Date   

Re: Humanware Companion

Brian's Mail list account
 

Sounds like a similar issue I had in the True call app. I seem to recall a sighted person said for a moment two files get highlighted, and its quite sluggish to scroll, even worse than explorer on a throttled back processor is.
I wonder if its the old UIA slow routine issue again?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick" <softwarethatworks@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 4:39 PM
Subject: [nvda] Humanware Companion


Hello listers:



Humanware makes a software package (called humanware Companion) for
transferring files between a PC and a removable storage device, like a USB
stick or SD card. This software makes it easy to transfer different types of
files to the special directory areas for devices like the Victor Reader
Stream. A tree view is presented for the files on the PC and another for the
files on the removable storage device. When using the arrow keys to navigate
the tree views, NVDA speaks the previous item before speaking the item moved
to. For example, assume the list consists of three items, labeled book1,
book2 and book3. When first entering the tree view, "book1" is spoken (along
with size and whether the item is checked). If I then hit the down arrow
key, NVDA speaks "book1 book2" instead of just "book2. Pressing the down
arrow again and NVDA speaks "book2 book3" instead of just "book3." The same
behavior is exhibited when using page up or page down, the line where the
focus is first spoken followed by the line with the new focus. This does not
happen using the Window Eyes screen reader. Only the new line with focus is
spoken.



I am running the latest released versions of Windows 10, NVDA and the
Humanware Companion.



The latest version of the Humanware Companion can be downloaded at:



http://support.humanware.com/en-usa/support/humanware_companion



I will also send this information to Humanware.



Rick


Re: help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows

Brian's Mail list account
 

Yes it very much seems to depend on the person. I found max a bit nasal and only like female ones for reading out documents,not navigating. I originally did Quincy for laptops, but people seem to like it for its more bassy voice. I do, but then I wrote it so...
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows


Hi, Brian,

The two variants I found that are clear are Max and female 5.

Rosemarie



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 11:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows

Please do not insult things that others find fine.
It may be rubbish to you but everyone has their favourite voice or synth.
That is just a personal thing.
I have always used Espeak with few problems. it is going through a rocky
patch just now but so many people I talk to in the flesh so to speak have
never ever tried any of the variants or played around with the settings to
customise it.
We do not really want another flame war on here about synths do we?
please pretty please?
Discussions of how to try to correct some of the recent changes are fine,
but just coming in and saying xxx synth is rubbish helps nobody at all, in
my view.
Oh and Happy 2018
Try not to break it before next year!

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Beasley" <pjbeasley23@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows


Espeak is rubbish.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 6:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows

To be honest, and I know all the devs will shoot me down for this, but I
have sceen no real reason that we shouldn't drop back to the last real
version of espeak by default, have espeak ng as an optional or include
both synths they have seperate directorys for data and so I see no real
reason we can't have both installed, true espeak ng's espeak.dll will
have to be espeakng.dll or something but to be honest.

The espeak ng screwups don't worry me that much but I do know for bidden
is not fir bidden.

pir cent is not purcent.

or whatever it is.

Its almost like spaces in some words are being added when they were
coded in.

At any rate, mr espeak robot is not to be understood.

Its a crappy low powered synth used for admin work and other generalness.

If I wanted my voices understood I'd use my slow good quality but
resource hungry synth I have about.

Its not a big issue but the fact the list is growing.

They have fixed most of the accent issues but even so.

I really do hope that things continue to work.




On 31/12/2017 8:51 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I had always understood that the engine in nvda is updated regularly to
take account of fixes, but recently there seem to have been a number of
nasty bugs and silly mispronunciations added during code clean up. I'm
speaking about UK English here and so have gone back to Speech Player in
Espeak add on to get to an older version of Espeak which does not have
these issues.
In my view there seems to be a focus in the team to attempt to make the
code understandable, by moving stuff about. I guess this makes sense if
they want to understand it, but its not really doing anything to fix
crashes inimogees, bad pronunciations or other strange funnies, in fact
its already broken language dictionaries and some other bits on the
latest nvda meaning that Nvda team had to make work around to help them
use the latest code.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: <coffeekingms@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 4:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows


Hi all
I maintain a repository of espeak fixes. That is, pronunciation fixes
for the US English language for words and names espeak ng mangles, for
Linux based operating systems, located at
http//GitHub.com/coffeeking/espeak-en-us. I've been wanting to for some
time port these over to windows and NVDA, as well as making them
available to anyone using the sapi5 version of espeak ng. I don't have
the coding skills to do this though and need help. I've tried to get help
on the espeak ng mailing list and no one seems interested. The biggest
issue is writing a script to compile the fixes into espeak ng. I don't
know enough coding to do this. The other big problem is that to be able
to compile the fixes, which are just text tfiles into the binary
dictionary format espeak ng needs, you have to have installed espeak ng
into whatever OS you use, I don't think you can do it with just NVDA's
built in copy. I'd love to be able to get rid of this step if at all
possible, since it would drastically increase the ease of new users being
able to use and contribute to my fixes. My goal is to eventually become
part of espeak ng's development itself by helping reece dunn with US
English, although I haven't managed it yet. My fixes are occasionally
added to espeak ng itself, but only when reece has time to comb through
them and fix any I get wrong. Is anyone interested in helping me make it
possible to use these with NVDA? I don't know where NVDA looks for espeak
ng's dictionary files, so in addition to being able to compile the files,
you have to copy them to wherever it is NVDA looks for them so it can
pick up on them. I'm not sure about the sapi 5 version of espeak ng, but
I'd like to make it possible for people to use my fixes regardless how
they use espeak ng or what they use it on, right now it's limited
strictly to Linux or unix OSes since I had help with the bash script
which compiles and copies them.
Thanks
Kendell Clark

Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook





.











Re: Issues with dropbox addon

Brian's Mail list account
 

Well I reported this on Dropbox36, and its now on version 40.xx. Unfortunately this is not the only problem. They seem to have changed a lot of their web site as well making it quite hard to navigate for unexplained reasons with nvda.
Maybe somebody with the knowledge might like to look at this. I have in the past found there tech help quite good, but they seem, increasingly not to understand where a blind user has issues, which is a little sad.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Fernando Apan" <ferapan@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 3:40 AM
Subject: [nvda] Issues with dropbox addon


Hi Everyone,

First of all, I hope you all are having a great year.

I'm experiensing a very extrainge problem with the firefox addon. It seems it hasn't been updated for a while. When I install it and press NVDA+alt+f I get this message: dropbox not found.

Would you please help me to figure out what could be happening?

Thanks in advance.


Fernando Apan.



Re: I'm dissappointed

Brian's Mail list account
 

While I agree in principle with your reading of the laws, sadly it seems to me, in the UK at least that the law has no teeth or indeed anyone prepared for the lengthy proceedings and high costs of taking companies to court over it.

I mean we have a law here that medical information is supplied in the format of choice made by the patient, yet its flouted on a massive scale and as there is no legal aid available for such cases they ge away with driving a coach and horses through the law and the government turn a blind eye. It seems much the same game is going on in the software world.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed





Hi Sandra,
On December 31, 2017 8:33:02 AM "Sandra Pilz" <sandra914481@...> wrote:

"For the new job I started this year, I can only use NVDA, because JAWS
will crash when I log into the web interface I am required to use."

I had this same experience when applying to a call centre job last year.
Hopefully your employer puts something into nvda on your behalf, since it
seems to be useful in these situations. It shouldn't matter which screen
reader you use to access web databases, but I and others have experienced
that nvda as a baseline works while jaws does not.


"However, I agree with Gene. JAWS is more easily configurable by the
user. You can label graphics, you can assign window classes and see if
that makes a program work more smoothly with NVDA, you can assign
application specific hotkeys. I am not so sure if the JAWS frames
feature still works so well under Windows 10. I just tried it recently
without success.
"

This is one area where I disagree. Not that jaws has the features or that
they are useful, but that they belong in NVDA. I believe that it is the
responsibility of developers to label their graphics and controls, draw and
class their windows and controls properly, and build keyboard/touchscreen
support for their apps properly. This is increasingly required by law,
imposed by societal change, taught as programming best practice, and
demonstrably beneficial beyond the needs of disability communities.
Unfortunately, it's not all there yet, but within the next three years, it
will become legally and socially inacceptable to build software without
regard for accessibility standards, just as you wouldn't build out with no
regard for UI, performance, security, and other common standards and best
practices. I believe the development philosophy of NVDA is based on this.
A screen reader should read the screen, conveying the information already
provided in accessible format, doing as little interpretation as possible.
There's a school of thought on the list that says we should go to any
length to bash information into shape: install and try to use every screen
reader on the market for it's best task, build out features like rendering
images of text into passably readable format, and so on. I miss the days
of hitting a button and getting graphics labeled myself, but in the current
legal, social, and economic situation, it just makes more sense to push
developers into programming best practice rather than re-invent the old,
expensive, not quite totally effective, way of doing things.

"Also, for me the question is not only can I do something with a screen
reader, but also how quickly can I do what I need to do. One example for
me is the text analysing feature of JAWS in MS Word. I think it helps a
lot when writing a document and checking the formatting. I can do this
with NVDA, too, but it takes a lot longer. The JAWS text analyser or
whatever they call it just checks the document for me and allows me to
see where unexpected formatting or characters have been found. I then
can check whether they are intended or not and make corrections. And it
is so much quicker to do it that way than to read the entire document
with NVDA reporting all attributes selectable in the document dialogue
of NVDA. And additionally, the latter method is so monotonous that there
is the risk of not catching all of the formatting problems."

I have to agree with you here. I am starting in on a computer programming
diploma, and having to build visually appealing user interfaces. It would
be fantastic to have an add-on that would do some intense format, layout,
style, information presented in a way that I could quickly make sure certin
things look proper. Maybe I'll take this on as we're coming into python in
winter semester. To me, this is a perfect example of the kind of thing a
screen reader should do.

"What would be the legal status for NVDA extensions written by a third
party to make a specific program more accessible? If the would they be
allowed to sell them? probably not, because NVDA is free. What would be
the incentive for them to develop these extensions for rarely used
software if they can only bill the hours once?"

I am not a lawyer and I haven'tttt read the developer documentation, but I
don't see why enterprise developers couldn't charge for add-ons. In fact,
now that I think of it, many of the voice synthesizer add-ons are paid
products.

"I'm just wondering if this could be
another reason why JAWS is chosen for the workplace more often than NVDA."

No, I think it has more to do with politics and the old paradigm than
anything else. When I was testing accessibility for that call centre job
last year, I was told that the company had python programmers in house.
They seemed to be willing to script their own bolt-ons in house. I'm
guessing this represented a huge cost savings, as I've heard quotes for
jaws scripting from $150 per hour up to $150 per line of code.

Now suppose that this call centre approached an old paradigm so called
access technology specialist company and asked for consulting on how to
accebilitize their IT infrestructure. What would the specialist say?
"install NVDA for free and pay us $150 per hour to write python"? or,
"install a floating licence of jaws for five grand, then pay us $150 per
line for proprietary scripts. Then buy future proofing to keep your at and
it's scripts up-to-date". I think the second is more likely. The first is
more stable, more long term sustainable, less proprietary, and cheeper, but
the second is in line with the self-interest of the AT consultant.


"I think thanks to object navigation, NVDA could have a superior feature
to JAWS' being able to read frames. It would be cool if we were able to
specify a screen object, and then tell NVDA what we want it to do with
the object: read it whenever content changes, leftclick or rightclick it
and probably more. Frames in JAWS only worked if screen resolution
didn't change. If the actions were tied to an object and not a frame
thus not dependent on its dimensions on the screen, the configuration
could work for different people with different screen resolutions.
"

Right again, although this might already be possible. If not, it should
end up in an add-on one of these days. But again, for the vast majority of
things, we expect the developer to develop and the screen reader to read
the screen. Reading specific sections of busy screens at a touch would be
super handy, but if your developer did their keyboard support properly,
there would be few if any instances of requiring some one to access
features exclusively with a mouse.


Best

Sandra






Am 23.12.2017 um 23:52 schrieb Gene:
You can't label graphics, you can't create frames and there is no
adjustment of the screen echo. There is also no way to skip baqck and
forward by line when the screen echo is set to all or when using read
to end and have speech continue. If these abilities were present, as
far as I know, that would make NVDA as user configurable as JAWS and
Window-eyes. These are important lacks in NVDA.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Adriani Botez <mailto:adriani.botez@...>
*Sent:* Saturday, December 23, 2017 2:34 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

This is not correct. NVDA is well adjustable, even much easier than jaws.



Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 23.12.2017 um 03:47 schrieb Gene <gsasner@...
<mailto:gsasner@...>>:

You can't do what I could do when I used Pine with a shell account a
long time ago. I didn't need to create any frames or scripts. All I
had to do was set the screen echo of JAWS to all, open a message, and
then use the jaws skip line wile reading feature, right shift, to
very quickly jump to the start of the message body. Even if NVDA
reads such material when it appears on screen, you either listen to
everything or nothing and use the tedious read by line screen review
option. Hardly a convenient or reasonable way to go through thirty
e-mails.
Like it or not, NVDA isn't user definable. You can't label graphics
and you can't create frames. These are serious deficiencies even if
many of us don't need such options.
And you can't set the screen echo to all and then do what I did, as I
described. This may be an important ability for some users.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* coffeekingms@... <mailto:coffeekingms@...>
*Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2017 7:16 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi

I concur. I firmly believe that NVDA can do most, if not all, the
things more expensive programs can do. With some very rare
exceptions. There are still some apps that require jfw with specific
scripts to be usable, but as time goes on those apps will dwindle
until there are none left. But for 99 percent of people, NVDA can
work for them, either alone or in combination with narrator, which
has gotten quite good. I don’t really set much store by such
presentations, as the few I’ve bothered to listen to gloss over the
free options as if they’re not there, are not worth mentioning or
aren’t good enough. This applies to NVDA as well as open source
operating systems like Linux. I have not listened to the presentation
people are talking about, so I don’t want to ruffle any feathers, but
as a rule I don’t listen to them. They tend to unilaterally insist
that only the paid apps are worth using. Except for the NVDA
podcasts. Those are great, although I don’t follow those either. I’m
just a user. I use NVDA on a daily basis and have found very little
that it can’t do. If it can’t navigate an app by the usual methods,
tab, shift tab, arrows, then it can by either touch, if you have a
touch screen or object navigation.Even when I was using Linux full
time I would keep up with NVDA’s progress, and NVDA is what
eventually brought me back to using windows again.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> on behalf of Don H
<lmddh50@... <mailto:lmddh50@...>>
*Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2017 6:18:54 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed
I think that NVDA is just as good or better than any other screen
reader. I think the issue for businesses is the fact that NVDA is open
source thus in their minds less secure.




Re: Using Win10's Mail App

The Gamages
 

Hello Chris and David,
 
Got both your messages and all is now clear, thanks very much.
 
Best Regards, Jim.
 

Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Win10's Mail App
 

Hi

After opening a message containing an attachment, you will be focused in the message part of the window.  Press shift+tab and you will move focus to the attached file, press applications key and a pop-up window opens giving you the option to open or save the attachment.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: 1 January 2018 15:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Win10's Mail App

 

Hello,

Having looked at the tutorial, I find that, while in a message, pressing the Alt key brings up the list of actions, the same as the context menu, it doesn’t bring up the ribbons. Has all this been updated? or is my Mail app messing me about?

I have only just decided to have another go at the mail app in W10, I can do most things, but I can’t save an attatchment, is this in the ribbons?

 

Comments please?

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 6:30 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Win10's Mail App

 

Hi

 

If you go to the following link off my website at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20tutorials%20for%20other%20programs.html

Then jump down by headings until you get to the windows 10 mail app section there is a tutorial which was created by David.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/30/2017 2:43 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Good Evening,

Are any instructions for using Win10's Mail app with NVDA?  Thanks and an early wish for a happy new year.

Pauline



 

--
Image removed by sender. Image NVDA
        certified expert

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: Accessible Postgresql GUI Client

Edhoari Setiyoso
 

Hi Jason,

I was about to reply my own thread with the same answer that you sent :)

I used adminer a while back when using linux as main workstation and completely forgot it. Thanks for your reply :)

On 01-Jan-18 7:50 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
For things like mySQL, etc., I often enough use this single PHP file web interface for database administration, and, it includes offering support for postGreSQL - if the server it's running under has support for database connections to postGreSQL - WAMP, running here on my windows 10 64 bit machine does:

https://www.adminer.org/


HTH


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2018/01/01 10:08, Edhoari Setiyoso wrote:
Hi all.

I'm looking for accessible postgresql GUI Client for my work. I tried using dbeaver. NVDA can read most but could not get result query tab read by NVDA. I also tried pgadmin but it just refused to work in my system.

So far I'm using command line tools but it's quite difficult to handle large sql code.

My system is Windows 10 x64

Any help would be appreciated.

--
Best Regards

Edhoari Setiyoso
edhoari <dot> s [at] gmail <dot> com


Issues with dropbox addon

Fernando Apan
 

Hi Everyone,

First of all, I hope you all are having a great year.

I'm experiensing a very extrainge problem with the firefox addon. It seems it hasn't been updated for a while. When I install it and press NVDA+alt+f I get this message: dropbox not found.

Would you please help me to figure out what could be happening?

Thanks in advance.


Fernando Apan.


Re: New add-on - IndentNav

derek riemer
 

We need you to put a GPL header on this file so that anyone downloading it knows it complies with GPL (This is because it's running in NVDA's GPL process).


Next, let us know when you are ready for this to go on the addons site (if you want that which I assume you do).

Other tidbits, not needing changed to pass code review:
def isEmptyLine(self, s):
Did you know about speech.isBlank?


Why is there a random pass at the end of the file?

On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 6:43 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote:
Hi guys,


I just wrote my first NVDA add-on:

https://github.com/mltony/nvda-indent-nav


It solves two problems:

1. In browsers you can jump to paragraphs with the same horizontal offset. For example, it can be useful to read first-level comments on web-pages that present a hierarchical trees of comments, like reddit. Now you can simply find the first comment and press NVDA+Alt+DownArrow to go to the next first-level comment.

2. While editing source code in many programming languages, it allows you to navigate by the indentation level. For example, you can move to previous/next lines with the same indentation level by pressing NVDA+Alt+Up or DownArrow. You can also jump to a parent line or to first child.


Please let me know if anyone finds it useful, or if you have any suggestions.


Tony










--

Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!

  • University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th year undergraduate student.
  • Accessibility enthusiast.
  • Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  • Open source enthusiast.
  • Skier.

Personal website



Re: New add-on - IndentNav

MJW <matthewjwilliams101@...>
 

Tony, a v useful add-on; good thinking, good work.

On 02/01/2018, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:
Hi,
I'm forwarding this to the add-ons community in case someone is interested
in using and/or reviewing it for inclusion in our website.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony
Malykh
Sent: Monday, January 1, 2018 5:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] New add-on - IndentNav

Hi guys,


I just wrote my first NVDA add-on:

https://github.com/mltony/nvda-indent-nav


It solves two problems:

1. In browsers you can jump to paragraphs with the same horizontal offset.
For example, it can be useful to read first-level comments on web-pages that
present a hierarchical trees of comments, like reddit.
Now you can simply find the first comment and press NVDA+Alt+DownArrow to go
to the next first-level comment.

2. While editing source code in many programming languages, it allows you to
navigate by the indentation level. For example, you can move to
previous/next lines with the same indentation level by pressing
NVDA+Alt+Up or DownArrow. You can also jump to a parent line or to first
child.


Please let me know if anyone finds it useful, or if you have any
suggestions.


Tony











Re: New add-on - IndentNav

 

Hi,
I'm forwarding this to the add-ons community in case someone is interested in using and/or reviewing it for inclusion in our website.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Monday, January 1, 2018 5:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] New add-on - IndentNav

Hi guys,


I just wrote my first NVDA add-on:

https://github.com/mltony/nvda-indent-nav


It solves two problems:

1. In browsers you can jump to paragraphs with the same horizontal offset. For example, it can be useful to read first-level comments on web-pages that present a hierarchical trees of comments, like reddit.
Now you can simply find the first comment and press NVDA+Alt+DownArrow to go to the next first-level comment.

2. While editing source code in many programming languages, it allows you to navigate by the indentation level. For example, you can move to previous/next lines with the same indentation level by pressing
NVDA+Alt+Up or DownArrow. You can also jump to a parent line or to first
child.


Please let me know if anyone finds it useful, or if you have any
suggestions.


Tony


Re: I'm dissappointed

MJW <matthewjwilliams101@...>
 

Could you perhaps offer any authority for your predictions?
I for one would be overjoyed if the requirements you cite were
enshrined in law and the average blind person didn't need the
equivalent knowledge of an IT specialist to order a can of beans
online.

On 02/01/2018, Pranav Lal <pranav.lal@...> wrote:
<snip > This is one area where I disagree. Not that jaws has the features
or
that they are useful, but that they belong in NVDA. I believe that it
is the responsibility of developers to label their graphics and
controls, draw and class their windows and controls properly, and
build keyboard/touchscreen support for their apps properly. This is
increasingly required by law, imposed by societal change, taught as
programming best practice, and demonstrably beneficial beyond the
needs of disability communities. Unfortunately, it's not all there
yet, but within the next three years, it will become legally and
socially inacceptable to build software without regard for
accessibility standards, just as you wouldn't build out with no regard
for UI, performance, security, and other common standards and best
practices. I believe the development philosophy of NVDA is based on
this. A screen reader should read the screen, conveying the
information already provided in accessible format, doing as little
interpretation as possible.
PL] Eric, I agree with Sandra. Philosophy is ok in the long run but I have
to get work done now and will take the easiest path to do that work.
Compliance is never 100%. What about all the legacy applications enterprises
run? I need a solution for reading the screen and I see no problem in that
solution giving me information in a way that is easiest for me to consume.

Pranav





New add-on - IndentNav

Tony Malykh
 

Hi guys,


I just wrote my first NVDA add-on:

https://github.com/mltony/nvda-indent-nav


It solves two problems:

1. In browsers you can jump to paragraphs with the same horizontal offset. For example, it can be useful to read first-level comments on web-pages that present a hierarchical trees of comments, like reddit. Now you can simply find the first comment and press NVDA+Alt+DownArrow to go to the next first-level comment.

2. While editing source code in many programming languages, it allows you to navigate by the indentation level. For example, you can move to previous/next lines with the same indentation level by pressing NVDA+Alt+Up or DownArrow. You can also jump to a parent line or to first child.


Please let me know if anyone finds it useful, or if you have any suggestions.


Tony


Re: I'm dissappointed

Pranav Lal
 

<snip > This is one area where I disagree. Not that jaws has the features or
that they are useful, but that they belong in NVDA. I believe that it
is the responsibility of developers to label their graphics and
controls, draw and class their windows and controls properly, and
build keyboard/touchscreen support for their apps properly. This is
increasingly required by law, imposed by societal change, taught as
programming best practice, and demonstrably beneficial beyond the
needs of disability communities. Unfortunately, it's not all there
yet, but within the next three years, it will become legally and
socially inacceptable to build software without regard for
accessibility standards, just as you wouldn't build out with no regard
for UI, performance, security, and other common standards and best
practices. I believe the development philosophy of NVDA is based on
this. A screen reader should read the screen, conveying the
information already provided in accessible format, doing as little
interpretation as possible.
PL] Eric, I agree with Sandra. Philosophy is ok in the long run but I have to get work done now and will take the easiest path to do that work. Compliance is never 100%. What about all the legacy applications enterprises run? I need a solution for reading the screen and I see no problem in that solution giving me information in a way that is easiest for me to consume.

Pranav


Re: Answering yes in the windows 10 games bar

Pranav Lal
 

Thanks Sarah. Will the toggle work if I am unable to answer the initial
prompt?

Pranav


Re: why in screen review I can't find the text I found in object review

Adriani Botez
 

Hello,

 

this is rather the lack on improvement for screen review and not a bug. Generally, screen review with NVDA on Windows 10 does not work very well. See also Issue #7760 on Github:

 

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/7760

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Alexandre Alves Toco
Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Dezember 2017 13:58
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] why in screen review I can't find the text I found in object review

 

Hi all.

In the logon screen or in the configuration’s screens for example, if I use the object review, nvda find many itens and read their text. But if I switch to screen review, nvda doesn’t find any thing.

I did the same tests with narrator. If I press space + capslock, it creates a kind of review mode with the screen text.

Is it a nvda’s bug?

 

 

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

 


Re: [nvda-addons] Automatic switch to coresponding braille output table

Adriani Botez
 

Dear André

 

I decided to include the other lists in my reply as well since this addon would impact lot of NVDA users. This addon is really wonderful and gives us a basis for the discussion which for example can be followed on github in NVDA issue #7848. Do you have a github profile?

 

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/7848

 

Additionally, there are some restrictions regarding automatic recognition of braille output table and this led me to create another issue on Github in Liblouis, Issue #489:

 

https://github.com/liblouis/liblouis/issues/489

 

 

I have tested your wonderful addon, which by the way should definitely appear on NVDA’s addons website, and came to following result with respect to multiple braille output tables:

  1. I chose german 8 dot computer braille as first output table and turkish grade 1 as second output table. The specific letters for Turkish language are automatically displayed correctly. But NVDA takes other signs (i.e. capital letter) and displays both possibilities on the braille display (8 dot computer braille and grade 1). When I put the cursor on a capital letter, the letter is being displayed as if it is a small letter. When I move the cursor to the right, the capital letter is displayed with dots 4 and 6 for grade 1 and dot 7 for 8 dot computer braille. Moreover, the Turkish output table seems to contain signs for the beginning and the end of a line of text. Those signs are being displayed as well in corresponding grade 1 braille.
  2. I chose german 8 dot computer braille and French 8 dot computer braille. The French 8 dot computer braille seems to interpret the cursor position differently, because the cursor is being displayed on one braille cell before the sign which Is being spoken. Let’s say I move the system caret on g of the word “dog”, then the cursor on the braille display is on o and not on g. The german table put the braille cursor on g.

 

Conclusion:

As of now, multilingual texts are not intuitively readable by a simple user. Braille output tables have to be adjusted in such a way that for example a 8 dot computer braille standard is being created for all languages. That means, that i.e. fullstop is dot 6 or number two is dots 1, 2, 8 in all output tables.

Alternatively, you could add an option to this addon for choosing which output table has higher priority. For example if the german 8 dot computer braille output table has high priority, then signs like capital, fullstop, exclamation mark etc. are being recognized in 8 dot computer braille. If the Turkish grade 1 braille output table has low priority, then only turkish letters are being displayed in grade 1, all other things are displayed in 8 dot computer braille.

 

So, could you please add a priority option for output tables accordingly?

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

Von: André-Abush Clause [mailto:listes@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27.
Dezember 2017 13:35
An: adriani.botez@...
Betreff: Re: [nvda-addons] Automatic switch to coresponding braille output table

 

Hello Adriani,

I'm contacting you regarding your post on NVDA-addons group.

I recently added the possibility to specify a secondary output braille table in my BrailleExtender addon. It is a first attempt. I suggest you test and tell me what you think.

In attachment, the development version of this addon.

To specify the secondary braille table, go to BrailleExtender submenu (in root of NVDA menu, then "settings" item, then reading tab.

 

Regards,

André

Le 08/12/2017 à 00:12, adriani.botez via Groups.Io a écrit :

Dear all,

If I have a text where german and russian words are combined, when i choose german output table the russian letters are shown as a combination of signs I cannot understand. On the other hand, if I switch the tables, the german letters are not being displayed correctly.

Is there a possibility to tell NVDA to automaically recognize the language and to choose the right table accordingly? Let's say I would restrict it to grade 1 or so.

The same for other languages.


Best
Adriani

 


Re: help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Brian,

The two variants I found that are clear are Max and female 5.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 11:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows

Please do not insult things that others find fine.
It may be rubbish to you but everyone has their favourite voice or synth.
That is just a personal thing.
I have always used Espeak with few problems. it is going through a rocky
patch just now but so many people I talk to in the flesh so to speak have
never ever tried any of the variants or played around with the settings to
customise it.
We do not really want another flame war on here about synths do we?
please pretty please?
Discussions of how to try to correct some of the recent changes are fine,
but just coming in and saying xxx synth is rubbish helps nobody at all, in
my view.
Oh and Happy 2018
Try not to break it before next year!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Beasley" <pjbeasley23@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows


Espeak is rubbish.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 6:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows

To be honest, and I know all the devs will shoot me down for this, but I
have sceen no real reason that we shouldn't drop back to the last real
version of espeak by default, have espeak ng as an optional or include
both synths they have seperate directorys for data and so I see no real
reason we can't have both installed, true espeak ng's espeak.dll will
have to be espeakng.dll or something but to be honest.

The espeak ng screwups don't worry me that much but I do know for bidden
is not fir bidden.

pir cent is not purcent.

or whatever it is.

Its almost like spaces in some words are being added when they were
coded in.

At any rate, mr espeak robot is not to be understood.

Its a crappy low powered synth used for admin work and other generalness.

If I wanted my voices understood I'd use my slow good quality but
resource hungry synth I have about.

Its not a big issue but the fact the list is growing.

They have fixed most of the accent issues but even so.

I really do hope that things continue to work.




On 31/12/2017 8:51 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I had always understood that the engine in nvda is updated regularly to
take account of fixes, but recently there seem to have been a number of
nasty bugs and silly mispronunciations added during code clean up. I'm
speaking about UK English here and so have gone back to Speech Player in
Espeak add on to get to an older version of Espeak which does not have
these issues.
In my view there seems to be a focus in the team to attempt to make the
code understandable, by moving stuff about. I guess this makes sense if
they want to understand it, but its not really doing anything to fix
crashes inimogees, bad pronunciations or other strange funnies, in fact
its already broken language dictionaries and some other bits on the
latest nvda meaning that Nvda team had to make work around to help them
use the latest code.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: <coffeekingms@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 4:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] help wanted in porting espeak fixes over to windows


Hi all
I maintain a repository of espeak fixes. That is, pronunciation fixes
for the US English language for words and names espeak ng mangles, for
Linux based operating systems, located at
http//GitHub.com/coffeeking/espeak-en-us. I've been wanting to for some
time port these over to windows and NVDA, as well as making them
available to anyone using the sapi5 version of espeak ng. I don't have
the coding skills to do this though and need help. I've tried to get help
on the espeak ng mailing list and no one seems interested. The biggest
issue is writing a script to compile the fixes into espeak ng. I don't
know enough coding to do this. The other big problem is that to be able
to compile the fixes, which are just text tfiles into the binary
dictionary format espeak ng needs, you have to have installed espeak ng
into whatever OS you use, I don't think you can do it with just NVDA's
built in copy. I'd love to be able to get rid of this step if at all
possible, since it would drastically increase the ease of new users being
able to use and contribute to my fixes. My goal is to eventually become
part of espeak ng's development itself by helping reece dunn with US
English, although I haven't managed it yet. My fixes are occasionally
added to espeak ng itself, but only when reece has time to comb through
them and fix any I get wrong. Is anyone interested in helping me make it
possible to use these with NVDA? I don't know where NVDA looks for espeak
ng's dictionary files, so in addition to being able to compile the files,
you have to copy them to wherever it is NVDA looks for them so it can
pick up on them. I'm not sure about the sapi 5 version of espeak ng, but
I'd like to make it possible for people to use my fixes regardless how
they use espeak ng or what they use it on, right now it's limited
strictly to Linux or unix OSes since I had help with the bash script
which compiles and copies them.
Thanks
Kendell Clark

Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook





.






Re: Using Win10's Mail App

Chris Mullins
 

Hi

After opening a message containing an attachment, you will be focused in the message part of the window.  Press shift+tab and you will move focus to the attached file, press applications key and a pop-up window opens giving you the option to open or save the attachment.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of The Gamages
Sent: 1 January 2018 15:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Win10's Mail App

 

Hello,

Having looked at the tutorial, I find that, while in a message, pressing the Alt key brings up the list of actions, the same as the context menu, it doesn’t bring up the ribbons. Has all this been updated? or is my Mail app messing me about?

I have only just decided to have another go at the mail app in W10, I can do most things, but I can’t save an attatchment, is this in the ribbons?

 

Comments please?

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 6:30 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Using Win10's Mail App

 

Hi

 

If you go to the following link off my website at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20tutorials%20for%20other%20programs.html

Then jump down by headings until you get to the windows 10 mail app section there is a tutorial which was created by David.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/30/2017 2:43 PM, Pauline Smith wrote:

Good Evening,

Are any instructions for using Win10's Mail app with NVDA?  Thanks and an early wish for a happy new year.

Pauline



 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: updating win 10

Chris
 

You shouldn’t have to do anything updates download and install automatically

 

You may have to restart your computer when complete but a button should appear when it is ready to be restarted

 

Use tab to find the button if need be

 

 

From: Richard Kuzma via Groups.Io
Sent: 01 January 2018 21:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] updating win 10

 

Good afternoon,

Can someone tell me how to choose an update in the list and install it.

My system has three updates in the list box but I don’t know how to select and install them .

Thanks

 

 


Re: I'm dissappointed

Sandra Pilz
 

Hi Erik,


Am 01.01.2018 um 16:42 schrieb erik burggraaf:


On December 31, 2017 8:33:02 AM "Sandra Pilz" <sandra914481@...> wrote:

"For the new job I started this year, I can only use NVDA, because JAWS
will crash when I log into the web interface I am required to use."

I had this same experience when applying to a call centre job last year.  Hopefully your employer puts something into nvda on your behalf, since it seems to be useful in these situations.  It shouldn't matter which screen reader you use to access web databases, but I and others have experienced that nvda as a baseline works while jaws does not.

They don't care which screen reader I use as long as I can get the job done. Actually, the site uses Adobe Flash, and I have to use old versions of Firefox, because it's not  accessible in current versions of Firefox or Chrome. As far as I know, it didn't work in older versions of Chrome either.


"However, I agree with Gene. JAWS is more easily configurable by the
user. You can label graphics, you can assign window classes and see if
that makes a program work more smoothly with NVDA, you can assign
application specific hotkeys. I am not so sure if the JAWS frames
feature still works so well under Windows 10. I just tried it recently
without success.
"

This is one area where I disagree.  Not that jaws has the features or that they are useful, but that they belong in NVDA.  I believe that it is the responsibility of developers to label their graphics and controls, draw and class their windows and controls properly, and build keyboard/touchscreen support for their apps properly.  This is increasingly required by law, imposed by societal change, taught as programming best practice, and demonstrably beneficial beyond the needs of disability communities. Unfortunately, it's not all there yet, but within the next three years, it will become legally and socially inacceptable to build software without regard for accessibility standards, just as you wouldn't build out with no regard for UI, performance, security, and other common standards and best practices.  I believe the development philosophy of NVDA is based on this.  A screen reader should read the screen, conveying the information already provided in accessible format, doing as little interpretation as possible.
I know this has often been said to be the NVDA philosophy, and I consider it dogmatic. I am more interested in pragmatic solutions. If I need to get something done, especially if it's for work, I think it is more important that I can make some changes such as labelling graphics myself or defining frames to speak a part of the screen. What's more, the legal situation may be as you describe in the US, but this kind of legislation doesn't exist yet and will not exist within three years in all of the countries where NVDA is used. And I guess some of these countries are developing countries where NVDA is most widely used, and it is probably harder there for people to get JAWS.

Best

Sandra