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Re: Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi,
The why part should be pretty obvious. I have had my screen at 0
percent and sighted people can still see it very clearly.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 12/17/17, David Moore <jesusloves1966@gmail.com> wrote: I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over their
shoulder for prying eyes.
That is a great point! Good come back LOL!
I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something right
there!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Kevin Chao
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information, which
we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when someone
is looking over their shoulders.
On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows settings
and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it. If you
unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance
or performance problem, the screen should be on.
The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a sighted
person can work with the machine if needed.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: David Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people
will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen
readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for
you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade,
because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.
I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.
It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be
employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should
be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with
a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!
NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad
it doesn’t.
It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS,
and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi
I agree with Joseph.
There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not
use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features
that help.
if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if
one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.
then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that
code gets added to the core of nvda.
Gene nz
On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:
well fare enough, but I still think it should be in the core one day in
nvda. if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a
feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good
thing for nvda to have built in.
On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe
that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on
screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do
understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out
below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of
another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm
uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot
guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including
sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin
Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my
laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda
and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say
other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.
On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi Joseeph,
Thanks for the clarification.
Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply
switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the
Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both
advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.
I agree with the rest.
If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)
Kind Regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a
blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users.
Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee
privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille
displays, remote access, etc.).
From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery
life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window
is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this
overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may
think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it
should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more
appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should
developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for
me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen
reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi all,
I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.
When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand
why it would not save on battery....
The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is
one of the main power sinks in such systems.
On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.
Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).
Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.
Kind regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.
In the issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi,
VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.
Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!
--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material
at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New
Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA
screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or
location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa
People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please
visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The
certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals
from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert
exam.
|
|
|
Re: Screen Shade/curtain?
I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over their shoulder for prying eyes. That is a great point! Good come back LOL! I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something right there! David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Kevin ChaoSent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.ioSubject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain? Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information, which we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when someone is looking over their shoulders. On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote: As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it. If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance or performance problem, the screen should be on. The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if needed. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain? I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings. I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade. It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL! NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad it doesn’t. It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer. David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10 Hi I agree with Joseph. There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that help. if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not. then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda. Gene nz On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote: well fare enough, but I still think it should be in the core one day in nvda. if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.
On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.
On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi Joseeph,
Thanks for the clarification.
Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.
I agree with the rest.
If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)
Kind Regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi all,
I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.
When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....
The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.
On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.
Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).
Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.
Kind regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote: From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.
In the issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi,
VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.
Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!
--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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Yes, great point! We must remember that many people do not have a fast Internet speed. The size of a download matters a lot. We are downloading all of our programs now. David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Rui FontesSent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:29 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.ioSubject: Re: [nvda] competition Sorry, Gene, but I do not agree with you... 1 - As other member said, remember that the two major "markets" are India and Brazil. In those two countries, specially India, but also some parts of Brazil, every Mb of downloads count... 2 - Several NVDA actual core functions have started as addons, and since their utility the NVDA team included it in the core... So, not a duplicate of efforts, but more as a field test of the utility of that function... 3 - Every NVDA local or/and language community should maintain a database of the major addosns available to use. Rui Às 01:15 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] competition What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use. El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió: Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core... Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core... Regards, Rui Fontes Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
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Re: Screen Shade/curtain?
Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information, which we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when someone is looking over their shoulders.
On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene < gsasner@...> wrote:
As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen
in the Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do
it. If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of
maintenance or performance problem, the screen should be on.
The screen shade has the advantage that the screen
is still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if
needed.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
I agree that we should only have features in screen readers
that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in
some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do
searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen
shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.
I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.
It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for
someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs,
that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be
accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard
LOL!
NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has
either. I am so glad it doesn’t.
It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to
install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows
10
Hi
I agree with Joseph.
There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use
so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that
help.
if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one
is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.
then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code
gets added to the core of nvda.
Gene nz
On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
wrote:
well fare enough, but I still think it should
be in the core one day in nvda. if you don't want to use it then
fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that
is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.
On
17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work
all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the
community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA
Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional
features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one
pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the
lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm
uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot
guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including
sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
it does not work on my
2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this
but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to
say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is
very heavy handed.
On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not
always.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On
Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi Joseeph,
Thanks for the clarification.
Indeed, showing a
blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the
screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or
similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the
pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.
I agree with
the rest.
If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more
worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)
Kind
Regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee
wrote:
Hi,
As noted by some members, screen
shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to
"guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks
around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there
are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote
access, etc.).
From what I can gather, this function
does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this
function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other
windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above,
this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this
being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not.
If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate
solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should
developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally
for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another
screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On
Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi all,
I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.
When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not
understand why it would not save on battery....
The backlight of
a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the
main power sinks in such systems.
On a laptop, you can often
(this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between
different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal
send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5
to save battery.
Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that,
although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen
(to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the
backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info,
let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the
case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely
transparent to windows).
Once again, I am not sure what this
functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking
about something completely different.
Kind regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list
account via Groups.Io wrote:
From what I know about Windows and
indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie
its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then
I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a
screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to
be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window
not the visible one.
In the issues tracker there is a
thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop
is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@...,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original
Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda]
Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi,
VoiceOver
has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.
Does NVDA have a similar
feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!
--
![Image NVDA
certified expert]()
Check out my
website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites
you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find
out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you,
please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/.
The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals
from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert
exam.
|
|
|
Re: Screen Shade/curtain?
Actually I have to agree with Joseph heere. You want JAWS buy JAWS for its features. Its your decision.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 12/17/2017 5:47 PM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote: well fare enough, but I still think it should be in the core one day in nvda. if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.
On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.
On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi Joseeph,
Thanks for the clarification.
Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.
I agree with the rest.
If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)
Kind Regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi all,
I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.
When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....
The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.
On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.
Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).
Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.
Kind regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.
In the issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi,
VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.
Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!
|
|
|
Sorry, Gene, but I do not agree with you...
1 - As other member said, remember that the two major "markets"
are India and Brazil.
In those two countries, specially India, but also some parts of
Brazil, every Mb of downloads count...
2 - Several NVDA actual core functions have started as addons,
and since their utility the NVDA team included it in the core...
So, not a duplicate of efforts, but more as a field test of the
utility of that function...
3 - Every NVDA local or/and language community should maintain a
database of the major addosns available to use.
Rui
Às 01:15 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there
are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any
add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand
the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really
matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking about
including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add
ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind
people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will
never use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of
spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make
it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the
ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should
be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary
AddOns for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui
Fontes escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with
NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start
being part of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a
specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene
escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other
screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about
whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by
an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual
screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA
development time and resources should be put into this
project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should
do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does
it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there
is no reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by
having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they
were really scripts, but they were available to users as add
ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at
the time of installation. Many users of whatever
screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know
anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that
should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are
downloaded and are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a
feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is
that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never
use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were
done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as
running add ons at the time of download and installation or
portable use, the whole question and argument about whether
something should be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018
and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is
whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to
get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't
afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird
|
|
|
Re: Screen Shade/curtain?
As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen
in the Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do
it. If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of
maintenance or performance problem, the screen should be on.
The screen shade has the advantage that the screen
is still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if
needed.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
I agree that we should only have features in screen readers
that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in
some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do
searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen
shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.
I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.
It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for
someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs,
that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be
accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard
LOL!
NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has
either. I am so glad it doesn’t.
It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to
install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows
10
Hi
I agree with Joseph.
There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use
so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that
help.
if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one
is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.
then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code
gets added to the core of nvda.
Gene nz
On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
wrote:
well fare enough, but I still think it should
be in the core one day in nvda. if you don't want to use it then
fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that
is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.
On
17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work
all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the
community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA
Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional
features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one
pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the
lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm
uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot
guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including
sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
it does not work on my
2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this
but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to
say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is
very heavy handed.
On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not
always.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On
Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi Joseeph,
Thanks for the clarification.
Indeed, showing a
blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the
screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or
similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the
pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.
I agree with
the rest.
If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more
worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)
Kind
Regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee
wrote:
Hi,
As noted by some members, screen
shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to
"guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks
around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there
are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote
access, etc.).
From what I can gather, this function
does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this
function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other
windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above,
this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this
being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not.
If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate
solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should
developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally
for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another
screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On
Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi all,
I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.
When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not
understand why it would not save on battery....
The backlight of
a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the
main power sinks in such systems.
On a laptop, you can often
(this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between
different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal
send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5
to save battery.
Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that,
although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen
(to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the
backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info,
let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the
case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely
transparent to windows).
Once again, I am not sure what this
functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking
about something completely different.
Kind regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list
account via Groups.Io wrote:
From what I know about Windows and
indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie
its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then
I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a
screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to
be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window
not the visible one.
In the issues tracker there is a
thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop
is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@...,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original
Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda]
Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi,
VoiceOver
has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.
Does NVDA have a similar
feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!
--
Check out my
website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites
you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find
out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you,
please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/.
The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals
from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert
exam.
|
|
|
Most of the extra space in JAWS is taken up by the
OCR feature. And JAWS doesn't take a lot of memory, which anyone
interested can check when JAWS is running. I'm not talking about when it
is used with something like the putatively natural sounding voices. I'm
talking about when JAWS is used with Eloquence.
As for making NVDA larger, it often takes years for
a feature that is available as an add on to be incorporated into NVDA. I
see no benefit to users to simply not including an add on, once it is determined
that the functunality should be a part of NVDA itself. Someone else asked
if making add ons a part of NVDA would make it more difficult to operate.
Why should it? If you just don't use whatever commands the add on uses,
why shouldNVDA be any different to use than now?
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
If many add ons are automatically downloaded with the screen
reader, won’t that make the screan reader take up more room on the computer,
leave a larger foot print, and just make the screen reader itself more
complicated to use?
The great thing about NVDA that I like, is that you can have
a very small, snappy, even portable program, and you can add just the add ons
that you need. The fact that NVDA does not have a ton of features built in,
makes it so easy to install, run, and you don’t need a ton of memory and space
like you need with JAWS, for example.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows
10
Hi Gene
I when i gave windows eyes a test drive was a feature i wouldive turned
off.
There was stuff or what ever they were called were downloaded to the
screen reader weather i wanted them or not.
You should not be forced to get them and pick only the ones you want.
There are people on this list with none some and quite a few add ons.
They should not be forced to get them but they need to be aware of them just
in case they need that extra functionality.
Gene nz
On 12/18/2017 1:07 PM, Gene wrote:
NVDA doesn't have to
adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't
have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly
or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual
screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development
time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on
wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add
ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does
it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any
substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to
accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously
called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add
ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of
installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never
learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add
ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and
are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done,
the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away
with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add
ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were
done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons
at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question
and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away
with.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December
17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda]
competition
When it comes to the new screen
shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function
the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other
screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen
reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen
reader.
--
Check out my
website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites
you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find
out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you,
please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/.
The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals
from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert
exam.
|
|
|
Re: Screen Shade/curtain?
The reason why I never really took to that option is that there are times where you may need the help of working eyes for reasons x, y or z and next thing you know, you're without speech and now you can't get any sighted help to maybe get you out of a bind and you don’t' want to start tryign all sorts of keyboard commands not knowing if your work is being saved, messed up or god forbid you're doing something to your settings.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pranav Lal Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:11 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain? Hi all, One way that has worked for me in the past is to hit windows key + p and then to choose an external display. The screen does turn off. You have to then do this upon every reboot. In addition, several years ago, a company called Techno-Vision in the UK made a physical device that would turn off the screen. It still works. It plugs into the display port of a laptop and is treated like a display. See http://techno-vision.co.uk and ask them if they still have the device. The problem with an app solution is that on many corporate systems, it is difficult to install because you need permission. Pranav -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 3:26 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain? it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed. On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi Joseeph,
Thanks for the clarification.
Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.
I agree with the rest.
If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)
Kind Regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi all,
I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.
When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....
The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.
On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.
Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).
Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.
Kind regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.
In the issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi,
VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.
Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!
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Why not take the lead from modern browsers like FireFox and Chrome when considering what’s an add-on and what’s an integrated part of the program itself? Think of it as NVDAZilla… Incorperate what may be considered essential functions or would at the very least be highly useful towards the user experience and leave everything else for folks to tailor as they see fit? Sure that may still be left open to interpretation, but could at least be considered as a base to work off from. Take FireFoxes reader view or whatever it’s called. In Chrome, you can install various extensions to strip down a website for easier reading, whereas in FireFox, this feature was finally built into the browser itself starting in the versions 40s. It’s as easy as doing an alt+control+r to toggle on and off. I for the most part hardly use the Jaws Flexible Web feature anymore when doing general browsing since I find this to be a faster means of getting in and out of a site if I’m just passing through instead of maybe a page or domain I would be going back to over and over again. Having a reader mode or pagination command in NVDA I think would be useful by pretty much anyone. Not to say there couldn’t be add-ons built separately, but something like that… would essentially enhance the user experience.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition That is an arbitrary distinction.
Do you want JAWS to drop all nonessential scripts? I don't think many people would support dropping Winamp support in JAWS. In NVDA, what difference does it make if this support is achieved by an add-on, a script, or in some other way. When do you define a script as a core function. the distinction that no add ons should be shipped and running because they are not core functions is arbitrary. and, to be consistent, why is the links list a core function? I consider the links list to be a harmful feature for inexperienced users because it sounds wonderful to an inexperienced user but, if used before a thorough understanding of navigation is achieved, hinders learning by encouraging people to work in a completely artificial environment. I'm not trying to start an argument about the links list. I'm pointing out that the core function ideology isn't consistently followed even now, though it mostly is. its time to seriously consider the question, why must there be a distinction between add ons and the core of NVDA? Why shouldn't some add ons be a part of NVDA. Wouldn't developer resources be better spent doing other things than duplicating functions available as add ons so they may be placed in the core? Just include the add ons as part of the product. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] competition Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core... Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core... Regards, Rui Fontes Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
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I think we fail to remember how fortunate many of us are with
decent internet connections in developed countries.
The top NVDA downloads come from India, with a growth of 8000
users just in the last quarter.
For many internet users, every megabyte makes a difference.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 18/12/2017 10:50 am, Mark wrote:
I agree,
I think there should be NVDA remote bilt in
to NVDA
Mark.
Tune in to the number one station on the
web TAFN radio
http://listen.tafn.org.uk:8027/stream
Or for our catch up service on demand
http://www.tafn.org.uk/on-demand or to find out more ways of
listening go to http://www.tafn.org.uk/radio
part of the accessible friends network
www.tafn.org.uk
Registered UK Charity: #1108043.
Hi Gene
I when i gave windows eyes a test drive was a feature i
wouldive turned off.
There was stuff or what ever they were called were
downloaded to the screen reader weather i wanted them or not.
You should not be forced to get them and pick only the ones
you want.
There are people on this list with none some and quite a few
add ons.
They should not be forced to get them but they need to be
aware of them just in case they need that extra functionality.
Gene nz
On 12/18/2017 1:07 PM, Gene wrote:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every
popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I
don't have much opinion about whether this feature is
implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a
peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader
feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA
development time and resources should be put into this
project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA
should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because
Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well,
is logical and there is no reason of any substance not
to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a
number of functions by having a number of what it
pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but
they were available to users as add ons and were shipped
with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of
installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they
use will never learn enough to know anything about add
ons. there are a number of add ons that should be
incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and
are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major
objection against making a feature an add on would be
done away with. the objection is that a lot of people
will never know about add ons and never use whatever is
being discussed. If this objection were done away with
by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running
add ons at the time of download and installation or
portable use, the whole question and argument about
whether something should be an add on could be done away
with.
----- Original Message -----
Sent:
Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject:
[nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade
function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is
whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to
get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who
can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Check out my website for NVDA
tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are
near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the
NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find
out which locations (or location) is near to you please
visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA
certified expert near you, please visit the following
link https://certification.nvaccess.org/.
The certification page contains the official list of
NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who
have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know
that there are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any
add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the
implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I
don't think it does. I'm not talking about including add on after add on
in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you
aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the
large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and
install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just
to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install
those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of
us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes
escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to
run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function
that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other
screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether
this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a
peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a
proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put
into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what
Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it
serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to
do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number
of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they
were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and
were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever
screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add
ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into
NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is
run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add
on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will
never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If
this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in
NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable
use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an
add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018
and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is
whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order
to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who
can't afford to
pay for a screen
reader.
--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird
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Re: Screen Shade/curtain?
Pranav Lal
Hi all, One way that has worked for me in the past is to hit windows key + p and then to choose an external display. The screen does turn off. You have to then do this upon every reboot. In addition, several years ago, a company called Techno-Vision in the UK made a physical device that would turn off the screen. It still works. It plugs into the display port of a laptop and is treated like a display. See http://techno-vision.co.uk and ask them if they still have the device. The problem with an app solution is that on many corporate systems, it is difficult to install because you need permission. Pranav
-----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 3:26 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain? it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed. On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi Joseeph,
Thanks for the clarification.
Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.
I agree with the rest.
If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)
Kind Regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi all,
I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.
When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....
The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.
On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.
Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).
Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.
Kind regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.
In the issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi,
VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.
Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!
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That is an arbitrary distinction.
Do you
want JAWS to drop all nonessential scripts? I don't think many people
would support dropping Winamp support in JAWS. In NVDA, what difference
does it make if this support is achieved by an add-on, a script, or in some
other way. When do you define a script as a core function. the
distinction that no add ons should be shipped and running because they are not
core functions is arbitrary. and, to be consistent, why is the links list
a core function? I consider the links list to be a harmful feature for
inexperienced users because it sounds wonderful to an inexperienced user but, if
used before a thorough understanding of navigation is achieved, hinders learning
by encouraging people to work in a completely artificial environment. I'm
not trying to start an argument about the links list. I'm pointing out
that the core function ideology isn't consistently followed even now, though it
mostly is.
its time to seriously consider the question, why
must there be a distinction between add ons and the core of NVDA? Why
shouldn't some add ons be a part of NVDA. Wouldn't developer resources be
better spent doing other things than duplicating functions available as add ons
so they may be placed in the core? Just include the add ons as part of the
product.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to
run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function
that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers
to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is
implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature
and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether
NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And
an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it
comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because
Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is
no reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number
of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were
available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set
to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader
they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there
are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that
are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on
would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will
never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If
this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA
as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use,
the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on
could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and
if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or
not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
|
|
|
Re: Screen Shade/curtain?
I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings. I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade. It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL! NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad it doesn’t. It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer. David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Gene New ZealandSent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.ioSubject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain? Hi I agree with Joseph. There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that help. if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not. then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda. Gene nz On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote: well fare enough, but I still think it should be in the core one day in nvda. if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.
On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.
On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi Joseeph,
Thanks for the clarification.
Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.
I agree with the rest.
If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)
Kind Regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi all,
I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.
When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....
The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.
On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.
Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).
Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.
Kind regards,
Didier
On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.
In the issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?
Hi,
VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.
Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!
--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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If many add ons are automatically downloaded with the screen reader, won’t that make the screan reader take up more room on the computer, leave a larger foot print, and just make the screen reader itself more complicated to use? The great thing about NVDA that I like, is that you can have a very small, snappy, even portable program, and you can add just the add ons that you need. The fact that NVDA does not have a ton of features built in, makes it so easy to install, run, and you don’t need a ton of memory and space like you need with JAWS, for example. David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Gene New ZealandSent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:25 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.ioSubject: Re: [nvda] competition Hi Gene I when i gave windows eyes a test drive was a feature i wouldive turned off. There was stuff or what ever they were called were downloaded to the screen reader weather i wanted them or not. You should not be forced to get them and pick only the ones you want. There are people on this list with none some and quite a few add ons. They should not be forced to get them but they need to be aware of them just in case they need that extra functionality.
Gene nz
On 12/18/2017 1:07 PM, Gene wrote: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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I agree, I think there should be NVDA remote bilt in to NVDA Mark. Tune in to the number one station on the web TAFN radio
http://listen.tafn.org.uk:8027/stream
Or for our catch up service on demand http://www.tafn.org.uk/on-demand or to find out more ways of listening go to http://www.tafn.org.uk/radio
part of the accessible friends network
www.tafn.org.uk
Registered UK Charity: #1108043.
From: Gene New ZealandSent: 18 December 2017 00:25 To: nvda@nvda.groups.ioSubject: Re: [nvda] competition Hi Gene I when i gave windows eyes a test drive was a feature i wouldive turned off. There was stuff or what ever they were called were downloaded to the screen reader weather i wanted them or not. You should not be forced to get them and pick only the ones you want. There are people on this list with none some and quite a few add ons. They should not be forced to get them but they need to be aware of them just in case they need that extra functionality.
Gene nz
On 12/18/2017 1:07 PM, Gene wrote: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
Hi Gene
I when i gave windows eyes a test drive was a feature i wouldive turned off.
There was stuff or what ever they were called were downloaded to the screen reader weather i wanted them or not.
You should not be forced to get them and pick only the ones you want.
There are people on this list with none some and quite a few add ons.
They should not be forced to get them but they need to be aware of them just in case they need that extra functionality.
Gene nz
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 12/18/2017 1:07 PM, Gene wrote:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not
an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes
used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set
to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when
NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection
were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at
http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers.
To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA
expert exam.
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What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the
ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be
pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns
for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui
Fontes escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with
NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start
being part of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a
specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene
escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other
screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about
whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an
add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual
screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA
development time and resources should be put into this
project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do
what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it,
but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no
reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by
having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they
were really scripts, but they were available to users as add
ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at
the time of installation. Many users of whatever
screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know
anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that
should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded
and are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a
feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is
that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never
use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done
away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as
running add ons at the time of download and installation or
portable use, the whole question and argument about whether
something should be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and
if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether
or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get
more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't
afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird
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Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA
and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part
of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a
specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other
screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about
whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an
add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual
screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA
development time and resources should be put into this project.
And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However,
when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used
to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves
users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance
not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by
having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were
really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and
were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of
installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use
will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there
are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as
addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a
feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is
that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use
whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away
with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add
ons at the time of download and installation or portable use,
the whole question and argument about whether something should
be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if
NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or
not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get
more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't
afford to
pay for a screen reader.
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