Date   

Re: Caption location

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Actually if they don't let you do It I'd suggest that unless you live in a land in the dark ages perhaps they might think what might happen if a customer took them to court for inaccessible software as its probably against some act or other in the disability legislation.
Its attitudes like you are encountering which prolong the problems we are fighting about inaccessible software. The more the vendors grasp the nettle at the start of development rather than attempting to glue it on afterwards the fairer the world of employment will get for blind people.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: <tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location


No, I want to keep my job.

Tonea

----- Original Message -----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

Is it more likely that you could use a portable version of NVDA than the installed version? You can run it portable not even on the machine, but on a thumb drive. Doing that may be against policy, but I want to bring up all possibilities.

Gene


Re: An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes this can be done, indeed often a radio just near the computer is enough.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Traxler" <howard@traxlerenterprises.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds


Gene, I know what you meant about (mostly un-noticed)sounds. They do, however, usually need some interpretation; which you can work out if necessary.

Back in the '90s I was sometimes called upon to troubleshoot a computer that appeared not to be working. I used a cheap and small portable A M radio. Placed in the computer, somewhere near the CPU and tuned to a spot on the dial that produced the most noise from the computer, I could get the same types of sounds you are getting from your headphones. It was very helpful.

Howard

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 4:46 AM
Subject: [nvda] An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds


People who have followed my comments about sounds may believe that I don't see much use in sounds in general. That isn't the case. I think many sounds people rely on don't give much useful information or duplicate very easily gotten information already available but here is an idea for sounds that give unavailable information or information that is not conveniently available.

Awhile ago, I got a new set of headphones that are unusually efficient. They are so efficient that I can hear the sounds of the processor working softly. I was initially going to buy an adapter with a volume control to get rid of the sounds but I found that they were useful. For example, if I am normalizing a file, the processor makes a certain kind of sound when I'm using the program I normalize with. I don't have to check to see when normalization is finished nor do I need a specific sound, nonexistent, to tell me. I just wait for the processor sound to stop. The same when I'm copying long files. I don't have to check periodically. If I'm downloading something, again, my processor makes a certain repetetive sound. I know when the download has finished by simply not hearing that sound any longer. The same for uploads. I can tell when my computer shuts down because the processor sound stops. I can tell, if I issue the reboot command when the shutdown has ended. That tells me that the reboot should be starting because a certain sound is heard.

I can tell my computer is rebooting and hasn't gotten stuck because I can hear certain specific sounds during boot up. Others may find other useful sounds. Should there be a feature in NVDA or an add on that allows the user to hear such sounds, properly amplified, when desired? They would be played through the sound card and heard over speakers or headphones, whatever is being used. the function could be toggled on and off.

Gene


Re: Recently updated on accessibilitycentral.net

特種兵
 


  if I think reference this nvda tutorials and write a Chinese nvda tutorials,
then let people who use Chinese read, which can I do it and need be care something?
example copyright etc...
http://accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20tutorials.html

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan
Gene New Zealand 於 2017/12/12 下午 04:00 寫道:

Hi guys

Pages recently updated
Recently updated: Added links to NVDA Guides on all NVDA related pages

New: Added a tutorial How to access safe mode in Windows and exit it with the NVDA screen reader by Hareth  and co to the NVDA audio tutorials page under the troubleshooting section http://accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20audio%20tutorials.html Added a tutorial (by Gene Asner) called Navigating ribbons in WordPad (to the NVDA tutorials learning the basics page) http://accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20tutorials%20learning%20the%20basics.html Added a tutorial called Using the Ribbon interface in Windows via the keyboard (by Brian Vogel) to the NVDA tutorials for Windows 10 page. http://accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20tutorials%20for%20windows%2010.html

Gene NZ

--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds

Howard Traxler <howard@...>
 

Gene, I know what you meant about (mostly un-noticed)sounds.  They do, however, usually need some interpretation; which you can work out if necessary. 
 
Back in the '90s I was sometimes called upon to troubleshoot a computer that appeared not to be working.  I used a cheap and small portable A M radio.  Placed in the computer, somewhere near the CPU and tuned to a spot on the dial that produced the most noise from the computer, I could get the same types of sounds you are getting from your headphones.  It was very helpful.
 
Howard
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 4:46 AM
Subject: [nvda] An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds

People who have followed my comments about sounds may believe that I don't see much use in sounds in general.  That isn't the case.  I think many sounds people rely on don't give much useful information or duplicate very easily gotten information already available but here is an idea for sounds that give unavailable information or information that is not conveniently available.
 
Awhile ago, I got a new set of headphones that are unusually efficient.  They are so efficient that I can hear the sounds of the processor working softly.  I was initially going to buy an adapter with a volume control to get rid of the sounds but I found that they were useful.  For example, if I am normalizing a file, the processor makes a certain kind of sound when I'm using the program I normalize with.  I don't have to check to see when normalization is finished nor do I need a specific sound, nonexistent, to tell me.  I just wait for the processor sound to stop.  The same when I'm copying long files.  I don't have to check periodically.  If I'm downloading something, again, my processor makes a certain repetetive sound.  I know when the download has finished by simply not hearing that sound any longer.  The same for uploads.  I can tell when my computer shuts down because the processor sound stops.  I can tell, if I issue the reboot command when the shutdown has ended.  That tells me that the reboot should be starting because a certain sound is heard. 
 
I can tell my computer is rebooting and hasn't gotten stuck because I can hear certain specific sounds during boot up.  Others may find other useful sounds.  Should there be a feature in NVDA or an add on that allows the user to hear such sounds, properly amplified, when desired?  They would be played through the sound card and heard over speakers or headphones, whatever is being used.  the function could be toggled on and off. 
 
Gene


Re: Caption location

tonea.ctr.morrow@...
 

Chuckling to myself—I have a mac at home.

 

Honestly though, I have an autistic son who turns 18 next month and a daughter who turns 16 a month later. I’m lucky if I get time to relax. My house doesn’t warrant a visit from the health department, but I can’t say it is clean either. Try to get a load of dishes or laundry done. Try to make sure everyone has dinner. Try to get two teens to do something resembling helping with the house. Try to listen to their stories about their day. Listen to the umpteenth complaint about how I don’t understand. I’m not being sarcastic when I say that I love my life. I’m needed to the point that I’m important to them, even if they don’t like it. I will miss them in a few years, so I’m enjoying what time I have.

 

Regarding the compliment, I say “Thank You.”

 

Tonea

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Giles Turnbull
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 4:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

 

Hello tonea,

I understand that you're not allowed to install NVDA or JAWS on your work computer without approval from the IT department but, assuming you have your own personal computer at home, have you not thought of installing NVDA on it, just to get a feel for how screen reading software works? Alternatively, could you not arrange a half day visit to a vision rehab training center and ask them to show you JAWS or NVDA in use, and demonstrate how a user can switch the verbocity of punctuation symbols and what effect that has? On your home computer you could try creating a dummy document with parentheses, for example, to see how NVDA reads them, and you would find many people on this list only too happy to tell you where to find the setting to switch symbol level from all to most to some and then to none.

Why not install NVDA at home and then look at your department's public website and read the webpages and PDF file downloads and find out how a visually impaired person using NVDA would experience them? I've worked as a sighted Civil Servant for the Department of Transport in London, and as a blind person on a contract for the Environmental Protection Agency in the US, and I must say it's heartwarming to see somebody so keen to understand how blind and visually impaired people experience the world in which you work :)

Giles

 


Re: Caption location

tonea.ctr.morrow@...
 

No, I want to keep my job.

 

Tonea

 

----- Original Message -----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

 

Is it more likely that you could use a portable version of NVDA than the installed version?  You can run it portable not even on the machine, but on a thumb drive.  Doing that may be against policy, but I want to bring up all possibilities.

 

Gene

 


Re: Question about SAP and Netweaver

Adriani Botez
 

Dear Quentin,

I have provided Sap with your data and some infos aboit nvda (referenced some issues related to sap(. I have also sent you and nv access some contacts.

I wish you nice holyday and merry Christmas.

Best
Adriani


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 15.12.2017 um 07:50 schrieb Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>:

Dear Adriani,

This is fantastic information, thank you!

Also, yes, I'd be happy to be in touch with the SAP accessibility team, please do pass on my details.

I am about to go on leave until the 15th of Jan, but will pop in over the break for anything urgent.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 5:30 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@...> wrote:
Deear Quentin,

I am working in net viewer every day. You can have a look at #7091 on github.

Netviewer works quite well since its functions are browser based. In any case, the user should enable  screen reader support in netviewer settings.
I would advice the user to uncheck the button tables in nvda‘s document formating settings. The reason is that NVDA reports tables almost on every line if the button is checked.
The most significant issue in netviewer is following: if you are in a data table or a form and you are just reviewing it without clicking on edit, NVDA reports for example „yes, radio button not available not checked“ although the button is checked. Thus, the user must click on edit every time if he or she wants to review thee correct status of the button which costs lot of time.

If he  or she must use sap gui, accessibility and subscripting must be activated on server and client in sap gui options. But as of now, SAP has created only an addon for jaws which works with sap gui. 

I know a blind guy who is working at SAP here in Germany. They are veryopen to work together with NV Access on an alternative addon for NVDA.

They have an accessibility team. If you wish I can bring you in contact with them.



Best
Adriani

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 15.12.2017 um 06:25 schrieb Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>:

Hi everyone,

I've had an enquiry from someone about the accessibility of SAP.  They advised they are using (or will need to use) ECC 6 Enhancement Pack 6 and NetWeaver Portal 7.3 Enhancement Pack 1.

I see a couple of issues on our tracker from a couple of years ago about SAP but would be interested in hearing from anyone with more recent experience as to whether it works and if so, how well or what issues there currently are, please?

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: The old NVDA won't start after an update problem again

 

hello.
i think that this issuee is resolved in nvda 17.4
in which versions of nvda, did you have this problem?

On 12/14/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
I am posting this here as I originally started an issue on Github about it
and wondered now if anyone else had seen the same thing.
Basically if you update nvda either portably or for an installed copy, be
it the release, release candidate or either snapshot branch, sometimes, but

not always, Nvda will not reboot automatically. It stops working, so you
cannot hear that an error box is on screen about nvda being unable to write

to the log file. It has however created a small log in the program files
folder wherever you had put it of course.
The problem in my mind is that it is not shutting down the old copy before

its starting the new one which of course results in the new copy trying to
rename the log file and start a new one, which it is unable to achieve hence

the problem.
I started to wonder what might cause this, and I think, looking at the log

of the temp copy doing the update its a problem with windows getting behind

processing file handling requests. Have a look at this update log. Those
of a disposition who hate watching paint dry should stop reading here!

DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:27.374):
Python warning:
C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Local\Temp\nsk588E.tmp\app\library.zip\configobj.py:28:

DeprecationWarning: The compiler package is deprecated and removed in Python

3.x.
IO - speech.speak (17:11:27.434):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Updating NVDA dialog Please wait

while your previous installation of NVDA is being updated.']
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:27.460):
installer.tryCopyFile:
Unable to copy
\\?\C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Local\Temp\nsk588E.tmp\app\nvda_eoaProxy.exe,
error 32
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:27.464):
installer.tryCopyFile:
Unable to copy
\\?\C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Local\Temp\nsk588E.tmp\app\python27.dll, error
32
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:27.490):
installer.tryCopyFile:
Unable to copy
\\?\C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Local\Temp\nsk588E.tmp\app\_ctypes.pyd, error 32
IO - tones.beep (17:11:28.296):
Beep at pitch 440, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
IO - speech.speak (17:11:28.299):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Please wait']
IO - tones.beep (17:11:28.331):
Beep at pitch 110.0, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
IO - speech.speak (17:11:28.334):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'0 percent']
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:28.940):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\IAccessible2proxy.dll'
IO - tones.beep (17:11:29.309):
Beep at pitch 440, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:29.943):
installer.tryRemoveFile:
Failed to delete file C:\Program Files
(x86)\NVDA\lib\master-14715,94bc05be\tmp9mt4pu, marking for delete on
reboot
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:29.946):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\ISimpleDOM.dll'
IO - tones.beep (17:11:30.325):
Beep at pitch 440, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:30.948):
installer.tryRemoveFile:
Failed to delete file C:\Program Files
(x86)\NVDA\lib\master-14715,94bc05be\tmpdfgzmm, marking for delete on
reboot
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:30.953):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\minHook.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:30.957):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\nvdaHelperLocal.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:30.960):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\nvdaHelperLocalWin10.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:30.963):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\nvdaHelperRemote.dll'
IO - tones.beep (17:11:31.338):
Beep at pitch 440, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.966):
installer.tryRemoveFile:
Failed to delete file C:\Program Files
(x86)\NVDA\lib\master-14715,94bc05be\tmpof9all, marking for delete on
reboot
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.969):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_adobeAcrobat.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.971):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_adobeFlash.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.974):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_gecko_ia2.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.977):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_lotusNotesRichText.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.983):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_mshtml.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.986):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_webKit.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.990):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Skipping current install lib path: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14729,3152eacc'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.992):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib directory: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14705,36a03f17'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.993):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib directory: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be'
WARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.994):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Failed to remove a directory no longer needed. This can be manually removed

after a reboot or the installer will try removing it again next time.
Directory: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.996):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib directory: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14729,3152eacc'
WARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.997):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Failed to remove a directory no longer needed. This can be manually removed

after a reboot or the installer will try removing it again next time.
Directory: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14729,3152eacc'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:32.000):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\IAccessible2proxy.dll'
IO - tones.beep (17:11:32.351):
Beep at pitch 440, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:33.002):
installer.tryRemoveFile:
Failed to delete file C:\Program Files
(x86)\NVDA\lib64\master-14715,94bc05be\tmpkocqtp, marking for delete on
reboot
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:33.005):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\ISimpleDOM.dll'
IO - tones.beep (17:11:33.365):
Beep at pitch 440, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.009):
installer.tryRemoveFile:
Failed to delete file C:\Program Files
(x86)\NVDA\lib64\master-14715,94bc05be\tmp2h9urt, marking for delete on
reboot
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.012):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\minHook.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.015):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\nvdaHelperRemote.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.017):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\nvdaHelperRemoteLoader.exe'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.020):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_adobeAcrobat.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.023):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_adobeFlash.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.026):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_gecko_ia2.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.029):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_lotusNotesRichText.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.032):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_mshtml.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.036):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_webKit.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.038):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Skipping current install lib path: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14729,3152eacc'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.039):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib directory: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14705,36a03f17'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.040):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib directory: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be'
WARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.042):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Failed to remove a directory no longer needed. This can be manually removed

after a reboot or the installer will try removing it again next time.
Directory: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.043):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib directory: u'C:\\Program Files
(x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14729,3152eacc'
WARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.045):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Failed to remove a directory no longer needed. This can be manually removed

after a reboot or the installer will try removing it again next time.
Directory: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14729,3152eacc'
IO - tones.beep (17:11:34.055):
Beep at pitch 1760, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
INFO - core.main (17:11:34.206):
Exiting
DEBUG - core._terminate (17:11:34.206):
Terminating updateCheck
DEBUG - core._terminate (17:11:34.206):
Terminating watchdog
DEBUG - core._terminate (17:11:34.206):
Terminating global plugin handler
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 4956 (nvda_update_41yb8b.exe) (17:11:35.269):
Thread 332, build\x86\remote\ia2Support.cpp, IA2Support_inProcess_terminate,

152:
WaitForMultipleObjects returned 258


Seemingly the termination never got to write the rest to the log.
Brian


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in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
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best website for studying islamic book in different languages
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Quentin on leave

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

Officially, I'm on leave now until the 15th of January.  While I'll still pop in now and then, I won't be as active for the next few weeks.  I know you will all be as helpful as ever in my absence, and also if there is anything particularly important or which needs my attention when I get back, do feel free to email or CC me so I see it.

I know Mick is also taking a similar amount of leave and I'm not sure how much Reef is taking.  In any case, things will likely be quiet all round officially from us.

Do have a wonderful, happy, holy and safe Christmas and New Year and I look forward to many stimulating conversations with you all in 2018!

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


What is the point of Windows 10S?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

This question came up recently due to nvaccess preparing a version of nvda for the App store for this version of Windows.
Just reading the info on line very quickly, and correct me if I'm wrong, this is a very crippled version which only runs universal apps from the store at present, and hence does not have the ability to run a full nvda either.
Who is this intended for?
I ask as to me most commercial and educational organisations would want an operating system that supports future expansion of third party software or bespoke configuration both of which seem not to be the aim of this version of Windows. It seems although supposedly very secure a bit of a Mickey mouse tonka tooy system.
As this will obviously affect nvda as it will need this special version I feel its on topic here. Who is it meant for and why?
Brian

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Re: testing 1 2 1 2

Gene
 

Maybe you should get a different e-mail provider for this list and others if you have this problem wth lists in general.  I use a small provider and I pay 5 U.S. dolars a month.  I have complete control over the provider's spam filter, the webmail interface is very accessible if I ever need to use it for some reason, and, aside from brief down times, perhaps two or three times a year, perhaps lasting an hour or two, I have very efficient delivery. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 3:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] testing 1 2 1 2

Well I can and indeed did pop onto the web site to have a look. It appears
that the threads did eventually come though on my email this morning but
were on the web list yesterday very quickly, so I suspect a problem in the
email side from wherever to Virgin or maybe inside virgin. I will have a
look later on at the headers but that usually makes my brain hurt and from
past experience, trying to suggest to an ISP that they have an issue is an
uphill struggle bearing in mind the language issues of most support staff
being half way round the world!

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] testing 1 2 1 2


> Apologies for replying to something you particularly asked us not to, but
> I
> just wonder whether it might be useful for you (maybe if this recurs in
> future?) to post the subject lines of the new threads you created, so we
> can
> respond if we have seen them (but you haven't, for some reason), possibly
> adding a bit more information to whatever is going on.
>
>
> Antony.
>
> On Thursday 14 December 2017 at 18:59:45, Brian's Mail list account via
> Groups.Io wrote:
>
>> I've created a couple of new threads just now but neither has shown up
>> yet
>> while replies to existing ones have.
>> So please do not respond to this. the issue merely is can I see this
>> message. Brian
>
> --
> This email was created using 100% recycled electrons.
>
>                                                   Please reply to the
> list;
>                                                         please *don't* CC
> me.
>
>
>




Future of older add ons

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I see one possible issue coming along. I am still seeing people with XP Machines and they are happy to use the older version of nvda, but could I ask that when, gradually add ons are audited to take advantage of the new features in the later nvda versions or work when it goes into the next version of the compiler, that the old add ons are archived somewhere where people can still obtain them for the older code.
Thanks.
Btrian

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Re: Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app module won't work

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

If it happens one would suspect it would be after windows 7 goes end of life. Even after that you don't have to update from what I can see it says optional update.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 3:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app module won't work


Yeah I dunno. I know there was talk on the skype english list about this a few months ago, but there was no true answer, yes or no, if skype for desktop was going to die and or when. I guess we'll have to wait and see eh?

Take care

On Dec 14, 2017, at 4:45 PM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@gmail.com> wrote:

So the question I want to know is will Skype Classic die soon? I guess we'll have to wait on MS's answer in the future. On the Skype English hosted on the groups.io <http://groups.io/> radio network nobody has broached said subject. Oh well if that's the case. Universal Skype for WIN 10 works OK.


On 12/13/2017 11:10 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Dear NVDA community,

A few weeks ago someone asked me if I could take a look at the latest incarnation of Skype for Desktop, nowadays known as Skype Preview (version 8.12). Preliminary results and the advisory is as follows:

Skype for Desktop has gone through a total redesign, borrowing UI (user interface) elements from universal app version of Skype (Windows 10). Instead of tabs and such, it is now a web interface. The following are notable features:

Contacts list is a combo box.
Call, My Info and other elements are buttons.
In order to type messages, you need to switch to focus mode from chat edit box.

Thus, you need to be familiar with web navigation concepts and commands to use Skype 8 for Desktop. Also, due to UI redesign, existing Skype app module that ships with NVDA, nor the app module for Skype universal app that ships with Windows 10 App Essentials add-on won’t work.

Technical: developer info for Skype objects will return values for both IAccessible and IAccessible2, usually seen with Firefox controls. Basically, it is a web interface packaged as an app. Note that installation of Skype 8 for desktop will fail on Windows 10 because of preference for Skype universal app.

Thanks.
Cheers,
Joseph


Re: nvda donations and costs

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Not seen any blog on this of late but a few years back it was on the nvaccess web site. If you are interested email somebody like Mick I'd suggest.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 11:39 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda donations and costs


Hey folks, I'm curious to know if there is a publicly available
accounting of costs and donations to NV Access or NVDA.

Sometimes it inspires giving when people know how much money is needed
to reach a goal.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Rusty


Re: testing 1 2 1 2

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

That was indeed correct it only affected new threads.
I'm keeping an eye on it.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] testing 1 2 1 2


Oh, I thought his comment that he has seen replies to existing threads to mean
that he was still receiving mail from the list, and the fact that he had not
seen the new threads he had created as suggesting he suspected a problem with
them reaching the list, so my interpretation was the other way round from
yours.

Sorry for the inappropriate posting.


Antony.

On Thursday 14 December 2017 at 23:21:54, Gene wrote:

It would create clutter for no advantage. I'm not Brian but if he wanted a
response from others, he would ask. He is testing his receipt of mail,
not whether his messages are reaching the list.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 4:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] testing 1 2 1 2


Apologies for replying to something you particularly asked us not to, but I
just wonder whether it might be useful for you (maybe if this recurs in
future?) to post the subject lines of the new threads you created, so we
can respond if we have seen them (but you haven't, for some reason),
possibly adding a bit more information to whatever is going on.


Antony.

On Thursday 14 December 2017 at 18:59:45, Brian's Mail list account via>
Groups.Io wrote:
I've created a couple of new threads just now but neither has shown up
yet while replies to existing ones have.
So please do not respond to this. the issue merely is can I see this
message. Brian
--
"I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does
mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously."

- Douglas Adams

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: testing 1 2 1 2

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well I can and indeed did pop onto the web site to have a look. It appears that the threads did eventually come though on my email this morning but were on the web list yesterday very quickly, so I suspect a problem in the email side from wherever to Virgin or maybe inside virgin. I will have a look later on at the headers but that usually makes my brain hurt and from past experience, trying to suggest to an ISP that they have an issue is an uphill struggle bearing in mind the language issues of most support staff being half way round the world!

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] testing 1 2 1 2


Apologies for replying to something you particularly asked us not to, but I
just wonder whether it might be useful for you (maybe if this recurs in
future?) to post the subject lines of the new threads you created, so we can
respond if we have seen them (but you haven't, for some reason), possibly
adding a bit more information to whatever is going on.


Antony.

On Thursday 14 December 2017 at 18:59:45, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

I've created a couple of new threads just now but neither has shown up yet
while replies to existing ones have.
So please do not respond to this. the issue merely is can I see this
message. Brian
--
This email was created using 100% recycled electrons.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes I hate being able to even hear a hard drive noise on the audio, it shows poor design to my mind.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds


Yes, but no. You can go to, well I dunno now, and buy a dynamic phone patch and amp and plug that in, and make yoru own gismo. I had a friend who did this and I borrowed it to diag a bad drive once. Said friend also knew I was recording when I felt him walk up to me and touch my recorder. I hear the buzz of data.

On Dec 14, 2017, at 2:46 AM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

People who have followed my comments about sounds may believe that I don't see much use in sounds in general. That isn't the case. I think many sounds people rely on don't give much useful information or duplicate very easily gotten information already available but here is an idea for sounds that give unavailable information or information that is not conveniently available.

Awhile ago, I got a new set of headphones that are unusually efficient. They are so efficient that I can hear the sounds of the processor working softly. I was initially going to buy an adapter with a volume control to get rid of the sounds but I found that they were useful. For example, if I am normalizing a file, the processor makes a certain kind of sound when I'm using the program I normalize with. I don't have to check to see when normalization is finished nor do I need a specific sound, nonexistent, to tell me. I just wait for the processor sound to stop. The same when I'm copying long files. I don't have to check periodically. If I'm downloading something, again, my processor makes a certain repetetive sound. I know when the download has finished by simply not hearing that sound any longer. The same for uploads. I can tell when my computer shuts down because the processor sound stops. I can tell, if I issue the reboot command when the shutdown has ended. That tells me that the reboot should be starting because a certain sound is heard.

I can tell my computer is rebooting and hasn't gotten stuck because I can hear certain specific sounds during boot up. Others may find other useful sounds. Should there be a feature in NVDA or an add on that allows the user to hear such sounds, properly amplified, when desired? They would be played through the sound card and heard over speakers or headphones, whatever is being used. the function could be toggled on and off.

Gene


Re: Installing eclipse

Tony Malykh
 

I just found an even better way to install Eclipse (and many other programs too). A couple of years ago Microsoft released a new command line package manager Chocolatey (I believe only for Windows 10), and with it you can install Eclipse with just one line:


choco install eclipse


The cool thing is that it will also figure out that eclipse depends on java and it'll automatically download and install the right version of java. That's it, no hassle with installers. You have to install chocolatey first though, but that's another one-liner.

On 12/4/2017 12:30 PM, Tony Malykh wrote:
I think I figured out where to find zip releases of eclipse. It's not trivial, so let me leave the instructions here in case someone is reading this thread from the archives.


1. Go to eclipse downloads page:

https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/

2. Click "Download packages"

3. Click "Other builds"

4. In the list of builds you probably want to select the latest stable release, 4.7.1a in my case.

5. Then it'll take you to the page with all the build options. Select zip version for windows.


Tony



On 12/3/2017 1:38 PM, Tony Malykh wrote:
Sorry for being silly but could you point me to a zip version of eclipse? I checked everywhere on the official eclipse website, and I could only find 32-bit and 64-bit exe installers for windows.


Thanks

Tony



On 12/3/2017 3:19 AM, Jaffar Sidek wrote:
As long as you do not install Java 9 but Java 8 update 51, you are ok.  32 bit Java is still present with this latest Java 8 update. Cheers!.  ,


On 3/12/2017 6:08 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
is there not an issue over the 32 Access bridge not being available any more though, or was I asleep during the last debate on here about this?
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Jaffar Sidek" <jaffar.sidek10@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2017 1:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Installing eclipse


HI. Do not download the .exe version as the installer is not at all accessible. Download the .zip version, then if you already have the latest Java installed, unzip it to your main drive, drive C in most cases. Also, remember to switch access bridge on. To do that, go to Ease Of Access center, navigate to the link that says "Use your computer without a display" or something to that effect, then go to the access bridge check box and check it. That should do the trick. Cheers!


On 3/12/2017 8:12 AM, Tony Malykh wrote:
Hello everyone,


I've heard that Eclipse is a popular IDE among VI people, so I've decided to give it a try. However, it's installer doesn't seem to be accessible to me. How do you guys install it?


So I successfully installed JDK 9 64-bit (since eclipse installer asked for it).


I downloaded an official Eclipse oxygen 64-bit installer from here:

http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/

And when I start it, it shows me a window with unlabelled buttons, editboxes, etc.


Am I doing anything wrong? Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Thank you

Tony













Golden Cursor 2.0 is under development

 

Dear NVDA community,

 

This is Joseph Lee, the current caretaker maintainer for Golden Cursor add-on. As the add-ons community has lost contact with the original developer of this add-on, I’m serving as a temporary maintainer until we find someone who can move this project forward. The below notice is considered a product change notice, as a major version of the add-on is under development as we speak:

 

Originally, I was going to release the next version of Golden Cursor as version 1.4. However, after inspecting the add-on source code, it was decided to make significant changes to this add-on, namely to bring it up to speed with new NVDA features, prepare for Python 3 transition, remove old dependencies and make the source code more readable. Due to possible backwards incompatible changes, I’m naming the next release version 2.0 (also to be known as version 18.0x following year.month scheme).

 

Golden Cursor 2.0 (scheduled for January 2018 or later) does not add new features; rather, it brings the add-on code up to speed with NVDA developments. Planned changes include:

 

  • Preparing for Python 3 transition by making the source code compatible with Python 2 and 3.
  • Edits to the source code to make it more readable.
  • Removing dependence on one or two obsolete modules.
  • Performance tweaks (if possible via bytecode analysis/disassembly and other work).
  • Needed edits to parts of the user interface to make it grammatically correct and fix spelling issues, as well as make the overall UI appearance more beautiful by using latest developments in NVDA GUI.
  • Make it translator friendly.
  • If there’s demand, make the add-on extension points aware (that is, perform an action when configuration profile is switched; requires NVDA 2017.4).
  • If there’s demand, add touchscreen commands to manipulate the mouse just like on a keyboard.

 

Of all these work, I asked the add-ons community to send me pull requests regarding dependencies. There are certain things I am more suited to do, including touchscreen commands, performance analysis, translation preparation and a few others. As for the rest, this is where talented (and newly discovered) developers, testers, and the entire community comes into play.

 

As for the add-on repo: we won’t be using Bitbucket to coordinate this work. In fact, I’d ask you NOT to send pull requests on that platform anymore. If possible, please use GitHub and the current official repo at:

https://github.com/josephsl/goldenCursor

 

Once my work is done and we find the next official maintainer, I’ll ask him or her to create an official GitHub under the maintainer’s account (not the add-on account).

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Question about SAP and Netweaver

Quentin Christensen
 

Dear Adriani,

This is fantastic information, thank you!

Also, yes, I'd be happy to be in touch with the SAP accessibility team, please do pass on my details.

I am about to go on leave until the 15th of Jan, but will pop in over the break for anything urgent.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 5:30 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@...> wrote:
Deear Quentin,

I am working in net viewer every day. You can have a look at #7091 on github.

Netviewer works quite well since its functions are browser based. In any case, the user should enable  screen reader support in netviewer settings.
I would advice the user to uncheck the button tables in nvda‘s document formating settings. The reason is that NVDA reports tables almost on every line if the button is checked.
The most significant issue in netviewer is following: if you are in a data table or a form and you are just reviewing it without clicking on edit, NVDA reports for example „yes, radio button not available not checked“ although the button is checked. Thus, the user must click on edit every time if he or she wants to review thee correct status of the button which costs lot of time.

If he  or she must use sap gui, accessibility and subscripting must be activated on server and client in sap gui options. But as of now, SAP has created only an addon for jaws which works with sap gui. 

I know a blind guy who is working at SAP here in Germany. They are veryopen to work together with NV Access on an alternative addon for NVDA.

They have an accessibility team. If you wish I can bring you in contact with them.



Best
Adriani

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 15.12.2017 um 06:25 schrieb Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>:

Hi everyone,

I've had an enquiry from someone about the accessibility of SAP.  They advised they are using (or will need to use) ECC 6 Enhancement Pack 6 and NetWeaver Portal 7.3 Enhancement Pack 1.

I see a couple of issues on our tracker from a couple of years ago about SAP but would be interested in hearing from anyone with more recent experience as to whether it works and if so, how well or what issues there currently are, please?

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess