> parenthesis. A comma does the same thing, so I would have to guess which
> is a paren and which a comma. Not that big a deal for me. If I really want
> to know, I'll investigate on my own. I don't know about other punctuation
> levels as about all I use is some, so others would be able to answer that
> better.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tonea.ctr.morrow@...
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 9:12 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Parenthesis
>
> How does the software treat parenthesis (such as this) when it does
> speech? How does it convey to the listener that the comment (possibly
> unimportant) is an aside comment? I need to know so I can understand how
> my audience will hear it, both literally and figuratively.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tonea
>
>


 


sound when a web page is loaded

brian <sackriderbrian45@...>
 

    Sound when a web page is loaded            I do think that it would be a good idea to have a sound when a page has been loaded.  Sighted people can see at a glance when a page is loaded so why should we have to check the long way.  If you have internet that constantly drops out and comes you want to know if your page is loading and when it's loaded.  The webie brouser has this feature.  It plays a ticking sound when a page is loading and you hear a ding when the page is loaded.  You can turn this off in the options menu.  I don't always use it butit's there if I want to use it.  Also you could have nvda read the progress of pages loading this could be an option in the preferences menu.

Brian Sackrider


On 12/13/2017 1:51 PM, Gene wrote:
You can't navigate a page until it fully loads.  Sounds may be nice but this is important for blind Internet users to understand, with or without sounds.  And if you move to the address bar and tab around that area, you will see an item that tells you that a page is loading if it still is.  I have nothing against a sound that tells you if a page is loading, but these are still things people should know.  I don't trust notifications to always be accurate.  People should be able to check what is going on aside from something like a sound if there is a way.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page

This is exactly why I use Navigational sounds in the old version of Firefox.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page


Well, I think I figured it out.
This site is sometimes glitchy and loads slowly on my machine.
I tried it again just now. The page loaded up and I am now able to
find the song lyrics just by navigating by headings.
I think that before, I was trying to navigate to the lyrics before
they were actually loaded on to the page.
When my wife was looking, I guess maybe I didn't try headings at that time.

Rusty



On 12/12/17, Rusty Perez <rustys.lists@...> wrote:
> Hey Hermann,
> Thanks!
> the site is
> frettie.com
>
>
> There will be songs available when you first go to the page.
> Search for the word "play" and you should find some songs to check
> out. Press enter on a song name to bring up a page dedicated to the
> song. Then search for the "lyrics" link.
>
> Thanks!
> Rusty
>
> On 12/12/17, Hermann-Josef Kurzen <ymh005@...> wrote:
>> Hey Rusty,
>>
>> to which site for songwriters are You subscribed?
>> I am using NVDA as well.
>> I will have a try on the site.
>>
>>
>> Greetings - Hermann
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ■■■
>>
>>
>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Dezember 2017 um 18:05 Uhr
>>> Von: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...>
>>> An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Betreff: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page
>>>
>>> Hey folks,
>>> I am subscribed to a site for songwriters. Part of the site allows one
>>> to read the song lyrics to a song that is playing. The lyrics come up
>>> in an overlay or window of some sort and I can't figure out how to
>>> read it with NVDA.
>>> If my wife runs the mouse over the lyrics, NVDA does read them, but I
>>> can't figure out how to get to this lyrics window on my own.
>>> Any thoughts or suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Rusty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>







Re: Parenthesis

brian <sackriderbrian45@...>
 

    I disagreee with Gene here what about when we only hear button or check box but there is no text to tell us what the button does or what we are check box is for and what we are checking or not checking.  Surveys and patitions are good for doing this as well as vidios or we hearclick here whear is here/  Also don't forget that not every one is an advanced screen reader user there are always new people who are just learning.  Full accessability means that everything is spoken.  A sighted user does not need as much discriptive text as we who are blind do.  Somthing that you don't need somone else just might need.  We all just don't all have the same needs so you can't judge and make a statment we don't need somthing like extra text.

Brian Sackrider


On 12/13/2017 1:39 PM, Gene wrote:
But I don't believe in altering standard text for screen-readers on a site for the general public.  Maybe, on a site intended only or almost     exclusively for blind people.  I haven't given that any thought.  But when we read books, if a chapter title is in all capitals, we either learn how to deal with it if it causes problems, or we don't.  This sort of thing goes far beyond the requirements of accessibility.  Screen-reader users have a responsibility to know something about the program they are using.  If all caps did cause me a problem, I would look at the line and spell what isn't being pronounced correctly.  You don't build a street so that people who don't know how to drive can drive on it.  You build a street for licensed drivers.  You shouldn't alter text under normal conditions because some blind people may not know how to use their screen-readers. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis

I disagree see my other post. A lot depends on the synth though.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Devin Prater" <r.d.t.prater@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Parenthesis


All caps are not read any differently than any other text.

Devin Prater
Assistive Technology instructor in training, JAWS Sertified.

> On Dec 12, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Kwork <istherelife@...> wrote:
>
> With my punctuation set to some, it pauses on either side of the
> parenthesis. A comma does the same thing, so I would have to guess which
> is a paren and which a comma. Not that big a deal for me. If I really want
> to know, I'll investigate on my own. I don't know about other punctuation
> levels as about all I use is some, so others would be able to answer that
> better.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tonea.ctr.morrow@...
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 9:12 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Parenthesis
>
> How does the software treat parenthesis (such as this) when it does
> speech? How does it convey to the listener that the comment (possibly
> unimportant) is an aside comment? I need to know so I can understand how
> my audience will hear it, both literally and figuratively.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tonea
>
>





Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app module won't work

 

Dear NVDA community,

 

A few weeks ago someone asked me if I could take a look at the latest incarnation of Skype for Desktop, nowadays known as Skype Preview (version 8.12). Preliminary results and the advisory is as follows:

 

Skype for Desktop has gone through a total redesign, borrowing UI (user interface) elements from universal app version of Skype (Windows 10). Instead of tabs and such, it is now a web interface. The following are notable features:

 

  • Contacts list is a combo box.
  • Call, My Info and other elements are buttons.
  • In order to type messages, you need to switch to focus mode from chat edit box.

 

Thus, you need to be familiar with web navigation concepts and commands to use Skype 8 for Desktop. Also, due to UI redesign, existing Skype app module that ships with NVDA, nor the app module for Skype universal app that ships with Windows 10 App Essentials add-on won’t work.

 

Technical: developer info for Skype objects will return values for both IAccessible and IAccessible2, usually seen with Firefox controls. Basically, it is a web interface packaged as an app. Note that installation of Skype 8 for desktop will fail on Windows 10 because of preference for Skype universal app.

 

Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph