Date   

Re: one core voices are too slow when I choose them with nvda

Sarah k Alawami
 

Yah I got it. setings with windows 8, then go right until you hear language and speech, hit enter. Now go to speech ad hit enter or space. Now go o the slider and adjust from there. It will also make your narrator speed up very fast if you are not careful so be aware of this.

On Jan 3, 2018, at 9:50 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,
I guess it is time to ask the wizard (Tyler Spivey) to help us.
Cheers,
Joseph
 
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 9:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] one core voices are too slow when I choose them with nvda
 
I don't know how well you will hear nvda  if at all but here is a sample of when I accidentally had it at 100 percent. I cannot get it to sound like this any longer. Sorry about the crppy audio. Let's just say I was having a bad day. It's attached to my google drive.
 
 


On Jan 3, 2018, at 9:17 PM, Sarah Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
 
Ah Ok. I'm no longer in the insider program so guess I'll have to wait for this one.

Take care and thanks.


On Jan 3, 2018, at 9:11 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,
Go to Settings/Ease of Access/Narrator and change the rate to above 80. At
the moment the overall rate is tied to that setting, but I'll ask around to
see if we can change that (requires Windows 10 Version 1709).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k
Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 8:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] one core voices are too slow when I choose them with nvda

Hello to all. This happens on the stable and next builds. I just reinstalled
windows on my computer and nvda as well. I made sure the system voice was at
Narrator is set to 70.  The one core voices for nvda are still way way way
too slow. I don't see the voice boost anywhere. How can I change this again'
I've actually forgotten how.

Take care all.




 



Re: Portable Document Format

MJW <matthewjwilliams101@...>
 

btw, I use QRead for reading PDF's Epubs, docx's, etc. It works
particularly well with pdf and epub.

On 04/01/2018, tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov <tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov> wrote:
One of the help files I make is a PDF. It has a lot of page references
created by Acrobat when it builds the PDF. How does NVDA read them?

For a reference icon directing the sighted user to page six, does NVDA say
(multiple choice):


A. Nothing

B. 6

C. Page 6

D. Reference Page 6

E. Something Else

I can create a sample page if anyone needs one. Just email me privately and
I'll send it to you since I can't send it to the list.

I've been so busy boning up on W3.WCAG 2.0 that I haven't done much with PDF
standards yet.

Thanks,

Tonea Morrow


Re: I'm dissappointed

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Kevin,

I did do a forced shutdown before calling the microsoft disability line. That's great advice.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Huber
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 8:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi:

These scammers know that if they can get one out of ten or twenty, or even fifty, They can make a killing, so it is worth it to them.

If they are claiming to be Microsoft or some company like that and you are even a little suspicious, my advice would be to get rid of them by unplugging the computer or doing a forced shutdown, then call Microsoft Support themselves, tell them about what you just experienced and ask if they are aware of such a virus.
Kevin Huber

On 1/3/18, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Keven,

I had that happen to me not too long ago. I had to call the microsoft
disability line and the person there helped me get rid of that pop-up
window. Yes, some of these crooks do claim to be from microsoft. I
guess they have nothing better to do with their time except to scam
innocent victims.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Kevin Huber
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi Kendell:
I had this happen to me a few months ago. the voice told me that if I
wanted to stop that message from repeating over and over again, I had
to call the number on my screen. Since I could not shut down
properly, I did a forced shutdown. I was scared that somehow, my
computer had been hacked, but I was assured, by a friend of mine, who
is a retired IT person, that if I didn't call the number, nothing
could happen. But, wouldn't you know it, only a couple of weeks
later, a friend of mine had her computer hacked because she called the
number. She couldn't believe she'd been scammed since the message on
her screen said that it was from Microsoft, but I told her that some
of those crooks use the name of Microsoft to fool their victums into thinking they are legitimate.

Kevin Huber

On 12/28/17, coffeekingms@hotmail.com <coffeekingms@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi

I don’t know a lot about NVDA remote but in my experience, you have
to deliberately connect to a server, unless of course you select the
default which is to forward things through nvdaremove.com, which I
would not advise.
Not because t spivey and his other developer are not trustworthy but
because it’s an easy target for people who might try to crack the
site or get into remote sessions. Always set up a dedicated pc or at
least a pc that someone you know and trust owns that you can use for
stuff like that. I think it ultimately depends like someone else said
the quality of the person on the other end. I have had people from
other countries try to tell me my computer has reported to them, them
being a fake Microsoft, that it is sick with a virus and for just
$99.99 they can cure it. Clear scam but it can work on people. I’ve
seen it work. I don’t know if these will work anymore with the advent
of windows defender being built in, it might if the person on the
other end says the virus has disabled it. They’ve gotten quite
clever. I ran across a bot that used windows own built in voice to
give the standard you may have a virus prompt. That could lure people
into thinking it is legitimate. I didn’t fall for it because I don’t
use narrator’s default voice and speech settings, but someone who
uses the defaults could fall for it. This in windows 10, it used ms david for the prompt.

Thanks

Kendell Clark





Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook



________________________________
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Jason
White via Groups.Io <jason=jasonjgw.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 7:40:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I would argue that providing technical support is an under-valued
profession. I've encountered technical support staff who clearly
don't know enough to solve my problem, and if they did know,
unfortunately they would be in a "better" (more prestigious, more
highly paid, etc.) job elsewhere.

In the commercial hardware and software world, the usual solution is
to have multiple layers of technical support, so that the easy cases
can be dealt with at the lower levels and the harder cases escalated
upward. In my experience, this often doesn't work well if you have
one of the harder cases. I don't know whether anyone has developed a
model that works effectively and which can scale.

Community support (as with free and open-source software projects)
can be very effective in practice, as this and similar mailing lists
have shown over the years. The more that the user knows, of course,
the more benefits tend to be gained.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I'm keeping away from this subject in case anyone was wondering. I
help out people local to me. In the main its a voice call or a quick
visit in the main. Nine times out of ten its faulty training or lack
of training by others that are the issue.
Also however I have to give credit where it is due. A much maligned
company here in the UK for simply selling boxes, called PC World have
always gone the extra mile for most people who have encountered
problems due to their naivety or disability. They did a telephone
restore of a system for a friend of mine recently and managed to get
the screenreader working as well.
It really depends on the quality of the tech person obviously.

I myself have not used the remote system for nvda in anger and would
not feel happy about doing so without a lot of testing first, mainly
due to my own shortcomings.
Tech support is not easy. Its a bit like solving a criminal case.
You often get bad or no info about what happened and have to somehow
deduce the best way to proceed to preserve data etc.
So when people do say tech support is expensive, yes it is if its
any good.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


I'm not planning to offer such a service. I was saying that just
because NVDA is free, that that doesn't mean that technical support
should be assumed to be free. Some people may offer free support and
some may offer paid support. But unless this is discussed, people
may assume that everyone is discussing a free support system because
NVDA is free.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal Lambert
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 8:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hi All,

Gene’s offer is a sound one. I will be the first one to take
advantage of it. Please let me know when will you start offering
your service.

Blessings

Pascal



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 9:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



That's hardly the first suggestion on this list and I doubt on other
lists.
At times, this suggestion is made because people don't know the
answer or because some problems are difficult to solve by back and
forth messages by e-mail. Someone remoting into the computer may
solve some kinds of problems much faster and perhaps problems that
wouldn't be solved on lists either because of lack of knowledge or
the difficulty in solving some problems by exchanging messages.



But since peoples' experiences, as they report them, vary widely when
they call, evidently some techs are competent and some aren't, I
would caution people that it is better to ask about a problem here
first and, those who know enough, when they call the disability line,
should have the tech tell them what is going to be done so that if
something doesn't sound correct, it can be not approved.



But I was talking about technical support offered by the NVDA
community in some way, in my last message. I enjoy answering
questions and solving things on lists. If I had something like a
shift, where I received phone calls for a certain number of hours a
day, that would be more like a job and I might want to be paid for
it. Because of possible limitations in finances, I might not ask to
be paid nearly what my services would be worth, but I might still
want to be paid something, five or seven dollars an hour and that
would be a very cheap price, considering how much good technical
support is worth. That's not even minimum wage in the United States.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Lino Morales

Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 6:48 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



I agree. Trying to trouble shoot things regardless of what screen
reader on any version of WIN is the NO.1 priority. The number one
song ahem suggestion as of late here and on the WIN 10 year has been
call the MS disability help desk. It seems like that’s the first
thing as of late that gets spouted off the mouth. This is my chief complaint.
Its getting old. That’s why their lists like this. Somebody is bound
to know the answers to XYZZ question.
Help desk or taking PC or laptop in to a local shop should be a last
resort.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



Perhaps, but a fundamental question as barely been discussed, if at all.
NVDA is free. Does that mean services related to it should be free
and to what extent? If you are going to expect someone to do
something like a job, that is, sit around and wait for calls a
certain number of hours a day, some people might be willing to do
that. That doesn't mean that it is reasonable to assume that enough
people will be willing to do so to build a corps of enough people
around the world. Knowing how to teach and troubleshoot well are
valuable skills and, depending on the problems presented, the
solutions or what is taught may take time and effort. Why would
peoples' skills and knowledge be assumed to be available for free?
That devalues both. I enjoy writing instructions and helping with
problems on an e-mail list where I control what I write and how often
and when I look at list mail when I want.
Sitting Waiting for a phone to ring, being at the call of anyone who
decides to call at any time for a number of hours a day, is a lot
more like work, at least to me.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 9:59 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



Why don't we use trained volunteers who would have to pass a
certification and let them wait by the phone or skype for tech support.
People who are advanced users of nvda could be people who could do this.
This would give blind people who don't have anything to do somthing
to do.

Brian Sackrider


On 12/23/2017 2:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Hmmm how would one go about doing this.

Firstly you would need some way to handle this.

I guess if it was all done via skype it could be done but I
certainly do not have time to sit round on a waiting for calls on nvda.

For mail ie email we have this list for global support and the tech
lists at least in new zealand do handle nvda questions and issues if
they get posted there.

There is the blind organisation I am in and they have an
accessibility centre of sorts that covers all support I suspose nvda
to but who knows.

Its an organisation so like all of them they want you to use jaws
but who knows a lot of that has changed a lot.




On 24/12/2017 8:22 a.m., Rui Fontes wrote:
I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having
some kind of support center, by phone or by mail...

At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA...
by phone, Skype or mail...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well nvda does not use a traditional support line, the email list
is support for most part.

I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs
run which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech
support call centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing
support but its not a full support group.

Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not
sure how we can fix this shortfall.

Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app
for nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone
and dial support.

Here is the thing, a number of devs and a few are payed but most
of us are not.

Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support
for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and
email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is
always the best especially if the computer does not work right.




On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@cantos.us wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my
students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to
adopt NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training
myself through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started
training my student and implementing it with his school work. We
have found what works one day does not always work the next day.
What has been frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech
support for NVDA on the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting.
We have very limited hours in a school day to complete our
training and work with students with visual impairments. Their
curriculum extends beyond the core curriculum as we all know and
efficiency with support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS
with my student and it has been seemless and working well. I
really want to adopt NVDA but it has been very frustrating. We
teach our students to brainstorm and contact tech support when
needed but NVDA does not make it easy for our students to do this.
Our students are the future of NVDA as future screen readers.
Thoughts?




.


.






















Portable Document Format

tonea.ctr.morrow@...
 

One of the help files I make is a PDF.  It has a lot of page references created by Acrobat when it builds the PDF. How does NVDA read them?

 

For a reference icon directing the sighted user to page six, does NVDA say (multiple choice):

 

A.      Nothing

B.      6

C.      Page 6

D.      Reference Page 6

E.       Something Else

 

I can create a sample page if anyone needs one. Just email me privately and I’ll send it to you since I can’t send it to the list.

 

I’ve been so busy boning up on W3.WCAG 2.0 that I haven’t done much with PDF standards yet.

 

Thanks,

 

Tonea Morrow


Re: Mozilla Apps Enhancements add-on is out #addonrelease

Rui Fontes
 

It will announce what is in the date column.
In the messages received on the current day, Thunderbird only display time...

Rui


Às 02:16 de 04/01/2018, Robert Mendoza escreveu:

I tested this and it works well. However, in Thunderbird when I pressed control+ shift + 6 it announces only the time, not the date. Also, like to ask if we could customize the date format settings as well.
Robert Mendoza
On 1/4/2018 9:20 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Mozilla fans,

A brand new add-on named Mozilla Apps Enhancements by Javi Dominguez is now up. This adds useful keyboard commands for Firefox and Thunderbird.

Details can be found at:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/mozillaScripts.en.html

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: windows patch for intels

 

Hi,

No, it affects AMD processors, so you’ll get this patch.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 5:01 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] windows patch for intels

 

Hi

I have an AMD a6 quad core processor. So I won’t be getting this patch then? Right? I got laptops with AMD processors because they cost a lot less than intel and they run just as good. Also AMD processors are used for xBox game consoles so I figure they must be very good.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: I'm dissappointed

Kevin Huber
 

Hi:

These scammers know that if they can get one out of ten or twenty, or
even fifty, They can make a killing, so it is worth it to them.

If they are claiming to be Microsoft or some company like that and you
are even a little suspicious, my advice would be to get rid of them by
unplugging the computer or doing a forced shutdown, then call
Microsoft Support themselves, tell them about what you just
experienced and ask if they are aware of such a virus.
Kevin Huber

On 1/3/18, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Keven,

I had that happen to me not too long ago. I had to call the microsoft
disability line and the person there helped me get rid of that pop-up
window. Yes, some of these crooks do claim to be from microsoft. I guess
they have nothing better to do with their time except to scam innocent
victims.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin
Huber
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi Kendell:
I had this happen to me a few months ago. the voice told me that if I wanted
to stop that message from repeating over and over again, I had to call the
number on my screen. Since I could not shut down properly, I did a forced
shutdown. I was scared that somehow, my computer had been hacked, but I was
assured, by a friend of mine, who is a retired IT person, that if I didn't
call the number, nothing could happen. But, wouldn't you know it, only a
couple of weeks later, a friend of mine had her computer hacked because she
called the number. She couldn't believe she'd been scammed since the
message on her screen said that it was from Microsoft, but I told her that
some of those crooks use the name of Microsoft to fool their victums into
thinking they are legitimate.

Kevin Huber

On 12/28/17, coffeekingms@hotmail.com <coffeekingms@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi

I don’t know a lot about NVDA remote but in my experience, you have to
deliberately connect to a server, unless of course you select the
default which is to forward things through nvdaremove.com, which I would
not advise.
Not because t spivey and his other developer are not trustworthy but
because it’s an easy target for people who might try to crack the site
or get into remote sessions. Always set up a dedicated pc or at least
a pc that someone you know and trust owns that you can use for stuff
like that. I think it ultimately depends like someone else said the
quality of the person on the other end. I have had people from other
countries try to tell me my computer has reported to them, them being
a fake Microsoft, that it is sick with a virus and for just $99.99
they can cure it. Clear scam but it can work on people. I’ve seen it
work. I don’t know if these will work anymore with the advent of
windows defender being built in, it might if the person on the other
end says the virus has disabled it. They’ve gotten quite clever. I ran
across a bot that used windows own built in voice to give the standard
you may have a virus prompt. That could lure people into thinking it
is legitimate. I didn’t fall for it because I don’t use narrator’s
default voice and speech settings, but someone who uses the defaults could
fall for it. This in windows 10, it used ms david for the prompt.

Thanks

Kendell Clark





Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook



________________________________
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Jason
White via Groups.Io <jason=jasonjgw.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 7:40:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I would argue that providing technical support is an under-valued
profession. I've encountered technical support staff who clearly don't
know enough to solve my problem, and if they did know, unfortunately
they would be in a "better" (more prestigious, more highly paid, etc.) job
elsewhere.

In the commercial hardware and software world, the usual solution is
to have multiple layers of technical support, so that the easy cases
can be dealt with at the lower levels and the harder cases escalated
upward. In my experience, this often doesn't work well if you have one
of the harder cases. I don't know whether anyone has developed a model
that works effectively and which can scale.

Community support (as with free and open-source software projects) can
be very effective in practice, as this and similar mailing lists have
shown over the years. The more that the user knows, of course, the
more benefits tend to be gained.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I'm keeping away from this subject in case anyone was wondering. I
help out people local to me. In the main its a voice call or a quick
visit in the main. Nine times out of ten its faulty training or lack
of training by others that are the issue.
Also however I have to give credit where it is due. A much maligned
company here in the UK for simply selling boxes, called PC World have
always gone the extra mile for most people who have encountered
problems due to their naivety or disability. They did a telephone
restore of a system for a friend of mine recently and managed to get the
screenreader working as well.
It really depends on the quality of the tech person obviously.

I myself have not used the remote system for nvda in anger and would
not feel happy about doing so without a lot of testing first, mainly
due to my own shortcomings.
Tech support is not easy. Its a bit like solving a criminal case. You
often get bad or no info about what happened and have to somehow
deduce the best way to proceed to preserve data etc.
So when people do say tech support is expensive, yes it is if its any
good.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


I'm not planning to offer such a service. I was saying that just
because NVDA is free, that that doesn't mean that technical support
should be assumed to be free. Some people may offer free support and
some may offer paid support. But unless this is discussed, people may
assume that everyone is discussing a free support system because NVDA
is free.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal Lambert
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 8:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hi All,

Gene’s offer is a sound one. I will be the first one to take
advantage of it. Please let me know when will you start offering your
service.

Blessings

Pascal



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 9:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



That's hardly the first suggestion on this list and I doubt on other
lists.
At times, this suggestion is made because people don't know the answer
or because some problems are difficult to solve by back and forth
messages by e-mail. Someone remoting into the computer may solve some
kinds of problems much faster and perhaps problems that wouldn't be
solved on lists either because of lack of knowledge or the difficulty
in solving some problems by exchanging messages.



But since peoples' experiences, as they report them, vary widely when
they call, evidently some techs are competent and some aren't, I would
caution people that it is better to ask about a problem here first
and, those who know enough, when they call the disability line, should
have the tech tell them what is going to be done so that if something
doesn't sound correct, it can be not approved.



But I was talking about technical support offered by the NVDA
community in some way, in my last message. I enjoy answering
questions and solving things on lists. If I had something like a
shift, where I received phone calls for a certain number of hours a
day, that would be more like a job and I might want to be paid for
it. Because of possible limitations in finances, I might not ask to
be paid nearly what my services would be worth, but I might still want
to be paid something, five or seven dollars an hour and that would be
a very cheap price, considering how much good technical support is
worth. That's not even minimum wage in the United States.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Lino Morales

Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 6:48 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



I agree. Trying to trouble shoot things regardless of what screen
reader on any version of WIN is the NO.1 priority. The number one song
ahem suggestion as of late here and on the WIN 10 year has been call
the MS disability help desk. It seems like that’s the first thing as
of late that gets spouted off the mouth. This is my chief complaint.
Its getting old. That’s why their lists like this. Somebody is bound
to know the answers to XYZZ question.
Help desk or taking PC or laptop in to a local shop should be a last
resort.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



Perhaps, but a fundamental question as barely been discussed, if at all.
NVDA is free. Does that mean services related to it should be free
and to what extent? If you are going to expect someone to do
something like a job, that is, sit around and wait for calls a certain
number of hours a day, some people might be willing to do that. That
doesn't mean that it is reasonable to assume that enough people will
be willing to do so to build a corps of enough people around the
world. Knowing how to teach and troubleshoot well are valuable skills
and, depending on the problems presented, the solutions or what is
taught may take time and effort. Why would peoples' skills and
knowledge be assumed to be available for free? That devalues both. I
enjoy writing instructions and helping with problems on an e-mail list
where I control what I write and how often and when I look at list
mail when I want.
Sitting Waiting for a phone to ring, being at the call of anyone who
decides to call at any time for a number of hours a day, is a lot
more like work, at least to me.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 9:59 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



Why don't we use trained volunteers who would have to pass a
certification and let them wait by the phone or skype for tech support.
People who are advanced users of nvda could be people who could do this.
This would give blind people who don't have anything to do somthing to
do.

Brian Sackrider


On 12/23/2017 2:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Hmmm how would one go about doing this.

Firstly you would need some way to handle this.

I guess if it was all done via skype it could be done but I certainly
do not have time to sit round on a waiting for calls on nvda.

For mail ie email we have this list for global support and the tech
lists at least in new zealand do handle nvda questions and issues if
they get posted there.

There is the blind organisation I am in and they have an
accessibility centre of sorts that covers all support I suspose nvda to
but who knows.

Its an organisation so like all of them they want you to use jaws but
who knows a lot of that has changed a lot.




On 24/12/2017 8:22 a.m., Rui Fontes wrote:
I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having
some kind of support center, by phone or by mail...

At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA...
by phone, Skype or mail...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well nvda does not use a traditional support line, the email list
is support for most part.

I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs run
which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech support
call centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing support but
its not a full support group.

Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not
sure how we can fix this shortfall.

Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app
for nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone
and dial support.

Here is the thing, a number of devs and a few are payed but most
of us are not.

Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support
for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and
email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is
always the best especially if the computer does not work right.




On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@cantos.us wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my
students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to adopt
NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training myself
through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started training my
student and implementing it with his school work. We have found
what works one day does not always work the next day. What has
been frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech support for
NVDA on the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting.
We have very limited hours in a school day to complete our
training and work with students with visual impairments. Their
curriculum extends beyond the core curriculum as we all know and
efficiency with support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS
with my student and it has been seemless and working well. I
really want to adopt NVDA but it has been very frustrating. We
teach our students to brainstorm and contact tech support when
needed but NVDA does not make it easy for our students to do this.
Our students are the future of NVDA as future screen readers.
Thoughts?




.


.






















Important anouncement regarding Win 10 upgrade for assistive tech users

Jessica D
 

Hi,
According to an article I just read,  the free upgrade is still valid for assistive technology users. 
Here's the link, which contains the article with more information.

Windows 10 free upgrade is still alive and kicking in 2018 - techradar https://apple.news/Aq5fEDjsMNmKlV_Wxydqp6g

Thanks,
Jessica


Sent from my iPhone


windows patch for intels

Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...>
 

Hi

I have an AMD a6 quad core processor. So I won’t be getting this patch then? Right? I got laptops with AMD processors because they cost a lot less than intel and they run just as good. Also AMD processors are used for xBox game consoles so I figure they must be very good.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Latest Firefox is extremely slow

Gene
 

There may be some reason it's slower on your machine but that's not generally true.  Speed problems in version 57 seem to vary widely, with some people reporting problems and others reporting little or no slowdown.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Latest Firefox is extremely slow

For me FF has always been too slow, that's why I am still using IE.


Il 04/01/2018 10:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
> Incidentally 57 latest still completely fails in my windows 7, so I'm
> back on 52 esr. Maybe by the time they get to version 60 ythey might
> get it torun on windows 7. Ahem.
>
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 6:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Latest Firefox is extremely slow
>
>
>> Hi Group,
>>
>>
>> I have the latest 57 version, I think its 5 or 6 as in 57.005 or
>> 57.006 and I don't see this sluggishness.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/4/2018 12:47 AM, Lino Morales wrote:
>>> Yes. Run the version 52 ESR or simply wait till V 58 comes out.
>>> Download 58 beta build 13 also if you'd like. That's what I'm
>>> running now. Its not as slow as V577.3.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/4/2018 12:34 AM, Edhoari Setiyoso wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I tried Firefox for couple of weeks now and it feels so sluggish. I
>>>> think it began with Firefox Quantum, Unfortunately the solution
>>>> that I found in the mozilla forum is to prevent access for
>>>> accessibility, effectively rendering it useless with NVDA. Does
>>>> anyone here has another solution?
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>




Re: Latest Firefox is extremely slow

Angela Delicata
 

For me FF has always been too slow, that's why I am still using IE.

Il 04/01/2018 10:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Incidentally 57 latest still completely fails in my windows 7, so I'm back on 52 esr. Maybe by the time they get to version 60 ythey might get it torun on windows 7. Ahem.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 6:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Latest Firefox is extremely slow


Hi Group,


I have the latest 57 version, I think its 5 or 6 as in 57.005 or 57.006 and I don't see this sluggishness.



On 1/4/2018 12:47 AM, Lino Morales wrote:
Yes. Run the version 52 ESR or simply wait till V 58 comes out. Download 58 beta build 13 also if you'd like. That's what I'm running now. Its not as slow as V577.3.


On 1/4/2018 12:34 AM, Edhoari Setiyoso wrote:
Hi All,

I tried Firefox for couple of weeks now and it feels so sluggish. I think it began with Firefox Quantum, Unfortunately the solution that I found in the mozilla forum is to prevent access for accessibility, effectively rendering it useless with NVDA. Does anyone here has another solution?

Best Regards


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"






---
Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
http://www.avg.com


Re: Latest Firefox is extremely slow

 

I am done with mozilla..

If they say that screen readers are the problem I will use water fox which as all the stuff I need.

True it will eventually use outdated addons but so what.

With this new processer bug fix, I suspect firefox will be even worse.

On 4/01/2018 10:41 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Incidentally 57 latest still completely fails in my windows 7, so I'm back on 52 esr. Maybe by the time they get to version 60 ythey might get it torun on windows 7. Ahem.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 6:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Latest Firefox is extremely slow


Hi Group,


I have the latest 57 version, I think its 5 or 6 as in 57.005 or 57.006 and I don't see this sluggishness.



On 1/4/2018 12:47 AM, Lino Morales wrote:
Yes. Run the version 52 ESR or simply wait till V 58 comes out. Download 58 beta build 13 also if you'd like. That's what I'm running now. Its not as slow as V577.3.


On 1/4/2018 12:34 AM, Edhoari Setiyoso wrote:
Hi All,

I tried Firefox for couple of weeks now and it feels so sluggish. I think it began with Firefox Quantum, Unfortunately the solution that I found in the mozilla forum is to prevent access for accessibility, effectively rendering it useless with NVDA. Does anyone here has another solution?

Best Regards


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"





.


Re: Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

 

This bug has been known by those that needed to in december, but my suspician was that they only patched it now because it took them time to think what to do about it.

I mean, you don'

't chuck a problem then say but it may take a few months to figure out things, meanwhile you can't do anything its not really good for business.

On 4/01/2018 10:34 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I did read the article, yes. However just as with that network bug a few months ago, it had been known about in security circles and was only patched when it became common knowledge.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?


The conspiracy theory makes me wonder if you, Brian, read the article before you expressed the conspiracy hypothesis.  the facts in the article, such as that this affects Linux as well, and that the problem wasn't discovered by Microsoft and that Linux developers are working on a software fix as well, all demolish the conspiracy idea.

Gene
----- Original Message -----


From: Alex Kenny
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 9:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?


While this has existed for the past decade, it has only been discovered recently. We have been "living with it", because, as far as we know no one had discover and exploit it. These patches, while slowing performance slightly and only in some use cases, will fix the problem.




Also, jumping immediately to some conspiracy by Microsoft doesn't make sense. First, as Anthony previously stated, Linux is being patched. Mac OS will also be updated.


Second, this issue affects the kernel, which has nothing to do with whether traditional Win32 or Windows Store apps are running on top of it. Deliberately slowing the kernel to induce people to use Windows Store apps is completely nonsensical.


This patch should only significantly affect use cases doing a lot of work in kernel space. NVDA will likely not be affected by this.


On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:00 AM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

 It just seems odd that we have if you believe all this lived with this for a
 decade and I'd have thought there was now a bit of the shutting the stable
 door when all the horses have gone about trying to retro patch it I
 understand the biggest losers could be the big server companies who might be
 using Intel chipped hardware, and hence need things sorting out.
  So Maybe I should get my claim for a new processor in tomorrow to be in
 time....:-)

 Brian

 bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
 Sent via blueyonder.
 Please address personal email to:-
 briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
 in the display name field.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
 To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
 Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 10:23 AM
 Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed
 for nvda?


 >I do not suspect ulterior motives on Microsoft's part in this case, because
 > the Linux kernel is being patched in just the same way for just the same
 > reason.
 >
 >
 > Antony.
 >
 > On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 11:17:37, Brian's Mail list account via
 > Groups.Io wrote:
 >
 >> Oh really, well, I'm not so sure. It feeds into the mindset that says
 >> Microsofts eventual aim is to lock people in to getting software from its
 >> store and nowhere else in the 'interests' of security, when in reality
 >> they
 >> want to do what Apple is doing, create an ecosystem and make it hard for
 >> third parties to just allow their software to run on a system.
 >>  Whether you suspect ulterior motives or not is your choice.
 >>
 >> Brian
 >>
 >> ----- Original Message -----
 >> From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
 >> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
 >> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 10:03 AM
 >> Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact
 >> speed
 >> for nvda?
 >>
 >> >A large number of security flaws (in both software and hardware) do not
 >> >get discovered for a long time after they crept into the design.
 >> >
 >> > I think "if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade, I'm
 >> > not
 >> > so sure its that much of an issue" is a dangerous assumption, and not
 >> > borne out by Microsoft's sudden activity to patch Windows in such a way
 >> > that it will have a definite performance penalty. If the 10-year old
 >> > security flaw were not much of a problem, Microsoft wouldn't react in a
 >> > way
 >> > that unavoidably impacts the majority of Windows users.
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > Antony.
 >> >
 >> > On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 10:52:15, Brian's Mail list account via
 >> >
 >> > Groups.Io wrote:
 >> >> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/
 >> >>
 >> >> I hope that link works, but its easy to find on that site in any case.
 >> >> I'm not saying this sounds like paranoia, as I do not know enough to
 >> >> make
 >> >> such a comment, but if the security hole has been in the chips for a
 >> >> decade, I'm not so sure its that much of an issue. at any rate I guess
 >> >> all those out there with AMD chips will be chortling loudly.
 >> >>
 >> >>  If its a fault in the chip this seems that it could leave Intel open
 >> >> to
 >> >>  action to give everyone new chips!
 >> >>
 >> >>  Brian
 >
 > --
 > When you find yourself arguing with an idiot,
 > you should first of all make sure that the other person isn't doing the
 > same
 > thing.
 >
 >                                                   Please reply to the
 > list;
 > please *don't* CC
 > me.
 >
 >
 >








.


Re: Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

 

Hmmph, maybe they will, maybe they won't.

They will anyway, so far I havn'

't had issues in standard mode though on a couple systems as well as the update, where the machine didn't need a lot of network related services, I have removed a lot of extra packages including the multipoint servers, all server including iis webcore, all vertual machine support and a few other things like message cue.

Not sure if in the long run I will get bitten in the ass for removing it but the system had already got slow, including with office, I have even removed the google drive plugin, for office as excell seemed to be crashing.

Both units are low usage but to be honest, you almost have to take things you had off just to have things work now.

I pitty server users.

I can probably get buy with my usb mainly.

As for new chips, every system from first gen to 8th gen has issues, a lot of the older chips most 4th gen up could get patched certainly 5th-8th will have firmware patches if not allready.

On 4/01/2018 10:32 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
That is not what I meant. Its  more likely that when a new chip is out people will use it as a selling point to drive people into buying a new system... again...
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Kenny" <alexkenny08@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?


While this has existed for the past decade, it has only been discovered
recently. We have been "living with it", because, as far as we know no one
had discover and exploit it. These patches, while slowing performance
slightly and only in some use cases, will fix the problem.


Also, jumping immediately to some conspiracy by Microsoft doesn't make
sense. First, as Anthony previously stated, Linux is being patched. Mac OS
will also be updated.

Second, this issue affects the kernel, which has nothing to do with whether
traditional Win32 or Windows Store apps are running on top of it.
Deliberately slowing the kernel to induce people to use Windows Store apps
is completely nonsensical.

This patch should only significantly affect use cases doing a lot of work
in kernel space. NVDA will likely not be affected by this.

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:00 AM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

It just seems odd that we have if you believe all this lived with this for
a
decade and I'd have thought there was now a bit of the shutting the stable
door when all the horses have gone about trying to retro patch it I
understand the biggest losers could be the big server companies who might
be
using Intel chipped hardware, and hence need things sorting out.
 So Maybe I should get my claim for a new processor in tomorrow to be in
time....:-)

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed
for nvda?


I do not suspect ulterior motives on Microsoft's part in this case,
because
the Linux kernel is being patched in just the same way for just
the > same
reason.


Antony.

On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 11:17:37, Brian's Mail list
account via
Groups.Io wrote:

Oh really, well, I'm not so sure. It feeds into the mindset that
says
Microsofts eventual aim is to lock people in to getting software
from
its
store and nowhere else in the 'interests' of security, when in
reality
they
want to do what Apple is doing, create an ecosystem and make it
hard >> for
third parties to just allow their software to run on a system.
  Whether you suspect ulterior motives or not is your choice.

Brian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips
impact
speed
for nvda?

A large number of security flaws (in both software and hardware)
do >> >not
get discovered for a long time after they crept into the design.

I think "if the security hole has been in the chips for a
decade, >> > I'm
not
so sure its that much of an issue" is a dangerous assumption,
and >> > not
borne out by Microsoft's sudden activity to patch Windows in
such a
way
that it will have a definite performance penalty.  If the
10-year >> > old
security flaw were not much of a problem, Microsoft wouldn't
react >> > in
a
way
that unavoidably impacts the majority of Windows users.


Antony.

On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 10:52:15, Brian's Mail list
account
via

Groups.Io wrote:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

I hope that link works, but its easy to find on that site in any
case.
I'm not saying this sounds like paranoia, as I do not know
enough >> >> to
make
such a comment, but if the security hole has been in the chips
for >> >> a
decade, I'm not so sure its that much of an issue. at any rate I
guess
all those out there with AMD chips will be chortling loudly.

  If its a fault in the chip this seems that it could leave
Intel >> >> open
to
  action to give everyone new chips!

  Brian
--
When you find yourself arguing with an idiot,
you should first of all make sure that the other person isn't
doing the
same
thing.

                                                   Please reply to the
list;
please *don't* > CC
me.







.


Snapshot: package nvda for windows store.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

OK there have been threads on this previously, but it could be just me being completely thick here, but I'm still struggling to figure out what the usage of this is, given how much of nvdas functionality is removed to allow it to pass the tests to be carried there as Joseph said, no add ons and this presumably means no third party synths other than Microsofts and espeak.

AS I say, my main issue with this is that to anyone new, this appin the store might seem a bit pointless, since any functions for other software access would need to be built in, rather than be an add on.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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Re: Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

How would you know what level processor you have in a given machine? Obviously it tells you you have four cores etc in my I5, but there are different issues to these chips.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?


Well You can apply the patch manually if you know how.

Any gen4 processer and higher should in theory be impacted less but still.

For me, with things, say a game on first start, there will be some lag, a couple seconds or so, nvda is not effected, obviously as the patch gets adjusted things will continue to evolve.

Servers and low grade processers may be the ones with issues, I have an genuine x86 first gen i3 here and that I admit could have issues.

On one of my win10 systems I have I have noticed that things like transfering files, and other things are more jerky and pronounced, I have not tried with skype but you may just have to wait just that tincy bit longer for things to start, there is a noticable lag when things start.

Ofcause it goes without saying that for the newer systems especially those under support, that bios updates to chip firmwars will probably mitigate this even more.

Aparently they knew as early as december, and one of the hps I have has a system upgrade.

For those on win7 and up search for windows 7 or 8 update history, for those on win10 hit learn more from windows update then the catalog to get that update after you click on the top article.

If you feel comfortable with this then I would strongly recomend you get this if you can.

Why?

The net is going to struggle with a world wide release I am patching all my systems because I can.

Once you have the patches for everything you need put them on a flash drive and update the systems.

Interestingly, win10 has a full cu, win7 and so on have a security only update.

This does suggest though that this rushed patch will be improved as things come on stream.




On 4/01/2018 8:18 p.m., Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
The slow down has to do with kernel mitigations to work around this problem.
Technical: as I noted on another forum (can get very geeky in the end but please bare with me):
One way to speed up programs is doing things beforehand. On hardware, this is called "speculative execution". Basically, computer programs can perform tasks based on a condition (or a set of them). When a program comes across a fork, it can walk down a path based on the condition it is looking for (usually prefixed with the word "if"). Processors can take advantage of this and say, "oh, let me walk down a random path that can lead me to a jackpot so I don't have to come here again." If the processor gambled right, it leads to huge performance boost, because the program can traverse this path without giving a second thought. But what if the chosen path leads to thorn bushes? The process will then say, "oops, I was wrong, so let me retrace my steps and wait for my guest (program) to show me where to go next."
Under some circumstances, when the processor executes the "wrong" path (although it'll think it was right then), the processor will gather the things needed to travel this path. They include next set of instructions and data needed to carry out what it thinks is the "best" match. The thing is, the only thing the processor can understand is 1's and 0's, so it won't care what it will meet down the road, or the fact that it can leak sensitive information (that's the high-level overview of the vulnerability disclosed by Google). In a nutshell, now the processor will be told by its boss (operating system kernel) that it needs to carry some protective gear when traversing conditional paths in order to make sure the processor won't leak sensitive information again (if possible, but it won't work 100 percent of the time), hence the potential performance degradation in some situations.
As for this affecting NVDA's performance, it could, but we won't know the full extent until next week at the earliest once everyone gets the patch.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

Well its for all oses, linux macs maybe even amd cpus, its huge.

We say a 30% slowdown but then no one knows what that means.

Suggestions with games on linux and a few other things running in it suggest that we won't see a problem.

Cloud systems will probably slow down a bit on initial patch.

And every manufacturer is different.

Windows will have a patch next week, mac allready has one about to go, everyone will follow suit from phones to whatnot.

And its not all of a sudden, we are hearing it from the manufacturers now because they are almost ready for this thing to go.

Its complex as hell, but basically the kernal chip has a memmory leak that means people could read data.

Memmory leaks will be fixed going forward but there needs to be a patch reguardless even if the firmwares and such on various chips are patched, most will be if you have a modern pc, I don't though and so for most of us it will be the os alone.

As for slowing nvda down, we can run on slow boxes, I just pitty everything from games to jaws, but then no one knows information is being gleened from articles and such, And we can't do much about it, releases will be done next week and they will be on top of it, theuy have to.

As for it taking 10 years, you do wander, but then let me remind you of the issues with routers, attached storage boxes, and ssl.

Maybe someone saw that coming but maybe they didn't.




On 3/01/2018 11:03 p.m., Antony Stone wrote:
A large number of security flaws (in both software and hardware) do
not get discovered for a long time after they crept into the design.

I think "if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade, I'm
not so sure its that much of an issue" is a dangerous assumption, and
not borne out by Microsoft's sudden activity to patch Windows in such
a way that it will have a definite performance penalty. If the
10-year old security flaw were not much of a problem, Microsoft
wouldn't react in a way that unavoidably impacts the majority of Windows users.


Antony.

On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 10:52:15, Brian's Mail list account
via Groups.Io wrote:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

I hope that link works, but its easy to find on that site in any
case. I'm not saying this sounds like paranoia, as I do not know
enough to make such a comment, but if the security hole has been in
the chips for a decade, I'm not so sure its that much of an issue. at
any rate I guess all those out there with AMD chips will be chortling loudly.
If its a fault in the chip this seems that it could leave Intel
open to action to give everyone new chips!
Brian






Re: Make NVDA speak certain character

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Have a look at the punctuation dialogue in nvdas preferences. I just made this read it as dashc, and I'd imagine if you can live with minus instead of dash you could make it say that.
The key is the punctuationlevel setting here, some will normally allow it to be spoken when cursoring down or up a line of code. one needs to be a little carful though as minus also exists in the table. Try playing with it on a portable version before you commit to it in the installed one.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Edhoari Setiyoso" <edhoari.s@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Make NVDA speak certain character


FYI

I'm using latest NVDA 2017.4 on Windows 10 x64 (I doubt OS version has anything to do with this).

To summarize, I want to know how to make NVDA do not skip certain character while reading a line.

a = b - c

I only hear "a equals b c" from equation above. While it should be "a equals b minus c".

Best Regards

Edhoari Setiyoso
edhoari <dot> s [at] gmail <dot> com

On 04-Jan-18 1:54 PM, Edhoari Setiyoso wrote:
Hi,

It's me again :) I still trying to get used with NVDA and could youe some help

I review a code with Visual Studio Code and can't get NVDA to spell the "-" operator when I press numpad 8 or up/down arrow keys. Therefore I have to traverse per character to hear if thera re any dash character in certain line. Tried with Notepas++ with same result.

It's a arithmetic operator and important for me to have it read correctly.

Any help would be appreciated

Best Regards


Re: Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I'd imagine this is the very confusing differences between multithreading, Multi cores and multi tasking.
My core is not multithreaded, so if that is the case, and its a 32 bit app, one supposes it uses a core and stays there with its own memory map etc, but 64 bit processes can share so this might be an issue as well, since in your example it would need to read the command its going to execute at the same time to make sure no parameters are needed from not yet done bits of calculations running elsewhere, if there are these provisos then its not going to be able to do that command obviously.
However my reading of the bug was that despite it pulling back and not doing the calc, it does store lots of data to make that operation faster even it does need to do it and as it may or may not be that core then that has to be able to be seen by the overall system, breaking the 'secret' hidden parts of a process in the way it allows this.
I'd suggest UIA will be the loser, so more sluggish explorer windows and that sort of thing.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?


Hi,
The slow down has to do with kernel mitigations to work around this problem.
Technical: as I noted on another forum (can get very geeky in the end but please bare with me):
One way to speed up programs is doing things beforehand. On hardware, this is called "speculative execution". Basically, computer programs can perform tasks based on a condition (or a set of them). When a program comes across a fork, it can walk down a path based on the condition it is looking for (usually prefixed with the word "if"). Processors can take advantage of this and say, "oh, let me walk down a random path that can lead me to a jackpot so I don't have to come here again." If the processor gambled right, it leads to huge performance boost, because the program can traverse this path without giving a second thought. But what if the chosen path leads to thorn bushes? The process will then say, "oops, I was wrong, so let me retrace my steps and wait for my guest (program) to show me where to go next."
Under some circumstances, when the processor executes the "wrong" path (although it'll think it was right then), the processor will gather the things needed to travel this path. They include next set of instructions and data needed to carry out what it thinks is the "best" match. The thing is, the only thing the processor can understand is 1's and 0's, so it won't care what it will meet down the road, or the fact that it can leak sensitive information (that's the high-level overview of the vulnerability disclosed by Google). In a nutshell, now the processor will be told by its boss (operating system kernel) that it needs to carry some protective gear when traversing conditional paths in order to make sure the processor won't leak sensitive information again (if possible, but it won't work 100 percent of the time), hence the potential performance degradation in some situations.
As for this affecting NVDA's performance, it could, but we won't know the full extent until next week at the earliest once everyone gets the patch.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

Well its for all oses, linux macs maybe even amd cpus, its huge.

We say a 30% slowdown but then no one knows what that means.

Suggestions with games on linux and a few other things running in it suggest that we won't see a problem.

Cloud systems will probably slow down a bit on initial patch.

And every manufacturer is different.

Windows will have a patch next week, mac allready has one about to go, everyone will follow suit from phones to whatnot.

And its not all of a sudden, we are hearing it from the manufacturers now because they are almost ready for this thing to go.

Its complex as hell, but basically the kernal chip has a memmory leak that means people could read data.

Memmory leaks will be fixed going forward but there needs to be a patch reguardless even if the firmwares and such on various chips are patched, most will be if you have a modern pc, I don't though and so for most of us it will be the os alone.

As for slowing nvda down, we can run on slow boxes, I just pitty everything from games to jaws, but then no one knows information is being gleened from articles and such, And we can't do much about it, releases will be done next week and they will be on top of it, theuy have to.

As for it taking 10 years, you do wander, but then let me remind you of the issues with routers, attached storage boxes, and ssl.

Maybe someone saw that coming but maybe they didn't.




On 3/01/2018 11:03 p.m., Antony Stone wrote:
A large number of security flaws (in both software and hardware) do
not get discovered for a long time after they crept into the design.

I think "if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade, I'm
not so sure its that much of an issue" is a dangerous assumption, and
not borne out by Microsoft's sudden activity to patch Windows in such
a way that it will have a definite performance penalty. If the
10-year old security flaw were not much of a problem, Microsoft
wouldn't react in a way that unavoidably impacts the majority of Windows users.


Antony.

On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 10:52:15, Brian's Mail list account
via Groups.Io wrote:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

I hope that link works, but its easy to find on that site in any
case. I'm not saying this sounds like paranoia, as I do not know
enough to make such a comment, but if the security hole has been in
the chips for a decade, I'm not so sure its that much of an issue. at
any rate I guess all those out there with AMD chips will be chortling loudly.
If its a fault in the chip this seems that it could leave Intel
open to action to give everyone new chips!
Brian


Re: Latest Firefox is extremely slow

Edhoari Setiyoso
 

Not sure shich one is version 52 ESR. I did try version 52 en-US and it throws warning that it needs to disable accessibility to increase stability.

Then I installed version 53 and it's OK.

Edhoari Setiyoso
edhoari <dot> s [at] gmail <dot> com

On 04-Jan-18 4:41 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Incidentally 57 latest still completely fails in my windows 7, so I'm back on 52 esr. Maybe by the time they get to version 60 ythey might get it torun on windows 7. Ahem.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 6:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Latest Firefox is extremely slow


Hi Group,


I have the latest 57 version, I think its 5 or 6 as in 57.005 or 57.006 and I don't see this sluggishness.



On 1/4/2018 12:47 AM, Lino Morales wrote:
Yes. Run the version 52 ESR or simply wait till V 58 comes out. Download 58 beta build 13 also if you'd like. That's what I'm running now. Its not as slow as V577.3.


On 1/4/2018 12:34 AM, Edhoari Setiyoso wrote:
Hi All,

I tried Firefox for couple of weeks now and it feels so sluggish. I think it began with Firefox Quantum, Unfortunately the solution that I found in the mozilla forum is to prevent access for accessibility, effectively rendering it useless with NVDA. Does anyone here has another solution?

Best Regards


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"





Re: Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes that was my whole point really. It all a bit late. Who knows how long the security authorities have been using these vulnerabilities. The point I made some time ago is that there is never ever going to be anything that is totally secure, no matter what you do, and its realising this and not getting paranoid that is at issue a lot of the time
The main vulnerability these days is the internet of things, which give entry points to systems that are going to be hard to plug.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?


Well its for all oses, linux macs maybe even amd cpus, its huge.

We say a 30% slowdown but then no one knows what that means.

Suggestions with games on linux and a few other things running in it suggest that we won't see a problem.

Cloud systems will probably slow down a bit on initial patch.

And every manufacturer is different.

Windows will have a patch next week, mac allready has one about to go, everyone will follow suit from phones to whatnot.

And its not all of a sudden, we are hearing it from the manufacturers now because they are almost ready for this thing to go.

Its complex as hell, but basically the kernal chip has a memmory leak that means people could read data.

Memmory leaks will be fixed going forward but there needs to be a patch reguardless even if the firmwares and such on various chips are patched, most will be if you have a modern pc, I don't though and so for most of us it will be the os alone.

As for slowing nvda down, we can run on slow boxes, I just pitty everything from games to jaws, but then no one knows information is being gleened from articles and such, And we can't do much about it, releases will be done next week and they will be on top of it, theuy have to.

As for it taking 10 years, you do wander, but then let me remind you of the issues with routers, attached storage boxes, and ssl.

Maybe someone saw that coming but maybe they didn't.




On 3/01/2018 11:03 p.m., Antony Stone wrote:
A large number of security flaws (in both software and hardware) do not get
discovered for a long time after they crept into the design.

I think "if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade, I'm not so
sure its that much of an issue" is a dangerous assumption, and not borne out
by Microsoft's sudden activity to patch Windows in such a way that it will
have a definite performance penalty. If the 10-year old security flaw were not
much of a problem, Microsoft wouldn't react in a way that unavoidably impacts
the majority of Windows users.


Antony.

On Wednesday 03 January 2018 at 10:52:15, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

I hope that link works, but its easy to find on that site in any case. I'm
not saying this sounds like paranoia, as I do not know enough to make such
a comment, but if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade,
I'm not so sure its that much of an issue. at any rate I guess all those
out there with AMD chips will be chortling loudly.
If its a fault in the chip this seems that it could leave Intel open to
action to give everyone new chips!
Brian