Date   

Re: Golden Cursor 2.0: Christmas snapshot, backwards incompatible file format, add-on settings, release date

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi Joseph



Thanks for that.


Gene nz



On 12/24/2017 9:22 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

That’ll be done very soon (in the next snapshot).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 12:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor 2.0: Christmas snapshot, backwards incompatible file format, add-on settings, release date

 

Hi Joseph

 

In the directions of how to use golden cursor coulod you please fix up the commands for bringing up and saving hot spots. the commands when i checked a week ago were still the wrong way around.

 

all the rest are correct if i remember right or has this been done already?  I know when i checked aweek ago they were wrong.

 

The ones that were wrong i just had to remember they were around the wrong way.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/24/2017 9:01 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Dear NVDA community,

 

First, Merry Christmas (for those of us celebrating it).

 

Few important announcements regarding Golden Cursor version 2.0:

 

  • Development snapshot: The Christmas snapshot is now available. If you want to test this snapshot, go to addons.nvda-project.org, select Golden Cursor and go to development version link. Once you install this snapshot, you CANNOT go back to version 1.4 or earlier snapshots.
  • Backwards incompatible: version 2.0 introduces a new way to store mouse hotspots. The new file format is similar in appearance to .ini files and can be opened as such. Internally, Golden Cursor will use ConfigObj to open mouse hotspot (.gc) files. Also, due to this change, .gc file location has changed, and as part of upgrading to 2.0, old file format will be converted to the new format.
  • Brand-new add-on settings dialog: after installing today’s snapshot, you’ll notice a new item named “Golden Cursor” in NVDA’s Preferences menu. The new dialog will house settings for Golden Cursor add-on. At the moment it contains a checkbox to announce new mouse coordinates as you move the mouse with the keyboard, and a numeric edit field to adjust mouse movement units. The add-on settings are also ready for configuration profiles so you can use custom mouse movement units for different applications and/or situations. This also means add-on settings you set will be remembered across NVDA runs (technical: a new section named “goldenCursor” will be added to config.conf database).
  • Custom mouse movement units: you can now adjust mouse movement units between 1 and 100 pixels. For backward compatibility, when you press Windows+NVDA+C to change movement units, you can change between previous six values (1, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 pixels). The new preferred way to change movement units is via the new add-on settings dialog.
  • Mouse coordinate announcement toggle: instead of saying “say pixel on/off” and playing a tone, NVDA will now say, “report new mouse coordinate on/off” and will no longer play a confirmation tone to align with other toggle commands in NVDA and other add-ons.
  • Future developments: one thing I would like to do before releasing 2.0 is change how you enter mouse coordinates when jumping to a hotspot. Instead of a single edit field, you’ll see two numeric fields so you can enter x and y coordinates separately. I haven’t forgotten about touchscreen plans.
  • 2.0 release date: if everything goes as planned, Golden Cursor 2.0 will hit the air around New Year’s Day or shortly after (for add-ons community, I’d like to request a review of this add-on, the usual one please).
  • For developers or the curious: add-on internals article for Golden Cursor is now available: https://github.com/nvdaaddons/devguide/wiki/gcaddoninternals

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: I'm dissappointed

Adriani Botez
 

This is not correct. NVDA is well adjustable, even much easier than jaws.



Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 23.12.2017 um 03:47 schrieb Gene <gsasner@...>:

You can't do what I could do when I used Pine with a shell account a long time ago.  I didn't need to create any frames or scripts.  All I had to do was set the screen echo of JAWS to all, open a message, and then use the jaws skip line wile reading feature, right shift, to very quickly jump to the start of the message body.  Even if NVDA reads such material when it appears on screen, you either listen to everything or nothing and use the tedious read by line screen review option.  Hardly a convenient or reasonable way to go through thirty e-mails. 
 
Like it or not, NVDA isn't user definable.  You can't label graphics and you can't create frames.  These are serious deficiencies even if many of us don't need such options.
 
And you can't set the screen echo to all and then do what I did, as I described.  This may be an important ability for some users.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi

I concur. I  firmly believe that NVDA can do most, if not all, the things more expensive programs can do. With some very rare exceptions. There are still some apps that require jfw with specific scripts to be usable, but as time goes on those apps will dwindle until there are none left. But for 99 percent of people, NVDA can work for them, either alone or in combination with narrator, which has gotten quite good. I don’t really set much store by such presentations, as the few I’ve bothered to listen to gloss over the free options as if they’re not there, are not worth mentioning or aren’t good enough. This applies to NVDA as well as open source operating systems like Linux. I have not listened to the presentation people are talking about, so I don’t want to ruffle any feathers, but as a rule I don’t listen to them. They tend to unilaterally insist that only the paid apps are worth using. Except for the NVDA podcasts. Those are great, although I don’t follow those either. I’m just a user. I use NVDA on a daily basis and have found very little that it can’t do. If it can’t navigate an app by the usual methods, tab, shift tab, arrows, then it can by either touch, if you have a touch screen or object navigation.Even when I was using Linux full time I would keep up with NVDA’s progress, and NVDA is what eventually brought me back to using windows again.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Don H <lmddh50@...>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:18:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed
 
I think that NVDA is just as good or better than any other screen
reader.  I think the issue for businesses is the fact that NVDA is open
source thus in their minds less secure.





Re: Golden Cursor 2.0: Christmas snapshot, backwards incompatible file format, add-on settings, release date

 

Hi,

That’ll be done very soon (in the next snapshot).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 12:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor 2.0: Christmas snapshot, backwards incompatible file format, add-on settings, release date

 

Hi Joseph

 

In the directions of how to use golden cursor coulod you please fix up the commands for bringing up and saving hot spots. the commands when i checked a week ago were still the wrong way around.

 

all the rest are correct if i remember right or has this been done already?  I know when i checked aweek ago they were wrong.

 

The ones that were wrong i just had to remember they were around the wrong way.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/24/2017 9:01 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Dear NVDA community,

 

First, Merry Christmas (for those of us celebrating it).

 

Few important announcements regarding Golden Cursor version 2.0:

 

  • Development snapshot: The Christmas snapshot is now available. If you want to test this snapshot, go to addons.nvda-project.org, select Golden Cursor and go to development version link. Once you install this snapshot, you CANNOT go back to version 1.4 or earlier snapshots.
  • Backwards incompatible: version 2.0 introduces a new way to store mouse hotspots. The new file format is similar in appearance to .ini files and can be opened as such. Internally, Golden Cursor will use ConfigObj to open mouse hotspot (.gc) files. Also, due to this change, .gc file location has changed, and as part of upgrading to 2.0, old file format will be converted to the new format.
  • Brand-new add-on settings dialog: after installing today’s snapshot, you’ll notice a new item named “Golden Cursor” in NVDA’s Preferences menu. The new dialog will house settings for Golden Cursor add-on. At the moment it contains a checkbox to announce new mouse coordinates as you move the mouse with the keyboard, and a numeric edit field to adjust mouse movement units. The add-on settings are also ready for configuration profiles so you can use custom mouse movement units for different applications and/or situations. This also means add-on settings you set will be remembered across NVDA runs (technical: a new section named “goldenCursor” will be added to config.conf database).
  • Custom mouse movement units: you can now adjust mouse movement units between 1 and 100 pixels. For backward compatibility, when you press Windows+NVDA+C to change movement units, you can change between previous six values (1, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 pixels). The new preferred way to change movement units is via the new add-on settings dialog.
  • Mouse coordinate announcement toggle: instead of saying “say pixel on/off” and playing a tone, NVDA will now say, “report new mouse coordinate on/off” and will no longer play a confirmation tone to align with other toggle commands in NVDA and other add-ons.
  • Future developments: one thing I would like to do before releasing 2.0 is change how you enter mouse coordinates when jumping to a hotspot. Instead of a single edit field, you’ll see two numeric fields so you can enter x and y coordinates separately. I haven’t forgotten about touchscreen plans.
  • 2.0 release date: if everything goes as planned, Golden Cursor 2.0 will hit the air around New Year’s Day or shortly after (for add-ons community, I’d like to request a review of this add-on, the usual one please).
  • For developers or the curious: add-on internals article for Golden Cursor is now available: https://github.com/nvdaaddons/devguide/wiki/gcaddoninternals

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: Golden Cursor 2.0: Christmas snapshot, backwards incompatible file format, add-on settings, release date

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi Joseph


In the directions of how to use golden cursor coulod you please fix up the commands for bringing up and saving hot spots. the commands when i checked a week ago were still the wrong way around.


all the rest are correct if i remember right or has this been done already?  I know when i checked aweek ago they were wrong.


The ones that were wrong i just had to remember they were around the wrong way.


Gene nz

 


On 12/24/2017 9:01 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Dear NVDA community,

 

First, Merry Christmas (for those of us celebrating it).

 

Few important announcements regarding Golden Cursor version 2.0:

 

  • Development snapshot: The Christmas snapshot is now available. If you want to test this snapshot, go to addons.nvda-project.org, select Golden Cursor and go to development version link. Once you install this snapshot, you CANNOT go back to version 1.4 or earlier snapshots.
  • Backwards incompatible: version 2.0 introduces a new way to store mouse hotspots. The new file format is similar in appearance to .ini files and can be opened as such. Internally, Golden Cursor will use ConfigObj to open mouse hotspot (.gc) files. Also, due to this change, .gc file location has changed, and as part of upgrading to 2.0, old file format will be converted to the new format.
  • Brand-new add-on settings dialog: after installing today’s snapshot, you’ll notice a new item named “Golden Cursor” in NVDA’s Preferences menu. The new dialog will house settings for Golden Cursor add-on. At the moment it contains a checkbox to announce new mouse coordinates as you move the mouse with the keyboard, and a numeric edit field to adjust mouse movement units. The add-on settings are also ready for configuration profiles so you can use custom mouse movement units for different applications and/or situations. This also means add-on settings you set will be remembered across NVDA runs (technical: a new section named “goldenCursor” will be added to config.conf database).
  • Custom mouse movement units: you can now adjust mouse movement units between 1 and 100 pixels. For backward compatibility, when you press Windows+NVDA+C to change movement units, you can change between previous six values (1, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 pixels). The new preferred way to change movement units is via the new add-on settings dialog.
  • Mouse coordinate announcement toggle: instead of saying “say pixel on/off” and playing a tone, NVDA will now say, “report new mouse coordinate on/off” and will no longer play a confirmation tone to align with other toggle commands in NVDA and other add-ons.
  • Future developments: one thing I would like to do before releasing 2.0 is change how you enter mouse coordinates when jumping to a hotspot. Instead of a single edit field, you’ll see two numeric fields so you can enter x and y coordinates separately. I haven’t forgotten about touchscreen plans.
  • 2.0 release date: if everything goes as planned, Golden Cursor 2.0 will hit the air around New Year’s Day or shortly after (for add-ons community, I’d like to request a review of this add-on, the usual one please).
  • For developers or the curious: add-on internals article for Golden Cursor is now available: https://github.com/nvdaaddons/devguide/wiki/gcaddoninternals

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: I'm dissappointed

Carlos
 

Hello All:

    This discussion is going in the direction of at some point NV Access handing control of NVDA to Microsoft.

    There are many issues that go into maintaining a software project.  Keeping the software up to date, being able to offer some sort of technical support mechanism for users, having a wide variety of code contributions to draw from, and of course community participation!

    That's why so many open source project fail in their first two years!  So, the time has come for NV Access to decide if they will continue going at it alone?  Or, if for the good of the project turn it over to an organization that has all the bases covered!

    Unfortunatly! A community based project can only go so far as its ability to provide all the elements needed to keep the project active and vibrant!

    Good exmaples of this are projects like LibreOffice and The Apache Foundation.

    So! The NVDA developers and the community as a whole really do need to think about the direction of the project.  And, if they are going to be able to keep it growing in its current state?

    Have a very happy and thoughtful 2018!

On 12/23/2017 11:30 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
I second that.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angela Delicata
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 11:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

This would be the greatest solution.


Il 23/12/2017 20:22, Rui Fontes ha scritto:
I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having some
kind of support center, by phone or by mail...

At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA...
by phone, Skype or mail...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well nvda does not use a traditional support line, the email list is
support for most part.

I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs run
which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech support call
centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing support but its not a
full support group.

Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not
sure how we can fix this shortfall.

Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app for
nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone and
dial support.

Here is the thing, a number of devs and a few are payed but most of
us are not.

Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support
for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and
email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is
always the best especially if the computer does not work right.




On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@cantos.us wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my
students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to adopt
NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training myself
through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started training my
student and implementing it with his school work. We have found what
works one day does not always work the next day. What has been
frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech support for NVDA on
the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting. We have
very limited hours in a school day to complete our training and work
with students with visual impairments. Their curriculum extends
beyond the core curriculum as we all know and efficiency with
support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS with my student and
it has been seemless and working well. I really want to adopt NVDA
but it has been very frustrating. We teach our students to
brainstorm and contact tech support when needed but NVDA does not
make it easy for our students to do this. Our students are the
future of NVDA as future screen readers. Thoughts?



.


---
Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
http://www.avg.com




--
Carlos Gonzalez - Los Angeles, CA. - gmjc341961@gmail.com


Re: I'm disappointed

Cristóbal
 

This thread is starting to meander.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 11:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I second that.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angela Delicata
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 11:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

This would be the greatest solution.


Il 23/12/2017 20:22, Rui Fontes ha scritto:
I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having some
kind of support center, by phone or by mail...

At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA...
by phone, Skype or mail...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well nvda does not use a traditional support line, the email list is
support for most part.

I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs run
which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech support call
centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing support but its not a
full support group.

Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not
sure how we can fix this shortfall.

Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app for
nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone and
dial support.

Here is the thing, a number of devs and a few are payed but most of
us are not.

Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support
for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and
email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is
always the best especially if the computer does not work right.




On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@cantos.us wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my
students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to adopt
NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training myself
through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started training my
student and implementing it with his school work. We have found what
works one day does not always work the next day. What has been
frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech support for NVDA on
the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting. We have
very limited hours in a school day to complete our training and work
with students with visual impairments. Their curriculum extends
beyond the core curriculum as we all know and efficiency with
support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS with my student and
it has been seemless and working well. I really want to adopt NVDA
but it has been very frustrating. We teach our students to
brainstorm and contact tech support when needed but NVDA does not
make it easy for our students to do this. Our students are the
future of NVDA as future screen readers. Thoughts?




.



---
Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
http://www.avg.com


Golden Cursor 2.0: Christmas snapshot, backwards incompatible file format, add-on settings, release date

 

Dear NVDA community,

 

First, Merry Christmas (for those of us celebrating it).

 

Few important announcements regarding Golden Cursor version 2.0:

 

  • Development snapshot: The Christmas snapshot is now available. If you want to test this snapshot, go to addons.nvda-project.org, select Golden Cursor and go to development version link. Once you install this snapshot, you CANNOT go back to version 1.4 or earlier snapshots.
  • Backwards incompatible: version 2.0 introduces a new way to store mouse hotspots. The new file format is similar in appearance to .ini files and can be opened as such. Internally, Golden Cursor will use ConfigObj to open mouse hotspot (.gc) files. Also, due to this change, .gc file location has changed, and as part of upgrading to 2.0, old file format will be converted to the new format.
  • Brand-new add-on settings dialog: after installing today’s snapshot, you’ll notice a new item named “Golden Cursor” in NVDA’s Preferences menu. The new dialog will house settings for Golden Cursor add-on. At the moment it contains a checkbox to announce new mouse coordinates as you move the mouse with the keyboard, and a numeric edit field to adjust mouse movement units. The add-on settings are also ready for configuration profiles so you can use custom mouse movement units for different applications and/or situations. This also means add-on settings you set will be remembered across NVDA runs (technical: a new section named “goldenCursor” will be added to config.conf database).
  • Custom mouse movement units: you can now adjust mouse movement units between 1 and 100 pixels. For backward compatibility, when you press Windows+NVDA+C to change movement units, you can change between previous six values (1, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 pixels). The new preferred way to change movement units is via the new add-on settings dialog.
  • Mouse coordinate announcement toggle: instead of saying “say pixel on/off” and playing a tone, NVDA will now say, “report new mouse coordinate on/off” and will no longer play a confirmation tone to align with other toggle commands in NVDA and other add-ons.
  • Future developments: one thing I would like to do before releasing 2.0 is change how you enter mouse coordinates when jumping to a hotspot. Instead of a single edit field, you’ll see two numeric fields so you can enter x and y coordinates separately. I haven’t forgotten about touchscreen plans.
  • 2.0 release date: if everything goes as planned, Golden Cursor 2.0 will hit the air around New Year’s Day or shortly after (for add-ons community, I’d like to request a review of this add-on, the usual one please).
  • For developers or the curious: add-on internals article for Golden Cursor is now available: https://github.com/nvdaaddons/devguide/wiki/gcaddoninternals

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: I'm dissappointed

Rui Fontes
 

Remember that the majority of NVDA users do not speak english, so this list is useless to them...

The way each community will organize itself iwill be different, because the community is different, because the users base is different, the size of the country is different and so on...

One thing is a community in a country like Portugal, with only 10 millions of people, and other totally different will be in India with almost 100 times more population...

Regards,

Rui Fonts
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 19:36 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

Hmmm how would one go about doing this.
Firstly you would need some way to handle this.
I guess if it was all done via skype it could be done but I certainly do not have time to sit round on a  waiting for calls on nvda.
For mail ie email we have this list for global support and the tech lists at least in new zealand do handle nvda questions and issues if they get posted there.
There is the blind organisation I am in and they have an accessibility centre of sorts that covers all support I suspose nvda to but who knows.
Its an organisation so like all of them they want you to use jaws but who knows a lot of that has changed a lot.
On 24/12/2017 8:22 a.m., Rui Fontes wrote:
I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having some kind of support center, by phone or by mail...

At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA... by phone, Skype or mail...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well nvda  does not use a traditional support line, the email list is support for most part.

I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs run which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech support call centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing support but its not a full support group.

Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not sure how we can fix this shortfall.

Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app for nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone and dial support.

Here is the thing, a number of  devs and a few are payed but most of us are not.

Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is always the best especially if the computer does not work right.




On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@cantos.us wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to adopt NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training myself through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started training my student and implementing it with his school work. We have found what works one day does not always work the next day. What has been frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech support for NVDA on the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting. We have very limited hours in a school day to complete our training and work with students with visual impairments. Their curriculum extends beyond the core curriculum as we all know and efficiency with support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS with my student and it has been seemless and working well. I really want to adopt NVDA but it has been very frustrating. We teach our students to brainstorm and contact tech support when needed but NVDA does not make it easy for our students to do this. Our students are the future of NVDA as future screen readers. Thoughts?




.


.


Sleep mode resolved

 

Hello friends,
This is to inform all that i finally got the sleep issue fixed,
I just made a new keyboard command from
Nvda shift z to nvda control a
So now, pressing nvda control a will put nvda to sleep for a specific app/software
And Thank you so much to all who helped
I figure there may be a keyboard hardware issue blocking me from executing the command,
Cheers,

This message is transmitted on 100% recycled electrons.


Homepage; 


Re: I'm dissappointed

 

Hmmm how would one go about doing this.

Firstly you would need some way to handle this.

I guess if it was all done via skype it could be done but I certainly do not have time to sit round on a  waiting for calls on nvda.

For mail ie email we have this list for global support and the tech lists at least in new zealand do handle nvda questions and issues if they get posted there.

There is the blind organisation I am in and they have an accessibility centre of sorts that covers all support I suspose nvda to but who knows.

Its an organisation so like all of them they want you to use jaws but who knows a lot of that has changed a lot.

On 24/12/2017 8:22 a.m., Rui Fontes wrote:
I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having some kind of support center, by phone or by mail...

At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA... by phone, Skype or mail...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well nvda  does not use a traditional support line, the email list is support for most part.

I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs run which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech support call centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing support but its not a full support group.

Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not sure how we can fix this shortfall.

Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app for nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone and dial support.

Here is the thing, a number of  devs and a few are payed but most of us are not.

Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is always the best especially if the computer does not work right.




On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@cantos.us wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to adopt NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training myself through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started training my student and implementing it with his school work. We have found what works one day does not always work the next day. What has been frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech support for NVDA on the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting. We have very limited hours in a school day to complete our training and work with students with visual impairments. Their curriculum extends beyond the core curriculum as we all know and efficiency with support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS with my student and it has been seemless and working well. I really want to adopt NVDA but it has been very frustrating. We teach our students to brainstorm and contact tech support when needed but NVDA does not make it easy for our students to do this. Our students are the future of NVDA as future screen readers. Thoughts?




.

.


Re: I'm dissappointed

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I second that.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angela Delicata
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 11:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

This would be the greatest solution.


Il 23/12/2017 20:22, Rui Fontes ha scritto:
I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having some
kind of support center, by phone or by mail...

At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA...
by phone, Skype or mail...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well nvda does not use a traditional support line, the email list is
support for most part.

I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs run
which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech support call
centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing support but its not a
full support group.

Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not
sure how we can fix this shortfall.

Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app for
nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone and
dial support.

Here is the thing, a number of devs and a few are payed but most of
us are not.

Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support
for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and
email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is
always the best especially if the computer does not work right.




On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@cantos.us wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my
students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to adopt
NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training myself
through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started training my
student and implementing it with his school work. We have found what
works one day does not always work the next day. What has been
frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech support for NVDA on
the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting. We have
very limited hours in a school day to complete our training and work
with students with visual impairments. Their curriculum extends
beyond the core curriculum as we all know and efficiency with
support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS with my student and
it has been seemless and working well. I really want to adopt NVDA
but it has been very frustrating. We teach our students to
brainstorm and contact tech support when needed but NVDA does not
make it easy for our students to do this. Our students are the
future of NVDA as future screen readers. Thoughts?




.



---
Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
http://www.avg.com


Re: I'm dissappointed

Angela Delicata
 

This would be the greatest solution.

Il 23/12/2017 20:22, Rui Fontes ha scritto:
I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having some kind of support center, by phone or by mail...

At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA... by phone, Skype or mail...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well nvda  does not use a traditional support line, the email list is support for most part.

I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs run which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech support call centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing support but its not a full support group.

Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not sure how we can fix this shortfall.

Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app for nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone and dial support.

Here is the thing, a number of  devs and a few are payed but most of us are not.

Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is always the best especially if the computer does not work right.




On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@cantos.us wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to adopt NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training myself through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started training my student and implementing it with his school work. We have found what works one day does not always work the next day. What has been frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech support for NVDA on the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting. We have very limited hours in a school day to complete our training and work with students with visual impairments. Their curriculum extends beyond the core curriculum as we all know and efficiency with support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS with my student and it has been seemless and working well. I really want to adopt NVDA but it has been very frustrating. We teach our students to brainstorm and contact tech support when needed but NVDA does not make it easy for our students to do this. Our students are the future of NVDA as future screen readers. Thoughts?




.


---
Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
http://www.avg.com


Re: I'm dissappointed

Rui Fontes
 

I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having some kind of support center, by phone or by mail...

At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA... by phone, Skype or mail...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

Well nvda  does not use a traditional support line, the email list is support for most part.
I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs run which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech support call centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing support but its not a full support group.
Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not sure how we can fix this shortfall.
Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app for nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone and dial support.
Here is the thing, a number of  devs and a few are payed but most of us are not.
Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is always the best especially if the computer does not work right.
On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@cantos.us wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to adopt NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training myself through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started training my student and implementing it with his school work. We have found what works one day does not always work the next day. What has been frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech support for NVDA on the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting. We have very limited hours in a school day to complete our training and work with students with visual impairments. Their curriculum extends beyond the core curriculum as we all know and efficiency with support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS with my student and it has been seemless and working well. I really want to adopt NVDA but it has been very frustrating. We teach our students to brainstorm and contact tech support when needed but NVDA does not make it easy for our students to do this. Our students are the future of NVDA as future screen readers. Thoughts?
.


Re: I'm dissappointed

 

Now before everyone gets carried away, we are the next generation.

Downside is, we are not vfo, dolphin or any of the older guys we are only a decade or so old, we are still a child, learning things, we still have a ways to go and that is good.

Dolphin stuff which I still use on and off is still good for what it is but only if you use certain things like ie, and well who knows.

Nvda is a lot better to use since you don't really need to use many commands.

The most commands I use are quit, sleep, speech and typed chars.

There are a lot to use commands wize but I need to mostly use standard windows comands only.

On 24/12/2017 7:30 a.m., Adriani Botez wrote:
Vfo is now still more present because tey worked together with mainstream developers like SAP. But NV Access will do it as well. I am sure. It is more than adviceable to do it. The cooperation between mainstream developers and screen reader developers is the future. NV Access is the best accessibility consultant because there is lot of user feedback given.

Best
Adriani
h

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 22.12.2017 um 23:47 schrieb David Moore <jesusloves1966@gmail.com>:

Hi all!
I have been using NVDA 80 percent of the time since 2015.
I can access a lot more controls on web pages, access TV Streaming web sites, use YouTube like a breeze, and a lot more.
NVDA can access the Win10 universal apps much better than the shark LOL!
I only use the Shark a few times a month to do some very specific tasks.
I want to emphasize that I cannot access a lot with the shark that I can access with NVDA. I have talked to many people about NVDA, and I have helped a few people use NVDA part of the time.
It is so hard to get people to install the add ons. So many are so stubborn and say they want to use a screen reader that has everything built in, instead of having to hunt all over the place for add ons.
I give them the web sites to find all of them, but they just go back to using the Shark, which really cannot access Edge at all yet, NVDA does much better in Google apps, like Google Docs, sheets, and forms.
NVDA works great in Edge. I can do what I need to do with Edge using NVDA. NVDA is so simple to install, it does not leave footprints all over your computer, it installs in a minute or so. The shark takes 15 minutes for me, NVDA is more stable than the later versions of the Shark, Audio ducking does not work in the Shark, NVDA keeps up much better with changes in Windows, I use many Win10 apps with NVDA, and on and on.
The word is getting out, though, because everyone I talk to who uses the Shark, says that they have heard of NVDA and know someone who uses it.
We really need to get NVDA to employers, so they can see just how great it is for work as well as at home.
NVDA really can enable someone to do their job in the work place. It is easier, because NVDA would install on their computer systems, I would think, better than the Shark. Somehow, we need to let state rehabilitation agencies, employers, the government, know just how great NVDA is.
VFO constantly goes around the country and shows off the Shark to employers, state agencies, and many professional organizations.
Somehow, we need to find out how we can have many NVDA conventions around the world where NVDA is being demonstrated to high up people and all kinds of professionals.
That is where VFO has the upper hand.
We need to get the word out about just how NVDA really could enable people to do their professional job, and not just use it at home.
Merry Christmas all, and have a special time with family and friends.
Go NVDA!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed
I dropped the shark in 2010 April. I have not looked back since. I've tried to convince my co workers at my job to use nvda but they say that the shark is better because nvda was not meant fo the work place. Um? Huh? No? I use nvda at my work to do stuff all the time. True it's an at home thing, but still.
Take care all and have a happy Friday


On Dec 22, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Gerardo Corripio <gera1027@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes I've used NVDA as my main screen reader since January2015, and it's coming along! I really like the fact that apart from having to buy Vocalizer, Eloquence o or other voices specifically made for it (it's definitely a lot more cheaper than the other screen reader, with each symthesizer costing an average USD$100 versus the nearly USD$800 and upwards of the others); NVDA updates when it has to without having to worry of the SMA, via AddOns, we CAN adapt NVDA to our usage/liking/personality.. So NVDA keep up the great work! and let's continue helping spreading the word out!


El 22/12/2017 a las 12:40 p.m., Angela Delicata escribió:

+1000! I wish I know it before: I am really happy with nvda; it is a wonderful screen reader.

If we think all they ask is a donation and they give us such a wonderful product... Isn't it fantastic?

Happy vacation to all.

best.

Angela from Italy


Il 22/12/2017 19:12, Sky Mundell ha scritto:

I totally agree with you. Lets all promote the use of this terrific product!


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hi all. FYI the Webame survey 7 results out out. It’s a mixed bag. I’m dissappoited in NVDA useage. Its at 31.9 percent and that other screen reader I won’t talk about anymore is at 46 percent. All I’ll say is this. Spread the word about NVDA. I know a lot of you have adopted the use of it over the past year now that WINEyes is dead. Also if you can send NV Access a donation.


Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10






---
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http://www.avg.com





--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird




Re: I'm dissappointed

Adriani Botez
 

It is much easier to write one for nvda than for jaws. I have the experience with a developer of a software developer who adjusted his program in finance to work with nvda. Now I can work with it perfectly and it cost only two project days to solve every thing...


Best
Adriani


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 23.12.2017 um 01:50 schrieb Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com>:

The issue is in house programs some stuff needs other readers.

Then again, nvda is itself a scripted reader written in a scripted language.

So even if you made an inhouse script you would need a python programmer and that would be it.




On 23/12/2017 12:46 p.m., David Moore wrote:
Hi Gene!
How do we educate the state rehabilitation agencies that NVDA is an option. Before my on line tutoring business, I was looking for a job. I asked my case worker about using NVDA at work. My case worker said that employers would not allow NVDA, and that they had hardly heard of NVDA, and that is not up to employment standards.
If my case worker thought that, I would assume that many agencies think that about NVDA.
Don’t we need to do presentations for the states like VFO does?
Simply, how do we get the word out there in the professional world that NVDA is a good option?
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

This discussion is really removed from reality. Do a demonstration of what? If an employer needs an employee to use a specific data base or other program that NVDA doesn't support, the demonstration will be worthless. If the job just involves using standard Microsoft programs, a demonstration might accomplish something but many employers have specific programs they will allow and they won't allow others. If you can find out in advance what programs are being used and that NVDA supports all those programs and if the employer will allow you to demonstrate, fine, but this discussion, as I said, is so removed from reality that it amounts to just emotional boosterism and that, if applied injudiciously will harm the reputation of NVDA, not help it.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: David Moore
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:49 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

You like wise, Rosemarie!
David Moore
Somehow, we have to go to employers and do a demonstration of NVDA right there. I don’t know if they would let any person do that, or do they have to be from an organization.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi, David,

I see where you're coming from. I think if more employers would give NVDA a chance, they could save a lot of money that they could be using to update things like Microsoft office. If I had a job, I'd insist on using NVDA.

Merry Christmas to you and Traci.

Rosemarie

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 1:47 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi all!
I have been using NVDA 80 percent of the time since 2015.
I can access a lot more controls on web pages, access TV Streaming web sites, use YouTube like a breeze, and a lot more.
NVDA can access the Win10 universal apps much better than the shark LOL!
I only use the Shark a few times a month to do some very specific tasks.
I want to emphasize that I cannot access a lot with the shark that I can access with NVDA. I have talked to many people about NVDA, and I have helped a few people use NVDA part of the time.
It is so hard to get people to install the add ons. So many are so stubborn and say they want to use a screen reader that has everything built in, instead of having to hunt all over the place for add ons.
I give them the web sites to find all of them, but they just go back to using the Shark, which really cannot access Edge at all yet, NVDA does much better in Google apps, like Google Docs, sheets, and forms.
NVDA works great in Edge. I can do what I need to do with Edge using NVDA. NVDA is so simple to install, it does not leave footprints all over your computer, it installs in a minute or so. The shark takes 15 minutes for me, NVDA is more stable than the later versions of the Shark, Audio ducking does not work in the Shark, NVDA keeps up much better with changes in Windows, I use many Win10 apps with NVDA, and on and on.
The word is getting out, though, because everyone I talk to who uses the Shark, says that they have heard of NVDA and know someone who uses it.
We really need to get NVDA to employers, so they can see just how great it is for work as well as at home.
NVDA really can enable someone to do their job in the work place. It is easier, because NVDA would install on their computer systems, I would think, better than the Shark. Somehow, we need to let state rehabilitation agencies, employers, the government, know just how great NVDA is.
VFO constantly goes around the country and shows off the Shark to employers, state agencies, and many professional organizations.
Somehow, we need to find out how we can have many NVDA conventions around the world where NVDA is being demonstrated to high up people and all kinds of professionals.
That is where VFO has the upper hand.
We need to get the word out about just how NVDA really could enable people to do their professional job, and not just use it at home.
Merry Christmas all, and have a special time with family and friends.
Go NVDA!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I dropped the shark in 2010 April. I have not looked back since. I've tried to convince my co workers at my job to use nvda but they say that the shark is better because nvda was not meant fo the work place. Um? Huh? No? I use nvda at my work to do stuff all the time. True it's an at home thing, but still.

Take care all and have a happy Friday

On Dec 22, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Gerardo Corripio <gera1027@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes I've used NVDA as my main screen reader since January2015, and it's coming along! I really like the fact that apart from having to buy Vocalizer, Eloquence o or other voices specifically made for it (it's definitely a lot more cheaper than the other screen reader, with each symthesizer costing an average USD$100 versus the nearly USD$800 and upwards of the others); NVDA updates when it has to without having to worry of the SMA, via AddOns, we CAN adapt NVDA to our usage/liking/personality.. So NVDA keep up the great work! and let's continue helping spreading the word out!


El 22/12/2017 a las 12:40 p.m., Angela Delicata escribió:
+1000! I wish I know it before: I am really happy with nvda; it is a wonderful screen reader.

If we think all they ask is a donation and they give us such a wonderful product... Isn't it fantastic?

Happy vacation to all.

best.

Angela from Italy


Il 22/12/2017 19:12, Sky Mundell ha scritto:
I totally agree with you. Lets all promote the use of this terrific product!


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hi all. FYI the Webame survey 7 results out out. It’s a mixed bag. I’m dissappoited in NVDA useage. Its at 31.9 percent and that other screen reader I won’t talk about anymore is at 46 percent. All I’ll say is this. Spread the word about NVDA. I know a lot of you have adopted the use of it over the past year now that WINEyes is dead. Also if you can send NV Access a donation.


Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10






---
Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
http://www.avg.com


--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird








Re: I'm dissappointed

Adriani Botez
 

It is very simple. If used correctly, you can be much more productie with nvda than with jaws.

Beyt
Adriani
v

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 23.12.2017 um 01:46 schrieb David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>:

Hi Gene!

How do we educate the state rehabilitation agencies that NVDA is an option. Before my on line tutoring business, I was looking for a job. I asked my case worker about using NVDA at work. My case worker said that employers would not allow NVDA, and that they had hardly heard of NVDA, and that is not up to employment standards.

If my case worker thought that, I would assume that many agencies think that about NVDA.

Don’t we need to do presentations for the states like VFO does?

Simply, how do we get the word out there in the professional world that NVDA is a good option?

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

 

This discussion is really removed from reality.  Do a demonstration of what?  If an employer needs an employee to use a specific data base or other program that NVDA doesn't support, the demonstration will be worthless.  If the job just involves using standard Microsoft programs, a demonstration might accomplish something but many employers have specific programs they will allow and they won't allow others.  If you can find out in advance what programs are being used and that NVDA supports all those programs and if the employer will allow you to demonstrate, fine, but this discussion, as I said, is so removed from reality that it amounts to just emotional boosterism and that, if applied injudiciously will harm the reputation of NVDA, not help it. 

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:49 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

 

You like wise, Rosemarie!

David Moore

Somehow, we have to go to employers and do a demonstration of NVDA right there. I don’t know if they would let any person do that, or do they have to be from an organization.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

 

Hi, David,

 

I see where you're coming from. I think if more employers would give NVDA a chance, they could save a lot of money that they could be using to update things like Microsoft office. If I had a job, I'd insist on using NVDA.

 

Merry Christmas to you and Traci.

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 1:47 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

 

Hi all!

I have been using NVDA 80 percent of the time since 2015.

I can access a lot more controls on web pages, access TV Streaming web sites, use YouTube like a breeze, and a lot more.

NVDA can access the Win10 universal apps much better than the shark LOL!

I only use the Shark a few times a month to do some very specific tasks.

I want to emphasize that I cannot access a lot with the shark that I can access with NVDA. I have talked to many people about NVDA, and I have helped a few people use NVDA part of the time.

It is so hard to get people to install the add ons. So many are so stubborn and say they want to use a screen reader that has everything built in, instead of having to hunt all over the place for add ons.

I give them the web sites to find all of them, but they just go back to using the Shark, which really cannot access Edge at all yet, NVDA does much better in Google apps, like Google Docs, sheets, and forms.

NVDA works great in Edge. I can do what I need to do with Edge using NVDA. NVDA is so simple to install, it does not leave footprints all over your computer, it installs in a minute or so. The shark takes 15 minutes for me, NVDA is more stable than the later versions of the Shark, Audio ducking does not work in the Shark, NVDA keeps up much better with changes in Windows, I use many Win10 apps with NVDA, and on and on.

The word is getting out, though, because everyone I talk to who uses the Shark, says that they have heard of NVDA and know someone who uses it.

We really need to get NVDA to employers, so they can see just how great it is for work as well as at home.

NVDA really can enable someone to do their job in the work place. It is easier, because NVDA would install on their computer systems, I would think, better than the Shark. Somehow, we need to let state rehabilitation agencies, employers, the government, know just how great NVDA is.

VFO constantly goes around the country and shows off the Shark to employers, state agencies, and many professional organizations.

Somehow, we need to find out how we can have many NVDA conventions around the world where NVDA is being demonstrated to high up people and all kinds of professionals.

That is where VFO has the upper hand.

We need to get the word out about just how NVDA really could enable people to do their professional job, and not just use it at home.

Merry Christmas all, and have a special time with family and friends.

Go NVDA!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

 

I dropped the shark in 2010 April. I have not looked back since. I've tried to convince my co workers  at my job to use nvda but they say that the shark is better because nvda was not meant fo the work place. Um? Huh? No? I use nvda at my work to do stuff all the time. True it's an at home thing, but still.

 

Take care all and have a happy Friday

 

On Dec 22, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Gerardo Corripio <gera1027@...> wrote:

 

Yes I've used NVDA as my main screen reader since January2015, and it's coming along! I really like the fact that apart from having to buy Vocalizer, Eloquence o or other voices specifically made for it (it's definitely a lot more cheaper than the other screen reader, with each symthesizer costing an average USD$100 versus the nearly USD$800 and upwards of the others); NVDA updates when it has to without having to worry of the SMA, via AddOns, we CAN adapt NVDA to our usage/liking/personality.. So NVDA keep up the great work! and let's continue helping spreading the word out!


El 22/12/2017 a las 12:40 p.m., Angela Delicata escribió:

+1000! I wish I know it before: I am really happy with nvda; it is a wonderful screen reader.

If we think all they ask is a donation and they give us such a wonderful product... Isn't it fantastic?

Happy vacation to all.

best.

Angela from Italy


Il 22/12/2017 19:12, Sky Mundell ha scritto:

I totally agree with you. Lets all promote the use of this terrific product!


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hi all. FYI the Webame survey 7 results out out. It’s a mixed bag. I’m dissappoited in NVDA useage. Its at 31.9 percent and that other screen reader I won’t talk about anymore is at 46 percent. All I’ll say is this. Spread the word about NVDA. I know a lot of you have adopted the use of it over the past year now that WINEyes is dead. Also if you can send NV Access a donation.


Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10






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Re: I'm dissappointed

 

Well nvda  does not use a traditional support line, the email list is support for most part.

I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs run which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech support call centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing support but its not a full support group.

Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not sure how we can fix this shortfall.

Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app for nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone and dial support.

Here is the thing, a number of  devs and a few are payed but most of us are not.

Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is always the best especially if the computer does not work right.

On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@cantos.us wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to adopt NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training myself through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started training my student and implementing it with his school work. We have found what works one day does not always work the next day. What has been frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech support for NVDA on the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting. We have very limited hours in a school day to complete our training and work with students with visual impairments. Their curriculum extends beyond the core curriculum as we all know and efficiency with support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS with my student and it has been seemless and working well. I really want to adopt NVDA but it has been very frustrating. We teach our students to brainstorm and contact tech support when needed but NVDA does not make it easy for our students to do this. Our students are the future of NVDA as future screen readers. Thoughts?


Re: A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials

Lino Morales
 

Oh BTW you all, I'll never take Webame survey again. I alrea stated what Joe Steincamp told me via Twitter yesterday and he's right and so is Joseph. Thenks for informing of the contraversy in survey 6. Never knew anythihng happened. Survey 7 was the first time I took it.


On 12/23/2017 12:25 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Dear NVDA community,

 

As I read messages on recent discussions, I realized just how much enthusiasm and concern people have over NVDA and its future. At the same time, it became clear to me that I and other developers and community elders need a day off and just listen to you all, as listening allows us to think about what others are saying and plan things accordingly.

 

But first, a humble opinion about surveys and other points:

 

First, when calls for the seventh Web AIM survey went out, I told people to not just do it to “increase” market share. I specifically told screen reader companies to not coerce users to do it, but let people take it out of their own willingness. This advice was to avoid a fiasco that happened with Web AIM 6 where AI Squared (now part of VFO) staff told Window-Eyes users to fill out the survey in mass numbers, which became a small controversy within the screen reading world, and to me, making Web AIM results no longer credible.

 

As some folks pointed out, Web AIM numbers depend on how many people fill it out and where they come from (and this is true of any surveys where word of mouth drives participation). The results also depend on demographics and other factors such as choices given, how the questions are worded, and overall objective. If one or more data points seems to be dominant, they can be either skewed or outliers, with the more extreme cases being termed “outliers” and they affect how the results are explicated (interpreted). Even skewed data, such as what I can perceive from some surveys including recent Web AIM iterations can affect statistical calculations to a point where it raises genuine questions about bias, credibility, and others (after all, success of statistics, particularly inferential statistics, depends on a representative sample or a close equivalent that allows researchers to approximate the real world, which is prone to errors if not done correctly such as misinterpretation, bad outliers, only some groups participating, not looking at things more deeply and what not).

 

One important thing to note is that Web AIM is a representative survey, thus the result in front of me could reflect reality. However, due to recent controversy, possible type I and II errors (false-positive and false-negative, respectively) and because of outliers and skewed data and participation, it does not truly reflect actual data, which is a point some folks here are trying to say and I concur with. My explication of Web AIM 7 is that, in some parts of the world, JAWS for Windows is more popular. However, given the fact that not all geographical regions are represented, I’d counter by saying that this is not a true representative sample that includes every continent, and if it did, the story would be different and will reflect reality a bit better (not a lot because there are other ways of skewing data such as filling it out on behalf of an organization, robotic fillers and so on). Coupled with the fact that Web AIM went through a major controversy recently that damaged its credibility somewhat, I would dare not trust Web AIM results again.

 

This leads to my second point: quantity versus quality. If NV Access went straight for quantity alone, they could have implemented all possible feature requests in hopes of boosting market share. The reality in front of us says otherwise: not all feature requests are here. Numerous factors contribute to this problem:

 

  • Lack of leading developers: in 2017, a long-time NVDA developer started working for another organization, and NV Access has been looking for his replacement ever since. Even if the replacement is found, it’ll take several months for him or her to become used to this community, learn about accessibility and how to interact with members, and earn our trust (it took Reef Turner a year to fully earn our trust). Folks can counter this by saying that there are countless contributors out there, but ultimately what gets into NVDA depends on pull requests and review time from NV Access.
  • Attitudes about open-source software from organizations: as some folks pointed out, there are prevailing attitudes about open-source in organizations that makes it a bit harder for NVDA to land on their computers, which allows developers to assess true needs of organizations through user feedback. Without valuable feedback from organizations (a quality one at that), we won’t see huger progress in NVDA development.
  • Outside attitudes about the NVDA community: from the inside, NVDA community is seen as a tight nit of enthusiasts who strives to make NVDA better every day. On the outside, however, we have a mixed bag of reputations, from admiration to honorable mentions to disdain. Every organization have these mixed reputations, especially more so for a community powered by technology such as Linux kernel developers, web browser vendors and web standards organizations, and even screen reader community. Not only we need to show that we are united inside, we need to showcase unity outside of this community.
  • Inside matters just as outside: public relations outside of NVDA community is important, but unity within an organization is just as important as public organizational face (I’ll address developer’s point of view below). What makes NVDA stand out is our unity despite coming from different circumstances and backgrounds.

 

Most of these point to quality, not quantity alone. In summary, quantity is important, but quality is just as important as how many people download NVDA 2017.4 between Christmas and New Year.

 

Lastly, in regards to organization internals, I’d like to address something I really wanted to say for the past few weeks: sometimes, I felt burnt out. My initial response to your enthusiasm over my audio tutorials was that I’ll ask for justifications for producing an updated version, seeing that there are countless free videos and tutorials out there. This was partly because I truly felt burnt out with academics, speech and debate competitions and what not (especially after a debate regarding a potential feature held not long ago), at one point telling myself that I’ll retire from the NVDA community sooner than later and feeling as though I carried important burdens on my shoulders. But you didn’t see that justification post; instead, I posted links to where you can download the 2018 version of my audio tutorial series. In effect, I’ve given up my Christmas holidays for this community, knowing that I needed a time to listen to you all and do something about it. All this was possible because of a simple act of listening and thinking about what the community means to me and what my work means to everyone. I’m committed to finishing Welcome to NVDA 2018 series before NVDA 2018.1 ships, with several addenda coming after that, all because of support from this community and outsiders. And I promise again: The Welcome to NVDA 2018 series was, and will remain, free for all. All I ask of you in return is donate to a cause that makes equal access to technology possible, especially during this holiday season and beyond.

 

I’m sure for many of you, my musings above are a bit hard to digest. Now you know why I don’t trust Web AIM survey results, quality is just as important as quantity, and read a confession from a community leader on his inner feelings. But there are two more things you need to know, something all of us needs to think about:

 

Community leaders won’t stay with you forever. In early 2017, I sensed that a long-time NVDA developer would leave this community for something better. Only I and others didn’t know until summer that it would be Jamie moving onto Mozilla Foundation.

 

I also felt, back in early 2017, that my active time with the NVDA community is slowly drawing to a close. I don’t know when it’ll happen, but I’ve been laying foundations for the next generation of developers and enthusiasts to take the lead. This is one of the reasons for setting up the devlearning subgroup, because I felt it is time for me and other leaders to teach NVDA internals and other concepts to the next group of community leaders and developers so they can bring NVDA to the next level and do more amazing things than I and others did (in my case, for the past five years).

 

Lastly, I sense a time when this community will face a sharp divide to a point where people will start questioning the merits of this community. I only told a select few earlier because it wasn’t right for me to disclose it early and for them to prepare a plan. The screen shade debate is, in fact, a sort of a preview of what is to come. One of the fundamental questions you will face at that time will be whether you still have your first love for NVDA, and whether you still have your original reasons for joining this community. The survival of this community at that time will depend on your ability to unite to face a difficult situation, even if that means facing possible splits. One thing you should NOT do at that time: ignoring new users and outside critics, because they are influential opinion leaders and are key stakeholders in NVDA’s future. One thing you SHOULD do though: listen to others and think critically.

 

Hope this makes sense.

Merry (early) Christmas,

Joseph



Re: A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials

Lino Morales
 

Well put young man. I for appriciate what you for the NVDA community. Really you and Derrek bust your asses off despite you two doing the school thing. In future assuming the NV Access team will do future podcasts I suggest they do a meet the code contributors series. Of course people know you well, but their some who do indeed bust their ass and put out some dang good add-ons etc. and we should meet them via interviews. Again, thanks Joseph for your hard work and to you too Derrek.


On 12/23/2017 12:25 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Dear NVDA community,

 

As I read messages on recent discussions, I realized just how much enthusiasm and concern people have over NVDA and its future. At the same time, it became clear to me that I and other developers and community elders need a day off and just listen to you all, as listening allows us to think about what others are saying and plan things accordingly.

 

But first, a humble opinion about surveys and other points:

 

First, when calls for the seventh Web AIM survey went out, I told people to not just do it to “increase” market share. I specifically told screen reader companies to not coerce users to do it, but let people take it out of their own willingness. This advice was to avoid a fiasco that happened with Web AIM 6 where AI Squared (now part of VFO) staff told Window-Eyes users to fill out the survey in mass numbers, which became a small controversy within the screen reading world, and to me, making Web AIM results no longer credible.

 

As some folks pointed out, Web AIM numbers depend on how many people fill it out and where they come from (and this is true of any surveys where word of mouth drives participation). The results also depend on demographics and other factors such as choices given, how the questions are worded, and overall objective. If one or more data points seems to be dominant, they can be either skewed or outliers, with the more extreme cases being termed “outliers” and they affect how the results are explicated (interpreted). Even skewed data, such as what I can perceive from some surveys including recent Web AIM iterations can affect statistical calculations to a point where it raises genuine questions about bias, credibility, and others (after all, success of statistics, particularly inferential statistics, depends on a representative sample or a close equivalent that allows researchers to approximate the real world, which is prone to errors if not done correctly such as misinterpretation, bad outliers, only some groups participating, not looking at things more deeply and what not).

 

One important thing to note is that Web AIM is a representative survey, thus the result in front of me could reflect reality. However, due to recent controversy, possible type I and II errors (false-positive and false-negative, respectively) and because of outliers and skewed data and participation, it does not truly reflect actual data, which is a point some folks here are trying to say and I concur with. My explication of Web AIM 7 is that, in some parts of the world, JAWS for Windows is more popular. However, given the fact that not all geographical regions are represented, I’d counter by saying that this is not a true representative sample that includes every continent, and if it did, the story would be different and will reflect reality a bit better (not a lot because there are other ways of skewing data such as filling it out on behalf of an organization, robotic fillers and so on). Coupled with the fact that Web AIM went through a major controversy recently that damaged its credibility somewhat, I would dare not trust Web AIM results again.

 

This leads to my second point: quantity versus quality. If NV Access went straight for quantity alone, they could have implemented all possible feature requests in hopes of boosting market share. The reality in front of us says otherwise: not all feature requests are here. Numerous factors contribute to this problem:

 

  • Lack of leading developers: in 2017, a long-time NVDA developer started working for another organization, and NV Access has been looking for his replacement ever since. Even if the replacement is found, it’ll take several months for him or her to become used to this community, learn about accessibility and how to interact with members, and earn our trust (it took Reef Turner a year to fully earn our trust). Folks can counter this by saying that there are countless contributors out there, but ultimately what gets into NVDA depends on pull requests and review time from NV Access.
  • Attitudes about open-source software from organizations: as some folks pointed out, there are prevailing attitudes about open-source in organizations that makes it a bit harder for NVDA to land on their computers, which allows developers to assess true needs of organizations through user feedback. Without valuable feedback from organizations (a quality one at that), we won’t see huger progress in NVDA development.
  • Outside attitudes about the NVDA community: from the inside, NVDA community is seen as a tight nit of enthusiasts who strives to make NVDA better every day. On the outside, however, we have a mixed bag of reputations, from admiration to honorable mentions to disdain. Every organization have these mixed reputations, especially more so for a community powered by technology such as Linux kernel developers, web browser vendors and web standards organizations, and even screen reader community. Not only we need to show that we are united inside, we need to showcase unity outside of this community.
  • Inside matters just as outside: public relations outside of NVDA community is important, but unity within an organization is just as important as public organizational face (I’ll address developer’s point of view below). What makes NVDA stand out is our unity despite coming from different circumstances and backgrounds.

 

Most of these point to quality, not quantity alone. In summary, quantity is important, but quality is just as important as how many people download NVDA 2017.4 between Christmas and New Year.

 

Lastly, in regards to organization internals, I’d like to address something I really wanted to say for the past few weeks: sometimes, I felt burnt out. My initial response to your enthusiasm over my audio tutorials was that I’ll ask for justifications for producing an updated version, seeing that there are countless free videos and tutorials out there. This was partly because I truly felt burnt out with academics, speech and debate competitions and what not (especially after a debate regarding a potential feature held not long ago), at one point telling myself that I’ll retire from the NVDA community sooner than later and feeling as though I carried important burdens on my shoulders. But you didn’t see that justification post; instead, I posted links to where you can download the 2018 version of my audio tutorial series. In effect, I’ve given up my Christmas holidays for this community, knowing that I needed a time to listen to you all and do something about it. All this was possible because of a simple act of listening and thinking about what the community means to me and what my work means to everyone. I’m committed to finishing Welcome to NVDA 2018 series before NVDA 2018.1 ships, with several addenda coming after that, all because of support from this community and outsiders. And I promise again: The Welcome to NVDA 2018 series was, and will remain, free for all. All I ask of you in return is donate to a cause that makes equal access to technology possible, especially during this holiday season and beyond.

 

I’m sure for many of you, my musings above are a bit hard to digest. Now you know why I don’t trust Web AIM survey results, quality is just as important as quantity, and read a confession from a community leader on his inner feelings. But there are two more things you need to know, something all of us needs to think about:

 

Community leaders won’t stay with you forever. In early 2017, I sensed that a long-time NVDA developer would leave this community for something better. Only I and others didn’t know until summer that it would be Jamie moving onto Mozilla Foundation.

 

I also felt, back in early 2017, that my active time with the NVDA community is slowly drawing to a close. I don’t know when it’ll happen, but I’ve been laying foundations for the next generation of developers and enthusiasts to take the lead. This is one of the reasons for setting up the devlearning subgroup, because I felt it is time for me and other leaders to teach NVDA internals and other concepts to the next group of community leaders and developers so they can bring NVDA to the next level and do more amazing things than I and others did (in my case, for the past five years).

 

Lastly, I sense a time when this community will face a sharp divide to a point where people will start questioning the merits of this community. I only told a select few earlier because it wasn’t right for me to disclose it early and for them to prepare a plan. The screen shade debate is, in fact, a sort of a preview of what is to come. One of the fundamental questions you will face at that time will be whether you still have your first love for NVDA, and whether you still have your original reasons for joining this community. The survival of this community at that time will depend on your ability to unite to face a difficult situation, even if that means facing possible splits. One thing you should NOT do at that time: ignoring new users and outside critics, because they are influential opinion leaders and are key stakeholders in NVDA’s future. One thing you SHOULD do though: listen to others and think critically.

 

Hope this makes sense.

Merry (early) Christmas,

Joseph



Re: I'm dissappointed

Adriani Botez
 

Hene I don‘t agree. I work with nvda in really complex environments in finance and it is much better than jaws, if used correctly.


Best
Adriani

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 22.12.2017 um 23:59 schrieb Gene <gsasner@...>:

If you oversell something, you will make it harder to convince people of its benefits in the future.  NVDA is not as capable in the workplace as JAWS.  I don't follow JAWS or NVDA in terms of workplace applications but that is my strong impression and I would say that, being unable to label graphics, being unable to create what JAWS calls frames, and not having a setting, such as JAWS has, for echo all, which I used to use constantly in the old days when I had a shell account and used Pine for e-mail, are significant drawbacks in terms of some of the kinds of access I would expect to be important in various work place settings. 
 
Before people start to make all sorts of claims, probably considerably inflated, about NVDA, the facts must be clearly known and discussed here.  If I'm wrong, that's fine, but I haven't seen anything indicating I am and a year or two ago, even one of the founders of NVDA said in a discussion, that NVDA isn't nearly as capable in the work place.  I'm not quoting him but that is what I recall the essence of his quote to be.
 
Also, regarding my argument about add ons, thanks for significantly bolstering my argument that certain important add ons should be distributed with NVDA and already on.  A lot of users are never going to know about add ons, and as demonstrated in the below message, many who do will have, and insist on retaining, completely incorrect views about them.  But completely incorrect or not, you have to take them into account when deciding whether I am right, that certain add ons should be distributed with NVDA. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi all!

I have been using NVDA 80 percent of the time since 2015.

I can access a lot more controls on web pages, access TV Streaming web sites, use YouTube like a breeze, and a lot more.

NVDA can access the Win10 universal apps much better than the shark LOL!

I only use the Shark a few times a month to do some very specific tasks.

I want to emphasize that I cannot access a lot with the shark that I can access with NVDA. I have talked to many people about NVDA, and I have helped a few people use NVDA part of the time.

It is so hard to get people to install the add ons. So many are so stubborn and say they want to use a screen reader that has everything built in, instead of having to hunt all over the place for add ons.

I give them the web sites to find all of them, but they just go back to using the Shark, which really cannot access Edge at all yet, NVDA does much better in Google apps, like Google Docs, sheets, and forms.

NVDA works great in Edge. I can do what I need to do with Edge using NVDA. NVDA is so simple to install, it does not leave footprints all over your computer, it installs in a minute or so. The shark takes 15 minutes for me, NVDA is more stable than the later versions of the Shark, Audio ducking does not work in the Shark, NVDA keeps up much better with changes in Windows, I use many Win10 apps with NVDA, and on and on.

The word is getting out, though, because everyone I talk to who uses the Shark, says that they have heard of NVDA and know someone who uses it.

We really need to get NVDA to employers, so they can see just how great it is for work as well as at home.

NVDA really can enable someone to do their job in the work place. It is easier, because NVDA would install on their computer systems, I would think, better than the Shark. Somehow, we need to let state rehabilitation agencies, employers, the government, know just how great NVDA is.

VFO constantly goes around the country and shows off the Shark to employers, state agencies, and many professional organizations.

Somehow, we need to find out how we can have many NVDA conventions around the world where NVDA is being demonstrated to high up people and all kinds of professionals.

That is where VFO has the upper hand.

We need to get the word out about just how NVDA really could enable people to do their professional job, and not just use it at home.

Merry Christmas all, and have a special time with family and friends.

Go NVDA!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

 

I dropped the shark in 2010 April. I have not looked back since. I've tried to convince my co workers  at my job to use nvda but they say that the shark is better because nvda was not meant fo the work place. Um? Huh? No? I use nvda at my work to do stuff all the time. True it's an at home thing, but still.

 

Take care all and have a happy Friday



On Dec 22, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Gerardo Corripio <gera1027@...> wrote:

 

Yes I've used NVDA as my main screen reader since January2015, and it's coming along! I really like the fact that apart from having to buy Vocalizer, Eloquence o or other voices specifically made for it (it's definitely a lot more cheaper than the other screen reader, with each symthesizer costing an average USD$100 versus the nearly USD$800 and upwards of the others); NVDA updates when it has to without having to worry of the SMA, via AddOns, we CAN adapt NVDA to our usage/liking/personality.. So NVDA keep up the great work! and let's continue helping spreading the word out!


El 22/12/2017 a las 12:40 p.m., Angela Delicata escribió:

+1000! I wish I know it before: I am really happy with nvda; it is a wonderful screen reader.

If we think all they ask is a donation and they give us such a wonderful product... Isn't it fantastic?

Happy vacation to all.

best.

Angela from Italy


Il 22/12/2017 19:12, Sky Mundell ha scritto:

I totally agree with you. Lets all promote the use of this terrific product!


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hi all. FYI the Webame survey 7 results out out. It’s a mixed bag. I’m dissappoited in NVDA useage. Its at 31.9 percent and that other screen reader I won’t talk about anymore is at 46 percent. All I’ll say is this. Spread the word about NVDA. I know a lot of you have adopted the use of it over the past year now that WINEyes is dead. Also if you can send NV Access a donation.


Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10






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