Date   

Re: I'm dissappointed

Mike and Jenna <schwaltze@...>
 

Wish Nunavut was going this way. We will get their at some point.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 12:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

The same for British Columbia. British Columbia should hopefully be barrier free by 2024, and who knows what could happen between now and 2024.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

It isn't that way here in Ontario.

I had difficulty getting medical information last year. My doctor refused to provide accessible format. Fortunately, his manager knew better. She tried to get me to sign off on my freedom of access but after a couple of refusals, I finally got access. If that hadn't been the case, I would have filed a discrimination complaint against the doctor, and won easily.
Filing is free and can be done by any one. Legal representation is free,; however, the legal support centre only takes cases based on chance of success. This would have been a shoe in.

I also have experience filing discrimination complaints in the states. The challenge was free and any one could file it. Legal advice is harder, but there are organizations that can help such as the NFB in the case of people who are blind.

Ontario law has the goal of making the province barrier-free by 2025. They are grossly behind schedule, but I hope more constituants will take an active roll and things will step up.

Best,

Erik


On January 2, 2018 4:11:36 AM "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
<bglists@...> wrote:

While I agree in principle with your reading of the laws, sadly it seems to me, in the UK at least that the law has no teeth or indeed anyone prepared for the lengthy proceedings and high costs of taking companies to court over it.

I mean we have a law here that medical information is supplied in the format of choice made by the patient, yet its flouted on a massive scale and as there is no legal aid available for such cases they ge away with driving a coach and horses through the law and the government turn a blind eye. It seems much the same game is going on in the software world.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed





Hi Sandra,
On December 31, 2017 8:33:02 AM "Sandra Pilz" <sandra914481@...>
wrote:

"For the new job I started this year, I can only use NVDA, because
JAWS will crash when I log into the web interface I am required to use."

I had this same experience when applying to a call centre job last year.
Hopefully your employer puts something into nvda on your behalf, since
it seems to be useful in these situations. It shouldn't matter which
screen reader you use to access web databases, but I and others have
experienced that nvda as a baseline works while jaws does not.


"However, I agree with Gene. JAWS is more easily configurable by the
user. You can label graphics, you can assign window classes and see if
that makes a program work more smoothly with NVDA, you can assign
application specific hotkeys. I am not so sure if the JAWS frames
feature still works so well under Windows 10. I just tried it recently
without success.
"

This is one area where I disagree. Not that jaws has the features or
that they are useful, but that they belong in NVDA. I believe that it
is the responsibility of developers to label their graphics and
controls, draw and class their windows and controls properly, and
build keyboard/touchscreen support for their apps properly. This is
increasingly required by law, imposed by societal change, taught as
programming best practice, and demonstrably beneficial beyond the
needs of disability communities.
Unfortunately, it's not all there yet, but within the next three
years, it will become legally and socially inacceptable to build
software without regard for accessibility standards, just as you
wouldn't build out with no regard for UI, performance, security, and
other common standards and best practices. I believe the development philosophy of NVDA is based on this.
A screen reader should read the screen, conveying the information
already provided in accessible format, doing as little interpretation as possible.
There's a school of thought on the list that says we should go to any
length to bash information into shape: install and try to use every
screen reader on the market for it's best task, build out features
like rendering images of text into passably readable format, and so
on. I miss the days of hitting a button and getting graphics labeled
myself, but in the current legal, social, and economic situation, it
just makes more sense to push developers into programming best
practice rather than re-invent the old, expensive, not quite totally
effective, way of doing things.

"Also, for me the question is not only can I do something with a
screen reader, but also how quickly can I do what I need to do. One
example for me is the text analysing feature of JAWS in MS Word. I
think it helps a lot when writing a document and checking the
formatting. I can do this with NVDA, too, but it takes a lot longer.
The JAWS text analyser or whatever they call it just checks the
document for me and allows me to see where unexpected formatting or
characters have been found. I then can check whether they are intended
or not and make corrections. And it is so much quicker to do it that
way than to read the entire document with NVDA reporting all
attributes selectable in the document dialogue of NVDA. And
additionally, the latter method is so monotonous that there is the risk of not catching all of the formatting problems."

I have to agree with you here. I am starting in on a computer
programming diploma, and having to build visually appealing user
interfaces. It would be fantastic to have an add-on that would do
some intense format, layout, style, information presented in a way
that I could quickly make sure certin things look proper. Maybe I'll
take this on as we're coming into python in winter semester. To me,
this is a perfect example of the kind of thing a screen reader should
do.

"What would be the legal status for NVDA extensions written by a third
party to make a specific program more accessible? If the would they be
allowed to sell them? probably not, because NVDA is free. What would
be the incentive for them to develop these extensions for rarely used
software if they can only bill the hours once?"

I am not a lawyer and I haven'tttt read the developer documentation,
but I don't see why enterprise developers couldn't charge for add-ons.
In fact, now that I think of it, many of the voice synthesizer add-ons
are paid products.

"I'm just wondering if this could be
another reason why JAWS is chosen for the workplace more often than NVDA."

No, I think it has more to do with politics and the old paradigm than
anything else. When I was testing accessibility for that call centre
job last year, I was told that the company had python programmers in house.
They seemed to be willing to script their own bolt-ons in house. I'm
guessing this represented a huge cost savings, as I've heard quotes
for jaws scripting from $150 per hour up to $150 per line of code.

Now suppose that this call centre approached an old paradigm so called
access technology specialist company and asked for consulting on how
to accebilitize their IT infrestructure. What would the specialist say?
"install NVDA for free and pay us $150 per hour to write python"? or,
"install a floating licence of jaws for five grand, then pay us $150
per line for proprietary scripts. Then buy future proofing to keep
your at and it's scripts up-to-date". I think the second is more
likely. The first is more stable, more long term sustainable, less
proprietary, and cheeper, but the second is in line with the
self-interest of the AT consultant.


"I think thanks to object navigation, NVDA could have a superior
feature to JAWS' being able to read frames. It would be cool if we
were able to specify a screen object, and then tell NVDA what we want
it to do with the object: read it whenever content changes, leftclick
or rightclick it and probably more. Frames in JAWS only worked if
screen resolution didn't change. If the actions were tied to an object
and not a frame thus not dependent on its dimensions on the screen,
the configuration could work for different people with different screen resolutions.
"

Right again, although this might already be possible. If not, it
should end up in an add-on one of these days. But again, for the vast
majority of things, we expect the developer to develop and the screen
reader to read the screen. Reading specific sections of busy screens
at a touch would be super handy, but if your developer did their
keyboard support properly, there would be few if any instances of
requiring some one to access features exclusively with a mouse.


Best

Sandra






Am 23.12.2017 um 23:52 schrieb Gene:
You can't label graphics, you can't create frames and there is no
adjustment of the screen echo. There is also no way to skip baqck and
forward by line when the screen echo is set to all or when using read
to end and have speech continue. If these abilities were present, as
far as I know, that would make NVDA as user configurable as JAWS and
Window-eyes. These are important lacks in NVDA.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Adriani Botez <mailto:adriani.botez@...>
*Sent:* Saturday, December 23, 2017 2:34 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

This is not correct. NVDA is well adjustable, even much easier than jaws.



Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 23.12.2017 um 03:47 schrieb Gene <gsasner@...
<mailto:gsasner@...>>:

You can't do what I could do when I used Pine with a shell account a
long time ago. I didn't need to create any frames or scripts. All I
had to do was set the screen echo of JAWS to all, open a message,
and then use the jaws skip line wile reading feature, right shift,
to very quickly jump to the start of the message body. Even if NVDA
reads such material when it appears on screen, you either listen to
everything or nothing and use the tedious read by line screen review
option. Hardly a convenient or reasonable way to go through thirty
e-mails.
Like it or not, NVDA isn't user definable. You can't label graphics
and you can't create frames. These are serious deficiencies even if
many of us don't need such options.
And you can't set the screen echo to all and then do what I did, as
I described. This may be an important ability for some users.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* coffeekingms@... <mailto:coffeekingms@...>
*Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2017 7:16 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi

I concur. I firmly believe that NVDA can do most, if not all, the
things more expensive programs can do. With some very rare
exceptions. There are still some apps that require jfw with specific
scripts to be usable, but as time goes on those apps will dwindle
until there are none left. But for 99 percent of people, NVDA can
work for them, either alone or in combination with narrator, which
has gotten quite good. I don’t really set much store by such
presentations, as the few I’ve bothered to listen to gloss over the
free options as if they’re not there, are not worth mentioning or
aren’t good enough. This applies to NVDA as well as open source
operating systems like Linux. I have not listened to the
presentation people are talking about, so I don’t want to ruffle any
feathers, but as a rule I don’t listen to them. They tend to
unilaterally insist that only the paid apps are worth using. Except
for the NVDA podcasts. Those are great, although I don’t follow
those either. I’m just a user. I use NVDA on a daily basis and have
found very little that it can’t do. If it can’t navigate an app by
the usual methods, tab, shift tab, arrows, then it can by either
touch, if you have a touch screen or object navigation.Even when I
was using Linux full time I would keep up with NVDA’s progress, and
NVDA is what eventually brought me back to using windows again.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

--------------------------------------------------------------------
----
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> on behalf of Don
H <lmddh50@... <mailto:lmddh50@...>>
*Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2017 6:18:54 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed I think that NVDA is just as
good or better than any other screen reader. I think the issue for
businesses is the fact that NVDA is open source thus in their minds
less secure.




Re: IndentNav dev, BrailleExtender stable #AddonRelease#AddonTesting

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
 

So what’s the purpose of Extended Braille add-on?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 3:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] IndentNav dev, BrailleExtender stable #AddonRelease#AddonTesting

 

Hi everyone,

 

On behalf of NVDA add-ons community, I’m delighted to welcome two new add-ons toe community add-ons list:

 

  • BraileExtender adds much needed improvements to NVDA’s braille support (stable).
  • * IndentNav is a handy add-on to navigate around documents with indented text more easily, very useful for programmers and others who needs to work with such text often (development testing).

 

Add-on entries:

 

 

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph

 


IndentNav dev, BrailleExtender stable #addonrelease #addontesting

 

Hi everyone,

 

On behalf of NVDA add-ons community, I’m delighted to welcome two new add-ons toe community add-ons list:

 

  • BraileExtender adds much needed improvements to NVDA’s braille support (stable).
  • * IndentNav is a handy add-on to navigate around documents with indented text more easily, very useful for programmers and others who needs to work with such text often (development testing).

 

Add-on entries:

 

 

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

Gene
 

I just looked at the original message.  it appears you did read the article before commenting on it.  In that case, a conspiracy theory is ruled out by the contents of the article. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 3:52 AM
Subject: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

I hope that link works, but its easy to find on that site in any case. I'm
not saying this sounds like paranoia, as I do not know enough to make such a
comment, but if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade, I'm
not so sure its that much of an issue. at any rate I guess all those out
there with AMD chips will be chortling loudly.
 If its a fault in the chip this seems that it could leave Intel open to
action to give everyone new chips!
 Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.




Re: Answering yes in the windows 10 games bar

Sarah k Alawami
 

Sure it will. I have never answered the prompt. In fact I don't use the windows g key at all. Read the help docs and short cut keys found in the settings threin.

On Jan 1, 2018, at 4:50 PM, Pranav Lal <pranav.lal@...> wrote:

Thanks Sarah. Will the toggle work if I am unable to answer the initial
prompt?

Pranav




Re: I'm dissappointed

Sky Mundell
 

The same for British Columbia. British Columbia should hopefully be barrier free by 2024, and who knows what could happen between now and 2024.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

It isn't that way here in Ontario.

I had difficulty getting medical information last year. My doctor refused to provide accessible format. Fortunately, his manager knew better. She tried to get me to sign off on my freedom of access but after a couple of refusals, I finally got access. If that hadn't been the case, I would have filed a discrimination complaint against the doctor, and won easily.
Filing is free and can be done by any one. Legal representation is free,; however, the legal support centre only takes cases based on chance of success. This would have been a shoe in.

I also have experience filing discrimination complaints in the states. The challenge was free and any one could file it. Legal advice is harder, but there are organizations that can help such as the NFB in the case of people who are blind.

Ontario law has the goal of making the province barrier-free by 2025. They are grossly behind schedule, but I hope more constituants will take an active roll and things will step up.

Best,

Erik


On January 2, 2018 4:11:36 AM "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
<bglists@...> wrote:

While I agree in principle with your reading of the laws, sadly it seems to me, in the UK at least that the law has no teeth or indeed anyone prepared for the lengthy proceedings and high costs of taking companies to court over it.

I mean we have a law here that medical information is supplied in the format of choice made by the patient, yet its flouted on a massive scale and as there is no legal aid available for such cases they ge away with driving a coach and horses through the law and the government turn a blind eye. It seems much the same game is going on in the software world.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed





Hi Sandra,
On December 31, 2017 8:33:02 AM "Sandra Pilz" <sandra914481@...>
wrote:

"For the new job I started this year, I can only use NVDA, because
JAWS will crash when I log into the web interface I am required to use."

I had this same experience when applying to a call centre job last year.
Hopefully your employer puts something into nvda on your behalf, since
it seems to be useful in these situations. It shouldn't matter which
screen reader you use to access web databases, but I and others have
experienced that nvda as a baseline works while jaws does not.


"However, I agree with Gene. JAWS is more easily configurable by the
user. You can label graphics, you can assign window classes and see if
that makes a program work more smoothly with NVDA, you can assign
application specific hotkeys. I am not so sure if the JAWS frames
feature still works so well under Windows 10. I just tried it recently
without success.
"

This is one area where I disagree. Not that jaws has the features or
that they are useful, but that they belong in NVDA. I believe that it
is the responsibility of developers to label their graphics and
controls, draw and class their windows and controls properly, and
build keyboard/touchscreen support for their apps properly. This is
increasingly required by law, imposed by societal change, taught as
programming best practice, and demonstrably beneficial beyond the
needs of disability communities.
Unfortunately, it's not all there yet, but within the next three
years, it will become legally and socially inacceptable to build
software without regard for accessibility standards, just as you
wouldn't build out with no regard for UI, performance, security, and
other common standards and best practices. I believe the development philosophy of NVDA is based on this.
A screen reader should read the screen, conveying the information
already provided in accessible format, doing as little interpretation as possible.
There's a school of thought on the list that says we should go to any
length to bash information into shape: install and try to use every
screen reader on the market for it's best task, build out features
like rendering images of text into passably readable format, and so
on. I miss the days of hitting a button and getting graphics labeled
myself, but in the current legal, social, and economic situation, it
just makes more sense to push developers into programming best
practice rather than re-invent the old, expensive, not quite totally
effective, way of doing things.

"Also, for me the question is not only can I do something with a
screen reader, but also how quickly can I do what I need to do. One
example for me is the text analysing feature of JAWS in MS Word. I
think it helps a lot when writing a document and checking the
formatting. I can do this with NVDA, too, but it takes a lot longer.
The JAWS text analyser or whatever they call it just checks the
document for me and allows me to see where unexpected formatting or
characters have been found. I then can check whether they are intended
or not and make corrections. And it is so much quicker to do it that
way than to read the entire document with NVDA reporting all
attributes selectable in the document dialogue of NVDA. And
additionally, the latter method is so monotonous that there is the risk of not catching all of the formatting problems."

I have to agree with you here. I am starting in on a computer
programming diploma, and having to build visually appealing user
interfaces. It would be fantastic to have an add-on that would do
some intense format, layout, style, information presented in a way
that I could quickly make sure certin things look proper. Maybe I'll
take this on as we're coming into python in winter semester. To me,
this is a perfect example of the kind of thing a screen reader should
do.

"What would be the legal status for NVDA extensions written by a third
party to make a specific program more accessible? If the would they be
allowed to sell them? probably not, because NVDA is free. What would
be the incentive for them to develop these extensions for rarely used
software if they can only bill the hours once?"

I am not a lawyer and I haven'tttt read the developer documentation,
but I don't see why enterprise developers couldn't charge for add-ons.
In fact, now that I think of it, many of the voice synthesizer add-ons
are paid products.

"I'm just wondering if this could be
another reason why JAWS is chosen for the workplace more often than NVDA."

No, I think it has more to do with politics and the old paradigm than
anything else. When I was testing accessibility for that call centre
job last year, I was told that the company had python programmers in house.
They seemed to be willing to script their own bolt-ons in house. I'm
guessing this represented a huge cost savings, as I've heard quotes
for jaws scripting from $150 per hour up to $150 per line of code.

Now suppose that this call centre approached an old paradigm so called
access technology specialist company and asked for consulting on how
to accebilitize their IT infrestructure. What would the specialist say?
"install NVDA for free and pay us $150 per hour to write python"? or,
"install a floating licence of jaws for five grand, then pay us $150
per line for proprietary scripts. Then buy future proofing to keep
your at and it's scripts up-to-date". I think the second is more
likely. The first is more stable, more long term sustainable, less
proprietary, and cheeper, but the second is in line with the
self-interest of the AT consultant.


"I think thanks to object navigation, NVDA could have a superior
feature to JAWS' being able to read frames. It would be cool if we
were able to specify a screen object, and then tell NVDA what we want
it to do with the object: read it whenever content changes, leftclick
or rightclick it and probably more. Frames in JAWS only worked if
screen resolution didn't change. If the actions were tied to an object
and not a frame thus not dependent on its dimensions on the screen,
the configuration could work for different people with different screen resolutions.
"

Right again, although this might already be possible. If not, it
should end up in an add-on one of these days. But again, for the vast
majority of things, we expect the developer to develop and the screen
reader to read the screen. Reading specific sections of busy screens
at a touch would be super handy, but if your developer did their
keyboard support properly, there would be few if any instances of
requiring some one to access features exclusively with a mouse.


Best

Sandra






Am 23.12.2017 um 23:52 schrieb Gene:
You can't label graphics, you can't create frames and there is no
adjustment of the screen echo. There is also no way to skip baqck and
forward by line when the screen echo is set to all or when using read
to end and have speech continue. If these abilities were present, as
far as I know, that would make NVDA as user configurable as JAWS and
Window-eyes. These are important lacks in NVDA.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Adriani Botez <mailto:adriani.botez@...>
*Sent:* Saturday, December 23, 2017 2:34 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

This is not correct. NVDA is well adjustable, even much easier than jaws.



Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 23.12.2017 um 03:47 schrieb Gene <gsasner@...
<mailto:gsasner@...>>:

You can't do what I could do when I used Pine with a shell account a
long time ago. I didn't need to create any frames or scripts. All I
had to do was set the screen echo of JAWS to all, open a message,
and then use the jaws skip line wile reading feature, right shift,
to very quickly jump to the start of the message body. Even if NVDA
reads such material when it appears on screen, you either listen to
everything or nothing and use the tedious read by line screen review
option. Hardly a convenient or reasonable way to go through thirty
e-mails.
Like it or not, NVDA isn't user definable. You can't label graphics
and you can't create frames. These are serious deficiencies even if
many of us don't need such options.
And you can't set the screen echo to all and then do what I did, as
I described. This may be an important ability for some users.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* coffeekingms@... <mailto:coffeekingms@...>
*Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2017 7:16 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi

I concur. I firmly believe that NVDA can do most, if not all, the
things more expensive programs can do. With some very rare
exceptions. There are still some apps that require jfw with specific
scripts to be usable, but as time goes on those apps will dwindle
until there are none left. But for 99 percent of people, NVDA can
work for them, either alone or in combination with narrator, which
has gotten quite good. I don’t really set much store by such
presentations, as the few I’ve bothered to listen to gloss over the
free options as if they’re not there, are not worth mentioning or
aren’t good enough. This applies to NVDA as well as open source
operating systems like Linux. I have not listened to the
presentation people are talking about, so I don’t want to ruffle any
feathers, but as a rule I don’t listen to them. They tend to
unilaterally insist that only the paid apps are worth using. Except
for the NVDA podcasts. Those are great, although I don’t follow
those either. I’m just a user. I use NVDA on a daily basis and have
found very little that it can’t do. If it can’t navigate an app by
the usual methods, tab, shift tab, arrows, then it can by either
touch, if you have a touch screen or object navigation.Even when I
was using Linux full time I would keep up with NVDA’s progress, and
NVDA is what eventually brought me back to using windows again.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

--------------------------------------------------------------------
----
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> on behalf of Don
H <lmddh50@... <mailto:lmddh50@...>>
*Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2017 6:18:54 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed I think that NVDA is just as
good or better than any other screen reader. I think the issue for
businesses is the fact that NVDA is open source thus in their minds
less secure.




Re: Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

Gene
 

The conspiracy theory makes me wonder if you, Brian, read the article before you expressed the conspiracy hypothesis.  the facts in the article, such as that this affects Linux as well, and that the problem wasn't discovered by Microsoft and that Linux developers are working on a software fix as well, all demolish the conspiracy idea. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Alex Kenny
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

While this has existed for the past decade, it has only been discovered recently. We have been "living with it", because, as far as we know no one had discover and exploit it. These patches, while slowing performance slightly and only in some use cases, will fix the problem.


Also, jumping immediately to some conspiracy by Microsoft doesn't make sense. First, as Anthony previously stated, Linux is being patched. Mac OS will also be updated.

Second, this issue affects the kernel, which has nothing to do with whether traditional Win32 or Windows Store apps are running on top of it. Deliberately slowing the kernel to induce people to use Windows Store apps is completely nonsensical.

This patch should only significantly affect use cases doing a lot of work in kernel space. NVDA will likely not be affected by this.  

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:00 AM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
It just seems odd that we have if you believe all this lived with this for a
decade and I'd have thought there was now a bit of the shutting the stable
door when all the horses have gone about trying to retro patch it I
understand the biggest losers could be the big server companies who might be
using Intel chipped hardware, and hence need things sorting out.
 So Maybe I should get my claim for a new processor in tomorrow to be in
time....:-)

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed
for nvda?


>I do not suspect ulterior motives on Microsoft's part in this case, because
> the Linux kernel is being patched in just the same way for just the same
> reason.
>
>
> Antony.
>
> On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 11:17:37, Brian's Mail list account via
> Groups.Io wrote:
>
>> Oh really, well, I'm not so sure. It feeds into the mindset that says
>> Microsofts eventual aim is to lock people in to getting software from its
>> store and nowhere else in the 'interests' of security, when in reality
>> they
>> want to do what Apple is doing, create an ecosystem and make it hard for
>> third parties to just allow their software to run on a system.
>>  Whether you suspect ulterior motives or not is your  choice.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 10:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact
>> speed
>> for nvda?
>>
>> >A large number of security flaws (in both software and hardware) do not
>> >get discovered for a long time after they crept into the design.
>> >
>> > I think "if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade, I'm
>> > not
>> > so sure its that much of an issue" is a dangerous assumption, and not
>> > borne out by Microsoft's sudden activity to patch Windows in such a way
>> > that it will have a definite performance penalty.  If the 10-year old
>> > security flaw were not much of a problem, Microsoft wouldn't react in a
>> > way
>> > that unavoidably impacts the majority of Windows users.
>> >
>> >
>> > Antony.
>> >
>> > On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 10:52:15, Brian's Mail list account via
>> >
>> > Groups.Io wrote:
>> >> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/
>> >>
>> >> I hope that link works, but its easy to find on that site in any case.
>> >> I'm not saying this sounds like paranoia, as I do not know enough to
>> >> make
>> >> such a comment, but if the security hole has been in the chips for a
>> >> decade, I'm not so sure its that much of an issue. at any rate I guess
>> >> all those out there with AMD chips will be chortling loudly.
>> >>
>> >>  If its a fault in the chip this seems that it could leave Intel open
>> >> to
>> >>  action to give everyone new chips!
>> >>
>> >>  Brian
>
> --
> When you find yourself arguing with an idiot,
> you should first of all make sure that the other person isn't doing the
> same
> thing.
>
>                                                   Please reply to the
> list;
>                                                         please *don't* CC
> me.
>
>
>





Re: Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

Alex Kenny
 

While this has existed for the past decade, it has only been discovered recently. We have been "living with it", because, as far as we know no one had discover and exploit it. These patches, while slowing performance slightly and only in some use cases, will fix the problem.


Also, jumping immediately to some conspiracy by Microsoft doesn't make sense. First, as Anthony previously stated, Linux is being patched. Mac OS will also be updated.

Second, this issue affects the kernel, which has nothing to do with whether traditional Win32 or Windows Store apps are running on top of it. Deliberately slowing the kernel to induce people to use Windows Store apps is completely nonsensical.

This patch should only significantly affect use cases doing a lot of work in kernel space. NVDA will likely not be affected by this.  

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:00 AM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
It just seems odd that we have if you believe all this lived with this for a
decade and I'd have thought there was now a bit of the shutting the stable
door when all the horses have gone about trying to retro patch it I
understand the biggest losers could be the big server companies who might be
using Intel chipped hardware, and hence need things sorting out.
 So Maybe I should get my claim for a new processor in tomorrow to be in
time....:-)

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed
for nvda?


>I do not suspect ulterior motives on Microsoft's part in this case, because
> the Linux kernel is being patched in just the same way for just the same
> reason.
>
>
> Antony.
>
> On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 11:17:37, Brian's Mail list account via
> Groups.Io wrote:
>
>> Oh really, well, I'm not so sure. It feeds into the mindset that says
>> Microsofts eventual aim is to lock people in to getting software from its
>> store and nowhere else in the 'interests' of security, when in reality
>> they
>> want to do what Apple is doing, create an ecosystem and make it hard for
>> third parties to just allow their software to run on a system.
>>  Whether you suspect ulterior motives or not is your  choice.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 10:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact
>> speed
>> for nvda?
>>
>> >A large number of security flaws (in both software and hardware) do not
>> >get discovered for a long time after they crept into the design.
>> >
>> > I think "if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade, I'm
>> > not
>> > so sure its that much of an issue" is a dangerous assumption, and not
>> > borne out by Microsoft's sudden activity to patch Windows in such a way
>> > that it will have a definite performance penalty.  If the 10-year old
>> > security flaw were not much of a problem, Microsoft wouldn't react in a
>> > way
>> > that unavoidably impacts the majority of Windows users.
>> >
>> >
>> > Antony.
>> >
>> > On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 10:52:15, Brian's Mail list account via
>> >
>> > Groups.Io wrote:
>> >> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/
>> >>
>> >> I hope that link works, but its easy to find on that site in any case.
>> >> I'm not saying this sounds like paranoia, as I do not know enough to
>> >> make
>> >> such a comment, but if the security hole has been in the chips for a
>> >> decade, I'm not so sure its that much of an issue. at any rate I guess
>> >> all those out there with AMD chips will be chortling loudly.
>> >>
>> >>  If its a fault in the chip this seems that it could leave Intel open
>> >> to
>> >>  action to give everyone new chips!
>> >>
>> >>  Brian
>
> --
> When you find yourself arguing with an idiot,
> you should first of all make sure that the other person isn't doing the
> same
> thing.
>
>                                                   Please reply to the
> list;
>                                                         please *don't* CC
> me.
>
>
>





Re: Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

Brian's Mail list account
 

It just seems odd that we have if you believe all this lived with this for a decade and I'd have thought there was now a bit of the shutting the stable door when all the horses have gone about trying to retro patch it I understand the biggest losers could be the big server companies who might be using Intel chipped hardware, and hence need things sorting out.
So Maybe I should get my claim for a new processor in tomorrow to be in time....:-)

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?


I do not suspect ulterior motives on Microsoft's part in this case, because
the Linux kernel is being patched in just the same way for just the same
reason.


Antony.

On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 11:17:37, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

Oh really, well, I'm not so sure. It feeds into the mindset that says
Microsofts eventual aim is to lock people in to getting software from its
store and nowhere else in the 'interests' of security, when in reality they
want to do what Apple is doing, create an ecosystem and make it hard for
third parties to just allow their software to run on a system.
Whether you suspect ulterior motives or not is your choice.

Brian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed
for nvda?

A large number of security flaws (in both software and hardware) do not
get discovered for a long time after they crept into the design.

I think "if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade, I'm not
so sure its that much of an issue" is a dangerous assumption, and not
borne out by Microsoft's sudden activity to patch Windows in such a way
that it will have a definite performance penalty. If the 10-year old
security flaw were not much of a problem, Microsoft wouldn't react in a way
that unavoidably impacts the majority of Windows users.


Antony.

On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 10:52:15, Brian's Mail list account via

Groups.Io wrote:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

I hope that link works, but its easy to find on that site in any case.
I'm not saying this sounds like paranoia, as I do not know enough to make
such a comment, but if the security hole has been in the chips for a
decade, I'm not so sure its that much of an issue. at any rate I guess
all those out there with AMD chips will be chortling loudly.

If its a fault in the chip this seems that it could leave Intel open to
action to give everyone new chips!

Brian
--
When you find yourself arguing with an idiot,
you should first of all make sure that the other person isn't doing the same
thing.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

Antony Stone
 

I do not suspect ulterior motives on Microsoft's part in this case, because
the Linux kernel is being patched in just the same way for just the same
reason.


Antony.

On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 11:17:37, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

Oh really, well, I'm not so sure. It feeds into the mindset that says
Microsofts eventual aim is to lock people in to getting software from its
store and nowhere else in the 'interests' of security, when in reality they
want to do what Apple is doing, create an ecosystem and make it hard for
third parties to just allow their software to run on a system.
Whether you suspect ulterior motives or not is your choice.

Brian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed
for nvda?

A large number of security flaws (in both software and hardware) do not
get discovered for a long time after they crept into the design.

I think "if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade, I'm not
so sure its that much of an issue" is a dangerous assumption, and not
borne out by Microsoft's sudden activity to patch Windows in such a way
that it will have a definite performance penalty. If the 10-year old
security flaw were not much of a problem, Microsoft wouldn't react in a way
that unavoidably impacts the majority of Windows users.


Antony.

On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 10:52:15, Brian's Mail list account via

Groups.Io wrote:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

I hope that link works, but its easy to find on that site in any case.
I'm not saying this sounds like paranoia, as I do not know enough to make
such a comment, but if the security hole has been in the chips for a
decade, I'm not so sure its that much of an issue. at any rate I guess
all those out there with AMD chips will be chortling loudly.

If its a fault in the chip this seems that it could leave Intel open to
action to give everyone new chips!

Brian
--
When you find yourself arguing with an idiot,
you should first of all make sure that the other person isn't doing the same
thing.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

Brian's Mail list account
 

Oh really, well, I'm not so sure. It feeds into the mindset that says Microsofts eventual aim is to lock people in to getting software from its store and nowhere else in the 'interests' of security, when in reality they want to do what Apple is doing, create an ecosystem and make it hard for third parties to just allow their software to run on a system.
Whether you suspect ulterior motives or not is your choice.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?


A large number of security flaws (in both software and hardware) do not get
discovered for a long time after they crept into the design.

I think "if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade, I'm not so
sure its that much of an issue" is a dangerous assumption, and not borne out
by Microsoft's sudden activity to patch Windows in such a way that it will
have a definite performance penalty. If the 10-year old security flaw were not
much of a problem, Microsoft wouldn't react in a way that unavoidably impacts
the majority of Windows users.


Antony.

On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 10:52:15, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

I hope that link works, but its easy to find on that site in any case. I'm
not saying this sounds like paranoia, as I do not know enough to make such
a comment, but if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade,
I'm not so sure its that much of an issue. at any rate I guess all those
out there with AMD chips will be chortling loudly.
If its a fault in the chip this seems that it could leave Intel open to
action to give everyone new chips!
Brian
--
Someone has stolen all the toilets from New Scotland Yard. Police say they
have absolutely nothing to go on.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: I'm dissappointed

Brian's Mail list account
 

For the record I do not want to divert this discussion away to other non nvda matters, I was merely using the medical info case as a case to demonstrate the issues of legality over what actually happens.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Again, I don't disagree necessarily. I'm just stating fact about the differences, advantages, disadvantages, and what all this means for users and developers. I want people who are in the kind of position that Sandra is in to understand where things are headed and that regardless of the short term solution, the end result will be more inclusive development.

All this has been going on for 10 or 12 years already. It should come as no surprise to most of us. There are a huge number of factors. Obviously, we want full inclusion sooner than later. That requires us to balance the short term and long term goals. We need to get things done today, but we also need to keep our eyes on the prise, and advocate for new infrestructure that fits the new paradigm.

We have to realise that we are legally and socially entitled to consideration in development, that we have people with the skills to collaborate in bringing in the new design paradigm, that the laws and standards support us, that the new paradigm benefits every one, not only people with disabilities, and that the more we become adopters and advocates, the faster we forward the trend.

Best,

Erik


On January 1, 2018 8:27:59 PM "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal@...> wrote:

<snip > This is one area where I disagree. Not that jaws has the features or
that they are useful, but that they belong in NVDA. I believe that it
is the responsibility of developers to label their graphics and
controls, draw and class their windows and controls properly, and
build keyboard/touchscreen support for their apps properly. This is
increasingly required by law, imposed by societal change, taught as
programming best practice, and demonstrably beneficial beyond the
needs of disability communities. Unfortunately, it's not all there
yet, but within the next three years, it will become legally and
socially inacceptable to build software without regard for
accessibility standards, just as you wouldn't build out with no regard
for UI, performance, security, and other common standards and best
practices. I believe the development philosophy of NVDA is based on
this. A screen reader should read the screen, conveying the
information already provided in accessible format, doing as little
interpretation as possible.
PL] Eric, I agree with Sandra. Philosophy is ok in the long run but I have to get work done now and will take the easiest path to do that work. Compliance is never 100%. What about all the legacy applications enterprises run? I need a solution for reading the screen and I see no problem in that solution giving me information in a way that is easiest for me to consume.

Pranav








Re: Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

Antony Stone
 

A large number of security flaws (in both software and hardware) do not get
discovered for a long time after they crept into the design.

I think "if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade, I'm not so
sure its that much of an issue" is a dangerous assumption, and not borne out
by Microsoft's sudden activity to patch Windows in such a way that it will
have a definite performance penalty. If the 10-year old security flaw were not
much of a problem, Microsoft wouldn't react in a way that unavoidably impacts
the majority of Windows users.


Antony.

On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 10:52:15, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

I hope that link works, but its easy to find on that site in any case. I'm
not saying this sounds like paranoia, as I do not know enough to make such
a comment, but if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade,
I'm not so sure its that much of an issue. at any rate I guess all those
out there with AMD chips will be chortling loudly.
If its a fault in the chip this seems that it could leave Intel open to
action to give everyone new chips!
Brian
--
Someone has stolen all the toilets from New Scotland Yard. Police say they
have absolutely nothing to go on.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

Brian's Mail list account
 

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

I hope that link works, but its easy to find on that site in any case. I'm not saying this sounds like paranoia, as I do not know enough to make such a comment, but if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade, I'm not so sure its that much of an issue. at any rate I guess all those out there with AMD chips will be chortling loudly.
If its a fault in the chip this seems that it could leave Intel open to action to give everyone new chips!
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


Re: numb lock help

Gene
 

When odd behaviors occur, unless you have a good reason to try something else first, the two things to try are to unload and run NvDA and to reboot, in whichever order you wish.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: slery
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] numb lock help

After returning home, I restarted NVDA (did not restart the computer) and it fixed itself. All is working as it should now.

 

Cindy

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 12:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] numb lock help

 

First, let's address the most simple possible solution.  Have you rebootted since the problem started? 

 

If you have and it didn't solve the problem, I'll send another message discussing other things you can try.  For now, I'll say that there is nothing you could have typed that is a command to make such a change.  Whether something you typed caused some sort of malfunction, I couldn't say but there is nothing you could have typed that any designer intended to cause this change

 

Last, there are many larger laptops with numpads.  . 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: slery

Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 10:31 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] numb lock help

 

No, I mean a desktop just as I indicated. Laptops do not have a number pad
unless you by an external.

I have also discovered that it does the same thing with the + - * and /. It
apparently has to do with NVDA because I have it in all programs except
Money Talks where NVDA is asleep and I am using self voicing for that
program as I prefer the way it reads things.
Cindy


On January 2, 2018 5:10:20 PM "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
<bglists@...> wrote:

> I have no idea, but most of us find the exact opposite, ie its turned on
> when we want it off!
>  I'm assuming you mean its alaptop and that its toggled now by a single key.
> I cannot imagine how this might be achieved.
>  is there a fn key on the machine somewhere.
>  Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "slery" <slerythema@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 7:15 PM
> Subject: [nvda] numb lock help
>
>
>>I have accidently done something to the number pad on my keyboard
>>(desktop).
>> When I hit the / on the numb pad it turns off the numb lock. So, if I want
>> to type a date I type 1/ and then the numb lock is off and I can't type
>> the
>> rest of the date without turning the numb lock back on. It was probably
>> some
>> kind of accidental multiple key press on the numb pad as this is when it
>> started.
>>
>>
>>
>> Desperately seeking help,
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: numb lock help

slery <slerythema@...>
 

After returning home, I restarted NVDA (did not restart the computer) and it fixed itself. All is working as it should now.

 

Cindy

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 12:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] numb lock help

 

First, let's address the most simple possible solution.  Have you rebootted since the problem started? 

 

If you have and it didn't solve the problem, I'll send another message discussing other things you can try.  For now, I'll say that there is nothing you could have typed that is a command to make such a change.  Whether something you typed caused some sort of malfunction, I couldn't say but there is nothing you could have typed that any designer intended to cause this change

 

Last, there are many larger laptops with numpads.  . 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: slery

Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 10:31 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] numb lock help

 

No, I mean a desktop just as I indicated. Laptops do not have a number pad
unless you by an external.

I have also discovered that it does the same thing with the + - * and /. It
apparently has to do with NVDA because I have it in all programs except
Money Talks where NVDA is asleep and I am using self voicing for that
program as I prefer the way it reads things.
Cindy


On January 2, 2018 5:10:20 PM "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
<bglists@...> wrote:

> I have no idea, but most of us find the exact opposite, ie its turned on
> when we want it off!
>  I'm assuming you mean its alaptop and that its toggled now by a single key.
> I cannot imagine how this might be achieved.
>  is there a fn key on the machine somewhere.
>  Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "slery" <slerythema@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 7:15 PM
> Subject: [nvda] numb lock help
>
>
>>I have accidently done something to the number pad on my keyboard
>>(desktop).
>> When I hit the / on the numb pad it turns off the numb lock. So, if I want
>> to type a date I type 1/ and then the numb lock is off and I can't type
>> the
>> rest of the date without turning the numb lock back on. It was probably
>> some
>> kind of accidental multiple key press on the numb pad as this is when it
>> started.
>>
>>
>>
>> Desperately seeking help,
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Weather Plus 4.7 03.01.2018 update available

Adriano Barbieri
 


Hi to every one,
Changes in this version:
• Simplified the update section;
Now at the start, in case an update is available it will be possible to proceed directly through a single dialog box.
• removed the file selector in the update section;
Now the update file is uploaded to the temporary folder, thereby solving problems due to non-expert users.
 
Weather Plus can update alone, however, it is possible to download
manually from the following links:
http://www.nvda.it/files/plugin/weather_plus4.7.nvda-addon
or from page:
http://www.nvda.it/weather-plus/
or from page:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/weatherPlus.en.html
 
I wish you all a happy 2018.
Adriano Barbieri


Re: numb lock help

Gene
 

First, let's address the most simple possible solution.  Have you rebootted since the problem started? 
 
If you have and it didn't solve the problem, I'll send another message discussing other things you can try.  For now, I'll say that there is nothing you could have typed that is a command to make such a change.  Whether something you typed caused some sort of malfunction, I couldn't say but there is nothing you could have typed that any designer intended to cause this change
 
Last, there are many larger laptops with numpads.  . 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: slery
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] numb lock help

No, I mean a desktop just as I indicated. Laptops do not have a number pad
unless you by an external.

I have also discovered that it does the same thing with the + - * and /. It
apparently has to do with NVDA because I have it in all programs except
Money Talks where NVDA is asleep and I am using self voicing for that
program as I prefer the way it reads things.
Cindy


On January 2, 2018 5:10:20 PM "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
<bglists@...> wrote:

> I have no idea, but most of us find the exact opposite, ie its turned on
> when we want it off!
>  I'm assuming you mean its alaptop and that its toggled now by a single key.
> I cannot imagine how this might be achieved.
>  is there a fn key on the machine somewhere.
>  Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "slery" <slerythema@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 7:15 PM
> Subject: [nvda] numb lock help
>
>
>>I have accidently done something to the number pad on my keyboard
>>(desktop).
>> When I hit the / on the numb pad it turns off the numb lock. So, if I want
>> to type a date I type 1/ and then the numb lock is off and I can't type
>> the
>> rest of the date without turning the numb lock back on. It was probably
>> some
>> kind of accidental multiple key press on the numb pad as this is when it
>> started.
>>
>>
>>
>> Desperately seeking help,
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>
>
>
>





Re: numb lock help

slery <slerythema@...>
 

I do in fact get the / and by pressing / * - or+ it turns off number lock
and I can't type any more numbers without pressing numb lock.

Pressing enter on numb pad does not cause this to happen.
Cindy


On January 2, 2018 2:23:08 PM "Antony Stone"
<antony.stone@...> wrote:

When you press the / key, do you get the / symbol?

I ask because on my number pad, the Num Lock key is the top left, whereas the
/ key is immediately to its right.

I just wonder whether you're pressing the Num Lock key instead (which would be
indicated by not getting the / symbol when you press the button), and
therefore the next key to the right is the one you need?

On my number pad, the keys on the top row, from left to right, and Num Lock, /
(slash), * (asterisk) and - (minus).


Antony.

On Tuesday 02 January 2018 at 20:15:45, slery wrote:

I have accidently done something to the number pad on my keyboard
(desktop). When I hit the / on the numb pad it turns off the numb lock.
So, if I want to type a date I type 1/ and then the numb lock is off and I
can't type the rest of the date without turning the numb lock back on. It
was probably some kind of accidental multiple key press on the numb pad as
this is when it started.

Desperately seeking help,

Cindy
--
Users don't know what they want until they see what they get.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.



Re: numb lock help

slery <slerythema@...>
 

No, I mean a desktop just as I indicated. Laptops do not have a number pad
unless you by an external.

I have also discovered that it does the same thing with the + - * and /. It
apparently has to do with NVDA because I have it in all programs except
Money Talks where NVDA is asleep and I am using self voicing for that
program as I prefer the way it reads things.
Cindy


On January 2, 2018 5:10:20 PM "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
<bglists@...> wrote:

I have no idea, but most of us find the exact opposite, ie its turned on
when we want it off!
I'm assuming you mean its alaptop and that its toggled now by a single key.
I cannot imagine how this might be achieved.
is there a fn key on the machine somewhere.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "slery" <slerythema@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 7:15 PM
Subject: [nvda] numb lock help


I have accidently done something to the number pad on my keyboard
(desktop).
When I hit the / on the numb pad it turns off the numb lock. So, if I want
to type a date I type 1/ and then the numb lock is off and I can't type
the
rest of the date without turning the numb lock back on. It was probably
some
kind of accidental multiple key press on the numb pad as this is when it
started.



Desperately seeking help,

Cindy