Date   

Re: Answering yes in the windows 10 games bar

Pranav Lal
 

Thanks Sarah. Will the toggle work if I am unable to answer the initial
prompt?

Pranav


Re: why in screen review I can't find the text I found in object review

Adriani Botez
 

Hello,

 

this is rather the lack on improvement for screen review and not a bug. Generally, screen review with NVDA on Windows 10 does not work very well. See also Issue #7760 on Github:

 

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/7760

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Alexandre Alves Toco
Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Dezember 2017 13:58
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] why in screen review I can't find the text I found in object review

 

Hi all.

In the logon screen or in the configuration’s screens for example, if I use the object review, nvda find many itens and read their text. But if I switch to screen review, nvda doesn’t find any thing.

I did the same tests with narrator. If I press space + capslock, it creates a kind of review mode with the screen text.

Is it a nvda’s bug?

 

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

 


Re: [nvda-addons] Automatic switch to coresponding braille output table

Adriani Botez
 

Dear André

 

I decided to include the other lists in my reply as well since this addon would impact lot of NVDA users. This addon is really wonderful and gives us a basis for the discussion which for example can be followed on github in NVDA issue #7848. Do you have a github profile?

 

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/7848

 

Additionally, there are some restrictions regarding automatic recognition of braille output table and this led me to create another issue on Github in Liblouis, Issue #489:

 

https://github.com/liblouis/liblouis/issues/489

 

 

I have tested your wonderful addon, which by the way should definitely appear on NVDA’s addons website, and came to following result with respect to multiple braille output tables:

  1. I chose german 8 dot computer braille as first output table and turkish grade 1 as second output table. The specific letters for Turkish language are automatically displayed correctly. But NVDA takes other signs (i.e. capital letter) and displays both possibilities on the braille display (8 dot computer braille and grade 1). When I put the cursor on a capital letter, the letter is being displayed as if it is a small letter. When I move the cursor to the right, the capital letter is displayed with dots 4 and 6 for grade 1 and dot 7 for 8 dot computer braille. Moreover, the Turkish output table seems to contain signs for the beginning and the end of a line of text. Those signs are being displayed as well in corresponding grade 1 braille.
  2. I chose german 8 dot computer braille and French 8 dot computer braille. The French 8 dot computer braille seems to interpret the cursor position differently, because the cursor is being displayed on one braille cell before the sign which Is being spoken. Let’s say I move the system caret on g of the word “dog”, then the cursor on the braille display is on o and not on g. The german table put the braille cursor on g.

 

Conclusion:

As of now, multilingual texts are not intuitively readable by a simple user. Braille output tables have to be adjusted in such a way that for example a 8 dot computer braille standard is being created for all languages. That means, that i.e. fullstop is dot 6 or number two is dots 1, 2, 8 in all output tables.

Alternatively, you could add an option to this addon for choosing which output table has higher priority. For example if the german 8 dot computer braille output table has high priority, then signs like capital, fullstop, exclamation mark etc. are being recognized in 8 dot computer braille. If the Turkish grade 1 braille output table has low priority, then only turkish letters are being displayed in grade 1, all other things are displayed in 8 dot computer braille.

 

So, could you please add a priority option for output tables accordingly?

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

Von: André-Abush Clause [mailto:listes@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27.
Dezember 2017 13:35
An: adriani.botez@...
Betreff: Re: [nvda-addons] Automatic switch to coresponding braille output table

 

Hello Adriani,

I'm contacting you regarding your post on NVDA-addons group.

I recently added the possibility to specify a secondary output braille table in my BrailleExtender addon. It is a first attempt. I suggest you test and tell me what you think.

In attachment, the development version of this addon.

To specify the secondary braille table, go to BrailleExtender submenu (in root of NVDA menu, then "settings" item, then reading tab.

 

Regards,

André

Le 08/12/2017 à 00:12, adriani.botez via Groups.Io a écrit :

Dear all,

If I have a text where german and russian words are combined, when i choose german output table the russian letters are shown as a combination of signs I cannot understand. On the other hand, if I switch the tables, the german letters are not being displayed correctly.

Is there a possibility to tell NVDA to automaically recognize the language and to choose the right table accordingly? Let's say I would restrict it to grade 1 or so.

The same for other languages.


Best
Adriani

 


Re: help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Brian,

The two variants I found that are clear are Max and female 5.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 11:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows

Please do not insult things that others find fine.
It may be rubbish to you but everyone has their favourite voice or synth.
That is just a personal thing.
I have always used Espeak with few problems. it is going through a rocky
patch just now but so many people I talk to in the flesh so to speak have
never ever tried any of the variants or played around with the settings to
customise it.
We do not really want another flame war on here about synths do we?
please pretty please?
Discussions of how to try to correct some of the recent changes are fine,
but just coming in and saying xxx synth is rubbish helps nobody at all, in
my view.
Oh and Happy 2018
Try not to break it before next year!

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Beasley" <pjbeasley23@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows


Espeak is rubbish.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 6:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows

To be honest, and I know all the devs will shoot me down for this, but I
have sceen no real reason that we shouldn't drop back to the last real
version of espeak by default, have espeak ng as an optional or include
both synths they have seperate directorys for data and so I see no real
reason we can't have both installed, true espeak ng's espeak.dll will
have to be espeakng.dll or something but to be honest.

The espeak ng screwups don't worry me that much but I do know for bidden
is not fir bidden.

pir cent is not purcent.

or whatever it is.

Its almost like spaces in some words are being added when they were
coded in.

At any rate, mr espeak robot is not to be understood.

Its a crappy low powered synth used for admin work and other generalness.

If I wanted my voices understood I'd use my slow good quality but
resource hungry synth I have about.

Its not a big issue but the fact the list is growing.

They have fixed most of the accent issues but even so.

I really do hope that things continue to work.




On 31/12/2017 8:51 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I had always understood that the engine in nvda is updated regularly to
take account of fixes, but recently there seem to have been a number of
nasty bugs and silly mispronunciations added during code clean up. I'm
speaking about UK English here and so have gone back to Speech Player in
Espeak add on to get to an older version of Espeak which does not have
these issues.
In my view there seems to be a focus in the team to attempt to make the
code understandable, by moving stuff about. I guess this makes sense if
they want to understand it, but its not really doing anything to fix
crashes inimogees, bad pronunciations or other strange funnies, in fact
its already broken language dictionaries and some other bits on the
latest nvda meaning that Nvda team had to make work around to help them
use the latest code.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: <coffeekingms@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 4:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows


Hi all
I maintain a repository of espeak fixes. That is, pronunciation fixes
for the US English language for words and names espeak ng mangles, for
Linux based operating systems, located at
http//GitHub.com/coffeeking/espeak-en-us. I've been wanting to for some
time port these over to windows and NVDA, as well as making them
available to anyone using the sapi5 version of espeak ng. I don't have
the coding skills to do this though and need help. I've tried to get help
on the espeak ng mailing list and no one seems interested. The biggest
issue is writing a script to compile the fixes into espeak ng. I don't
know enough coding to do this. The other big problem is that to be able
to compile the fixes, which are just text tfiles into the binary
dictionary format espeak ng needs, you have to have installed espeak ng
into whatever OS you use, I don't think you can do it with just NVDA's
built in copy. I'd love to be able to get rid of this step if at all
possible, since it would drastically increase the ease of new users being
able to use and contribute to my fixes. My goal is to eventually become
part of espeak ng's development itself by helping reece dunn with US
English, although I haven't managed it yet. My fixes are occasionally
added to espeak ng itself, but only when reece has time to comb through
them and fix any I get wrong. Is anyone interested in helping me make it
possible to use these with NVDA? I don't know where NVDA looks for espeak
ng's dictionary files, so in addition to being able to compile the files,
you have to copy them to wherever it is NVDA looks for them so it can
pick up on them. I'm not sure about the sapi 5 version of espeak ng, but
I'd like to make it possible for people to use my fixes regardless how
they use espeak ng or what they use it on, right now it's limited
strictly to Linux or unix OSes since I had help with the bash script
which compiles and copies them.
Thanks
Kendell Clark

Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook





.






Re: Using Win10's Mail App

Chris Mullins
 

Hi

After opening a message containing an attachment, you will be focused in the message part of the window.  Press shift+tab and you will move focus to the attached file, press applications key and a pop-up window opens giving you the option to open or save the attachment.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: 1 January 2018 15:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Win10's Mail App

 

Hello,

Having looked at the tutorial, I find that, while in a message, pressing the Alt key brings up the list of actions, the same as the context menu, it doesn’t bring up the ribbons. Has all this been updated? or is my Mail app messing me about?

I have only just decided to have another go at the mail app in W10, I can do most things, but I can’t save an attatchment, is this in the ribbons?

 

Comments please?

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 6:30 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Win10's Mail App

 

Hi

 

If you go to the following link off my website at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20tutorials%20for%20other%20programs.html

Then jump down by headings until you get to the windows 10 mail app section there is a tutorial which was created by David.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/30/2017 2:43 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Good Evening,

Are any instructions for using Win10's Mail app with NVDA?  Thanks and an early wish for a happy new year.

Pauline



 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: updating win 10

Chris
 

You shouldn’t have to do anything updates download and install automatically

 

You may have to restart your computer when complete but a button should appear when it is ready to be restarted

 

Use tab to find the button if need be

 

 

From: Richard Kuzma via Groups.Io
Sent: 01 January 2018 21:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] updating win 10

 

Good afternoon,

Can someone tell me how to choose an update in the list and install it.

My system has three updates in the list box but I don’t know how to select and install them .

Thanks

 

 


Re: I'm dissappointed

Sandra Pilz
 

Hi Erik,


Am 01.01.2018 um 16:42 schrieb erik burggraaf:


On December 31, 2017 8:33:02 AM "Sandra Pilz" <sandra914481@gmail.com> wrote:

"For the new job I started this year, I can only use NVDA, because JAWS
will crash when I log into the web interface I am required to use."

I had this same experience when applying to a call centre job last year.  Hopefully your employer puts something into nvda on your behalf, since it seems to be useful in these situations.  It shouldn't matter which screen reader you use to access web databases, but I and others have experienced that nvda as a baseline works while jaws does not.

They don't care which screen reader I use as long as I can get the job done. Actually, the site uses Adobe Flash, and I have to use old versions of Firefox, because it's not  accessible in current versions of Firefox or Chrome. As far as I know, it didn't work in older versions of Chrome either.


"However, I agree with Gene. JAWS is more easily configurable by the
user. You can label graphics, you can assign window classes and see if
that makes a program work more smoothly with NVDA, you can assign
application specific hotkeys. I am not so sure if the JAWS frames
feature still works so well under Windows 10. I just tried it recently
without success.
"

This is one area where I disagree.  Not that jaws has the features or that they are useful, but that they belong in NVDA.  I believe that it is the responsibility of developers to label their graphics and controls, draw and class their windows and controls properly, and build keyboard/touchscreen support for their apps properly.  This is increasingly required by law, imposed by societal change, taught as programming best practice, and demonstrably beneficial beyond the needs of disability communities. Unfortunately, it's not all there yet, but within the next three years, it will become legally and socially inacceptable to build software without regard for accessibility standards, just as you wouldn't build out with no regard for UI, performance, security, and other common standards and best practices.  I believe the development philosophy of NVDA is based on this.  A screen reader should read the screen, conveying the information already provided in accessible format, doing as little interpretation as possible.
I know this has often been said to be the NVDA philosophy, and I consider it dogmatic. I am more interested in pragmatic solutions. If I need to get something done, especially if it's for work, I think it is more important that I can make some changes such as labelling graphics myself or defining frames to speak a part of the screen. What's more, the legal situation may be as you describe in the US, but this kind of legislation doesn't exist yet and will not exist within three years in all of the countries where NVDA is used. And I guess some of these countries are developing countries where NVDA is most widely used, and it is probably harder there for people to get JAWS.

Best

Sandra


updating win 10

Richard Kuzma
 

Good afternoon,

Can someone tell me how to choose an update in the list and install it.

My system has three updates in the list box but I don’t know how to select and install them .

Thanks

 


Re: Using Win10's Mail App

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi Jim


The mail program is a app I just looked where the messages come in and i can use the context menu there and arrow through the menus.


Where are the ribbons? I am sure when i had a play with it there were none any where in it.


At present i am using windows 10 1709 creator update.


I think it was David that wrote it so he may reply unless on holidays this time of year.


Gene nz



On 1/2/2018 4:37 AM, The Gamages wrote:
Hello,
Having looked at the tutorial, I find that, while in a message, pressing the Alt key brings up the list of actions, the same as the context menu, it doesn’t bring up the ribbons. Has all this been updated? or is my Mail app messing me about?
I have only just decided to have another go at the mail app in W10, I can do most things, but I can’t save an attatchment, is this in the ribbons?
 
Comments please?
 
Best Regards, Jim.
 
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Win10's Mail App
 

Hi

 

If you go to the following link off my website at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20tutorials%20for%20other%20programs.html

Then jump down by headings until you get to the windows 10 mail app section there is a tutorial which was created by David.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Gene nz

 


On 12/30/2017 2:43 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:
Good Evening,

Are any instructions for using Win10's Mail app with NVDA?  Thanks and an early wish for a happy new year.

Pauline





--
Image NVDA certified expert
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: I'm dissappointed

mk360
 

Hi!


El 01/01/2018 a las 12:42, erik burggraaf escribió:

Hi Sandra,


On December 31, 2017 8:33:02 AM "Sandra Pilz" <sandra914481@gmail.com> wrote:

(...)

"Also, for me the question is not only can I do something with a screen
reader, but also how quickly can I do what I need to do. One example for
me is the text analysing feature of JAWS in MS Word. I think it helps a
lot when writing a document and checking the formatting. I can do this
with NVDA, too, but it takes a lot longer. The JAWS text analyser or
whatever they call it just checks the document for me and allows me to
see where unexpected formatting or characters have been found. I then
can check whether they are intended or not and make corrections. And it
is so much quicker to do it that way than to read the entire document
with NVDA reporting all attributes selectable in the document dialogue
of NVDA. And additionally, the latter method is so monotonous that there
is the risk of not catching all of the formatting problems."

I have to agree with you here.  I am starting in on a computer programming diploma, and having to build visually appealing user interfaces.  It would be fantastic to have an add-on that would do some intense format, layout, style, information presented in a way that I could quickly make sure certin things look proper  Maybe I'll take this on as we're coming into python in winter semester.  To me, this is a perfect example of the kind of thing a screen reader should do.

I agree. In my case, I work as a lawyer in a goverment institution, where I usually read and write contracts or other kind of legal documents for the institution and formating is important to enfasice parts of the documents or sometimes to track changes with other parts. Also in my magister I need many formating commands, and I created a profile on NVDA to enable all formating atributes to be spoken, but it is slow, in large documents is desperating and sometimes I start to sleep and I don't notice sime important changes. However, It is a thing that can be solved with coding, a good add-on can do it, and I think we have some people that can code it.

"What would be the legal status for NVDA extensions written by a third
party to make a specific program more accessible? If the would they be
allowed to sell them? probably not, because NVDA is free. What would be
the incentive for them to develop these extensions for rarely used
software if they can only bill the hours once?"

I am not a lawyer and I haven'tttt read the developer documentation, but I don't see why enterprise developers couldn't charge for add-ons.  In fact, now that I think of it, many of the voice synthesizer add-ons are paid products.
add-ons are not part of the NVDA code, and therefore do not have to be free of charge, as the NVDA license (GPL V 2) covers the program and its code. Remember a free software premise: It is free as a freedom of speech, but not necesarily as free beer. In fact, you can create an Add-on with a propietary license, but simplyfing you need to follow GPL if you use parts of the NVDA code or other GPL programs.

Regards, and happy new year,
mk.


Re: Humanware Companion

Gene
 

That's good.  it's a little cumbersome, but you may want to use that command when moving in that utility.
 
It's really not bad, though, if you use the following procedure:
Set the caps lock to be an NVDA key.  Move downin the usual way.  When you want to hear the current line without extraneous text, move down, then immediately issue the command caps lock plus up arrow. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Rick
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Humanware Companion

Hello Gene:

 

Only the line with focus is spoken when reading the current line, as expected.

 

Rick

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 1, 2018 11:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Humanware Companion

 

Try using the read current line command after moving to see if just the current item is read.  Until the problem is corrected, that may stop extraneous speech.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rick

Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 10:39 AM

Subject: [nvda] Humanware Companion

 

Hello listers:

 

Humanware makes a software package (called humanware Companion) for transferring files between a PC and a removable storage device, like a USB stick or SD card. This software makes it easy to transfer different types of files to the special directory areas for devices like the Victor Reader Stream. A tree view is presented for the files on the PC and another for the files on the removable storage device. When using the arrow keys to navigate the tree views, NVDA speaks the previous item before speaking the item moved to. For example, assume the list consists of three items, labeled book1, book2 and book3. When first entering the tree view, “book1” is spoken (along with size and whether the item is checked). If I then hit the down arrow key, NVDA speaks “book1 book2” instead of just “book2. Pressing the down arrow again and NVDA speaks “book2 book3” instead of just “book3.” The same behavior is exhibited when using page up or page down, the line where the focus is first spoken followed by the line with the new focus. This does not happen using the Window Eyes screen reader. Only the new line with focus is spoken.

 

I am running the latest released versions of Windows 10, NVDA and the Humanware Companion.

 

The latest version of the Humanware Companion can be downloaded at:

 

http://support.humanware.com/en-usa/support/humanware_companion

 

I will also send this information to Humanware.

 

Rick


Re: Humanware Companion

Rick
 

Hello Gene:

 

Only the line with focus is spoken when reading the current line, as expected.

 

Rick

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 1, 2018 11:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Humanware Companion

 

Try using the read current line command after moving to see if just the current item is read.  Until the problem is corrected, that may stop extraneous speech.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rick

Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 10:39 AM

Subject: [nvda] Humanware Companion

 

Hello listers:

 

Humanware makes a software package (called humanware Companion) for transferring files between a PC and a removable storage device, like a USB stick or SD card. This software makes it easy to transfer different types of files to the special directory areas for devices like the Victor Reader Stream. A tree view is presented for the files on the PC and another for the files on the removable storage device. When using the arrow keys to navigate the tree views, NVDA speaks the previous item before speaking the item moved to. For example, assume the list consists of three items, labeled book1, book2 and book3. When first entering the tree view, “book1” is spoken (along with size and whether the item is checked). If I then hit the down arrow key, NVDA speaks “book1 book2” instead of just “book2. Pressing the down arrow again and NVDA speaks “book2 book3” instead of just “book3.” The same behavior is exhibited when using page up or page down, the line where the focus is first spoken followed by the line with the new focus. This does not happen using the Window Eyes screen reader. Only the new line with focus is spoken.

 

I am running the latest released versions of Windows 10, NVDA and the Humanware Companion.

 

The latest version of the Humanware Companion can be downloaded at:

 

http://support.humanware.com/en-usa/support/humanware_companion

 

I will also send this information to Humanware.

 

Rick


Re: Humanware Companion

Gene
 

Try using the read current line command after moving to see if just the current item is read.  Until the problem is corrected, that may stop extraneous speech.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Rick
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 10:39 AM
Subject: [nvda] Humanware Companion

Hello listers:

 

Humanware makes a software package (called humanware Companion) for transferring files between a PC and a removable storage device, like a USB stick or SD card. This software makes it easy to transfer different types of files to the special directory areas for devices like the Victor Reader Stream. A tree view is presented for the files on the PC and another for the files on the removable storage device. When using the arrow keys to navigate the tree views, NVDA speaks the previous item before speaking the item moved to. For example, assume the list consists of three items, labeled book1, book2 and book3. When first entering the tree view, “book1” is spoken (along with size and whether the item is checked). If I then hit the down arrow key, NVDA speaks “book1 book2” instead of just “book2. Pressing the down arrow again and NVDA speaks “book2 book3” instead of just “book3.” The same behavior is exhibited when using page up or page down, the line where the focus is first spoken followed by the line with the new focus. This does not happen using the Window Eyes screen reader. Only the new line with focus is spoken.

 

I am running the latest released versions of Windows 10, NVDA and the Humanware Companion.

 

The latest version of the Humanware Companion can be downloaded at:

 

http://support.humanware.com/en-usa/support/humanware_companion

 

I will also send this information to Humanware.

 

Rick


Humanware Companion

Rick
 

Hello listers:

 

Humanware makes a software package (called humanware Companion) for transferring files between a PC and a removable storage device, like a USB stick or SD card. This software makes it easy to transfer different types of files to the special directory areas for devices like the Victor Reader Stream. A tree view is presented for the files on the PC and another for the files on the removable storage device. When using the arrow keys to navigate the tree views, NVDA speaks the previous item before speaking the item moved to. For example, assume the list consists of three items, labeled book1, book2 and book3. When first entering the tree view, “book1” is spoken (along with size and whether the item is checked). If I then hit the down arrow key, NVDA speaks “book1 book2” instead of just “book2. Pressing the down arrow again and NVDA speaks “book2 book3” instead of just “book3.” The same behavior is exhibited when using page up or page down, the line where the focus is first spoken followed by the line with the new focus. This does not happen using the Window Eyes screen reader. Only the new line with focus is spoken.

 

I am running the latest released versions of Windows 10, NVDA and the Humanware Companion.

 

The latest version of the Humanware Companion can be downloaded at:

 

http://support.humanware.com/en-usa/support/humanware_companion

 

I will also send this information to Humanware.

 

Rick


Re: Using Win10's Mail App

David Griffith
 

OK I think we are looking at   2 different windows.

If I am reading an email and press the alt key it brings  up a list of actions.

If however   I am in the edit area of an email, that is  replying or composing a new mail and press the alt key then in this window the ribbons will appear.

David Griffith

 

My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

 

From: The Gamages
Sent: 01 January 2018 15:59
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Win10's Mail App

 

Hello,

Having looked at the tutorial, I find that, while in a message, pressing the Alt key brings up the list of actions, the same as the context menu, it doesn’t bring up the ribbons. Has all this been updated? or is my Mail app messing me about?

I have only just decided to have another go at the mail app in W10, I can do most things, but I can’t save an attatchment, is this in the ribbons?

 

Comments please?

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 6:30 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Win10's Mail App

 

Hi

 

If you go to the following link off my website at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20tutorials%20for%20other%20programs.html

Then jump down by headings until you get to the windows 10 mail app section there is a tutorial which was created by David.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/30/2017 2:43 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Good Evening,

Are any instructions for using Win10's Mail app with NVDA?  Thanks and an early wish for a happy new year.

Pauline



 

--
Image NVDA
        certified expert

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 


Re: Using Win10's Mail App

The Gamages
 

Hello,
Having looked at the tutorial, I find that, while in a message, pressing the Alt key brings up the list of actions, the same as the context menu, it doesn’t bring up the ribbons. Has all this been updated? or is my Mail app messing me about?
I have only just decided to have another go at the mail app in W10, I can do most things, but I can’t save an attatchment, is this in the ribbons?
 
Comments please?
 
Best Regards, Jim.
 

Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Win10's Mail App
 

Hi

 

If you go to the following link off my website at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20tutorials%20for%20other%20programs.html

Then jump down by headings until you get to the windows 10 mail app section there is a tutorial which was created by David.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Gene nz

 


On 12/30/2017 2:43 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:
Good Evening,

Are any instructions for using Win10's Mail app with NVDA?  Thanks and an early wish for a happy new year.

Pauline





--
Image NVDA
        certified expert
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: I'm dissappointed

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 


Hi Sandra,


On December 31, 2017 8:33:02 AM "Sandra Pilz" <sandra914481@...> wrote:

"For the new job I started this year, I can only use NVDA, because JAWS
will crash when I log into the web interface I am required to use."

I had this same experience when applying to a call centre job last year.  Hopefully your employer puts something into nvda on your behalf, since it seems to be useful in these situations.  It shouldn't matter which screen reader you use to access web databases, but I and others have experienced that nvda as a baseline works while jaws does not.

"However, I agree with Gene. JAWS is more easily configurable by the
user. You can label graphics, you can assign window classes and see if
that makes a program work more smoothly with NVDA, you can assign
application specific hotkeys. I am not so sure if the JAWS frames
feature still works so well under Windows 10. I just tried it recently
without success.
"

This is one area where I disagree.  Not that jaws has the features or that they are useful, but that they belong in NVDA.  I believe that it is the responsibility of developers to label their graphics and controls, draw and class their windows and controls properly, and build keyboard/touchscreen support for their apps properly.  This is increasingly required by law, imposed by societal change, taught as programming best practice, and demonstrably beneficial beyond the needs of disability communities.  Unfortunately, it's not all there yet, but within the next three years, it will become legally and socially inacceptable to build software without regard for accessibility standards, just as you wouldn't build out with no regard for UI, performance, security, and other common standards and best practices.  I believe the development philosophy of NVDA is based on this.  A screen reader should read the screen, conveying the information already provided in accessible format, doing as little interpretation as possible.  There's a school of thought on the list that says we should go to any length to bash information into shape: install and try to use every screen reader on the market for it's best task, build out features like rendering images of text into passably readable format, and so on.  I miss the days of hitting a button and getting graphics labeled myself, but in the current legal, social, and economic situation, it just makes more sense to push developers into programming best practice rather than re-invent the old, expensive, not quite totally effective, way of doing things.


"Also, for me the question is not only can I do something with a screen
reader, but also how quickly can I do what I need to do. One example for
me is the text analysing feature of JAWS in MS Word. I think it helps a
lot when writing a document and checking the formatting. I can do this
with NVDA, too, but it takes a lot longer. The JAWS text analyser or
whatever they call it just checks the document for me and allows me to
see where unexpected formatting or characters have been found. I then
can check whether they are intended or not and make corrections. And it
is so much quicker to do it that way than to read the entire document
with NVDA reporting all attributes selectable in the document dialogue
of NVDA. And additionally, the latter method is so monotonous that there
is the risk of not catching all of the formatting problems."

I have to agree with you here.  I am starting in on a computer programming diploma, and having to build visually appealing user interfaces.  It would be fantastic to have an add-on that would do some intense format, layout, style, information presented in a way that I could quickly make sure certin things look proper  Maybe I'll take this on as we're coming into python in winter semester.  To me, this is a perfect example of the kind of thing a screen reader should do.


"What would be the legal status for NVDA extensions written by a third
party to make a specific program more accessible? If the would they be
allowed to sell them? probably not, because NVDA is free. What would be
the incentive for them to develop these extensions for rarely used
software if they can only bill the hours once?"

I am not a lawyer and I haven'tttt read the developer documentation, but I don't see why enterprise developers couldn't charge for add-ons.  In fact, now that I think of it, many of the voice synthesizer add-ons are paid products. 

"I'm just

wondering if this could be
another reason why JAWS is chosen for the workplace more often than NVDA.

"

No, I think it has more to do with politics and the old paradigm than anything else.  When I was testing accessibility for that call centre job last year, I was told that the company had python programmers in house.  They seemed to be willing to script their own bolt-ons in house.  I'm guessing this represented a huge cost savings, as I've heard quotes for jaws scripting from $150 per hour up to $150 per line of code.

Now suppose that this call centre approached an old paradigm so called access technology specialist company and asked for consulting on how to accebilitize their IT infrestructure.  What would the specialist say?  "install NVDA for free and pay us $150 per hour to write python"?  or, "install a floating licence of jaws for five grand, then pay us $150 per line for proprietary scripts.  Then buy future proofing to keep your at and it's scripts up-to-date"  I think the second is more likely.  The first is more stable, more long term sustainable, less proprietary, and cheeper, but the second is in line with the self-interest of the AT consultant.

"I think thanks to object navigation, NVDA could have a superior feature
to JAWS' being able to read frames. It would be cool if we were able to
specify a screen object, and then tell NVDA what we want it to do with
the object: read it whenever content changes, leftclick or rightclick it
and probably more. Frames in JAWS only worked if screen resolution
didn't change. If the actions were tied to an object and not a frame
thus not dependent on its dimensions on the screen, the configuration
could work for different people with different screen resolutions.
"

Right again, although this might already be possible.  If not, it should end up in an add-on one of these days.  But again, for the vast majority of things, we expect the developer to develop and the screen reader to read the screen.  Reading specific sections of busy screens at a touch would be super handy, but if your developer did their keyboard support properly, there would be few if any instances of requiring some one to access features exclusively with a mouse.


Best

Sandra




Am 23.12.2017 um 23:52 schrieb Gene:
> You can't label graphics, you can't create frames and there is no
> adjustment of the screen echo.  There is also no way to skip baqck and
> forward by line when the screen echo is set to all or when using read
> to end and have speech continue.  If these abilities were present, as
> far as I know, that would make NVDA as user configurable as JAWS and
> Window-eyes.  These are important lacks in NVDA.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Adriani Botez <mailto:adriani.botez@...>
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 23, 2017 2:34 PM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed
>
> This is not correct. NVDA is well adjustable, even much easier than jaws.
>
>
>
> Von meinem iPhone gesendet
>
> Am 23.12.2017 um 03:47 schrieb Gene <gsasner@...
> <mailto:gsasner@...>>:
>
>> You can't do what I could do when I used Pine with a shell account a
>> long time ago.  I didn't need to create any frames or scripts.  All I
>> had to do was set the screen echo of JAWS to all, open a message, and
>> then use the jaws skip line wile reading feature, right shift, to
>> very quickly jump to the start of the message body.  Even if NVDA
>> reads such material when it appears on screen, you either listen to
>> everything or nothing and use the tedious read by line screen review
>> option.  Hardly a convenient or reasonable way to go through thirty
>> e-mails.
>> Like it or not, NVDA isn't user definable.  You can't label graphics
>> and you can't create frames.  These are serious deficiencies even if
>> many of us don't need such options.
>> And you can't set the screen echo to all and then do what I did, as I
>> described.  This may be an important ability for some users.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* coffeekingms@... <mailto:coffeekingms@...>
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2017 7:16 PM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I concur. I  firmly believe that NVDA can do most, if not all, the
>> things more expensive programs can do. With some very rare
>> exceptions. There are still some apps that require jfw with specific
>> scripts to be usable, but as time goes on those apps will dwindle
>> until there are none left. But for 99 percent of people, NVDA can
>> work for them, either alone or in combination with narrator, which
>> has gotten quite good. I don’t really set much store by such
>> presentations, as the few I’ve bothered to listen to gloss over the
>> free options as if they’re not there, are not worth mentioning or
>> aren’t good enough. This applies to NVDA as well as open source
>> operating systems like Linux. I have not listened to the presentation
>> people are talking about, so I don’t want to ruffle any feathers, but
>> as a rule I don’t listen to them. They tend to unilaterally insist
>> that only the paid apps are worth using. Except for the NVDA
>> podcasts. Those are great, although I don’t follow those either. I’m
>> just a user. I use NVDA on a daily basis and have found very little
>> that it can’t do. If it can’t navigate an app by the usual methods,
>> tab, shift tab, arrows, then it can by either touch, if you have a
>> touch screen or object navigation.Even when I was using Linux full
>> time I would keep up with NVDA’s progress, and NVDA is what
>> eventually brought me back to using windows again.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Kendell Clark
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> on behalf of Don H
>> <lmddh50@... <mailto:lmddh50@...>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2017 6:18:54 PM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed
>> I think that NVDA is just as good or better than any other screen
>> reader.  I think the issue for businesses is the fact that NVDA is open
>> source thus in their minds less secure.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


Re: Problem facing in google-chrome

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

So then, you have lost the virtual buffer then?
Ie can you use nvda/space to toggle the modes?
Br8ian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Narayan" <krishnashree1221@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem facing in google-chrome


Yes sir, i am facing in all type of web site not only in chrome. I tested with firefox also. But there also same problem.
Shree



On 1 January 2018 1:25:16 PM "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io" <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Does this only happen in specific web sites, or all over? Did it always work
before, Try to work out what has changed.
It could be an update to windows or Chrome, or the website it its site
specific.
Might be time to try a different browser. I would always keep at least two
different ones handy as increasingly you find sites have not been fully
tested of access by some browsers.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Narayan" <krishnashree1221@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 2:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem facing in google-chrome


Yes. I am using google chrome v 63.0 whith Nvda 2017.4.
Shree



On 1 January 2018 7:04:06 AM "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@gmail.com>
wrote:

Do you use the last crome and the last nvda version?

Best
Adriani


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 31.12.2017 um 23:10 schrieb Narayan <krishnashree1221@gmail.com>:

Hi group members, I am using google chrome with NVDA screen reader. but,
i am facing a problem in this. from 2-3 days some contents are not
displayed properly in google chrome.I cannot navigate paragraphs in
website using arrow keys correctly. if i navigate using tab, there only
links are displayed. I cannot access all the contents in the page using
arrow keys. please help me providing solution. thanks in advance.

Shree










Re: My Documents Opening In Windows Media Player

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Did you tell us which version of Windows it was?
I'm rather interested in what actually changed it in the first place. Didn't think I've ever had this happen, ever. its the kind of thing naughty scammers do if they get into your machine to pretend it needs fixing so you pay them money, in my experience
It should not be hard to fix, if a little tedious, remembering what opened with what.
I know Icon easily alter it by using open with rather than actually clicking to open the file. IE use the drop down context menu instead of opening the file when its highlighted. You can then navigate too a list of software on your machine and select the one you want, normally you will find it asking should it use that software to open all programs of this type, and if you say yes and ok to all things then you should eventually find all the changed ones.
I don't know how you have windows set up, but I always switch on file extensions in explorer, and do not hide any files, or allow the use of icons for common file types. It is a whole lot easier to fix if you know what the actual file types are in the first place.

A lesson learned very early on, find out as much as you can about how windows does things.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ibrahim Ajayi" <kobisko@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] My Documents Opening In Windows Media Player


Hello again:
In response to Rick's reply, I will need helpful tutorials to re-set
the connection between file types and programs in order to open my
files.
I don't know how to do it.

On 12/31/17, ely.r@comcast.net <ely.r@comcast.net> wrote:
Ibrahim
Not sure just how this has happened, but the tile associations for Word have
been reassigned to Media Player. The computer looks at the file type, the
letters that follow the file name, and uses the program that is set to open
that file type. You will need to reset that connection between file type and
program to open it. Will you need help doing that? If so, post back to the
list.
Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ibrahim
Ajayi
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 5:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] My Documents Opening In Windows Media Player

Hello:
I am having another unusual and odd problem.
But this problem has nothing to do with NVDA, although I use the
screenreader.
Actually, many of my documents are now opening in windows media player. The
documents were created by me in microsoft word, and wordpad, but now they
open in windows media player.
I am also having the same problem with some materials Emailed to me.
The attachments are in word document,, but when I attempt to open them, they
open in windows media player.
I just can't figure out what this problem is all about.
Please has anyone ever had this problem at any time? how did you resolve
it.
Hope to read your response.
Ibrahim.








Re: My Documents Opening In Windows Media Player

ely.r@...
 

The other response you received is a far easier one. I would go with it before working with mine.
Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ibrahim Ajayi
Sent: Monday, January 1, 2018 2:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] My Documents Opening In Windows Media Player

Hello again:
In response to Rick's reply, I will need helpful tutorials to re-set the connection between file types and programs in order to open my files.
I don't know how to do it.

On 12/31/17, ely.r@comcast.net <ely.r@comcast.net> wrote:
Ibrahim
Not sure just how this has happened, but the tile associations for
Word have been reassigned to Media Player. The computer looks at the
file type, the letters that follow the file name, and uses the program
that is set to open that file type. You will need to reset that
connection between file type and program to open it. Will you need
help doing that? If so, post back to the list.
Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ibrahim Ajayi
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 5:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] My Documents Opening In Windows Media Player

Hello:
I am having another unusual and odd problem.
But this problem has nothing to do with NVDA, although I use the
screenreader.
Actually, many of my documents are now opening in windows media
player. The documents were created by me in microsoft word, and
wordpad, but now they open in windows media player.
I am also having the same problem with some materials Emailed to me.
The attachments are in word document,, but when I attempt to open
them, they open in windows media player.
I just can't figure out what this problem is all about.
Please has anyone ever had this problem at any time? how did you
resolve it.
Hope to read your response.
Ibrahim.